Redemption Through Pain

This is Chris Hughes with the Christian Perspective Podcast with Chris Hughes, where we encourage our listeners to engage the culture with Jesus Christ. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds, so enjoy it, share it. But most of all, thank you for listening to the Truth Podcast Network.

This is the Truth Network. The heart of every man craves a great adventure, but life doesn't usually feel that way. Jesus speaks of narrow gates and wide roads, but the masculine journey is filled with many twists and turns.

So how do we keep from losing heart while trying to find the good way when life feels more like a losing battle than something worth dying for? Grab your gear and come on a quest with your band of brothers who will serve as the guides in what we call the masculine journey. The masculine journey starts here now. Darrell Bock Oh, we are delighted that you are listening today on what I know, but Sam's not there to tell you, but he is here to tell me that it's something Eve. Jim, it's something Eve.

Something, something, ah. Jim Green It's July the 3rd. Darrell Bock There you go. It is my daughter Mariah's birthday Eve, because she is in fact Miss Independence.

I'm telling you that. Darrell Bock But actually, Independence Eve, we actually have sort of a topic along these lines, don't we, Jim? Jim Green The topic today is painful, and it is redemption through pain, and that was something that hit me last week, and I offered it up, and this might be the last show I ever get to lead, because I had really struck, painful for me was finding a clip, and I almost had one from Born on the 4th of July, but it just wouldn't fly. Darrell Bock Well, but the concept is still there, that if it had not been for the pain of what the British brought on the colonists, and them not leaning into that pain and wanting to do something about it, and then we would never form the country. The Declaration of Independence wouldn't have been signed.

The Broadway play Hamilton would have never been a hit. My granddaughter has listened to watch that play on whatever, on Disney, like over 27 times, and she can tell you more about the early history than you can possibly imagine of what the colonists went through. So with that in mind, Jim, you have a clip. Jim White I do have a clip, and we are going to The Rock for the beginning, and The Rock is going to be talking about Rock. This is from a totally awful movie.

I'm not even going to give you the name of it, but this is a character who has, because of cocaine addiction, he got in trouble with the law, got arrested, went to jail, came out, couldn't get a job at a really difficult time, and this is where he goes with that. Know why habit rhymes with rabbit? Because your whole life disappears down a bunny hole.

While you grow long sensitive ears to better hear the sound of sirens coming for you. Lucky for me, I got saved. Saving all God's creatures was my special mission. No, the Son of God knew how to just say no.

I guess you could say he's my role model. In this movie, he goes from bad to worse, but he did find Jesus in jail, and all the pain that we go through is nothing compared to the pain that brought our redemption, but tonight we are going to both talk about Jesus's pain and what he went through on our behalf, but more about how we deal with pain and where we need to take it. Yeah, and in our discussion prior to the show, we talked about, wow, there's a lot of different ways that pain can come on you, like in the 16th Psalm, I think it's a beautiful way that it says, that King David put it, that the sorrows of those who chase after other gods will be multiplied. In other words, God so loves you that he allows you this pain in order to bring you to the point where you can't take it anymore and you look for something in order to get some resolution, which is to push into that pain and to get it, but that's self-inflicted, but it isn't always that way, as it seems.

No, I mean, there's lots of things that kind of come at you over the years. I mean, a lot of my pain has been self-inflicted, but there's also been decisions that others have made, absent of my input, that causes pain to me as well. You know, and I think that's everybody's story that, you know, the world throws things at you that's very painful. The people in your life through your loved ones cause you pain. You know, you can't be in a relationship with having some level of pain involved at some point.

You know, it's part of that whole growing process. And so, yeah, there's an abundance of pain out there to sort through. When we talked last, I remember last week, Jim saying something about him being condemning of his wife because of their love. They're so close or so tight, right?

You get this great relationship. And what happens is the littlest thing then can be condemning, you know, from someone you love. And I think that's where a lot of our stories are, is where is the pain that I'm causing in loved ones or loved ones are causing in me because we're so close or so tight that you sometimes feel like, oh, you can say things or do things when really know that it's not comfortable to go there and say those things. And then we try to hide it so it doesn't bother us. And then people continue to pick at that and just keep opening that scab again. And sometimes it becomes where you just yell and scream and you let all your pain out.

And that's not what we want. We want you to be able to talk openly and honestly with those discussions so that you can work through that pain that's starting there before it becomes big because that's my specialty. I let the little things become big things.

Darrell Bock So my friend Mike Zwick, as he was doing a show, I heard him do this and it was so good. I think it fits his topic so well because he's talking about Philippians 3 10. And when you hear the beginning of this verse, you're like, yeah, I'm in, I'm in. Because it says that I may know him, right? Who doesn't want to know him? Who doesn't want to know Jesus and the power of his resurrection? I'm in, I'm in. And the fellowship of his sufferings. Oops.

I see the hands start to slip down in the audience. Being conformed to his death. What? You know, in other words, wow, there's a lot in that verse, Jim. And like, really, there is.

And going back to this being the eve of July the fourth, we are truly blessed in this country. But that blessing can almost be a curse because we avoid pain. Like, you know, nobody's business. I don't want to hurt. I heard Sam say before the show, he doesn't want to hurt. None of us want to be in pain, but we really, the only hell we'll ever know is in this lifetime. And if we can't suffer here, we know Jesus, we're not going to suffer. But we won't ever really understand what suffering is about. The verse, oh, Sam wants it, here.

No, Jim, you could have finished. What I was going to say was, you know, without pain, we wouldn't be able to avoid certain things, right? I mean, the reason I don't stick my hand on a hot stove and leave it there is because it hurts. You know, pain causes action, right? It's meant to cause action. It doesn't always cause action, but it's meant to cause action, right? And sometimes we just stay in the midst of the pain and don't move into the action stage. Or you can take a bad action and just make it worse. There's a lot of people who will take something instead of going on the redemption side and going towards Christ, go, no, I'm going to go full in the other way. I'm going to go both feet, I'm going to jump in the fire, yeah, go ahead, man. I can take this.

I'll show you. And they're trying to be in complete control themselves, and that's just complete failure. One of the things that I really wanted to look at is how, especially in the U.S., it's other places too, but we look at, we've been redeemed through the pain Jesus Christ went through, so now we're going to have nothing but blessings. But we don't realize many of those blessings are going through pain. One of the verses I looked at in this, and really was part of the inspiration, is when Saul is converted, and he is, well, he's not told, but it is said about him, for I will show him, Paul, how much he must suffer for my name's sake. And how many of us really want to jump into that suffering? We're called, we're not necessarily called into it, but we're going to have it, and how we deal with it is part of our redemption process. Darrell Bock And we have Wayne, who's in Virginia, so what's the Virginian side of this argument, Wayne? Wayne In this life, you will, absolutely, you will have tribulation. Darrell Bock Yeah, so, Sam, you've got a clip from the Eagles, interestingly.

Go ahead. Sam Yeah, it's a song, a pretty well-known song called Wasted Time, and I want you to listen to it, but you listen to this person talking about somebody he knows stuck in a rut of behavior, you know, and they wonder if it's not wasted time. Don't care how much all strangers touch you, but you can't hold your man. You never thought you'd be alone this far down the line, but I know what's been on your mind. You're afraid it's all been wasted time.

Darrell Bock Yeah, with that song, you hear somebody that's kind of stuck in this rut of decisions and behaviors, and I think that when we're honest with ourselves, we tend to fall into the same pattern of choices, whether that be in relationships, whether it be in financial decisions, that type of thing, employment decisions, we tend to fall into the same ruts, and the problem is it does become wasted time if we don't let Jesus redeem it, and that's the whole thing is, you know, what do you do with that pain that, you know, obviously Don Henley's singing about there is, you know, you've got to take it to a place where you can find redemption and healing. Darrell Bock Yes, and it's going to be an interesting place on the other side where we find out how we can dive into that. We'll hear some stories along those lines, but also we want you to think about the boot camp that's coming up the week before Thanksgiving.

Pretty easy to remember that. In November, you go to masculinejourney.org and go register today. We will really look forward to seeing you there, and who knows, maybe we can even cause you some pain when we shoot you with our airsoft guns. Ankerberg What if one weekend wasn't up to you that you could go and God would orchestrate it all? Masculine Journey Boot Camp, basic training designed to give men permission to be how God made them, passionate warriors for the Kingdom. Based on John Eldridge's Wild at Heart, experience four days purposed for God to come after and perhaps reawaken dreams and desires He uniquely placed in your masculine heart. Fall Boot Camp coming up November 18th through the 21st. Go to masculinejourney.org and register today. Sam Hi, this is Sam with Masculine Journey.

I'm here with my son Eli. We're going to talk about ways that you can help support the ministry. One way you can go to smile.amazon.com.

Go to smile.amazon.com. There's information on our website there on how to do that. You go to facebook.com and click the donate button. Or you can go to masculinejourney.org and find the donate button. Masculinejourney.org.

Or if you want to mail something in, mail it to PO Box 550, Kernersville, North Carolina, 27285. Sam So Danny, Well, Andy sent me that song. And I'm struggling talking. And but we've been going through what that song talking about. Last six months, you know, my father in law had cancer and he died a couple weeks ago. And so we've lost someone, someone dear to us. And so that that song just kind of talks about how it's okay to fall apart. And our family has had moments of just falling apart the past couple weeks just and but you try I try so hard to fight it back.

The pain just seemed to be so great. But it's okay. It's okay to fall apart. You know, they say in Proverbs, it's better to be in the house of mourning, than a house of feasting. And for those of us who work with Danny, through this, have seen the incredible ways that God has come for your family, for you. And I think, you know, as hard as it is for you to talk about, this might be a great time for you to share the story about what your brother in law did for you. Oh, yeah.

And part of my struggle is not I'm breaking up because tears. I have this family cold that they're throwing around. Some people call it COVID.

But yeah, we're we're, yeah, it's the original COVID. Rodney said it was okay. So it's all right. Well, the, my father in law began to give away stuff long before he died. And so he, he had given my brother-in-law some jewelry.

And after he passed, my brother-in-law told my wife, his sister says, Dad didn't make too many mistakes, but he made one and I'm gonna correct it. And he gave her a couple of his rings. And one of the rings, which is what they called his courting ring.

I love that. His sister gave it to him back when he was dating my mother-in-law. And so Mike wore this ring, Mike, my father-in-law wore this ring.

So the kids were accustomed to seeing that on his finger. Well, my brother-in-law gave it to my wife and we got home at night and my wife says, come here a minute. And I said, okay. She says, and she slips this ring on my finger and it's, it's a perfect fit.

It's the right size. And she says, I'm used to seeing this ring on a strong man's hand. She said, now it's where it belongs.

And obviously she says, you pass it on to our son when you pass. And you know, the interesting part of that as we talk about this around here is that you always wonder, do I have what it takes? And that was my wife saying, you have what it takes. Yeah, that's beautiful.

Absolutely amazing. And that the other thing, Jim, I know you've done many funerals, right? And, and, and I, and I really think, you know, when I lost my parents, I can never remember a place where my faith was more important to me. Like to know like to know that, you know, I'm going to see my dad again. I'm going to see, you know, because they were again believers and I believe they're in heaven. And, and so, you know, this is where your rubber meets the road, so to speak, like it through the pain of that, you realize the beauty of the internal life, right? And, you know, of course the older I get to realize, like Jim, who's just a little older than me and Harold, who's, you know, basically on the doorstep, you know, it's just going to be a moment. We're going to be right there. Right, Jim? We're going to feel bad if he crashes.

Yeah. He's flying right this minute into Charlotte. So we're hoping he lands safe. But yeah, it's, we have such a short time here that if we have the eternal perspective, any pain we go through here is inconsequential. But if we don't and we think this is all we've got, I can't imagine losing my father, my mother, the people that I've lost in my life, your father-in-law.

What does it feel like if you don't know there's redemption through that pain? It's horrible. And if we have the amount of time, that's a reasonable lead-in to this clip. Yeah, I mean, can you imagine having a Jim topic without a Shaq clip? I mean, it'd be impossible to do that. It has happened. This is horrible.

You know, whatever, yeah. But this is Mac talking to God. In the Shaq, in the Shaq. In the Shaq. But it's actually, they're out in the woods somewhere.

It's a manly adventure. And in this case, it's not the woman God, it's an Indian God. That's true. But he's a God who looks like a Native American.

He's a wonderful representation for God. But it is, this is a guy that has had his daughter murdered in a horrible way. And he's dealing with that pain. Well, he didn't have his daughter murdered. He did cause it. His daughter was murdered. We're going to get laughs out of this regardless. I'm not trying to get laughs. It confused me. I was like, yeah, his daughter murdered. You see the difference, Shaq, but I did. No.

At the Rock. Yes. I guess I'm still dwelling in that other awful bit film, but this is a good one. And it really is a matter of he has lost his daughter in a horrible murder and he's having trouble dealing with that pain and the anger that comes from that. Mac, the pain inside is devouring you, robbing you of joy and crippling your capacity to love. I can't. You're not stuck because you can't. You're stuck because you won't. You don't have to do this alone. I'm here with you. I don't know how. Just say it out loud. Kenzie, you're such a joy. I'm still angry.

Of course you are. No one lets go all at once. You might have to do it a thousand times before it gets any easier. But it will.

Let's go. Yeah. So just like when we played this before the show, what jumps out to me is it's a matter of will. Your will or God's will. And in your will, you're just going to try to fight and fight and just do everything you can. Maybe, maybe just go hide.

Maybe you just are going to sulk, let things grow on you. Maybe you're going to go off and just almost forget about it. I'm going to bury it somewhere and I'm just going to run off.

And it's going to come back up. The only way this gets buried rightly is with Jesus. And if you're not running to Him and following His will, just like if you're saying, man, I don't feel like praying today. I don't feel like doing my Bible study. Those are the things that are the things that should hit you is the big red light going off. We've talked about gauges and warning lights.

This is the red light on there that says stop, pull over, do it. When you feel like you don't want to be with Jesus or be around Him or take time for God, that's the time you have to stop and enter in with your relationship with God because He's the one that's going to bring you out of it. Go into relationships that where you know other people are hurting, just like you are. Robby, you had some great stories about people hurting and things like that on your shows here in the recent past that how they got through it was entering in and helping and working through things that you would think were impossible. But with Jesus, it's all possible.

With us, it is impossible. If we are in a position where we're letting our emotions drive us, it's the same as being in a position where we're letting our pain drive us. We have the warning there and God has given us pain. God has given us emotions, these things, so that we will have the engine light that's flashing at us.

But that isn't what fixes the problem. Our emotional problems, our spiritual problems, our physical problems, we take them to God and we accept what He gives us. And sometimes we have to work through the pain over a lifetime and other times He'll relieve us of it. But if we do not expect to receive His very best in whatever position we're in, then we're focusing on ourselves and we're in trouble at the root. Darrell Bock Well, one of the things that Sam spoke to and I want to get back to is that in so many areas of our life, we know that, oh, here we are again, God.

I'm having this discussion again about my finances. And we don't want to push into the pain if we know that there are some agreements, there are some stuff that we've got inside of that. We've got old wounds that need to be dealt with. And the pain is what's keeping us from diving into actually getting healing, which is what brings the redemption, right, Sam?

Sam Yeah, it is. No one wants to go through pain. I mean, I'm sure there's somebody out there that wants to go through pain.

But most people I know don't want to do it and they do everything they can to avoid it. But the realization, Rob, even when we're at boot camp and God brings up a wound, right, there's a tendency to say, do I really want to go through what it's going to take to get to the healing on the other side? And the answer is yes, but you still got to step into it and you got to enter into it and you got to say, okay, I'm going to walk with you, God, through it. But it's still not always easy to step into that place because you know you got to go through the pain to get to the other side, to the restoration and the healing and the stuff that your heart really desires. Darrell Bock Yeah, and Jesus even said, take this cup, right, Wayne? And I know you wanted to speak to that. Wayne Yeah, I took hold of the cup this year and it has been painful. But just like Sam mentioned, I actually called a friend about a month and a half ago and just in tears and bawling because I was on the backside of that. And the only words that I could get out at that time was, it's painful, it's hard, but it's worth it. Darrell Bock And you pushed in.

Wayne Absolutely. Darrell Bock And we got to see you very shortly thereafter. You know, what a delight it is to watch people come into that healing and watch what God does through the pain, you know, in so many different ways. And that's one of the joys of being part of this journey. So we have an After Hours show. If you think we had these stories, we got more to come. We got all sorts of interesting things you don't want to miss out on, believe me, that's going to come up on the After Hours. You got to listen to the podcast, go to masculinejourney.org. You can listen to the podcast, register for the boot camp. We got all that stuff coming at you. Thank you so much for listening. We had so much fun today on A Masculine Journey.