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You need Indeed. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to Into the Winklerverse. I don't like saying it that way. Welcome into the Winklerverse.
I am Bart Winkler, Grant Bills alongside, and Paul Imig. It's our weekly rendition of Mm-hmm Mm-hmm with a Packers postgame twist. Packers lose to the Lions 34 to 31.
Paul, I don't know what you have planned in terms of questions. All Brewers. I'm going to try to quickly as quickly and succinctly as I can spit out my main takes on the Packers Lions game last night.
And here we go. Dan Campbell is a menace. He isn't about the analytics. He's addicted addiction to going for it on fourth down. He doesn't understand how he can't do it.
And like all addicts, I should know your voice will eventually come back to bite you. That fourth down that he went for to end the game only makes sense if he thinks Jordan Love is Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, where you can operate with no timeouts from your own 30 yard line. Truly an unhinged decision. The fourth down before the half was a direct PTSD from the NFC Championship game where they went for a field goal before the half and then eventually lost. By the way, that game the same score as the game last night. But the Packers would have had more time on the clock if Matt LaFleur didn't call that stupid challenge. They would have had another timeout.
They would have had a full minute remaining. So Grant's already shaking his head. I don't like that. The Lions are a fan base that we have wanted to cheer on their, you know, glow up here. But now they're starting to be a little cocky about it.
I don't want to become the Bears to their Packers. I don't like this whole cheese grating thing. I already was mad at that one fan. There was an actual cheese grater that was brought in the game. How did that get through the metal detector?
And I do not feel safe going to Ford Field anymore if there are going to be weapons just flat out allowed into the facility. Also, I think that might be it. I think those might be the main takeaways.
I don't think Dan Campbell, I think he's getting rewarded for bad behavior today. I think that's mainly it. Oh, I don't like to be blamed the ref guys.
I always say you have to be better than the elements, the rest being one of those elements. And I do think that the NFL sets up their reps in a way to fail. Like, oh, they didn't call holding. Oh, they didn't call this.
That's because there's so many different arbitrary rules. Like you can review block charge. Oh, the guy's feet weren't set.
Oh, he was moving. You can review, someday there will be Paul, the automated strike zone. And there'll be a defined space. What's a ball and a strike? But you can't like, you can review offsides. You can see the body part in soccer. But holding and pass interference is always going to be a judgment call. And so these guys are always allowed to dry and you can't review that and even then. So basically I say not to complain about the refs. I'm complaining about the refs.
I think that Dan Campbell going for it on his own 30 was even dumber. I think this guy has a problem and needs help. I think last night was a cry for help. The same way that I've got vodka in this Mountain Dew right now. I'm just kidding. Anyway, I think that that is all the spit I need to throw on the floor. So I've knocked over the shelf.
And then if you guys could help me rearrange that into a worthy 45 to 55 minutes of content. Paul? Well Grant, I'm just going to say that our texts this morning contradict your thoughts. Your thoughts contradict the referee portion of what Mr. Winkler just shared. You were like, this is not the refs.
Right? Well, yeah, I think the OPI, offensive pass interference, I think it was a bad call. All smart football people on TV and in the media are breaking it down as a bad call. Did you see the Bukowski tweet? He said that the Lions have four fourth down touchdowns and they're all against the Packers this year. Oh my gosh, I did not see that.
Interesting. So then like, yay, we stopped them and yay, but I mean that one to Gibbs, it was like, I mean, God, they could have, they could have ran that play a hundred times before we stopped it. Good angle route. Ben Johnson's good.
I don't think the refs, the defense is going to have to get a stop anyways. Is Ben Johnson that great? That's the same call I call on fourth down on Madden.
But the, doesn't that just reinforce your point that you just got to like have a guy who can just do the things that a normal person would do. And you could be a sufficient coach in the NFL. Oh, and Matt Lafleur arguing with this fan before the game, he should have punched him in the face. That was actually a pretty great, like, I'm like, I don't know. I'm not, I was behind on the game, so I've not caught up to social media.
That's a great Lafleur moment. Oh yeah. Cause what gives, this is the thing with the lions, the lions fans are like, they are like, and this is the analogy I used. They are like, you know, before Steve Rogers becomes captain America. They're a scrawny little five foot six kid that gets his ass kicked throughout Brooklyn. Now they're captain America, super serum.
Okay. They can kick anybody's ass, but where captain America was the right person to be captain America was because, and why he's worthy of Thor's hammer. I should say it's because he doesn't then become the guy who can then retaliate.
He doesn't, he only, he only fights for good. The lions are basically the bully that got, you know, strong over the summer and now they're kicking everybody's ass. It's like, you haven't been that good for that long. Your fans don't earn the right to get a pregame pass and start drawing with an NFL head coach on the field. That has nothing to do with, there is no fan base with any level of success that earns the right to do that. And Paul, you asked like that, if that's a good LaFleur moment. When he says like, well, normally I'd like security or the police to step up. Like you, you could construe that as a little whiny and complainy, but make no mistake.
I'm saying you could, but make no mistake. Like that fan made a fool of himself and that's a horrible look. If you are yelling with fans in the stands is one thing. Cause that's where fans are supposed to be. Yeah. With this happening on the field, it's like the goal of that guy.
It's unbelievable. You are selected as a volunteer to be on the field. Like be a fucking adult.
Like that's, I feel like that's half of my talking points on the radio these days. Just like I just be an adult players, fans, coaches. You're one of those guys that gets to do the flag before the Brewers game. And then on your way off the field, you start like yelling at counsel. Although I might do that. You bitch punk. Why'd you leave? Why didn't you leave sooner?
I should say. I just liked that Le Fleur had that in him, right? To be like, no, fuck you. I liked that he didn't, yeah.
Though, yes, the fans should never have had the opportunity to do that. And I think your analogy is a good one, Bart. I like the Captain America analogy.
You got too big, too fast. I brought that up on the show and we ended up getting as many people calling that wanted to talk about Marvel as they did the Packers-Lions game. Oh yeah, nice. Rick and Toronto got upset because Carlos said Sam Wilson should not be Captain America. It should be Bucky Barnes. And I told him Bucky didn't want the shield. I think it should only be Steve Rogers.
Well, he's old now. But I mean, then you should just be the Falcon who carries the shield. You aren't Captain America. But you could argue that the world needs a Captain America. At least Earth 616.
Earth 616. The Captain America movie comes out, is it in February or March, Bart? Yeah, and I heard it's gone through like a million reshoots and don't think it's going to be good. Why are they reshooting?
It's all green screens. Well, there was a whole plot with Seth Rollins as a part of the Serpent Society that they completely cut. Is Red Hulk the baddie? Is that Harrison Ford? Who's Harrison Ford? He's taking over for the guy who used to play Thunderbolt Ross. OK. Yeah, I just like when a Captain America movie comes out as it's going to and like Steve Rogers isn't in it, I just don't think that's. That's odd. It's got to just call it.
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You need Indeed. On the on the idea that Lions fans have gotten a little big for their britches. It's annoying, but we lost like we got to just suck that up. You know what I mean? I know what you mean. I text Horvat last night or he text me.
And I don't think I'm speaking out of school here. Does he want Rogers back? No, he said I have a very strong take. Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson leaves and it was Campbell in the Applebee's commercial. I really do think I really like Dan Campbell. He says he's going to do that shit against Green Bay in the playoffs or Philly and he's going to lose.
Vic Fangio will be waiting. I said, I'm really pissed about this game. It was fucking bullshit.
And Horvat said, Me too. Made me feel alive again. I was thinking about I was happy placed up before bed for about an hour because you can't just you can't go from watching your team on Thursday Night Football in that game to immediately laying down to sleep like there was a period. Plus, I was doing Bill's show today, so I was typing some things out and I just I was pondering. I'm like, I think Dan Campbell's great, but what is it going to look like without Ben Johnson?
Yeah, it's not it's not alive. It's not going to be nearly as good. Well, and maybe they'll still maybe they'll still be really great. But God damn, there were a couple moments last night where I'm like, yeah, he just called that. And he just like it was just he's just got so many calls and they're all timed perfectly. Like, yeah, I mean, I think he I think Dan Campbell can get away with his fourth quarter or his fourth down strategy because of who he has calling his offensive plays on those fourth down attempts. Absolutely. Yeah, you can't be Mr. Fourth down if Nathaniel Hackett's your OC or Luke get see.
No, no. And I think Ben Johnson staying. With the Lions.
Is a. I mean, if you tell me who's who's going to win the Super Bowl right now, I know I've heard some of your discourse at a national level with the Chiefs and I'm with you on a lot of it. The Lions are the best team in the NFL, and I'm not even sure it's that close. Like that doesn't mean the best team is going to win the Super Bowl.
But I think Ben Johnson, this 36 year old guy. Staying with the Lions as an offensive coordinator when he could have been a head coach is a Super Bowl changing moment in the NFL history. Like he the Lions with him and without him. So like this is the kind of game I like to play because I really value coaching in certain aspects when there's elite coaching. I think coaching can be.
But but Grant's eyes just rolled over to my camera. But if you were the if you were if you were the Lions and you could protect five members of your general thing. Would Ben Johnson be among them?
I love this exercise. Unbelievably unequivocally. Ben Johnson is one of the five most valuable Lions, undoubtedly. So who's more valuable than him?
No one. I don't know. Because I would say, is he more valuable than Jared Goff? I would say yes.
No, I'm sorry. Yes, he is more valuable. He's more valuable than Jared Goff. Is he more valuable than David Montgomery?
Obviously. I think Montgomery is like a top five back, though. I think he's fucking awesome. I think Jameer Gibbs is.
I can't believe he's real watching him sometimes. If the NFL said to the Lions, it's been decreed, you must either release Ben Johnson or Aidan Hutchinson. Who are they cutting? Well, they've got a patchwork defense right now that we couldn't beat. Yeah, I think I think what if they said you have to get rid of Ben Johnson or Dan Campbell? I think I think Dan Campbell, because of his because of what he is and what he brings, he is the culture. Right.
And Ben Johnson. I mean, I'm not sure. I don't know, though. I think with Dan Campbell, here's I think they are two of the five.
I would say two of the three most important Lions. Here's where I think I would love to hear the national discourse on. I think people say that's crazy, but I don't think it is. I think it's absolutely correct. Well, I could talk about that tonight.
I got no lead. We did this. We did this with the Brewers a couple of years ago. Remember, Brett, Bart, Bart, Bart. I'll never forget you remember this a couple of years ago. I asked you if there was an expansion draft and you had to protect Brewers players, but council was included.
Like how many? I don't even remember what we settled on, but I love this exercise, Paul. So what's your answer, Grant, with the Lions?
The Campbell's on the board to Campbell's on the board to. See, I think you need to pick three lions, you can protect coaches included, and everyone else is available for an expansion draft in a school. I mean, maybe St. Brown. See, the thing is, like St. Brown, I brought this up earlier today on the radio, like St. Brown is not Justin Jefferson or AJ Brown or Tyree kill at their peak. He's very good, but he's not like otherworldly. What are we going to do with this guy? How could I possibly defend him?
I would say Penay Sewell. You know, I've had Tim Patrick in a fantasy league for seven years, and I R him every year on the Broncos, and I finally got rid of him this year, and now he's doing something. He's like 30. Did you mention this on your national on the national show? Like what a bitch move from Jerry Judy to be like, hey, Broncos, I know I sucked for you for three straight years, but now I'm going to come back and have the first good game of my career and act like you did me wrong by shipping me off.
Did you see the stat that Judy in that game had more receiving yards than any game of passing yards Deshaun Watson had as a Brown this year? Wow. I've got an exercise I want to play in a minute.
The first thing that I want to tell you is to exercise your right to delicious gummies. Oh, where am I? Happy place. M dot com. Happy place. M dot com. The promo code is Bart. Remember, at the end of the season for each win Green Bay has, they're going to have a bigger deal for you. So think about the two purchases you need to make right now at happy place.
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Relax, mellow, also help you focus. Not every gummy is a delta something. Not every gummy is a THC. Some of them are just to help you focus that are THC free. Some of them help you go to bed. The CBD, CBN ones, which I talk about and use a lot. They're seltzers to help you mellow out throughout the day.
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The promo code is Bart for twenty five percent off. I have another big thing to share, or at least that I'm thinking about. And that is the background behind me.
As you see, I have on the Dan Cheney YouTube stream. This is a Packer Super Bowl picture. This is all four Packer Super Bowls. This is the Bradley Center someone drew for me.
And this is the Bucks World Championship. What I think I might do is take down this. Sheet of Uncut Packers 1990 police cards that is autographed by every single player here, except for Brent Fullwood.
Why he wouldn't do it, I don't know. And I think I might replace it with what's been a Winkler family heirloom, where it's been the 13 and 0 poster of the Milwaukee Brewers, which my dad then added the Sports Illustrated that was given during that time, plus different Donres and Tops cards that he then implemented. So what people bought was this great poster. But then my dad bought a frame, which was obviously too big for the poster. So he filled it in with Sports Illustrated and trading cards, and I think this deserves a spot on the wall.
I agree on that. Brewers memorabilia is the coolest. Remember when they went 13 and 0? I remember, I remember specifically this used to be in my basement. This is in 1987, and I asked my dad. I said, did they win the World Series this year?
And he goes, no. I go, well, how far did they go in the playoffs? And he said, son, let me tell you about the Milwaukee Brewers.
They have not been in the playoffs in your lifetime and won't be until you're 24 years old. Team streak. You remember the Easter Day game, though, Easter Sunday.
Oh, God, yeah. All right. OK, hey, let's do let's do my favorite game where I give you teams or the field to win the Super Bowl.
All right. Lions or the field? Field. Lions. What? You just think they're winning?
Yep. That you would put a bet on it of, let's say, a thousand dollars. What do I get back?
Just the return. You either get a thousand dollars or zero. I give it to you. But you got to put it on something.
Yeah, if I say right now, wherever we find wherever we end up, I'll give you the money. You just got to be right. You're ragering nothing. Lions. Wow. So then it would go down, I guess, with each like a deal or no deal. So I'd say, all right, for nine hundred bucks, Lions chiefs are the field. Yeah, you're already out. So now it's a grant.
You're crazy if you don't take that grant. I would need you to throw in the bills. I would say Lions chiefs bills and I would take them over the field.
Sure. I want the bills or the Eagles. One of those two will get me there. Don't need both.
Just one. To be clear, I didn't know you were going to keep adding. I thought it was going to be like, I thought it was going to be chiefs or the field. But I was going to get a collection of teams.
But if you're you're very confident. But then you then if I asked you chiefs of the field, you can't say chiefs. And I'm just I thought I was going to pick one.
It doesn't matter. But yeah, I would rather have the bills, chiefs and lions. I would feel better about the bills, chiefs and lions than I would just the lions. But our friend Austin called me last night on the show and said the phrase. Matt Leflore has brought us nothing but agony. He asked you that on the air. Yeah, he says we have playoff losses. He goes the same way you thought Rogers was built to lose in an NFC championship.
I think Leflore is built to lose in the NFC divisional round. Well, I was on the show. I mean you. Oh, I did mention into the Winkler verse. I appreciate it. Oh, good. I appreciate you and the whole built to lose in the NFC championship game last night.
Because in a group chat we were chatting last night and I'm like. Seems like this team is going to win a very fun game in the wild card round. And then lose a game in Detroit or Philly exactly like that one. That does seem where this is trending.
And that's where it trended last year too. So a little bit of a theme. So are we are we personnel away or is this does this become the coach? I think I think Leflore is a very very very very good head coach. I think he's a very good coach too and I think the guys play for him.
Yeah. I think he got out coached last night. I think like you know that pick play that got OPI'd.
We just mentioned it a little bit ago. Watson's like I didn't like the guy ran into me. Are we sure that Dan Campbell and the Lions don't coach their guys to run in if they think they see a pick play.
And maybe get a call. Are we sure they're not like Matt Leflore like Matt Leflore is playing within the norms. But everybody else you find ways like the way to win in life is to cheat but not break the rules folks. That is the way to win in life. So I see where you're coming from. You don't break the real rules you break the unwritten rules.
Because there's no punishment to that. I see where you're coming from but if Watson just doesn't fumble that ball. That was bad fumble.
They weigh it. They probably win. And if we stop one of these wild fourth downs that go for a touchdown.
I mean I'm glad we stopped the one from the 30. Let's do a three quarters of the way through the year Jeff Halfley report card. Jeff Halfley is a B plus or better so far. Or B plus or better for Halfley. This is so stupid because like I would confidently say B but for whatever reason I can't say B plus.
Because there is a difference. I think Jeff Halfley has been fine. You asked if it's a personnel or a coach or anything. They don't have any fucking corners. They don't have a single one I like. Not a single one. Despite having multiple first round picks.
They had coming into the year they had one. And we're down to zero because Jair just doesn't play. Why are we just like oh Jair is not playing okay.
Here just hold on I actually have a Jair topic. How fucking dare you. You think he doesn't want to be out there Bart? I would like for people to ask that.
Fans like you are the fucking worst. You don't carry the G. Hey hey hey. Are you questioning his heart? No.
Hold on go ahead. Okay Grant funny. I wish that why aren't people doing that? I'm not doing it. But why aren't people doing it?
What? Why are people just being like oh Jair is missing. There should be. Like Packer fans are insane.
And we get mad about the littlest thing. Why is there not like a huge backlash for Jair. People would be like. There should be. There should be people and they might be wrong.
But there should still be these people saying get him off this team if he's not going to play. So I have a Jair quote. Let's just do it. I want to finish with Halfley. Alright yes.
Should we just fire him and hire Robert Salah or not? I like Halfley. I do too. I'm going to give him that B plus that I teased. So I was like because it's a B plus. I'm going to give him a B and then start to do the plus. But I have to start for this way otherwise it's a B minus. So I'm going to give him a B1. B1. Which is what my parents call me because I am the first of four brothers all with a B for their first name.
B1. I think you watch some of the stuff that happened in that game against the Lions. Defensively again I covered six years of the Packers under the fire Dom Capers. It's easy with the defensive coordinator. The Lions are really fucking good.
They are really really good and Ben Johnson equals sign Spolstra. So let's rewind to 20 minutes ago when Grant rolled his eyes. Because what you don't know Paul is that Grant and I have been cultivating some sort of level of ESP. And 20 minutes ago I know he was thinking the same thing that I was thinking. Paul's going to end up mentioning fucking Eric Spolstra on the show today isn't he?
I know I felt it. It's part of the canon of the show. It had to be brought up if not just implied.
It had to directly be brought up. Halfly can be a good B, B plus defensive coordinator so far. By the way it's his first year in the job.
He's learning things too. And you're going to lose to someone better than you. Ben Johnson is an A plus plus offensive coordinator and play caller who has a ton of talent. And again the Packers are and will transition to the topic without Jair. And without another decent corner. They lost Evan Williams and then they lost Bullard. And the Lions were banged up too. My point is when you don't have corners or safeties you can trust that really limits your options.
There's only so many things that you can run. So I think Halfly has been fine. They kept a minute in the first half. They couldn't get a stop in the second half when they needed it.
But in the big picture and I talked about this a lot too. They stopped the run. I think they came into this game saying we're not going to get run all over. And we'll just try to be good enough in all of the other facets of the game.
And they almost were. With the Nixon pick and getting the stop on fourth down. If Stokes or McDuffie or one of these guys pulls one more play out of their ass. In the entirety of the third or the fourth quarter. That's enough to win.
So I don't know. My whole life and my whole time that I've ever worked in this job. We've just been dumping on the Packers defensive coordinator. And I'm kind of over it.
I just don't want to do it anymore. They have a good one. I believe they have a good one. On the topic of Ben Johnson. I don't think. If I'm Ben Johnson. Do I want to be a head coach? You don't want to possibly be exposed as just.
Do I want to leave the situation? At least as long as Campbell's there. Because had they lost last night, the Lions. Nobody would have said, well, Campbell made the right decision to go for it. Ben Johnson called the wrong play.
Yeah, you get that protection. Nobody would have said that. Campbell made a crazy decision. Thank God Ben Johnson made the right play is what we're talking about. Yeah, people like don't know.
I don't know what he looks like. Like some nice anonymity. Yeah. So if you're the head coach, I mean, Lions fans aren't doxing his address after a loss and making him move. And then. OK, you're still like you're so good that you're going to keep coming up. Your name's got your name's going to keep coming up. We're not going to see you, but we know your name, which then he can just go back to the Lions and be like.
I mean, I would like more money to continue to do this job where I'm very good at it. And I also basically am failure proof as long as I've got a shield in front of me, which is crazy gambling. Dan, who is addicted to the rush of going for it on a fourth down. I mean, Dan, Dan Campbell, at some point in his career, will go for it on fourth down within his own 10 yard line. He will do it. He'll probably be a fake punt, but yes, he'll do it as long as he has an offensive play caller that he can go to. I think if there's like a post Ben Johnson era with the Lions, you can compare it pre and post. And I'm sure his fourth down percentage of going for it will be way less post Ben Johnson. He has maybe he can be this he can be this aggressive guy because of it. Like it's a to me, it's like a direct correlation.
Also, I'd answer your question, but I would say like the thing that always confuses me. So Ben Johnson, like most who presumably wants to be a head coach like I guess he proved that he didn't this past offseason. But let's say he eventually does. If you're the Lions, if you're any team and you have a great coach, I've never understood this.
You're going to spend. Tens of you're going to commit 300 million guaranteed dollars to Deshaun Watson, but you wouldn't pay. There's no salary cap for a coach.
There's no cap. Like if you have like, hey, we're going to make you the fifth highest paid coach in the league. Ben Johnson to be our offensive coordinator.
Oh, top five coach. No, no, you're going to be paid more than twenty seven other NFL head coaches to stay here. Like, why would you not if you really think about him the way I think about him and you're the owner of the team. There's no there's no amount of money you're allowed to spend. Like Dodgers, this thing and defer it, you know, like just give the guy that.
I don't know. I just it's never made sense to me that team would be willing to lose a coach over money when there's no cap on it. That's just cheap ownership. I would agree. But again, presumably he wants to be a head coach.
But I think your idea about the protection of having Dan Campbell makes a lot of sense. Well, how old is he? He's 38.
He's old as hell. He's got it. He better.
Yeah. So, I mean, if he wants to get a coaching job at some point in his career, he will. And he could he could he could ride out Campbell. He could ride out Campbell for another five, six years. There's no rush on him to become a head coach.
If you if you told me that Campbell and Ben Johnson were linked together for the next five years. I'm saying the Lions win at least two of those Super Bowls. At least at least always do this. We've got to stop doing this. Yeah.
You know, and also I didn't mind if they would have won last year. But now, like the grace period is over now. Oh, now it's done. I have the tweet drafts. Ben Johnson merchant.
That's queued up like I have I got him ready. Do you think real? And this is assuming Ben Johnson leaves to take a head coaching job this offseason. Let's hope it's not the Bears. Well, I agree. Well, another question is, are the Bears going to pay for him? Because presumably he's going to be the number one option. The Bears don't pay. So that's a whole other thing. But I do wonder if Ben Johnson's like, you know what?
I'm happy to be back in Detroit. And I he seems like he's all in on that. But I wonder if he doesn't at least think like, man, I could be the tip of the spear for this new commanders thing with all the money and Jayden Daniels.
I wonder if he's like, yeah, that would have been a good spot, but a better spot than even he thought when he turned it down. And I think that was an appealing job with the new owner and lot of money. I wonder because I haven't really looked at what jobs might come available, but I doubt there's going to be one with an owner ready to spend in a great rookie quarterback that talented with a lot of runway. I think when you look at how historically laughable the Washington franchise was, it makes sense that you wouldn't want that to be your leap.
But if you could fast forward to mid early mid-December and say, hey, this is what it looks like, you would do that. I would agree that there's not going to be a better job this offseason than what we know now to be true about Washington. I don't think I think sometimes offensive coordinators and even defensive coordinators, like you see these guys be so good at that and then go to coach. And because the like the pinnacle of some people's skill, you know, you go up running backs coach, whatever. Being a coordinator is like the pinnacle of that skill. And I would say I would say like a radio host, morning show radio host, that's what you do. All these things that you're good at are good for this job. But then the station needs a program director. Sure.
Yep. So then if you become the program director and still host, you're taking on all these other duties that you didn't prepare for. You didn't prepare for how to run an entire team. You prepared for how to scheme offenses and get the most out of your personnel.
And now you can do so many other things. So I think a lot of times we see coordinators fail as a coach and then we think, oh, they're just stupid. But I think we should be more clear is that like when I think I just think sometimes when we say, oh, he's a good coordinator, but a bad coach, people are like, come on.
I mean, but that is like the that's a very finite and accurate thing. I think that we can say I don't think Robert Sala is a good coach. I think he can take over a defense and have them top five in no time. But he's not a good head football coach. Fifty three men. And as the Bears are looking for a leader of men.
Yeah. The disrespect from Kevin or for Kevin Warren that I've like among football people, the guy who's now running the Bears is the people fucking hate that guy like no one. Track record, though, like Big Ten, like he's I don't know, like kind of feels deserved. He's the guy who almost canceled college football in the Big Ten for a year. So, yeah, which is why when the report they were going to play in the spring, dude, remember that? Jim Harbaugh wanted to coach the Bears to me. Red is all coach the Bears.
If you kick that bum out of the building, not I want to come here and they didn't want me. You're saying about Kevin Warren? Yeah. Are you defending Kevin Ward? No, I think I think these these this last round of reports of Harbaugh wanted to coach the Bears. I read that is I would love to be here, but I'm not working for Kevin Warren.
And the McCaskey's were like, well, he's our guy. So I didn't see that. That report came out with the hardball thing that they would said that last night on the broadcast. Yeah, it's been like the last 48 hours that there have been those stories. Oh, see, I have to watch these games on mute.
Yeah, that's got to be a lot of fun. So I don't have the ability to make a whole persona out of criticizing Al Michaels. I thought it was fine. I enjoyed the broadcast last night.
That they were good. Jair Alexander has missed 16 of the last 30 games and 30 of the last 64. Jair Alexander is very talented.
Jair Alexander should not be on the Packers next season at at least at his remote anywhere near his cap number. Or. Well, let me just write this out instead of saying it. Okay. And you will see it at the bottom of your screen.
I had this planned even before it came up, but it's just like I do think it. Well, you can't. I'm not saying he doesn't want to play the best ability is availability. Bart writes, you can't miss you cannot get half the games over the course of four years. And be considered a top player on that team, or counted on as any like you can't.
I would rather have 75 percent the talented of Jair who's available 90 percent of the time than this. You just you just can't do this. You can't build a defense this way.
We're one of your best, most highly paid defensive players. And it's not like, oh, wow, the guy, he should gut this out. I'm not criticizing him for being hurt. But if he is hurt, I don't want him on my team. Like he just if you can't miss that much time, it's not a criticism of his heart or his desire.
But no, like I'm not I can't do that again. Yeah, well, the problem is, well, and part of it is the contract, right? I was going to say, well, part of it is he's their only good corner.
But when you pay your top corner that much, it's not like you can you know, you can't invest in your number two and your number three guy as much. He hasn't played in any of the divisional games this year except for 10 snaps against Chicago. And so the only snaps he played, he missed the Vikings game is both of the Lions games.
And even to that point, that's kind of it. Like he's played, you know, he's missed 16 of the past 30. But when is he going to play 30 of the last 64? But Grant might just say real quick part like that's not even including the games that he played a handful of snaps and left. Mm hmm.
Mm hmm. Is he hurt? Like, is he should we IR him? He's got a torn PCL or a tear in his PCL. I just don't like if we're going to I don't like every week.
It's like, well, are we just should make a decision either. Well, what I don't get is the first time this is a reaggravation of a previous injury. And the first time he injured, he missed three weeks and they brought him back against the Bears on a pitch count.
He couldn't hack it. And then Jair afterwards says, I didn't have enough time off, which means four weeks or more, which means he should be on IR. But he's practicing. He practiced last week, this week going into the Lions game.
They just didn't play him. So I don't know what's going on with him. So spot track, by the way, there's an out in this there's an out this offseason. If you do get out, you have a nineteen nineteen million dollar dead cap hit in twenty twenty five. And you have a twenty will round up a twenty twenty six million of your cap will be dedicated to Jair if he's on your team. Twenty six if he's on the team. Nineteen if he's off.
So you only save seven million dollars. I think what was the question that question Jair Alexander should not be on this team next year. I mean, he should.
You just got to keep you just you're just going to just keep running into that same. But even when he's out there, it's not like he's Darrell Reeves at his peak. Right. Pretty good when he's been out there. This made that great play in Tennessee this year. That was I mean, that's a play that only less than a dozen NFL players on defense can make like he's extremely talented. But if he's not available, I just don't like counting on guys who are such drastic hits or misses. Like it's just again, if that's like your sixth best player on a certain side of the ball, like that's OK. But when he's like, OK, this is who we scheme around defensively as our guy who's going to shut down one side of the field and he misses half the game for four years. Well, I mean, you cherry pick much, Paul. I mean, come on. How are you like Eric? Eric Stokes is just about to figure it out. I can feel it, though. Well, obviously you're joking, but obviously I can't believe he's still on this fucking team. I can't believe he's on this team going into the draft this year.
I'm like, well, you can't trust Jair to be healthy and you can't trust Stokes. And good. He's like, what? The usher me. Watch me. Watch this. Watch.
I will do exactly that. And oh, you think Harrington Valentine's better and all the data supports it? We're going to play Stokes anyways. So that is the strange part that of course, of course it is. It doesn't make any sense. It's got to be. I mean, I would love to know you.
They won't answer that question now, but you've got to ask halfly and like his staff in two years when Stokes is gone. Hey, so what? What was the deal in twenty twenty four? Like what happened?
Why did you do this? All right. So you bring them back next year, Grant. So Bart said he would. Yeah. You're saying something to complain about. So, yeah, bring them back. And if he's hurt again, we'll just have content.
We always need like a Brad Jones, a Nick Perry. Those guys never made ten percent of the cap. So, oh, they made more than two percent of the cap, which was enough, by the way. That is the number, by the way.
Jair accounts for more than nine and a half percent. So let's just say ten percent of the Packers cap this year, next year and the following year, unless they opt out of the deal this offseason. If his name was Josh Adams and he wasn't so weird, I also think Packers fans would have less of a problem with him missing time. I just I don't I think his his antics, let's say, especially when he's missing all this time, doesn't land super well with fans. And to be fair, like it shouldn't if you're missing 50 percent of the games and making all the money.
I don't think the antics are that bad, but it's you know, it's something for fans to hop on. Yeah, this wasn't what I planned, but you guys said something earlier that made me think I just want to ask because we've asked versions of it at the beginning of the year. We had the at the end of the season, the Packers will have a wide receiver one or at this point in the season, the Packers have a wide receiver one. And by the way, this is coming off a game which your boy Jane Reed had a big old double goose egg. The Packers have a wide receiver one or. I mean, who did who does who does Jordan love?
They don't target anybody. Tucker Kraft. I almost said that. Yeah, I was hurt last night. I know, which kind of leads me to more think like, you know, Bart, your thing is like, you know who the MVP is when that guy doesn't play. This is this is a game where I'm like, oh, yeah, right. This is because Dobbs is their best wide receiver, which, by the way, I thought coming into the year, he was their fourth best receiver.
So I was, you know, I was wrong. I think I think Packers fans like I got a call hosting earlier today. It's like Jane Reed didn't involve them at all.
What the hell? It's like, well, there's always going to be a guy in any given week who's on the outside looking in. We know how many guys run this offense. We celebrated it.
We celebrated every week. We have five guys to your one or two. You know what I mean? Yeah, but like Dobbs and Watson and Kraft will have a great game. That's why didn't Jane Reed get the ball? And then the next week, Jane Reed will get the ball. But, oh, Christian Watson, not in the game plan again. Like not everyone can catch the ball all the time.
I don't know that it's possible for them to have a wide receiver. There aren't enough basketballs to go around. There's only one ball.
Let's put that on the graphic on the bottom. There's only one ball. But again, when you only throw the ball, it's that last night's death, you threw it 20 times.
You completed 12 of them. Yeah, like no one's going to be a wide receiver one on a team that completes 12 passes. Well, that's the thing. They're a run first offense, too. They're a run first, run second run.
Yeah, I mean, it's yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And they only did they only run 44 offensive plays to Detroit's 75? Seventy five to 44. And they only lost by last. I was stunned because I was looking at tackles and the Packers had like 88 tackles in the lines of like 46. The play count was 75 to 44 and they lost at the buzzer with a field goal.
Like that's that's a game that shouldn't be close. Yeah. My last topic for you and it's not. Is it soldier related? No, it is not.
It should be. This is all about this is Ben Johnson. This is one that we're going to this will be a fun one. The golden at bat idea.
You would apart left. The golden at bat idea, if it came to fruition. Would be something you would love within three years or I say this because you bar in particular are always against rule changes.
And 90 percent of the time, maybe 100. You end up really liking the thing. I end up being OK that it exists at the very you've never said after the fact. Like, yep, you know, that rule change that I was really against. I was right. No, like it's always been good or neutral. So Manfred is in it. And again, it's not like. When I did when crazy ass ideas for a certain league come out, it's it's from a podcast. Sure.
Or like a fan. It's never from the actual fucking commissioner. But he said it. And yeah, he's he's saying that we should give a golden at bat. So you can put in whoever you want at any time once a game.
So let me just let me let me spoil. I think what it would do is revitalize the sports radio industry during baseball season. Yeah, because then every day we could talk about why did they use the golden at bat in the seventh? Are we sure that we should always give the golden at bat the one Soto?
I mean, these other guys are these other guys are on a heater right now. Why do we need to save the golden at bat until the sixth or later? What if the biggest spot of the game is in the second? It's later when they should use him. Why not?
Why not start every game with one Soto hitting third and second? It's a great I've never heard this voice before. It's brand new.
It sounds like it's like it's polished. Well, it's like you can you can use it as an extension of other baseball topics, too. It's like you pay all this money for one Soto and you don't even use the golden batter on it. You pay this money for one Soto. He's only giving you four at bats a game. All right, so I'm going to just not shock you, I don't think, and I'm going to say I really like it.
Oh, Jesus Christ, Paul. I like it a lot. No, I like it because it adds more strategy, which is what it should like. That's a good thing.
I've been keeping book with my dad for 30 years. We haven't figured out how to correctly do the golden at bat. Now you just turned into Seinfeld. What's the deal? What's the deal with the golden at bat? And then if it's a golden at bat, how come the best guy to do it is called the silver slugger. OK. Use that store that it's not even funny.
It's like somehow works. Most Seinfeld bits aren't funny. And you just I mean, you just like the most I think the best known Seinfeld bit isn't even a Seinfeld bit. What's the deal with corn nuts? Is it a corner?
Is it a nut? I think the I think the point of it is it's so great. You watched how many of the past hundred and sixty two regular season Brewers games like like really, truly watch them. Hundred and twenty of the one sixty. I was going to say one twenty something like that. Yeah, I'm I'm a guy who has had Brewer season tickets. I've had Brewer season tickets. I think when I'm older, I'll probably get right back into baseball as being like a thing, because I think you can't be half in on baseball. Like that's it's a hard sport to be like, oh, I'm going to watch every fourth day or once a week. You have to be really in or really out. So as someone who wants to watch more baseball, but it didn't strike me as something to do with my nights or days in twenty, twenty four.
I would love a little jolt of a thing that would bring me in. And then I think it would be really fun and different. So I think it's like if you're a hardcore fan, you don't want it. Well, you know, baseball is baseball. Thirty years from now, they're going to be 30 minute games where you just pick five guys to have a home run derby.
See, like I saw some complaints that were it's like. Rob Manfred's job should be I mean, tell me if you disagree with this. His job is to grow the game. Oh, fuck me.
No, it's what was true. Job didn't even grow a game anyway. Stop it. Stop it. Be literal for a minute.
No, I'm serious. I always say grow, grow the game. How do you grow? What does that even mean? What does it mean?
I can't tell if you're kidding or not. Grow the game. We got to grow the game. I've been trying to grow soccer for 30 fucking years. See, but now it's all their game.
The MLS Cup is this weekend. Bet you didn't know that. And you can watch it on Apple TV Plus.
He's still easier to watch than a Marquette top 10 matchup. That's true. So you're being serious.
ESPN Plus. They run out of numbers. That's a fucking that's a good pocket that voice. I like that a lot.
I get what you're saying, Paul. But you want to appeal to a new audience. You want to broaden your appeal.
You need to. Yes, you do need to broaden your appeal. What if there's one person's job on earth who it is to expand baseball's audience? It's the commissioner of the league. That's I think that's like the job description. So now the job description is to protect owners and make them more money. That's the that's actually what they're doing. But what the job description should be is to make those owners more money by growing the game by expanding your alienating your longest and most.
I don't think you will think. What about baseball fans? What about actual baseball fans? What about people who like like watching just, you know, a baseball game in their neighborhood? And maybe they'll go support the local high school team three times a year because they like watching baseball. And then their professional team plays a sport that's like Kelvin ball. And by the way, I like your argument that you've made where it's like, well, I want I want the sport to be the same at every level.
Do you like it because it's smart? Golden at bat should be universal. You want to put the golden at bat and fucking little league? I want to put it at least at high school ball. I've coached high school ball. I want my golden at bat. All right.
I don't go pick up my kid who will never be a golden at bat participant. I just want to know two things from you guys. I'm I'm flabbergasted that you don't think the commissioner should. This should whether you love or hate this particular idea that you don't think it's his job. We can do a long we can have a what do you like to say? A lot of long form. We could talk more long form in the future about the role of a commissioner.
I think that'd be good. Yeah. Two over unders for you. Over under tonight, Chris Middleton, 17 and a half minutes under really. Over under tonight, Chris Middleton, 17 and a half games played until the playoffs. How many are left? Fifty eight.
Over. I mean, we we we dance around not calling Jair Chris Middleton, but it's the same thing. I don't like it's not even close to the same thing. One guy's way past his athletic prime won the team a title that's not does the 12 days of Christmas.
Yeah. Golden at bat gold in the inside of my ass. You know, I don't like the golden at bat. Paul is because it's now a means for all of the people in sports media to prove how non lame they are. It's it's a it's a means for sports talkers to say, I love it because the purists need to get with the times.
I don't like that. So let me just be clear. You guys are far more invested in the sports media than I at this point. I've not heard anyone. Not that I've heard 20 opinions on it, but I've not seen anyone be like, good idea.
Yeah. Are there people who cowherd fans will hate this, but I'm not a fan. It's like, oh, I hate things that give sports talkers that lane. They're all thinking it a white guy that got suspended. He didn't he didn't try to kill Trevor Lawrence.
Why are we acting like he did? Well, I don't think that was that bad of a hit. It was a very bad hit.
All right. Well, then say, dude, that was a bad hit. You should be suspended for three games.
I actually do one thing about the end of the story. One thing I've always thought, though, is when you do do it, I think when there is an illegal hit, if Trevor Lawrence is going to miss four games, the offenders should miss the same number. Then you can strategize where you leave your quarterback out longer to screw over the guy that. But you I mean, you wouldn't you're not going to keep your quarterback out longer.
So a defensive player can be suspended longer. Like that's not going to happen. I have to go. My son's standing outside in the cold.
That's actually even better. Let's keep chatting. Goodbye, gentlemen.
Bye. Guys, thank you for joining the program. We'll chat next week about commissioners. Yeah, we should. And Ben Johnson. All right, guys, see you.
