REShow: Daniel Popper - Hour 1

This is The Rich Eisen Show. Let me see you put your hands up now. Now. Now. Now.

Now. The Rich Eisen Show. Rich, love you. Brock, no tufo, whistle, PJ.

My brother from another mother, love you. Live from The Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. This is The Rich Eisen Show. With guest host, Kirk Morrison. Today's guest, senior writer for The Athletic, Daniel Popper. Cleveland Plain dealer, Browns Beat writer, Mary Kay Cabot. Jets writer for The Athletic, Zach Rosenblatt. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Kirk Morrison.

Oh, yeah. Thursday, July 27th, I'm here at Kirk Morrison, filling in for Rich. Excited to be here as always because that's football in the air, I smell.

Yes, indeed. Football's in the air. Joined by my guys, as always, Brock Mendel, tufo, TJ. What's up, fellas? What's up, man? Glad to be back. I'm excited.

I really am. I'm really juiced up because we've kind of gotten through the dog days of summer, right? The dog days of summer for people who follow the NFL. Now, baseball, we know that's the month of August where nobody's actually truly watching baseball. But football is now here. Training camps are opening, are pretty much open all around the National Football League.

The news has been flying in. We've had extensions and we've had guys get record-breaking contracts. We've even got some strays.

When I say strays, some stray shots have been flowing from coaching staffs to prior regimes going on right now. And I'll just talk about Denver in a little bit. But there's just been a lot going on in the National Football League. I'm excited to talk to you guys about it. As always, man, we're going to get to this record-breaking contract Justin Herbert signed.

My guy Daniel Popper will be joining us in a little bit. He covers the Chargers. I want to get into the Browns. Nobody's talking about the Browns. Do you guys realize that we are less than one week away?

What if I say, okay, just one week away. I was going to say less than one week, but one week away from the Hall of Fame game. People always act like, go away with the Hall of Fame game. But trust me, that Hall of Fame game does numbers because it's football. And it's real football. And it's actually names of guys that we may see in the National Football League.

I know a lot of starters don't play, but it's just something about. And I'm so glad that they put the Hall of Fame game now on a Thursday so we can watch the game. And then, you know, watch the celebrations and everybody getting inducted.

You know, Joe Thomas, Darryl Revis are the big headliners because that's why the Jets and the Browns are playing in that game. But talk to Mary Kay Cabot because it's kind of crazy. You remember this time last year? And this is what I like to do. I love doing this. Always take a moment and maybe I should carry a journal, fellas. I need to start really journaling. I feel like that was the one thing that I did not do in my NFL career. I should have kept a journal of just every day writing down my thoughts and moments and really just go back and sit back and read how I was feeling that day, how practice went.

Those are the things I really, really wish I really could have done because I really thought about if last year I was writing those same thoughts and comments. Remember last year, the Cleveland Browns, Deshaun Watson, remember how it was such big news and the stories coming out every single day. Would this dude ever take a snap for the Cleveland Browns? And oh my God, what are they doing? And tell me, what have we heard from the Cleveland Browns camp over the last week, week and a half?

Nothing. We have not heard from the loudest camp in the NFL a year ago to maybe the quietest camp so far in the National Football League. That's kind of crazy how the NFL and its news cycle kind of comes at you year in and year out. So you have that going on. So we talked to Mary Kay Cabot.

I can't wait to talk to that. But right now, I don't know if they're the NFL's darling. The NFL always has a team that everyone kind of buys into and I'll give them props and say, usually you buy into the team who's usually on hard knocks. Well, last year was a little bit difficult because it was the Detroit line and we watched hard knocks and you're more so excited because you kind of felt like, man, this dude Dan Campbell, he's actually a pretty good coach. I kind of like his antics. You know, he's just a dude, you know what I mean?

Biting kneecaps and this is how you got to do it and 10 up downs and all. But it was like, he was old school football and you watched it. Did we truly invest in the Detroit Lions last year?

No. But the way that they finished the season, we were like, wow, that is a great season for a team that we watched. And we saw that team get built right in front of our eyes when hard knocks. The New York Jets right now, if you look at any of your internet search engines, you look at any NFL website, anything that just says football right now, the headline at the top has some sort of league with J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets. And I'm saying, oh, are we going to have Jets fatigue? I'll ask you guys that in a second.

Will we have Jets fatigue? Because I wake up this morning and I'm like, what's cooking at Jets camp? Oh, by the way, what cooking?

No pun intended. Guess who's in for a visit? Dalvin Cook. You know what I mean?

It just doesn't stop. Dalvin Cook now visits the New York Jets, but they've got Breece Hall, but it still adds to the new episodes of hard knocks when they do come out because they're going to have the video of, oh, NFL running back Dalvin Cook has entered the building. He's here for a visit. You already know how the HBO or the Max people are going to make it build it up.

The sprinkler will be going. It's going to be a lot. It's just not a regular day. Visited by free agent running back Dalvin Cook. But this has been like so much fun of watching a team sort of be constructed, a team that last year didn't make the playoffs, had a losing record, and yet they make one move, which is one major move in getting Aaron Rodgers.

And all of a sudden now they are the talk of the National Football League. And then it seems that Aaron Rodgers has says, you know what? I'm going to rip up my contract. I have one hundred million dollars due over the next two years.

And you know what? I'm going to rip it up. I'm going to take a little bit of a pay cut. That's what is being perceived as a pay cut. Now, I think people in NFL circles tell you probably not necessarily a pay cut, but more so a restructuring of a contract to do what? Allow the team to have more flexibility in free agency, in signing more players.

So it's not necessarily a pay cut. If Aaron Rodgers demanded more money, he's probably, trust me, I think he'll get more money. And if he has a season that we all think that he is going to have and the Jets have the season that we think they're going to have with him at quarterback.

I honestly believe he can always go back to the table. But man, this is something I haven't seen this much excitement for a football team in a very long time. Last time I had this sort of excitement, you remember the Philadelphia Eagles and their dream team? Dream team.

The dream team. How'd that season go? It was not good, by the way. Guess what?

We're about to see the same thing with the Jets. Wow. I can't wait for this beautiful disaster to unfold before us. You want this balloon to pop?

You're the balloon popper, huh? Is that what you are at this? The Jets are losers. They've been losers for 50 years. Why is that going to change now?

Because they got an old guy playing quarterback who wasn't healthy last year. Is this? Oh, look how great of a guy I am. I'm going to take less so we can get around. You're still getting $75 million guaranteed.

Right. Guess what? Anybody wins they're going to have in the next two seasons? How many?

Probably less than 20. Wow. Guess what? Are they going to win any playoff games? No. You want to know why?

The Jets don't win playoff games. Wow. You're coming in hot today.

I've had a whole five days' worth of takes just stored up in my body. He's been off for a few days, so he's been, you know, he's... We're talking playoff so what? T.J. just sits over there and lets Rich kind of spew his nonsense for three days without any pushback, so I'm back to be the bad guy. You missed me. By the way, people out there on YouTube, I know you missed me. I'm back. I missed you, Chris.

Thank you, Mike. I love you. You're the best.

You're the best. I missed him. Well, that's completely true, Chris. A few times I did say, what would Brockman say?

And I threw it out. You were channeling me. You were, you know, providing your own commentary. But what I'm saying is, like, we know what we're going to get on Hard Knocks. It's going to be fun. It's going to be cool. You're going to hear the sprinklers and Robert Sala is going to say something witty. And then we're going to... Aaron Rodgers, we're going to spend a day with him and Sauce, and it's going to be fine. And then at the end of it, they're going to miss the playoffs, like every other Hard Knocks game, guys, every single year.

Jets fans are used to disappointment, and this year will be no different. Yeah, sure. Why not?

So is this... I guess it's a pushback, though, in that, Kirk, because I do believe the Jets are going to be good this year. You do? I do.

I absolutely do. T.J.'s on a train. I'm on the train.

You're on the train, really? Yeah. And why is that?

Are you just hyping up? I mean, I got a chance to see this week, what, USA Today released the NFL's win-loss records, and everybody's all up in arms. I'm like, don't you know that people release these to get you mad? It's kind of like children.

You know, you have kids. It's like, if someone says something bad about your kids, you're ready to fight. That's what NFL teams are. The team that you root for, anybody says something good about your team, you're like, oh, see, that guy knows what he's talking about. She's on top of it.

She knows what's going on. But the minute they say something bad about your team, whoa, what the heck does that guy know? Who does he cover?

Who's he writing for? Nobody cares about them. That's the way it is around the National Football League. That's the way it looks like with the Jets right now. No one cared about the Jets. Aaron Rodgers comes in, and guess what? They are now the talk of the National Football League.

We're talking Jets more than the Cowboys, more than Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, the defending champions, right? This is where it's at. I'm not going to jump on board.

I learned this a while ago, fellas. I really do. Later today, I'll be heading over to Arizona. I'm going to go to the Arizona Cardinals. I'm covering Cardinals camp for the next couple of days. You know, football is back. Welcome back, weekend. You've seen all the advertisements for welcome back, NFL.

You'll be seeing all the camps this weekend. But I learned this a long time ago when I first started, when I first retired, and I started to go to training camps and visit with NFL teams. And I remember I walked into a team, I won't say the name, but I walked in, and everybody is so positive.

Everything is, oh my God, we felt like we fixed the things out. We've got depth at running back, and our quarterback is really hitting his stride. We brought in some guys at receiver.

You talk to everyone in that organization, I promise you. I walked out of there and I said, how does this team not go and win the Super Bowl? That team that year won five games.

Won five games. And a colleague of mine, who I'll never forget, he says, don't always believe what you hear. Believe what you see. And I was like, wow, everyone in the NFL can talk a good game, but let them show you. The NFL is a game about, show me, don't tell me, show me. Don't tell, everyone can tell me about how good the Jets are going. Show me, show me that you're different. Show me, just one guy could, last year you could have told me that bringing in Russell Wilson and the Denver Broncos are heading straight to, oh yeah, mark them down.

They're going playoffs. We did believe that. Yeah, but why is that?

Because everyone had told you. But this is an NFL about, this is a league about, show me, don't tell me, show me, show me what you can do. And that's what I'm all about right now when it comes to the Jets. Show me. All right, Kirk, but you know, I know it's training camp footage and you're only getting a small sample size. Right. But I've seen Rodgers and I've seen Wilson working together.

Correct. And you look at that and at least I look at that and go, damn man, like that's special. And I think it's going to be special. And I know it's training camp footage and you might not be going 100 percent. But I'm, you know, you're talking about showing you. I'm just going by what I'm saying here. You do know that there's 100 plays at practice and they showed us one.

Yeah, I know and that's why I pointed it out. They show us the one that they want us to see. They don't show. And this is because I joke around with a lot of teams, social media teams. You know, they're all excited. The productions of NFL teams, because what they do is they get all the tape from the week or the day and they cut it up and they give the fans a couple of little clips.

And you're like, oh, my God, look at that. That's why, you know, cameras aren't allowed after I believe it's individual period in the NFL. So all reporters can come. Everybody gets the video. That's why all the video looks the same, because it's always reporters getting stretching and special teams and a little individual. And then that's it.

Cameras are off. So now it's up to the team's discretion of what they want to show you, what they want the fan base to see. And if I'm a Jets fan, what am I what do I want my fans to see? A completion between Aaron Rodgers and Garrett Wilson. I don't want to see the Aaron Rodgers interception by sauce.

Gardner. Well, some may want to see it because, oh, we got this. But there are also some lowlights, but that's not what you show again. I love the where the hype train has gone. The hype train is real. The hype train is so real.

And yet we sit back and I just want to just show B and I got so long to wait. Like the NFL season isn't we're still well over a month away. We haven't even got the preseason games yet. But yet here we are and we're talking about the Jets again. We're not even talking about the Cowboys. Not talking about the Chiefs.

But another team I think we probably should be talking about. Is it the Chargers? Because Justin Herbert signed what what what is being said now the largest contract in NFL history in terms of average per year for a player.

Yeah, over 60 and we're about fifty two and a half million dollars. That's a lot of money per year for a quarterback. But what does that now mean for the Chargers? Should we be on the Chargers hype train? That's a question I'm going to ask Daniel Popper. He covers the Chargers for the athletic. I'll get his thoughts on this new contract for Justin Herbert and see what's going on down at Chargers training camp when we come back.

Kirk Morrison here filling in for Rich. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Are you currently enjoying the show on the Stitcher app? Then you need to know Stitcher is going away on August 29th. Yep. Going away as in Kaput. Gone. Dead.

Rest in peace Stitcher. And thanks for 15 years of service to the podcast community. So switch to another podcast app and follow this show there.

Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. What happened? The Chargers drafted. No, but I know that's what happened. They didn't.

They didn't. But so they didn't come up and come get you. So I went to so I went on the visit to the Patriots and that's when Charlie Weiss was office coordinator and I go to Boston and I really like to visit. I like Charlie.

I love Charlie Weiss. You meet with Bill. I did meet with Bill.

You know, we sat in his office right above the stadium right there where you looking out at the stadium. And we really just sat there and we really didn't talk about much. We just looked at each other. What do you mean?

What do you mean? You just looked at each other. Like Bill was hurting each other's eyes, you know, I guess. So you're saying it was awkward?

I mean, I just, you know, you know how Bill is. He just there's only a few things he probably wants to know about you. And I guess he was trying to get a sense of, you know, was I passionate about football as most coaches coaches do invest a first round pick on a guy.

You want to make sure they're passionate. Do you think they would have chosen you if you were available? Well, they said they were going to choose me. Charlie Weiss promised me if I was there at sticks because they needed a running back.

They need a running back bad that year. And so, yeah, when the Chargers drafted me, I think they took Richard Seymour. Yeah, but they did work there.

They worked back. Have you ever brought up to Brady when you've seen him? I know I never brought it up. You could have been Robin is bad. I always always thought about, you know, what would that be like? But I'll do respect Antoine Smith. I'll do. Yeah, I know.

I know it would have been a little different. No way. Yeah, I'm kind of getting freaked out. Yeah, welcome back to Rich Eisen Show radio network. I'm sitting at the Rich Eisen Show desk furnished by Grainger with supplies and solutions for every industry. Grainger has the right product for you.

Call click Grainger dot com or just stop by. Well, you know what? You don't get much news at Chargers training camp and all of a sudden you get the biggest news in the NFL over the last couple of days. Yeah, I think it was it was good for me as a reporter to get that contract situated before camp started. So when we got out there to practice where we could really focus on the football and yeah, I mean, there was still some news. I think the one thing I would I would point out is that J.C. Jackson was back and a full participant in practice yesterday.

The opening practice of training camp. Jackson, of course, tore his patellar tendon in week seven last year. So pretty remarkable recovery for him to be back on the field and participating in team drills.

You know, nine months removed from a pretty significant surgery. He made a great play down the field against Keenan Allen and single coverage. And having him back is going to be absolutely enormous for the Chargers. It just creates a ton more depth and their secondary. And obviously they gave J.C. Jackson a lot of money last offseason. You know, eighty five million dollars because they felt like he could be a premier number one corner. And if he can come back and play anywhere close to the level that he played in New England, this is going to be a pretty good cornerback group.

And so that was really my big takeaway from yesterday. Yeah, I think still you just talked about it, the money that the Chargers gave to J.C. Jackson a year ago. But now the money that they're going to give Justin Herbert to me, I think that's also should be talked about in praise. This is an organization that has been one that kind of waits to the end or they kind of players hold out. They kind of have to force their hand and to hand out what the richest contract in NFL history in terms of average per year.

How surprised are you that this came about so quickly or actually quietly? How it just kind of came out of nowhere and boom, the deal got done. Yeah, I mean, they've been working towards the deal pretty much since the end of last season. I mean, this is kind of how it works in the NFL. You know, you draft a quarterback and he develops into the type of player that Justin Herbert is. You know that you're going to have to pay him after year three and the market sort of dictates what you're going to have to pay him. You know, Lamar Jackson signed for $52 million in average annual value. So you kick it up a little bit and Justin Herbert ends up at $52.5 million. And I think, you know, a lot of the structure of the deal was established much earlier in the offseason.

You know, and then there's a lot of posturing that sort of goes on. But, you know, you look at some of the contracts the Chargers have given out like in the last three, four years. They're willing to pay their guys if they're performing and they feel like they have more to give. I mean, they gave Joey Bosa the biggest contract ever given to a defensive player at the time in 2020. They made Keenan Allen the second highest paid receiver in the league in that same offseason. They made Derwin James the highest paid safety in the league last offseason. And then they paid Justin Herbert. So, you know, and they gave Mike Williams $20 million a year last offseason. So, you know, that's always been the strategy for general manager Tom Cholesco. You know, you draft, develop, and then if guys are there, you pay them at market value. And I think the Chargers have proven that they're capable and willing of doing that over the last four or five years.

Chargers reporter for the athletic Daniel Popper joining the Rich Eisen show, Kirk Morrison here filling in for Rich. Daniel, now comes the expectations and that's the one thing I felt that with Justin Herbert. The expectations have been sort of tempered, but now would you get the contract?

I think we all want to see results. What's now the pressure now being put on Justin Herbert after signing this contract? Yeah, Kirk, I think you're right on it. I mean, you know, when you're on a rookie deal, you know, you can be a developing player, you know, even at the quarterback position. And obviously, Justin Herbert's been a record setting player on his rookie deal. But when you get this type of contract, the expectations are sky high, you know, and a lot of that is related to how much of the salary cap that you're taking up.

You know, when you're taking up 15%, anywhere up to 25% of the salary cap, there's less money to spend elsewhere. And in order for you to be a perennial contender, you need that player to be playing at an MVP level year over year. Like that, those are the expectations now for Justin Herbert. It's not, hey, can you take the next step?

It's not, hey, can you develop? It's, hey, can you be an MVP player year over year? And that creates certain expectations. Justin Herbert is well aware of those expectations. And I think that's why this season has those type of expectations for everyone involved. I mean, Justin Herbert has to get to that level. And they're excited and they think he can get there because of offensive coordinator Kellen Moore.

But those same type of expectations apply to everyone. You look at the amount of money they've spent on this defense for Brandon Staley. It has to be better than below average to middle of the pack. It has to be a great defense. And then, you know, even for general manager Tom Tolesco, entering his 11th season with the team, never been to a conference championship game. Like, this is the year. The expectations are sky high. There are no more excuses and the Chargers have to be a legitimate contender for the Super Bowl. And they absolutely have to push the Chiefs for the AFC West title this year.

That's the expectations and that's what it is for this organization. Yeah, I think the NFL sees that as well with the six standalone primetime game for the Chargers this year. I think the NFL is also taking notice. But that being said, we've talked the contract for Justin Herbert. But we know the big story over the last, I would say, couple weeks or maybe even the entire offseason has been the running back market. And Austin Eckler, guy who has been very vocal about the running back market. He's on this Chargers team. He signed sort of an addendum to the contract.

He comes back for another season. How is that sort of playing out between running back and his production? But then also with the organization who have clearly stated, hey, we like you, but we're going to put our value. We're going to invest other places rather than the running back position.

Yeah, it's a difficult situation. You know, Austin Eckler's story is pretty unique. You know, undrafted guy out of western Colorado makes the team as a special teams player. Gets his opportunity to really be the full-time running back when Melvin Gordon holds out in 2019. You know, emerges that season. Signs an extension in the 2020 offseason for four years, about $6 million a year.

And then he turns into, you know, one of the elite backs in the league. So, you know, it was more of a timing thing. You know, at the time for Austin, it was a fantastic extension. The Chargers ended up doing a great deal because they sort of projected what its production would become. But he was on the final year of his deal.

He was due to make $6.25 million. Austin wanted, you know, a lucrative extension. But considering the market and Austin's age as a 28-year-old running back and his size and the beating that he takes, the Chargers just weren't willing to go to that number.

And I think the market dictated it, right? They gave him the opportunity to go seek a trade partner and that didn't materialize. And then Austin came back to the Chargers and was like, hey, what are we going to do? And the Chargers, to their credit, you know, gave him something that they didn't have to give him. They gave him $1.75 million in incentives. They could have said, no, you're playing on your current deal.

We're not giving you anything else. And I think that in itself was a show of good faith toward Austin Eckler. And listen, Austin is motivated. Like, all of this stuff that's going on, not just his personal situation but running backs at large, like, he is a super motivated player regardless, but this is only going to add fuel to the fire. And he's looking to continue what he's done, which is, you know, 1,300 scrimmage yards, 18 to 20 touchdowns, like one of the top offensive players in the league.

He's looking to do that again and then hit the open market and hopefully, you know, get some money on the second contract, whether it's with the Chargers or elsewhere. But, you know, like you alluded to, it's a difficult situation. And I don't know how it gets fixed because there's all of these different factors from, you know, rookie contract, the CBA, you know, when in a NFL career, age-wise, a running back actually peaks. It's tough because when, you know, they're looking for that second contract, a lot of times running backs are, you know, 26, 27 years old. And, you know, that is the back end of a peak for a running back, if not the downslope.

And that's what makes the situation so difficult. He's Daniel Popper, the athletic beat reporter for the Chargers, joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show. And you can follow him on Twitter as well, at Daniel R. Popper. And I think the one thing that you put in a couple tweets out that you've seen Justin Herbert continue to do what he's been doing, which is the deep shot throws in practice. But it's a little bit different now because there's a different play caller. Last year, we know it was a little bit different with Lombardi.

This year, it's Kellen Moore. He comes over from the Dallas Cowboys. What have you seen, other than the deep shots from Justin Herbert, what is this offense going to look like for the Chargers and how much similar or maybe different than what Kellen Moore did while he was in Dallas? Yeah, so, you know, I think first things first, that's the biggest thing is that they are creating an infrastructure and an emphasis and a coaching style and a philosophy that's going to encourage Justin Herbert to push the ball downfield. But on top of that, you know, the one thing that was rather frustrating to watch about Joe Lombardi's offense was that it's super condensed and it's all operating in the middle of the field, a lot of condensed formations, and it means that all of your routes, all of your combinations have to be super precise and there's not as much room to operate. That's just the reality of that offensive scheme. You know, Kellen Moore comes from a lot of different places.

He has a lot of different influences in his coaching career, but one big influence for him was Scott Linehan, both in Detroit and in Dallas. And Linehan is one of the preeminent disciples of the spread offense. And so that's one thing you're going to see with Kellen Moore, that they're going to spread things out a lot more, move guys around, create more space, not just vertically, but also horizontally on the field to give Justin Herbert and his receivers a little bit more room to operate and a little bit more room for error. Another thing that I think is going to be big with this offense is the running game. I think they're going to simplify the running game. It's going to be a north-south running game. They're going to get after people and go downhill and use some of these really strong interior linemen between, you know, Zion Johnson at left guard, Jamari Salyer at right guard, Corey Lindley at center, and really go downhill and attack off the ball and be a north-south running game that's a little bit simplified to allow these guys to play fast, really operate between the tackles, and then, you know, attack on the outside with some bells and whistles, whether it's, you know, toss plays, jet sweeps, those type of things. But they're going to major in being a north-south between the tackles run team, and I think that's going to lead to better overall run output, which will obviously take some of the pressure off of Justin Herbert's shoulders. Yeah, the Justin Herbert contract has been signed, Daniel. And I think, before I get you out of here, that now has been the story over the last couple of days, the Justin Herbert contract. They finally have moved on, because when you think about it, you're only as good as your last game.

That's what I was always told. You're only as good as your last game. And remember, the last game the Chargers played was an embarrassing playoff loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars after being up, you know, over 20 points on the Jaguars. Trevor Lawrence and the guys come back and beat them. Have they gotten over that yet? Is that now done with now that we've got the contract with Justin Herbert, everybody's moved on to 2023, or does some of that still linger a little bit with players that kind of rub them a little bit the wrong way, gives them the motivation in training camp?

I mean, it's absolutely on their minds. I think Gerald Everett actually put it best earlier this week when he said, you never get over that. Like, if you're a competitor, you never get over something like that. You know, and these guys know that that's a stain on all of their resumes. You know, you blow a 27-0 lead in the playoffs, like that is on your resume forever. And the only way to overcome that is to go ahead and win a Lombardi.

Like, that's it. You know, and they understand that. And honestly, like, these guys should be thinking about that game every single day, you know, because that's the motivation that you need to go out there and perform. And we'll see, like, I don't know what kind of impact it will have. I don't think the players know what kind of impact it will have. I don't think the coaching staff knows. Nobody knows because, you know, there's that human element to it. And we're going to find out when they step on the field in week one, you know, if this is going to be, you know, something that's beneficial and boosts the team forward, or if it's going to be a detrimental thing that hangs over the team.

Like, that's something that I can't answer until I see this team go out and perform in a regular-season game. He's Daniel Popper, the senior writer for the athletic covers, the Chargers. Daniel, always enjoy the time, my man.

Enjoy that coastal breeze down there in Costa Mesa at Chargers training camp. All right? Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me on. Sounds good, Daniel. Appreciate it. That's Daniel Popper.

You can follow him on Twitter, at Daniel R. Popper. Some of the news now in the AFC West, when you think of Chargers, second-best team in that division, I think we can say as a consensus, Chiefs 1, Chargers 2, and then there's Denver and the Raiders, or Raiders and Denver, however you want to see it. My expectations for the Chargers, pretty simple. They got to get to the division around. I don't know if they closed the gap between them and the Kansas City Chiefs.

They're close, but they still seem to be a little bit of a gap in between the Chiefs and the Chargers. But I kind of feel like there's something brewing in Denver. I don't know if it's – maybe it's the new head coach.

Maybe it's the new regime. But if you haven't heard what's been going on in Denver, you know what, I'm going to save it. Take a little break. I need time to digest what's been going on over in Denver over the last couple days. And making not necessarily the AFC West a little spicy, but former coaching staff in Denver, things maybe get a little spicy, who are coincidentally are now with the New York Jets.

I'll tell you all about what I'm talking about in just a moment. But when we come back here on the Rich Eisen Show, Kirk Morrison here filling in for Rich. Seattle is hosting New Orleans in a playoff game.

Correct. In Seattle. And we played them earlier. We played them earlier. And so the first thing in the morning when I get up is I have a waffle, you know, the whipped cream, strawberries and I'm flipping through the networks trying to get either ESPN or NFL Network. Who's going to give me the forecast?

NFL Network, I got it. I'm eating my waffle and they pan down on Russell Wilson and Drew Brees throwing a football on the field in their graves. I'm going to tell you where I'm supposed to be at that moment when they're throwing a football. I am supposed to be meeting with the officials, discussing the inactive's, all right, and getting ready to say the Lord's Prayer and give our players a pep tie. That's where I'm supposed to be when I run to the shower, call my assistant, can't get him.

The waffle is spilled on the floor. I get back. My assistant says, hey, what's up? And I said, when did the buses leave? No one called. He said, coach, the buses haven't left yet. They had taken B-roll from the Monday night game. Someone in the tape room ran the wrong tape. Can you imagine? I text Falk. He's on set with Rich. I said, what are you guys doing? I had a cow.

I'm telling you, you have no idea. We're talking about being like this is the divisional playoff game, not being there for the kickoff as the head coach. That's how late I was. And Sean just marshaled, showed me the text. We went back and forth. I arrived. This guy now is live on the field, and I peek out at the stadium only because of the conditions, and I take a look, and Rich says, good to have Sean Payton here at the stadium one time.

Just some slight comment that not one person is going to understand until we tell this story. Amazing. Rich Eisen show. Kirk Morrison here filling in for Rich. A little Sean Payton here for all the people watching and listening. I mean, it's always great to see good coaches come back.

I think Sean Payton is one of the good coaches in the National Football League. He goes from New Orleans, sits out a year, does TV, gives us great insight on how he did things as a coach, day to day, week to week, how he evaluates, and then very quickly he becomes the head coach of the Denver Broncos, kind of come in to resurrect, I don't know if you can say the career, but resurrect Russell Wilson, who had a down year. So a lot has been going on in Denver. They've got a new ownership group we know about, and they want to see success. And last year, that was just not it. That was not it in Denver.

I think because of the expectations and the hype. Some of what we've been talking about with the New York Jets, the Jets have had all this hype, and when you have that kind of hype, and it's a dud, we're not going to forget, and we're going to let you know how much you gave up, or if it turns out bad, we're going to let you know. Just as much as we've let Denver know. But there's two things that have helped out, I think, the Denver people. Number one, the Denver Nuggets won a championship. Denver fan base is excited about a championship. We won a championship, we're good.

I think we were just talking about it off air. Coach Prime, the Colorado Buffaloes, the excitement that Coach Prime has brought now. So it gives people even more excitement to talk other things in Denver. But they don't want to revisit. And I know somebody who else doesn't want to revisit what happened last year. It's probably the current head coach, Sean Payton, who we just talked about. Now, Sean Payton has gone on record talking about everything pretty much that he's had to fix from last season.

I think he had a chance to talk to Jared Bell of USA Today, and he's had some comments, and they're starting to circulate today. The words of Sean Payton. Oh, this is the quote from Sean Payton speaking to Jared Bell. Oh, man, there is so much dirt around that. There's 20 dirty hands for what was allowed, tolerated in these training rooms. The meeting rooms, the offense, I don't know, Hackett.

A lot of people had dirt on their hands. It wasn't just Russell. He didn't just flip.

He still has it. This BS that he hit a wall, shoot, they couldn't get a play in. They were 29th in the league in pre-snap penalties on both sides of the ball.

But everybody's got a little stink on their hands. It's not just Russell. It was a poor offensive line. I think we know what he said there. It would have been one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the National Football League. That's how bad it was.

Some truth to those statements, right? Oh, we got one more. Oh, he's not done. He's not done.

Here we go. It doesn't happen often where an NFL team or organization gets embarrassed, and that happened here. Part of it was their own fault relative to spending so much money, or expletive, whatever, time trying to win the off-season, the PR, the pomp and circumstance, jets, marching people around and all this stuff. We're not doing any of that. The Jets did that this year.

You watch, hard knocks, all of it. I can see it coming. Remember when Dan Snyder put the dream team together? I was at the Giants. I was a young coach. I thought, how are we going to compete with them? Deion's over there. I remember that.

That team won eight games or whatever. So listen, just put the work in. It's about the work. Whoo. Whoo. I love it. Sean Payton's back.

Sean Payton with the hot fire, spitting hot fire. Oh, I loved it. All right. So that was, he's talking about the 2000 Washington team. Yes. Who was all on the team? Was that Jason Taylor on that team too? They were, I mean, Brad Johnson was the quarterback.

Yes. Jeff George was the backup. Man, they had Steven Davis.

Let's see. Steven Davis. Champ Bailey. Bruce Smith. Bruce Smith on that team? Deion. LaVar Arrington. Oh yeah. Wow.

Let's see. Who had the team in stacks that year? I thought maybe Bruce Smith was on there as well.

That was an all-star team it seemed. Yeah, Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson. Bruce Smith.

Yeah. Mark Warrier. Sean Barber. Let's see.

He had all the names. I mean, that's a team. They went 8-8.

8-8. That's what happens when the hype train gets you. I'm not surprised by Sean Payton speaking out. I'm not surprised at all because I think he's been around, been around this league for so long. He's been around the Dallas Cowboys. He's been a part of, you know, the hype train that is the Dallas Cowboys.

Sorry, TJ. But it's true. It's, there are certain things that coaches understand about how to run operations, how to run football. To me, it's the good coaches put it on themselves.

Put it on themselves. Okay, you know what? I'm going to make sure we do things correct.

I'm going to make sure I do things right. That's why this whole, it's a, it's a give and take, fellas, because we, you have a guy who's old school, Sean Payton, you know, that Bill Parcell's coaching tree, right? You know what I mean? Been around some of the great coaches in hard-nosed old school, how things are done, but yet you do have this new coaching tree of the Kyle Shanahans and O'Connells, McVays, Zach Taylors, Mike McDaniel, right?

So you have the young versus the old. What actually works? What is getting through the head of the players, to the head of the players? And I look at what Sean Payton is coming in and saying, basically, we got to put in the work. I think so many times now in sports is everyone wins the game on paper, and then you get out there and you realize, oh, this is a lot harder than we thought. It's a lot harder than we expected. You just don't show up and they put Mark W down for you.

No, you got to go out there and earn it. You got to do what it takes to win, and the margin in the National Football League, as we know, three points is a lot of points in the NFL. How many times do we see games end on Sunday on a field goal, a last-second touchdown? Very rarely do we see a team get beat by 14 or more points. The margin for error is so slim in the National Football League.

I can tell you that as a former player. I've seen it go up two or three touchdowns and like, wow, and then get erased like that because you take your foot off the gas or one guy makes a mistake. You throw an interception. You have a fumble.

You drop an interception. Sean Payton is putting a different perspective, a different mindset. Look, Nathaniel Hackett was a first-year head coach last year, and very quickly, you knew he was in over his head.

It was just too much to handle. A lot of coaches are good coordinators. They know how to coach their group or their side of the football. Head coaches, CEOs. They got to watch it all.

They got to see it all. Now, some have said, you know what, I'm still going to be a play caller and be a head coach, which you still can do. That's fine. But it is difficult. It is very difficult in today's NFL, I believe, to do both. It takes a strain on you.

You have to relinquish some of your duties in order to get the pulse of a team. Last year, we saw that in Denver. It just never looked right. And it all culminated, I remember, I took my son to the first Rams game last year. Took him to a game, Christmas Day, against the Denver Broncos. If you would have told me that the Rams with Baker Mayfield would have hung, was it 50 Burger?

Close to it. What was it? It was bad. It was bad. I don't know.

I don't think it came to. Yeah, it was just, he had the little slime head, because it was like Nickelodeon slime. So he had the slime on. He was excited. 50 Burger.

51-14. Yeah. A 50 Burger on Christmas. He gave him a gift. Yeah. When Sean Payton says that was embarrassment, that's an embarrassment. That is embarrassing. You can't give up 50 points on Christmas.

No. That leaves a mark. But it also gets the attention of the players and say, this, what was going on last year, is unacceptable. And then the Jets weren't safe, because he threw a little shot at the Jets, too. He threw a shot at it. He said, I've been there.

I know what it looks like. Everybody's talking how good you are, all the extra media attention. You got to go put the work in. You got to put the time in.

You got to do the little things. Now, I think Aaron Rodgers is a little bit different when it comes to that, because he knows what it looks like. He knows the preparation.

He knows when to maybe get under a guy or rip a guy. I think that's in Aaron Rodgers. But when it comes to Denver, the leader of that team is no longer Russell Wilson. It's the head coach. There's some teams you always say, you talk to the quarterback before you talk to head coach.

I don't have to worry about that now in Denver. It is all about the head coach, Sean Payton. It's not about Russell Wilson.

It's not. I think Russell is going to be fine. He's going to have another fan. I think he's going to have a fantastic year, maybe comeback player of the year. Can he be comeback player of the year, by the way? I mean, I know he didn't have an injury, but I think he could be comeback player of the year. He's coming back from stinking. He's coming back from... Because like you said, everybody had some stink on him. Everybody had some stink on him, but I think he can come back from it. I think he can come back and have a season in which this could be a playoff team, have an outstanding defense. Vance Joseph comes back to Denver, not as the head coach, but now as a defensive coordinator. They've got some pieces. They've got some guys that I'm looking to see how this team performs. I wouldn't be surprised if they leapfrog the Chargers.

I wouldn't be surprised about that because again, it's the hype train. I mentioned earlier, the Chargers have six standalone games, six prime time games. That's a lot. That's a lot. So what do you do?

What do you do? Show it to me. I've told you earlier, you got to prove it to me.

You got to prove it to me. So I got, I'm excited about it too because with training camps starting around the league, coming up top of next hour, I want to go to training camp with you guys, you know, I want to go to training camp. And so if we all go to training camp, you got to bring something. So everybody put together a list. If you're going to training camp, what would you bring to training camp?

Some essentials? Yeah, you got to bring, you know, just a short list. So we're going to go over our list of what we all would bring to training camp. I know I got a couple of training camp stories for you too because I had, I was in eight training camps.

That's what I want. Eight training camps. Seal the best training camps set up by far. Best training camps set up by far. Playing with the Oakland Raiders.

Oh my God. Best training camp set up ever. The Napa Valley Marriott facility. That's where training camp was. Wow.

In the Napa Valley Marriott. It was great. It was great. Free wine at lunch. Oh man.

Oh, lunch at night. You talk about just the hotels attached to where it was trained, the actual practice field was, it was literally just steps away. The climate was great. You know, I'm looking at what's going on in Arizona right now and they finally said, oh, we finally have a relief. We didn't get to 110 plus degrees today. I'm like, wait, what?

That's relief. I mean, that's heat over there. Now, granted, they practice indoors at State Farm Stadium for training camp, but I'm looking at Las Vegas. Vegas is over 100 degrees plus. I played in Jacksonville in 2010 and I remember the first time practicing in 95 degree heat plus humidity.

Plus humidity. And I, you know, every football player, if they've never questioned why they play or they've questioned retirement at any point in their career, they're lying to you. They're lying to you. I promise you. Throughout my career, I questioned retirement a lot. Why am I doing this? There are so many other things that I could be doing right now instead of going to this training camp. I remember there was one time I was exhausted. I'm talking about exhausted. I'm tired. I woke up, you know, you had the early morning lift and you had meetings and you had practice and then you had a little time in between.

But I was also, I think I had like a little sore injury or something and so I had to go get a little bit of treatment. I had a little bit of time for a nap and I remember setting that alarm. And I felt like I laid my head down and once I laid my head down, the alarm went off.

That's how quick it was. And I contemplated, I'm done. I am done.

That's what you told me. I told myself I'm done. I'm not getting up. For summer, I found a way to get up, got through the practice.

I think I had like an interception or a couple of big plays in practice. I'm back. I'm here. I am, baby.

Oh yeah. I'm back. It's going.

Let's go. I'm on it. This is why I do it. You know what I mean? It's kind of like my golf game too, you know? You hit a couple out of bounds and then all of a sudden you get to 18 in this little gallery and you strike one on the green and two and everybody's like, yeah, good shot. But they didn't see those other ovals a little bit earlier.

How bad I was. That's how it is. That's how it was in the NFL. It's the ups and downs and the flow. And that's what I always remember about training camp. It's fun. Man, you know how many times I've almost quit golf just in like the last week? That's how it was last week for me too, man. It's just, man, training camp, it's fun, man, because I watch it and I see it and, you know, sometimes you get there.

Like I saw John Ross, wide receiver, drafted in the first round by the Cincinnati Bengals, was signed with Kansas City. He just said, we retired this week. He's like, you know what? I'm done.

I can't. And maybe it's not because of his ability, it's just more said like, it's just not for me. And this is what happens with the expectations that have been put on you by being drafted in the first round. He didn't ask to be drafted in the first round, but yet Cincinnati Bengals believe that he could be a first rounder. And so that goes along with you and expectations and not living up to them and at some point you just walk away and say, you know what?

This isn't me. Or he has to go out there and he's on the third string and it's like, man, you know what? I'll just walk away from the game.

I'm done. Well, Kirk, when you run a 4-2, 2-40 at the combine, I mean, someone's going to have to take a chance on you and draft you very high. And that's still the record, if I'm not mistaken. Well, just because you run fast doesn't always mean you can play football. Well, yeah, but you know that and I know that, but a lot of GMs apparently will draft guys high simply based on that. I would say the Bengals have gotten better at drafting, right? Yeah. Yeah. The Bengals have gotten better at drafting. That's good. That's good.

All right, man. Next, we take you to training camp. TJ, Brock, Del Tufo, myself. How wrestling really works and how you get the ratings, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson explain on 83 weeks. Collision has been struggling a little bit out of the gate with these ticket sales. A little bit out of the gate. This was a major show announced on a major network with what everybody thought was this huge star, CM Punk. I said he was going to be the biggest financial flop in wrestling history and I think I'm being proven right every minute of the day. 83 weeks on YouTube or wherever you listen.