Listen, the way you sleep is unique to you, and that's why having a sleep number smart bed is so crucial. Cause you can adapt to your changing needs for just right. Can't wait to nestle into bed, luxurious comfort.
So whether your needs are softer or firmer, cooler or warmer, you are never stuck. You can adjust your comfort whenever you like. And it gives you your best night's sleep night after night, year after year. I love my smart bed. My sleep number setting is 60.
My wife's is 70. Just 10 numbers apart, but it means the world of difference because I can change my side of the bed to however firm or soft I want. And the same thing. For Suze.
So, why choose a sleep number smart bed? Again, so you can sleep just the way you like. The only bed that lets you make each side firmer or softer whenever you like your sleep number setting. Sleep number's biggest sale of the year is here. All beds on sale up to 50% off the limited edition smart bed limited time, exclusively at a sleep number store near you.
Sleep number, official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Yeah. The Rich Eisen Show watching Travis Hunter go back and forth live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles between different positions in different jerseys and prices. I've never seen anything like Hunter.
He wanted the ball and that's why. The Rich Eisen Show. I want to play both sides. With guest host, Tom Pellisero. Today's guests.
Browns Radio play-by-play voice, Andra Ceciliano. NFL on Fox analyst Greg Olson. Plus, latest news and more. And now, sitting in for Rich. It's Tom Pellicero.
Welcome to another Rich Eisenless edition of the Rich Eisen Show. I am Tom Pellisero. Pleased to be here in studio once again with the fellas, with my boys, what's up, Tommy P? Mike Del Tufo. TJ Jefferson, everybody feeling as fresh and well-rested today as I am.
I'm so tired. Yeah, you guys go too far. Took it easy. We had a little night last night, boys. That was drinking?
Down at the Egyptian theater, the premiere of America's team, The Gambler and his Cowboys. Uh the Jerry Jones Netflix documentary. I don't know that I've seen it. It's been a while since I saw a grown man cry watching a documentary. I feel like TJ was close.
It was marvelous. It was. TJ was close, man. He was in his weeping. He was in his guy there.
You were weeping? And I'm like, you know, I was like, that was really good. It was when he walks out and just looks at you and me, Brock, and it just goes. That was awesome. It's like the greatest time of my life.
It was that. It was a time warp for you. The documentary itself is one of the best just from the little that we've seen. We watched one episode. We watched one episode, episode three, and then we saw the first, what, six minutes of the open.
Right. Look, whether you're a Cowboys fan or not, like, and you just like good documentaries and you like sports. This thing was, I cannot wait to watch this. Yeah, that's what I told you. I was like, I don't give a crap about the Cowboys.
And that's not what he said. He used the other word that we got to bleep out. Not a fan, you know, but I obviously grew up and became a huge sports fan during that era, the early 90s. It was awesome. It was.
Yeah, take his word for it. It was so good. And it is, I cannot wait to rip through all eight of these episodes, man. Just even the six minute, essentially it was kind of a hype situation. It's a wild open.
Wild open. Wild. And talk about the backstory. And then all of a sudden there's... I'm not going to rattle off the list of things.
Let's just say the White House makes an appearance. Yes, the White House. Not the one they visited with George H.W. I mean, the scissors get a mention. There's a few.
Everything you're thinking time. Are they going to talk about this? Yes, they do. Right off the bat go, yeah, this is going to be in there. That's going to be in there.
Everything. And all the key players are involved. Like, Irv and Emmett were there last night during the Q ⁇ A, but sit down with Troy Aikman, Charles Haley, all the members of the 49ers, Steve Young, Carbon Policy, Jerry Rice, like. Everyone from that era, the early to mid-90s, who played a part in these games. They're in it.
Full on. A lot of Bill Romanowski. A lot of Bill Romanowski. A lot of Romanowski. But yeah, there was.
I mean, anytime you can incorporate Bill Romanowski. into anything. There's a level on which the pure insanity of the man. And I say that kindly. comes out in those moments.
Because the episode we saw was 1992 NFC Championship game. Like that, that was really it. It was diving into the whole rivalry between the Cowboys. And the 49ers, and then Hitting rock bottom and coming back up. And this was kind of the, this was when they knew that they were going to get over the top.
And that's the famous game. Alvin Harper goes for the essentially the game ceiling type of a play. And there's a backstory to that. I won't give the spoiler on this from a Michael Irvin explaining what happened on that play and how Alvin Harper came to be the one who caught the ball, which I did not know. I had never heard that.
I never heard that. Never heard that backstory. But that's the famous post-game speech. How about them Cowboys? This was ushering in a new age.
And also, Tom, just real quick. If you didn't know better when you just sat down, you thought, is this a Niner? I think even Al Michaels might mention it. Is this a Niner documentary? Because it was very Niner heavy.
It started off Dwight Clark to the worst play in the history of football, just in my personal opinion, to catch. Interesting. And then takes off from there.
Well, also, it kind of set up the whole passing of the torch thing. The Niners, the team of the decade, of the 80s. And then they got this rivalry with Dallas that's brewing. And then, you know, this 92 championship game kind of ushered in the cowboy era of the mid-90s. And there's so many names, too.
This is like the nostalgia piece for me, which is like I can see out of nowhere, haven't thought of a name. in you know Couple of decades, right? And then I just see them lining up for a field goal and I see a number six 49ers jersey. I'm like, oh, Mike Kopher. Like, I know that instantly.
Why is that? That's in the recesses of my brain somewhere that's blocking the part where it's like, Tom, can you do the dishes today? Sure. And then my wife comes home and the sink is still full. And in my back of my head, it's just going, Mike Kofer was the kicker for the 49ers in the 90s.
Like, that's what I have in there. That's what's blocking the synapses for everything else. I said the exact same thing to TJ. I was like, oh man, who is the kicker for the Niners? Oh, it had to have been Mike Koper.
And then I'm like, was I right? I didn't look it up. And then he turned around. I saw the back of his jersey. I was like, yep, still got it.
By the way, did you guys talk about this? No, we didn't. Because why in the world would both of you, within an hour of each other, mention Mike Kofer to me independently? Like when you said that. You mentioned Mike Kofer to him an hour ago?
That's the bottom of my head now. Yes, I mentioned that. It's not even like a name that you would think of, but it's 10 times at least. Listen to random players. With the psychological theories of the collective unconscious.
Where it's basically, how do we all know certain things? Right. Like, how do you know? You see, I was gonna say clowns, you see a vampire, right? Not an actual one, but like this, somebody dressed as a vampire, like, oh, that's scary.
Like, why do you think that? And the theory is that psychologically, It's been ingrained over generations, just like turtles know to swim a certain way, birds migrate. There's something in your DNA that's there. And I think that as men that grew up in the 80s and 90s. There is a certain level of remembering sports guy names.
That is just part of it. And not only that, but thinking that I need to mention this to the other person. Because he's probably thinking it too. You and I separately thinking all the things in that documentary last night. That's an hour-long episode.
There's them digging up Jerry's thesis at the University of Brexit archives about the future of sports and management that he based his entire career on. It's salesmanship. It's 60s. And it's entertainment. And there's all the great, the Hall of Famers in those games, Irv and Emmett being on stage last night.
Jerry visiting his parents' like resting places on their ranch and the ranch, like where his parents are laid down. Jerry firing guns. Jerry talking about oil wells. And you and I walk out of there. And somewhere we both woke up this morning going, Mike Cover was a pretty good kid.
I remember I picked him on my fantasy team in 1993. Like, that's the collective unconscious. I was like, wait, what? How? Why did Jay Novacek get no love?
He had a huge catch in that game. I didn't even see Jay Novacek. Maybe there's a backstory. He didn't talk to me. Jay Novache's still around.
He's always at the games with a cowboy head. He's still around.
So the other. Thing though that I walked away with was this because we talked about the nostalgia of us remembering this, and this was-I mean, that was prime 1990s, was like my viewing time through watching the NFL and beginning to know those personalities and understanding the Cowboys dynasty that had come after the 49ers dynasty, and then the way the 49ers interrupted the Cowboys dynasty, which I'm taking a wild guess doesn't get a full episode. 1994 is probably a blip in the 1995 episode of this. We're not going to see Steve Young get the monkey off his back for the same reason that they went.
So, we're going to show you the first six minutes. Then we're going to skip to episode three. They're not going to show us the 1989 episode last night, the one in 15 after firing Tom Landy. We're probably just going to jump ahead to the great success, but we have the nostalgia watching it. And you have to have, you walk away from that.
And just, I mean, knowing Jerry Jones, even people who have sparred with Jerry Jones over the years, even people who, you know, question a variety of decisions, you respect. The brilliance of the man, the businessman, and how he transformed that, and how forward-thinking he was in so many different things. They talked about the licensing deal last night with Nike and the fight that they had with the NFL and him opting out of the group licensing deals and all the different things he's done. But there was a nostalgic aspect to it to me. Even just walking in.
You're seeing the Lombardi trophies. And I went up to take a photo of one last night, and it was a 1970s Lombardy trophy. And there are whoops and cheers in the audience last night. That was me, I'm sorry. Yeah, I needed to keep it down.
I saw the ushers come up a couple of times. But you had people literally cheering at these great moments. And then all of a sudden it hit me. I'm going, this was 33 years ago. Yeah.
We're talking about a Cowboys dynasty that was three decades ago. Half of Cowboys' fans, assuming that you've got a younger demographic, weren't alive. to experience that part of it. And so Jerry again a brilliant man, a brilliant promoter. Above all else, who had the vision to bring in Jimmy Johnson, to tear the thing down, to have Jimmy push for the Herschel Walker trade, get all the picks and then the additional picks and everything they did to build it.
And then you're in this 30-year window where, as much as Jerry talked about it last night, the reason we have the biggest fan base is because not just the people who are cheering for us, but the people who want to see us get our asses kicked, which is definitely true. Um But you've had ample fodder. And there have been plenty of times that people have gotten to see the Cowboys get their asses kicked. It has been a long time, not just since they won a Super Bowl, but since they went to an NFC championship game. You've had three decades since you were even close to attaining that same level.
Yeah, I know this, Tom. And so it was probably appropriate. Not that you needed a reminder, TJ, that the closest we got... Last night they're talking about anything in the past 30 years, there was a full Q ⁇ A. Al Michaels, who's still.
Unbelievably discreet. Sharp and throwing 95. He's one of the, you know, the voices of our, you know, of several generations of sports fans. The closest we got to asking or talking about anything. Since the early 90s, he started to ask a Micah Parsons question while talking about Evan Smith, who did hold out in the 1993 season.
And then Alcott's episode is like, we're not. We're not talking about that.
Okay. Yep. Moving on. Yeah, Jerry kind of gave him like a weird look, and they all kind of awkwardly laughed. And then Al just like, look at the left turn.
And the big difference is, I mean, they had just won a Super Bowl. Evan Smith led the league in rushing in 1992. Yep. These Cowboys coming off. Not the best.
Season? One in which you end up After several days of meetings and talks with Mike McCarthy, in which it seems like you're planning to bring him back. You never actually get to the point of negotiating a contract because Jerry comes to the conclusion, I'm just not going to be able to offer you the type of contract that you deserve.
So, Mike's like, okay, I guess we're moving on. You know, Shadi's in there now, and everything that I've heard about how he's handling everything there amidst. The usual levels of Cowboys drama has been really good, you know, in front of and behind the scenes. But we are at a weird point here where yes, we're going to watch the Cowboys. In the kickoff game.
Thursday night football. It is now 23 days away. That's how close we are to regular season NFL football right now. Michael Jordan. Can you remember a year, the Micah Parsons situation aside?
where there is Less discussion. Less consideration. of the Cowboys. And I mean that sincerely. Yes, we talk about it on the show because we were at a documentary last night, which was fantastic.
But right now, I think objectively... They might be the fourth most interesting team in their division. Oh. The Eagles are coming off a Super Bowl win. They are, I don't know what the betting favorite is, and I can't give gambling advice.
We wouldn't ask you. But the Eagles have to be among the favorites. And everybody believes they are going to be there at the end. Yeah. It's a three-way tie right now.
Eagles, Bills, Ravens are all 7-1. There you go. The Commanders with Jaden Daniels and with the oldest roster in the league, we'll call it the most veteran roster in the league, continue to double down. You bring in the Vaughn Millers of the world, you bring back Zach Erch, you keep Austin Eckler. You hypothetically are going to get something done with Terry McLaurin.
And we'll get to all these hold-ins momentarily since we've had some developments since yesterday's show. But the commanders are a really interesting team right now. And the Giants. who have Russell Wilson there, they do have a talented roster. You do not look at the Giants and go, these guys are just in over their heads.
You got Malik Neighbors. He's dealing with a toe injury. He didn't practice again today.
So that's going to be one to monitor. That's been ongoing for a while now. But you've got dudes on defense. You've got a bunch of pass rushers with Burns and Thibodeau.
Now Abdul Carter coming in. You got Jackson Dart, who one of the driving storylines for the season is going to be: how long does Russ get? Are we going to see Jackson Dart at some point? And then you got the Cowboys suit again. Setting aside Micah Parsons and a very strange situation in which not only are they not getting close to a contract extension with one of their best players.
They're not even talking. They're not even negotiating. Jerry has not reached out to the agent. As somebody pointed out to me last night, the agent has also not reached out to Jerry. My understanding is.
The agent David Bullagetta has told the Cowboys multiple times, hey, We're ready! Whenever you guys are ready to talk, to actually negotiate a contract, here we are, and it's not getting done. Set that aside. What is the storyline with the Cowboys? It's George Pickens coming in, and how that's going to work with CD.
They're pretty talented at wide receiver with those two guys. It's a good one-two punch. Dak coming back from a major injury. Have we talked about Dak as a top five quarterback in recent years, top 10? Is it, you know, you've got some other players on the team, but your offensive line has been banged up through the course of camp.
Your running backs, it's kind of, now I think Javante Williams will have a good year, but it's kind of a mishmash of different guys. Defensively, you're not going to have digs early in the season. You're not going to have overshown early in the season. Who knows how this plays out with Micah? What I'm getting at is I don't know that you have.
A storyline for a team that prides itself on being the story all the time. Much less do you have A team that anyone's looking at and going, boy, these guys could really make a run. They went 12 and 5 three straight years, 21, 22, 23. I know I don't need to remind you, TJ, where things went last year. But this might be The least expectation, let's put it that way, for a Cowboys team.
Good. going into a season, which might end up being A good thing.
So we got Micah Parsons. That's a hold in that continues to go on. You have James Cook. who today was back on the field of practicing. I am told no deal done.
As I have said many times on this show and elsewhere, they're not far apart, but there is no close. You only have done to paraphrase Yoda. There is no close. There is only done. And they're not there yet.
But now, all right, good faith. James Cook, get on the field. You don't want to negotiate with the guys on the field? Fine. I'm on the field now.
Let's see if we can get this thing done. Trey Hendrickson, that has been stuck in mud. for a while now. with the Bengals. You have termichlorin.
Which is an ongoing situation in Washington. He was standing on the field today, still technically on the pup list. But There has not been a great deal of traction. or seeing eye to eye on that matter. And then you got maybe the strangest one of all.
In Cam Hayward. Who literally did this last year? They did a three-year extension with him. And Kim Awards spoke yesterday. It was perhaps pushed out there by certain people that he was not fully participating in practice.
Here's what Cam Hayward had to say when he talked to reporters about why he has not fully participated. in practice once again this year. Um looking for my contract to be addressed. Yeah. Um Honestly, looking to be valuable.
In my eyes, when I look around and at my position, I think I'm like, what, 20 seconds. As a D-Tech, I'm 36 as a D lineman. You know, I know what I bring. To this team, and what I'm capable of on and off the field. And so it's hard for me to.
You know, having after the year I've had to really justify playing at the number I'm playing at. You know, I understand I signed a contract last year. But to be completely honest with you, when I signed that, I told them, you know, when I have an all-pro year, Expecting me to come back. You can look at the contract and see what it was, but I think everybody kind of giggled a little bit, but in my head, it's. I used it as motivation.
Um You know, I think There are definitely options out there that um Okay. That could reflect that.
So leaving the door open. to miss games. Again, one year after signing a new three-year contract after going through the same routine, there is not a team in the league. That wants to reopen a contract two years in a row. That's why we're in the spot we're in with Terry Hendrickson because he did an extension two offseasons ago.
Then last year, you're not going to do my contract. I want to trade. Forget it, I'm coming back. Then this year, hey, if you're not going to trade, if you're not going to do a contract, do a trade. That's still going on.
For Cam Hayward, I'll never listen. He's a really smart guy. He's been a good player for a long time. He has been an NFL PA rep, he understands the rules. But he's already made 13 million this year, by the way, based on how the deal was structured.
So you've already paid him $13 million this year.
Now it's, all right, now I'm gonna need more. And one of the complications when you're doing these deals is, well, If you're just looking, yes, at isolation and like cash this year, there's a lot of deals that don't look like they add up. But it's about what was the broader deal, what was the agreement at the time, saying that people giggled when you said, Hey, I'm gonna come back again. I doubt Omar Khan, Art Rudy. I doubt giggling was necessarily the response.
One of the misunderstood things. About the hold in is It's not a thing. Everybody, I've seen it so many times. People go, Oh, the holdout, nobody wants to hold out, they get fine. You come in, you don't get fine, you just don't have to practice.
No. I can't tell you whether Cam Hayward's getting fined, but you can be fined. And there are multiple guys who have been doing these hold-ins this year that are getting fined. Every single day. Because they're not on the field.
You got a handful of these happening around the league. Jawan Jennings allegedly has a calf. We know he wants a New Deal. Maybe that's his sixth one. But you've got a bunch of these, and at some point.
What you just heard from Cam Hayward is exactly. What? You are going to face as a deadline of sorts here. Which is if you now go into missing regular season games. Not only are your fines going to continue to accrue if you're getting fined, But now you're losing game checks.
For Cam Hayward, that's a pretty low number, again, because he already got paid out a bunch of money. But now you're into a completely different territory. You can't just Sit out. If you leave camp... They could put you on the reserve did not report list and take you out for the entire season if you don't come back in five days.
If you're holding in, again, there's all kinds of triggers. You can take away game checks in advance. You can take away a game check in advance for refusing to practice. It's a lever that most teams don't pull because we're just in a different age. Holdings weren't a thing 10 years ago, people held out.
Now the hold-ins, it's become this thing where initially it was, all right. This is a sign of good faith on both sides. Hey, we understand you don't want to practice to get a new deal. We'll work on the deal. Once that's done, we'll get you out there.
Now it's being used so much more frequently that at some point, The way to change that is some team going. Hey, if you're not practicing, we're finding you, and we're gonna take away a game check, and we're gonna come at you with everything we've got. Until that happens, which is just not something that management generally wants to do in 2025. You're going to continue to have these uncomfortable situations that, in the case of James Cook, Terry McLaurin, Cam Hayward, all in the past 24 hours are unfolding very publicly. And putting the team in the awkward spot of saying, You have a contract.
We might agree that you deserve more money. But you are here to play football, and we have rights as management. Let's take a quick break here. Andrew Ciciliano, Browns' play-by-play man, voice of the Browns. He got to call that first Shadur Sanders start.
Also, got a new show on Yahoo covering the entire NFL, one of the best in the business. Andrew Ciciliano in studio with us.
Next, Tom Pilacero in for Rich. Listen, the way you sleep is unique to you, and that's why having a sleep number smart bed is so crucial. Cause you can adapt to your changing needs for just right. Can't wait to nestle into bed luxurious comfort.
So whether your needs softer or firmer, cooler or warmer, you are never stuck. You can adjust your comfort whenever you like. And it gives you your best night's sleep night after night, year after year. I love my smart bed. My sleep number setting is 60.
My wife's is 70, just 10 numbers apart, but it means the world of difference because I can change my side of the bed to however firm or soft I want. And the same thing. For Suze.
So, why choose a sleep number smart bed? Again, so you can sleep just the way you like. The only bed that lets you make each side firmer or softer whenever you like, your sleep number setting. Sleep number's biggest sale of the year is here. All beds on sale up to 50% off the limited edition smart bed limited time, exclusively at a sleep number store near you.
Sleep number, official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. You buy a pair of socks, that's two socks. You buy a pair of Bombus socks, that's four socks. Because one purchased is one donated.
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Well, I mean, and that's why I'm wondering why you would go by the name of Maddie Ice Mac. That's why I'm wondering, I mean, that's a beer. Infused nickname and it doesn't fit anymore. Would you agree it doesn't fit anymore, Matt? Are you just the natural coming back?
Are we making a push for the natural here? No, I'm I'm I'm well I'm pointing out that certain nickname that you've had for a long time just just it I like beer I do like beer right so when it comes to it though, you're just you're not you're not slamming them back, right? What you're saying? No, I guess I'm drinking responsibly.
Okay. Something that would be. A natural light of some sort, Matt? What are you drinking? What are you drinking?
It's been a long time. See, you keep making my point. Why won't you take the natural from me, Matt? Just why won't you do it? I mean, how many times do I have to ask?
How many times do I have to ask? It's just nobody else wants it out of here. Um Are you aware I offered it to Stafford, your buddy? Did you do that right? Yes.
He didn't take it either.
Well, I mean, he. That's a no, Matt. Hold on a minute. Excuse me. Hold on.
I gave him full disclosure that it was a retread and that you had rejected it. Because I know you guys talk. I know you guys are tight, right? He forgot to mention it to me the last time I saw him. I can't believe that wasn't top of mind for him.
Okay, so just on behalf of all my loved ones who are cringing right now, just tell me to move on, Matt, and I'll move on. Just tell me to move on. Rich, you got to move on. You got to move on. I love you, but you got to move on.
Thank you, Matt. Thank you so much. Even if I gave you a t-shirt or anything. All right, Matt, I can take a hint after nine years or so. In the studio right now.
We're on the air, guys. I hadn't seen that before. I was ill-prepared. for something alive just Flailing around. Tom Pellisero in for Rich today.
So much to get into across the NFL. And it would not be a show, at least for the next several weeks here, if we didn't talk about Shadur Sanders.
So let's bring in somebody who was there. For the preseason performance that everyone will be talking about, the voice, the Cleveland Browns, our friend Andrew Cecilia. Great to see you. Great to see you, man. Great to see you guys.
Here's the other chair now. It's been a while. It is weird sitting here because that chair is so low. It is so low. Also, I have the Granger read memorized, and so I kind of wanted to go along with you.
CallerClickRanger.com. But I got caught because I also did it with supplies and solutions. It's now with professional grade products. Oh, there's new copy. It's new copy.
I haven't been there for weeks.
Okay. It's very important. And I tripped up. That's how deep it's embedded. You know who the kicker was for the Niners in the 1990s?
I was thinking about that last night because when.
So we saw the Netflix thing we're at the premiere. I'm sure you've talked about that already. But yes, I was trying to put names and numbers. Like when Michael Irvin said, no, I didn't look it up last night. Mike Kofer.
We did not Mike Kofer. We did not have to look it up. We just saw Mike Kofer. It was the main takeaway for me and Brockman last night was we both walked away going, Mike Kofer. My co-ficker, we didn't sit together.
And when Irv said, Michael Irvin in the documentary said, I came over the middle as a bang eight and I've never been hit that hard in my entire life. And then they show the highlight, but you can't see who it is. It's 28. I'm like, oh, that's Dana Hall. And that was the entire, that was part of the game I was playing.
And I generally do when you watch old games, do this. It's like, can I get that number? Can I get that number? Can I get that number? Because you not only have.
What we all do, which is like the childhood memories because somehow those names are sticky in your brain from being 10, 12, 15 years old. But then you also did Red Zone for decades. You covered the NFL. You have more names probably stuck up there from just random dudes in the last 10 years. I didn't know everybody from the 90s.
I have to imagine you have. Completely weird running back names that are sometimes bouncing around that when you can't sleep at night, all of a sudden you just shout out. I don't know that I shout out random running back names, but I did while doing while doing that's a good one, the Bronze game on Friday. They have a new 35. To a Tawa is his name, former UFL Michigan Panther who only signed two weeks ago, who's a great story.
He was working at a golf course a couple of weeks ago, and now he's back and running the ball in the National Football League. But he's wearing 35, and I said, Well, you know, he's wearing 35, running like Barry Redden, who wore 35 for the Browns, I remember, and had a great Thanksgiving Day performance back when I was like 15 years old. And I'm thinking to myself, maybe five people got that. But if you're like a old school Browns fan of my generation, I hope you might have thought, oh, yeah, Barry Redden, I remember him. The other part, the other part of my brain that's taken up is when I was on the beat, covering like the Vikings and the Packers at various points from 2003 to 2010.
And because you're there every day and you remember like the roster churn and some guy who had a number on for like a week. And so now, like, I'll go to a Vikings practice. I still live in Minneapolis. And I'm like, I'll see some guy run by in 51. I'm like, oh, Lance Johnstone.
And that's like, no, that was 20 plus years ago. And that's definitely not him. But somehow that's the name. Mm-hmm. That appears in my brain.
Yeah. And it's like amazing on multiple levels that you've covered the league this long, right? I think I did the math. This is my 30th year somehow. Wow.
In some way, shape, or form. Like there are a couple of years you're doing national radio and you're going to the Super Bowl and doing Radio Row.
So is that really only covering the league? We'll count that. They're like three or four years ago. I count the years when I was at like the Eau Clear Leader Telegram and every now and then I'd get to go cover one game. I'm like, that was a year ago.
I'm going to count that. I had a credential fuzzy I was going through my phone and I found a couple of weeks ago my the My credential for my very first regular season game, which was the Bears Cowboys week one Monday Night Opener at Soldier Field in 1996. Pre-renovations of soldiers. Pre-renovations. And I looked at it and I was like, holy bleep, I am old.
I unpacked an entire box of credentials that I had saved going back to like 2003. And it is, it is a frightening experience. Also, the credentials in like 2003, literally just a piece of paper. Yes. Now it's like a hologram on a plastic card that cannot be replicated, and your face must match the facial recognition technology for you to get through the gate.
There's a sample of your DNA actually under the laminate as well. Right. Supposedly, yeah, I can just walk up to a stadium and like it'll see me and I can come in. That's apparently, if you're in the system, that's now how it works. The credentials, I think, are just to show people.
But apparently, if it recognizes your face, then you're on the list. You're in. Correct. And you have to. You might have nowhere to sit because you didn't tell anyone you were coming.
Right. And they may not have a seat or a flip card for you, but hey, you can get a meal. Former NFL players still have that too. Yes. Can go and get tickets to any game.
Just walk up and get tickets. I think. They deserve them. I don't know how often that happens. Browns.
Yes. Let's get to it. Number 12. Yeah, he's good. Shador Sanders.
Hopefully that wipes out Josh Gordon, anyone else who's wearing 12, at least for the moment. Are we already going down to 12? Yeah, he was alright. You saw it live. You called it, and you've been around that team throughout training camp here.
Shadur Sanders' opportunity comes in very unusual fashion. It's literally because everyone else is hurt, except Joe Flacco, who is 40 and might get hurt at any second.
So let's roll Shadur out there. It looked good to the eye test. I'm not an expert. We had Chase Daniel on yesterday breaking down the X's nose. He went here to here in this read.
I just know watching it. The stuff you heard, the good stuff about Studor Sanders in college, which is he is going to be poised in the pocket. He is going to be very accurate with the football. He's going to be tough when he needs to take a hit. That stuff showed up.
It didn't look too big for him. He looked the part, and you're right. I mean, that's a great way to say it didn't look too big for him. It looked like the guy we saw at Colorado, which was amazing accuracy, pretty good pocket presence. We saw the good and the bad.
Like, we saw the very subtle movement on that second touchdown to Caden Davis, where let's give credit to an undrafted rookie running back, Imani Marshall, from App State, who. You know. Crossed the face of the quarterback, got the blitzer, but Shador didn't rise. That's James. You're still doing Monty Marshall in your sleep tonight, but Damoni Marshall, 39.
But he didn't flee the pocket. He just had the subtle movement, reset the pocket, and threw a dart into the end zone where only his guy can catch it. Shador Sanders is the statistically most accurate quarterback in Division I history.
Okay, only two years, but those two numbers are unbelievable. And you saw that there. He also, we saw some of the bad. And the thing that always people point out at Colorado and we have seen in the NFL now is him drifting backwards and kind of running around. It just is all right.
There's a great moment on the sideline there that the Browns caught up with. They're mic'd up, and he was mic'd up, in which he was saying to Miles Garrett on the sideline, like, Hey, I would love to do that against you. And he's like, Yeah, like you're a nice kid, don't do that to me. Basically, like, you don't need that from me. I'm coming after you.
They've tried to coach that out of him. You saw that in the game, but you saw a guy that looked the part. The moment was not too big for him. And to be fair, he hadn't gotten a lot of reps. He is fourth on the depth chart.
For a reason, he was the fifth-round pick. Fifth-round picks don't start in the NFL. Russell Wilson's a third-round pick. People point to Dak Prescott, but Dak Prescott, that was out of necessity. Tony Romo was hurt.
Brock Purdy started because Jimmy Garoppolo was hurt. Exactly. You go back to the Bucs in the 70s, the expansion Bengals in the 60s. That's the last time a quarterback drafted in six or seven or eight ever got to play. When he was given the opportunity, which is all you can ask for, he nailed it, and this week will be fascinating.
And so, if you're Kevin Stefanski, and again, you're around that team all the time, like you, you know, the dynamics. My understanding through the offseason was they truly wanted to watch all these guys. Is it probably Flacco? Maybe, yeah, but probably to get the credibility in your locker room, if somebody else outplays him, you start the guy who's going to give you the best chance. But it was going to be hard for both Shadur or Dylan Gabriel to learn an NFL offense.
They both had a long way to go in terms of that. How realistic is it here? Again, if Shador continues this over and we'll see how they handle the joint practices in the game this week, how realistic is it to say they give actual consideration to starting Shador? I think it is, and let's not aggregate this or clickbait this. I think it is unrealistic.
If you look at the Browns schedule, it's home against Joe Burrow, on the road against Lamar Jackson, home against Jordan Love, on the road against Jared Goff, then home game in London against the Vikings, a well-rested Vikings team. that would have played the week before in Dublin, then no buy, and you come home on the road against Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers, and they will be rested because they played week four in Dublin and are taking their bye week five. That's a gauntlet. There's no way you're playing a rookie quarterback right out of the gate. It's just not going to happen.
So in my eyes, it was always either Pickett or Flacco, Flacco or Pickett. And right now, Kenny Pickett, we'll see what he can do in Philadelphia, just isn't ready for 11 on 11. Which is likely to drop up 11 on August 12th. Correct. What are the odds that you are going to be able to close the gap and be on the field?
Dylan Gabriel also, he returned to practice yesterday. Through camp. Like, again, comparing can be difficult because everybody's out there.
Some are against the twos, some are against the threes. Dylan Gabriel versus Shador Sanders, what did you see? It's a hard comparison to make because of what you just laid out. Dylan Gabriel is getting far more opportunities, at least through the first couple of weeks, than Shador Sanders. He was, if you want to pay any attention to preseason game packet depth charts, which you should not, right?
You know, it's so fun. PR makes them. Like, we've had PR. It says, or off a starting quarterback. Let's tweet that 75 times.
Fun fact, I'm doing Kevin Stevansky's pre-game interview last Friday. Mm-hmm. And we're on tape, this played on the radio. And I said, by the way, like preseason depth charts, like, who makes those? And he looks over to PR and is like.
I don't know. I Does PR make those? I I don't even know. Every coach blames PR. Every coach blames PR.
And in reality, I don't know if that's always the case. I'm not accusing Kevin of anything. I'm just saying, I don't know if that's always the case. But there was this thing yesterday.
Well, the week two depth chart is out. Nothing has changed. Can you remember in all your years covering the league when a preseason depth chart in the game book or the packet changed? It's not a horse race. in August.
Coaches don't want to tell you anything. They're not changing anything. Look at the reps. The only time is if you name a starter at a position, they might move it. It doesn't matter.
Anyway, back to your question: Dylan Gabriel, much like Shadora, had good days and bad. He's had more opportunities with ones and twos to have good days. I was not at practice yesterday. I will be there for the joint practice tomorrow in Philly from. Everything I heard, Dylan Gabriel had a really good day yesterday, but Shador did.
as well. They're both rookies. They're both going to have those moments where you're like, yeah, you can't do that. I'm excited to see what Gabriel can do in a game. And I think we may get that this week because, like I said, Chador is the most accurate quarterback in D1 history.
No one has thrown more touchdowns in D1 history than Dylan Gabriel. He's not a slouch. Started a lot of games to start to get there. He played highly productive. Highly productive.
And the way that they looked at him and teams looked at him was just: all right, the upside of him is he's mini bow nicks. Same offense, same 60-plus starts, tons of touchdown passes, plays similarly. He's just small. He's short. Yeah.
Not small. He's more thickly built, but he is short. He was standing next to Bryce Young in the joint practice in Carolina last week, just in between periods, and they were talking. And they are similar in height, but Gabriel is. More body is bigger, thicker, Bryce is slight.
Now. Dylan is not Baker Mayfield, who's you know A brick, you know, what house. Right. Yeah. And Baker wears like the gigantic rib pads that make him look even bigger than he actually is.
He is absolutely quarterback when you're standing next to him. Do we see 15 in the preseason? Do we see Flacco? Um I don't think so. I I'd be surprised me So let's go back.
So the third preseason game next week is in Cleveland, and it's the Rams coming to town. Sean McVay is not going to play anybody. If Sean had his choice, he wouldn't even put his first team on the plane. Right. Right.
Like, why do I want their back to lock up? Forget about Matthew Stafford. He doesn't want anyone on a cross-country flight that isn't going to play the game. Matthew Stafford wakes up and his back is locked up. Yes, it is.
We're getting old. I get it. I'd be surprised if Flacco plays in the preseason. Here's the other dynamic here. And there's two parts to this.
One, when we're talking about playing a rookie quarterback, part of the issue, besides the fact that these guys have so much to learn and there is that curve, is also if you do start the rookie, And then he struggles against that gauntlet that you talked about early in the schedule.
Now you have to pull him. And most of those stories don't end up like Bryce Young, where eight weeks later, 10 weeks later, Andy Dalton's in a car wreck, and Bryce Young, who actually matured and led through his benching, gets back out there and plays a lot better. Most of the time, it's.
Well that's it. You kind of gave up on him now. And then, what does that do to the dynamic? Flip side of it. If you're putting Joe Flacco out there and things don't look good, even in a preseason game, all right, let's get him out.
One series, get his feet wet. And that series just isn't very good because it's preseason football, and you're not game planning, and you're just kind of throwing whatever out there, and it's not good. And then Shadur comes in and lights it up against the twos and the threes. It's just going to make this entire megaphone louder that we're talking about, keeping Flacco away until you get to the real games. There is a strategy that's potentially involved in that, too.
Yeah, there is. And the hype train has left the station. I kind of feel. Do you sense a Tebow vibe? Literally talked about that on the show yesterday.
This is the closest thing.
So it's not just me. Tebow was a first-round pick, and they traded up to get him, and it was Josh McDaniels hugging everybody. And it was its own story. But There was that effect where I don't remember seeing another preseason game. You were on the broadcast, I was watching it.
And every time Shadur To pass, they would cut away in Charlotte to fans wearing Shadura's jersey and celebrating. Tom, we're on the bus. I don't remember that for anyone besides Tebow.
Sorry, I cut you off. We're on the bus. uh go into the game and I pull up uh my ticketing app, right? And I'm like, all right, let's see what it is.
Now, a lot of this is price gouging, people trying to get away with, hey, we'll put them up there high. Chris and I go through this all the time when we try to sell our tickets, right? It's like, how high do you put them? And like, what's the sweet spot? Let's see what I can get, right?
Lower deck seats two hours before the game. We're going for like $300. For a preseason game? For a preseason game. Two and a half million people watched something other than the Hall of Fame game in the preseason.
That is absurd. But with the Tebow thing, I almost feel like there's a Russian bot army out there. And I don't think there is. I'm not saying that. But you can just say, you can say his name.
And the slings and arrows, because people are going to bring their own opinion and they're going to attack you regardless of what you say. You can heap praise on the kid and they're still going to come after you. It's just, I've never seen anything like it other than T-Buddy. I guess the only other one that would be similar, I would still say, like the most like the world's colliding, viral moments colliding was the 2014 preseason, I believe it was. Michael Sam sacked Johnny Manzell and did the money sign.
And I was like, this is everything all at once, right here. I called that game too. There you go. Rams preseason CBS. But even Manzel was, there was a lot of hype around him.
But I mean, that was another Cleveland guy. It wasn't this. And maybe that's because of. The fact that he went in the fifth round, the fact that you had everything surrounding the draft. We got to take a break.
You hang, I wasted a lot of your time talking about old running backs from the 80s. Very rare. DJ Dozier. That's right. DJ 42.
I'm going to wake up for the new Penn State. Kevin Mack. And right there. 34. That's why I forgot to close the garage door when I left when we come out here.
All right. More with Andrew Ciciliano coming up in just a little bit. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID, and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info.
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Welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show. Tom Pellisero, and for Rich, Andrew Ceciliano, continuing to hang out with us right here. Not only the Voice the Browns, but you have a new show that, based on the number of logos I saw in the promo graphic, it appears to be on everywhere. Look at this. We've got inside coverage, Yahoo, YouTube.
That's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, I believe. That's a lot of stuff. The two-standard podcast platform logos there. Monday through Thursday, 6:30 Eastern. Tell me about it.
Does it look like they. Put like eye black. Do I have black eye? Like. I don't know.
That's a weird look like now, Andrew. No, no, no. I guess so. Anyway, that's an old photo. Yeah, I'm excited.
So it's a new project on Yahoo, 6:30 Eastern Time, live on YouTube. All their great reporters, Jory Epstein and Charles Robinson, and Frank Schwab, and other guys like Nate Tice, who's amazing, and Frank Harmon, throw them all together. And yeah, going live on the YouTubes. At night. Six original.
Yeah. 3.30 Pacific. Right. You're knocking off in time for happy hours. It's tremendous.
Love it. 3.30 Pacific. And that's fun. And also doing the Hard Knocks podcast as well, the official Hard Knocks podcast. Episode two is dropping tonight on HBO Max at 9 p.m.
Eastern Time. And had Ryan Fitzpatrick on the first one on this one. I have Pat Harris, who is now directing Hard Knocks this year. He has been one of the directors for the last decade. He has amazing old hard knock stories.
But what was cool is they gave him the job this year and they said, hey, you're going to direct hard knocks.
Okay, cool. And then they found out it was the Bills. He is from Rochester. He could ride his bike to St. John Fisher, played high school quarterback right up the road.
Imagine like you being like, you got to cover the Vikings. That was amazing, right? I got to do the Browns here. But like saying, hey, you want to produce or direct hard knocks with the Vikings? And that's what he gets to do with his hometown team.
Pretty cool. It does seem, and I know this to be the case, they definitely don't want to go leaning. Into news. I don't think we're going to see cuts. We are getting, you know, a taste of the people, it seems like, more than anything, right?
That's the focus so far, at least in episode one. And in episode two, you see more of that, a lot of backstories, but you also do see some conflict because now there is some conflict, obviously, and maybe a resolution. Is James Cook acknowledged? Because I don't think his name was even mentioned in the first episode. It is acknowledged in this episode.
It is. Yes. We are covering it. Yes. I don't want to spill the entire episode, but.
Yes. Absolutely.
Well, it's going to be awkward if they need to get a deal done today. It's back on the practice field. That's going to be some quick, some quick late editing on the old school hard knock show. At 9 p.m. Eastern time.
9 PM Eastern tonight. And then the podcast drops immediately. The podcast will drop, I believe, audio afterwards and then video the next day. Got it. Yeah.
So excited for that as well. Who else is on that podcast? Just me. Me and whomever we have as a guest. Yeah.
So last week, Ryan Fitzpatrick was Bill's legend. Like he's played for nine teams, but like in his heart, he's kind of a Buffalo Bill, still showing up shirtless on the field, and he's amazing. And then Pat Harris, and then a special guest next week as well. I was going to say, speaking of shirtless, I figured Deion Dawkins, just anything surrounding the Bills, he would just show up. It's like you're not even invited, but Deion Dawkins, he's now on the podcast.
Why? I don't know. He just called in and people. Is he not one of your favorite people? He is awesome.
Every time that he comes on, comes on the insiders. And it's always fun. Such a gregarious dude. He was one of the driving forces behind this offensive line award. In the first episode, he kind of freaked me out because he has his little daughter in the front seat while he's drifting in like an 80s-era BMW.
Yeah. Everyone's okay. Coco's okay. That's his daughter. She loved it.
She loved it. Welcome back to the radio audience here in the Rich Eisen Show. Andrew Ciciliano here with me, Tom Pillicero, in studio. Right now, Matthew Stafford, as we're speaking here, not on the practice field again. You did their preseason games for years.
I know you know a lot of people over there. You've also seen Matthew Stafford pull the, oh, is he not going to make it routine many times, both in training camp and game weeks? And then somehow he's always out there. What is your level of concern if you're a Rams fan or somebody in that building right now about Stafford and his back? I would say it's a little bit more than it was a few weeks ago.
I think that is fair and natural. We're getting closer and closer. We're now officially inside of four weeks until game number one. I think that gives you some anxiety at the same time. It is still four weeks, and he is the kind of guy that can roll out of bed without practicing and still go no look 30 yards downfield, cover, cover two whole shot to Puka, and he's going to tap the toes and he's going to be back and everyone's going to be happy again.
He can still do that. I think both can be true. They have one of the better backup quarterback situations in the NFL and Jimmy Garoppolo, a guy that came this close to winning a Super Bowl. Jimmy can play. At the same time, I don't know, this is going to sound like a shot, but I don't know that they're a Super Bowl contender if they don't have Matthew Stafford.
I'll ask you: do you think if Jimmy Garoppolo has got to play the entire season, we're talking about this team of the Super Bowl?
Well, I think that event. Playoff team. In the rare events. through recent NFL history in which a starting quarterback like that gets injured or or misses the season. We have seen teams do aggressive things to find another solution.
The Rams did it some years ago, even plucking Baker Mayfield and starting him three days later. In this case, there just so happens to be a guy who's currently making $27.5 million to be a backup in Atlanta who suddenly might have a great deal of value to a Sean McVay-led offense that runs essentially the same scheme that Kirk Cousins came up playing with the Kyle Shanahans of the world and then also played in with Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota.
So. This would be... As much as, and I know I've made this point on the show before, I don't know that Kirk would accept a trade just anywhere. You know, somebody who has no connection to him, you know, I don't even want to say a name and jinx somebody, but some quarterback goes down, it's like a totally different offense. He might go.
I'm good. My family's here. I'm making a ton of money to not play football. Like, I'll stay. The Rams open up.
I would think Kirk Cousins would be pretty excited about that opportunity. I would ask aloud. Is Kirk Cousins coming off and Achilles, now two years removed. that much of an upgrade. Over Jimmy Garoppolo.
The history would say Jimmy Garoppolo is not starting 17 games for you, regardless. Correct. And then Stetson Bennett is the entire season. And Stetson Bennett. Played a lot of good college football.
Has not really played NFL football and missed his entire rookie season, is now one step away. Correct. Yeah, I don't know that they would feel entirely comfortable, despite Stetson's good performance this weekend. I don't know that they'd feel entirely comfortable as him as the number two. I think Jimmy Garoppolo is good.
I also think there's a part of Sean McVay. I mean, of course, Jimmy Garoppolo is good. There's a part of Sean McVay that. Kind of wants to, not wants to. He doesn't want to be forced into this situation, but he'd be.
He would embrace the challenge of proving that he can go into Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo. Does that make sense? Oh, 100%. 100%. Very friendly Kyle-Sean rivalry.
You know what I'm getting at. Yes, absolutely. At the same time, I think they're crossing their fingers and holding their breath that Matthew's back is going to feel okay. Look, he had that trailer. You saw that trailer in front of the field yesterday?
I pulled that photo up real quick. Does it not look like Jimmy Garoppolo has dreadlocks in this photo? Can we pull that back? The Jimmy Garoppolo photo will be there. He's dreadlocked back here.
Look, right there. Does it not look like windblown hair is coming off? Is that Devontae behind it? He's got a new look. Yeah.
Right?
Sorry. I just got lost in his eyes.
Sorry. He got lost. But Andrew looks like they look like they'd be cousins or something.
Somebody said that to me once, and I'm flattered. You should take back and run with Jim. I get Andrew. Jylen Hall is a lot better than some of the other horrible things I see on Twitter making comparisons. We did a nesting doll situation.
You could be like two steps down from Jimmy. I'm flattered. I don't know what to say. I'm stunned and I'm flattered. Yeah.
You got the new show, Yahoo, and YouTube and Spotify and Apple inside coverage every Monday through Thursday, live, 6.30 Eastern Time. What else are you excited to talk about going into the season? You'll be Browns all the time, Browns broadcast, Brown podcast. But when you get into the season, you're talking about everything. What are you looking forward to?
Honestly, like looking at the rookies, looking at Cam Ward over the weekend. And I know people go on and on about, well, he's not getting respect.
Now, there's a difference between respect and attention. I don't think they're the same thing. I know there's some overlaps, certainly. I liked what I saw from Cam Ward. I'm still fascinated by how the Micah Parsons thing is going to shake out.
You and I were there last night, and Jerry got kind of needled about it, and he wouldn't go there, which said something. Al Al kind of tried to ask you a question without asking a question. And even Al Michaels is like. I'm not going to derail this whole thing by doing this right now. I mean, how is that going to play out?
And I'm also fascinated by the quarterback movement here. You mentioned Kirk Cousins. There are other veteran quarterbacks out there if there is an injury, right? Like the Giants don't need Jameis. Sure.
They don't need Jameis. At all. I love them. Tannehill's sitting out there. He didn't play last night.
Tan Hill sitting out there. Wentz is hanging around. The Browns have two veteran quarterbacks. The Browns have six quarterbacks. They have six, but they have two at the top there, veterans.
You're the best. Likewise for being here on the new crush. Thanks for having me. Goodbye. La Morcom.
I am Michael Rosenbaum. I am Tom Welling. Welcome to Talk Bill, where it's fun to talk about small books. We're going to be talking to sometimes guest stars. Are you liking the direction Plois is going in?
Yeah, because I'm getting more screen time. That's good. But mostly it's just me and Tom remembering. I think we all feel like there was a scene missing here. You got me, Tom.
Let's revisit it. Let's look at it. See what we remember. See what we remember. I had never been around anything like that before.
I mean, it was so fun. Talk Bill. Talk Bill. I just had a flashback. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.
Let's get into it.
