Are roll batteries the same? Yeah. That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that?
No, just him.
Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, GOATs only trust GOATs because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracel.
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Now, on with the show. This is the Rich Eisen Show. What was that? The Rich Eisen Show. With guest host, Tom Pellisero.
Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Today's guest, NFLPA Executive Director JC Treddor. U.S. men's national team legend, Demarcus Beasley. Senior Writer for the Athletic, John Krasinski.
And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Tom Pellisero. Welcome to a Rich Eisenless edition of The Rich Eisen Show. Tom Pillisero, pleased to be back for another day with my boys in the studio, TJ Jefferson. A little slow on the What up, Tom? Hey, he doesn't have the video going.
He doesn't have the mic on. He didn't do this yet. He reversed the order just to see how he'd handle it. Not well. And now we know.
Well, we have an order we usually go in. And when you, you know, you sway from that, we normally go clockwise because that's how most of us are. I wasn't ready. I'm going to be honest. I usually stay ready, so I don't have to get ready.
I was not ready. I just consider us in the southern hemisphere today. We are swirling this way. Jason Feller's here. Chris Brockman's here.
Here you go. What up, baby? We got tons to get into here. We are one month from today. 30 days, yeah.
One month from today, the Rams and 49ers report to training camp. How many days is that, though, Tom? That is 30 days away. Are you sure? It's not 29.
Go back. 30 days away. We'll talk plenty of NFL throughout the course of the show. JC Treader coming up in just a few minutes. A lot of things to discuss in terms of immediate issues as well as long-term future of the NFL from the union's perspective.
DeMarcus Beasley, as well. USA versus Turk t turkey? Turkey A. Turkey. Turkey A.
Turkey A. Yep. Tonight? Did you go to Turkey A recently, Tom? I had some turkey A on Thanksgiving.
That's why they changed it, you know. They asked the United Nations, we don't want to be associated with the bird. Or, like the dictionary definition of something that fails. Really?
So, I say if they lose tonight against a U.S. team sitting most of their big players and all the guys on yellow cards, they have to go back to Turkey. They can get hair. I was making a hair joke. I don't know if you've been recently.
You haven't been to either. Yeah, I haven't. If you're telling me, yeah, I haven't. We got to start out, though. The NBA draft is over, but the bombs are still coming here.
In the NBA. Lamello Ball. Is a Minnesota Timberwolf. This is a Blockbuster to say the least, when you look at the number of things that are in this trade. You've got Lamella Ball, as well as Josh Green, which is...
The Josh Green era in Minnesota may be relatively brief. Going to. The Charlotte Hornets. Nas Reed is in the deal. We'll unpack that a little bit, especially after the Julius Randle trade.
The guy who everyone expected, all right, Nas finally gets to start for the Timberwolves. No, he now can start for the Hornets. You've got an unprotected first-round pick seven years from now. 2033. You've got three first-round pick swaps in the 28, 29, and 30 drafts, and then three future.
Second round picks. Let's start out on the Minnesota. End of this. What you're getting in the mellow ball when he's healthy. Which the injuries have clearly been a huge part of the story, especially over the past three years, even last year, when at times Lamello is playing limited minutes or coming off the bench because they're just trying to keep him on the court.
When he's out there, he is. One of the NBA's best creators, passers. He is a plus scorer, 20 points a game. He's a plus defender. If you look at the advanced stats, And he's 24.
He slots in from the same draft class as Anthony Edwards now, the number one and number three picks. Teaming up. In a Timberwolves backcourt that. let's remember, already had a lot of players in it. Dante DiVicenzo, probably not going to play this season coming off the Torn Achilles, but they just did a deal to keep Io DeSumu.
Uh in that backcourt. They've had sort of, let's call it an obsession with 6'2 guards in Minnesota. They've kind of been collecting them, but this is a pure. point guard And I would say, if you want to buy into this, and again, we'll get to the front court part of this in a second. If you want to buy in, I would go back.
for the Timberwolves to Various stretches in the playoffs, entire games, entire halves. where the offense was so stagnant. And one of the frustrating things, if you watch enough of the Timberwolves over the years, is they have a guy who. Where where does Anthony Edwards fall in your Top players in the NBA. I would say safely top 10.
Oh, that's easy. And then quite possibly top five. Safely top 10. Make your argument within the 10 short. And there are way too many times.
Where the offense seems to come to a halt. He gets doubled a ton, but it's either Ant is just taking the double and other guys are creating one-on-one. There's nobody creating space for Anthony Edwards. And there are whole halves where it'll go by and he'll score two points, he'll take one shot, and it's kind of the answer has been: well, he's doubled. Let's throw a bunch of alley oops to Rudy Gobert and hope for the best.
Let's let Bones Highland go one-on-one against somebody and just try to create. And Ant, yes, he's taken up two defenders, but if you don't have that balance, you need Ant to take over. And he's capable of it. And we've seen it against the best opponents. We've seen it in the playoffs.
And again, the maddening thing about watching the Timberwolves, even as they've been going to the Western Conference finals, go into the second round this year, is then there'll just be stretches and you're going, where is Ant? He was hurt this year. There's no doubt about that. Both his knees were injured. He missed the end of the first-round series.
He really wasn't healthy. He was coming off the bench early against the Spurs. But still, you'd like to think. that at times you're going to create an actual look for him. Yes, the best players have to be able to create even when they're getting double.
But you'd like to think somebody's going to be able to help you do that. With Lamello and the passing ability. This has that opportunity. What the Timberwolves need LaMello Ball to be is an elevator. They needed somebody who's going to bring up the level of everybody.
And not necessarily bringing up the level of Anthony Edwards, but bringing out the best in Anthony Edwards. Julius Randall. After the trade deadline last year. was a flat out negative asset. through the entire thing.
And there were times where he was banged up, but he was bad. He had bad stretches of basketball last season. Rudy, as a defender, We go back to the series against Denver and the number of times that he basically exposed the kryptonite of Nikola Jokic, which is when Jokic gets you 20 feet from the basket and is doing that high dribble like this. Rudy's arms are longer. He could just slap the ball away.
Rudy is a plus defender and he changes things around the rim. But he doesn't help you on offense. There's only one thing you can do with Rudy, which is throw him alley oops, and even that doesn't work a lot of the time.
So he's not elevating the offense. Jaden McDaniel's another guy who kind of comes and goes in stretches. For the Timberwolves, when they first re-envisioned this a few years ago and made the Rudy Gobert trade, at that time Cat is still on the Timberwolves. And essentially, their answer to what seemed to be an emerging Nuggets team that was going to be the team you were going to have to deal with was: we need to have this Twin Towers front court. We need to have big dudes physically dominate you, keep you away from the rim, match up well with size.
Well now, of course, Kat gets traded to the Knicks. For Julius Randle and Dante DiVicenzo. Katz now got a ring. Dante's out for next season. And Julius Randle was shipped off in a cash dump slash gaining a trade exception.
Bucket of balls. You now have Nas Reed, who again was the best sixth man in the NBA. And also was ready to step in. I mean, he was a shooter, he was the one consistent offensive player they had. Especially in the postseason.
Now you shift him off.
So you raise a lot of questions. About with Rudy, who again offensively is not a plus player in any way. Who's going to even play alongside him? Who else is in your front court? They got the young guy, I'm going to butcher his name, Johan Berenger, I believe it is.
Good job. Not to be confused with 1980s Twins Reliever Juan Berenguer. Similar spelling, different pronunciation. Is he stepping in on a playoff-ready team? It makes me think there's one more move here still coming for the Timberwolves where they have to fortify the front court.
Rather than simply trying to win with a perimeter unit like they have. Then you have the factor of Nas Reid, who by the way, Celebrity in Minnesota. I don't know that people understand. Weren't people getting Nasreed tattoos? There was the first time they made the playoff run, there was a guy who was giving out free Nasreed tattoos.
So there are literally hundreds of Minnesotans with Nasreed tattoos. People have Nasreed flags. There are Nasreed billboards. I love that. The crowd chants Nasreed.
He didn't start, and he's that guy. I love it.
So, from that regard, the Hornets are bringing in a guy who's a culture player. He's a big man. He can play the four, he can play the five, and he can also shoot, especially from the corners. He is deadly from the corners. But they also if you look at the structure of this deal And if I want to be skeptical about this, if I'm a Tim Rules fan, I am wondering about.
Why the Hornets, after being one play-in loss away from breaking a decade-long playoff draw? are trading away A pretty unique player. Who's 20 points and seven assists and highly efficient on both ends of the floor at this stage? And in turn, You're also getting a deal that has three pick swaps, and some of these, from what I've read, are a little bit complicated, but at its core. The pick swaps are worthless.
If the Timberwolves aren't worse than the Hornets, you only gain from a pick swap if you're swapping into a better slot. Obviously, the lottery and other things, but you're only gaining from that if the pick is worse.
So what you have here is the hornets. that seem to be executing a Trojan horse of sorts here. Betting that Lamello is going to go is not going to elevate the Timberwolves and get him to the NBA Finals, which they want to do, but is actually going to cause them to regress further. to the point that they'll end up with a better pick in twenty eight. And again, in twenty nine and thirty, there's some other things involved here.
Not to mention that first round pick seven years down the road, which these things always blow my mind. But you have a real bet here that On the Hornets' behalf, that trading their best player to the Timberwolves will not improve. Minnesota.
Now We also know there have been reports today. that the Timberwolves also called. on a certain player in Boston. Hmm. That Uh at this time, the Celtics continue.
The shop jail in Brown. John Krasinski from The Athletic, among those who are reporting that the Tim Rolls had those discussions about Brown. It really turns the attention of the league now. To What happens with Jalen Brown? The price is going to be higher.
I think that's fair to say that it is on Lamello Ball, just based on the injury history. The type of scorer that Brown is. You said yesterday you thought there's still a chance. You're buying into Brad Stevens, talking about the value. You think there's a realistic possibility he stays in Boston.
Based on the reporting Brockman in the past twenty four hours, Where do you say your percent chance?
Well let's do this, since it's a what more likely uh Thursday here. What's more likely, Jalen Brown is on the Celtics. Game one of the 2026-27 season, or he is playing elsewhere. Yeah. Uh What what what was the deal for Lomello?
So it was Nas Reed and a ton of picks. First-round pick, seven years from now, some pick swaps, and some second-rounders.
Okay, so if the Boston is Needs to stay among the top of the east, so they need players back. Who can offer a package? You know, where you're getting a top 10 player in return. I guarantee that Boston was like, Oh, you want Jalen Brown? You got to send us Anthony Edwards.
And then the phone went, Hello? Are you still there?
So. Game one in Boston. I disagree. I I Reading into it. Even hearing how Brad Stevens formed his answers about Jalen Brown after night one of the draft.
I still get every sense this is we are trying. To Save whatever value we still have in a player who it's pretty apparent around the league. That is in a complicated situation. We had Vince Goodwill on yesterday. Are they taking calls, or are they taking calls?
Because, as you know, Tom, there's a difference. You don't need to make calls when you've got the asset that people want. But when you're getting those calls, it doesn't mean that people are going to give you the package that you want. The Raiders never had to make a call on Max Crosby, who ultimately ended up back with the Raiders. They got a ton of calls and they brought it to a head.
It's the same thing that happened with Miles Garrett. Teams, whether regardless of sport, if you've got the asset everyone wants, you don't have to shop. The guy. At some point, you go, all right, here's our two best offers. In the case of Giannis, all right.
Miami's offering this package of role players and picks. Celtics are offering two ones plus Jalen Brown. We're going to bring it to a head. Is this your best offer?
Okay, now we make a decision. But prior to that, these levels of deals are usually initiated by people calling you. Uh the there's a few teams. That have been very quiet.
So far in this offseason, relative to what We anticipate them doing. And I am, listen, I am an NFL insider. I am happy to give you all the NFL insides. My NBA insider dumb, slightly more limited, but I would point one team out. The reporting Several weeks ago.
After the Nuggets were knocked out of the playoffs, if your name's not Nicole Jokic, you're available.
So far Denver has been really, really quiet. They have some assets on that team. That you would think? Again, maybe not high assets. You're probably having to use picks as well.
But could the Nuggets make a run? And a guy like Jalen Brown. They've got sufficient flexibility. They've made abundantly clear they want to rebuild this thing, re-envision how they're going to win. around one of the most efficient players in the NBA.
Albeit a guy who Rudy Gobert exposed to a great degree in the first round of this year's playoffs, you need to make a lot of changes. Could Denver make a run at Jalen Brown? I'm cool with it. Food for thought. We'll get some more food for thought coming up on the other side of this break.
John Krzezynski is going to be on in the last hour of the show. We'll talk tons more about the Lamello Ball Trade, all things NBA. But after this, the NFL Players Association Executive Director JC Treder is going to join us on the show. We've got Grass Fields in the World Cup. We've got the NFL clamoring for 18 games.
We've got so much to discuss with JC. He'll be here right after this. Tom Pellicero in for Rich. Save $2 when you buy two cans of Superior Products Coverall Tire Dressing. Plus, receive four times O Rewards points now at O'Reilly Auto Parts.
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Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Rich Eisen here. You can always tell when something big is happening in a city. I know what it's like when I'm traveling for big games and events.
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Tom Pellicero in for Rich. JC Tredor, NFL Players Association Executive Director on the show. One of them is front and center right now, JC. You know, NFL players, just like the rest of us, even if you don't know what the hell's going on, what offsides is. You're watching the World Cup.
You've got pristine grass on all these NFL fields, even the ones like, what do they call it? Los Angeles Stadium. Los Angeles. Not SoFi, Los Angeles Stadium. New York, New Jersey.
New York Stadium. That normally have artificial turf. What is your impression? How much is that on guys' minds? And how much of it all do you think this moves the needle in terms of something that's already been kind of established as a priority for players moving forward?
Yeah, I think let's start with what the players want. Players have been clear. We've pulled them. 92% of NFL players prefer grass over turf. They're on these surfaces.
They know how their body feels after it. I know there's statistics that the league put out about kind of converging injury rates, but what we're really seeing there is an increase in injury rate on grass. The turf really hasn't gotten much safer. That injury rate has stayed pretty steady. And it's not a great data point to say, hey, good news, grass has gotten less safe.
It's now as impactful as turf. That's not a great winning message to our players.
So what we really want is high-quality grass surfaces.
So it's not just, hey, give us grass. There's plenty of grass that we'd rather not play on. There are instances of fields currently in the league that players don't like that are grass. But what FIFA's done is they've invested in finding a field surface that their players prefer to play on, and they've prioritized making sure it works and making sure that's what their players are on. And that's how you see they kind of roll out.
The green carpet for their players to show up and play on these surfaces. And I think the frustration we hear from our members is that the owners are willing to put that in and pay for that for a bunch of players in a sport that they don't own and they don't employ, but they're unwilling to do the same thing for the players they actually employ. And that's frustrating to watch. And now it becomes a choice because for a while it was not feasible. These are indoor stadiums.
You can't grow grass inside. It's just too hard.
Now here we are. These are indoor stadiums. Grass is being grown, grass is staying alive. And now it's just clear it's a choice, which is more of an economic choice than anything.
So the counterpoint inevitably that the NFL will make, and I'm sure that they have made this in the past, is soccer, it's about how the ball rolls, right? That's why you have to have a grass field. It's much smaller men on a significantly wider field. How would you answer those counterpoints? Yeah, I think one, we should try out these FIFA fields, which I think we're going to.
We're going to get players on them to see how our players want them, right? Like, we wouldn't want to advocate for a field that our players do not like. And that's why we want to make sure we try them out. But then we should also be investing in what is the right specification for a grass field for our players. You are right.
It is a different game. We have different body types playing these two sports and different goals of these two sports. Our game is not built around the rolling of a ball. Um, but we need to make sure we set our guys up. With specifications to make sure the field is of quality.
I don't think we're putting as many resources into that would be beneficial to our guys, but we've shown there is a way to build out a grass field, though it would be different for ours probably. There is a way to do this with grow lights. And there are mechanisms and facilities in place right now that can keep this grass alive or any grass alive indoors that we should be considering looking into.
Some other things that have popped up quite a bit here, including the conspiracy theory that the NFL has not yet set the date for the Super Bowl after the 2027 season because they'll have 18 games and that'll push everything back. Give me the percent chance, JC, that prior to the schedule being out in what would be May of 2027. You have a new collective bargaining agreement. It is 18 games and everything has accelerated here in, what, an 11-month span? I would say extremely unlikely.
I became president during COVID, which I think taught me to really view things in foreseeable chunks of time. As you move too far forward, there's too many variables to deal with. I was elected in March, started April 1st. The first part of my job is make sure I understand what our members want because this is a membership random institution. I will not be able to do that until throughout this season as I go and visit each of these 32 teams.
So there is nothing that could be done until I talk to my guys and make sure I understand what they want and what they're looking for. And then that's also understanding, can I get everybody on the same page in that amount of time, which is. probably a difficult ask as well.
So I think my first step is getting out and talking to all 2,500 members and making sure I understand what they care about and then getting our guys to understand what we should be fighting for. And that's going to come from their feedback. There's going to be a lot of work that goes on by me and the staff and then bringing that to the executive committee and bringing that to the board and making sure they have a say and making sure they understand the trade-offs and what the discussions would be.
So there is a ton of work to be done before a conversation could even start happening, let alone going through an entire collective bargaining process. Those aren't one month discussions. This is a 500 plus page document of clause after clause after clause that would need to be negotiated. That is a very Very heavy lift on that timeline to get anything done.
So, what's a feasible timeline, JC? Before you think, I'm not saying peg a date several years from now. I'm just saying to have real substantive discussions: what's the soonest you think that could occur?
Well, I think it begins of when we'd want something to occur. And right now, what's been clear is the league has listed a bunch of things that they want. They have been adamant. They have been very clear. They do a very good job of messaging what they want.
They want 18 games. They want 16 international games. They want to lower our revenue share. They want to have us help carry the cost of operating their business. They want to cap high earners.
They have been clear, publicly and privately. That is what they want. But overall, that is a long list of bad things for players. That is more work, more travel, less pay, us carrying the cost for billionaire franchises, and then less upside for high earners. That is nothing good for players.
We have an agreement for the next five years.
So I don't even think we're thinking of, well, how fast could we get this done? It's do we want to even have a conversation if that's what's going to be slid across the table to us? And right now we have a deal I think we're happy with and we're okay with and things are operating well under. And what's the motivation to speed up a process? And I don't think we're looking to do that.
In the end, we're going to be judged myself. The staff, the executive committee, the board are going to be judged off the success of whenever we have the next negotiation. And we have to pick our time of when we want to do that based off the conversation that would occur. NFLPA Executive Director JC Treder is our guest, JC.
So you mentioned the owners wanting to potentially cut into the revenue share. You go back to 2011, as you know well, that was sort of a seismic shift in terms of going from a cap credit system to a true revenue sharing system. When we're talking about changing the percentage, which is 48 and change right now for players, is it possible that? In order to accomplish that in a way that makes sense for both sides, we once again re-envision the entire model? Or how what, if anything, is on the table in terms of financially how you end up divvying this thing up?
I think one of the great things about our model is that it's a revenue-sharing business. To the league's credit, to these owners' credit. One thing they are all very, very good at is bringing in revenue. And because we are a revenue sharing model, our players receive the benefit of those deals brought in. I always kind of chuckle when sometimes the league will sign a new big deal and there'll be a comment about like, man, the NFL PA got left out of this.
Like, nope, we get our percentage of all those deals and that's great. And that's what it should be. I could dive into the. deep details of how the revenue share is calculated. I do not want to crush your viewership numbers, Tom.
I do now. I do not want to drive people to a different channel.
So I will not do that to you. I respect you too much to throw you under the bus like that. But in the end, this is important on how we're compensated. Our job as a union is to deal with compensation, work rules, benefits. And you do that by your revenue share.
That starts it as you start chipping away at that or changing it. We want to expand our revenue share. Our players want more, a bigger slice of the pie and a bigger pie as well. That is what our players care about. All right, so let's talk about something that people can actually relate to isn't going to make their brains melt right now.
Good point by you. One month from today, the Rams and 49ers report to training camp because they have a transcontinental flight to Melbourne, which is a 16 or 17 hour time difference from the West Coast. I've heard many stories through the years. It's obviously great for expanding the revenue streams and the things overseas. I've also heard plenty of stories from coaches and players about the various, whether it's a lockdown when you're in South America, whether it's non-working Wi-Fi when you're in Europe, all these different things.
Is this the one with the time difference, the Niners leaving nine days before, that makes us recalibrate? Or do you anticipate this is going to be full steam ahead internationally regardless of how all this thing goes in Australia? Yeah, I think international expansion is obviously something the league's been very passionate about for a long time. But I think making sure the players stay at the forefront of that, making sure they have a voice and they're prioritized in that, making sure they're taken care of both on their way out, how they travel there, what their experience is on the ground in the end. International expansion, these fans overseas are not going to fall in love with the shield.
They're going to fall in love with the players. And that's what we've seen from the other unions and sports that have grown internationally, professional sports, they fall in love with the players.
So making sure the players are treated well and are in a position to help grow this game would be impactful too. And that's the way they travel, where they stay, the facilities they're at, what the travel schedule is, because there's also coming back and then have to play another game. And these guys are tired and worn down and beat up. And there's one thing to kind of go through 60 car accidents on a field and then jump back on a 17-hour flight with the inflammation that comes from it. There's a lot of health and safety stuff to go into it, too, that we need to make sure we're taking a good look at to put the players first as we continue to do this and as the league pushes.
They're up to their limit almost on how many international games they can have, but that's another area they want to keep looking into. A big story over the past several days, or over the past several months, if you've been following on the college football level, Brendan Soursby, who has dealt with a gambling addiction. He went and sought treatment for it. It jeopardized and ultimately cost him his NCAA eligibility. He then won a court injunction, which then ended up triggering the Big 12 and Teams.
A lot of different things happen, JC. Bottom line, he ends up in the NFL supplemental draft pool in terms of filing the petition. The NFL decides on Tuesday, we're just not going to hold a supplemental draft, which, from a legal rationale perspective, plain language of the CBA says if the league chooses to hold a draft. But there's obviously a lot of other aspects to this that I know. His attorney, Jeffrey Kessler, who has a long history with the NFL PA, says is still being examined in conjunction with the union.
Long version of getting to this question, JC: What do you make of the Brennan Sourceby situation and what remedies, if any, could the union pursue here? Yeah, first off, obviously Brennan is not a member of the NFL PA right now. He is going to be in the future. And I think our job, as we've not been involved in these discussions up until this point, is to make sure we do our due diligence and understand.
So over the last couple of days, as that announcement came down, we've been in contact both with his side as well as the NFL to get a sense of what's going on. And then as we get all the information, we've got to make a decision on what. could be possible or what we could do. And there's still more conversations to go.
So I don't have a great update for you now. Those conversations are still ongoing. And we've got to figure out what we can do as an organization moving forward. Generally speaking, anytime that you have, whether it's player discipline, which hasn't been quite as front and center in recent years as it was at other times, there's always the concern that something's going to end up being precedential, that the league is going to overstep and suddenly do something that now is going to be, well, we did there, that in that case, that now applies to all other players. Historically, the PA has challenged those sorts of things.
How much of a concern, again, broadly speaking, not specifically. Specifically on Sourceby is something that, by all accounts, and the NFL would not deny this either, has never happened before. We've never had a case like this. How much more does that intensify, if at all, the scrutiny that you put on that type of a case? Yeah, it's why it's important to make sure we understand everything that's going on.
In the end, our job is to defend the collective bargaining agreement. That is the agreement between the two sides. And though there's language in it, you make sure that you're defending the language and making sure no one's overstepping that.
So that's as you know, that's what we're doing as of now. We are making sure we're reading into everything that possibly could be going on because you don't want bad precedent. You don't want somebody to overstep and you not push back on it. And our job is to make sure we're defending our members and making sure they're in a position to succeed. And we don't allow anything that shouldn't be allowed to go on.
So there's still more time to go into that before we can make a decision. You mentioned earlier, 2,500 players. I think there have been roughly 10 to 12 gambling suspensions of NFL players. It's somewhere in that area. Obviously, Calvin Ridley was a very high-profile one, Jamison Williams.
And the rules have adjusted somewhat over the past several years in terms of penalties being slightly softened for gambling on non-NFL subjects, which NFL players, let's be clear, just so everyone understands, can gamble. You just can't do it in the facility or historically hadn't been able to. And you definitely. can't bet. On games, much less bet on your own team.
So that's a very small percentage, JC, of issues that have popped up at something that is so pervasive in society. I'm curious, just from your perspective as a former player and now being the representative of all the players, how big of a topic is this? How much education is done? And to what do you attribute the fact that we honestly haven't had more types of these situations that could spiral into something bigger? Yeah, a lot of it's education, and I think both sides are motivated on the education standpoint.
In the end, the game we play, the NFL game, is the most popular sport, drives a ton of revenue, which is great for both sides. And you would never want to get in a position where people are questioning the authenticity of the event they're watching. And I think that's really important for both sides. That's why we've been aligned on that, about educating our members on what they can and can't do. And there have been issues in the past, but we want to make sure we put everybody in a position to succeed.
So the league and us have worked on trainings and education and making sure this doesn't become a bigger issue going forward. And everybody understands how this business works and what they're allowed to do and what they're not allowed to do. We don't really want to leave any gray area to that for the guys.
So far, so good. That's something you can't get complacent on. You have to continue to educate and make sure as new guys come in the league, they understand what the rules are as well. 2,500 players, too, in the offseason. In the regular season, it's somewhere like 1,700, 1,800 guys that are a part of the union and active players.
There's also Like, if you were thinking about players and their interests, as you talk about figuring out what guys want, it's like one half of a bell curve. You have this very small number of players that make a ton of money, and then almost everybody else is making the minimum, honestly. If you look across salaries across the league.
So there's not really a other way to ask this, but like, do all votes count equally? In other words, some of your highest profile, highest paid, most powerful guys have a vastly different set of interests than the rank and file. How do you sort through that when you're talking about figuring out what the guys want? Yeah, I think it's important for us to represent every player because, in the end, everybody's vote does count equally. Everybody's vote does get tallied up.
In the end, it's just a total. But in the end, you got to make sure that everybody feels like they got something out of the deal. You never want somebody within your union or within your membership to feel underrepresented or unrepresented.
So even in 2020, we fought hard for minimum salary players and we increased minimum salaries by 20%. And that's great. 60% of our membership is on minimum salaries.
However, you don't want the people who aren't on minimum salaries to look around and say, hold on, that's cool and all, but what did I get out of this? You know, I'm playing another game. I'm going up to 17 games in 2020, but what did I get? And you want to make sure every player understands what's in that deal that's beneficial to them. Because you're right, Patrick Mahomes probably isn't worried about minimum salary.
You know, he probably has other motivations and other issues he cares about. And we got to make sure we're representing him and representing other players like him, that they're feeling like we're representing them well and negotiating on their behalf well. And that comes with having those conversations and making sure I have a conversation with Patrick, making sure I have a conversation with a guy in the practice squad about what is your life like right now? What can we do better? What are you looking for?
And then my job is to go execute that in the bargaining room and bring back things that will make their lives better. 60% is a. It's a wild number. I didn't know the precise percentage here, but that would be, you know, if in any business, 60% of the people were making the minimum wage and you would say, okay, that's a very unique type of a workforce here. Are there things, you know, you raised the minimums in the last CBA, that was substantial.
Are there other things you can do to help those guys? Because I can't imagine the percentage is really going to change. Yes, I think one thing, it was a player idea originally and it has grown in probably one of the most favorable benefits our players see, which is the performance based paypal, which is a formula that drives money to you based off how many snaps you played and your salary.
So, the lower your salary is and the more snaps you play, the higher payout you get. And now we have players almost doubling their salary or beyond doubling their salary in the performance-based pay benefit, which is great for players. And I think players would love to expand that. Every opportunity we get as a union, whether there's a true up on the salary cap or on the revenue, instead of putting it into the salary cap, we try to push as much of that money into performance-based pay because we know we're helping that 60% and a little bit beyond that. Bring back way more money outside of the cap because, in the end, the salary cap is really decided by the general managers and it's driven to the stars and the highest paid players.
If you're a minimum salary player, you don't see any of that salary cap upside. If we keep making the salary cap bigger and bigger, you're a minimum salary player. There is nothing for you there. You are not going to get more of that money. You are a minimum salary player.
But that performance-based paypal is something that every player really appreciates because at the end of the year, you see that, you know, over a million dollars being dumped back to you over doubling your paycheck, which obviously guys are in favor of. And for those not familiar with the performance-based paypole, it's based on how much you play your contributions relative to how much you make. And so, you'll have players making six figures out of that performance-based paypole. And I always laugh when it's like Aaron Rodgers, $38, like down there at the bottom. Like, everybody's got something.
It all factors in somewhere along the line. Just a couple other things, JC, real quick, that I know fans care about. And you mentioned the NFL has put out their wanting 18 games, and that's been a discussion now for. A couple of years. In your mind, I know where the players stand on it.
I know where they stood on going to 17 games, but ultimately, things have a price and there are ways that things can work out. In your mind, is 18 games inevitable on the NFL schedule? No, I wouldn't say so. Our guys have to make a decision on what they want to do. I wouldn't say any player would voluntarily go to 18 games.
I think sometimes I get asked. Hey, how will we know the impact of 17 games? Like, how will we know what that extra game is? We already do. Like, 16 was a lot.
You know, you didn't walk around locker rooms when there was 16 game season. Everybody was like, I feel great. I'd love to play another one. 17 was a big ask, and guys are beaten up. You walk into those locker rooms post-week eight, you go into those training rooms.
It's the walking dead, it's the walking wounded in there. Guys are beat up. Going to another game is a major hit to player safety and player well-being, not just in these individual years, but also long after their career. As now a retired guy, I know how my body feels after playing a ton of NFL football. And that's something we would never just roll over and say, hey, it's inevitable.
That is not something you ever just accept. Our players have to make a decision of what they want.
So far, it's been clear they do not want to play more games. They are playing enough football already.
So we'd never just say that that's inevitable.
Okay.
So last thing then, again, because this is what the fans care the most about, JC, is avoiding work stoppages, avoiding anything that's going. Going to disrupt their ability to consume football now, what, six days a week during the fall, into December, into January, into now Valentine's Day for the Super Bowl here. You're talking about vastly different interests. You're talking about altering the revenue share potentially, is what the NFL, again, wants. The 18 games is a significant type of a leap.
There's potential pushes on whatever factors you identify the players really want here. I know, and there's big questions too about the media deals and the changing media landscape. Do they opt out of that? The players have gotten the largest percentage out of that bucket of the national deals and the media deals for a long time. I know we're projecting this quite a ways out, but what is your level of confidence knowing the history, knowing the knockdown, drag out fight that led to a work stoppage in 2011, knowing how close the vote was in 2020?
What are the chances in your mind that this next deal, whenever it gets done in the next, what, five years until the current CBA is up, gets done without some type of a massive volcanic eruption? Yeah, I think we're still so far away from that. And it's weird how quickly these conversations have started. And it's because the league is interested in doing something. They've been clear about that.
But we are still five years away from this time. That is so much time. That is over a life cycle of a player on average. It's longer than the average career length.
So we are still so far away from a work stoppage, a strike, a lockout that though you're always planning for those scenarios, that's not just something that we're really diving into right now. Just because we are so far into a deal with so much more runway to go before that would ever happen, that I don't think anybody should be concerned because we have five more years of football guaranteed. This is a very long time before something would happen. As much as I enjoy camping out outside of federal courthouses to cover the Litigation related to any variety of matters, JC. Certainly, that would be helpful if you could just accomplish that for me.
JC Treder, thanks a lot, dude. Appreciate you. Thanks, Tom. All right. Fantastic stuff right there from JC and a lot of different issues.
The 18 games thing alone, we'll take a quick break here, but. Listen, it's been talked about as inevitable. Yeah. You literally just heard the guy who is the head of the Player Association saying, no, players don't want it, and nothing's inevitable. Let's dig a little more on that.
We'll get back to the Lamello ball trade. We got tons of NBA news. DeMarcus Beasley coming up soon, too, here on the Rich Eisen Show. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast. Had JC Treder, executive director of the NFL Players Association, on in the last segment.
A ton of insight there. If you're into some of the behind-the-scenes things, they're going to dictate where the game goes from here. That full interview will be up on YouTube in a little bit. Tom Pellicero here, in for Rich. There were a few instructive things in my mind.
Not a firm answer yet on the Brendan Sourceby thing. There's been a lot of back and forth on that. It's a complicated, unique case. But JC acknowledged that anytime you have a potential precedent being set, that's something that concerns the NFL PA.
So let's find out probably in the next, let's call it, 36 hours. I would think by the end of the day, tomorrow, they should have a pretty good idea if they're going to file anything and try to keep this alive for Soursby or if he's going to end up, in all likelihood, working out all year and then going into the 2027 NFL draft, which now has been officially set April 29th to May 1st in Washington, D.C., which should be a very. A unique uh setting. I'm not going to go down the various routes this could go considering it's on the national mall. But let's just say, I think it'll be a beautiful atmosphere to have the NFL draft.
In Washington, D.C. Stay out of the reflecting pool. See, I said I wasn't going to go down all the different paths. Lots of money. I could have gone.
There's. There's fences up now. You can't get into it. Uh. The other part was when I asked him directly, is 18 games an inevitability?
And he said, no, nothing's an inevitability. The players don't want it. They didn't want to go from 16 to 17. They don't want to go from 17 to 18.
So you can sit there and say, well, he has to say that. It's leverage. It's a bargaining chip. And sure. But I think that what you're hearing.
From Tredor, who was previously the NFL PA president. There was obviously a lot of drama over a couple of years with Lloyd Howell in the executive director role. JC then emerged from a field of three finalists this year to take on this role. What I'm hearing him say is. The NFL PA, for the first time since I've been covering the league, wants to be very transparent and very proactive in terms of what they're trying to accomplish.
The NFL has set the guardrails for many years. Whether it was going to 17 games, whether it was we're going to claw back the revenue share, whether it was any number of different issues that they may have had, stadium credits and everything else. In this case, the union, it seems from listening to JC, is really going to target some things. Grassfields might be one of them. And that is a significant investment.
It's clearly not so significant that they wouldn't do it for the World Cup. There are real things. I thought it was interesting that he said they're going to get players to go and get out on these World Cup fields and see how they hold up. Because that's been one of the things the league has said: well, you got these little 180-pound guys, and the field's like 40% wider. You're not just chewing up between the hashes with a bunch of 350-pound men.
All right, so get some guys out there. Yeah, run around on the literal surfaces. And it's only a month, not four or five months. And it well, it's also one game every number of days. Obviously, the World Cup is spread out, but you still have a bunch of games that are being played at, for instance, SoFi.
Or being down, you know, played. Obviously, you already have a grass field in Santa Clara, but how does that field respond? Do they use the exact same type of grass? There's other places he didn't mention any of those fields. We all know, you know, Soldier Field, nobody wants to play on that grass surface.
Pittsburgh, it's the worst thing. Because it gets torn up. Pittsburgh has had people complain about it in recent years, too, because you have Pitt games on Saturday, Steelers game on Sunday. This is going to be a significant issue. We'll see how significant it is because no one's given anything for free.
Neither the NFL or the NFL Pair are just going to, oh, you want that? Cool, you can have that. Everything is up for negotiation. Money rules over everything else. What would you say, T J?
Cash rules everything around me. You know what I mean? Cream. Good. Money.
I got $10 bills, y'all. But there are a lot of other things involved. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Mm-hmm.
