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August 23, 2014 12:30 pm
Jesus many losing hand. One feels more like a losing battle when something rotten by all reports he took his own life. Later on we find out in the back story that he suffered from mental illness. Many are saying depression for many years of his life. Also, from alcoholism and substance abuse.
So were we go with that today on the masculine journey will come in to this week's it installments of the masculine journey radio show on Dennis Bredon alongside me or Sam main Sam good to see you today, but it's good to be here.
Thank you. Appreciate and we have a special guest actually yeah will calling the special guest. He hasn't been with us in a while. Our brother and our friend Todd Clark. It's great to have you with us this afternoon taught is great to be with you guys agree to be with other guys and the studios will it's my honor to be here yes sitting in the booth as well or Alan Robbie and Jenny were glad to have you here with this. So what is it look like what is depression look like and how do we deal with it at why did we want to talk about Robin Williams. Today we said last week that we were in a follow-up on this topic and speak more to it.
Were also going to address how that looks like in the Christian community were going to ask Todd a lot of questions this afternoon. We want to tell folks in case you never said it before that Todd is also the director of behavioral health at Nevada health headquarters here in North Carolina so he brings to our discussion. A lot of a lot of great experience and knowledge on the topic of mental illness yeah it's it's a topic that one out of four Americans struggle with four Americans have mental illness and one of four Americans will attempt suicide at some point in their life. That's the statistics the yeah and in it can be a fatal problem, as is the story of Robin Williams has shown us so yeah it's an important topic and it's something that we either struggle with all we know someone who struggles with so I'm glad you guys decide to talk about it. I think it's something that gets retitled earlier that gets diagnosed with a lot of things to get lumped in with depression if you if you are asking a what is depression the unit with your experience with her new been taught how would you answer that that might be different than the general public sure. And yet, let me start by saying first am not speaking on behalf of no one help here on my own and paid my own way and everything so very much. Love the work that I do eat. We see a lot of people get better so I'm very blessed to have the position I have to create the services to help folks here in that situation yet. The word depression is not in the Scripture you know that is a modern term that we came up with in the Scripture you you'll hear about having a broken spirit or being a groaning in my heart or being troubled or morning or my or accountants that has fallen or having a heavy heart is are all descriptions of sadness and despair. So what is depression enough that if the Scripture doesn't talk about it and what is it. Is it just a modern invention of something or is it something that Scripture really covers so that's a great question and I think I have a more restrictive definition of what clinical depression is versus everything else and them probably somewhat up in a nutshell like this a true clinical depression is a neurological meaning a brain chemistry issue despair grieving sadness, hopelessness that is not clinical depression. Sometimes when someone is sad, was held at present, that person is depressed know their sad is not just having the blues that's rather having life circumstances because you experience sadness, that's right.
We all have emotions and we all have sadness to me. We would be robotic if we didn't know that's normal actually to be sad over something that you've lost her some change in my life that I didn't like what clinical depression is is it's actually a medical problem.
There is a brain chemistry issue that happens and there's things that happen in the body. Because of that, but one of the other side effects is an extreme difficulty with sadness. You know like princes, we were talking before the show whenever someone has a clinical depression, the actual chemical messengers in their brain that sends messages to their muscles that fill their muscles to move slows down almost completely that's that's what is going on neurologically.
So when you have a depressed person who's in bed a bit in bed for three days straight or not eating or not coming out there light is off the others their shades are drawn. It's not because they're lazy is because the clinical depression has flipped the switch where their body. Actually, the chemical messengers that tell their muscles to move cannot move so they need medication to treat that clinical depression. There's also an emotional side effect, which is an extreme sadness and there are all kinds of things that can trigger that maybe will get more into that later. But you do all the medication does is help to get the brain chemistry back in order so that the person can have the energy they need to go out and deal with their emotions and the stressors that are going on.
Would you say that it's compounded by the fact that we all get wounded along the way and so we have these situations ever but have known once I get down to it has some wounds right on the way to go through life and that causes us to react sometimes differently known. It can be labeled a lot of different things cannot be met. Woundedness could be the core but it can manifest in be called something else right yet that woundedness creates all kinds of emotions NSU note, anxiety, depression, feelings of worthlessness and all of that whether or not it turns into a clinical depression that needs medication depends on the person's genetics really depends on how susceptible they are to it's, like diabetes, you know you don't decide to have diabetes is determined physiologically ahead of time so and then you take medication to treat the diabetes the same thing as a clinical depression if it turns in other several things that can trigger a clinical depression but what we know is the person who has it, they are more susceptible to it physiologically than others, and so they need the medication to help them stabilize getting back to the issue of wound Sam but we wanted to do a couple Robin Williams clips today. There are so many that we could choose from so many great clips from his movies. But we have one in particular to start off with that I think addresses the issue of woundedness does it. It's from a moving would use this clip in a passage from Goodwill hunting and in this movie. Robin Williams is actually playing the counselor that Matt Damon's been sent to because he is acting out out of some ends up in brokenness and is like some woundedness and so he's there to see him about why he's acting out the way he is. This wasn't necessarily what you'd say stirred stereotypical depression, but it could've been classified several different things and just want to listen to how this plays out his family. I say if you had any experience with the counseling committee is a experience with the father was an alcoholic Mohammed Whalen somebody so I'm provoking so when you left my mother always rings is a wrenches to say choose first of so now it is like. Will has an attachment disorder is all that stuff.
Abandonment is your fault is not your fault.
Now it's not their fault.
So how we classify that he obviously had some wounds going back to his childhood that had led up to some of the issues he was having in his life and just broke down Brian and the psychiatrist office the character the yeah you know the challenge for a psychiatrist is in of the mind and the body are connected so the psychiatrist is ended, the license counselor is trying to figure out is this a neurologically generated issue, or is this just a normal emotional state that is pervasive and has been for a while. This person needs some better coping skills to manage. That's when they're trying to figure out with Matt Damon. I think there is a great example. There of how men deal with depression or hat.
What do they do when they're depressed you can come out in a lot of different ways. The one universal trait with men is that we try to hide it. Women don't try to hide it is nice there better about communicating about we try to hide it through withdrawing. We try to hide it through anger. What sounds when men are angry sometimes they're depressed about something. What you look at me check you a good example oral or we get very active thinking I'll just push through it so I start getting busier but you know sometimes that the core issue here depression. Even though we we mask it with things as listener. Clifford and I was to have all heard it many many many times just how many times he had to tell them it wasn't his fault. So that that woundedness right in the end there is a spiritual element to all that, but that's not mess that's not the same as clinical depression, that's rail a lot of times Christians good Christians bad Christians on a later segment all of those sides of that right. They well-meaning Christians really. I'm trying to say will classify everything is a spiritual issue right and everything is not as it is not. I think of the parable. When Jesus walked by the man who was paralyzed as disciples came to him and said he's paralyzed. So who send him or his mom is obviously this is generational sin and its manifesting up realization would Jesus say neither one. It's just a physiological issue and is the same thing with clinical depression doesn't mean they do anything wrong doesn't mean they're being spiritually punished. It just means that that part of their body is not functioning properly and they need to get a curriculum medicine so that then they can go out and manage the stressors the emotions the spiritual life that they need.
I think that one of the things we want to investigate and talk a little bit about when we come back probably will be how it's diagnosed and whether or not it gets overdiagnosed sometimes by medical professionals listening to the masculine journey radio show.
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Great song by the group REM from 1992 there album automatic for the people. Sam picked out the song is actually my favorite groups in the song that has some special meaning to me because it time when I was going to some really rough times it spoke to me on the guitarist Peter Brock actually said that one time when asked about it they initially written it for teenagers but he said when you're consciously directing it to someone who hasn't been the college years younger hasn't had that much schooling that you tend to be more direct about what you're saying and he said in that regard, the words of this song has carried over work for a lot of different age groups and you hear the message in that which I think is very very true so I think if you'd asked somebody that if you listen to that song is okay if you just had one word you could say what it's about. They might say depression. Yeah right you not to give into but does we are talking to my segment. That's not clinical depression but is talk about their correct my grieving, sadness, loss down in we were we were saying before winter break that we were going to proceed. This aspect of it a little bit further how you diagnose depression. How's that diagnosed today and is it overdiagnosed in the case of Robin Williams. Was it correct that he was actually struggling with depression. Yeah, that's a great question in that there is no lab test yet to to see or genetic in no imprint to see whether or not you have depression, yet the decant.
It has to be a conversation with a professional because we don't understand everything about it yet but what we do know is that there are certain signs and symptoms of where it's probable that is a neurological issue rather than just a situational or emotional, so it takes sitting down with a professional. Your psychiatrist or licensed counselor to say here's was going on with me. Here's how long it's been going on and I'll ask a lot of questions and they'll say you know what with this with these types of symptoms which is usually complete lack of energy, lack of appetite, not able to get up and do interferes with most everything else in your life. Folks with clinical depression are not holding down jobs and doing lots of stuff. Is it possible to have Monday morning depression only after the Colts yes Sunday is a cultural like us with the questions and you know why are doctors you pretty quick to prescribe yeah you know me you go in and ask if you handle questions and not been in some situations in life and the doctor said we need to be on this for a while, right right and so why would they do that yeah I think they're eating our positions. Have a tough spot to be in because if they don't treat it a grade if they don't treat anything aggressively and something bad happens to their patient.
Whether it's a medical or psychiatric issue than there to be held liable. So they're going to go with kind of you know, even though they really should be going with the least restrictive treatment. First, they're going to go with what they think might help. Most of what's going on, even if it's even if it's not what the person needs fully and I should speak for all psychiatrist but it's kind like well I don't know it's neurological or not, but I'm going to give this antidepressant temporarily to see if it makes a difference and then will back it off and see if that makes a difference in energy so that gives them time to talk and get to know him and find out more the story and then make determination maybe differently later.
That's right yet now we talked earlier that if we wanted to deal with personal experience at all that we might get into that a little bit odd as you work as you talking about that I have some personal experience with that. Going to doctors being diagnosed with depression, taking medication, and minimum speak to you directly for a minute choosing not to take medication because I thought I could get over it myself. It's a tough process to go through.
It's a process and Todd and I talked about this before that.
It's that we have to be patient about one of the things I want to ask about though is most of the men I assume there listening to us today are Christians in his Christian man. I think we sometimes have a particular challenge with acceptance of this could be just a real illness for me whether rather than one, just I'm not close enough to God. I'm having a fall away from God and that's one not feeling well and the circumstances treat that a little bit and I see this in the office a lot where men and in women but especially men tend to think I'm going to pray my way out of this young man. God can handle it, and certainly not when I'm asked the question as a behavior health professional should I pray about my depression. Is that what I should do. I always respond this way. Well let me ask me ask you this.
Should you pray about an abscessed tooth will, of course, you should because her sister, pray about everything, but you should say the prayer on the way to the dentist office God gave us the dentist that the science of dentistry sound biology and medicine to help us and so they're out. You know, we don't understand everything about all of those fields but we do know about depression is that it can be neurologically based and just like an abscessed tooth coming at you know, can God come down and perform a miracle in clear that all up and have it tied up in a bow.
Yet he could.
I don't I've never seen that with an abscessed tooth on the same he can't but the same way with the clinical depression. It is neurologically based and there is medication with and by the way whether that medication is a traditional medicine or an alternative medicine.
I'm not just pushing pharmaceuticals here it whatever is needed to help the brain chemistry get back in order is what we need to be open to doing and then after that happens, then you and God walk down the path to find out where the stressors in my life and the emotional unmanageability that my faith can help me through this in their allotted times of the symptoms can look the same to some degree the item. If you're going to.
I know for me and I can speak personally if I'm living in a situation where I don't feel like I'm aligning with my values right now. I'm going to behave in a different way. That may be depression or maybe anger may be lots of things and for that that's not clinical depression. That's going in dealing with that is a separate issue, but does not kind to cloud the waters a little bit winners. All these things can kinda look the same.
Does but you know when it's not a clinical depression. It's usually more temporary clinical depression is underlying and pervasive. You know, it usually lasts a lot longer than the that the temporary nature of emotions if that makes sense. Okay, we have another clip from Robin Robin Williams movie that we want to get into a before we wrap up the show today at San we set us up for that. Yeah it's it's from the movie dead poets Society and in this Robin Williams plays a teacher and he's talking to his students who were there to get an education are in this class that they think there's no real value. It's poetry is really talking to him about life and I want you to listen to what he says here and then it just really soak up the words and ideas can change the world.
Mr. Pitts I like 19th-century literature has nothing to do with going to business school, medical school for you left. We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. Please read and write poetry because we are members of the human race in the human race is filled with passion, medicine, blog, business, engineering, seasonal pursuits necessary to sustain life. Poetry, romance, love easily stay alive for open Whitman on me old life of the questions of these recurring of the endless trains of the faithless of cities filled with the foolish good admitting he's only old life. Answer here. Life exists and powerful play goes on and you contribute powerful play goes on and you may contribute first University universe be Sam?
I don't know yet what both these groups played for me. It spoke a little bit to. There's lots of things that you need to go look at to find a life that your heart really wants.
So those we know you people deny their wounds and all that but one single pass on that I got work on in the cycle and speaks to passions friends are finding your God-given passions doing all those things. If you're clinically depressed to fix it is that it's not because it it wouldn't fix it anymore than it with fixed diabetes is still a medical issue that needs to be addressed medically and would come back to that a couple times.
I really want people to hear that it's great knowing that ensued when guys turn other things were close comforters can speak to that for second whether we do that yeah in other words, I may be feeling something that I'm not used to feeling and it could be it in an underlying clinical depression, but so if I'm turning to other false comforters. You know that I'm used to going to do it. It can be have a structures of behaving. It can be, you know, whatever it is that I find comfort in. That's not that's only going to be a temporary thing you know it's not really gonna have to ask myself, my really being honest about what's going on and that's where I think we turn to someone in our life that we trust to say a this is going on with me. It's been going on for a while and I need your feedback on this. Yeah, that's we need friends to step up to see that in someone else and say hey you may want to go get this checked out the others actually were trended the mental health field is creating what were now calling mental health first aid where were trying to teach folks out in the community to do that first initial response to help folks who look like they may be having emotional disturbance, like for instance you know before CPR came on board, and the general public knew about it. You had to send thereby to the hospital to get there to start breathing when no one knew what today will try to do it so that's kind how we can see yourself as mental health first date helpers who love Christ, who love people and want to direct him to the right, you know, to the right resource. Great strides are being made. It sounds like Todd will guys.
I feel like we've only scratched the surface. Here we could do that we can really talk about this a lot more but bottom line is this is real. These are real illnesses were talking about. So if you're Christian out there you shall check out if you feel like that may be the case.
We were glad you listened to the masculine journey radio show today. We let you go online and listen to podcasts walk a resident of Expert Robbie Gilmore informed me that I had the wrong dates. It is September 5 through the seventh just can't go online to the masculine journey radio.org and check us out there. We have all the information on the camp until next week. May God be with you