Love playing bad doesn't mean he is bad. Yet. LaFleur stinks though. Raiders beat Packers 17-13

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You need Indeed. Good morning, everybody. My name is Bart Winkler.

It is the Bart Winkler show. The Packers have fallen to two and three, actually getting into the damn shiny YouTube stream a few seconds before the game is over. So still don't know if Josh McDaniels is going to do anything stupid like going for the field goal. The game should have been over. They should have gone for it on fourth down.

Would have probably got it with Josh Jacobs and it would have been over but Packers got another opportunity. A couple of drops there on the final drive. Dubs and Musgrave and and then the pick in the end zone that was intended for Watson. So not the greatest of evenings, not the greatest finish, not the greatest of games either.

There is going to be a lot of different discourse about tonight's game. I would like to focus on the poor coaching. I think the poor coaching is the overall factor. I think Matt Lafleur again is not improving as a coach. For some reason he doesn't trust Jordan Love. Too much JJ Dillon, although he did get finally into the end zone.

So that is good. Joe Berry. The Packers have been around for 100 years.

And 100 years of goodwill and legacy and history and championships. And it all got erased tonight when Joe Berry put Preston Smith on Devante Adams. I mean that image, that shot, everybody clowned on it.

Everybody who's got a Twitter account of any variety of any NFL action was all over it. That was a terrible play. Now to come here tonight and say Joe Berry, Joe Berry, like Joe Berry does stink. Is Joe Berry the reason they lost? No. Did Joe Berry throw three interceptions?

He did not. So I think that that play is going to be what gets shown a lot. And I do think that Joe Berry is not the right guy for this job. But this is not, there's not going to be a lot of, like other than that play, they held Devante in check, decent amount.

Running backs can do whatever they want, especially near the end zone. But this is about Matt Lafleur to me. And it's going to be, it's going to be discussed Jordan Love. I think Jordan Love is going to get a lot of criticism for tonight's game.

And I think that there's some that's deserved. Love on the first two interceptions, I feel he, he knows what the route is. He doesn't know, like he doesn't, I don't think, and this is just some dumb idiot telling you what I see when they show the replays.

You know, I don't break down the all 22. I don't pretend like I, you know, but I've played Madden as much as the next guy. I, I think that Love like knows his route. And the first time he never saw the guy coming. So interception. The second time the guy played a little tighter on Watson than he was planning for. And so I think that, you know, there was another interception. So that's something that Love has to work on. And I think that Jordan Love can work on that.

Now I did throw out there. Like this was his fifth game of the season. Last year. I thought Jordan, these five games that we saw Jordan Love should have, we should have seen these five games already last season when Aaron Rogers has a thumb injury, but at four and eight, he runs to McAfee and says, I'm playing, no one shuts them down. They had no shot at a playoffs.

Somehow they nearly get there. And then Rogers looks like ass against the lions. So one of the things that I tweeted was just that. And the responses to that tweet, a lot of people are very confident that Love sucks. Nathan, he's not that special.

Hey, Nathan, he's not that special combined with play calling. This is what you get. They are not growing pains.

This is BSD gazelle. They are not growing pains. He sucks. Michael says these aren't growing pains. Brian, stop making excuses for your guy. He sucks. Period.

You wet running your mouth after one game went running your mouth, maybe after one game, declaring him the next coming now stand by it. I don't recall really doing that. World of clowns says these aren't growing planes, just a significant lack of talent. As you can see a live shot here of the stadium where we've got a lot of Packer fans that were in attendance tonight. And then there you have it. A lot of Packer fans in attendance. Very sad. We have boots on the ground as always. Good to see the action there on the Dan Cheney YouTube stream. Of course, got some people popping in.

I'll get to you guys in a minute. Kevin says he may just be an average quarterback like the majority of the league has. Welcome to the real world. Paw says this team sucks. Anthony says Jordan Love is more Jimmy G than he is Rogers.

These aren't growing pains. It is who he is. I mean, we are way too early in that. I feel we have seen good of Jordan Love. And tonight we saw some bad. We saw some bad. We saw some things like like the thing I pointed out.

I think he's I think he's got to work on that. This game to me and like some of you. So here's here's where there's what we do now. What is the agenda?

What is what we want to say? Some of you have an anti Jordan Love agenda where you're just like this, isn't it? I don't like it. It's not it. He's not the guy. I'd love to go see what you said about Rogers in 2008.

But that's that's what you say. I have an anti Matt Leflore agenda. Not that I like want him to I just I think he stinks. I think he's bad. He's progressively getting worse. First half calling the timeout late at the end.

Really dumb. Giving the ball to AJ Dillon way too much. It's clear there's something about Jordan Love.

He doesn't trust. That's the way he's coaching. I just want like, why are you going to have this season if this whole season is about trying to find out if Jordan loves a good quarterback?

Let's find out. Let's put him in plus situations. Let's not just run the ball to AJ Dillon all the time. Let's not get a big play to Watson and then go run run shitty pass.

Let's not do that. Tony was at the game. Tony in Texas in Vegas at Allegiance Stadium.

How you doing, Tony? Hey Bart leaving the game. Not the ending we wanted.

What what you're saying right now is absolutely correct. They got to let Jordan Love play a little bit more. I will say this. Christian Watson didn't exactly fight for that ball and that last play. Not a good pass, but at least fight for the ball.

And you know, Joe Berry and the crew defensively did it OK. Did enough to win. But that Matt Leflore office and you've been on the floor. I'm starting to. I'm starting to buy into what you're selling there.

That Leflore office looks like shit. Well, he has no confidence in these guys, I don't think. And I don't. I don't trust his. I don't trust his like ability as a coach in game scheming. What do we say about Matt Leflore? He's been a bitch dude like you don't want to play anybody good for the fucking fourth quarter. You don't play anybody solid Packer fans are not happy with Leflore over here, Bart.

Yeah, good. How was the how's the stadium? I like the stadium. Stadium is nice.

Kind of a cowboy stadium light. It's a nice stadium. It's in a great spot. Good set up. I gotta say this. The Raider presentation for the game is the best I've ever seen. The music is on point. They got the Raider rats.

They bring it in the old timers. Charles Woodson's there. It was a good time.

Do you? How was David Gruber? I saw you met him.

Oh yeah, group White House Gruber up in the 400 seats. I don't know, but he was up there with me. That's funny. He was. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah, I wonder why he was up there, but that was hilarious.

Gruber get I just I ran into Gruber is hilarious and then that's got over 40,000 views. Who who knew David? What are you? What are you doing tonight? Now? It's only now we're walking over to Mandalay Bay right now. Mandalay Bay is a spot to go to, so we're gonna walk over there right now. And go drink our sorrows away, Bart. Alright, well, this was the game I was supposed to be at, so I wish I could have met up with you, but yeah, well, I tell you what, it's a good scene.

It's a good time. The team is garbage. I thought they were better than what they would be. They're gonna probably win about six games and then just go from there. But watching the scheme and the receivers Jordan love did not get a lot of help.

He did not get a lot of help part. It's a radar Raiders right here. Oh, let's go full screen on whatever that is. Can we can we put that on the YouTube part or not? Is that I just have to mark?

No, it is not for children, but yeah, OK, OK, got it. Alright, alright. I don't know Bart, we're not making the playoffs. Sorry I couldn't bring back to win. That's all I got. Alright buddy, let's talk soon. Alright, see you later.

Go Paco. Let's see, I got a couple I wanted to read here. I'll get more comments in a minute. Shane says Jordan love is not an average QB regardless of the interceptions. He does look good. If people can't see it, they are blind.

Lisa says I stick with my assessment. He is fine, but that doesn't mean he is good. No, I don't think we're going to get to a point where like if after five weeks we say, oh, he's really good, then God bless us. But I think that we need Jordan love to have the time to see if he's good. Like I think giving him a season is a good idea. What do we got? But if Matt Leflore is going to call these games where you don't get to see and you keep putting love in these situations, it doesn't help that some of these guys are dropping these passes. And that's just not a tonight thing. You know, you're trying to get Jordan love.

He doesn't have the luxury Devonta Adams. He's got he's got guys that are still breaking it in and making it their own way themselves. So hard to assess right now. Yes, Jordan love has been fine. That's good. That's that's where we're at. I'm okay with that right now. And again, he's got the rest of the season to hopefully get better.

I don't think his coach is doing him any favors. And also, um, I think the Packers like here's another thing I want to get out there. I think the Packers are kind of bad. This is a bad team. It's a bad team. Alright, so I thought if they won this game, they'd be a good bad team. This team as it's constructed very young. They're a bad team. And if they have injuries, they're even worse. I thought they could be a good bad team, maybe nine wins is about a six seven win team right now. And I think that you wanted to beat at least a shitty Raiders team. And now you know you got you go to Denver. If you if you lose the Denver, you might as well just are we going to Denver? They come in here. I don't even know. I don't even know who we play. Red Shed is here. I'll get red shed. And Sam in Sussex returns to the program.

We're in double three who did not play tonight Aaron Jones. Yeah, I want to rip through some of these comments. I'll do that in a minute. I do want your thoughts first, first, first, first, a shout out to our guys at Happy Place hemp for helping make this engine churn. Happy Place hemp.com promo code Bart 25% off every order. This is the CBD gummies THC gummies tinctures balms, whatever you need. They're in Muskego. They have free shipping discreetly.

You can go there if you want across from Maddie's or you can browse their website. Use the promo code Bart 25% off every single order. No matter how many times you don't need to like do fake emails or incognito mode. Just type in Bart, always 25%. We're driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors according to Indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day. Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash blue wire. Just go to indeed.com slash blue wire right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast indeed.com slash blue wire terms and conditions apply.

Need to hire you need indeed red shed. Let's get to you your thoughts first. My biggest takeaway from this game is I am firmly in the position of no longer being alone in thinking that Joe Berry is not the only bad part of this Packers. This Packers team for two years, ever since that playoff game, where they gave up six total points on defense and lost 13 to 10 at home with the Vontae Adams and Aaron Rodgers and Matt LaFleur all there. Since that moment, everybody's been calling for Joe Berry's head.

Everybody's been saying he's got to be the scapegoat go just fire him and all of a sudden it'll all be sunshine and dandelions. And here we have a game tonight on the road against one of the worst defenses in the league. By the way, the Raiders, our defense allows 14 points, an extra three coming courtesy of Matt LaFleur and his offense. And we lose again. And we saw this multiple times last year, both games against the Lions holding up to 20 points or under with terrible defense.

You could even go back to week one last year, where everybody saw Justin Jefferson get a bunch of yards and just ignored the final score of 20 to seven. And it's just repeatedly Joe Berry's getting kicked to the curb as the scapegoat from Matt LaFleur. And what I saw tonight, my biggest takeaway, just firmly watching with Packers nation, experiencing it live through Twitter, like, like only we do now in the modern era, is that I'm not alone in thinking Joe Berry is not the only ugly molar in this teeth, you know, so I, I'm excited. I think Joe Berry is very bad. And again, I like, I don't, I don't want to give a large percentage of the show to Joe Berry.

Because to your point, I think others deserve the criticism though. If Joe, if Preston Smith, if there's not that play where Preston Smith is guarding Devante Adams, Joe Berry doesn't get mentioned a lot tonight. He's not guarding Devante Adams. He's guarding the soft middle zone in a zone line up there. It wasn't what it is.

It wasn't worth calling a timeout at that moment. I think, um, I put a lot of, I put a lot of this on Matt LaFleur and I think this is a big, this is a big moment for the Packers. They have their quarterback possibly of the future.

At least this is the guy they've incubated for three years. And so with McCarthy, like he took Farve and then Rogers and I thought he was, I mean, he proved to be the right guy. I mean, you have to attribute some of what Rogers became to McCarthy. Um, I think you have to, I don't know how much, I never know how much with coaches and quarterbacks.

I never know. It looks like a lot of people are turning on Belicheck with the whole Belicheck Brady thing, but how much, how much is what, how much is the other guy though? And then, um, so you've got like, this is the guy the same way that when Justin Fields went to Chicago and everyone's like, Oh, this is not going to work because the bears ruined people. The Justin Fields somewhere else is flourishing. Look Brock Purdy in other places is dog shit. But in San Francisco, he's like, we all saw it.

Oh shit. This guy is good. We have to start giving him credit.

This guy's good. After the other night, look, look, Fleur is the guy guiding love at least in this first year, probably several. And so a lot of like what love becomes might be tied to the floor, not just how much he's coaching, but what kind of positions are you putting him in?

What are you giving him the opportunity to lead? Do you shoot his confidence away when you hand the ball off to AJ Dylan, 30 fucking thousand times. And these guys, these drop, I mean, a lot of it, like, again, I think the biggest thing with love that I see is he's just got to realize, I think he picks a route. I think he goes through reads. I mean, we've seen that, but when he's ready to throw, he's just like, all right, I trust my guy is going to be there. Not seeing if there's somebody else that he just, he doesn't have that experience yet. And I think that that's only going to come with experience. I want a coach that's going to put him in opportunities.

Sam, I'll come to you to put him in opportunities to, to, to succeed. And I right now, and that's, that's, that's just that part of Leflore. I also think he sucks at game management. He doesn't know what's going on.

He has no confidence in himself. So there's many Leflore problems I have. And you know, what, what he's going to do for love, Sam is another one.

Yeah, I think you got a lot of points. I mean, what we're seeing is that Shanahan style offense that Leflore wants to run where you don't hit, you know, you look off this read, you look off that read, this guy's going to be open. He doesn't trust love to make his own reads. And I mean, we all see it. Leflore is not Shanahan.

He might've learned from him, but he is not that guy. So we're seeing a pretty, uh, strict playbook, strict reads. And that's, I mean, partially, I think to blame to that pick to the linebacker with the visor on, I mean, that was just total linebacker blindness. And it was just like, you're throwing it to that spot, no matter what happens. And the guy was in the right spot.

Um, go ahead. I think that there's a lot to blame on the floor. You know, every time that I see a game start, they show his overall record and we're seeing that wind percentage drop like a fucking lead weight. Yeah.

He's kind of becoming human. I mean, a lot of people forgot that he was the offensive coordinator for what was it? The 30th ranked offense in Tennessee before we signed him to be our head coach. I mean, yeah. And you know, I think they gave AJ Dylan an ultimatum tonight. They said, Hey, you're going to get some yards after contact or else you're buying a flight home to Boston or wherever he grew up because if you don't do anything, you're done here. And it lit a fire under his ass, you know, we see the drops, we see everything. I think that one of the areas that's not getting a lot of blame, sure. Blame Barry, blame the floor, blame the receivers, blah, blah, blah. We need to start talking about this regime of athletic trainers.

Yeah. How many, I don't get it. I mean, the guy with the quaff tear, the spiky hair that we've seen in the background of every LaFleur shots since I can remember, even in the back of McCarthy shots, how long has he been the head trainer and somebody that's smarter than me that knows how to look into it better than me. I need to see how many soft tissue injuries the Packers have had compared to other teams.

Cause it seems way higher. It seems like a lot. And it's also like with Aaron Jones, it's like, they're trying to find, they're going to play. And then all of a sudden, no, no, they're not. And Bob Chiari, the same way I ran through some of those on Monday show. It's like, Oh no, they're not.

I want to, uh, here's a comment I got. This was a winnable game. We lost when Watson got pulled down and yes, like he got pulled down. The guy saved a touchdown by pulling them down like that.

Uh, should have been a red card in soccer as I bring in tack tack would know. Uh, this was, this was, this was a winnable game, but if you look at like what's happened so far this season, they beat the bears. They lose to Atlanta. They came back against the saints somehow in their backup quarterback. They lose to Detroit.

They lose to Vegas. Like, I don't think nobody thought this was going to be a Superbowl team. Um, I still think the seven to 10 wind zone is still there right now. It's trending more, way more towards seven than, uh, it would be 10, but this team, like this team is not that good tack. It's that, I mean, that's as simple as it, this was winnable games that you're losing. And again, we, I think playoffs would have been a nice cherry on top to everything still in play. Sure. Fine. But what we've seen through five games is a, is a mid football team. I got to say four of the five teams we've played are the, are within the 10 worst teams in the league. Yeah.

Chicago, Atlanta, new Orleans. Here's a great tweet. This was from AK chef. He says, Jordan love lights up a team from Illinois and the opener and gets progressively worse in each subsequent game. Feels familiar, but I just can't place it. Obviously Graham Mertz.

I also wanted to get this out there. Um, Packers first half point totals this season, week one, 10 week two, 10 week three, zero week four, three week five tonight, three tack we're averaging 5.2 points of first half. Yep. Last three games or something. We've had three points in the first half. Yeah.

That's crazy. Um, it's not good. I don't love the outlook of the Packers this year.

I'm still going to root for them, but you know, they're not going to be good. Well, I think I would like for me, a lot of, a lot of it was, this is a year transitional, super young. What do we have specifically in Jordan love? And I think the deeper we get into this, like, what do we have in Matt Lafleur? One of the reasons that Joe Berry even still gets brought up is cause that was Lafleur's guy. Lafleur will, Lafleur will never fire this guy. The only way that Joe Berry's done in green Bay is if he, which if he goes to Lafleur himself and says, uh, I'm going to leave. Or if he like FBI investigation for Barry, like the bears DC. Yeah. Well, I hope not that bad, but Joe Berry was not the problem tonight.

No, no, no, no. Again, again, again, we're not like this isn't shit on Joe Berry hour. He's been brought up a few times. The problem was, um, there's Jordan love growing pains and Matt Lafleur stinks.

That that's where I'm at. I just think he flat out stinks. I'm not sure he stinks, but like, I do think there's like a, a quarterbacking timeline. Like Jordan love needs a year under his belt, like a full year of starting. Like let's, let's really evaluate him next year or in the latter half of this year.

I don't know. I just, cause that was bad. It was really bad for Jordan love. He had three picks.

Yeah. It was bad. One wasn't his fault for sure. One was definitely his fault. I think they were all his fault. I think the second one was his fault.

The tips one, the guy. So I, when they showed it again, um, cause Watson was cutting in and the guy, whoever was covering him was really on him. And so I don't know if Watson could have ran a better route or whatever. I just think that love, when he threw the ball, expected Watson in a certain place and didn't expect the defender to be on top of him. So like he's throwing to the routes and then there are accuracy issues there.

There are like, it's like MVS is back on some of these deep throws and some of the shorter throws. I just, I really, and there's nothing we can do about it now and I'll stop talking about it after tonight. Cause it's the five games, but he needed those five games last year when Rogers was hurt and they were eliminated from the playoffs.

Don't give me this 0.1% chance. He broke his thumb, but he still wanted to play because he didn't want Jordan love to play because he didn't want God forbid Jordan love played fine. He should have wanted him to play. And if he got these five weeks, if we saw these five weeks last year from love, it would be self pride clamoring for Rogers, but quarterback, if he was bad, the first five weeks last year, Who knows? I just think that I would have liked, you know, growing pains to have already happened over the three years. Now, I guess Rogers wasn't afforded that luxury either. Remember he went six and 10. I would say I'd have to look back. There's that stat, all these Packers, Farb and Rogers are now love. They all started doing three.

Okay. I feel like Rogers was better in 08 than love is in 23 right now. But to say anything, what's so funny?

No, that's a 1000% true. Yeah, the accuracy was better. But to say like, to just, to watch these five games and when I'm doing five games, when I'm saying like, I'm out on the floor, this is five years of this, that he had Aaron Rogers.

They were on Superbowl's doorstep. And I understand Bakhtiari's knee, like reset on itself or whatever the hell happened. But Leflore has had chances and he's made bad decisions. And I don't see any growth in that department. Let's say like McDaniel's has made two dumb decisions this year on national TV. How is he not getting, how do these coaches not get better?

How did they not get more smart? So I'm using five years on the floor with love. This is five games. And for anyone to say, this is who he is. This is like, that's definitive stuff.

This is who he is. That's how I don't think you can be that definitive after five games after 17 games, if this was week 17, and that's the performance we got, all right, then maybe he's not the guy, but I'm, I'm waiting 12 more games to be as plant my flag definitive as some of you guys are very eager to be that's. So I think coming out of this, I think there should be a lot more criticism. I'm Matt Leflore, and there's going to be a discussion about Jordan Love. And there's going to be a lot of people making definitive claims. Look, I know all about definitive claims.

I wanted to trade Davante Adams after a year or cut them tweets still up there. So I know definitive claims, man. I just, I don't know red shit. I'll throw it back to you.

But that's, that's where I'm at. Yeah, I think with the definitive claims, the one trend that I noticed, and I don't want to get too deep into X's and O's because I know Packer fans don't really do well with that part of the game. But both of his first two picks came against soft zone coverage, which I know is a term that in Packer nation. Oh man, if you want to get people going to start talking soft zone coverage, but for love intermediate throws against the zone seemed to be his weak spot on the one awesome out route to a wicks. I think it was, I think it was like the first like successful intermediate throw of the game, got a big first down, but it was against man coverage.

So I think like watch out for the zone against love seems to be weak. The other one play I wanted to bring up that just kind of blew my mind does not seem like the Packers have had a guy on defense like a max Crosby and forever. But that on the deep ball to Watson that everybody wanted Watson to run after more love wasn't able to step into the throw because of the cover from Crosby. If you saw on the replay, if you weren't just drowning yourself in beers, like I was rewound it, watch the replay again, max Crosby ran all the way around the offensive line to interior offensive lineman, just watched him run by him.

And then he ran to get love. I don't know if anybody else caught that, but he literally ran all the way around the Packers offensive line who weren't blocking anybody else and then still got pressure on love. And I was just, it seemed like that one dude kind of wrecked this offense as well as the floor, but was he heard about? Yeah, he was a wrecking ball tonight and we've heard about how bad their pass rush has been. And we made that pass rush look great.

I mean, just such an unfortunate last name, but Coons, he looked great tonight and I haven't heard his name all season. How are our guys not able to lock down Crosby? I mean, he's their only passenger. All the rumors are the Raiders want to pass rusher and we're still not blocking their only passenger. And he ran all the way around all of them. It was crazy play.

And I think if, if that doesn't happen, if somebody picks them up, I think we're able to hit Watson who was wide open for the 15th time downfield, by the way, just can't get love enough time to hit them. But I got to hop off Bart. Appreciate it as always. Yep. See you. Red shed later.

Good timing because I like to stay for quad box and DK is here. What's up, Mark? What's up?

Where are you from? I'm from Oshkosh. Oh town dude. Oh, I want to go get it. I went to the antique store in Oshkosh today.

We're coming back from Appleton 41. Yup. Yup. I bought a box of pro set 90 pro set cards. And then I got world that gives the sweetest it's it's the sweetest mirror. I have to go get it and show you, but it's just like a mirror. That's it says baseball.

It looks like clip art, but it was three bucks. That's a deal right there. You know, I just watched Matt Lafleur is a presser. He's really proud of the fight. You know, is that what he said?

Yeah. No quitting the team, you know, really proud of how we fought. I thought the defense played well. So that's just another week of, of Joe Berry staying in this, in this organization. He was fine tonight.

Oh, I agree. I don't, I don't, but my biggest issue here is the Raiders have one good player on their team. It's max Crosby. How do you not fucking stop that guy? Attack every other there's there's tech, every other player on the team, but him.

Yeah. Here's some more comments to my Jordan love tweet. The tweet being that he should have played the five games that Rogers played last year.

Dumbest tweet I've read all night, even worse than Matt Schneiderman, which is hard to do. That's from Sam. Ronnie says you got shit on your face from Jordan. Love's butt. Oh man. It's not me, Sam. That's we need a different, different Sam.

Here's some comments on YouTube. Jake MLF firmly on fraud watch Garrett Raiders. First win against the Packers since 18. Jesus.

Not that bad 1987. XOXO 2000 says the floor doesn't trust Jordan love, even though he jumped up and down like a little girl when he drafted him. I don't know like what human on this planet willingly gives AJ Dylan 20 carries in a game. Dude, he played good tonight. He had a good night. He had a touchdown. He had a great game. Three point eight yards to carry three point eight. That's a first down every three touches. I mean, that's not terrible. I mean, he had a good game.

He made runs when it mattered. I think Ben wants to know if I'm reporting from the West coast. Why is there sunlight on my pale neck again? Dan Cheney YouTube stream. There you go.

That is a green screen. Josh says love played bad. Um, I mean, he didn't play good. No, he put bad.

I mean, you got it. He's still young and still working through all this stuff, but you gotta not give love a pass part. He has looked bad the last three games.

I would say that I would have liked there to be more progression. Since what we saw in week one, I still think it's way too definitive to beat way too early to be definitive. I also think like, what were we doing tonight? We were either handing the ball off or chucking it deep like that one plate of wicks that was like the first intermediate throw all night or running that stupid roll out to one side of the field and then quick pivot, try to throw back across the field, the AJ Dylan, and then he bounced it in there.

I don't care who your quarterback is. They're not making that fucking play. That's just a horrible play design. Why are we rolling out to one side trying to throw across our body back to the other side for a negative game here and I'm in my ocean side office. Wow.

Off the coast of Lake Michigan. Nathan says Joe Berryhate is not warranted. He kept Devontae in check. Devontae tonight, four for 45 which I was stunned about. I honestly thought he would have a lot of catches and a lot of targets.

He did not. So, I would like to go back and watch like individually how they did that but if the game plan was, like if the game plan was stop Devontae and you'll be fine, they only allowed 17 points. So, this was a winnable game.

So, yeah, the image of Preston Smith on Devontae is going to be like, but it was other stuff in this game. We lost because of our offense. We had no offense. Yes, we had no offense. Yeah, I mean, our defense played great. I mean, yes, the Raiders suck. But, I mean, we gave up 17 points, we should be able to score that many. It's a bummer that we couldn't. The Packers stink, Bart, like you said, they're not a bad, good team.

What did you say about that? Well, I thought they would be a good, bad team. A good, bad team, yeah. They're not. They're bad. They're not bad. They're bad. They're a bad team. You know, it's a bad night when your best play from an offensive lineman is a blocked field goal. That's when you know you're fucking in trouble.

Yeah, Yash Neijemann is saving Lafourche's ass. Finally did something good on the wrong end. Alright, I got new guys in here, so I'm going to say goodbye to all of you. Alright, see you, Bart.

Yeah, give your closing thoughts out. Where was Dobbs tonight? He was supposed to be our number one or number two. What'd he do, one catch? One catch for four yards. Two targets or three targets? Uh, two targets. I know he dropped that one.

BK, don't be a foreigner. Oh, no. Jordan Love thought that he had, he thought he had Watson deep on the final play, that's what he just said.

Thought he was behind the coverage good enough. So that's good. Good.

Can't wait to hear that again. What are the, what are your thoughts on Jordan Love being a franchise quarterback? Like percentage wise, I think you can't, you can't judge that off of five games. I get it, but that's the point. I think I think 60, no 40.

Yes. I'd say right now we have about a one in three shot of him being the quarterback in five years. You're talking 33%. It's five games. Yeah, I'm at 40%. So you're at slightly less.

I'll go down to 25%. Part of it is LeFlur though. I think he is, the play calling is just atrocious. I think he's not really setting him up to be the best quarterback that he can be. I think it's terrible.

Honestly, I've never seen, I've never seen a guy kill a drive the way that Matt LeFlur will kill a drive with this play calling. I'd rather be a backup quarterback than a starting quarterback. Oh yeah. All right. Later boys.

The Diamondbacks might be the Dodgers tonight. That'll piss me off actually more. Okay. Shuffle the deck. Craig is back. Q is back. Cone is back. Cone, you start. What?

Me start? Yeah. I want your takes. Okay. First, have you been hearing my takes? I have. Yeah. I've been listening.

Are they, are they agreeable? I think Jordan, you can say it's fair to say that Jordan Love played bad without saying that he is bad. He played terrible tonight. He was bad. Uh, yeah, he wasn't that good. And Matt LeFlur, I called him to Grant's show earlier today and said, this game is going to be out about which coach fucks up less. Cause they both are kind of dweebs and I still think McDaniel's fucked up more than the floor and they still lost. So Matt LeFlur, inexcusable.

I agree with a red shed. I thought he had some good takes on Joe Berry overall from a high level. Um, Bart, I think you're still trying to figure out who to blame in this season. You know, last year you could cover everything over Aaron Rogers and now it's, it seems like it's all shifted to the floor. Oh, I think we'll floor sucks. So do you give Rogers a pass for changing the play calls last year then? Fuck, I guess so. I would call it. If my coach told me to run AJ Dylan 20 times, you get damn right.

I'm changing the fucking place. I really didn't think AJ Dylan played that bad tonight. I thought it was, he was effective. He didn't play, he didn't play that bad, but that's not how you're going to beat the Raiders. He was getting them first downs and I think it was way more Jordan Love than AJ Dylan. So I'm like, I look, if Jordan Love plays like shit, the rest of 2023, I will acknowledge it and talk about it. And you know, I, I'm not, I won't, I won't, I won't like cover it.

I just, I don't think in any way, shape or form, we can have these takes that are so solid about what like people telling me, look, if you want to say like Jordan Love is sucks so far or Jordan Love has gotten worse each week, or I haven't seen what I wanted to in Jordan Love. If you want to tell me those kinds of things, I think that that's okay for you to say, if you want to tell me that's who he is, that is, that's what the fuck? No.

Yeah. I agree with that's who he is. I agree about who he is. I agree with what you're saying, but I still think it's fair to evaluate love on a game by game basis.

And tonight he sucked. And I think that's, you can, that's fair to say without dissing him as a franchise quarterback or as the future. Yeah, no, I'm with you. Okay. Well, I think we're in somewhat of an agreement then like one of the things that I think Paul will ask next time I talk to him, he keeps asking like, would you give Jordan Love the big contract right now?

And I think like what the PR what's going to happen here, what I need to see is I would be more prone. Like if Jordan Love ends up not being the guy, but he's in the middle, like, you know, Daniel Jones, I think is the good benchmark because he did get a lot of money. The giants paid Daniel Jones because they didn't want to try again.

They had a guy who took them to the playoffs. So well, let's just pay him. If he's Daniel Jones, then I'll hit the reset button. You need a franchise quarterback to win. And if he's not a franchise quarterback, then I'll hit the reset button, but I'm not going to make that determination until I have to, or until the years up. So how close are you to that reset button right now? I I'm not even, it's not even, I'm not even in the room.

I'm not opening the door until week 17. Do you know the codes though? Do you know the nuclear codes? Um, Craig, you got to take it away. Craig, I don't know. Okay.

First of all, I want to start with this. Here's a little history lesson. Cause I am the oldest man here. Probably none of you guys were probably the early or the 88 is probably the latest or the earliest one of you guys have been born. 1988.

Am I right? Anybody born earlier than 1988 here? Except I'm about to be 40.

I'm 52. So anyways, just watching the Monday night game today and all of a sudden they show so-and-so lighting the Al Davis. Was that, did you leave me a voicemail the other day about the badgers? That was you? Yeah.

Okay. I didn't get your name on that at first. So it was the eternal flame. And I started laughing because Al Davis sued the NFL back in like the 70 or in the eighties and a kid, he went up against Roselle and he was trying to get out of Oakland and there was this whole thing.

And he, he won the case, but they gave him $1 and he and Roselle hated each other. And I just laughed at it cause I figured that was the last big finger that Al Davis did to the NFL that every time any, you know, anybody walks in, they get to see that flame and they all hated him anyways. Secondly, Bart, I can't agree with you more.

I mean, we haven't even seen the office with all of this compliments of everybody. Yeah. We got Aaron Jones here. This was the first game or the second game that you have Watson back. He's only had, he's only a Jones for one game.

And then you look at everything. You got Brock Purdy, who is coming along in this league with Deebo Samuel, George Kittle, Christian McCaffrey, even guys that they don't like really care are Brandon. I might be their best receiver.

He might be Aaron Deebo. And then like Joanne Jennings is good and loves throw into three different tight ends. One no one knew was even like around the roster, but like what the fuck? But you use Purdy, which is a perfect example. Cause Purdy turns around and he's got guys around who's played, who played some games.

Like I rock with Brock, by the way, he's good. He looked at his wide receiver court and he's like, well, I remember you and the rest of the seven of the other guys I've never seen before. And then he walks into the tight end room and he's like, well, there's the Gore over there looking paint off the walls and then everybody else is brand new. And so it's like, just let's, let's just see what happens. I totally agree with you that I see that the floor is way over his head, but I'm, I'm not these people that you're saying on Twitter is like, Oh, he's already had a chance to shy. Let's just relax. Let's pump the brakes a little bit. I think the phrase that's who he is. That's what's grinding my gears. That's that phrase is really, you know what?

Week 17, we come out and everybody's healthy after the break and we play and he still looks like that. I I'm right with you. I don't know if he's the right guy, but Jesus, give him a break. Uh, Q, I will be able to hear you. So give your, I have to show you guys this fucking mirror. It's amazing.

So I just had to go get it, but I'll hear you. So start talking. So I feel like going into tonight's game, I felt like the Packers needed to go two and one versus like the Raiders, the Broncos, and then the Vikings. Like we needed to win two of those three games for us to not try and tank because the, the rest of the season, like our schedule just gets more and more difficult. So I'm pretty disheartened today that we couldn't beat the Raiders after like a quasi bi week. Like we had 10 days off between games. How, how could we not fix this offense?

First time the floor's ever lost before a buy. And I honestly, I wholeheartedly blame Matt Leflore. Like he had a chance with the hall of fame quarterback injured or not last year. Like, and we all gave him a free pass thinking that Rogers was just not letting him run his offense. After a quarter of the season, we've seen the Leflore offense and it sucks. And he just sits there and pouts on the sidelines.

And I have no confidence in him as a leader of the team or of this offense. I'm exactly like, you know how in high school there's teachers that like you listen to, and then there's teachers that like half the class is talking and the teacher doesn't do anything to stop it. You just, they've lost you on day one.

He's like, he's worse. Like I've respected substitute teachers more than it's, it's crazy. It's crazy. Look at this. Look at this fucking thing. The mirror. Where'd you get that?

Oshkosh antiques. That's pretty cool. It is cool. It's three bucks. Just don't break it.

That'll be seven years. Here you guys are. Here's my basement.

That was every kid's dream in the seventies at every County fair in Wisconsin at the dark balloon pop three bucks to get that. Maybe Jordan love needs to try the high leg kick on his throws down field over 40 yards. I mean, honestly I messaged it earlier, but why does 40 yards with this offense feel like 120 yards? Like when we get across the 50 yard line, it feels like I'm praying that we get another 30 yards so that we, we have a chance at a field goal. Like it, I just have no, I've lost all confidence in this offense and I, I don't blame Jordan love. I think it is simply play calling because we've seen it the last couple of years with the before offense, just stalling out and losing any sense of direction or purposes as a team. Like who are we?

Like is, is AJ Dylan the answer? I know Aaron Jones has been out since the first game, but like, is that all we are? Like we come out and we run the ball fucking five times in a row. Sorry for swearing, but this is, I expected more out of this team today. And the, in my opinion, the defense stepped up.

The defense had some really big stops on third down that kept us in this game when it could have easily been like a 20 or 30 point blow out if they didn't have those big stops. So end of rant, just disappointed Packer fan. And if we can't beat the Broncos, I hope they just got the staff. Like I don't care who they promote, but I I'm just done with this coaching staff. They can't beat the Broncos after Robert solid told Sean Payton to stay humble.

They can't, they can not gut this team middle of this year. You need to, you need to play it out with Jordan love. You need to see what you have. I'm even against tanking.

Cause you, you gotta stay competitive. You gotta see what he can do with this team. You gotta see what fight they got. Cause we've got a vision on love somewhat soon. I, I guess I'm like, I'm half of there with you, but for me personally, like I want to see love with not Matt before as an anchor. Like he just feels like he's, he's potentially holding Jordan love back. So like, and I don't know if there's another coach on the right away at the beginning of the season, the first, the first drive I was already bitching about the floor holding a love back. And people were like, ah, you know, and then, uh, then I said, the floor sucks.

And then they came back against the saints somehow. And then I had to eat fucking Crow, which is the worst phrase in the world outside of we got punched in the mouth. Like there's gotta be, there's gotta be a better way to say you got beat. There's, we got punched in the fucking mouth. Is Jordan love even good enough?

Has he shown enough to us that he can be let go that like Matt Leflore can let him cook? I don't think so. I don't think Matt was always handcuffing them. I think they're together. Yeah.

It's kind of like they're, yeah, literally they're a package deal. And like, like right now we're it, I guess this is the pain that every franchise has felt. Is it the quarterback? Is it the coach? We don't know.

Who's who's worse. Now we're I think what's that? I think we're starting to sound like bears fans. I guess he says love has started five fucking games guys.

Relax. Uh, no, I think, I think that, I mean, just to reiterate what I've been saying, like, um, I think unless that is to the comments that might be to the, to the comments on YouTube, which I've noticed turns into a real shit show. I don't think who outrageous on love in either direction. Well, it's just like the one thing I tweet about how I wish Rogers went to play those last five games. You know what part you need to tell those people to be a man and call them to the show.

They fucking should. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of calling into the show, I will be on CBS sports radio Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday nights this week. What's the occasion? Well, uh, Matt Gelb is doing afternoons now because left to serious.

Oh, the morning. What Craig plays is commercial bumps. I did hear that and I heard a commercial. He did.

I was like, wait, I thought he left. Um, and so they're doing fill in rotation the rest of the year. I think so. I'll, I'll be on like two, three nights a week. You're going to try out. You got to try out buddy. Open roster fit. It's spring pitchers and catchers reporting.

This is it. I can't work. I can't work nights though, guys.

Why not? I'm going to miss. I miss my kid grow up. Then you just homeschool during the day. Good day. Homeschool.

Yeah. Teacher at home. Homeschool. You'd be a great teacher.

I've learned so much from you. Spoken, spoken from people who don't have kids, dude. Craig, I have a kid and I was born before 1988.

Stop making assumptions, bro. Well, just homeschooling and code. I got 12 kids. I got a four year old. You are a four year old cones building an arc.

It's filling it two by two. So bring the kid to the show. And Nick says, bring the kid to the station. Fuck it.

Like that. He can hang out on the couch. Frame slapped on a couple of times, but then he's got soccer.

I'm going to get him in basketball. We, the first half of the game tonight, when we were at this antique store, we bought some puzzles. We got these Avenger puzzles. They were, they were so fucking hard. And I started bitching to him like, dude, I don't want to do these anymore.

I want to watch this Packer game. He's four. He goes, they're not hard for me.

He can homeschool you. Yeah. All right.

Then he goes, where's the fucking piece we need. See you guys. Thank you. Who's leaving?

I think I'm going to jump off too. Oh, did I want to talk to you about anything else? Yeah. Fire away badgers.

We want to do badger. No, I am going to get mad if the Diamondbacks win. I'm who cares? I won't be playoffs are dumb. Yeah. Where are you on the playoff discussion?

Which is raging fire. I think you got to go back to one game wildcard and then either, you know, five games first series seven either way doesn't matter. You can't do three, five, seven.

Imagine if they did that in hockey or baseball or NBA. Would you would you do five seven seven with the with how many teams get in? Or is that too long? I really think you got to go seven. I think you gotta go four teams and do seven. Really? Well, I think I don't think that MLB would go for reduced playoffs though.

At this point was more games seven. I don't know. Can't put the two back in there.

The toothpaste back in the tube. I'm going to be the old man who shakes his fist and tells you to get the fuck off my lawn. They should just take, it should just be the division winners. If you want to just go back to two, I'm with that.

I'd rather do that than what we got now. Because I, because I don't like, cause it was a, it used to be a pennant race. Craig, it used to be a pennant race. It's 162 games. And that was one of the reasons why they played 162 games. And you know what really did Milwaukee deserve to be in it. They backed their way into it again this year. And I'm here, I watched the fucking, I, I watched Arizona, Arizona, one 84 games. I watched Arizona do everything they fucking could do that last week and not to get to this position. So you tell me like, well, now they're getting hot. So it's gonna be great.

And I'm going to sit here and watch him like the Braves from a couple of years ago. And then we had a better seed than Philly, but we got to play the red hot snakes and they play the shitty fucking Marlin thing that they proposed a couple of years ago where the, the higher seeds get to draft who they can play. Oh, that's even the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

Even dumb asking for, I mean, it really wasn't that bad. Like I understand like college football back in the day, you know, when some writer was sitting there smoking a cigar saying, Oh, Notre Dame, they got to win whatever. Who cares? They beat Navy again. Woo-hoo, national champs, but 162 games.

That's what it was for. I saw a lot of teams back in the day be really, really good. I saw a few burger teams back in my day that were really pretty good. That couldn't quite make it over the hump and didn't get in 92 team won 92 games. Yeah.

Thanks for playing. Hey, the 89 Packers won 10 games. They didn't get in the playoffs.

People forget Linde and Fonta was coach of the year. No, but the 89 team got me fired from my job. Why? Because it was the, there's they're playing the bears and it was the Mckalski game where he was like four yards over the line of scrimmage, but they didn't see it or whatever. And I was at the grocery store and we're, me and the guy I was working with were in the back and we were listening to it and they scored a touchdown and we jumped up and I busted a hole. Like I knocked over a whole pallet of beer and they fired you. Yeah. Because I was fucking they, they played it on us kind of basically just fucking around, listening to the game rather than doing our jobs, which we were, but it was a Sunday afternoon.

Nobody's at the grocery store. So this is why Cohen, this is why when people join your show, you, you explore and you talk cause we just got this bonkers 89 packer story out of Craig. Hey, do you want to hear my, you want to hear my 97 Superbowl story real quick? No, I was good with the one. No, no, no. Yeah. Okay.

What I'm going to go and see you. I was going to culinary school in San Francisco and this was in 96. So California 96 legalized bear want to use for medicinal yeast, whatever it was. Anyways, the Packers are in the Superbowl. They're playing the Patriots.

I have a couple of people in my class ever from new England, go to their house. They're having a Superbowl party. I'm sitting there. I'm having, I'm getting drunk over in Wisconsin.

Start throwing back some beers. There's cookies next to me. I start pounding these cookies and my buddy looks at me. He's like, how many of those have you had? Like, I don't know, six, seven.

I'm a big guy. You can see that on the TV and he's like, yeah, you know, those are made with pop butter. They're like equivalent smoking like four joints a piece. I had six cookies. I don't remember. The last thing I remember is that the, the younger Belushi, not John, but Jim pollution singing the fucking blues bar other song. And that was it. Next thing I know I was screaming, going over the Bay bridge cause I didn't want to have it collapse on me and become a, I just freaked.

It was nuts. That's why I stick to one gummy from happy place hemp and not eat him like fucking see, I should be the, you should be, I should be the cautionary cautionary tale. And then you can be like, don't listen to that. You did it anyways, but good talking with you. I'm going to, I'm going to get off now. All right. I got to dig through some of these YouTube comments. You guys are, you guys are on one.

I think, yeah. Aaron Jones, let me just refresh everything. Aaron Jones magically doesn't play. This is getting annoying.

Matt Lafleur. I just, I'm, this is a take I'm committed to. I don't think he's a good coach.

We're not going to win a super bowl with them. I have determined that after four and a half years, could I be wrong? Fine.

Sure. But I feel like I've got enough of a sample size to say that some of you that are talking about Jordan love in a certain way, I don't feel like you have enough of a sample size to say that. And maybe even one year is not enough. But what, what you would like is you would like to see go into this bi-week and have a better Jordan love game.

You know, figure out what you think his strengths are. Play to that. Don't, don't, don't, don't.

I don't know. Like last week we wanted to run the football and then this week we ran the football, but we want to run the football with Aaron Jones is what, is what we want. I don't think we want a lot of this. Very interesting game. Very interesting week. Sucks that they got a loss, did not need to. Again, in a micro setting, they could have won this game.

That, that horse collar thing. If this Packers team was good, if this Packers team was good, that would be the focal point because we'd say cost us a win. We were on the way to the Superbowl.

That would be the focal point when they ripped down Watson, but they're not that good. And so we're trying to figure out is, is Jordan love the coach or is Jordan love the quarterback. But I think as much as we're trying to figure that out, I think we also need to have that evaluation process on Matt Lafleur. I don't think he's the right guy. So now you blame coaching, but last year you blame Rogers. Uh, yeah. I look, I'm, I'm, I'm willing to go back and nitpick everything that you guys like don't like about Jordan love after five games.

I'll do that after 17 games. I think Cohen was right. It's okay to say like it tonight. He was not that good tonight. He made mistakes.

I told you what I thought the mistakes were. I think he gets a little too confident in the route before looking like, like who's around. Maybe he learned that from Rogers, you know, to trust the guys, whatever. I don't know, but it is a part of his game. He can improve, uh, accuracy stuff. Yeah.

I would, you know, it would be nice if one of those balls was caught besides the one that was caught. Chris says Lafleur is not the guy. We know this Rogers made this guy look great. I like this comment from Bucky. Oh, this is the kind of year where unsuspecting teams will have their best games against us. Yeah. Yeah. So watch out for the fucking Denver Broncos. Oh shit. I just like, so some people were asking if this is a must win.

And when people ask that people freak out too much. The Bronco game's a must win. It's um, you cannot lose to, you can't fucking lose the Denver dude.

You cannot. All right. We will continue to wrap up the Brewers this week. Uh, thanks to Brett and Tosa.

I thought he was great today. Um, Paul and Grant on an episode this week. So the standard fair here on the Bart Winkler show. Thanks for being with us tonight.

Whether it was streaming on Facebook, if you found me on Twitter or here on YouTube, uh, like anybody would ask, like, subscribe, you know, retweet, whatever you can do. Uh, no shakeaways tonight. Yeah. No shakeaways. I think Tim is asleep and that's fine. We'll, we'll get some, I'll catch up with Tim this week.

We'll get some shakeaways. All right. Thanks guys. Thanks for spending the night with us. And uh, I got a 6 35 AM curtain call wake up call for WISN channel 12 news. Maybe I'll use this background. We'll see. All right.

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