Redemption Through Pain After Hours

Hi, I'm Matthew. My co-hosts, Brianna, Michael, Paul, and I have found life beyond Mormonism to be brighter than we were told it would be. Join us for discussions about our journeys from Mormon to Jesus. I'm Brianna from the Outer Brightness Podcast. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds.

Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening to the Truth Podcast Network. Coming to you from an entrenched barricade deep in the heart of central North Carolina, Masculine Journey After Hours, a time to go deeper and be more transparent on the topic covered on this week's broadcast. So sit back and join us on this adventure. The Masculine Journey After Hours starts here, now. Oh, we're so glad you are joining us today.

So we're just going to start off with a little Masculine Journey trivia to see how the team is, you know, a little Masculine Journey trivia. So every week, if you listen to the podcast, the Before the After Hours show, you hear the two promos, one of which is me talking about the boot camp, and the second one is Sam and his son, right? So who knows amongst our team here, or anybody listening?

Raise your hand, we'll pay attention, actually. What music is behind Sam and Eli, which is Sam's son, actually, that's talking with him in that promo? Anybody have a guess? I happen to know, because I mixed it. Oh, then we don't need to guess, you know. I can tell you the music behind the boot camp.

Ah, that's because it was picked up for Andy. But anyway, the music behind Sam and Eli, this is for you to know, next time you listen to that promo, just pay attention. If you ever ride the ride Soarin', I went to Disney World, I love that music, so I went home and clipped it. So if you feel like you're getting on the ride Soarin' as you're listening to Sandy and Sam and Eli, Sam and Eli, then you'll know, there you go.

And this is just totally off topic and a complete rabbit hole. But hey, I just thought you'd enjoy that. But you're right, my promo, what is the song, what is the music there about the boot camp? I don't know exactly the thing, but it's from Last of the Mohicans.

It is, it's the theme from Last of the Mohicans, which I cut specifically for Andy, because he loves that. He does. That's what you do when you love a brother, right? Yeah. You cut tapes for him?

So next time, Sam, you listen to those, you'll be able to know. That's the only good thing from that movie, actually. Well, you don't like Daniel Day-Lewis. The opening scene had turned me off, because these guys, I don't care how good they are, they aren't running through the woods like that without going down.

But they did. Yeah, the movie was nothing compared to the book, just Sam. You know, it was actually awesome. But meanwhile, getting back to the topic of today, Jim is bringing it. And we tried to give you all that pain so you'd be ready. This is finding redemption through our pain. Right, and when we left our hero Wayne, actually, he was describing quite a difficult situation he had gone through. And, you know, even Jesus, as we know, as we're going to share in his sufferings, you know, he asked God to take that cup from him.

So he's obviously not just lining up for the pain either. But Wayne, you asked God to take the cup from you this year too, didn't you? Yeah.

Go ahead. I heard someone in the background. He asked me to do a very difficult thing last year, right before the pandemic began. He actually had me quit my job.

I had ideas and understandings of how things were going to go in my mind. And after a few months, things continued to get harder and harder. And, you know, Father had to take me through that pain and that hurt to see that he really is my provision. He is the provision. But in the midst of that, like, one of the things that I would mention to folks is, like, cry out to him. He's a big guy. He can handle whatever you have to say to him.

He's there. He can hear it. And in the pre-discussion, Danny had mentioned something about how Jesus hung on the cross and cried out, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And if you actually study Jewish culture and everything, it's known that whenever the first line of a chapter is quoted, that the person has actually taken back their chapter. And I highly recommend anybody go and read Psalm 22. Because in Psalm 22, you get to see the pain, the affliction of Jesus in that moment. You see that it was so strong that he didn't feel like he was forsaken.

He felt like God had completely ignored all of his words. It felt like that in his being. And a lot of us have gone through that. But then you get into verse 22 and the end of 24, everything changes. The pain and the hurt that we go through in our lives, a lot of it is to, it's like a fire that burns out that dross right in the hole.

And it brings what's truly there to the surface. And in verse 24, it actually says, For he has not despised nor afforded the affliction of the afflicted, neither has he hid his face from him, but when he cried unto him, he heard him. God never turns his face on Jesus.

He never turns his face on any of us. It feels like it in the midst. And there we lost Wayne, in the midst. So go read all of Psalm 22, which is the point he's making. That is, and it really is a powerful Psalm, but it does point to where Jesus was when he was on the cross. And all of our redemption for every person listening that is redeemed came through the pain he suffered, but he did it willingly. And that's where we want to try to get to tonight, is that we go through the pain with God rather than trying to avoid the pain. Because I don't know anybody that hasn't been through painful situations that hasn't been made stronger from it.

And I don't know anybody that's had an easy life that isn't shallow. Right. Well, you know, when I personally, thinking about this subject for a while, you know, when I struggled with pornography, and we've talked about that on the show a few times, one of the pains I did not want to go through, but it had everything to do with relationship, was, do I want to share my struggles with my wife? Right. And that looked phenomenally painful. I mean, it just did. But if I wanted to be loved for who I really am, if I wanted to have a relationship where my wife knew what she was really married to, and if I was willing to lay myself out there to try to get the forgiveness I needed in order to push into the relationship, then it required that. So I, you know, God told me that's what he wanted, but I could think of 40 billion reasons why that shouldn't happen. Well, interestingly, he put me in a boot camp experience.

It was actually a marriage retreat with Sam and Darren at the time. And they had the one and only joint covenant of silence that I've ever seen, where we went in there and they were like, now you need to go into this covenant of silence and talk and share with your spouse something, you know, some type of deep, inner, intimate detail that you've never been able to share with them before. And oh my gosh, I was called out right on the spot like, God ordained this moment for me to do that. And as I pushed into that, you know, it just brought an intimacy with God and my wife.

Like I could not even begin to tell anyone what it did to feel love for who you really are and not the wet mask that you've been wearing. And oh yeah, it hurt her a lot. And oh yeah, I had to sit there and watch the result of all my sin, you know, come down on my wife. But the thing of it is by pushing into it with God with me. In other words, I didn't just take it on myself to go have this discussion with my wife.

And I'm not recommending this. What I'm saying is God says go do something and push into it with him and in the situation. And oh my goodness, and it wasn't six months ago or maybe three months ago. God and I had another secret that I had never talked about with my wife and I don't really have permission to share it with all the people that are involved right now. But I will tell you, it was another situation like are you going to trust?

And this is really where it comes down. Are you going to trust God? Are you going to trust the person that you love?

But more importantly, are you going to trust God with the truth, with where that really is and what's really going on? And I can just say, wow, I'm so thankful to have brothers that held me up really through these. And never with any condemnation whatsoever, always just to support. I didn't feel like I had a group that was watching over my shoulder saying, Robby, you've got to do this, this, and this. It was always just they were there. They knew the story. They loved me. And that was the deal. Everybody's looking at me. I was going to dump on Andy.

It's your topic. Well, in the after hours, we're trying to give stories that are our going through pain to redemption. And the most poignant one, and Andy, be ready because you're right after me. But the most poignant one in my life was about 35 years ago. And my wife and I had been married 13 years. We were at that point just angry roommates.

And I got a job that was in a different town. And I went up there and I got, well, I'll just put it this way, I fell for a Proverbs 7 woman. As I was headed towards the ultimate outcome that those sort of things have, which is a arrow in the liver.

But read Proverbs 7, you'll get that. But I was in trouble. I mean, I was just nuts for this woman. And it was and nuts is the best way to put it. But I know it wasn't.

This is hard to tell even this long after the fact. But we were headed towards the act and I got an inkling from God. I wasn't really listening to him at that time that the only thing I had left in my marriage was physical fidelity. The heart fidelity had already gone out the window. So I went home and I told my wife I wanted a separation. She heard divorce and that was probably more accurate because I tend to pad things. And I was expecting when I said that to her that I wanted to leave. I was going to get a good riddance, you jerk.

Because I was and I was in the wrong. But she started crying. And that broke my heart seeing that she still cared.

And she said, trying to make the long story shorter, that she had looked forward to this move as a new start. And that's what God gave us. And we had been, I mean we were both believers but pretty much carnal Christians at that point. I went to church just to sing because I love singing. She didn't go because it was presbyterian and she was a Baptist.

We moved together there. That my desire for the other woman quickly went away because I found out what kind of woman she was very quickly. And I could focus on God and my wife. And I wouldn't be sitting here today if it hadn't been for that extremely painful process. And that was one of those self-inflicted ones. But it doesn't really matter because God is going to use your pain whether it's caused by someone else. Whether it's caused by yourself.

Or whether it's a seemingly random event. He will put pain in your life to draw you to Him if that's what it takes. Andy? So that's hard to follow Jim. I mean just to hear the guys stories.

I've heard them before but hearing them. Again you just realize. You just sense the guys hearts and the pain that they went through in their family. And then to see the redemption and the use of God. How God uses Jim. And everybody here. But my story. I used this story a lot. It's basically how I ended up in the masculine journey. And I don't want to just repeat it the same way I always share it.

But it will probably come across similar to that. But really it was. I was probably 10 years ago. You know I had a nice family and was somewhat fulfilled but bored. And God saw that in my heart. And there's some things that happened where we got hooked up with a home church. And I really thought that there was life there and then that fell apart real quickly. And soon thereafter me and my wife separated. And I knew that there was always something that was kind of missing.

And I kind of delve into that and started learning more about the masculine heart. But the pain that that brought on. It was devastating and I didn't realize.

I think we take our families for granted sometimes until they're in jeopardy. And it certainly was. And during that time, you know probably the first five to seven years.

You know I wasn't happy about the pain whatsoever. I knew that I was growing. I knew that I was learning. God was using that time. And it was redeemable time. I felt kind of like it was that wasted time. There are many times I thought, man I'm just wasting my life.

Because the world tells us that the only way that we can really receive life is to be in a relationship with somebody. Or have some human connection. And that's a big part of it. But if you get that out of order. You make a relationship or a family or a person your God.

Then that's upside down. And I think I had done that somewhat. So in God's mercy, I mean he saw where I was at. And a lot of times he has to take us through some kind of valley.

Something painful so that we'll look up. And I really did. And through that process.

Through that time. You know I've just. I have to say.

I mean I've heard other people say. The things that people would say were bad. My mom had cancer. She said it was one of the better things that's ever happened to her.

Because it taught her to really rely on God. I mean I really thank God for this. I'm still separated.

My wife has a good relationship. But with that being said. I would not be the man I am today without it. I mean I know that. And it just.

It breaks me up sometimes. Just to realize how far I've came. Because I was really an unfinished man. And I have these brothers that I learn from. And I have God teaching me on a daily basis.

And that truly is the redemption out of the pain. And I don't know. I just.

I praise him for it I think. But I wouldn't have said this in the beginning obviously. You don't know what you don't know.

But starting down that path. I didn't want this. And most people resist pain. Because that's just. Our body repels that. I mean nobody likes it whenever you sprain an ankle. I mean that's not pleasant. Why would I like it in my relationships?

Yeah I think. For me and hopefully I can articulate. What I'm trying to say on it. You know I look back over relationships.

You know. With females that I've had over the years. Being married twice. You know having girlfriends and things like that. And there's a couple patterns that emerge.

You know one of them being. And that's why that song Wasted Time. Almost moves me to tears. A lot of times. Because I felt like there were times that I lived in that cycle. I got a lot of good things out of the relationship.

Great kids. You know those things that would never trade any of that. Right but. What I've come to realize. You know moving from.

Being married and then going at some point into online dating. Was that. I didn't. Like me.

Very well. Because I believed a lot of the things that the enemy threw at me about my identity and. And my woundedness and. And that's who I was. You know I was a molested kid that you know had issues. I was. Got a phone that's beeping apparently.

I've got. You know I was a pornography addict. I was this. I was that. And I didn't like myself. And so I looked to the women to give me identity. Right. And there was no rest there.

There was no peace there. And there were times when I was married it was a great great part of my life. I'm just saying holistically I was looking. For the answers that they couldn't give me.

That God had to give me. And so you know I haven't really dated. Much in a while now. A little bit here and there. But I haven't really.

Wanted to. Not that I don't want a deep intimate relationship. And to be married again at some point down the road I do want that. But what I'm finding in the meantime is redemption through God that. Is helping me like me is helping me.

Walk more intimately with him and helping me rely on him. In ways that I never have. You know and those things are really really painful to go through. But I'm grateful to have gone through them because then it allows me to have perspective now.

That I didn't have then. You know and I can walk. This sounds arrogant but there's days I just go I'm kind of happy with me right now. You know and that's not a normal. Thing for my life over many many decades.

But it has been for a while now. Not everyday but most days you know that I can. Be happy with me and I'm happy with my relationship with God and. You know I'm entering into it in ways I never have.

Like I said entrusting him in ways I never have. You know and I think that there's a lot more fruit to be had and when that time does come. I'll be more ready to do it in a healthy place.

Right and not ask from them but be good to give to whoever that female is. It's interesting you know talked earlier on the show about. You're losing my father-in-law and with death comes pain. There's some family dynamics going on right now that I won't get into.

But what I think God is trying to unpack in my life is that. There's a difference between a true honest open authentic relationship. And positional affection. You know I have positional affection for some folks.

Just because of who they are I love them. But there's no relationship and there's a huge difference in that. And that does become painful at times.

Because you obviously want everybody to feel about you the way you feel about them. But you look for Sam said it will. That affirmation in relationships. And it can't come from there. It has to come from my Heavenly Father.

There's no other place to get it. And he just keeps peeling away layers and peeling away layers. And so it's interesting to see what will be unpacked. So you've heard a lot of discussion about what has been.

What these guys have gone through. Well I'm in the middle of that right now. My situation is my wife and I are basically growing apart right now. We have tried all kinds of things to reconcile. And you know grow back together.

Seeing counselors and other things. And it's painful but it's not working out. And it is very sad.

It's hard to take. I don't know if this. If I'd have been going through this you know 20 years ago when I was not walking with God. I don't know what I'd be doing. I'd probably be just you know okay I'm out to get mine. And that's not where my heart is. My heart's not out to get mine. My heart's at. Really I need to take care of my wife's heart the best I can.

The best of my ability even though that the relationship is very strained. And if it wasn't for God I know I know my heart. I would not be there because there are. I have those thoughts of oh yeah. I'll get even with you. I have those thoughts but I just kind of. I can quickly kind of dash them away and put them away right now. It's something that helps my sanity at this point in time.

Keeps me from getting depressed. I was one of those. I remember when we first went to counseling. Oh gosh. It had to be.

I don't know if it's been 20 years ago but maybe 15 years ago at least. And you know the counselor wants to talk to me alone and her alone before we actually get into this couple's counseling. You know it's like asking these questions. So have you ever. You know.

Thought about committing suicide and like. Yeah yeah. Oh really. Well how often. I don't know all the time. Who doesn't think about that. You know for me that was just.

Ordinary. Yeah who doesn't do that all the time. And he's like.

Stops me and just says. Yes you do have depression. That is that is that is a huge sign.

And it's like what. I've never been depressed. You know I'm not a depressed guy. Well understanding that and understanding where you're at and you're in these things. You know.

It's where I. Oh my gosh. That's why I'm like this in my relationship with my wife and why I act certain ways that I do. And it's it's very painful. To know the pain that I have caused someone I love and. If it wasn't for the forgiveness that I've been received. You know that I have any chance of even trying to forgive myself.

And I have you know it's much easier forgive my wife but trying to forgive myself for what I have done is also a very hard thing to do but that's where I'm walking right now. And quite honestly. I wouldn't say happy is a word.

But again back to the word content. It's like OK this is the cards that I've been dealt by God and he could still redeem things. So that's kind of where I'm at so I'm like OK. You. You're the one that can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Not me you know so.

Talking about a rabbit trails. But that's where I'm. That's where I'm at. I'm like Lord dude. You're the one leading this you're guiding this. You're. I'm praying. Heavily I've got family members praying so.

You know it's like. Walk with him Rodney. Just stay with him. Stay with Jesus. Eyes and.

Ears and everything else on Jesus and. Just. You know.

Then it's like OK. Where is your wife's heart at and just kind of make sure that you're taking the best care of that as you can because that's one way things are going to get redeemed. So as you look to the 16th Psalm I do for a lot of things. Because it just applies so much here that.

As he come down in the Psalm where David's going to bring in for a landing. He says. I have placed the Lord always before me. Because he's at my right hand.

I will not be shaken. Therefore. Right. My heart. Is glad.

My glory rejoices. And my flesh. Rests.

In a secure place. Man. I mean that's it just that's a that's a mouthful right there. And I couldn't think of a better prayer to pray. I prayed all the time. Like. I will place the Lord always before me because at his right hand I will not be shaken.

And if we can get there. Right. Through the pain. Right.

Because at the end of that Psalm as you get to the bottom of it it says right. You've shown me the path of life in your presence is fullness of joy at your right hand. Our pleasures. Forevermore. Right. Jim. We've had. Two. I don't think Sam used the word but content. Paul had it. By our standards had a terrible life but he chose to be content and remember you have that choice.

If you are depending upon. Jesus Christ. There you go. So wow thank you for listening. We can't tell you how much we appreciate it. We appreciate it also if you liked and shared this podcast with whoever listened. That would be really special to us. We'd appreciate your feedback always. Go to Mask on Journey radio and register for the boot camp.