Giannis MVPs vs Rodgers MVP, NBA Playoff Preview, NFC North Lookaround!

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Indeed.com slash BlueWire, terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Good morning, everybody. My name is Bart Winkler.

Great to be here with you. Now, I don't have on this episode, it was sent to the publishers prior to Brewers and Diamondbacks. So I don't have a breakdown of Monday night's game. This is a throwback to the newspapers. When you would get him in the morning, and it would say Brewers at Arizona late, you would be unaware of what the Brewers did. If you just picked up the morning paper. I don't even know how people found out about the Brewers game. If it wasn't in their morning paper.

Thankfully, you have the internet. And if you want a good breakdown of the game, I'm sure a lot of my fellow cohorts, the Adam McKelvies of the world will give you a good breakdown. And God don't we know that if you're looking for prime Brewers coverage, the Milwaukee radio market will have you covered this morning. What great Brewers coverage you are about to get by your Milwaukee radio heroes?

I roll emoji. Well, Bart, why are you ripping on the Milwaukee radio guys or something you don't do either? Because I got fired from Milwaukee radio. If I was live this morning on the air in Milwaukee, I would be doing several hours on the Brewers hours. But since I am trying to hack it as a podcaster, I fell asleep in bed watching the game. Last evening, we will break all of the Brewers and Diamondbacks action down with our series finale recap show later this week. Want to talk NBA want to talk NFL. Before I get to any of that, I got to do this.

This is a question that I get a lot regarding Aaron Rodgers and Giannis and the difference in how I talk about their MVPs and what it means to each individual. This is a Carl's place voicemail 402915 B a RT. Remember to check out Carl's place Carl of et.com backslash Bart for any and all golf simulator needs. You can also check that out at the website Bart Winkler show dot com. This voicemail comes from Matt in the falls. Bart to me again. I'm still listening to today's episode. Just use of the time.

One by one by two to two. You know how it goes. Um, and I'm listening to talk about Giannis's historic season and how you really think he should have more MP MVP consideration and you'd like to be hearing more about that. Um, and then I thought about how you would tell us that, um, Aaron Rodgers MVP awards mean absolutely nothing to you.

And I'm just wondering where the disconnect is. Um, I think it's obviously we'd love Giannis as a person. We don't like Rogers, so I'm not sure that has something to do with it. And probably the lack of championships by Rogers since 2011 while Giannis has put one up recently.

So, um, I'm just kind of wondering where, you know, where the difference is there. Um, I think MVPs are awesome for our athletes. I think they give us bragging rights. Um, you know, sitting around, sitting around the grill with the boys at the tailgate and you're, you're talking about the growth, the growth, the goats, you got, you know, you got to have MVP, throw them out there. That's something you can't, you can't deny that an MVP is the peak. So I think we should want our athletes to be, um, you know, winning MVPs and we should want them to be successful because that makes our teams more successful.

Even when we don't have a defensive coordinator forever, but you get the idea. Um, so yeah, I just want to hear your thoughts on, um, maybe why, maybe why you think so differently between Giannis and Aaron's MVPs. And I am happy to answer that.

And it's about time. I do. I've been asked that question a lot and I've kind of given some answers, but also it's something I might dance around. It's hard to come up with an answer. Honestly, I it's hard to come up with an answer.

And so I'm going to try to actually give you a tangible one. Um, I am a guy who a lot of times I will give takes and I believe them. I believe them.

I believe Jordan love is going to be good because Aaron Rogers wouldn't let him play. I believe that. So I think I'm right. Could be wrong, but I believe it. I believe the Denver Nuggets will not get to the NBA finals. Could be wrong, but I believe it. I believe I'm right with this Rogers MVP discussion.

Basically what it gets down to is I crap all over Rogers for his MVPs and I actively campaigned for Giannis. Why? Uh, so I'm trying to figure that out here. I'm trying to figure out why. And I can come up with a couple of reasons why, and if they're not good enough, they're not good enough, but this is how I view them as different.

One, I think the biggest thing, let me just start with the biggest thing. The biggest thing is how they are viewed by the two individuals or how I've been viewing how they view them. For instance, I hear Rogers talk a lot about how he's won MVPs. I've won MVPs.

I'm a four time MVP. I went back to back MVPs and he does it a lot to use and negotiation to talk himself up to maybe why he should get what he thinks he deserves. It seems to be a very individual award for him and MVP is most valuable player. So yeah, it is an individual award, but what Giannis said the other day about it, I've never heard Rogers come close to saying anything like this. I'm very proud that I am able to play at an MVP level because that means I'm making my team very successful.

That's the goal. So what I perceive is that Rogers likes MVPs because it's another award on his shelf. And why Giannis likes MVPs is it means he played at a level to make his team get an award on all of their shelves.

So for better or worse, that's one of the reasons that I view it differently. A couple more MVPs in the NBA I think are more important than in the NFL. I could probably go back and name you the MVP 30 of the last 35 years, and I might miss one or two in the NBA. In the NFL, I mean, I know Lamar Jackson won a while ago. I think Mahomes did. Maybe even this year.

I'm not, I don't know as much. It just doesn't. It doesn't have the season long discourse and the historical magnitude in the NFL that it does in the NBA. In the NFL, it's a great award in the NBA.

It's like the thing to help you distinguish. Well, who are the top guys going to be when history looks back at this? And I think that for Giannis, every MVP that he earns is going to help him be what could be a top five player in NBA history. And I don't think Rogers is at that level. He's, I mean, he's a very, I guess close, but I don't think that we're going to, it's not going to come, it comes down to championships more in the NFL. It comes down to championships.

Sure. In the NBA too, but that MVP is a big qualifier. I think another thing is we're in the middle of it. So what you're hearing from me is I'm talking a lot about getting Giannis more MVPs. Rogers, I don't believe is going to win another MVP.

And I actually think you're foolish. If you think he's going to go to New York and win an MVP or wherever he's going to play, his MVP years are done. I know he just won one two years ago, but I think they're done. And so when I'm arguing for Giannis, it's not just also arguing for Giannis.

It's arguing against the other guys. I desperately don't want Jokic to get an MVP. It like, it means a lot to me that he doesn't because of the historical levels. I don't want him to be the guy that wins three MVPs in a row for the first time since Larry Bird in the eighties. I don't want that.

And so I have a guy that I can hype up. So it means more from that standpoint. Also, this is a little bit different and I'm not sure how much of I, how much of the pie I would give this, but I think it's different than it's Milwaukee. Giannis wears Milwaukee on his chest.

Rogers wears a G on his helmet, but Giannis wears Milwaukee on his chest. And so I feel like it's, it's easier for me to argue for something for Milwaukee than it is for a, uh, for Green Bay with all due respect to the city by the Bay, the city that never sleeps. Green Bay, Wisconsin home of a great railroad museum that, uh, really people only go to when it's hot and they need a place to go inside the air conditioning. Also home of the, uh, Green Bay Booyah I think is the current name of that team. They're changing every couple of years. Uh, also the great UW GB campus, which is 15 miles Northwest of town. Uh, you have to like open up some marsh.

It's the worst college location of all the UW systems in the state. Anyway, Green Bay slander aside, those are some of the reasons why I differentiate the two also because with fi and then this is, there's Brett fire factor. Rogers is doing something that I just saw someone else do. And maybe that's unfair, but Rogers, what did far do you want to super bowl on three MVPs? What did Rogers do?

You want to super bowl on four MVPs? I kind of already saw that. So this is where the entitled town factor comes in. I've never seen a buck this good. There hasn't been a buck this good in 50 years. I never dreamed that the bucks would be this good.

The seventies and eighties Packers that's been the bucks my whole life. So there's that factor to it as well. Some of these are not fair in the argument. I do understand that some of these are not fair, but my main point and the main reason I look at him different and it's not because I like Yanis and I don't like Rogers, but it's because I view Rogers thinking of the MVP as something that should inflate him and get him paid and get him accolades and get him the money he wants. Where I think that Yanis views him as if I'm playing at this level, that means my team is going to win. That means I can win more championships with my team. That's where I find the main difference. And also we're still seeing it happen. You know, if, if Yanis ends up winning four MVPs and only as one championship, then we're going to look back and it's going to be a very easy comparison, but us not knowing the roadmap that Yanis is going to take us on and my back of the head belief that I do feel like the bucks are going to win the championship this year. I think that, you know, that argument will be null and void afterwards.

So long story short, there's plenty of reasons, but what it comes down to for me is that they mean more to Rogers and the team means more to Yanis. You can catch me saying these words into a computer screen, thanks to our YouTube sponsor, Dan Cheney insurance. Now I'm just reading right off the bottom of my YouTube crawl. Dan's a local independent insurance agency and he specializes in finding the best prices for your auto home and business insurance with multiple company options in Wisconsin. Call 414-732-2542 or visit DanShaney.com today. Dan's been a long time listener to the show and it's good to have him as part of the proceedings here in the Bart Winkler stratosphere.

So those would be my thoughts on that. I'm going to talk some more basketball here. Matt Miller, who I've been going back and forth with Hardwood Paroxum on Twitter about the MVPs.

I had him on in the Zach Galb show to more so, you know, the MVP stuff, try to avoid it. I do want to talk about the NBA playoffs. The Timberwolves are a disaster. The Mavericks didn't make the playoffs. They're a disaster.

And of course I think his nuggets are disaster, but not my bucks. So Matt Moore, my conversation with him on the Bart Winkler show next. We're driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors according to Indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast.

Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day, Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash blue wire. Just go to indeed.com slash blue wire right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash blue wire terms and conditions apply. Need to hire you need Indeed. For the ones who work hard to ensure their crew can always go the extra mile and the ones who get in early so everyone can go home on time. There's Grainger offering professional grade supplies backed by product experts so you can quickly and easily find what you need. Plus, you can count on access to a committed team ready to go the extra mile for you.

Call click Grainger calm or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Welcome back. I want to remind you about my good good buddies at Happy Place hemp. Do I sound more professional? Do I sound more I'm I'm actually don't tell anyone. I'm talking into the microphone right now at at the 1250 building. I don't know if I'm supposed to do this.

I feel so dirty. But I am talking about Happy Place hemp. Happy Place hemp calm the promo code is Bart 25% off every single order at Happy Place hemp calm whether it's the CBD or the CB ends the combo pack to help you sleep at night perhaps took one of those last night slept like a baby is what I'm assuming I'm telling you that I'm going to take one before I actually took it but my prior history tells me that I'm going to sleep like a baby and in this little section I'm like both trying to come at you live and also I told you I'm recording really good stuff here I can see why they let me go Happy Place hemp calm promo code Bart 25% off each and every order again the tinctures the oils and everything else that you could ask for Happy Place hemp calm you can also stop in the promo code is Bart at Happy Place hemp calm interested in this tweet from Tim Shea Tim a frequent Happy Place hamper says that he has a special announcement yeah Tim says Tim tweeted big Tim Shea news on the Bart Winkler show this Wednesday's live show after the Brewers game you don't want to miss it eyeball emoji Tim Shea bring in the fire very interested to check out what he's going to have for us all right mentioned I was at the 1250 building last night on Zach Gelb's program talked to I talked about all my favorite you know takes about how Denver shouldn't have a sports team because they're too high about how I hate every baseball rule and then I like it I'm really exploring my new take that I don't think the draft should be a thing well it should be a thing but it shouldn't be rewarding the bad teams and that's one of the takes that I brought up with Matt Moore hardwood peroxim on Twitter HP basketball now we have talked him and I in the past and more recently on Twitter about Jokic first Yanis and MVP and all this stuff and he covers the Nuggets locked on Nuggets he does that and so rather than getting the MVP fight we've had a million times I wanted to tell him that in the West I think there's a few teams that could come out of the West I don't think the Nuggets are one of them and I wanted him to convince me why among other things we talked about on Zach Gelb's show I mean I can't tell you right right now I think when you look at it the way it is a season they had an opportunity there they were playing championship basketball for about three months really between December and February and really historically when we look back at the NBA that's like the most indicative time and if you're trying to match up that like what time of the season has the most success correlated with playoffs it's actually the middle of the season you're past that first part of the year when everybody's just trying to figure stuff out the last month of the season super messy but the Nuggets coasted too much so their floor is very low like this is the key is Nuggets floor extremely low when they're bad they're awful defense isn't their offense you don't look at the same kind of firepower but when they're clicking they're awesome like they can they can hang with anybody when things are locked in and going and when they saw that you know top five defense for three months of the season like that stretch when they were engaged in playing basketball and they got that number one seed they're a contender can they do it consistently that's the kind of question I mean I think it's fine to wonder about them it's fine to question about them what I will say is can't sit here and be like oh no these other teams are definitely better everyone's flawed in the West everyone's beatable in the West and that's kind of key here is it's gonna depend on matchups shooting variants who's locked in and who's healthy yeah Wes is gonna be insane Wes could be like the final four where you have a bunch of low seeds I mean if you look at how things are gonna go let's say the Lakers get the seven I mean with all due respect to the Kings I like the Warriors there then suddenly you have a path where it could be the Suns and the Nuggets and I mean I'm gonna take the Suns in that matchup I like the Suns out of the West and you know the the teams at the top of it great seasons for the most part like you said the Nuggets the Grizzlies the Kings should be very happy about what they've done but the this is there's there's so many teams that like didn't play a full 82 you know or got pieces late in the season that it's really hard to it's really hard to look at the seeding number and and think that that matters that much this year okay but what you're doing is you're going against all of NBA history because NBA history says you're not a top three seed you do not win the title there's been one in 20 years the 2004 Pistons since 2000 since the three-point era sorry back to 80 there's been nine teams outside of the top three to win their conference teams that don't win on the road like the Warriors Warriors of 30 road losses teams with 30 road losses to make the playoffs there's 18 of them 17 of them went out in the first round and I'm not sitting here and saying that's gonna happen well I'm saying is what I don't get is the idea of like oh but you got to love these other teams these teams are way better they've told you the entire year no they're not the entire year they've told you no you're not you go to the Lakers you go yeah but what about that run after they got all the pieces in the trades go look at that schedule it's cupcakes it's nothing it's home heavy versus banged up teams in a month of March that was extremely messy I'm with you in the idea that this regular season might make it harder than ever to tell who's really good but what we can't do is we can't turn around and then go but these other teams are really good despite telling us all year now we're really middle and beatable you know it's funny about the West too as we talked to Matt Moore is what happened with the Mavericks over the weekend the NBA wants to investigate why they did what they did all they need to look at is their rules about how if you're a worst draft pick or if you're a worst team you get a better draft pick I mean I've been going on this crusade now and I'm gonna call it a crusade this is my passion project now I think that I don't think the draft should reward the worst teams in the league I think that they should all get the same amount of odds and it should be a big lottery on TV because nothing else in America does this except for sports we incentivize losing it makes a joke out of the regular season it makes a joke out of this whole weekend it just makes a joke I don't get why in sports is a big picture question why are we giving why do we give bad teams good draft picks I for one I'm tired of it your thoughts you know I used to be against you I used to be like no no like these smaller markets need these types of advantages in order to have an opportunity to compete and rebuild I'm with you the Mavericks literally got me there when you have a team that literally said we have a top five player in the NBA we have the preseason MVP favorite who wants to compete and we're quitting nah we're good we're not even gonna make a try we're not even gonna try we're gonna back out and intentionally try and lose like something is deeply broken when we have that kind of opportunity we're like no no we got to make sure that we can get the 10th draft pick because that's gonna make a difference what are we doing here like at some point the point is winning and then I would say is like what I've learned and cover the league over 15 years is it's not about the talent on the roster it's about how good your organization is if you told the Spurs and the Thunder hey you get the number one pick if you finish with the best record outside of the playoffs you know what those teams would do they would build teams exactly to be that good because their organizations are good their ownerships are good their front offices are competent they have structure all the way down you look at the bottom the Spurs are there because that's the incentive but a lot of these other teams are teams that are not run well enough and I agree with you we got to stop rewarding that and start rewarding teams that actually put good structures in place speaking of broken the Minnesota Timberwolves I love that what I've been saying about Rudy Gobert is this guy goes out and you know the pandemic starting we don't know like what's gonna happen and what is this and then he touches a bunch of microphones okay and then two days later he shuts down the league because he was the first one to test positive for the virus that's not even like on the Mount Rushmore of things we're gonna look back at Rudy Gobert for and say well that was stupid because the trade was stupid the amount that they got was stupid whatever he did this weekend was stupid and now he's not gonna play in this playing game I'm not sure I have a question I just I'm looking for someone to trash the Timberwolves with me I guess you know what's funny though man is like look at look at that game right so Rudy goes through this he gets sent home he has not only fit to the locker room he gets told to go home and the wolves somehow claw back from a double-digit deficit and get a win and jayden mcdaniels broke his hand doing something my college buddy did my roommate did in college drunk yeah like this is this has been the wolves all year where bad things have befallen them some self-created some not but and it's been bad they face that adversity but they keep crawling back like I'm actually pretty impressed with the wolves and Chris Finch for that was a situation where everyone easy to completely splinter apart and just fall apart but no like they battled back like towns goes out for months he was supposed to be out like eight weeks he missed like three months of the season but they managed their way through and what's what's sad is that I've been a Rudy Gobert critic for years in Utah being like no no we've gone too far with this guy he's overrated he's not this elite player he's good but he's very flawed and now I've gone the other way where this season I've actually been like you know Rudy's actually been really good this year and they've trusted him and they've actually given him the ball and he's made some hook shots for once in his life and then he caps all of that off with this entire incident the wolves might be an embarrassment but I will say that at least they keep battling because that's what you want to see in sports you want to see these teams at least try and get through it if nothing else the wolves are rallying together against their own teammates so in that respect I guess Rudy might be helping them in the Eastern Conference my line that I keep saying to everybody is I think there's I think pretty much anybody can beat the Celtics now I think the Celtics would win a lot of these series but I think they can be beaten by a lot of teams I think they are the only team though that would actually beat the Bucks and I don't take too much stock into what's happened in the last season or two in the regular season but I do take stock into what happened last playoffs where they just seem to have guys that step up and play their best basketball against Milwaukee whether it's Grant Williams or Al Horford or Derek White or whatever so in the East I think it's the Bucks to lose and I think the only team that can get them is the Celtics what do you like in the East? Yeah I like the Celtics for mostly what you kind of outline here the Sixers are gonna have to show me like they're just gonna have to show me you got Doc Rivers you got James Harden and I'm sorry but you got Joel Embiid who has had some monumental playoff failures that he has been able to pawn off literally throwing teammates under the bus before so those three are gonna have to show it to me cause Embiid's record versus the Celtics the 52 point late regular season when most of the seedings were decided without Robert Williams and Jalen Brown game aside the Celtics have owned Embiid so they're gonna have to show me this I agree with you in that I think a lot of teams could have beaten the Celtics like if they keep getting that 2-7 they're gonna be a pain and Boston's gonna have a hard time putting them away somehow and I think the Cavaliers that they've been on that side of the bracket could have given them a run but the Celtics I think are gonna make it to the conference finals I do think that they're gonna be a team that can beat the Bucks I think the Bucks win last year Chris Middleton's healthy but not this year I think the Celtics are better this year in every facet and historically the Bucks always have like the perfect formula everything's working and they just don't hit shots that's been that the history of the Bucks in the playoffs even in the year that they won the title so the Celtics I think will hit enough shots I think the Celtics are coming out of the East like when they trade for Nikola Mirotic who's hitting threes better than anybody and then he comes to Milwaukee and forgets how to shoot like he's the pitcher and rookie of the year or something it was awful hey okay so for the future this play that's not playing this in-season tournament thing I gotta find a reason as a fan to care about it cuz I'm not getting excited for this side tournament if all that it matters is if my team the teams I root for get half a million dollars more but you can't like give them a playoff spot that's stupid I just I think that Adam Silver saw what happens in Europe with like soccer and it's really cool what goes on there's just not a way for it to happen in the NBA I'm willing to try it and watch it but I think it's gonna be like one of the bigger flops in sports history is that too extreme like the blue pocket hockey and things like that but maybe hey I'm a blue hey I'm a glowing puck truther so I thought you might bring that up but I'm a truther fair enough I'll say this it's on the players like the NBA trying to give the players a reason to care and then the players are eventually gonna have to decide that they care about these games and they probably won't because of how much they get paid and it's guaranteed so long and travel so bad I'll say this I'm hopeful that when we get to a situation where it's the single elimination actual tournament and it's not about I want to win this for my team in my city no no no that's not how any players operate but if you tell them hey that guy's been chirping at you for this entire season you get to send him home you get to be in a one-game elimination and send him out and we've always found that in those games the stakes get higher things get more tense and the games get better this provides some stakes in the regular season which has been sorely lacking so I'm willing to give it a shot but ultimately it's gonna be on the players to make it worth it Matt appreciate your time love your coverage action network the twitter account and everything you do good luck in covering the playoffs and we'll talk again thanks man take care appreciated that for Matt always do always a pleasure he was on the Zach Gelb show I was filling in my name is Bart as in the four letters you type in at OmahaStakes.com promo code Bart $30 off they've got a burger sale going on hey I saw my neighbor out grilling yesterday you know what he's a good neighbor maybe I'll buy him some Omaha Steaks I think I might do that he's a really good neighbor he likes to grill but I can't just he's gotta like do something for me I can't just like give him food because then he'll feel like he's in debt to me hmm or maybe I'll just say it's from a secret admirer but then maybe he'll think it's from my wife I don't know the promo codes Bart $30 off your packages at OmahaStakes.com one other thing I wanted to do is I talked with Matt Collar he's from Purple Insider this is a guy who used to do radio in Minnesota at the same station where Rami was in Minnesota for a while Score North and then like the summer that everybody in radio lost their jobs he was one of them so he started a sub stack and he started Purple Insider where he does the same kind of stuff that I do he's on Blue Wire he's one of my Blue Wire guys so I'm trying to cross over more with Blue Wire guys and what we did was a podcast for his show and for my show now I'm gonna cut some of it out we did a segment and you buy or sell fans will love this it's called agree or disagree we did a segment where we did agree or disagree on a lot of things on the NFC North and he asked me about the Packers and so I gave him all the greatest Bart hits that Aaron Rodgers thinks Jordan Love is good why I don't like Aaron Rodgers I mean I gave them all the greatest Bart hits so I'm gonna cut that part out as you've heard it many times before instead an old-fashioned NFC North look around like my friends on the Bill Michael show used to do myself with Matthew Collar again Purple Insider for any of you that are Vikings fans you can check out his podcast we're not sure we like doing each other's shows and we have a good rapport and we like each other I'm not sure how many Vikings fans he's gonna send to my podcast and how many Packers fans I'm gonna send to his but a great guest to have on just to talk some football here on what is really a dry couple of weeks in the NFL but we did our best to make it interesting this is Matt Collar here on the Bart Winkler agree or disagree the Lions past history matters and they are going to let everyone down despite the hype agree or disagree that the Lions will let everyone down because Lions I am going to disagree I think I feel like the Lions might be figuring it out and you know it's a bummer they lost Jamal Williams for them he was really good but they did get David Montgomery which just completes the NFC North as the division of incest which I got I swear we do it more in this division than any other division it's really weird and said didn't Dean Lowry sign with the Vikings he did yes yes it's there by the way he stinks it wasn't good last year it wasn't good but but no you're exactly right I mean this is the history of the entire NFC North the not just far but there's all sorts of Packers that end up Greg Jennings or even Gilbert Brown showed up here at one point so yeah no anyway carry on but you're absolutely right it's definitely like that well I got more Robert Ferguson Ryan Longwell a bunch of bunch of guys yeah I can't my thoughts okay never mind I said I'm feeling like the Lions can be okay and are they gonna win the division well the division might be wide open I think that it depends how Jordan love does because in the Packers if Jordan loves good the Packers are caped this divisions bad so all it's gonna take is somebody to win maybe 10 games and which of these teams is gonna win those 10 games I think the Bears are on the up you talk about that but with the Lions I'm not like I think this current Lions team is good and if people want to worry that well in the past they sucked well then you can worry about that but I think the group they have there they came in the Lambeau field on a Sunday night with nothing to play for and they pretty much ended Aaron Rodgers career as a Packer and unfortunately I saw that with my own eyes it was the one game I went to this season at Lambeau field and boy what a miss that was very very much regretting that but I think that they can be good obviously the receivers are getting better the defense is getting better are they content with Jared Goff which is interesting like some of these quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson why are the Lions getting him why there's 20 teams that should be in on Lamar Jackson and for some reason there's like not even the Ravens want to admit that they want Lamar Jackson so but I don't know because right now Jared Goff is a top five quarterback in the NFC how bad this conference is I am not gone that if I'm a Lions fan I know it's gonna be hard but I'm gonna try to close my eyes at history and look at this team and think we might have something there so I'm going to disagree I don't think the history matters but it would be true Lions form to get everybody to think that and then suck well I think that the supporting cast for Jared Goff including his offensive coordinator is so good that Jared Goff can be and I don't mean an elite quarterback in the same way that Joe burrow is an elite quarterback but I mean elite offensive production overall to continue to be a top five offense as they were last year because they have good receivers good offensive line they run the ball well they scheme it up for Jared Goff and they don't ask him to really do too much if he just executes that offense it's kind of like it was with the Rams where they had the good offensive line that's the crazy thing about golf is if he can drop back set and throw dude is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL if he has to move like two feet it's over and he's bad it's the it's the it's very Alex Smith Ian of Jared Goff so I don't look at them as a true Super Bowl contender even though the NFC is still very weak in comparison to the AFC but I don't think that their history matters at all I mean you look at a bunch of teams that historically were absolutely horrendous how about the New Orleans Saints before Drew Brees just a laughingstock the Buffalo Bills before Josh Allen like this happens all the time where teams are down for a long time and then suddenly things click into place and they're a lot better you have to go back quite a ways but the Green Bay Packers weren't that great before Brett Favre so that that is how it goes I would say though that it's not without potential potholes because if things don't go the way that they did last year for them offensively and some of these signings don't work as well as they're expected to they could end up being a mediocre team again like I think we're just sort of assuming and we do this all the time whatever we kind of saw in the second half of last season was the truth for next season and everything that was wrong has been fixed and nothing new will be wrong and it will all be fine going into next year I don't know that that's always the case but it just seems like who's better on paper from top to bottom for a roster and a coaching staff than the Lions and I don't think that's anybody in the NFC North they are good enough that for at least one year we can avoid the should the Lions get a Thanksgiving Day game every season they're good enough that we can table that for at least one year and I think for that franchise that's a massive that's a massive win. When was the last time in your life that the Packers were playing the Lions and you were like oh I don't know I mean other than this last week 18 where you thought okay they could come in and win a win before that in your life were you like I don't know it's pretty good there were some things giving games where we went in there and sucked by the way I'm a we guy I say we just so everybody knows but really it was the the playoffs with far as first super playoff game win where he hits sterling sharp at the end of the game and Barry Sanders I remember Barry Sanders is here in a playoff game or a late December game and they held him to negative one yards and it was like it was a it was a mere is like the greatest thing that's ever happened to me in my life up at that point as a Packer fan so it's been a it's been a healthy 30 years to answer the question. There was a moment there where they were like a 10 win team maybe you were concerned about Calvin Johnson and I would say there was a I think it was 95 where Scott Mitchell had his one great year that they were legitimately dangerous but that's how far you have to go back to say legitimately dangerous about the Detroit Lions. Next topic for you Bart and and by the way I of course am more on the journalist side so not a we guy but no problem with the we and this is a debate with fans all the time my thing is if you buy tickets and buy jerseys and paid taxes on the stadium and invest your entire heart and soul if you're a fan of a team why would it not be we right that's that's well if I'm talking to other Packer fans I'm not gonna say hey how do you think the Packers will do this year right how do you what are you gonna go I would say how do you think we're gonna do this year we know what we're saying that's a very that's a very fake argument of anger from some in the media yes totally agree totally agree all right so next question for you pertains to the Minnesota Vikings not we in my world but the rest of the division agree or disagree should be worried about the Vikings coming off of thirteen win season so what they did last year will project forward and the rest of the division should be concerned that the Vikings will do it again I would say disagree I don't think they should be worried about their win total last year I think Vikings fans will remember that they started the word fraud I mean everybody said fraud just like the only word that was used with this NCAA women's thing this last week was the word classless like everybody nobody used a different word just like with the Vikings it was fraud it was the one word we all stuck out on that word I don't think the Vikings are bad I don't think they're good they might be closer to good than bad they're not great they're not they were not they should not have won 13 games last year I don't think a lot of Vikings fans disagree with that but also they did you know and so I can I can spout at you all I want about one possession games and lucky and but you won you still won so even if they would have in the playoffs frauded their way to a title they still wouldn't want a title you know it doesn't matter how you do it as long as you win I think that if the NFC North is gonna worry about the Vikings and we talked about the Lions and they may be the other team but it's just that they might be the best of an average lot you know so I think that there's I think that there's ceilings and floors for every team that are pretty vast for the Lions they might have the highest ceiling but they do have a floor and for the Bears I'm a Justin Fields guy I think he's good they I'm still not sure their ceilings over nine wins but their floor is pretty bad the Packers could have a really high ceiling but they could also have a really low floor and I think the Vikings floor is eight wins and their ceiling is ten wins so all they got to do is steal one from these other NFC North teams like they should be the favorite to win the North just like the Saints should be the favorites to win the NFC South everybody else stinks so don't be worried about what the Vikings did in terms of the 13 wins worry that like they're just maybe better than you at this point they've got the best player let me just think real quick yeah Justin Jefferson in the division I mean that's gonna go a long way so I think I think yeah I think that if I were to bet on it as much as I don't like the Vikings I I think they're the they're the safe play and just matters if somebody else is gonna have a better year than them but you like you said Kirk Cousins what does Kirk Cousins do like Aaron Rodgers we know what he does he'll get you 13 wins and lose in the NFC Championship game Kirk Cousins gets you 12 wins and loses in the first round so we know that so I think I've answered the question four different times and I'll pass it over to you okay so here's another one historically we're talking about the Lions like when's the last time you took them seriously when how many times since you've watched football could you not say about the Vikings they'll win between eight and ten games I mean how many seasons have not been that way the entire time you've been paying attention it's been a long time and I think with the Vikings too as a Packer guy every time that we look at the schedule it's an assumed loss when you go to Minnesota and I can't say that for the other two teams at all I mean Detroit at Detroit's an assumed win unless it's Thanksgiving because there have been some weird days like I said at Chicago's definitely assumed win but then yeah the Vikings are always an assumed loss and and I do think that's the real rivalry in the NFC North at this point between those two teams and it's because those have been the better two teams in the last ten years so yeah it's it's eight and ten but that's a I mean that's still a good spot to be you know is it you you would hope for better but when you're in a division that is not at its peak right now although I think trending in the right way Vikings got to worry about that I think I think the Lions are trending up the Bears are trending up if Jordan loves good the Packers will be trending up and the Vikings are just along a baseline so they're not getting worse but I don't know that they're getting better so that that'll be something they have to look at and that's gonna come down to who's the quarterback after Kirk I think so that could go a long way they trade for Lamar Jackson well geez they're super they're a Super Bowl I don't this is why I don't understand why teams don't like at least try they're a Super Bowl contender and maybe a favorite in the NFC but if they just like let Kirk go away and then struggle to find their next guy for the next five seasons like people can say old Packers you don't know what 20 to 30 years is a bad quarterback so you could go right back to that well but the Packers have their guy the the Lions I guess golf still younger than we think the Bears have their guy Vikings who's the next guy we don't know that yet yeah no that's true I just it's remarkable to me about the history of the Vikings where they are always a team that you would say is between eight and ten wins going into every season some of them they've surprised us of course the the farve season though I don't even think coming off of how he played with the Jets that anyone even thought farve was going to take them where he did or the 13 and three case Keenum season nobody saw that coming and certainly helped that they injured Rogers a few plays into the first match up there but oh they did their fans never talk about that all the time and and Packers fans didn't tweet anything at Anthony Barr that was mean they were very polite in the Midwest fashion about that but I think that in for this one the other teams should not be terrified of the Vikings but just assume that they know what they're going to be unless something huge changes if they were to get Lamar Jackson then yes they're the favorite for the division they're probably only behind Philadelphia for favorites for the entire NFC and that's why when people here debate well should I mean large acts and I don't know he's had some injuries or he can't pass or it's like folks I guarantee you that Vegas would immediately put them as the number two team in the NFC instantly if Lamar Jackson came here I think the Vikings could win this division with 10 wins because if the other things don't click into place that need to go right for the Lions or Jordan love isn't that good or we'll talk about the Bears in a second then they could but I think that they do have a very clear ceiling for this next season and this year is really about how they transition from the Kirk era into the next era quarterback so I totally agree with you that at some point they need to try to break that 8 to 10 win mold the Chicago Bears question is pretty simple agree or disagree the Bears are this year's Jaguars the Jaguars had been horrific had the worst coach in football Urban Meyer maybe the worst coach of the last like 20 years and then they got Doug Peterson is not a coaching chains in Chicago but they spent a bunch of money in free agency with every free agent signing everyone said I think they might have overpaid and then those players helped them get to the playoffs and win a playoff game is that going to be the fate of the Chicago Bears in the year 2023 okay I might caveat this one a little bit now that I said okay so I for the for the statement you said I will disagree I think this year's Jaguars are going to be the Jaguars again because I think everyone's gonna doubt them again and I think they're gonna be very good the Bears could be next year's Jaguars I still think you know they're still assembling some pieces and they bring over these wide receivers the I the chase clay pool getting traded and then vanishing is unbelievable and Darnell Mooney having a bad year is unbelievable it's it just it seemed to me like what the Bears should have been doing in the last half of the season was almost like when you go up big and youth sports and you're like all right guys only shoot with your left hand okay because you're gonna the Bears should have been like Justin don't run we know you can run the Bears celebrated their loss to the Dolphins as if it was the biggest win of the season because they saw Justin Fields that was okay anyone that was on the fence he's our guy and I do think he is the guy and I do think he's a good passer I watched him at Ohio State he had prolific offenses there I just think the Bears kind of got into the trap where because everybody else around him was so bad they just relied on it but they weren't gonna win games so I think they missed out on an opportunity to have live practice to try to actually implement some sort of offense that could utilize field strength as a passer and improve some of his weaknesses instead they just let him run 18 times a game so I I like that they made the trade DJ Moore coming over I think that was a nice addition to that trade they still might make more trades to really bolster that team so they've got a lot of holes but they have a they have a path to getting that team better and so if I am a Bears fan I'm looking at I'm being optimistic I'm thinking at least our team seems to have some sort of direction we're not drafting Justin the biggest mistake they made was Nagy and pay should have started Justin Fields every game and for their sake they should have attached themselves to him so that if he struggled or did good they would have said well you can't fire us I mean we don't want another guy to come in here and it seemingly worked out for Nagy maybe not so much Ryan pace but I think I think the Bears are gonna get there I think good good days are ahead for the Bears just might might not be this year I think that they had the exact right process coming out of Nagy and pace which was to tear it all down and don't just try to live in some sort of fantasy where oh we'll just draft this guy or sign this guy and he'll be the difference he'll fix all the problems they're like no this roster is awful and we need to move on from our guys who are worth something get rid of Khalil Mack get something for him get rid of I mean Roquan Smith is a good player but was in line to make way too much money for them so all right move on from him if they had kept him I could have understood it but maybe they didn't feel like he fit with Eberfluse the way that they wanted him to so just get as much as you can for draft capital and cap space and then spend like drunken sailors and try to rebuild this team and then this year give Justin Fields an opportunity to really show us whether it's a yes or a no like is is he a Josh Allen or is he a Vince Young because it's probably not gonna be anything else he's either gonna take a big step and be really good or he's not gonna take a big step throwing the ball and he's just gonna be pretty mediocre the hard thing to figure out is a because they had the sporting cast of so awful like is there more there for him or can he ever figure out the other parts that aren't just throwing the ball because you mentioned Ohio State he is a great thrower of the football but it's this sort of puzzled look like oh I don't know where I'm supposed to throw the football now is that system probably not after two different coaches is it wide receivers definitely could be because if you're afraid to throw it when guys aren't open well okay I get it like you're supposed to throw to the open guys and there weren't any or is it dude is just slow when it comes to processing and get sacked all the time which seems to be the case at the moment and that's what I can't really figure out but they could still even if he passes like mediocre but they have a better defense this year better offensive line in a receiver to throw to there was still like a seven win team if he throws the ball really well they might get to like nine wins I don't think they have enough to be more than that but if he throws the ball pretty well they can be a fairly dangerous team I think the Bears will win some games that they shouldn't I think that they're certainly going to improve I mean they almost couldn't not I would be stunned if they made the playoffs though yeah I feel the same way it would be it would take it would take such a massive jump we have just like it's funny about tanking right it never has to take that long if you do a lot of things right coming out of it for some of these teams where you're back in competition it might be kind of like Arizona after they drafted Kyler Murray they took big steps forward in that first year after being horrific but weren't quite there the last question is agree or disagree the farthest in NFC North team will go in the playoffs is the wild card round and let me just add a little shade to this I still think this is a very very interesting division like an extremely interesting division despite the possibility you might disagree and say that you know somebody's going to go deep in the playoffs but I think it's sort of funny how every team we're kind of like I don't know and yet like how good they can they really be and yet there's so many things with each franchise that are going to be like franchise shaping over this next year this is interesting so they will they whoever wins the NFC North is going to win or win the division get a home game so then I'm trying to think like of the teams so let's say the Eagles win the east I'm really trying to do the math here and show the work Eagles win the east only one team's coming out of the south man so then like the West the Rams gonna be good I don't know what the Niners are doing the Seahawks geez I'm almost gonna say yes NFC stinks it's it's not good I think the best teams are the best three teams have to be in the east right I mean we couldn't we can debate about that or whatever but I think the Eagles are the best the Cowboys are still good they're good okay the Giants I think are good and are and then I think you can be like oh no well the Niners are better than the Giants or I don't trust it with the Niners I this might be more of a bias I say I hate the Vikings oh my god I hate the Niners I can't stand that team nobody gets more like admiration for being mediocre than Kyle Shanahan in this whole league they there I really can't stand the Niners then the San Francisco 49ers are the NFL's Boston Celtics where people always assume they're better than they are and the whole media is in the tank for them for whatever reason everyone loves the Boston Celtics everyone loves the San Francisco 49ers Niners don't even know their quarterbacks gonna be they might not they might even still trade for Rogers now I mean nobody nobody knows what's going on there so I would say yes I'd say the NFC North you get a home game you can win a home game as much as we think this division is bad which it is give me one of these teams the Lions the Lions at home can win a playoff game the Packers at home can win a playoff game the Vikings at home can win a playoff game I don't think it'll be the Bears so I will say to the divisional round and then I might I might cut it there so I'll disagree I have a little more hope for the NFC I think we can I think our division the black and blue the Norris we can get the divisional round and and that'll be it bring back the division names in the NHL for sure yeah the well the 49er thing I think from Minnesota it's probably a different perspective because the Vikings have had so much so many problems with San Francisco well so over the Packers I mean they destroy us right so there's probably some jealousy there especially since the 49ers have kind of won the way that the Vikings wanted to win under Mike Zimmer which was like running the ball having a quarterback just kind of execute you know what they're supposed to do and then just beating the other teams face in with defense that's what Mike Zimmer wanted to do but it only really worked for like one season in 2017 to be a legitimate contender do you do you think by the way the the quarterback situation so fascinating they went to the ownership meetings and told everybody in the world Brock parties our guy I mean are they like waving a flag like someone trade for Trey Lance that are they trying to like do some misdirection but they actually still like Trey Lance do that are they gonna talk Brady out of retirement how often do we get to April 6th and they're like I don't even know who their quarterback is or what they're doing yeah didn't they sign Sam Darnold too is he there yeah I think Trey Lance is their guy I mean I know the Brock pretty story was nice but and it's not like I'm not thinking like sunk cost fallacy where you have to you did this for Trey and you trade it but Trey they drafted Trey Lance because that's what they want in their quarterback in that system and that's what they want and the Niners they you know so I do think there's a level of Kyle Shanahan that's overrated I do have more emotional bias takes towards the Niners than the Vikings I thought for a Packers fan that came on and said I hate this team I don't understand you could be a fan I think I can give you rational takes on the Vikings with the Niners I can't I hate him so much the Niners have a great like their offense is tremendous they can get if you say to the Niners you have four plays you have you have four plays you start at the five you have four plays and you need a hundred yards in four plays and every play has to be at least 18 yards they would do it they do do it better than anybody they've got kiddo they got Deebo they got McCaffrey Brandon Iook even these like to the the Jawan Jennings of the world can can do well so they're they're very good but yeah they got to figure out who their quarterback is so I don't know it is very fascinating weren't there Trey Lance Minnesota rumblings for like a week well he's one of us so that's part of it you know once said anytime there's a Minnesota connection but also there's the Kyle Shanahan coached you know Kirk Cousins and Mike Shanahan drafted Kirk Cousins and you know there was some quote where Shanahan said he thought he was gonna get Kirk Cousins so naturally and then Mike Florio is poured gasoline on that fire by saying there were rumors at the combine that the 49ers and Vikings had some sort of trade talks about Kirk Cousins I have very much tried to like push back on it a little bit I don't see why they would do this but the one thing that does that could talk me into it is you know the Vikings restructuring and not extending Kirk Cousins sort of signifies it's like this is it this is the last year of him not a hundred percent but it could and all the quarterbacks from San Francisco get hurt all the time and so like not that we can ever predict really injuries but if you're Kyle Shanahan like could I acquire the healthiest man who's ever played football Kirk Cousins who literally misses zero games ever and kind of knows how to execute my offense so there is like a little like ish sort of connection like you can squint and make it happen and if you're the Vikings and you're looking for your younger quarterback well Trey Lance is a younger quarterback that maybe they'd be willing to part ways so I see where people try to put that together all the time I've just never been able to make it work to be a great idea especially since they've blown the first two years of Trey Lance's rookie contract that he hasn't played so he still needs like a lot of development you know I was thinking just talking that like if Kirk Cousins so we think of Kirk Cousins a certain way he can win 10 games he won't go any further than the vision around if the Vikings and Niners made that trade people would people would like think of Kirk Cousins in a new way even though the Vikings have weapons they have weapons they have a lot of weapons but if you put Kirk then with McCaffrey and Kittle and Debo I would I would think if Kirk Cousins is on the Niners people would people would rush to say they're gonna win the NFC like trip over themselves to do it which is very interesting but that's again that's the way that the Niners have a spell over everyone no I mean you're right about that that they would and I think with the current state of the NFC there might be some logic to that but that was also the 2018 Viking logic if you just put Kirk on a team that went to the NFC championship then it'll be different he has a remarkable way of making it the same no matter what like the team has gone down the team has gone up around him and it's still been kind of the same deal each year so any any more questions that are on your mind I asked you a bunch of questions you got any questions for me Bart I know we're gonna run this on both of our podcast feeds so does does your audience want any Viking insight here the one thing I would like to know is at what point in the season because this happened a lot here at what point in the season when Zaderia Smith would go down in a game and it looked like he would never walk again at what point in the season did you realize oh he'll be out there three plays later because that really made me mad here yes that did happen several times Adam Thielen was actually more known for that last year than Zaderia Smith but it did happen a few times oh yeah no feeling anymore where did he go Carolina yeah Carolina oh yeah yeah I know that I was gonna say if you have a wide receiver to to pass along but you don't so there is no Packers wide receiver to at the moment I know because they're all ones oh oh yeah of course my mistake Romeo Dobbs right Al Lazard is now a jet as is Tim Boyle I think is also Tim Boyle breaking news big big move today in the NFL Tim Boyle but yeah no the Zadarius thing is weird because Zadarius like what's a polite way to put this ruined the Garrett Bradbury's life like several times and the lives of the left tackles whoever it was for the Vikings so when the Vikings acquired him like okay well this guy's a freaking monster and then he was for like eight games he just took people's heads off and beat their bodies with it and then it disappeared and I think that the injuries you're talking about did catch up with him in the second half of the season because it was a completely different player and I think he was slowed down he tried to tell us a few times like oh well I'm over the knee injury that he had or whatever so now so now they're in this weird position of Zadarius Smith made like a goodbye post on social media and then it was reported that he wants a new contract but no one was really gonna pay him big money if they cut him and it's better if they trade him but they haven't done like tanky things to take part the roster so why would you trade somebody who's good at football and then we just sit here and wait and twiddle our thumb so I don't even know what's gonna happen but it seems like that was the way it was at Green Bay where you kind of never knew what was gonna happen was at Zadarius Smith yeah it was everybody's favorite Packer when he came he did these joint press conferences with Preston Smith which then I saw he was doing some joint stuff right away so he followed the same playbook he's everybody's favorite to start has some big plays and then just kind of decides that he doesn't I don't know that the the last year he was here he played like 14 snaps in game one and then it was just like hurt the whole time but not like real confident about how hurt he was or yeah it's weird it's just it's just he's one of those guys that you know the announcers get fooled at in every time it's a dairy oh my gosh it's a Darius and they play the slow Fox music and then three plays later Zadarius on the tackle you know it's like well yeah of course he was coming back in doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo very very dramatic and sad uh yeah so I don't know I don't know what's gonna happen there that did happen quite a few times I think that the back surgery and the knee issue last year kind of says maybe it's time to just kind of move forward and look for your next edge rusher all right congrats again to the Brewers who may or may not have won but got a game in good stuff again local Milwaukee radio we're ready to break it all down for you and we do appreciate their efforts man they're really killing it everybody is this year during this brewer season just uh what an absolute treat tomorrow's show Paul Emmick Toby Altheiser Ty Windish later in the week to preview the Bucks playoff run and uh some live brewers also coming up to wrap up the Arizona series I'm Bart Winkler have a good day see ya Asante came to TurboTax after graduating from culinary school and landing a job in the hottest kitchen in town my hands are full all day every day I love it Asante as your TurboTax expert I'll make your moves count guaranteeing 100 accurate filing and your maximum refund sound good yes expert switch to Intuit 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