Will the $2 Trillion Coronavirus Rescue Package Be a Cure or a Killer?

So will the $2 trillion coronavirus rescue package, will it be a cure or will it be a killer for our society?

Dan Celia joins us today right here on the Christian Real View Radio program where the mission is to sharpen the Biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ. As businesses and schools and other institutions have been forced to close, people are losing jobs or becoming unemployed. And fearing economic catastrophe, Congress crafted and President Trump signed this past week an over $2 trillion rescue package, they're calling it, that is intended to keep workers and companies from being bankrupted. Now this rescue package is the largest in history and after all that is said and done could add some say up to $6 trillion additional dollars to our current $23 trillion national debt. So where is all this money coming from and what will the ramifications of injecting this astronomical amount of money into the economy be?

Is it really necessary? Does our national debt actually matter that we just keep adding to it? And above all, will it be a cure or will it be a killer to our nation, even changing the balance of power in the world? So our guest this weekend on the Christian Real View is Dan Celia. He's an economist and president of Financial Issues Stewardship Ministries. He's going to answer some of these questions and more as he's been the first half of the program today focusing on the economics of this rescue package.

Let's get to the first segment with guest Dan Celia. Dan, we're really grateful to have you back on the program at this most unprecedented time, at least in our lifetimes, to talk about the coronavirus and the economic impact. I want to start out by reading a short paragraph from the Patriot Post publication where they say, Take no mistake, opening up the workplace to low-risk Americans will increase COVID-19 spread and deaths, but I believe, the writer says, at a cost far less severe than the prolonged and abject human misery that accompanies an economic collapse.

This is a price our society must be willing to bear in order to function and to be prepared to avoid this shutdown nightmare next time we face a pandemic threat. So, Dan, what do you see as the short-term and long-term economic impact caused by the almost shutdown of the American economy right now due to coronavirus? The short-term, David, is obviously some massive unemployment, but I do believe it's going to be kind of an upside-down V-type unemployment. It is going to be probably millions just in the next couple of weeks of first-time unemployment claims. That's going to have a real impact on sentiment, consumer sentiment and some business sentiment. I don't think it's going to develop into a long-term impact, but it is certainly going to be a real tough issue to get through.

Dan Celia is our guest today. He is the CEO and President of Financial Issues Stewardship Ministries. The Western Journal reported about this recent rescue package put forward by the U.S. Senate, saying the White House and Senate leaders of both major political parties announced an agreement early Wednesday on an unprecedented $2 trillion emergency bill to rush sweeping aid to businesses, workers and a health care system slammed by the coronavirus pandemic. The urgently needed pandemic response measure is the largest economic rescue measure in history and is intended as a weeks-long or months-long patch for an economy spiraling into recession and a nation facing a potentially ghastly toll.

Now, everything about this coronavirus, we seem like we're modifying it by saying unprecedented. Here we have an unprecedented rescue package of $2 trillion. Dan, where does the U.S. government get $2 trillion on top of the fact that our national debt is over $23 trillion right now?

They print it. I mean, you know, there's nowhere else to get it. We're not getting it from any kind of income stream. This is going to go into more unfunded liability for the U.S. government. It's going to be far bigger than $2 trillion. We also have to keep an eye on the fact the Federal Reserve is probably going to hit $4 trillion on top of their $4 trillion. That's not government.

But nonetheless, it is nothing more than a balance transfer of a balance sheet ledger entry. What the government puts out now has got to be at least $4 trillion when it's all said and done. It's not going to stop here at this $2 trillion bailout. Of course, this is unprecedented. We never thought, and it's not a bailout, it is an aid package.

You know, I'm as fiscally conservative as you get, and I've been a free market economist for well over 35 years. And look, we've never seen anything like this, hopefully and prayerfully. We will never see it again. This is something extremely dramatic, and we really don't know how to deal with it.

What we're learning, I think we're doing an excellent job, to be honest with you, being that it's not anything that we've ever seen before or could ever imagine. Why is it important, Dan, to do this rescue package, in other words, to shield individuals and businesses from financial loss? I know there's a lot of loss taking place, but isn't that sort of rewarding those who didn't have an emergency plan in place and encouraging the same kind of highly leveraged financial practices?

Isn't it interfering with, you just mentioned, kind of free market economics? Well, one of the questions I've been getting a lot over the last couple of weeks has been that whenever we look at something like this, David, we've got to look at options. Why are we doing it so we're all not standing in a soup line for the next three years?

I hate to sound that dramatic, but it's true. That's our alternative. Are we rewarding some for not being somewhat prepared?

I don't think anybody's going to prepare a lot better for having gone through this. They didn't do it in any other downturn where it was a legitimate downturn and legitimate bailouts. We've got to really consider our options, and we don't have any. This is not something that is optional.

I mean, I think it's disgraceful and shameful how they politicized the bill and they were looking at all kinds of special progressive things to put into it. We had no option. It doesn't matter what I or any other economist or fiscally conservative economists believe. It's really irrelevant because we had no choice. I'm the last person in the face of this earth that would want to see us adding $4 or $5 trillion to a national debt over this. I've put forth my ideas.

It was published in Town Hall on Friday, some things that we ought to be doing with this package. Of course, we did none of that and we're not going to. That would have helped soften the blow of the day. But this is a really critical situation. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it would not have just been those that feel that they are somewhat isolated from this, those that feel that they are protected from this. There isn't a segment other than the 2% of the country, the multi-billionaires, that would have been isolated from pain in this.

It would have looked very much like 1929 when it all began and standing in soup lines for five years for a 10-year long depression. That's where we were to beheaded. We still have so much to go through yet. India just put one-fifth of the world's population in lockdown.

Think about it. Their productivity that comes out of India is monumental. All of those things impact the global economy and impact the economy here in the U.S. Nobody has any business making kinds of predictions when there is no metrics to measure anything by.

We have never seen this in the history of the world. This is not an economic crisis. It is not a Wall Street crisis, a financial crisis. It is none of those things.

It is nothing that we have ever seen that is having a dramatic impact on our economy. They can make all the predictions, thoughts, and ideas. I certainly have mine, but it is based on nothing.

It is based on assumptions. There is so much more that is going to happen yet that we're really only seeing. We're not near a bottom. It could be, but we're not. It's not going to be a V-shaped recovery.

I said that a month ago. It is a U-shaped recovery. The question is, how long is the bottom of the U? That's something we don't know. I do not believe it's going to be an L-shaped recovery. I don't think it's going to drop like a rock and stay down there for an indefinite period of time. It is going to be a U-shaped recovery. I do believe that by the end of this year, we will have forgotten all this from an economic perspective.

Again, that's assuming that we start to see some contraction or some control over the next several weeks. How does it work, Dan, as you mentioned, this $2 to $6 trillion estimate that it will eventually cost? Aren't there just laws of economics for something like that if you print that much cash and inject it? Isn't there just inflationary consequences? Isn't there ripple effects that are going to take us who knows how long to ever, if ever, recover from? It's a wartime event. We did this during World War I and we did it in World War II. Now, the numbers weren't as big, but from a percentage standpoint, they were as big when we look at the economy compared to this.

It was very similar. But 2013 was my mathematical year where I said we can no longer grow our way out of this day. It's gotten a lot worse and the GDP growth has not gotten proportionately better. If they did not step in and do this, I go back to my soup line analogy. We would be done. We would be done.

If liquidity in the market dries up, it's all over and we will have to have a reset of the world's economy, which will take about 10 years of a deep, deep depression. Is this the answer? Of course not. Are we kicking a can down the road?

Yes, we are. Can we get out of it? Well, there's only one way that we can get out of it. Okay, he's going to tell you the one way we can get out of our huge national debt after this first break of the day on the Christian Real View.

We haven't been able to grow our way out of it. In other words, make the economy speed up and make more money and get more tax revenues and so forth, basically growing our way so the debt gets smaller. The problem is the continued growth of government. That is the problem.

You can never catch up once you're spending more than you're able to bring in even in a great growth economy. Dan Celia is our guest today on the Christian Real View. We're talking about the coronavirus rescue package that was just passed this week, $2 trillion. We've talked a lot about the disease itself. It's horrible for those that's afflicted. Other parts of the country aren't really feeling it that much, probably thinking, what's the big deal here? Well, there's also an economic side to this, which we're discussing in the first half of the program today.

Is it going to be a cure or is it going to be a killer to our economy? More coming up on the Christian Real View after this. I'm David Wheaton. It is a pain to know that there are people who do not know Jesus. It is a greater pain to know that oftentimes Jesus and Christianity is being distorted. Your destiny is calling out.

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Your email and mailing address will never be shared and you can unsubscribe at any time. Call 1-888-646-2233 or visit thechristianworldview.org. We are talking about the rescue $2 trillion aid package as a result that was passed this week for the coronavirus pandemic that's going on around the world.

That's what the U.S. government is going to be injecting into the economy to try to help workers and businesses who have been economically affected by this. Dan Celia is our guest, the president of financial issues stewardship ministries. Before we get back to the interview, just real quick, be sure to sign up for our free weekly email. You get the short takes when you do that for free. You can get resources and go to our website, to the store.

You can also support the ministry of the Christian World View, maybe become a monthly partner to help the mission of this ministry. Okay, Dan Celia was talking about the coronavirus package and how do we ever grow our way out of this huge national debt. Let's get back to that interview. Is this the answer? Of course not. Are we kicking a can down the road? Yes, we are. Can we get out of it? Well, there's only one way that we can get out of it. Unfortunately, we have an administration that has bought in to the notion that we can grow our way out of it. I've written letters and I've written several articles over the last three years that have all been published about this. We cannot grow our way out of it.

That stopped in 2013. The only way you could grow your way out of this kind of national debt is to have a, I'm guessing it's around eight to nine percent GDP growth for the next 10 years, eight years. That's not going to happen because that's an impossibility. The only way we can do it is have very, very good GDP growth, a growing economy for an extended period of time, along with some very needed and reasonable cuts to government spending.

It's got to happen. Right now, I still don't see any will in Washington to do the cutting side. If we have a ruination of all of this and the ruination of our free market economy, that's going to be why. You mentioned that to us last time you were on the program, last August of 2019, about the entitlement programs, the amount of spending going on with Social Security, Medicare and a couple other ones. I can't remember which ones they were saying how, just how crushing that is on our economy and our economic future. Not to mention that we've added so much to just normal governmental spending by increasing the size of departments, all the departments of the government that are new that Obamacare created. We're supporting that.

We're growing those. Those budgets grow every year as well. Donald Reagan cut everybody's budget.

He had a mandate. We're cutting every government budget 4%. We ended up, on average, cutting it about 6.5%, 7%.

I don't remember the exact number because once we started cutting, it became pretty easy. We've got to get rid of all the duplicity, all the fat. I believe it's easy to do. I think it's easy to fix Social Security. I think we can do it.

I could do it in 20 minutes if they had a will to do it. Dan Celia with us today on The Christian Real View. He is the president and CEO of Financial Issues Stewardship Ministries, FinancialIssues.org. You really need to listen to his daily radio and television program and get connected with his organization.

Just a couple more questions for you, Dan. Is China, the economy of China and China as a nation, as a communist evil regime, are they benefiting from this virus? In other words, are they shorting our stock market?

Are they buying low and going to be selling high? Are they increasing their debt hold on our country? Are they on pace to overtake America as the largest world economy and become the reserve currency in the world? Several questions there. Let's have your thoughts on China and the situation.

They're very single-minded in their goals. That's to have world dominance, both militarily and economically. China is never going to overtake us economically. We talk about China and we always use the world reserve currency. China purchases 3% of what they need in life with their own currency.

Everything else they purchase, they purchase with US dollars. Why? Because nobody wants their currency. It's not worth anything. They can't buy anything with it. The notion that they could be the world reserve currency is really not a realistic thing that we should even be thinking about or talking about or worried about. It's not going to happen.

It can't happen. They have no value to their currency. This is devastating to the China economy. Remember, this is coming off of a trade issue that was devastating to their economy and a trade issue that is going to have long-term impact on their economy because the supply chains that they've lost aren't coming back very easily. It woke up America to say things like, why in the world is China producing 80% of our drugs?

Why? It's going to stop. It woke up companies like Apple and Nike to say, we need to get all of our eggs out of this communist regime's basket and are now moving to other areas of the world and America. It woke up all corporations that deal with China in that regard.

This has permanently hurt them. They have not been buyers of our debt. They have to continue to buy some because again, they need US dollars as part of their reserves, but they don't have the money to buy it.

They're not buying as much as they used to at one point in time. They're in a very difficult situation, but they are still going to work towards world dominance. Remember, they have a distinct advantage over most economies. They don't care a lick about their people. Their people are irrelevant to them.

The human atrocities on the human rights violations are beyond description. That's not going to change. This pandemic is not an issue. We don't know how many people die, but I can assure you it's a lot more than what they would put out. Dan Celia again with us as our guest today on The Christian Rule of You talking about this huge rescue package, $2 trillion, which will end up being more in the end, that was recently released this week to try to stop the freefall of the American economy. The final question for you, Dan, let's go from these huge macroeconomic trends and what's going on to the person listening today.

What should the listener who is hearing The Christian Rule of You today be doing financially right now? And what should they do going forward, Lord willing, when things return to more of a normalcy in this country? Well, the first thing they have to do is remember, this is a global but certainly an American health crisis. This is not a bad economy. They can thank God that we had the economy we had before this happened, or we'd be in big trouble. We came at this at a very strong place in our economy.

That has helped us a lot. Understand that the suffering that they're going to go through, as all of us will, is going to be temporary. It is not going to be long lasting.

There is going to be recovery. Please don't get overly enthusiastic about their 401k because we've had a few days of upticks. Don't do that. That's a mistake. There's still lots more room on the downside to go yet.

Be patient and be calm. If you contribute to a 401k or an IRA, the biggest mistake you could make is to stop those contributions. If you've got 10 years or more before you retire, you need to continue those contributions. You need to celebrate that you can buy into those things that you're contributing to at a cheaper price because you're getting more shares, and the accumulation of the shares is what's going to be a huge benefit to you someday.

The downside is you could lose some hours, you could lose some jobs, and that is very unfortunate. The upside to it, I hope, will be that there will be lessons learned. I am doubtful of that because there weren't any lessons learned in 2008. But for the average Joe, to understand how important savings is, you know today now, you understand it. But to maintain that understanding for the years to come, whether you have a lot or a little, you need to save and don't be discouraged because you can only save a little. You understand today, if you didn't before, how important it is to be out of debt.

You understood that in 2008 as well. But you understand that, again, we need corporate America to understand it, and we need the average hourly wage earner to understand that. We've got to fight and work. As long as you are earning money, it's a constant battle to stay out of debt.

We've got to focus again on what we need, not what we want, and be patient through all of this. And I pray that you will learn lessons and change the way you do things, little changes for the better, staying out of debt, starting to save. And I want to stress that savings is not investing. Savings is in a bank earning no interest, but you can get to it anytime you want it. That's savings. Investing is not that, because when you need to fix the transmission on your car, you're going to have to sell something at a loss, maybe, to get the money. That's not savings. It's investing. It's a long term. So we've got to have savings because without savings, we can't stay out of debt.

Without savings, we can't get through these storms like we're about to have, maybe with a lot of people's jobs. Very good advice, Dan. Thank you for that. And thank you for taking the time.

I know it's been an incredibly busy time for you in the midst of this health crisis turned economic downturn. So we appreciate your taking the time to come on the Christian Real View. We wish all of God's best and grace and health to you and your family. Same to you, David, and your family. Thank you.

It's been a joy to be on with you anytime. That was Dan Celia, everyone. The website for his ministry is financialissues.org.

You can find out about his radio program, television program, all of there at his website. Coming back, we have much more discussed today on the Christian Real View. I'm David Wheat. The critical race theory and intersectionality are simply analytical tools that are meant to be used as tools, not as a world view, not a transcended world view above the authority of scripture. And we stand by the strength of this resolution. Is the Southern Baptist Convention diverging from biblical orthodoxy over issues of women teaching men, homosexuality and critical race theory?

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That's 1-888-646-2233 or myboyben.com. Think biblically and live accordingly. That is what we try to do every week here on the Christian Worldview radio program with whatever topic we're covering has been the coronavirus. This is the third weekend in a row we've covered this topic that is dominating people's thoughts, the news coverage, their lives. Not only in America, but all over the globe. As you look at a map of the world, you can see where they've had most cases and deaths and so forth. It doesn't cover everywhere in the world, interestingly enough, but many of the first world countries, surprisingly enough, are being the ones that are being most afflicted.

That's probably because of urbanization, high levels of population in Europe and Asia and America and so forth. But if you're like me, you've probably been thinking, trying to figure this whole thing out. Where did this virus come from?

Was it created in some lab over in China or is it truly just a person eating an animal in a wet market in China and just expanded from there? Hard to get to the answers to those questions. How about the response to this? Has it been an overreaction or is it warranted or is there some sort of nefarious transition in our country, in the world, taking place right now? Leading toward this, what it talks about in Revelation as being the end time scenario where there's a global world leader and someone who has to come in to solve the world's problems and turns into the Antichrist and the false prophet. I mean, it's certainly a possibility.

And so if you're like me, I've been thinking about these things and trying to try to understand you. We're living in this moment. None of us knows the future. Dan talked about some things there in his last answer about what he thinks are going to take place. And I respect him a lot from an economic standpoint, but we just don't know really, actually. We don't know what's going to happen in eight or nine months from now.

No one saw this coming. Did you think in March of 2020 that you'd be sitting home like we are in Minnesota? Last night, there was a shelter in place order put on our entire state. For the next two weeks, we cannot leave our home except for essential travel. Almost everything except essential businesses like medical clinics and so forth have been closed down. Kids are out of school. Likely, kids are not going to be going back to school, at least in Minnesota, where I am, for probably the rest of the school year. Business is shut down.

Things that we work in in business, spigots have been turned off. No one saw this coming when we heard about this coronavirus over in China and what was going on a couple of months ago. Well, now it's hit here. And so we're all trying to figure out where this is going.

I think it's helpful. I mean, I think part of the difficulty of it is that you look at some of the statistics regarding the coronavirus, COVID-19, versus, let's say, just the regular flu or other types of things that happen to our country every year, traffic deaths or alcohol-related deaths. And you look at the disparity that there's much fewer deaths and cases to COVID-19 than some of these other things.

I'll read them in a second. And you begin to think, well, why is there such a huge reaction to this? Why are they shutting down society over this? Is the threat really that great that it warrants a complete, not complete, but nearly total shutdown of the American economy? Well, just consider this. And by the way, as I read the statistics about deaths from COVID-19 or anything else, every death is a tragedy for that person and that person's family. So I don't just read these statistics to say, well, you know, it's just a matter of economics versus deaths and the economy's warm. No, I do understand that for someone who's been afflicted by coronavirus maybe during this time right now or has lost a loved one or is in the hospital on a ventilator, it's a horrible situation. Horrible.

It's a terrible trial. At the same rate, there are, you know, a majority of the country, a vast majority of the country is probably trying to figure out, well, this is being overblown. Look at the low statistics. And some of those statistics are that there have been 80. This is as of yesterday. These numbers change every day.

So pardon if they're off a little bit. But there's been a total of about eighty five thousand Corona 19 or coronavirus cases in America so far. Eighty five thousand. And there's been about I think there's been about fourteen or fifteen hundred deaths. Fifteen hundred people have died from the coronavirus.

So let's keep those two numbers in mind. But eighty five thousand cases total and about fourteen or fifteen hundred deaths from COVID-19. Now, just compare that to one that gets common compared to the flu. There's two strains of the flu. But according to the CDC, 34 million people have there been that that many cases of the flu this year, just this season, just this flu season.

I think it starts in September, October. And there have been about twenty thousand people who have died from the flu. So fourteen or fifteen hundred from COVID-19, but twenty thousand who have died from the flu. I mentioned vehicle deaths and alcohol related deaths annually. There are over thirty seven thousand motor vehicle deaths per year in America. And there are over eighty eight thousand alcohol related deaths in America, according to the National Institute of Alcohol. So in proportion there would seem why why are we shutting down the entire economy due to COVID-19 when I mean, I don't even know how many more times that is.

What is it? Fifteen times more people have died of the flu this year. Thirty seven thousand have died of motor vehicle deaths.

Eighty eight thousand have died from alcohol. We're not banning travel on the roads. We're not banning alcohol.

I mean, those would be really difficult. Banning cars would would hurt our economy as well. So why are we shutting things down for for COVID-19? And as I mentioned this, you know, probably in your state as well, because it's happening almost everywhere. We have a a state of shelter in place order dictate from government. This is not optional.

The mayor of Minneapolis said we expect one hundred percent compliance. If you've never understood the power of government, you should be understanding it now, because we can't go out of our homes for unnecessary travel for the next two weeks. We don't have freedom of movement.

This is this is unprecedented, at least in my lifetime. Businesses, schools, almost everything is shut down. Government has the ultimate power of people in different times are so willing to let government take care of things and are so trusting of government. Just remember, at the end of the line with government is a gun to your head.

I use the example frequently that if you don't pay your taxes, it's not optional. They'll write you kind of a letter at first and the second letter will get a little sterner. And then the third letter, they'll they'll threaten legal action and they'll bring on fines and so forth. And they'll start taking money out of your wages at work and so forth. And eventually, if you just keep refusing, well, police officers will arrive at your door and haul you off to jail.

So government ultimately has their power because they have the they have the power of force in the end. Now, right here in Minnesota, during this state of emergency, it's not a state of emergency shelter in place edict, we've had just under about 400 total cases in Minnesota with four deaths from the coronavirus. And yet the whole state is being sheltered in place. We have only 34 people in the hospital as of yesterday in Minnesota that have the coronavirus. And yet during the flu season, we've had 4000 hospital hospitalizations compared to 400 for coronavirus. We've had 73 deaths instead of four for coronavirus.

Now, I do understand the situation in New York is far worse. They have the most cases in the country, 45000. They've had over 500 deaths. I'm not sure what their flu statistics are, but I'm sure it's probably higher. But they're having a terrible, terrible time in an urban area where people have been or live in close proximity to each other.

And certainly the situation there is dire. And they're predicting that for other cities like Miami and New Orleans and San Francisco, other Los Angeles, possibly some of the big cities, Chicago, are predicting much more ramp up of the human toll from this virus. So why so much emphasis on the coronavirus?

Why the unprecedented government reaction to it? Well, I think the first answer to that is there's no doubt there would be a lot more cases and a lot more deaths worldwide and in America by coronavirus this year, maybe even then the flu, because it's a new virus. It's something that a treatment isn't readily available for right now.

And if we had too many cases in too short of a time, it would overwhelm hospitals and health care systems. So I do understand that. And I think that some of the measures they've taken, I think are really needed. I mean, keeping people apart has got to help because it's transmitted person to person and keep people apart.

It's got to help. So I agree with that. But then the thing I'm thinking about in my mind is the extent of the reaction everywhere in America, even in places like, let's say here in Minnesota, where there have been, relatively speaking, very few cases and four deaths. Again, every death is a tragedy for that person.

I understand that. But to shut down the entire state of business for two weeks and maybe longer, you just wonder how that can be justified based on the relatively lower fatality rate with coronavirus than other things like the flu. And like I mentioned, alcohol deaths and vehicle deaths and so forth. And I think that what this comes down to is you have to realize who stands to gain, I guess you could say, by these kinds of strict controls on society. And I think you have to start with political power that no one in political leadership or political power wants to be the person who is perceived to not done enough, because that gets you voted out of office. If you're President Trump or some other political leader, the governor of Minnesota, elsewhere, if all of a sudden things get out of control in your state or out of control in the nation, you've just lost your next election.

You voted yourself basically out of power. So there's that motivating force. So there's a tendency to want to do more rather than less. The media also has a vested interest in this, you know, with nonstop wall to wall news coverage every single day. This is incredible for their ratings and higher ratings.

More people watching allows them to charge more for advertisers to advertise on their network. So there is that element to it that I think cannot be denied. And I think once we get past this, Lord willing, if we do someday, we're going to look at the moderate numbers of deaths, relatively speaking, compared to other things. And we're going to say, well, that was because we took these measures and we don't know how many would have died if we hadn't taken these measures.

But the question I want to discuss in the last segment is what kind of damage to the nation and economy and people's financial lives did this cost? Is there something beyond this, something if we learned that perhaps it would all be worth it? We'll discuss that next in the final segment of the day here on the Christian worldview.

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Regular retail is seventeen ninety nine each to order. Go to the Christian worldview dot org or call one triple eight six four six twenty two thirty three or write to Box four zero one Excelsior, Minnesota. Five five three three one. All right. Final segment of the day here on the Christian worldview radio program, I'm David Wheaton. Just a reminder before we get to our back to our topic today, talking about this coronavirus rescue package, the financial ramifications of we did an interview with Dan Sealy. If you missed that, just go to our Web site, the Christian worldview dot org.

We'll have that up. Usually the program airs live Saturday mornings. We usually have the podcast up on our Web site by Saturday evening. Of course, you can subscribe to the positive podcast through iTunes or Google Play and so forth. And I forgot to mention earlier that if you missed the interview with Dan back last year, I think it was in August. You just go to our Web site and go to past programs.

We have all the audio of all the past programs. That was one of the most listened to programs of the recent, let's say, last six months to a year with Dan talking about some of these things, not about coronavirus. Of course, it wasn't around at that point, but economic financial situations in the debt and that kind of thing.

So that was a very helpful interview. He talked about a few of these things today in the program, one being notable thing that we can't grow our way out of this debt anymore. Now that we've up to twenty three trillion, now we're going to be over that twenty five, twenty six trillion with this aid package.

You're not going to grow out of it. You just can't generate enough GDP to offset all the government spending we're doing. And he had mentioned that could solve it in 20 minutes. Well, the way he would solve it, just to sort of give you the answer to that was by extending the age to the point when people can start getting Social Security.

In other words, make people work a little longer with longer lifespans and so forth. That would have a huge impact downstream for that. But I won't get into that whole thing.

You can go back and hear the interview with Dan Celia from I think was August twenty nineteen. But just in our remaining moments today, we wanted to talk about what we can learn from this situation. You know, we know there's a huge damage going to be taken to our economy through this through this rescue package. The fact that business isn't taking place right here.

We have no idea what this is going to cost us or do to us going forward. People make assumptions and predictions and we just don't know. And I do think I read all those statistics earlier today comparing coronavirus to the flu and traffic deaths and alcohol deaths. And all that being said, even though the coronavirus is much less, I really do want to be clear that I do think the separation measures, many of them that are really called for at least in certain select places.

And they're going to help keeping people apart. So hospitals aren't overwhelmed like this sounds like they're going to be in like New York. But the extent of what is taking place right now, and I mean the extent of not just the coronavirus, but the government shutdown of everything, this is truly unprecedented. I mean, whether or not you think this is a big deal or not, it is a big deal because politicians and the media and doctors are treating it as a big deal. So when that happens, when it's kind of imposed on us as a big deal, it's a big deal, whether we whether we think it's a big deal or not, whether you get sick or not. Now, if you have a family member who's gotten sick, you know, it's a big deal. But the shutting down of first world nations that drive the world's economies for an extended period of time, it looks like it could be this way.

This is this. I can't imagine that this wouldn't have a reordering impact on the world's economy. I mean, who knows where we're going to end up after this whole thing. And I really believe from a spiritual standpoint that God is going to be using this.

Of course he is. He uses everything to drive the world according to his plan. I've heard people who are professing Christians say, well, they don't think this is from God. God would never do something like this to people. Well, you're not reading the Bible. You don't see all the pestilences and the famines and all the things that God directly caused in scripture over the historic record of the Bible. It's as if, well, God didn't cause this. He couldn't have caused this. In other words, he's powerless and now he's got to step in to save us.

No. The sovereignty of God means that God causes or allows everything that happens to happen for purposes that we just can't maybe understand or see right now. But there are good purposes. There are God-ordained purposes for this.

And I won't even pretend to you that I know what they are. I don't. But I do know that God is sovereign. He either causes or allows everything. It's all throughout scripture. Look at Job. I mean, that's one of the most perfect examples of a direct affliction of Job and his family and his health and his livelihood and everything else directly allowed by God at the behest of Satan himself. A truly remarkable scene in the first couple of chapters of Job. So that all being said, if these things result, the following things result from this shutdown of the economy, from this turn down of, you know, the power structure in the world, from the suffering that people are going to go through.

One of the things I just jotted down that I think if resulted from this, that it may have been like God causes all things to work together for good in people's lives, that they're good things can come out of trials. Well, number one, if this causes the U.S. to be disentangled from China and we can start manufacturing here again in the United States, that would be a good thing. Number two, if we as Americans realize that we can't just grow our way out of it, no matter how high the stock market gets, we're still going to have to make cuts.

We can't live in this entitlement economy because we can't afford it. That would be a good result of this. If this leads to people becoming more sober minded, serious about life and their finances, like it says in Ecclesiastes chapter 12, the conclusion when all has been heard is fear God and keep his commandments because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil. If people started to have that mindset, that that's the point of life, to fear God and keep his commandments, if there is a sober mindedness, that will be a big win for our society. And finally, the fourth thing is if this leads to people coming to saving faith in Jesus Christ from putting their faith in nothing or their own good works, to putting their faith in Christ alone, then it will be really worth it. It may even be a time of revival for a portion of our society. I'm going to play a commercial that's been airing on Fox News recently by Franklin Graham. And look what he is saying about this time with this trial in our country. Hello, I'm Franklin Graham.

Maybe your heart has been gripped by fear, as millions of others have, because of this coronavirus pandemic. But I want you to know that God loves you. He made you. He created you.

He knows everything about your life. You don't need to be afraid. Jesus said, I'll never leave you nor forsake you. If you've never invited Jesus Christ into your heart, if you've never trusted him as your savior, you can pray right now to do that. Just simply pray this prayer. God, I'm a sinner.

I'm sorry for my sins. I believe Jesus Christ is your son. And I want to invite him to come into my heart, into my life.

I'm willing to trust him as my savior and follow him as my Lord. And I pray this in Jesus' name. If you pray that prayer, call this number that's on the screen.

Do it right now. We've got someone who will pray with you, talk with you, encourage you. God bless. ...out that particular gospel message. You watch Fox News and the back and forth and people are arguing, debating and politics and media and everything else going on. All of a sudden this ad comes on for 60 seconds where he's giving the gospel, how people can be right with God. If that's a result of this, that people become saved, that will be a great thing as well.

Because we do live in a changing and challenging world, never more true than it is right now. But the good news is Jesus Christ. He is the good news because he and his word are the same yesterday, today and forever. We can trust God throughout this.

He's got perfectly in control and command. We may not be able to see it now, but that's what we're called to trust. So until next weekend, everyone, think biblically and live accordingly.

We'll talk to you next time. We hope today's broadcast turned your heart toward God, his word and his son. To order a CD copy of today's program or sign up for our free weekly email or to find out how you can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, go to our website, thechristianworldview.org or call us toll free at 1-888-646-2233. The Christian World View is a weekly one hour radio program that is furnished by the Overcomer Foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors. Request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount. Go to thechristianworldview.org or call us toll free at 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian World View. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly.