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Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. It's our job to make sure all 32 teams are talked about and their fan bases are up to date entertained as possible. Earlier on the show, NFL VP of Broadcast Planning, Mike Norris.
Still to come, Seahawks General Manager, John Schneider. Actor, Josh Duhamel. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Our number two of the Rich Eisen Show is on the air.
844-204-RICH is the number to dial. The schedules are out. We've got ourselves a full load of phone calls. People want to tell us who's going to win, who's going to lose for their favorite team. The win-loss game is back, everybody.
Suzy Schuster is back, sitting in for Chris Brockman today. We've got a What's More Likely coming up shortly here on the program. Good to see you, Suze.
Great to see you. Set to be in this chair tomorrow as the Women's Sports Now takeover of the Rich Eisen Show all three hours. Because we're going to play Celebrity Family Feud against Dan Patrick tomorrow. I can't believe we're going to be doing that. I can't believe it either. And our number three, after we say goodbye to Josh Duhamel as he stops by here in studio, we're going to play one more practice run of the feud. One more crack at the bat. I've got to tell you, Rich, you guys have got to come correct.
You've got to lower their mind. You've got to calm down and think Middle America. Okay. We will do all of that good stuff.
844-204 Rich. John Schneider, the general manager of the Seattle Seahawks will be joining us later on as well. TJ Jefferson in his usual spot right there. So you remember back about, how would we say, about 15 months ago when Caleb Williams was clearly going to be the first overall pick in the NFL draft. And there was some chitter chatter that he wasn't terribly keen on the idea of playing for the Chicago Bears. And that he might pull some sort of Eli Manning, Archie Manning situation.
And there was a, you know, a hot rumor that that's not, it wasn't his preferred choice. And the Bears fell in love with him and sent a whole bunch of people to his pro day. That was when Matt Everfluice was still the head coach. And they had Cliff Kingsbury in to maybe interview for the job.
And I thought that sounds perfect because Cliff Kingsbury was on the sideline at USC for Caleb Williams' final season there. And they decided not to hire him. They hired Shane Waldron, the Seattle Seahawks offensive coordinator to come.
And he really didn't light up too many fires in Seattle. Although Geno Smith was having resurgent years there for Pete Carroll. But the reason why I bring all this up right now is, as we all know, the Bears went ahead and drafted him anyway. And he went and he showed up for the Bears. It was like a conversation that he and his dad were trying to figure out ways, you know, to approach the draft that, shall we say, very few other prospects took. We're talking like part of the team ownership, right?
There was that conversation, too. And, you know, I just received a text during the commercial break of a link to an ESPN.com article about a new book that Seth Wickersham, who's been here many a time, has written. And it's coming out later on this year called American Kings, A Biography of the Quarterback. Kirk Cousins is going to be featured in it. Drake May. Unprecedented access, apparently, with dozens of quarterbacks and generational greats like John Elway, Warren Moon, the Manning family, Steve Young, Johnny Unitas, among others.
You know, Unitas no longer with us. But the reason why, again, I bring all this up is because in this book, Caleb didn't want to go to the Bears, and it is, in fact, confirmed by the dad, Carl Williams. And according to Seth Wickersham, he is quoting Carl Williams. Caleb's dad is saying, quote unquote, Chicago is the place quarterbacks go to die.
Whoa. Wickersham said Caleb wondered aloud to confidence, quote, Do I want to go there? I don't think I can do it with Waldron. Later on in this article, it says that Carl Williams went to great lengths to try to circumvent the NFL draft, wanting to give his son an opportunity to choose his future employer, as we know that's not the way it works. Carl was worried that with the franchise's history, I'm quoting from this article, stadium uncertainty in certain offensive performances under then head coach Matt Eberfluss, that Caleb wouldn't have the organizational support to succeed. I don't want my son playing for the Bears, Williams told several agents in 2024. According to the book, looking for a way around the league's collective bargaining agreement, Carl Williams spoke with Archie Manning, who helped Manning assert Eli, a measure of control over his eventual team in 04. He also met with labor lawyers and agents, even considered whether his son could sign with, wait for it, the United Football League.
Wow. That's the Rock's League, right? And become an unrestricted free agent this year to be able to pick a team. In addition to the draft process, Carl Williams vented about the rookie wage scale, which could lock his son into a team that drafted him for up to eight years. He calculated hundreds of millions of lost market value income, quote, The rookie cap is just unconstitutional, Carl Williams told Wickersham. Told this on the record to the author, later adding that the CBA is the worst piece of ass I've ever read.
It's the worst in sports history. That that at the NFL combine. Oh, my goodness. Caleb Williams met with Kevin O'Connell of the Minnesota Vikings. The two hit it off and Caleb began to dream of what it would be like to play for the Vikings. I need to go to the Vikings, he told his father. Let's do it.
His father replied. This is after they apparently drafted Caleb in. In.
No, it's not. It's before the draft because they thought that Caleb would be drafted by the Bears. I'm reading this just now. According to the article, both Caleb and Carl knew that a trade to a division rival is extremely unlikely. Bears GM Ryan Paul stood firm telling Williams, quote, We're drafting you no matter what.
This left only one option to publicly attack the Bears in the city of Chicago, hoping it would make the situation untenable, similar to what John Elway did with his dad, Jack, to the Baltimore Colts in eighty three. He's worried about me taking bullets. Carl Williams told Wickersham of his son. I don't care. I don't I just don't agree with this.
As you know, I'm more interested in making sure that he can do what he wants to do. Caleb Williams, in the end, told Wickersham on the record, I wasn't ready to nuke the city. After a pre draft visit to the Bears, Williams then believed he could be part of the process to turn the franchise around. I can do it for this team.
I'm going to the Bears. Who declined to comment on this article. Book also sheds light on Williams tumultuous rookie season in which both Eberflus and Waldron were fired.
So that is, you know, it's a lot. Hold on a minute. At times, Williams said he would just watch film alone with no instruction or guidance from the coaches. No one tells me what to watch. Caleb told his dad.
I just turn it on. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. I got to be honest with you. So this won't sit well with the, you know, players association, I imagine. And but the in case anybody is wondering if there's going to be any other fallout, Caleb Williams was kind of proven right. As.
Oh, yeah. Both guys got bounced. He didn't have confidence in who he was joining organizationally. And the organization decided we are going to draft the kid. We're not going to hire the coach that was on the sideline with him at USC. What we're going to do is we're going to stick with the defensive minded head coach and hook him up with a coordinator that's new to the. The city and new to the organization, and that's what we're going to go with. And we heard again last year in London, which was right before Caleb's best game as a pro.
He just absolutely smoked the Jaguars in that game and just destroyed him. And we heard before the game that they were just beginning to install a first 15 scripted because the team was asking for it. Stacy Dales is the one reporting this for us on our crew that the team was asking for first 15 scripted. And the the you know, the leadership of the team, the veterans went to Eberfluss and said, we need first 15 scripted. We can't just like go into the game with a bunch of preferred plays. We need to with a rookie quarterback, we need to get on the same page. We need to figure this thing out before the game specifically. And Eberfluss said, great idea. You go advocate for yourself to the offensive corner.
You talk to the OC. And we were all looking around the room going, I've never heard of that before. And then yada, yada, yada, Waldron gets bounced. Then we saw Eberfluss gets bounced, which kind of indicates what Caleb was saying. Apparently behind the scenes this whole time. And now, according to this article, just to tie it all up here, Caleb Williams is psyched to have Ben Johnson. So I guess in the long run, if Ben Johnson gets this right and Caleb becomes the Bears savior that everyone in Chicago is hoping for. Then this is all just a wild footnote and meant to be in the long run. But man, was there a ton of smoke and fire behind what we were hearing about what the Williams family was thinking about the Bears and the system in general approaching the draft. That's crazy. Right.
How about them apples? I think the only thing that maybe can save the relationship with the fans is the fact that it seems like the majority of that happened before he made that visit and the decision that he can turn it around. You know, I guess with the fans, though, TJ, is the fans weren't into the idea of the setup either.
No, that's exactly what I was thinking. I think the fans would have loved to have had Cliff Kingsbury come in. They would have loved to have had a more high flying off and seeing him playing well at the beginning and what will repair him with the fans is winning.
Right. I don't even know if there's any reparation with the fans necessary. The only reparation could be, as you know, him and his dad saying stuff about the work of the of the Players Association in this regard and sharing that.
Unless the Players Association current structure feels the same way about the CBA and then look out below the next time there is a conversation about it. But in the long run, you know, Carl and Caleb Williams Spidey sense. It's kind of properly tingling, you know what I mean, about what was going on with the organization's choice for how to listen. Polls set things up on the roster.
I think we can all agree with that, right? With the exception of the line play not being up to snuff and they boy, did they hit the heck out of that. The question is, I want to know, was Ben Johnson raising his hand last year saying, I'll come now? I don't know. And they decided, we're just going to stay put with Iberfluz.
The defense was balling out at the end of the year. He's in charge of that side. Let's get him in charge of that side. We all believe in Shane Waldron. Let's get him going.
But Caleb wasn't into that idea until I guess he showed up and he saw the facility and he's just like, I'm all in. I'll do it because it's better than the alternative of me torching the city, having my dad viewed as like LeVar Ball and fighting the system, which doesn't work. I mean, you remember Mike Williams of USC, right, Suze? You were sitting down with him back in the day as well when he was trying to fight the system.
That didn't work for him. Isn't it crazy though, his dad would be viewed as LeVar Ball and not Jack Elway or, you know. Oh, I guess this is now the reason why, I mean, it's a more, please let me just then add some more meat to that. It's just a more contemporary analogy. Yeah, I don't know if anybody will remember what Jack Elway or I guess he would be known as Archie Manning.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You know, how different would that be? But I'm not saying you, I'm saying that's how he would be. He wouldn't be looked at as Archie would be looked at as more of a meddling LeVar. Well, Archie didn't threaten to sue the system, I don't think. Maybe he did.
I don't remember 2003, 2004 as much as I do over the last couple of years. But just going into Chicago and saying, I got it, I'll make the best of it. And then, but can you imagine what he must have been thinking if he's watching film by himself? Like, I was right all along, dad. And people are worried about his fingernail polish and people are getting distracted by things that don't matter.
Yeah, sure. On top of it too, he handled his business really well for a guy who was getting his ass beat. And dealing with an interim coordinator and an interim HC because everything that he was concerned about wound up to be spot on.
And he didn't at all go in front of the media and give any hint of that. If I'm a fan, I'm liking him even more, doubling down because he stood there and he took his licks. And, you know, reading this article at the same time that you did, I was just looking at his stats.
I mean, 62.5% of his passes, his rookie year with 20 touchdown passes, six interceptions, he was sacked illegally leading 68 times. He spent a lot of time on his tush and he took those licks and he's spilling tea now. Well, I mean, to an author, no, I guess so, yeah. I mean, and I guess at the end of the day, it's just tea, which we all dig in this business right now when it gets spilled.
You know, and to use our analogy here, as I look at the tea drinker on the staff, you, the Bears like you, TJ, replenish the water in the Keurig. And they're loaded for Bear this year, right? And I think they have gotten it right. I think they may have.
It was empty back in the day. Right? Because polls knows how to generally manage unless I would love to know the back story of why they kept Iberfluz.
That I want to know. Again, I love the guy and he's good, by the way, a great hire for you in Dallas. Yeah, I was glad all this was on the offensive side of the ball and not defense.
No, I think your Dallas Cowboys defense is going to be really good. He's really good at that. Really good at that. And but man, oh, man, was he wound up being right.
He watched film by himself. That's insane. Like he's figuring out what what to do. Because, again, the backup wasn't, you know, some that is Tyson Bajan. Now, if I'm the owners, I'm thinking to myself, what am I paying for? That's what I'm thinking.
He's watching from last year. You're talking about. Well, you're the owners. You're now like, if I'm the McCaskys, I'm like, we got it right. Yeah, I was about to say this sucks. This is not good.
We're going to have to have some damage control. I know. But but you got it right. I'm done with now because you got Ben Johnson.
You got the right guy. Yeah. We're assuming. We think I'd be shocked if they don't turn it around a little bit. And that Caleb Williams doesn't have a better season this year. Yeah. Because as long as Ben Johnson can bring that line's playbook with them, I mean, man.
Oh, man. Well, they they have in terms of building the team, the roster. And they were hitting that line. They drafted well. I love Colston Loveland. You're going to love him in Chicago. And and you got a coach who can dial it up and know how to do it. And so this is all just going to be interesting footnotes.
But man, clean up on Iowa, you know, Chicago right now with the tea on the floor. Whew. And again, just to wrap it up, the fact that the kid felt this way about it still went there, then was kind of proven right. Dealt with all of this stuff, including sixty eight sacks and didn't say a word, didn't breathe an absolute ounce of this sort of you have no idea what's going on around here and what my dad and I thought about this place. And you fans, good luck. Like, he could have done that when he was finished with another interception sack marred loss in which he tried his best.
He never did it. So kudos to him. What a way to kick off our number two of this program. Eight, four, four, two or four rich number to win loss games galore. John Schneider of the Seattle Seahawks, Josh Duhamel of the Vikings fan base.
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There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash special offer. Back here on the program, my goodness, our rundown just got a little bit more packed. John Schneider of the Seahawks in hour number three and then Josh Duhamel will be in studio. Seth Wickersham is going to join us in about 15 minutes time to talk about his reporting about this. A lot of tea being spilled for his upcoming book, his forthcoming book on the Caleb Williams in Chicago.
I'm looking online right here. The one thing that everybody's latching onto more than anything is the fact that he was watching film by himself and wasn't giving any instruction as to how to watch film as a rookie in the NFL. What a failure. What an absolute unmitigated failure that is. 844204 rich number to dial. It's a what's more likely Thursday because we're not here tomorrow. Susie, I think Sarah Tiana is going to come up with a what's more likely for you guys tomorrow. She is.
She is. Chris Brockman has left some materials for you to... He did. And as I told Sarah, you start like this. Hey guys, how you doing? Well, hold on a second. We start with the drop first. Hit it. What's more likely?
Never say never, but never. Susie? Hey guys, how you doing?
Hey, what's up, Susie? I was just thinking, how happy would you be if there was a mute button for me at home? Never. It's like everything you'd ever want. Rich, if you said yes to that. No, it's not that. It's not just saying yes to it. It would be employing it.
No bueno. There'd be no safe way to employ the mute button. Rich would be so excited. Just hit the mute button.
No, you wouldn't be happy. Anyway, what's going on? Also, I have a suggestion for whoever is so bored that they're commenting about Rich taking his glasses off and on. Drinking game. If he puts them on, he could drink.
He takes them off. People would be bombed by the second hour of this program. All right, ready guys?
I can't do that. Please. What is your schedule team to go 500 or worse in September, Eagles or Chiefs? Well, I have the schedule right here. The Chiefs begin, as we all know, with a Brazil game against the Chargers in Philly at the Giants, home for Baltimore at Jacksonville. He's at first five in September.
So let me get this. Now I got to go straight to September. I don't think the Chiefs will be under 500 in September. The Eagles have a better chance of that happening. I'll take the Eagles.
My gosh, one in three. I don't think either of them will be. But if I had to choose one over the other, I'll take Philly to be under 500. Where do you see the loss? The losses for Philadelphia? I don't see them losing at home on a banner raising night to you, TJ. I think the Eagles are still a better team than Philadelphia. Than the Cowboys. I don't know, at Kansas City is tough. Home at the Rams. If Sean McVay doesn't spend the entire week challenging that defense in their face and then basically saying, we're not going to see Saquon run for 300 yards total here.
And then at Tampa, I could see them losing three in a row and people freaking out. Wow. In Philly.
Who's house indeed? The idea, though, is what's more likely. I don't think it is likely either one will be under 500. It'll be a tough stretch. 500 could be the spot. But he's asking for under 500. I'll give you that one.
All right. What's more likely? Rookie QB to start season 2-0. Cam Ward or the field? Rookie quarterback to start the season 2-0. Cam Ward or the field.
So the field. The field means will the Saints start 2-0 or the Titans start 2-0. The Titans are at Denver and home for the Rams. I mean, good luck going against that Denver defense in your first game of the National Football League. So the New Orleans Saints are home for they're home for two.
Home for Arizona and San Francisco. So I'll take the field. I'll take the field unless he thinks, you know, Chador or what? Dylan Gabriel starting for for the Browns. Name me another rookie starting quarterback that's going to start the season 2-0.
So I'll take the field. What's more likely? Second year QB to start 3-0? Caleb, Jaden, Drake, Bo. Second year quarterback to start 3-0. Caleb, Jaden Daniels, Drake, May or Bonex.
He wants me to say Drake, May. So let me see what the Patriots record is. Patriots are home for Vegas at Miami. Home for Pittsburgh. Washington is home for the Giants at Green Bay. Home for the Raiders.
All right, so he's already got a better leg up than Drake, May. Bonex is home for Tennessee at Indianapolis at the Chargers. And Caleb is home for Minnesota at Detroit. Home for Dallas.
So we're going to remove him and we're going to remove Drake, May from the equation. I'll go Jaden Daniels. I mean, come on now. Come on.
I'm going to take the unicorn. It was funny, yesterday on NFL Network's schedule release show, they had a question about the international games. Who would you want to sit next to on a plane for an international flight, right? And they gave you two options where you had an empty seat and then there was a star of the NFL. Or in the case of it was Mike Tomlin in one seat, Jim Harbaugh in the middle seat. You'd have the window seat.
Michael Robinson chose that one first. The one that I said absolutely not I wasn't going to do was the aisle seat next to Justin Jefferson, even though I love him, and Tyreek Hill to his right in the aisle in the window seat. And I would be in the aisle because in front of me was Miles Garrett. And I could not have him recline into my chair. Nor do I want two people asking me to get up to go to the bathroom throughout the entire flight.
Plus the one in the seat in between Miles Garrett and Chris Jones is available. Could you imagine you wouldn't get the armrest at all? And what happened if they reached up to your seat and used it to stand up? You'd lose your mind.
You know that's my biggest pet peeve of them all. I chose the aisle seat, even though I'm a window guy, next to Jaden Daniels because when there's turbulence, you turn to him and he's probably like, We're cool. We're calm under pressure. We're going to be okay. We're cool.
Jaden Daniels, what's next? How's that for my answer? It was long, but I liked it. But did you get on first before they all got on? Did you put your bag up? I was in zone one.
Well, I mean, this whole thing is window suits because he's 1A. And it was long. It was long. But notice I didn't take my glasses on and off at all. Because you didn't want to see Miles' seat coming back at you. Could you imagine? He would lose his mind.
Oh, I would lose my vision. Yeah. He's not a small guy.
I'm a locker room all at once. Right? All right, guys. What's more likely? Who's going to have more wins in September? The Cowboys.
Oh, my God. Aaron Rodgers or his two former teams combined. Two former teams combined? He's basically saying, Who will have more wins in September? The Steelers or the Jets and Packers combined?
That's a simple question. And it's obviously it's the Jets and the Packers combined. Come on, man. You're going to give me two teams against one. And this guy's not even going to be.
He's throwing two right now. That guy's not even on the team yet. Right.
What else? Is he going to be on the team, Rich? Move on.
Of course, he will be. Okay. Moveon.com. All right, guys. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Come on.
Moveon.com. What's that? I don't know. Is that a new sponsor? I have no idea. This segment brought to you by... What else?
What's more likely? The Cowboys? Yes. TJ, go 2-0 in holiday games or the Vikings go 2-0 overseas? How? How?
How? So the Vikings are in holiday games, home for Kansas City and at Washington. And the Vikings in their back to back games abroad are going to be, did I say something other than Cowboys?
I'm sorry. The Vikings back to back games abroad or Pittsburgh and Cleveland. I'll take the Vikings.
Of course you will. Come on, man. Home for the Chiefs and at the Washington commanders? 2-0, that would be pretty great on Thanksgiving and Christmas. By the way, and I will say this before we get to one more over there, that the last team to play on both Thanksgiving and Christmas Day and the home opener and the kickoff game. Last team to play kickoff game, Thanksgiving and Christmas, the 2011 Packers. And before that, the 2006 Miami Dolphins and nobody else has done that.
That's what the Cowboys are going to do this year. You got one more over there? We have one more.
I did not notice. Of course, we're going to play you the Cooper Drop. Coopy. Oh my goodness. One more time, Mike. That's great.
I do love it. One more. I did not notice. Cooper Drop. I did not know this. Coopy. Thomas sent me a picture of the two of us. I saw it. And I look like a little fusion.
I know he's 6'1 now. What else you got? One more. NBA champion to force a game seven, Rich.
Celtics or Nuggets? Oh, stop. I got it. Forget it.
What do you think, Rich? Is Jalen Brunson going to get five fouls in one quarter in game six? Is he going to enter the second half of game six in Madison Square Garden with zero fouls and exit the third quarter with five fouls?
Have you ever heard of a star player getting five fouls in a game? What if that had happened to Brockman's Tatum or Brown and it was Scott Foster on the court and everybody say he's there to extend a series? What would he do with this information? What would happen if Josh Hart grabbed Jalen Brown's crown jewels like Jalen Brown did to Josh Hart in game five? What if Brockman would say, did you see this? Did you see that happen last night? I did. Josh Hart's wife commented on Twitter about it. There's so many things I want to joke about. Can I ask you a question? She tweeted out.
She tweeted out a retweet of the video of it, and all she tweeted out was weird. There it is. You go, Shannon.
You keep hitting send on this stuff. That's where you play the Arby's drop. He left this with my wife to trigger me, and I have been triggered. I'll take the nuggets, mass hole. It's funny that you would say nuggets after that, too, though. I used the M in front of that word. Wow. Yeah.
I used the M in front of that word. You okay over there? I'm okay.
You have too much coffee? Five fouls for Jalen Brunson in the third quarter. Oh, okay. I just want to see a game six now, huh?
Game six had to happen. Give me a break. All right. Thank you for that to What's More Likely. I appreciate it. You're welcome.
Thank you. Let's take a break. Oh, there's one more. Zef Wickersham is going to join us next. Boy, did he spill some tea in his upcoming book about what's going on or what went on in Chicago. That's coming up.
When we got a break, here's Rich Ackerman with a sports update. This episode is brought to you by Factor. Optimize your nutrition this year with Factor, America's number one ready to eat meal service. Factor's fresh, never frozen meals are dietitian approved, ready to eat in just two minutes. Choose from 40 weekly options across eight dietary preferences like Calorie Smart, Protein Plus, and Keto. Eat smarter at factormeals.com slash listen50 and use code listen50 for 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Factormeals.com slash listen50.
Code listen50. Teas and C's apply. All right. Back here on the Rich Eisen Show, Zef Wickersham about to join us and we'll help him clean up all the tea on the floor. He'll be joining us in a second. Let's go to the phone lines. Win loss games can be done on the Roku channel as well.
Why not? Jacob in Toledo, Ohio is on the phone line right now. I guess he wants to do the win loss for the Ben Johnson coach, Chicago Bears, right, Jacob?
Is that correct? Yes, sir. What's up, Rich? How are you? I'm TJ. It's my first time saying hi to you and you know I got to give Del Tufo a mess over there for being the Yankee flopper.
Okay. Yankee flopper instead of the Yankee clipper, you're the Yankee flopper. I like it, Jacob. Oh my goodness. The Yankee flopper.
You're lucky I like it. And you always say, Rich, we don't need Juan Soto. We don't need Juan Soto. You can have him, TJ. You can have him. Thank you, Jacob. I'll take him.
Paul Goldschmidt, who is a fraction of the cost, has better numbers than Juan Soto. Sure. Better. He is just breaking. And look at what Judge is doing. Look at what Judge is doing. I will look at what Judge is doing. He looks great. And I love looking at it. All right.
Let's give him some music here. And look up in the air to see where the Mets are. It's okay. You're not wrong.
No, it's not. It's not a Mets town, sir. It's a Yankee town. Jacob, you're in Toledo. I've been in New York, it's a Yankee town, baby. All right, Jacob. You're a Bears fan in Toledo, Ohio.
He's a Mudhens fan, Rich. Well, I grew up in Chicago. Okay, very good. I discussed that before I grew up in Chicago. You and the Pope.
Did the Yankees piss family off, so. Okay, here we go. First up, Chicago Bears win-loss game, the Monday night home opener for Ben Johnson against the Vikings.
I'm going to have to say a loss on that one. Okay. And then at the Lions. At the Lions? Yes, sir. Ooh.
Ooh. I think we're going to win that. I think Ben Johnson is going to pull some hat tricks.
Or he'll use the time out at the end. Home for the Cowboys. Hopefully this time. Home for the Cowboys. Home for the Cowboys.
Sorry, KJ. We're going to beat y'all. Two and one at the Raiders. I don't win. Three and one off the bye at the commanders on a Monday night.
Ooh. We'll probably lose that. If that game ends in a Hail Mary, that would be amazing. Three and two, home for the Saints. That's a win.
Hopefully the player is paying attention this time out there. Four and two at the Ravens. Ravens.
Ooh. That's a loss. Four and three at the Bengals. That's a win. Five and three, home for the Giants.
Win. Six and three at the Vikings. We're going to win that one. Seven and three, home for the Steelers. We'll probably lose that one. Seven and four at the Eagles on the day after Thanksgiving. Yeah, we'll probably lose that one. Seven and five at the Packers.
No. I always got to say the Bears. Eight and five, home for the Browns. Ooh, now we'll win that. Nine and five, home for the Packers. Now we got to win that too. Ten and five at the Niners. We'll probably lose that. Ten and six, home for the Lions.
We'll probably lose that one. Okay. Ten and seven, Jacob and Toledo. Thank you so much. Appreciate the nickname for Del Tufo, the Yankee Flopper. Man, I don't appreciate it, but that's a space.
Nine and seven, Jacob and Toledo. Okay. Wow. I love the win-loss games. It's one of the best things we do. It's so much fun. Because when they're wrong, it's like, it's okay when they're right people are like, see, I told you.
Right? It's great. Back here on the Rich Eisen Show, thank you for sending me a text, sir, in the middle of a commercial break.
So I was well aware of what was out there on ESPN.com in advance of this man's book, American Kings, a biography of the quarterback that's coming out later on this year. Seth Wickersham back here on the Rich Eisen Show. Good to see you, Seth.
How are you? Listen, man, I'm great, but I don't know. It's a big act to follow Jacob and Toledo.
Thank you, Jess. We might have to push this like an hour. It's okay. I don't know.
I don't know if I can quite top him. Well, man, what just got put out there in advance of your book and your conversations with the Williams family, Carl and Caleb, how close did it come to Caleb Williams truly trying to force his way not to be drafted by the Chicago Bears, Seth? I don't think it was that close, but it was one of those things that was definitely pondered. And you know, it had been out in the ether in the months leading up to the draft.
And what I tried to do was just add some clarity and some detail to it where I could. You know, look, I think that like Carl has been very clear publicly about his opinions of the NFL draft process and the fact that the worst team drafts the best player. And he was looking for ways around it because he saw a system where his son was locked into the team that drafted him, like all number one picks are for basically eight years. And so he was trying to find a way around it. And he, you know, met with people like Marvin Demoff and Archie Manning and lawyers and people like that, all trying to find loopholes around the draft.
And at one point they even consider joining the United Football League if it would give him a chance to be an unrestricted free agent in 2025. Ultimately, none of those really were things that he wanted to do at the combine. Caleb obviously met with the Bears. He also met with Kevin O'Connell of the Vikings and they hit it off.
And I have a lot of stuff in the book from Kevin about how he coaches quarterbacks and how it's rooted in his autobiography. And they just really took to each other. And at one point, Caleb said, you know, I got to go to the Bears and his dad was like, let's try it. But like they both knew that getting traded to a divisional rival was almost a nonstarter around the time of Caleb's pro day. Ryan pulls the GM of the bear said, we're drafting you no matter what. Remember, they didn't even look at quarterbacks like Jayden Daniels. They were all in on Caleb. And so that left one option, the Jack and John Elway option of basically nuking a city and making a situation untenable. And while I think Carl would have been willing to do it and was willing to take bullets for his son, it wasn't something that Caleb wanted to do.
And as he told me when we discussed it, he said, I wasn't ready to nuke Chicago. And that all makes sense, everything from a dad wanting to do well by his son to loving Kevin O'Connell. I mean, anybody who talks football and offense and quarterbacking with him gets it right away.
And obviously Caleb got it. And all the way through to having a sense of the setup for him on the coaching side wasn't really to his liking or there could be something up. So in the limited time I have with you here, Seth, what did happen? Any reporting at all on the Bears' choice to stick with Eberflus or that's not part of your book at all? Did the Williams family have any insight on why, you know, Cliff Kingsbury wasn't hired there and they stuck with Eberflus and Waldron was the guy? Anything from that end?
Yeah. I mean, a lot of good coaches could have been hired. You know, and I think that Caleb had, was out, was wondering out loud whether he could do it with Shane Waldron. And I think that when Shane was brought in, I think that the Williams camp was kind of underwhelmed by that choice.
Obviously it didn't go well. Shane didn't last the year, neither did Eberflus and look, the Bears haven't had a great history when it comes to quarterbacks. We know that they haven't drafted a star since Jim McMahon that was in the eighties and even recent guys like Justin Fields and Mitch Trubisky hadn't panned out.
And so when you look at the organizational stability, the offensive expertise and performance that was under Matt Eberflus and just some other issues like, you know, the stadium uncertainty, that type of thing, this is what led them to, to wonder out loud about that. And again, in the months leading up to the draft, Carl Williams told me, Chicago is where quarterbacks go to die. And what the thing that I think that is jumping out at everybody right now, Seth Wickersham of ESPN in advance of his book coming out on American Kings, right?
Did I get that right? It's coming out on, there it is, a biography of the quarterback, Seth Wickersham, soon to be where, I guess you can pre-order it right now, I'd imagine, great. Everyone's kind of jumping at what you learned about what the Bears were doing with Caleb last year. Did he really say that they didn't give him any sense on how to watch film and he watched it by himself?
Seth? Yeah, it was one of those things that when I discussed it with Caleb, we brought up Alex Smith because Alex Smith, you know, has talked a lot about that in San Francisco, how he would just watch film by himself and no one had taught him how to watch film, how you start with certain positions and move backwards from there. And there were similarities with Caleb and at times he would, he would just watch film by himself with little direction. And you know, I want to make one thing clear is that like ultimately all of this stuff was Caleb's decision and he did visit the Bears after his pro day and he came back and he told, you know, everybody around him that like, I can do it in Chicago, I'm going to be a Bear. And I think that, you know, his heart is in it trying to figure out a way to turn the Bears into a winner. Some of my reporting touches on some of the concerns that happened ahead of time, but you know, look, as the season went on, I mean, it was a huge validation for the way that Carl Williams saw this process unfolding. Not that I think he's happy about that, but you know, those were his fears and he wanted his son to end up at a team that had, you know, the type of quarterback guru that, you know, can be a partnership that lasts the duration of a career. And you know, already Caleb is going to be on you know, his, his third, you know, offensive play caller and second head coach entering his second year. But I think, you know, the general sense is that, that he does appear to be in a position of having that attached at the hip career play caller and career maker in Ben Johnson. At least that is the, that is the sense that everyone has certainly in hope in Chicago that he is going to be that guy. That said, I still can't believe that a kid was let to watch film by himself or not really given too many, you know, parameters on how to, how to be a film watcher or what to look for that he, he said he would turn the film on by himself to figure out what to watch Seth.
Yeah. And, you know, again, this has happened before, you know, quarterbacks do talk about it. It's it's one of those things about the NFL that we can't really believe that takes place, but it does. And it's, again, it's one of the reasons why people like Carl Williams were so concerned about where his son ended up and wanted to do everything that they could to try to give him an opportunity to have some agency over where he ended up, obviously that didn't end up happening, but that's why, and, you know, people can argue with the tactics or whatever it might be, but it's hard to argue with the logic behind it, especially when you see a season play out, like it did last year.
I mean, he was sacked 68 times. I mean, it's ridiculous. It is that, um, okay. So what do you think the fallout of this part of your book is going to be the, the knowing the NFL as well as you do players association hearing the way that, uh, their collective bargaining work has been evaluated by, by, uh, a star players, um, father who is clearly a Sherpa for him, who by the way, couldn't have been more, you know, spot on about his concerns based on everything.
What do you think? Or is that one thing? Not much.
I have no idea. You know, this happens a lot. Like I said, I mean, you know, I write a lot about, you know, quarterback dads in the book and, you know, they've become kind of a punchline similar to like these more Marinovich types, but there's a reason behind it. And that's because this is the most valuable position in sports. It's the most mysterious position in sports and there are no sure things. And it relies on luck a lot more than anybody wants to admit.
And I think that, you know, that's part of what we saw play out. Think about, you know, Caleb goes to Chicago, Jayden Daniels goes to Washington. He goes to a terrific offensive play caller in the Kingsbury facility to potentially, you know, absolutely. You know, and they have Dan Quinn, who's a veteran head coach and he knows how to run an operation and look at how well Jayden did. Look at Bo Nix. I get into, in the book, into some of the scouting behind Bo Nix, some really fascinating things as to how the Broncos landed on him.
Look at how well he did with someone who knows how to talk quarterback and speak quarterback and call an offense. And it's not really unreasonable, but that's what they wanted. Seth, thanks for the time, man. Short notice. And I appreciate the, the text and the one you also sent me earlier this week, greatly appreciate it. You're the man. Look for more of my calls.
Looking forward to it, man. Thank you. You got it. That's Seth Wickersham, ESPN senior writer. And of course you can pre-order his book, American Kings, about quarterbacks right now. That's Seth Wickersham here. The GM of the Seattle Seahawks, John Schneider and Josh Duhamel coming up, our three.
Still here on the Roku channel. What a convo. I mean, and how about him saying it happens? Alex Smith had the same thing happen to him his rookie season. And again, I don't mean to, to paint with a broad brush here, but his coach was Mike Nolan, who was a defensive side of the ball guy. And listen, Dan Quinn is a defensive side of the ball guy and Jayden Daniels was completely set up in the best possible way.
And we had Dan Quinn on yesterday, these days all merged together or two days ago, right? There's no question about his abilities to lead a franchise and what's the right thing to do. And so you can't just paint with a broad brush. Pete Carroll's from the defensive side of the ball, although Shane Waldron did come from Pete Carroll. And I'm not just saying Waldron can't do the job, but it's just stunning how it can happen in the NFL. I mean, coaches make sure that that other side of the ball, they had the best guy there to take care of that side. Well, and Belichick is a defensive minded guy slash special teams guy who... Always has hired good offensive guys though, Rich. Right. Which helps. Well, Charlie Weiss and Josh McDaniels and if Brockman was here, I'm sure he would bark out the name of Matt Patricia just because he just feels he got out there and Joe Judge, right?
But there's no cookie cutter way to do it. Just to say, well, I've always said if I'm an owner in the NFL, I would want to hire an offensive minded guy because if you're attaching that guy to your quarterback, that's going to be your head coach forevermore. If you do it the other way around, the offensive coordinator eventually is going to be hired somewhere else to be that coach for another franchise. Well, especially if you have a rookie like that, especially if you're investing so much money in a quarterback, why wouldn't you want to have somebody in there? But as you said, that's what Pete's so good at. We saw it firsthand and that's what the Raiders are doing right now is to bring him in and change the culture. That's what he did with Russ in Seattle, although everybody talks about the OC there and the Malcolm Butler game is a four letter word, but you know, it's just stunning to me. And now you're seeing folks like Orlovsky online basically say, now his tape and his film makes sense because if he wasn't giving any idea on how to watch film, then what I'm seeing on film makes sense. John Schneider coming up.
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