LETS GO

The question is, are you ready? This is The Drive with Josh Graham.

We're on a walk in here. On Sports Hub Triad. Welcome to A Friday Drive, where Clemson fans are really going through it today. I was a guest on a Clemson radio station earlier, and oh boy, it was doom and gloom now that Tony Elliott has officially accepted the head coaching job at Virginia. That means in the last week, Clemson has lost its AD, both of its coordinators, and have had three top 100 recruits de-commit. So that just means it'll be Wake Forest and NC State competing for the Atlantic next year.

Right? I'd pump the brakes on that. Just because I think little ol' Clemson's gonna be fine.

And they're probably gonna be the favorite to win the league next year, rightfully so. Let's not overreact to the news cycle. Coaching turnover, it's part of the job when you're at Clemson. It's not new for Dabo Sweeney, and he's pretty good at this. We've learned in past instances. Dabo, once upon a time in 2014, was seen as the figure head coach without any coordinator experience that was really gonna have a difficult time in 2014 replacing Chad Morris.

I remember this being a conversation point. He had left to become a head coach, I think at SMU, and this is before Clemson ever went to the college football playoff. Then he promoted from within little-known coaches named Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott to be co-offensive coordinators.

And wouldn't you know it, the next year Clemson started this run of going to consecutive college football playoffs that ended this year, and is now bookended with Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott both being head coaches. Jeff Scott a couple years ago hired at USF, and Tony Elliott now going to Charlottesville. Dabo, he hired from within, he does a good job grooming coaches. And it seems like on the defensive side, they already have a guy behind the scenes. They really like to step into Brent Venable's shoes.

The reports say it's Wes Goodwin, who I've done a little bit of investigating on, talking with some folks. Apparently, he's the guy that's big on analytics, big on film study where you can, when it seems like Clemson knows what the other team is doing formationally and with its plays, he apparently is a big part of it. If Brent Venables was ever to miss a game because of COVID protocols or anything of that sort, the stand-in coach would not have been one of the defensive position coaches, it would have been Goodwin. So it seems like he's the common sense replacement for Brent Venables. The reaction to that is going to be, you could have gotten Muschamp or one of these bigger names. Why are you hiring from within? Clemson is going to be on its way down.

I'm preparing you for this now. Dabo is pretty good at this because he has to know he could pull a top coordinator from anywhere in America. Clemson pays assistance pretty much more than everybody across the country. It's why Venables was offered so many jobs over the last few years. It required Oklahoma, where he had worked for a dozen years, to offer him the head coaching job for him to leave Clemson. He was pretty comfortable, both Elliott and Brent Venables. Let's not forget, before this run of playoff success, before the national championships, before all these great recruiting rankings, which has jumped up the talent level at Clemson in the last decade, Clemson had the resources and the money to pry Venables away from Bob Stoops' sideline, where Venables was the associate head coach and defensive coordinator to come to little old Clemson. Think about that.

That was in 2012. So who's the coordinator in America you don't think Dabo Sweeney can get if he doesn't want him? And I think that's probably what they're going to do on the offensive side. I think they're going to find a big ticket coach who is either a head coach somewhere else that was fired, or a Joe Brady type, or one of the top coordinators in college football right now, and convince them to come to little old Clemson.

They're going to be fine. Clemson wasn't bad this year. Even though they didn't win the Atlantic, it was a pretty impressive coaching job given all the injuries they had, including defensive player of the year in the preseason, Brian Bresee out for the year, injured in the state game. Will Shipley missing half the year, losing two of the greatest players, not just in Clemson history, but in the history of the Atlantic Coast Conference, Trevor Lawrence and Travis Etienne, despite all of that, they still won nine games.

They still went six and two. They still were in a position going into the final week of the season, where they could have extended their streak of going to Charlotte. So next year, I think they're going to be fine. This year, they're going to have a top 10 recruiting class again, which will be the fifth consecutive year they've had a top 10 class. They'll have more talent than anybody else. They're going to be playing NC State at home. The Wolfpack haven't won at Death Valley since Philip Rivers was playing quarterback. And we already saw what Clemson this year was able to do against the Atlantic champion, Wake Forest Stephen Deakins, and that's beat them by 20 points. So let's not overreact. Clemson is going to be fine.

Don't bury them. They're probably going to be the favorites to win the ACC next year, or at least they should be. On Twitter, at WSJS Sports, if you want to chime in on today's show, it's The Drive with Josh Graham. Hey, that's me.

Robert Wallace is the producer of this show, taking your phone calls at 336-777-1600. We'll get to Panthers Falcons in about 10 minutes. For the second straight night, ACC hoops didn't slip up.

How about that? Pittsburgh held on against the toothpaste. Got a little ugly at points, but they beat Colgate. Good for Jeff Caple. He should enjoy every win they get this year because there's not going to be a lot of those. Then there was NC State, which impressively chalked up both a win and a loss last night.

And here's what I mean. The Pack controlled Bethune-Cookman, which they should have. 1-17 going into Reynolds Coliseum. Jumped out to a 9-0 lead, never trailed. But did let Cookman hang around a little bit in the second half.

But a win-to-win, and certainly a 17-point win is a 17-point win. Then I flipped the channel to the game that was going on at Piscataway, where No. 1 Purdue lost to the Rutgers Scarlet Knights.

Why is that important? NC State's next game is two days from now against No. 1 Purdue. Regardless of what happens Sunday, Purdue is probably not going to be the No. 1 team when the rankings come out on Monday, which means it'll be the third straight week that No. 1 was unseated with their first loss of the year. Gonzaga beat Duke, or Duke beat Gonzaga, I should say. The following week, Duke was beaten by Ohio State, and then this week, Purdue losing to Rutgers.

It happened in remarkable fashion. Robert, I think we have the play-by-play call lined up here. This is the Rutgers radio call from last night. I always love game-winning calls, and this is what it sounded like on the Rutgers radio network when the Scarlet Knights beat No. 1 Purdue at the horn.

Let's go! First time in program history that they have beaten a No. 1 team.

But they're going to check the tape. Score the basket. Ball game.

Let's go! And the student in storm the court. Leave it to the analyst, Robert, to always jump over the play-by-play guy in that moment. Every single time that happens. How long until you actually expect analysis from the color analyst short of saying the same two words Let's go! over and over again? At what point Let's go!

do you become a professional and tell us Let's go! more about what's happening? I could really care less. I think that was pretty hype. It doesn't matter to me. You're going to know what it was whether at the end or not. You know what happened.

You know what happened. You're right. And Rutgers fans, that's who they're talking to. They probably love it. Just like I can listen to the App State call all day of the Michigan win where Dave Jackson's getting trampled over the entire time. I love calls like this. I really do.

But I'll tell you who probably doesn't love it. NC State. Because you got Purdue up next and that's going to be a crispy bunch Sunday afternoon.

Two o'clock. It is the Hall of Fame Invitational at Barclay Center in Brooklyn. And Purdue, see North Carolina fans already know all about this because the Tar Heels lost by nine to this team at Mahigan Sun. But FSU got hammered by this group last week. I think they lost by 18. This team, Purdue also has wins against Iowa and Villanova. So last night, I felt old when Ron Harper Jr. was the one hitting that shot at the end. Unbelievable sequence there. But I also felt bad for State. Because right when you get a win and you're feeling good. Hey, we're seven and two. Yeah. And we're going to have a shot against the number one team. Then you see that number one team go down in that type of fashion and I've got a feeling with all the talent that number one team has when you're facing a pissed off version of that group, probably not going to go well for you.

The man is a lunatic. Smells like a gym bag. The Drive with Josh Graham on WSJS Sports.

And I just can't live without you. We're going to have state championship football tonight, right? WSJS Sports. Dudley facing JH Rose in Chapel Hill. The man who will be calling that game for us, Dave Pulaski, will drop by in five minutes. But before we get to him, the great Susie Kolber is reporting Duke football news.

You heard that right. Where she says that according to her sources, which I have to imagine is Jason Garrett himself, hence her being on the NFL end of things, that Jason Garrett, I'll just read her tweet. Hearing Jason Garrett is a front runner for the Duke head coaching job. Having witnessed Garrett behind the scenes speaking to teaching young men, incredibly powerful and truly inspirational. A great fit.

Hope this happens. You and me both, Susie Kolber. Because earlier this week, I'll be honest, I dismissed the idea.

I thought it was ridiculous. But today, more and more I've thought about this. I think I've come around on the idea of Garrett and Durham. And it seems pretty clear that he wants the job too. We were talking to Steve Wiseman about it yesterday. And Steve doesn't know where things stand between Duke and Garrett, but does know that Garrett really wants the job. It's not the other way around, like some would perceive it to be. That Duke might go shooting for an NFL coach who just so happens to be a Duke fan, rather than the former NFL coach who's never coached in college at all, not even as an assistant, being interested in coaching the Blue Devils.

Here's why I think it works. He gets how private schools operate. That's a big part of the deal. It's why Mike Elko is a safe hire for them, why he's flown up the tiers to be the betting favorite right now, if there was such a thing, to be Duke's next coach. He is a former Ivy Leagueer at Penn. Jason Garrett used to play quarterback at Princeton. And he is a huge Duke fan. A close friend of Mike Krzyzewski has gone in and spoke to the team a handful of times, been on campus a handful of times.

It just makes a lot of sense to me. And he was the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. I know we can have some of these NFL opinions seep into our psyche here as it relates to college and think, oh, that guy didn't get it done in New York, and this guy wasn't great with the Cowboys, but he was still the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys and the offensive coordinator for the New York Giants earlier this year. How is that not higher up on your coaching rankings than the assistant coach at Texas A&M?

You see what I'm saying here? If you want to find somebody that Coach Cut can't coach circles around to replace him, well, Jason Garrett is one of those guys. He knows ball.

I think pretty clearly. And I'm not concerned that he hasn't recruited in the past. Every football player is going to know who he is. He was the coach of the Dallas Cowboys a couple years ago. Everybody's going to know who he is.

All of them. He played in the NFL for the Cowboys. And if you're worried about compliance and NCAA issues that might come out of this, look at the year we're sitting in. It's 2021. The NCAA is not as power. The NCAA is the weakest it's been in our lifetimes, and NIL has made things a lot easier from a compliance standpoint, too. He was the head coach of the Cowboys. Of course he could coach the Duke Blue Devils. And it would be a big swing. I love it when organizations, when colleges, when programs take swings, when they take stabs in the dark.

I love it. That's why I didn't knock Matt Ruhle for hiring Joe Brady, even though it didn't work, even though he didn't meet him before. He saw what LSU was doing, thought, yeah, I'll go out of my comfort zone, we'll make that happen. And here you have a former NFL head coach who's a fan of your school who went to an Ivy League school that really wants the job, it seems like. Selfishly, I hope it happens, because it would make Duke football more interesting. It would make the ACC more interesting. And it has a better shot of Duke being a consistent winner, whatever that looks like, versus, say, hiring the assistant coach from Texas A&M.

That's my two cents on it. Do we have Dave Pulaski joining us now? Dave Pulaski going to be on the call. Is it 7 o'clock or 7.30 kick that we have here, Dave? 7 o'clock kick from Keenan Stadium tonight, Josh. 6.30 pregame, 7 o'clock kick. It's going to be Dudley going up against J.H. Rose High School from eastern North Carolina for the 3A title in Chapel Hill. You called Dudley last week, and they took care of business. How much do you like their chances tonight after scouting the ramparts of J.H.

Rose? Well, I mean, you have to like their chances. But the way that they've been rolling through these playoffs, even against the tougher competition, and that was part of the criticisms about them during the regular season. It was, how are they going to step up when the competition gets tougher? Well, throughout these entire playoffs, they've done so. They took down Statesville on the road 20 to 6, and then they returned the opening kickoff for a touchdown last week against South Point. That really set the tone in that 38-0 victory.

Yeah, and both schools have produced a lot of college talent. Follow Dave on Twitter at Dave Palaski. Listen to the game right here on WSJS Sports, or you can find it streaming on the app or online. What piece of prep have you done for this game for either side that you're just hoping there's an opportunity tonight to work it in? Wow. Man, that's a good question. I mean, there's so much history between these two programs. J.H. Rose in the early 2000s won 21 straight playoff games, four straight state titles. They've won five overall. Dudley's going after their seventh state title in program history, their fifth while in the NCHSAA. So there's a lot of history and a lot of tradition between these two, and these two almost met in two previous championship games, although they've never actually met before. In 2013, Dudley ended up winning the state championship.

J.H. Rose got bounced in the semifinals before Dudley ended up winning the title that year. And then in 2015, Dudley lost in the semifinals to Charlotte Catholic.

And then J.H. Rose lost in the championship game to Charlotte Catholic. So these two teams have been around each other a lot. They just haven't gone head-to-head previously. And I have it right that this is the Triads' only shot at a state title this year. Do I have that right?

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, with the elimination of subdivisions, you only have four championship games instead of eight like you have in previous years. And it's a testament to what Dudley's been able to do because it's a longer playoff. So as a result, you've basically gone through a half a season just to reach this point. You're playing your sixth game of the playoffs tonight, and now you have a shot at a state title.

So it just speaks to the talent level, the depth, and the experience of Dudley in these situations. Do you remember a year the Triad didn't win a state championship, at least in the years that you've covered? In the six years? No, there was 2017. Reidsville was the only team to make it to the state championship game.

It was right here at Cayman Stadium. They played Wallace Rosehill, who had a running back by the name of Jontay Williams, who ended up at North Carolina. On the first play from scrimmage, he runs 73 yards for a touchdown, and right in the Tar Heels' backyard.

I'm sure that caught a couple of recruiters' attention. He ends up going to Carolina, gets drafted by the Broncos in the third round of the NFL draft this year, and is putting forth a stellar rookie season. But that was a thriller of a game that Wallace Rosehill won 35-28 in overtime. That was the last time the Triad did not win a state title. It's been four years. Wow. Well, let's hope that Dudley gets a win tonight, and we look forward to listening to you on the call tonight at 7 o'clock with a 6.30 pregame. Dave, have a great call in Chapel Hill tonight. Thanks, Josh.

It's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, there he goes. Dave Pulaski joining us here. And what he described there about Javonte, who was the second round pick in this year's draft, is spot on because he went to a small school, once again, another school in eastern North Carolina called Wallace Rosehill High School. And North Carolina just had an extra scholarship hanging around four years ago, and they were watching this game because it was in Chapel Hill, and Larry Fedora liked to watch the state title games.

And as he mentioned, opening kick was ran back. Larry started asking, well, who is this guy? And it turns out he didn't have any offers at any other FBS schools, or at least not Power Five, and he offered them after the game. And that guy, Javonte Williams, obviously ended up being a pretty damn good player that made it to the NFL. So that's a pretty neat story. Robert, you're pretty familiar, both of us are pretty familiar, with J.H.

Rose on the other side. We were talking about Clemson quite a bit earlier. Cornell Powell, somebody that played for that high school, and he mentioned all the success from about a decade or so ago. Andre Brown, who played for the Giants, went to that high school. A lot of talent that's come out of eastern North Carolina. Didn't you used to work on those radio broadcasts too?

Work is a loose term. I used to board up for those high school games, yeah. So later tonight, we'll have the game right here on WSJS Sports.

Seven o'clock should be a good one. The Triads, last shot, only shot at winning a state championship this year. At least they got some in the spring. It's second football season this year because of the pandemic, where Grimsley High took care of business and others took care of business too way back when.

But this season, it comes down to Dudley. You talk like a crazy person. You have sexually transmitted crazy mouth. You're on the drive with Josh Graham on WSJS Sports. This is why we tell you to consider your source.

Five things at five. We said there were reports that Dan Lanning, Georgia defensive coordinator, was going to be the head coach of the Oregon Ducks. According to two of the best reporters on the Oregon Beat right now, they're being told they have not made a hire and that those reports are untrue. We'll continue to follow that. If there's anything else to add, we will bring that to you. But right now, we chat with Darren Gant, who joins us, Hall of Fame voter for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Panthers.com, as the Panthers get set off to buy to face the Atlanta Falcons. I actually want to start on the Hall of Fame front, though, because it's always a fascinating process for me.

It's something that you know we have interest in. Last week, the 26 modern-day semifinalists, or I guess a couple weeks back, were revealed and we're going to get the final 15 next month. Then it's going to be the five inductees announced the weekend of the Super Bowl. Give me a sense for what the process looks like in between these announcements of 26 to 15 to 5, how it all works when you're trying to induct the Hall of Fame class. Well, I mean, in the past, the process was a little bit different. After COVID, they turned to our meeting, which is right before the Super Bowl. It was generally the Saturday before the Super Bowl. It became a virtual meeting a couple years ago, obviously, as you'd imagine. That's kind of the format for now. It'll still happen before the Super Bowl, but there is a reduction vote.

What's happening right now is you've got a lot of people doing a lot of research and pouring over a lot of documents and a lot of testimonials and a lot of stats as we try to. There are a couple guys who make this an interesting conversation right now. Steve Tasker, the old Bill's special teamer, is a semifinalist. He's a guy who's never really been in the room to get that discussion as part of the final 15. But I find him interesting. I think there's room in the hall for the best guy to ever do fill in the blank.

Really, whatever fill in the blank happens to be. I think he is a guy certainly that was among the greatest special teamers of all time. Now, where that becomes a problem is when you get into these conversations like at kicker. Morton Anderson goes into the Hall of Fame a couple years ago. I've got no problem with Morton Anderson because he's got the most of the things we count, which is points. But there's a problem coming because Adam Vinatieri is going to retire at some point.

He's going to be done and on that ballot at some point. He's just a better kicker. While Ray Guy goes in as the only punter, there are decent statistical arguments that there are punters better than Ray Guy.

It's a fascinating process as always, but there's a lot of tough decisions to be made coming up soon. There's a lot of receivers to sift through to see who's going to break through that logjam. When you look at all those first-year guys like Anquan, like Steve Smith, like Andre Johnson, etc., there's a lot of traffic there. Obviously, as we've talked about before, Sam Mills. Sam's going into his final year of eligibility as a modern candidate. If he doesn't get in this year, it's going to be on the seniors' committee to get him in.

So always a fascinating process with a lot of stuff. And realistically, of that list of 26 names they sent us, there's probably no fewer than 20 that I would look at and say, yeah, that guy deserves the Vietnam Hall of Fame. Darren Camp with us here on WSJS Sports. We talked about Steve Tasker being a city finalist, and that's a name that's been bandied about for a very long time, considering how good of a special teams player he was. When that time comes for Cam Newton, assuming something big doesn't happen between now and the end of his career, that the best has already happened for him, is he going to be viewed like a Steve Tasker type as somebody who was the best at a very specific thing, or is he going to be graded like other quarterbacks? I think Cam Newton, and you've heard me say this before, I think the man's a unicorn, and he is the greatest rushing quarterback we've ever seen play football.

And listen, Lamar Jackson's not finished, and if he continues to play like this for another 10 years, maybe we're having a different conversation. But Cam has done things no one else has done. And to me, that's kind of one of those big Brightline things, is if somebody's got 150 sacks, or if somebody's thrown XYZ, when you hit certain benchmarks, it's just, well, yeah, that is one.

I don't know how he will be received by others. I said, and I believed, and I maintain, prior to him coming back to Carolina, I said, if a man never throws no football, I think he's a Hall of Famer, simply because he's got more rushing touchdowns than any quarterback ever. He's got more games with a rushing touchdown.

And by a lot, by the way, you say more than anybody else. It is 30 more touchdowns than whoever is second. Right, and he's got more games with a rushing touchdown and a passing touchdown than anybody in the NFL. And he's way ahead of a guy named Steve Young, who's second on that list.

And certainly, I mean, Steve Young was a better passer. There's no debate about that. But Cam, I think, occupies a special place in the firmament of football. And so I think that, to me, is what the Hall of Fame should be about. It's the people who create the stories, the people who made the highlights, the people you want to see. I've always had some degree of problem when you start talking about coaches, although I do think there's a place for coaches in the Hall of Fame. But the contributor category gets a little sketchy to me. I mean, does every commissioner automatically get to be in the Hall of Fame?

I don't know. I was not a person who was firm in the belief that Paul Tagliabue should have gotten in. They created a method to get him in without the vote of the full committee that voted him down a couple of times. And now he's in and good. I'm sure there will be a time when Roger Goodell, they move heaven and earth to get Roger in, I'm sure.

But to me it's for the people you want to see. And I can't think of many players in the modern game that's more eye-opening, more you've got to see this than Cam Newton's been for the last decade. Darren Gant, you mentioned that it's down to 26 semifinalists.

Is there anybody that surprised you didn't even make it this far? I noticed, say, Tony Romo, for example, wasn't even listed as a semifinalist after being on the initial ballot. Tony Romo's not a Hall of Fame quarterback.

You don't actually believe that, do you? Well, I don't believe he is, but I do believe he's likable and has numbers that you can spin and that he played for that team, which is why I'm surprised he didn't get at least this far. Yeah, no, I think everybody understands. I mean, it's hard to get in the Hall of Fame.

It should be hard. I mean, that's what it's all about. And I think, you know, and again, I've gotten away. I'm not the baseball fan I used to be. I was the kid who got sporting news to read box scores. And I'm not that guy anymore. I have a hard time, and part of it's because of regional sports network issues, making it hard to see my team of preference, the Cincinnati Reds.

But, you know, I've stepped away from it. And when I see baseball Hall of Fame names, I'm like, really? That's a Hall of Famer? I mean, you know, and I know this is probably several years back, but when a name like Ted Simmons comes up, I'm like, Ted Simmons? I mean, he was good. Is he all-time great?

I don't know. I mean, I think Halls of Fame should be special. And, you know, for some of these guys, Tony Romo is good. I had people ask me locally, I mean, when you put together a list of, you know, 140 or 125, whatever it was, the prelim ballot, you know, and I had names like Musen Mohamed and like Jordan Gross. Jake DeLong was on that list. I mean, and it's like somebody said, are you going to vote for them as semifinalism? No.

No, I'm not. I mean, it's nothing against any of those guys. They had great careers, but I think it should be for the truly special people. I think Steve Smith, who is one of those truly special guys, I think Julius will be when the time comes. Obviously, based on, you know, how I feel about this, I think Sam Mills is, and we'll see if, you know, the group of 50 selectors agree with me. Darren Gant with us here from panthers.com. Let's get to the current team. Do we have to?

Yeah, exactly. All right. This is the last time I'm going to ask about Joe Brady's Panthers tenure.

We've been talking about it all week long. What do you believe to be the primary reason it didn't work? I just don't know. I don't know that it was necessarily a fit, and I don't know. I think it was a bold swing by Matt Rule who came in and wanted to add some passing game legitimacy to a staff he knew, wanted to find somebody with NFL passing game credentials, and certainly haven't worked for Sean Payton.

I mean, that's kind of the model everybody wants, right? I mean, and Joe had the resume, but Joe really wasn't put in a position to succeed for a lot of reasons, you know, which we've talked about. I mean, they hadn't found the quarterback of preference. They haven't, you know, funded the offensive line to a sufficient level to keep a quarterback safe. You know, and Christian McCaffrey's been hurt. So I do not believe this offense has been, you know, bad because of Joe Brady, but I don't think Joe Brady was enough to fix it.

And there were things, I mean, we'll see as time goes on. I don't know if Jeff Nixon's anything more than a placeholder before Matt goes looking for another guy to kind of modernize the passing game, but it's not going to matter if they don't invest in offensive linemen, and I believe they are going to. I believe that's going to be the case, but I just think at the end of the day, Joe just, I don't know, wasn't a fit.

I don't want to say he's too young. I don't want to say he's not capable because, listen, I've sat and talked ball with Joe Brady about conceptual stuff and the history of offense and that kind of stuff, and just listening to him talk, you know he understands this stuff. But I think, you know, having been through this process, I do also believe that when Joe gets his next job, and he will get another coordinator job probably sooner rather than later, Mann interviewed for a bunch of head coaching jobs not too long ago. I don't know that that's necessarily in the cards for him, but Joe's going to get a coordinator job, and I think he'll do well, and I think he'll do better this time. I think it's human nature that when you fail at something or when it doesn't go the way you want it to the first time through, you learn from that and you develop, and I believe that Joe is smart enough to take the lessons learned here in Charlotte and apply them to his next job. When he does get a coordinator job, do you think it's in the NFL or college? I think he's an NFL coach. I mean, I get the impression just from talking to him in the past, I mean, some of these guys, you've got to really want to recruit to get in college, and some of these guys who are operating at that really intellectual football level, they just want to do ball, and they just want to have football practice and draw X's and O's and stuff like that. And I think if you're not committed to that lifestyle and really want to recruit and those kind of things, college can wear a man out. I mean, that's tough business. And when you mix in Transfer Portal and all that kind of craziness, I mean, it's just hard, and I don't think a lot of coaches want to do that.

And I think Rule said that too. He considers himself an NFL coach, and that's the life he wants to live. He just wants to do the football. Apparently Jason Garrett is one of those coaches that want to do the college. He went to Princeton.

Steve Wiseman, Duke reporter, told me that he knows that Jason Garrett is interested in the job, and Suzy Kolber, who doesn't do a heck of a lot of college reporting, tweeted today that Jason Garrett is the frontrunner she's told at Duke, which tells me that Jason Garrett told her that that's something that he really wants, which is a fascinating deal to me. Yeah. I mean, I think, and again, I'm stepping out of my area of expertise, and I will never pretend to have information or knowledge that I do not possess.

I hate it when people do that. I don't know if Tony Elliott would be a great head coach. I mean, I think so.

I assume. He's been a great assistant at Clemson. But I love the idea that if you're a Duke, and if you're kind of a niche program, you're not an Alabama, you're not a Clemson, you're not Ohio State, if you're going to succeed at football, you've got to work the fringes of society. You've got to be willing to hire Steve Spurrier, who's doing something nobody else is doing, and air it out. And then you don't do that for a while, and then you go out and get the Manning Whisperer and David Cutcliffe, who I do not know Dave Cutcliffe, but everybody I know in the football business just has nothing but respect for the guy. He's the best.

Yeah, and he did a good job. So I think if you're a Duke, you've either got to find somebody who's not mainstream, and maybe Garrett is that guy, or maybe you go run single wing. I mean, maybe you go play like Army or stuff like that. I mean, I think you've got to do something outside the mainstream, because at Duke, you're never going to be able to recruit mainstream.

You're never going to be able to compete at that level. So you've got to do something different, and I think with his experience, I think Garrett would be interesting. I think it would be an intriguing hire. I don't know if it would be a good one or not, but I'd watch to see what Jason Garrett did at Duke.

Yeah, a lot of clapping. Last thing for you, Darren Gant with us here. I want to run something past you that Robert has been preparing us all for the last few weeks, and when I heard Cam Newton yesterday, it's something I really took seriously, where Cam is saying in more ways than one, this is a must-win game.

And quite frankly, just to be honest, I'm worried about myself having a job. Sam Darnold's the one that they're already committed to paying $18 million to next year, not Cam Newton. When Sam is ready to return, what happens?

I am not sure when that's going to be, is the honest answer. I mean, I don't know if Sam's going to get back on the field this year. I think, from my perspective, and this is not sources, this is kind of a chance for Cam Newton to see if Cam Newton can still be an NFL quarterback.

And I have said before, I thought the situation with him would be perfect if he needed to come in late for a team that was making a playoff push with a starter hurt or something like that. I don't know whether Cam Newton can be effective for 17 games at a time anymore. But let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, though. I don't know if he can be effective for seven games at a time, but we're going to find out over the next five weeks, and my impression is, and I'm kind of operating under the assumption that this deals Cam for the rest of the season. Okay, because what's interesting to me is, from the Panthers' end of it, like, obviously for Cam, that's something that would be great for him, but from the Panthers' standpoint, does it do them more good to figure out if Sam Darnold is an NFL quarterback than Cam Newton if the season is not going to be a playoff season? Yeah, I mean, I go back, one of my favorite Saturday Night Live skit was Jesse Jackson hosting back in the 80s, and he did a game show called The Question is Moot, and he'd ask, you know, what president's face is on the $100 bill, and somebody would ring in and he'd say, the question is moot.

Nobody saw a $100 bill during a Reagan administration. And that's kind of how I feel about this. I mean, until I see Sam with my own two guys out on a practice field or working to come back, I just don't know that he's getting back based on, you know, the timelines for that injury, and there were some numbers out there, but I'm kind of operating under the assumption that this is Cam for the next live. Darren, next time we chat, we'll talk music. Appreciate you spending the time with us, as always.

Yeah, man, anytime. We'll talk. We'll see y'all later. There you go. Darren Gant joining us from panthers.com. A lot of good stuff from him there. Robert, after hearing Darren on multiple subjects, Cam's Hall of Fame case, him talking about your theory, which I am intrigued by now, what do you think?

In terms of the theory, I think what he says makes the most sense, but I kind of thought this one way or the other. Sam and Cam cannot be on the same sideline. If Cam is the quarterback for the rest of the year, then Sam is not coming back. And their names rhyme and they're one syllable. That makes things difficult if you're a coach.

Yeah, that's always rough. You're worried about the syllables. But if Sam comes back, Cam cannot be there. There's no side gig for Cam, which hypothetically there could be, but I wonder if Cam's ego would get in the way, or maybe ego is the wrong word. Maybe pride wouldn't want him to be the backup red zone, one-yard-line QB sneak guy. But I also think if you bring Sam back, you wouldn't necessarily be able to evaluate his skills fully because of the patchwork offensive line, your star offensive player is out. Either that or you've seen all you need to see on Sam. But there's only one of those two guys that they're paying next year.

So how about Sam Darnold's healthy to return. I got a way you could figure it out. You put Sam and Cam in a room and you have them play a game of darts. And whoever wins that game of darts. With the lights off.

Whoever quarks out with less darts in them, that's who wins. I thought you were going to say put them in a room and wait nine months. I was like, I don't know if that's the best quarterback pairing to make a baby with.

Whoa! That'd be an interesting looking baby. Sam does have the biggest noggin. We talk so much about quarterback hand size, I would love to see his head size. Like cranium all the way around. What is his noggin's diameter? I wanted to ask you who would win a game of darts between Cam and Sam.

Oh, that's tough. It's short throws so Sam would be accurate. And they can't get picked off in darts.

I'll go Cam. I bet Cam's played more darts than Sam has. I think Sam Darnold wins that game of darts. Darts is also like a cerebral game too. People can go, it's kind of like a game of runs just like basketball is. Where it's like you can get a couple 20s, maybe you hit a triple 20 and you're out of it. But you still got to hit those three bulls-eyes at the end of the game.

You still have to clean the board. And if somebody gets stuck on one of those bulls-eyes, they might start seeing ghosts. Where Cam would have the opportunity to pull back. Maybe he hits a triple 17, he's walking down the board. Sam still needs to hit a bulls-eye and then Cam can walk out of it. What do we got in ticket to the house today?

We got moms who want to be their daughters. And that's what we got on Rhinestone Cowboy Friday next. Some good news to send you into the weekend with on this Rhinestone Cowboy Friday. I was in touch with Dick Vitale who this week was unable to call a game early in the week of Jimmy V Week because of his cancer treatment. But it's been announced by ESPN PR now. Dick's going to be on the call for number 6 Villanova at number 2 Baylor Sunday at 3 o'clock. I can't wait to hear Dick on the call that game college basketball is better when he's behind the microphone. Let's go into the weekend though.

Don't forget to subscribe to the pod however and wherever you're listening appreciate it. Let's take it to the house. I've always had a thing for older women, but I think this is a little ridiculous in context or maybe even out of context. It's ridiculous as a woman who is 48 lives and dates as her 22 year old daughter at college. So a 48 year old Missouri woman has pled guilty to living two years as her estranged daughter and embezzling more than $2,500,000.

Not great. So apparently she took out the loan in her daughter's name got a credit card got accepted into the what we know what was the university. Missouri gets accepted into Missouri under the pretense that she was this her daughter dates men at this college or I guess you could say young men and basically embezzles all of this money. And none of the dudes knew that she was really 48. They all believed her that she was 22. Yeah, I have to call boo on that. Yeah, I think I think the guys know I think they were just playing along. They're like, cool, whatever.

She works at the library. Good enough for me. Yeah, that's a pretty good analysis on your part. If you're in the game at the Smith Center tomorrow, stop by and say hello or else we'll just talk to you Monday.