Reflections on the President and the Media; a New Children's Book; and an Interview on Steve Bannon, the Pope, and Immigration

From the president and the media to the Pope and immigration in a book for radical kids got all come your way today on the one flyer stage for the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It is great joy to be with you today on the line of fire. I am absent thrilled to be back and my home studio Michael Brown blessed to have this time together with you the number to call 866-34-TRUTH 866-348-7884 is never a dull moment.

These days, is there ever a moment where there's not some breaking news and if it's not breaking it's going to be reported as breaking in everything at breakneck speed in a slowdown. Let's think together carefully and let's interact if you'd like to call it and become part of today's discussion.

Again, 8663 for 87884. I am not going to say a whole lot about the resignation of Gen. Flynn right now. There's so much flying around with that so much larger talk in terms of the criticism of the Trump administration and now attacks on Donald Trump's alleged role or questioning his role as well in the Michael Flynn's interaction with Russia looking a major on that. There's a lot of talk on it and I want to step back and let the dust settle and then weigh in. But here's here's what I do want to say we got a lot of ground to cover on the broadcast. Today I want to respond at length to a letter from Prof. Susan Shaw woman, a professor of women, gender and sexuality studies at Oregon State University just came out three days ago on Huffington Post dear white Christian Trump supporters. We need to talk want to engage her, she would important article at length and I do not respond to it, and interact and hopefully get on the air so that we can have further interaction but let me get your take on something. Let's start here.

The mainstream media is unrelenting attacks on Donald Trump. Yeah, I know that conservative pundits the Rush Limbaugh's and the Sean Hannity's and others were unrelentingly going after Barack Obama. I don't remember it being at this frenzied a level I don't remember it being this breathless, this relentless this incessant and over. Sometimes even the smallest things.

So were talking the major networks. The major newspapers. The major cable news and I was at the airport part of three flights and 14 hours of travel back from Saskatoon, Canada, back to my home base yesterday and sitting at the airport between flights. CNN was on the air and boil tell you it was it was just something to listen not. I think there are some commentators on CNN who are more fair than others. I don't catch it enough to be able to weigh in on a larger level and most of what I get I get by reading transcripts news reports after as opposed to sitting and listening and watching, but it sounded to me like little children waiting for the latest bit of gossip into the bathtub. Did you hear and and and Donald Trump is more logical and he he he was talking with the leader of Japan Abe and and selection of both the North Korean missile launch and and they were talking but they were talking in public at that. We don't know if they said they can classify we don't love Donald Trump submitting customer. But what if he did when that be some kind of a breach in a ring on one experts as we don't know what he said he might've said to promise to obviate you know will will have to talk in private will talk about this more in private but this is a very bad thing. Who knows, but the obit if you set this up and and everything going on but this is on real eider friend that preferred CNN to Fox over the years by the told me that now they're switching over to Fox to take a break from the unrelenting attacks on CNN.

Is this turning off more to the mainstream media turn you off more towards Donald Trump will be right back in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the broadcast 866 Orchard.

I have no issue with the president making some mistakes. Some administrative missteps as some have called them some issues coming up with the people representing him things being rushed to into to quickly got no argument with that you, you've got to be almost a blind loyalist to not recognize that some things could have been done better and certainly certainly I can't imagine any but the most rabid loyalist of the president defending every last week that he sends out Cindy. I'm glad the President of the United States most powerful elected human being on the planet. I'm glad that he's sending out these tweets and going after some of the things is going after.

So I got no issue saying yeah he's giving his critics fuel for their fire, but it is so unrelenting and so incessant and sometimes the tone so badgering that to me I would think it's going to turn people off to the quote mainstream media more than is going to turn people against Donald Trump. There is a gal at the Grammys, which obviously took a lot of shots at Donald Trump or celebrities were encouraged to and there was one gal that wore a pro Trump dress officer takes a lot of guts to do that in the midst of the very liberal Hollywood Grammy type scene, but her sales soaring agenda book out's of sale sorted her notoriety soared in a positive way. So this is a lot of people out there on the Trump side of things, but just curious as you are watching this maybe you been more neutral. Maybe you're one of those that did know what to make of Donald Trump and you may be voted form with reluctance, maybe didn't vote for him, but should not put yourself in the category of all-out Hillary supporter all out Trump supporter okay. How has the media coverage affected you. How was the media coverage impacted you know, maybe you're listening primarily to those that you agree with and that's that's also fine as long as you're challenging your views you don't want to be in a little bubble. We are not challenging your views. I respect those who differ with me and listen to the broadcast, because Heather still here, there still listening. That's positive and yes I read things from those I differ with and I look for blind spots along the way. I've been blessed with a faithful wife was quick to point out to me which she thinks is a blind spot or an error that I've made or something that I don't see but having said all that, that to me is totally different from what we are seeing with this unrelenting attack on the president for every little thing and not only to me, is it overdone not only to me, is it unfair to me.

It is also ultimately counter productive, and there can be people who can be fighting and scratching to try to get rid of Donald Trump or I mean tried to put enough pressure on with constant discrediting with constant attacking with constant negativity that you get to the point where he be unable to govern now I I read the headline and glanced at an article that claims that Pres. Obama is kind of leaving in all leading an alternative government. He's got tens of thousands of people doing his bidding and they are so is that the ongoing protest and criticism and so on and so forth, that that's that's what is that's going on in Obama's behind it like I unless I have hard evidence.

I'm just like, I believe the Barack Obama weigh-in immediately with criticism of Donald Trump yesterday think it was appropriate. Yes, that I appreciate the fact that President Bush did not do that to Pres. Obama.

When he came in. Yes, think it's the wrong thing to do.

I think that this that discredits Barack Obama when he weighs in just days after getting out of the White House think that's regrettable but is he leaving some anti-Trump movement unless I have hard clear evidence I'm just not going to believe that less of a hard clear evidence of a conspiracy. I'm not gonna believe it. If it ultimately proves out if I have insider information. If God tells me it's real. Paul then that's fine otherwise I think we do best to just question. Some of these things and to have a skeptical approach and then not to have this reflex reaction where you feel obligated to defend everything the president Trump says or does. I don't understand how that is ultimately productive.

I don't understand how that is ultimately advancing truth. Our greatest allegiance should be to truth to God's truth of all truth is God's truth in that respect. Truth is truth, but the things that God has laid out as to what is important.

The values that are important.

That is where ultimate allegiance is and we encourage the president. Donald Trump you Barack Obama to do what is right because it is right and because it is best for the nation.

I have not read well fraction of the comments that came in regarding my article on right-wing hypocrisy left-wing intolerance and right-wing hypocrisy, but some of my friends really get that a lot. I saw some comments and it's just struck me as amazing that some folks on our side. I'm sure on the other side of of issues are unable to receive constructive criticism unable to receive input that would challenge their views out I find that distressing and I find that sad and I also find it sad that when I criticize some of our our hypocrisy talking to our camp right those who are conservative those who lean to the right. Those who are biblically-based conservatives. Those who vote conservatively that when I raise issues about our hypocrisy that people take that as an attack on Donald Trump or I'm showing my true liberal side.

What kind of nonsense is that it is the only the only way in which we can demonstrate our commitment to it will cause her to truth by refusing to ever criticize anything within our own camp by refusing to ever raise concerns within our own camp what what kind of loyalty is that that that is not a healthy loyalty. That's an unhealthy loyalty tell me any family that is strong that this that is not recognize when they're doing something wrong with they need to fix, but they do it as a family to me. Any team that is strong. That does not make internal corrections and address issues. Tell me any movement that is strong.

That doesn't do the same. It's somehow if I talk about our own hypocrisy.

For example, when Pres. Obama was issuing executive orders recalled and abuse of power.

When Donald Trump is doing it with Realty standing up for what's right. You said all Mike how could you be so stupid Barack Obama. What what he did is is dead wrong and with Donald Trump's doing is good of all. I know we could.

We honestly debate the executive orders back and forth and look at them, but were missing. Is this that many of us were critical of Pres. Obama issuing executive orders because we simply said the president should not issue. So many executive orders, the president ought not do that. That was a big point that we were making sound appropriate for the president to be doing that things should go through Congress. Things should go through to voters. It is not appropriate so that was our issue. The abuse of power. And yet when Donald Trump was doing it, or is doing it. We're cheering that off, that's my issue yet.

We can talk about the executive orders. Obviously, I prefer quite a few of the things Donald Trump has signed as opposed to quite a few things Barack Obama signed obviously and I did not vote for Barack Obama and I did so with reservation. But I did vote for Donald Trump and people look at me as more of an advocate for the president, then an adversary of the president, and I am seeking to honor the Lord and and be righteous and honest and if I have a difference express that difference respectfully and by the way, when I differences with Pres. Obama, I recite address that. Respectfully, because he is my president was my president right so I hope you can hear him saying a little self-examination is great.

Little self-examination is healthy. If we don't periodically do it before the Lord, take inventory of our lives if we don't do it with the help of family members or friends were only hurting ourselves listen we can deceive ourselves as easily as we can deceive others, we can deceive ourselves as easily as we can deceive others, have often told the story, but when we moved from Long Island to Maryland I noticed something happened to the scale I guess the on the truck or something.

It smells like 5 pounds heavier than before.

It was very odd.

This was in 1987 and then I don't put a little weight on since my my days teaching on Long Island book. What I tried on some mild suits.

These three-piece suits.

I got most teaching on Long Island. Starting in in 1983 and 84, I was shocked to see that they all did shrunk dramatically. I got the little weight on but not that much yet. I was deceiving myself now.

The scale didn't change in the moving truck and know the six-inch strength I was deceiving myself friends we can deceive ourselves as easily see anyone else we come back I will start interacting with this letter written by a presser of women, gender and sexuality studies at Oregon State University here on the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown has friends for joining us on the line of fire. 87884.

I'm looking at a picture of Prof. Susan Shaw not heard of her before she's a professor of women, gender and sexuality studies at Oregon State University and she says that she grew up in a conservative Christian home and is troubled by the fact that she doesn't seem to understand conservative Christians in America today, especially white conservative Christians and wants to have a conversation and specifically has no idea how we could vote for Donald Trump in light of and her views here. His misogyny, his racism is lying and his values.

She raises some great questions and she raises them in a gracious spirit.

She ends by saying this, from writing to know we need to talk and I don't know how to talk to you anymore. I need to know is more important to the wind and to do good. Can we build coalitions listen to science rely on real evidence be effective with the needs and rights of all of his above ideologies can relive the love of God. We claim women to hear and understand. I get that. I also want you to hear and understand the rest of the world that is not you are of your kind because they tour God's people and therefore in the circle of those who must love you tell me when I was a child. If we can agree on that that you taught me that when I was a child. If we can agree on that. Now we have a place to start. So Prof. Shaw, I hope to put some of my thoughts in writing in the my office is going to reach out to you to see if you like to join me on the air to have a respectful discussion we can do is to professors to educators and to people who share I'm sure many of the same values and differ fundamentally on others, but I assure you, if we do this it will be respectful for the sake though of my listeners because I will limit what I say in writing. I want to take a little more time to speak to others might see I'm I'm kind of in Prof. Shaw's camp on understand how you could be a committed Christian vote for Donald Trump or understand how you could want to see a wall built between them American Mexicana understand that, or I understand why you could so rapidly defend him or her vote for someone that lies in that your perspective that your prospectus out.

I will only speak to address those concerns. Maybe you say hey I'm a conservative Christian I did I couldn't vote for Donald Trump and I understand where she's coming from what's let us have a discussion if you want way and interact with me 866-34-TRUTH 7884 so I'm going to jump into the article and she says this she's talking about Prof. Charles talking about how she got where she got as a professor and that we might look at her maybe working-class middle America saucy.

We had a generic sense and say oh you're just part of the liberal elite report of the liberal elite and she said look, my white conservative Christian upbringing had told me that that was the American dream work or get a head to work hard and succeed. I did not feel your holding against me. Now that I no longer share your views.

Will Prof. Shaw. The fact that over the course of your life you've come to different views. I respect that I'm I'm not in any way disrespect you are looking down at you because you've come to different views in your journey, we might have passionately different perspectives on things.

But if you've thought studied and wrestled with the issues and and challenge yourself back and forth.

Well, how can I not respect that even as we differ.

Certainly wouldn't hold that against you citizen read and argued and wrote and rewrote got peer-reviewed over and over and over. Our ideas are held to incredibly high rigorous standards and so only speak with you so carefully artfully with Nuance with openness because sometimes we are also wrong because we studied hard and held ourselves of different professional standards determined she and her fellow professors really do know do know a lot about what were talking about that we have something to offer. The real conversation across our differences, including the East Coast Ivy League is who aren't out is out of touch.

You may think, but I don't think you want to hear us on the eye. Prof. Shaw with all respect, here's why think you're missing something. In academia these days and it has been documented empirically. Document there is an incredible amount of bias against conservative ideologies and against biblically based religious faith. There is incredible animus that liberal professors dominate. You can look in the law schools you can look in the and in the philosophy department. You can look at the psychiatry departments.

You can look at biology department and they are dominated by liberal thinkers who clamp down on and oppose differing viewpoints who do not want the fair exchange of ideas because they have written some off already. So what I'm saying to you is that you are in more of a bubble than you realize that the peers that are reviewing your material or part of that bubble. There are lifelong liberals. There are life long liberals and they for wealth and for give to psychologists, lifelong liberals who favor same-sex marriage and they notice disturbing trends in mental health. They call them destructive trends and they saw an extreme liberal bias in extreme liberal intolerance that shut out opposing ideas and Nicholas Cummings being one of the authors of this book on destructive trends in mental health.

They decided to put a book together and putting the book together. They were dealing with numerous issues. Maybe a chapter 2 dealing with homosexuality, but widespread issues having to do a psychiatry, psychology and the mental health professions and to their surprise, but further confirming their concerns was that there were professors who were hesitant to contribute because they said it would cost them their careers that you contribute would cost them their careers, or would hurt them that they would come under attack for simply criticizing the rest of the system and professor show what troubled me in reading through your article was that you you with me don't understand how we view abortion.

For example, when you said that yeah people are protesting Donald Trump because she could sign a bill that would directly affect someone's marriage or family or or a woman's right to choose or something like that will how you think we felt when Barack Obama was elected as an aggressive friend to Planned Parenthood and that to us means that the the slaughter of more children in the womb were those human lives to us and the woman has the right to choose about her own body, but not about another life, another distinct human being any more than a mother can soak in a throw my 6 Month Old Way because I'm tired of it and he keeps me up at night. She keeps me up at night so I think there's a this organ have our dialogue yet either in writing alone or on the air. I think there's a failure to see other points of view, that's what concerns me. Hopefully I can still you're coming from. You understand what ethical dialogue he friends check out our special resource off. You don't want to miss it credible digital download discount all these like that little want to fire the Lord. Check it out. There is no line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown thank you much for joining us on want to fire 863487884 number to call before I go back to further dialogue with Prof. Shaw about why some of us voted for Donald Trump to consider ourselves conservative Christians why we have differences with quote aggressive values and why we do this while interacting while listening wall understanding, yet still having strong differences before I get back to that we grab one call and will go to Frederick, Maryland Priscilla, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks for calling on want to thank you for what you bought. I you on time on Greenway, I do not act increase can I think back, we really need to be careful of what is going on the need to pack one day pretty dead something like thinking all hard before them, then me on my all fellowship. We continue to pray about it. As a child of God.

Get back with you on the island needed the Bible say that I have been appointed by God. I look at all by my you know though about how what I got. Went out or not he actually about that book left between you and a law. I dropped her at 5 foot 1B Dishon eight when you are not going with the flow. They can tool you want to talk about weekend if you follow precedent trial you want to nab you know not be dropped the ball flight� Look at what you bracketing like a friend of mine joked that anyone that recommend that what makes up right you want, but are arranging why can't they just come to Gaza we law the bond bracketing you like law, like all large backpack on eating justly point out did God not of people died on the high rate of speech is gay so you're your you're absolutely right that the sack that you're someone who fully for Barack Obama.

Someone who agrees a lot of what I say and disagrees with other parts of it I see your you're the perfect person to talk to about this because you're not coming from the viewpoint of I'm 100% in this camp are hundred percent in that camp politically and and yes if if there were people on the right who attacked Pres. Obama in ugly ways and with ugly words and the demeaning ways on the same happens to Pres. Trump what it would expect the mean it's it's going to be equal in that sense, but the fact is that that the attacks are unprecedented and it really it continues to strike me as sore losers as people who can't accept the fact that they lost and they can do everything they can to drag down the presidency.

Rather than say okay our side lost. But let's get back to reporting honestly and ethically and fairly. Let's try maybe for the first time to report. Honestly, ethically, fairly, your hundred percent right facility is God's people rise above the fray said it better example.

Thank you for the call � for gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown letting us on the broadcasted 866-34-TRUTH 87884 okay Prof. Susan Shaw just tweeted her during the break and invited her to join me on the Air Force. Our office will officially reach out to her as well. She writes this that you tell me I need to get over Trump selection stuffing sore loser. The politics is not a sport will choose teams and simply cures onto victory above the length of Falcons lost the Super Bowl and painful though that was I'll get over it hurts but I will protest march, write letters, or otherwise resist the outcome we discover New England's balls were deflated to game but it's not life or death. The selection of exactly that. Perhaps you can tell me to get over because you do not have to worry. The trouble appointed Supreme Court justice that could play a role in invalidating your marriage hot seat. Prof. short.

Don't you understand with all respect, and as a professor and engage in rigorous peer review dialogue to set up the magic and understand this, that we live with the reality of Pres. Obama appointing justices that we felt would fundamentally redefine marriage, which we felt would be far away, in the worst interest of the country in every way and end with the part of a larger slippery slope. Can you understand that. Can you understand that we live with the reality that Pres. Obama could appoint people in and did that would be radically pro-abortion pro-choicers you might call it that we live with that reality and with the grave concern that Hillary Clinton could push this enough. In a further destructive negative direction. Do you think that your views about marriage. If you believe that a man has the quote right to marry another man or woman. Another woman you think you hold to those views any more passionately than we hold to the views that marriage is intended by God to be the union of a man and a woman and that it's in the best interest of society to limited to that in the best interest of children and family to limit that you think that your views are held in a more passionately than ours.

Do you think that your views about a woman's right to choose are held in a more passionately than our views about the sanctity of life of the daily beginning in the womb. Let's keep going. If Congress passes an Trump signs the First Amendment defense that you probably will have to worry that a bakery restaurant or hotel might legally deny service. Wow wow again.

Do you not understand that there are hard-working families. There are grandmothers that there are deaf black women that there are people across the spectrum here in America who have suffered at the hands of aggressive judges and gay activists who have lost businesses because they were forced to act in a way that was contrary to their religious convictions enter believes that Barack Obama himself campaigned on, believes that Barack Obama was campaigning 2008 suggest marriage is you never met a woman as a Christian it's a sacred thing to me. He said that now for people simply singing a lie. I can't I'm a photographer in good conscience I can't shoot a gay wedding. I can't pose the two women it's okay I need to do a little hug will smooch.

I can't do that in good conscience it's a violation of my faith would you require a Muslim to cater a wedding with pork. Would you require Orthodox Jewish photographer took to cover wedding photograph a wedding on a Saturday on on the Sabbath on Shabbat. Would you require a gay T-shirt company to make T-shirts say marriage one man one woman only, or Leviticus 1822. It's an abomination from demand have sex with a man, would you would you want to require that person to do it. That's what's happened again activism has become the number one threat to freedom of religion, speech and conscience in America understand how you could be so oblivious to that side of things.

Yeah there there are some real real concerns were looking for Donald Trump for president Trump to protect our religious liberties and these were religious liberties that were established in our Constitution and or Bill of Rights. These are fundamental I I can quite assure you that our founding fathers would have been beyond mortified. It would have been beyond inconceivable that you would tell them that in their name and their name that men were now marrying men and women without marrying women and those who could not participate in those ceremonies, in good conscience were being prosecuted by the law in their name over just doing what the founders what that that would be beyond inconceivable you see enough to worry about being stranded in the airport refused admission to the US because the country or from the religion you practice afterward about having your family divided across the world with a simple signature on executive order.

You see your degree because you cannot achieve what you think you deserve. You think some was deserving other has taken it despite having moved to the middle class. I spent my career teaching about advocating for labor unions living wage affordable childcare Social Security affordable healthcare accessible higher education progresses wretched once you support the economic programs and policies I could make a difference for the working class. Perhaps again Prof. sure you're missing some of the point one most of us who consider ourselves conservative followers of Jesus, and who voted for president Trump. We are hoping that he and his team will come up with something better than the affordable care act Obama care. We want to see Americans helped. We believe there's a better way. I personally lost my insurance company of many years and just within. I guess the last month of the president being in power. Pres. Obama that they did it, obviously, but as a result of Obama care. I was told I was grandfathered out that I was in originally. Like I could not hold to my original sure and my policy went way up and I know many doctors. Many doctors have told me they can barely afford to stay in business now because of what happened with Obama care and it's hurt their practice.

It's hurt their ability to help people. So we want to see something better can we agree on that is not a good place to start.

As far as immigration there. There are a lot of crimes committed by illegals here and that's what were concerned about.

And we know as we look in Europe and the rising tide of radical Islam and the desire to undermine cultures and countries that we need to do a better job of vetting so what was it that bad to just have a pause a three month pause on immigrants from seven countries. While we work on getting our vetting in order what it was rolled out wisely. Things could've been done better with is that so big an issue that so inconceivable and I'm speaking as one who sponsored refugees in the past to my family open their doors to Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees in the late 70s early 80s was a privilege to have them live as part of our family for several years at an eye.

We have grants for ministry school serving in some of the poorest, most hurting parts of the world to serve in the right right in the midst of the Middle East conflict. We have folks serving their risking their lives to bring the gospel and humanitarian help to those in need. At the same time we're just looking for better vetting and better security measures. Pres. Obama's administration strung some swung so for the direction we could even talk about radical Islamic any references to that were removed from the books the FBI would use another security was used to that's hamstrung us was overdoing is seeking to improve on these things. You have to worry about being stranded in airport refused admission to the US because the country you're from of the religion you practice wealth, our fellow practitioners of Christianity around the world being slaughtered genocides be commit. I hope you can raise your voice about that. I hope you been outspoken on that we'd like to see priority for Christian refugees, because they have less places to go in America's majority Christian nation that makes assimilation easier for them than for religious Muslim who could go to another Muslim country easily enough. We also think that the welfare system has hurt the poor and that there need to be better policies so we are looking at those questions is as well a you say you want progressives to listen to then prioritize truth. The selection was filled with fake news should buy the on Facebook this administration are ready to begin to create a language of alternative facts to misinform and mislead want to talk offer evidence real evidence based on verifiable data and reliable sources not wishful imaginings are fabricated bright Bart stories Prof. Shaw. There is as much fake news on the left at least is on the right, and CNN and MSNBC and Huffington Post, for which you right. I'd say there is least is guilty of fake nooses is bright Bart that you would choose. That's the problem. I can acknowledge our allies and use it on yours. That's the problem right on file. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown thank you so much for joining us on the broadcast today following the second hour. Listen to on our app on the asked Dr. Brown That is for android phones was to try to work out some things with iPhones to get that accessible for iPhones and iPads but you can continue listening, but downloading the asked Dr. Brown app that is on the Google play store and replace door River in android device ask a DR Brown. You see, one of the many icons there is light a farm click and if the shows on then you can listen live. Otherwise, listen to the most recent archive also you can listen on your computer anywhere any time by going to the line of fire.for good second hour I'm going to be speaking with the author of a book for radical kids will a radical book for kids and with a fellow contributor of the streams got some some things to share about the pulp immigration and Steve Bannon 866-34-TRUTH of Prof. Susan sure ready for Huffington Post. The Bible tells us God is a God of truth and the truth will set us free. You choose someone who lives with impunity want to understand how you choose to ignore the evidences right from your eyes. Photos of the crowds at two different inaugurations. For example, at acceptance proved to be a lie.

Heavy support some of the rather correct the record doubles down his lies. Hey, I think it's unfortunate that the president's team made a big issue about inauguration numbers. I think it's it's trivial think it's lonely yourself to do and I think it's one of the weaknesses of Pres. Trump to constantly talk when himself and his popularity. Notice that it was a great distraction while he was working on other things he does for the media. The story, or even either way it's it's unworthy of the present leave leave some worth and so how do I support him. While I want to do better in these ways that so I voted for my voted for him blemishes and all. I voted for him because a vote for him was a vote against Hillary Clinton and a vote for some of the things that I felt were important some things that you dread terms of Supreme Court appointees or other stances he would take for religious freedoms and things like that is remote from blemishes and all some I'm not defending everything says and does. And I'm encouraging his faithful supporters not to not to defend everything he says and does US. This help me understand what you thought God could use a man who said he never asked God for forgiveness sincerely committed adultery city could grab me by the generals who cheated contractors and workers but didn't think I could use woman who's a Christian, lifelong Methodist and who from the heart quotes the Bible and John Wesley. When Trump didn't even know how to say second Corinthians which you called to Corinthians. When Esther's favorite Bible verse struggle to name one until he landed on an offer and I know Jesus said about that one.

Prof. Shaw I raise many of the same criticisms during the campaign and during the primaries, it supported and endorsed Sen. Cruz so I understand these issues well what we believe those that God can use unexpected people that he was the man Mike Sampson in the Bible is Sampson's rough edges and faults ended up destroying him, yet God used him is called a hero of the faith in the New Testament, God used a man like King Cyrus was was a pagan was an idol worshiper to do good for the people of Israel, God used a man like Winston Churchill who was was hardly a model Christian on my comparing Donald Trump or his past two.

Winston Churchill or Donald Trump's prankster was injured in any way. Simply saying that Winston Churchill was not the one that you might've thought of as defending the Christian West and in yet yet he did in the Christian civilization of Great Britain. So God can use unlikely people. What's fascinating in Scripture is that he often of the strongest rebukes for the religious and I would say that that's what makes a leaflet more culpable to to know the Bible clearly better than Donald Trump to be able to quote John Wesley farther than Donald Trump would Pres. Trump be able tell us exactly who John Wesley was when he lived in what he did.

Perhaps not in yet her views are so antithetical to Scripture in a number of key points of user views the John Wesley with absolutely categorically repudiate so that that's why we can vote for her and we did say although we want our president to share her or our morals or ethics and ultimately her belief that would be wonderful recognize right now in a very perilous and difficult situation in the nation and we need someone that's going to be somewhat of a wrecking ball as some have referred to it and someone who's gonna rock the boat are concerned.

It was at a wrecking ball to knock on the wrong buildings that's that's what we have to be very very careful about you said. I'm afraid that what you want is a nation that conforms to your interpretation of the Bible.

We believe that God's ways are best that lifelong marriage is better than serial fornication serial adultery that garbage bin for women and women for men that kids deserve the best opportunity to have a mom and a dad that lots of things like that that that's this will believe and so we want to advocate for the public square and an intervertebral this one advocate for and hopefully those those ways will prevail and more more people see those as good and life-giving believing that the sanctity of the life of the baby beginning in the womb. So that's were seeking to do Hillary Clinton.

She claimed to do what she does.

Based on being a Methodist, so she's trying to put her views on other people and their gay clergy that that present Obama worked with and they will see their views remain in their atheist was to their views and that's in our Democratic Republic. That's what worked for did to advocate our views and to see them try for the public square. You know the idea that if you follow Jesus you can possibly want a border wall if if there are a lot of people coming the country that should be here that are hurting other Americans, hurting families or individuals or the economy. Will you let's do something about that.

While having compassion on the genuine refugee the person really seeking help and really being in the that America's great strengths Kent can help and assimilate wonderful it in the Bible any refugee result will remember that it is logical to kill the Canaanites with the foreigners. The first farmers and counter the slaughter because these had such a history of wickedness for so many generations and centuries that that they would be wiped out, and then those outside of them that sought refuge under the wings of the God of Israel, they were warmly welcomed and we should we should warmly welcome those in genuine need to extend our country can assimilate them and those that will do us harm a thing to slaughter them, eradicate them, although she do her best to to to push back radical Islam, but we need to have security in this is that so hard to understand. I will hopefully hopefully Prof. so you respond to us seated to my article or best still come on the air and will have a discussion that's the goal right to sit down and have a discussion together.

Isaiah 118 God said to Israel, who love them, even for Collier Dove come now, let us reason together really debate the silence debate this out. Let's do it at the very least will better understand each other as fellow citizens of this great country needs God saw players. My bottom line today. Hey, don't sit down, talk could never get far in our usual from the president and the media to the Pope and immigration in a book for radical kids got it all coming your way today on the line of fire stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown so I had a very interesting conversation with someone today related to radio interview that I was doing and we were talking about kids growing up today and not sharing the values of their parents that I was in Canada and Saskatoon, Canada over the weekend and talking to one brother who heads up the Christian school so K-12 and another brother who heads up young adults as well. I guess one with the Bible school within adults. We were talking about how impact kids so that they walk long term in the Lord. We address that today I'm going to be joined by champ Fortin and I'm looking at his book, beautifully produced book the radical book for kids exploring the roots and shoots of faith.

This is Michael Brown and here's number to call 866-34-TRUTH 866-348-7884 that is the number to call if you have a question for my guest.

So I I was talking with an interviewer. This is off the year we were talking about issues having to do with marriage, family, and I said I heard this from another pastor that when my generation, 61, when my generation peers with homosexuality. We think an issue with the younger generation hears they think a person in the interviewer said what we do to help our kids if perhaps they don't share our values or we didn't do a good job of raising them in our values that's look I've spoken at churches with fine pastors and fine churches where the pastor said to BMI. My kids don't agree with me on these points know their 18 their 20 they don't agree with me on these points.

Obviously, the parents failed to adequately input divine truth. Divine life into those kids, so that when they were confronted with the alternative views of the society around them when they were confronted with things that go against biblical values and values of life and wholeness.

They were prepared to deal with them or the parents into an adequate job of keeping their kids out of wrong environments may be oblivious to knowing what was happening in the schools.

What was happening on on TV in the movies in social media, etc. and interestingly, when I finished saying this and then giving advice to the interviewer about how we should approach these things and if if her kids are alienated when we do to force when the back to the ward than win them over to biblical values students that they pray for me.

All my kids are in the 20s and 30s no longer believe what I believe on these issues that's it's it's a terrible shame it's it's a crying shame that this happens book of Proverbs remains true that if a child is trained up in the in the way should go when his old Walter portrait.

Sometimes there is a strain and and then over period of time people come back. That's because the roots of the plant to properly understand that, but weren't we living in a very challenging day were living in a day when it's harder to keep kids away from negative influences because of social media because the pervasiveness of media because of cell phones and Internet and other things. There are things that kids are exposed to. Now that when I was living in sin is a teenage rebel late 60s early 70s there. Things are 10-year-old can access a cell phone self unload this solidity and challenging times will talk with champ Fort without the radical book.

His solution shoots her plan by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown some weeks back that the copy of the book of beautifully produced book called the radical book for kids and radical the word radical goes back to word for roots. So it's beautiful. Cover with a tree with roots and then the branches and leaves shooting out for exploring the roots and shoots of faith. So I asked my assistant, Dylan hate. Take a look at this you're you're raising four kids. I think the oldest is nine Eurasian kids.

The books beautifully produced.

Take a look through it, the more foot through the more impressed with the layout and what's here what's what's going he said, hey, it looks really good. So great. Let's let's get the author on the air and were about to speak with champ Fortin is been associate pastor of Oldtown Baptist Church in Newark, Delaware since 2012, the previously pastor Grace Bible Church in South Carolina served as the director of soma, a ministry training school in Ohio and he has a deep passion for strength, curiosity and wonder, for Christ in God's word in the hearts of children, which led him to write several children's Bible curricula to God's love, a storybook Bible dynamic Christian living and exploring God's love and we're talking today with Kempthorne about his most recent book the radical book for kids.

He's married to his wife Robin and they have three children. They champ thanks so much for joining us on the broadcast today Michael it's great to be with you today. So tell me, sir. How is it that this became such a passion for your office and raise kids looking for creative ways to get our kids excited about God and the things of faith. Houses become such a passion for you. Writing always been a part of my life for a long time now.

Ever since the right. After seminary, but you know when kids came along you think about the next generation. You think I want to pour into my kids and a lot of the things that I've written have been for kids and you just you think I'm not just writing for kids out there I'm writing for my own kids and so out of that desire and the mission field right in front of me came of this book and the others. Why is it so critically important that we think of the kids as our kids as this mission field right in front of us is is is that something that perhaps we lose sight of God. Easy to do that I mean are there all the time and there, you know, just so familiar.

And that's a good thing having families are close and yet you know we have a responsibility as parents not just her to rear our children but to evangelize them and to prepare them for life after they leave our house and my wife and I leave that for a while now and keep it simple for a parent can be so complex. We want our kids to live in sync with reality. The reality of the world.

God is made, the reality of God himself on the reality of God is revealed in his word, and so that means the little one reality is we don't play on the stairs you get hurt. That's a reality there is another reality that I were all sinners and that God sent his son into the world to die in our place for our sins so that we might be forgiven and brought home to him. That's another reality. So we want our kids to live in all the reality of God's world and his word, and so that her calling as parents rights of your new book the radical book for kids. What makes this book radical well radical documented play on words so ketamine you know how barren and crazy and fun but also means serious as well and going down to the roots of our faith because the other the truth that as kids grow up, we want them also to grow down deep into the roots of our faith that they go into who God is, what is like what his word says about him and what it requires of us and so these are the kind of roots that enable young hearts and lives to stand strong even when the wind culture blow against them.

So that's where the idea radical comes from right so obviously you are writing for kids here of one age group are you shooting for Remy for ages eight and up so young younger readers, but I'm finding. Also, the parents are reading to their children, or even younger than age 8. I'm also finding that older teens and even adults. See the book and there like I I like that I want to read it because it is designed in a way that engaging really for a wide range of readership using radio hosts that the 61 ups in their think a look at this. This is interesting in that the biographies in the different charts.

I mean it's it's really beautifully laid out. Obviously not easy to produce this so as as you've tried some of these things out with your own children as you getting feedback from from other readers what is it that's grabbing the kids what's coming alive. Is there going through this book. I want to be serious fun boat together. That's the way God is a serious and get everything we enjoy in life comes right out of his creative heart and mind so creative and serious go together and I thought of one page you want them to enjoy a page of elephant jokes. My kids love the elephant jumped and then part of a chapter dealing with monsters in the Bible and we got right to the book of Job, and we learned a lot about how our God controlled even what we would consider uncontrollable things in life by looking at what God says about these wild animals at the end of the book of Job, and so we want to come couple of these kind of ideas together and we try to do that.

All throughout the book I so since this is intended to be a fun filled explorers died to the Bible Church history and life. You mentioned the example of God's monsters and the end of the book of Job. What are some of the other topics that you cover on this journey right so if you go to Amazon.com or just your bookstore down the street you'll find books American hundred things that every boy got an hour know how to do our girl want to know or know how to do, but they're all written from a secular perspective so this book tries to approach that same general plant from a Christian perspective so there are 67 many chapters throughout the book 2 pages the six pages per chapter and a cover topics like how to read your Bible, or basic ideas in theology who God is what he is like water is named apologetics basic life skills about making decisions. Her friends are Christian living what you do in your freighter.

How do you handle anger, how to handle when bad things happen to you. Also, church history at 12 little mini biographies of men and women of the church history, and then all sorts of other puzzles, jokes, pictures, challenges, hands-on activities, all sorts of things to engage just the whole spectrum of learning styles.

So let's let's pick out one example 11 of these 67. Many chapters in the book, let's let's talk about okay have got it 10-year-old granddaughter she's our youngest grandchild that says send to the book and she's gonna read about what to do when you're afraid how you can approach that how you can illustrate that for a kid that age right will start by actually trying to make them a little bit afraid and and and while were doing it.

Like maybe there's a spider crawling up your back right now.

But then we talk about you know we really are afraid of something sometimes and what fear really is the thing that looms large in our minds and things just take over.

But in the Bible God want him to loom largest in our mind and so it's almost counterintuitive, but really God wants us to fight fear with fear that we fear him so much that we hold him in such a high position in our mind that he's big and we are not that he is big and that the things that make us afraid are not that Mick puts are other fears and perspective that in comparison to our great and mighty and good and loving God who is to be feared. We don't have to be afraid.

And it is as far as church history attempt want what you think it's important for little children to know about church history. Will you note intercultural living today. It's easy to to the parent to put up protections around the children in our lives from the culture today, but a kind of isolation can become too isolated from you hundreds and hundreds of years of our spiritual lineage and there's so much to be to learn there and so when we learn about were not the only people that it stood for Jesus in dark times. There were not the only people that faced adversity or faith confusing times and we learn how men and women. Some of them very famous. You might recognize these names. Others never heard of before, but all kinds of people have stood for Jesus and loved him and loved his word for hundreds of years and I want my children and others to know that they're not alone in their walk with Jesus.

These you also have practical activities and things of that or or the hands-on activities, practical advice, such as how to clean your room. What to do when you're angry. So as you give an example of one of the fun hands-on activities that you put in the radical book for kids thought of them.

I kid with cleaning the room part of the fun ones but antiphon when I tell about how I never kept my room clean and with the lessons I learned there so they think that that's fun but you know there is an activity about how to make a kid friendly slingshot or little catapult out of tongued oppressors because you little mini marshmallows or how to make a real sundial that works or pottery or flatbread, or 3000-year-old boardgame or how to tie different kind of knocked into a rope and so here are some of these hands-on activities and all of them connect back with Scripture and ways that not only provide an activity or provide something for their heart to meditate on as well assassinate white friends. I got a couple more questions for champ Fortin's new book, the radical book for kids that we can try to paint a picture of what the format looks like it's one of the most beautifully attractively illustrated books that got my hands on a long time as this shot full great information to make a confession. Dad knows grandfather become that there is the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Looking back, friends to the line of fire. Talking with Pastor champ Fortin you connect with them online.

It champ Fortin.calm were talking in particular about his new book the radical book for kids exploring the roots and shoots of faith and champ. I was just recording some TV shows in Florida last week so to make sure that your outfit looks good and is the camera lights and got your powder makeup on the gotta keep checking to make sure that that Harris don't get out of place notes TV. I was invoice nice doing radio because I couldn't I could. I love going to be going to sit here behind my behind my mic it. I have to look perfect that I could have my shirt is not the euro perfectly ironed and whatever but man I wish I wish it was TV now because I'm I'm holding this beautiful book. Beautifully illustrated hardcover every every page different colors, different layout so attractive looking here, you get the Old Testament sacrifices in the burnt offering a grain offering to get the fire in the middle on the altar and so I tried to paint a picture of my listeners again of him flipping through the pages, but there there listening can you paint a picture of the formatting of this book so I'll do my best, but I first of all, this time I did not lay the book out myself.

I didn't design.

We have a design team with her publisher new growth, press, and they did a fantastic yeah I know this is to see a team effort know very clearly that it only and so there's full-color, and there are charts and pictures and little factoids and jokes and photographs and drawings of people and places and rents and activities all throughout the book.

It's just a kaleidoscope of colors and textures in terms of the kinds of material and information that there so there's something for every learning style we wanted things in math with history and literature in the languages and apologetics in science we have. We have topics all over the board and to attract a wide range of about kids with her interest dark.

It's written not only were people who are readers kids who like to read, but also for those who are nonreaders. It's not even just written for Christians, but even written for non-Christians.

We don't take any don't have any assumptions that there can understand Christian terminology.

We try to explain it, and occasionally we even give out how you pronounce a particular term because it's kind of confusing so we hopefully find that it's very engaging these easy God. The Greek alphabet to teach a kid that was in the Greek alphabet and then you write sentences English sentences in Greek to see if they could figure out this test. I very, very clever again friends really are picturing the book is nicer and I have no idea how the publisher can even put this at I mean it's it's it's a lot to put this out like this and this will engage kids in easy for parents interact so I said before the break that there is a confession out. I was gonna make when large orders were growing up, and maybe after dinner we were going to sit around the table. I was going to do a little Bible study work in the morning we were gonna talk and pray and worship in their little Bible study. I had more trepidation about that than I did facing off against a major rabbi in a debate or preaching to an angry crowd overseas. I Joseph I can connect. Will they listen will drive the right words and and a lot of parents feel like if I just know how to connect and make things spiritual. So, so, what advice would you give of this is something else called you to not just as a father and husband but also as a Christian leader some practical tips. Parents want to get more involved with their kids spiritual they don't they don't want to squeeze them work or put them in in a fishbowl. So everything they do is being examined for some practical tips from your own experience and what you recommend. So if a parent has not been engaging with her kids over things of the Lord like they should then click start, the place where we start with every area and likely fallen short of what God expects from us and that's repentance, so we need to confess that is sent to the Lord and then probably to her family, a dad not been up quite leading her family like I need to. Would you forgive me and pray for me because I need to do this better be patient with me as I do it so much is be honest with our kids think can help them understand when you know we understand that were not perfect and then beyond that, a great place to start. I think with something someone put my wife and I own two years ago is the sound so take a short sound like someone or some 23 or maybe some 100 and even if your kids are too young to read read through out loud that Psalm slowly, maybe two, three, four, five, six times together as a family out loud you surprised that you know within just a few times of doing that.

Maybe within a week to pick it up and before you know it.

Everyone can have it memorized and then he can recite it by memory together and then move on to the next Psalm and voted is wonderful times getting God's word slowdown.

Think about what it says and then give you opportunity to talk about the said he lead us beside still waters what you think that means you start talking about what we just read from Psalms yet again practical tips and with everything make the investment of time and energy and spiritual focus, and we do know champ that all around the world. The vast majority people come to faith come to faith earlier in life is much easier for kids they raised in the faith to walk with the Lord than to reach out to someone years later that's never had a relationship with God.

So again, this is the mission field right in in our own home. And lastly, just to be clear, you think that 10-year-old 12-year-old kid that's reader would be interested in this book on their own or does it require a parent to read together with the kids. It certainly doesn't require the parent to be reading it to their kids. I've seen pictures of the people sent to me on Instagram or other places where 10-year-old nine-year-old grabbed the book on the couch with a blanket and there just in growth. This is an alternative. The screen time they can read straight through her leg hopscotch around picking up chapter. They want things that interest them. Or I've seen pictures that people sent me about dad on the couch with all the kids and they're going through a chapter a night as part of their Bible time together so all all the above will need listen, I'm going to get this in the mail to Arturo 10-year-old they live in the state of just about six hours away song and send her a surprise.

The parents know it's coming and will will do her own test case here. Having gotten that the thumbs up for my assistant with the with his four kids, let's let's see what happens now. Will we be tried out with one of her grandkids, but only problem is it's it's so interesting. It is the kind of thing that I think parents again want to read with their children and champ. This is such an important area and something where were parents the tools and help so I appreciate you doing this, the new book the radical book for kids exploring the roots and shoots of faith. Champ Fortin is the author hope you get lots of new readers through this and may the Lord's lesson be on your labors to be with your appreciate your time. You bet.

All right, 86634 we come back after the break we are totally changing gears and I'm going to bring back on the line of fire shortly. John's neurotic he is an editor and senior contributor to the stream published by James Robison read all of my articles they are most all of them every week at stream.org, but we come back. I want talk about Texas and North Carolina. They are joined. Right now, not just in the fact that you're listening to me all over North Carolina and folks listening over Texas but for some common issues were facing right that it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown will you know the saying don't mess with Texas yet well Texas North Carolina. Not only are many of you listening to me in Texas and in North Carolina right now, but you are facing some similar situations. North Carolina has been punished for HB to which, as its largest goal, said that men who identify as women cannot use the men's locker room and bathroom and think or excuse me, the women's bathroom and locker room and things like that in our schools and in the YMCA and that kind of place. Well, we have been punished by big business.

We have been punished by sports, and when the city of Houston passed a similar bill couple years back used and was told that they might not get the Super Bowl in fact, the Super Bowl did happen in Houston that did go ahead, but now there are threats coming the way of Texas. This is Michael Brown you're listening to the line of fire.

I've got a note here at media release from Pastor David Welch on behalf of the pastor's counsel and its pastors callout NFL for personal foul and threatening Texas and there's been some pushback from the government as well.

The coalition of pastors that includes those who live the feet of Houston's equal rights ordinance does the bathroom those issued a response to the report with the NFL's no warning Texas against proposed legislation to keep boys and girls restrooms SB six, sponsored by Sen. Lois call course to heavily supported by Lieut. Gov. Dan Patrick will establish a statewide uniform standard Allstate local government buildings, including schools that boys, girls, men and women must use the restroom shower locker room of the sex identified on their birth certificate.

If the NFL is say well you do that, where you take sports events away and this and that. Well, here's what they say in response. We demand to know what role the NFL hasn't dictating the values of Texas interfering was something outside of regular Nuance workplace are women and children in harms way to your preference to 1/10 of 1% were confused about their gender was Gov. Greg Abbott is as well. Pushback on this like correctable devotional a tweet to that affect me all North Carolina Gov. Randa Roy Cooper is proposing for a compromise to HB two, but according to the North Carolina values coalition governments compromise simply rebranding of Roy Cooper's bathroom plan to allow a grown man unrestricted access into those bathrooms, locker room and changing facilities, which increases the risk of sexual assault and compromises the privacy and dignity of all women. Gov. Cooper needs to explain to the people North Carolina why he values political correctness over respecting and protecting the privacy and safety of women and children were paragraph once a man is given free access to women's bathrooms by repealing HB to increasing his criminal penalties for sexual assault is like granting fees free access into the privacy of your home with a promise to prosecute them. If you witnessed them stealing repeal as outlined by Cooper is also an invitation to city leaders were anxious to pasture type ordinances to force Cooper's bathroom plan on the entire state force business owners to choose between government coercion to participate in events and speech which violate their beliefs or suffer frivolous and costly lawsuits. We want to be sensitive to the struggles of all people would be sensitive to those who struggle with their gender identity. We do not want to put the confusion struggles of a tiny percentage of the population on the well-being, comfort and security of the population as a whole don't want to open the door to heterosexual predators who will use these laws and have used these laws and ordinances to continue with their voyeurism or worse. This is well documented so but common sense prevail. And let's not bow down to the bullies do it's right because it is right will be right back with John Sirach and when you have a very interesting discussion. Trust. Trust in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown thank you for joining us today on the modify Michael around the lighted to be with you one of my joys and do what I do is to do together with coworkers read what they have to say. Listen to what they have to say and we learn from one another and one of my esteemed coworkers on the stream stream.org published by James Robison is John's neurotic and John's writings got my attention early on as a stream because they were provocative. They were thoughtful and they got a lot of attention rightly so. And as a Catholic.

He is addressing issues having to do with the Pope and the Catholic Church in a way that I don't even attempt to, but also connected in other areas of our society sharing our conservative Christian values are biblical worldview, so it's great to have a job back on the air with us. Thanks for joining us today.

Thank you articles for Kentucky.

I was enjoy your will. Thank you. You never a dull moment.

These days, before we talk about some of the subjects you want to get into the pulp and immigrations Bannon we we wrote similar articles you wrote yours first. I was thinking of writing and then you wrote yours and I wrote mine from a slightly different angle versus getting a lot of attention about progressive Christians. The best Christians ever wonder what's this notion that you were addressing this kind of spiritual pride of this new Christianity which is in many ways Harley Christian at all.

How does it see itself. Help on the model of modern science. You know, because dentists are clearly a lot better than the dentist who existed when Jesus and the apostles were alive and think you'll agree with your right so surely the theologians are better yet merely yes unclear.okay surely the theologians are better to me. We had all this time to study. We had all the text pretty.

We have we have scriptural textual study, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls. The idea that there is a progressive learning that we know more than our ancestors theologically. It's a very tempting thing. If you if you follow the model science because we do no more than our ancestors in terms of medicine, and geology. Intrinsic right so it must be the same, theologically, and therefore modern day Christians must must be more enlightened than than those of us still holding to these primitive views that would have been more in keeping with say with Moses and Paul and Jesus actually thought I had a right right that traditionally really Christians but traditionally we thought the close you were to Jesus to close you were the apostolic model under the earliest writing, the culture were to the essential Christianity will leave God as we were first, the traditional Christian way of looking at it, which is that we try to emulate the apostles because they sat at Jesus either learn directly from the sort in progressive circles, it's much more who has advanced degrees who is associated with prestigious institutions like Yale Divinity school or Georgetown, or in other Catholic equivalents about things and received court that that the church is that that that followed this model are vanishing, not no one. No one attending the church at those churches don't change why churches don't transform heart and there's a reason for that is that the progressive model doesn't apply to Christianity doesn't apply to Judaism.

These are religions of Revelation are not religions of research that are not something that would work in a lab will produce better and better result. So you're seeing. These churches are weakening and fading away but nevertheless the temptation is always to listen to the world rather than the church in the world is telling us that today's more today's sexual ethics.

Today's political view clearly are better than what came last year, just like your iPhone is better than it would've been five years ago were struggling against the profound general culture and it also attention tendency apply to think that we are so much wiser than our ancestors because we have better teeth and we gave more often. Clearly we are closer to God's law. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Kind of absurd.

If you really examine it yet and CS Lewis also spoke of that cultural arrogance that whatever is newer must be better in your writing is not in chronological snobbery.

Yeah exactly because of snobbery and it was interesting with Judaism. Judaism believes that Moses received things directly from God was the closest to the revelation that every generation since then has been on spiritual decline and that's why it's essential to to listen to the Bible into the rabbinic writings and in those of the foundations but again this is based on Revelation in terms of a Jewish perspective. So who should we believe about Jesus.

Maybe Peter, Paul, John, who were there and and and and Peter John eyewitnesses and Paul encountered the risen Savior and their all work together. In that respect in the in the first century should we believe what they have to say about Jesus or about the words of a contemporary theologian who doesn't believe Jesus rose from the dead. I mean it's bizarre to think of Nina that we interpret their words in life somehow doesn't believe it happened right in the microcap political area. You see a lot of progressive Christians believe in same-sex marriage. They believe in open borders that any limitation immigrations wrong. Some of them are passive that they think it's wrong to fight in self-defense and I would I would say while the cultural arrogance look back for 2000 years virtually no mainstream Christian believe any of the things all these things. Things are trends that emerged mostly in the 1960s in elite mainline Protestant circles among churches that are virtually get and yet we are supposed to believe that they got it right. But 2000 years of Christian got it wrong what what happened with their new revelation that happened in 1968, maybe at Woodstock.

Maybe after somebody smoked something you know I don't think it's essential to do the test different tradition, human traditions, but the divine tradition the passing along of what Jesus said if if no Christian for 2000 years thought are working on. No significant group of Christians.

No Christian country ever thought we have to disarm and let ourselves be conquered.

We can't defend ourselves against invaders. We can't think if we can't keep up behind the Vandals in the Visigoths because the Bible said to welcome the stranger mean you you don't find any record of Christian country behaving the way these people say it is Christlike to pay what they're implicitly saying is aware better than all the Christians in history.

You know they were all corrupted by the world. They were all engaged in violence in and defending nationhood in poverty and these are all all terrible things that Jesus would never do, which I know from know because I renewed just reading the New Testament. I know that Jesus wouldn't do that all the Christian between me and Jesus were wrong and I'm right and you begin to see the spiritual and intellectual pride there and also the absurdity of thinking that our generation is the first one to really understand Christianity yeah and and also even some of the double standards that, for example, when when the Pope criticized some things that Donald Trump had said the people point out don't you live inside walls in the Vatican, or running around all yeah you know our statement on immigration are absurd. There actually in violation of what the official Catholic Church teaches go to the catechism of the Catholic Church that the repository what Is possibly and if you read what it says on immigration.

It read like the 2016 Republican national platform and what what president, what would Pope Francis is saying sound like something George Soros scribbled on a cocktail napkin.

You really are and so let let's let's stop there. Let's focus there for a moment.

I am a Catholic Sunil. I don't know how this works but what one of the rights of a Catholic to dissent from what the Pope has to say what is considered to be a good a good Catholic protest to a pope that you feel this is not being faithful to seditious handset has at work and how are you viewed as you take issue you're only bound when the Pope repeat what the church has always taught you become doubled in inundation, you're not bound by that. In fact, it might be your duty to condemn what we have here. The Pope saying things that turned out to be heresy, and other Catholics criticized them and they were attracted got goes back to Paul rebuking Peter at the first Council of the apostle felt that the Pope did not have the power to reinvent Christianity is not an Oracle.

He doesn't receive revelation from God. None of these things are what we believe we there is one narrow doctrine called infallibility, which said that if Paul invokes his full following authority to speak to clarify a point of doctrine and let everyone know he's invoking that full authority.

It has the same authority at the Council of Nicaea or the early councils of the church in that God will protect it from heresy. God would not allow hope to see Karis easily. He was alive at night. He is always a lease I friends I'm not. Catholics are not bound by that. I appreciate John even explain the narrow nature that's a come back let's talk more about the Christian view on immigration was the Steve Bannon guy anyway, which we think the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown I'm speaking with John's Iraqi as an editor and senior computer at the stream was a PhD in English literature ZMIR a K you will thoroughly enjoy his columns. Make sure you visit regularly stream.org to read the latest of what John has to say you jump on it when it comes to the immigration issues. What I find galling is when people say will. The Bible says care for the refugee of their court. In the Old Testament and in many people quoting the Old Testament attack the Old Testament all the time they attacked the authority of the Old Testament, they attacked the God of the Old Testament, they attacked the laws of the Old Testament, but they do pull out while you're supposed to care for the refugee. They also forget that God told us to Israel in the in the context of of slaughtering their enemies all the surrounding hostile nations are supposed to wipe out and then if you have someone from a the more distant country that wants to take refuge under the wings of the God of Israel to welcome that person would then live by the laws of Israel, etc. so if it's such a hypocritical use of Scripture.

In such an unbalanced use of Scripture.

If you use it using context and for improperly treated but no just care for the refugee means don't have vetting to keep at a Muslim terrorist it's it's bizarre very ideologically motivated. I like to tell people to think book of the Bible also says EQ shall not suffer a witch to live that up there willing to burn witches.

I'm willing to open the board that let's be consistent.

And yes, let's recognize there's a call for compassion in it and let's let's just do it wisely, that that's over, since let's do it wisely and and right now this just just before look at the larger issue of immigration as someone that considers himself to have a conservative biblical worldview you feel obligated to support enthusiastically every tweet every decision every word from the president know that the president for continuing the Obama policy falsely applying the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to a homosexual and transgender people like I I'm quite outraged at that. I feel like it, but the trail and if Trump doesn't go back doesn't doesn't reverse that if he continued to defer to the pro-gay contingent in his administration.

I will feel profoundly with trade and I'm not afraid to talk about right so so this is not just a matter of everybody's in lockstep conformity.

This is a matter of whoever's leaving our nation. We want to do our best to appeal to them to do what is right in the best interest of the nation and if we voted for them all the more we say he made promises were expecting you to keep those so the larger immigration issue of what you think is motivating the Pope and where is he fundamentally missing things. I think the Pope is a left-wing utopian, and that he regard the nationstate fundamentally to legitimate, especially in the case of Western nation to be advanced developed nations.

He thinks that they don't. We don't have the right to protect our cultural heritage are our accumulated property are civic order.

We just don't have the right to protect the and he wants. He is promoted the idea of a global government that would redistribute the wealth that you tried to help you undo data via the climate climate. The protective climate change. I think the Pope is a check in an accident along the lines of the secular utopian by George Soros immediately invited Ban Ki-moon and Jeffries back at the Vatican.

The current this week.

They're having population control activist Paul Ehrlich speak at the Vatican at a conference on biodiversity and a number of other population control people. Paul Ehrlich favors coercive sterilization of the poor and favors abortion is a staggering scandal that Pope Francis is inviting the anti-Christian figure who represent the philosophy of the antichrist is inviting them to speak in world and that this is a radical violation of what all his predecessors did.

Pope John Paul II spoke firmly against the evil of abortion in the fall of the population control. So did Pope Benedict it if you knew if you knew a lot of talent, you wouldLIKE to on the front lines of the pro-life movement in the profamily movement for decades. We see this Pope is an unmitigated catastrophe and were waiting for God to make them kind of action to correct them one way or the other but were just waiting out catastrophic.

In the history of the church that it makes the popes of the Renaissance were selling indulgences look like St. Peter. By comparison, well I strong words, but I expect nothing less from you. John not disappointed in the strength your words in that regard, and then at last. We've only got two minutes, but you have tracked and followed things with Steve Bannon more carefully than I have.

He was Senior editor Breitbart.com so very, very large and very influential strongly right wing website and now as a key advisor to the president and he's being demonized for sure who.

Who is he, really, what should we know about Steve Bannon Ronald Reagan conservative and if you were alive during regular ministration. Remember how Ronald Reagan was demonized by the media. He was treated at a crazy hothead eager to start a nuclear war with the Soviet Union to the point where Ted Kennedy went behind the scene.

I got in touch with the head of the Soviet Union trying to get propaganda from the Russian stock Ronald Reagan being elected.

I remember the hysterical hatred of Ronald Reagan in exactly the same as the hatred of Bannon at everybody's ground Steve Bannon ordinary patriotic American who regards global globalism United Nations, George Soros and the transnational organization regard to direct American sovereignty and the best interest of American taxpayers and voters in. He also is again like financial elite lookout for the felt way the banks got bailed out in 2008 after having gambled with their investors money I lost. The taxpayers had to pay it all back even cast into the popular anger, righteous anger, the kind of insider deals and that the way that large corporations work with the Democratic Party to ensure large levels of immigration that depress wages for the working class and provide voters of the Democratic Party. None of this is outside the mainstream had anything to do with race or religion or extremism either simply using speaking the truth to power into the powerful are trying to silence him that all the God it I friends you can read more in depth of what John's breath has to say about Steve Bannon about the Pope and others streamed our work and I'm looking at John's latest article right on the stream far left Trump haters calling for genocide against white people.

John there. There is this an ounce of of hype and that's that's in a factual headline, is it not yeah read the article at one of the cofounders of black lives matter being white is a genetic defect. Another activist for the black lives matter were to the New York Daily News is saying the government needs to round up white people that their threat to society is the coaching in the black lives matter when the founders explained hate well because whites because of that there was a melatonin that the same skin qualities. They can't they can take in light the same way Blacks do. So that's also like spiritual and moral white oil boy.

Hey read the article keep up with John over the screen.

Great talking to you man thoroughly enjoyed it always in the God's blessing on you in the head. I friends my bottom line today. Yeah a lot of junk going on around us. The truth is it a try