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Bye. Good morning, everybody. Hi y'all, my name's Bort Winkler. And I'm ready to talk some sports with you here today. Grant Bills and Paul Immig.
Mm-hmm. I did the post-game show with the Packers. It was great. Not with the Packers. They don't like me.
About But so then I went on channel 12 again. on Tuesday morning. And It's a good way for me to take everything that I've talked about for an hour. and refine it. and really deliver my main points.
And so my main point's essentially what I said. Um And for a little behind the scenes. I write the questions they ask me. Oh. Yeah.
Wow. What is journalism in twenty twenty three? No kidding. They don't know sports? They're not much a sports person.
Don't they have an entire sports department? Yeah, but sports people don't work before noon. Uh And Dario's out in Vegas. And Drew Olsen and his rooster haircutter out in Vegas. Yeah.
What is going on? Do you think, like, you could just have you ever said so far? You know, it's a great and timely question. I'm glad you asked. Great, great, great question.
Great question.
So I had them ask me, like, Who do you blame? And I said, look, a lot of us want to blame Joe Barry after every single loss. It wasn't his problem. Um the offense was bad. Talked about Jordan Love.
I compared stats, you know, Roger's stats to Love's stats. But I flat out said. This team is bad. It's a bad team. Packers are bad.
Packers right now are a bad team. I said they've got a bye week. And, you know, there's going to be growing pains. We expected that. There's going to be ups and downs.
They go to Denver and win.
Okay, you're you're 500. I mean, whatever. You lose to Denver. Oh And I said something, I mean, I almost said, like, don't have me on anymore. There's no point, I don't care if Packers are king.
You lose to Denver, it's going to be. A problem, but I don't know. I just I'm really the thing that upset me the most. About And I was more upset. Do they play again today?
I don't even know when they play next, but I was more upset that the Diamondbacks beat the Dodgers on Monday than I was that the Packers lost. I was sad that the Braves came back and won. I'm kind of. Oh, no, I'm Team Braves. Oh, puke.
Why? Because I'm anti-Phillies. Why? Yeah, why? Because I want I mean, you don't need to have a good answer.
It's sports. You can cheer for who you want. I want. I don't want the four. I want the teams that are good in the regular season to win in the playoffs.
I see. Yeah, I know you're reserving a. A segment. for this topic, but Well, we can dabble if you want to dabble. Dab, dab, dab.
Little dabble, do you? Clearly, though there will always be playoffs. And I want you to get back to your thing that you said on the. on the T V show, but I just said, why are the you play 162 and you're done in 30 hours? 28 hours, whatever it is.
It's not, I mean, the why the You're going to have a postseason because it's big money, it's big T V ratings, but I don't know. This is the biggest issue that I have with base. This isn't like, by the way, this isn't like Sour Grapes Brewers fan. This is just like, no. It's not, it makes no sense.
Like, if you were to start over, if you were to start the sport from scratch, you would never land here. You would never, never land on playing 162 and then a two out of three. Like you was would never you would never land here if you started a new sport. The whole We've been trained. And told.
that the best team wins. And sometimes there are upsets. And that's a part of it. But We've also been told like When you do very well, you get advantages. Uh the system is designed The system is designed to give a team like the Phillies.
And the Diamondbacks. The advantage. It's designed where. If you win in that wildcard round, you get the advantage.
Now, you don't want to play in that wild cut around because you could lose. But the Philly the whoever whoever ends up winning that round. has more of an advantage. Than the team. And I know they go on the road, but.
They're playing. These teams have a week off. Yeah. You don't like Philly was able to build up. They're like, oh, what's it matter?
It's a week off, you know? Vibes, man. Philly's able to get vibes. Who's the team that's playing fucking Creed in their clubhouse? Is that Arizona?
Uh the Rangers. Yeah, Rangers. Fuck those vibe you get chance to make vibes. Yeah. Yeah, and the Orioles just sitting around You know, doing practices, being like, Rangers are f playing fucking Creed.
No, they're getting vibes. Anyway, Grant, if you had a... Chime in on that. I'll get back to what I said on the T V News No, I know. I thought you guys covered it well.
I agree with most of those things. And if you're Bart, if your marathon tweet. Has not yet like It needs to be amplified because I thought that was a really good way to look at it with the catching up and the sprint. And then, yeah, it's it's you would, yeah, dumb. It's dumb.
It's a dumb system, dumb playoff system. All right. I'll say the tweet for those who. didn't see it which is a lot of people it looks like Yeah. The MLB season is a marathon.
A marathon where everyone stops and plays.
So basically, when the first guy hits the 25-mile mark, marathons, as you know. Or 26.2. If you don't know, just drive around for a few minutes.
Someone will have a bumper sticker. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday driving um InfoWars Someone had an InfoWars bumper sticker on their Vehicle. Maybe I'll make bumper stickers. Maybe I'll go back in time and do things that radio stations did in the 70s. Where I'll like drive around town, and if I see you have a Bart Winkler Show bumper sticker, I'll like knock on your door and give you $50 in gas money.
You need to do what my local country morning show did growing up. And that's every morning, one guy would go out in the The B cruiser, it was B95, and just have donuts. It's like, oh, today we're at the North Crossing in Eau Claire. Come out. Oh, we're in Chippewa Fall.
It was electric when that happened. We d We did think at K107 where Uh we had our intern drive the vehicle. to a gas station. And if you could find them and be the first one. you get twenty five dollars and then Um What ended up happening was.
Somebody would park across the street from our parking lot, just follow the guy. Listen to the radio and then As soon as I said, all right, where is he today? You know, somebody was already. Anyway, uh marathon. Man, I'm getting I'm branching out like a timeline and low key.
The runners in fifth and twelfth. Who cares? Just go fucking read it. Type Wings Things Marathon. You'll find it.
I wanted to tell the news people what I was telling people on. Monday is that It is just too soon. To say The phrase, that's who he is, was bothering me about Jordan Love. Yeah. Like I said, like, okay, guys, it's five games.
There's been good. I was just looking at a tweet. I think Bukowski had it, where, like, in the first half. Love is one of the worst ranked quarterbacks in the league. And then in the second half of games.
He's one of the better ones. On the first couple of games, he was one of the best-ranked quarterbacks with whatever. you know, Bukowski math they were using. Uh and then in the like the last couple games he sucked. And then and the thing that bothers me is these are games that should have happened last year.
I still think Rogers should have written it down. But then people comment on that, like. This is who he is. I just think it's way too soon for that. Yep.
I don't think we know like. There's been as many signs of good as there have been bad. Right.
So that's where I'm at. I just. Man, and what what does it do? What does it do? Like, what does it As a fan, if you were gonna be very definitive and say, Nope, love sucks.
What does it do? He's still your quarterback for another 12 games minimum. I am just annoyed by the fans that have to be. that person first. Where it's like if the Bucs get bounced from the playoffs, it's like, I told you three months ago.
It's like, okay, so you were. You were pissed off and angry before any of us, I guess. Like, congrats. I don't know.
Some people just have to. That's the culture we live in, Bart. It's about being first. Everything, you got to be first to everything. People always want to call things first.
Well, I do get mad because I do feel like I say things like I. I feel like I say things a lot first, and I'm right about them. Like, I feel people are coming around that LaFleur's dog shit. Are we going to talk about LeFleur at some point this morning, or at least we definitely can. And I would say, like, in.
I would love to go through it. I have not yet done this. I don't know if you guys have. thought about this exercise. If you were to look rank path catchers.
In the NFL, like teams, right? Like a collection of pass catchers per team, wide receivers, tight ends, running backs, whatever. And then you were to, for the Packers, you were to subtract Aaron Jones for. Is it four out of five games? Has he missed four out of five now?
You subtract Christian Watson for like three and a half out of five. And your top targets are Rookies? Like Jaden Reed and second year Dobbs and Musgrave. Like, I think it was really highlighted in the fourth quarter of last night's game as the Packers are trying to make a comeback. Of Monday Night's game, excuse me.
Pexer trying to make a comeback. And Dobbs drop. Musgrave, drop. And yes, then Jordan Love. Was late to throw and then underthrew Christian Watson, even though Watson should have made a much better effort on the ball.
But that play isn't the play. And you're not in that situation if Dobbs and Musgrave don't drop. Obviously, extremely catchable balls.
So I do think. And we'll get into more about love, but. There's There needs to be an acknowledgement of what he's working with compared to what. the other 31 teams are working with. And I don't think it's the worst.
Group of pass catchers in the league, but without Aaron Jones for four out of five, without Christian Watson for three and a half out of five. It's Bottom five. Right? Doesn't it if it seems that way, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it?
I mean, just gut check, it would seem like I brought up Purdy. you know, the guys that he is throwing to as he gets acclimated into the league. compared to And Jordan Love doesn't like Rogers, when Rogers took over. The change was Favre Rogers. It was still the same team.
Right.
Jordan Love doesn't, I mean, he doesn't even have. Alan Lazard. He doesn't even have Randall Cobb. He certainly doesn't have Devontae Adams. Yeah.
Easy. Mm-hmm. All right. You're nearing the precious 13-minute mark. You want to take a.
Should I jump into one or how do you want to go? I will insert a blue wire ad here.
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And we are back. Yeah. You are a pros pro. Apparently, there's an ad that plays for Bears Ticketmaster.
Well Did you guys ever hear that? I do not. I don't think so. Because Matt in the Falls always gets and he always texts me. He's like, What the fuck?
Yeah, I could see him getting really, really pissed. And it's Ty Windish reading it, and he gets even more pissed.
Well Ty Windish has a Chicago Bears read.
Well, because he Ty works with Blue Wire. Oh, okay. And so he just doesn't read. And I think it's like sometimes, sometimes, depending on where you got your phone. Phones think you're in Chicago.
Yeah. Or like in that DMA. Interesting.
So anyway.
Well, we kind of got into it. But We're gonna do our Our temperature check. We've all said a lot of things about Jordan Love already, so we can go as lengthy or as minimal as you want, but. Temperature check after five games. Um The reason I set the stage, let me just set the stage for a second and just say like.
The New York Giants were in this situation this past offseason. They yes, they got blown out in the divisional round, I think it was, but they had just had a series of successful Daniel Jones. It was a successful Daniel Jones season for the most part. And it was decision time. Is Daniel Jones the guy?
Capital T and the capital G and guy, or are we letting him walk to another team and potentially have this 26-year-old quarterback flourish? or fail. on another team. And clearly Brian Dable right now would. Redo that.
Not that he had the full decision. He's not the GM, but he would walk in the GM's office, I'm sure, and say, Please do not commit 40 million of our cap each year to this guy. All right, it's decision time. Cool. Jordan Love is either with you.
And you're going to re-sign him for the Daniel Jones contract for 160 or. He's gonna walk and the unknown is the unknown. You between these two choices again because We might be in the same place in 12 weeks. Maybe the Packers finished five and twelve or seven and ten or I don't know. But depending on where you're at with love, let's say you got to make the decision now.
You're giving him the guy, Daniel Jones, money, or you're. Walk letting him walk and exploring into unknown Quarterback waters. You would Begrudgingly, but you would. Right now, give him that Daniel Jones contract. Or Right this minute, I can't wait till the end of the year.
I have to decide right now. This is the end of the year, it's the offseason. And he's then, this is it? This is what he looks like? This is it.
This is your sample size. This is what you get. Let me know.
Well, then I'm not extending him. And he's but he he might he will walk. True. To to wh to whom And and what that's the thing, who's who's jumping to give him this money, hypothetically right now? you know Who was dumping to give Daniel Jones that money?
So, here's where I here's why I say no one because no, the giant, so the giant, and Daniel Jones is. A great comparison for this. Yep. The Giants made the playoffs last year. Yep.
And because the Packers choked in London. They tricked the Giants into thinking they had a good coach, which they don't. Dable sucks. Everyone was so in on Dable last year. Like, mentioned within top five, six coaches.
Oh, well, Dable. Yes, you are correct. awful. Um McDaniels sucks too. What was he doing?
Why didn't he just go for it?
Well, this is not breaking news that Josh McDaniels is terrible, though. And that's what makes this all the more embarrassing. But go ahead. Yeah. But the Giants were like, all right.
We made the playoffs. We got a coach. We feel like we're on the up. And this is what this is where. They're like, do we?
Just pay the quarterback that got, I mean, he got us to the playoffs. Daniel Jones is like the same kind of guy where it's like, you watch Daniel Jones, and there's a lot of shit. But there is a lot, there is good in there. I still believe there is good. And so the Giants, you're not basically making the decision on the guy, you're making the decision on.
Do we just go with what we've got? Or, because if they don't pay him, who's their quarterback? Tyrod Taylor? Like, then then what do you do?
So they get in this position where You have to pay. because there's no alternative. The Packers are not going to be in that position. They're not going to need to hang on to Jordan Love. This is a team that stinks.
They're they're young. They have a lot of work they need to do. I don't think they have a coach that's going to win them in the Super Bowl. I think you can easily, like if the Packers are 7-10 this year or something. I don't even like you could You could theoretically.
A different organization. Packers won't do it, but you could say, you know what? This just didn't work. Let's clean it all. I think Goody would be spared.
I don't know.
Yeah, he would. You got to remember, Matt LaFleur, guys. They interviewed there was nine candidates they had, I believe. Yeah, yeah, eight or nine, yep. And they they We're like, oh, Jim Caldwell came in for an interview.
Jim Caldwell, like. They should have probably interviewed him for real. Then there were, you know. Was Wade Phillips a guy or whatever?
Well, let's not forget: who was the number two candidate? Who would Mark Murphy have hired if not from Matt LaFleur? This is an easy answer. No, I don't remember. The Northwestern coach.
Oh, Fitzy? He would Mark Murphy wanted Fitzgerald. And then LaFleur came in and just knocked socks off, apparently. I today I'm gonna have to go back and look at who else they interviewed because they interviewed Todd Monken and they interviewed a bunch of random names that would be funny. But LaFleur was like their last interview.
If if he didn't Become the coach, they had like no one else scheduled or no one else to talk to. And we were told he blew the socks off of him. I would love to see that tape because we all remember his first press conference where it was like. It was like Mark Murphy, bring your kid to school day. Which, by the way, can we just never judge coaches on their opening press conference?
They've never agree to that because who was the Jets coach before Sala? What was his name? The Dolphins, former Dolphins? Adam Gates, but that's different. Who Adam Gates was?
There was no mystery about him. He had been a head coach before.
Okay, but well, Adrian Griffin is not like press conference ready. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That doesn't bother me. But also, I think the NFL. I'm going to judge by a press conference for a head coach.
The NBA, I don't need to do that. I think they're different. I think those are two different enough sports that. I think you knew from the press conference, you knew that Adam Gace would be bad. And someone thought he would be good.
Clearly, someone thought he would be good. But you knew he would be bad from that press conference. And I think you knew, and I think you knew from the LaFleur press conference that I don't think you knew that he'd be good or bad. I think you knew that he would be. Capable of being walked over.
This is technical. This is casual speak. That's what this is. We're saying that you can tell a lot about a person's. Authority about a person's ability to lead based on their because they're going to be in front of their team public speaking.
It's their first ever moment as a head coach ever speaking to the media. You know how intimidating the Green Bay media is. Imagine staring down the barrel of a Pete Doherty question. Oh, I'm going to crush one. Imagine if I would have had to do that on my first day of work.
I would have pissed my pants right on the spot. Here's the problem. And you just set me up as if you knew you were going to get crushed on this debate. There's a lot of firsts and that lefleur is what part? Terrible at first.
Ooh. He can, he needs a sec, at least a second, but usually third and fourth try on things. Would he be better at that introductory press conference today? He would. Did it take him four or five years to get to the point where he'd be good at it?
It would. Just like travel schedules, just like what to do with his running back room, just like to do with how to set up an office.
Well, Cohn had a tweet that made me laugh so hard. All right, Grant, did I, did I, did I? That's a very good point, Paul. I still think the press conference is whatever. Was Cohn responding to you the tweet that made me laugh?
That LaFleur is the worst traveler since the Macalesters. I think he said, like, he rivals the McAllisters as the worst traveler of all time. I see the way he called this game, and I know we're going to talk about La Florida. Before wakes up like the yeah, like the McAllister, we did it again! Yeah.
I left my entire playbook in my office in Green Bay. Fuck. I'm going to run the Paul Christ offense. Like, ugh. I don't know.
I don't know.
We'll talk. We'll get there, I'm sure. But love.
So, love, no, they. They haven't because you you're supposed to give that money to the guy. And then so now I'm saying that. Like Joe Burrow. Like, you know who the good quarterbacks are.
But it's like it is similar in this case, I believe, in the NBA, where the max, the max contract, and specifically the Super Max contract is supposed to go to LeBron and Giannis and Jokic, but it then goes to Bradley Beale. Because you're like, I don't know, we can. Jalen Brown. Yeah, I mean, Jalen Brown is the highest paid player in the history of the NBA. Get hurt.
Because the Celtics either had to do that or he was going to leave. And I mean, Jalen Brown to me is obviously much better than Bradley Beal. But, like, Demarcus Cousins, if DeMarcus Cousins just would have been quiet. And happy, he would have been a supermax Sacramento king. six seven years ago like The structure is set up what?
I'm just up on the Bradley Beal versus Jalen Brown. You passed that off very quickly, and now I'm. Jalen Brown is clearly a superior player to Bradley Beal. What are we talking about? You're probably right.
I've never considered this before. This does not matter. Keep moving. I'm going to keep thinking about this, but I don't want to talk about it.
So, the point of death, I think there is a situation where it's set up to pay. The system is set up where you're going to want to pay the quarterback the money. You're going to want to pay the NBA superstar the money, but inevitably. Then the agent of the NBA guy, the agent of the quarterback is like.
Well, I'm not saying he's Mahomes, but like. you know You've seen some of the things. A lot of it comes down to timing. Like, again, with Daniel Jones, there was no. They were competing and they needed Why start over?
If you're competing, so timing the Pac-12 is disintegrating because of timing of their TV contract. It came at the wrong time. But here's another example of this. Deshaun Watson. Not only did the Browns give him the most money ever for a quarterback, they traded like.
Their entire cupboard of upcoming picks to do it for a guy that. A would clearly be a PR nightmare and two like hadn't played in what, at least a year? Was it more than a year? And now is showing that. like whatever magic there was early in his career is that so.
I know I told you to ask this question, kind of, but also, like, it is kind of unfair. You just really control the narrative whenever you turn on a microphone, Bar. You ask and answer the questions. We're going to, this is not the last time we're going to ask this question either. What did Ram once say of me?
He said that I was a. Dictator. I'm a sports I'm a sports media guy. Um No, but because I don't think like I don't think. Thank you.
I don't think This is, I want to, every Jordan Love question that I'm going to answer, I pivot back to LaFleur. The uh I just saw a poll question. Gen, Gen, Gen. I was going to say, Gen, Jabe, and. Gooey.
Jen, Gabe, and Chewy. Is it time to take the training wheels off of Jordan Love? Then yeah.
Well, of course.
Okay. But why are there training wheels on Jordan Love? You're right. Great question.
Because Aaron Rodgers wouldn't let him play last season at the end of the year. But why doesn't LaFleur think? Like, what is the Fleur think? The point of this season is. Matt LaFleur.
is cautious. The same Matt LaFleur who was cautious and timid in his press conference.
Okay. We don't need it. Yeah, and the same one who's cautious and timid in the NFC championship game, the same one who's caught, like, what if you're Matt LaFleur? You've got the all-time winningness record for. Is he like trying to protect that with the shitty team?
Or the average age of everyone is. Like Gap year senior? I mean, what the fuck are you doing? Don't you want to know what you have? Don't you want to know what you can coach to?
Like let your dudes play. The fact that you throw this bomb downfield. And that would be if the Packers were good. All we'd be talking about the rest of the week was the horse collar and how it should be a touchdown. But because we suck ass.
It's like, nah, whatever the fuck.
Well, there's another fun LaFleur topic. It's like, okay, first and goal at the three, Dylan for minus one. That's the thing. Why are you that way? Why, why?
And I understand I'm just a fucking guy. But why does everything LeFleur Do. Why do I disagree with everything he does? everything, every decision he makes. I think that's wrong.
That's wrong. He makes them always wrong. You know, Bart, you know, I know one of your... I think if someone was to make like the five Bart Winkler topics, one like, and like, what, what, tell me about the Bart Winkler. Sure, what are like five things he believes in?
One of those five would be that you could be an NFL head coach and coach a team to nine wins. The fucking Miami coach. Has never knelt, has never had his guy take a knee. Ever. He like how do you not How do you get to this level?
People oh I would never question you're saying the Miami hurricanes, not the yeah, first of all, I would never question. Uh, an NFL coach, they've forgotten more football than I'll ever know. They know more football in their pinky. The fuck does that even mean? Also, it's impossible to hear Cristobal without hearing it in like the Berry voice.
Cristobal. Cristobal. Please. Anyway, so go on. You were saying that I hate coaches.
They're stupid. They're dumb people. Anybody. Anybody. Could call a run through the guard and the center with the big running back guy play, like the halfback dive with the like the play that LeFleur called, and he called how many plays last night?
50-something plays. I'm talking about two of them. There were plenty of other things where the Packers should have won. What? Um there were plenty of shitty plays that were there were so like Ben.
I don't want to the game was also Monday night.
Sorry, Monday night. Come on, Paul. But the play call on those on that goal line. And by the way, I did see, and I was like, Prior to When the prior to that series, I saw that the Packers were like nine for nine. in converting touchdowns um Or seven for something like that, where they're, if their goal to go, that they got a touchdown.
So, like, they've been good this season in those situations. In this particular scenario, those two play calls were like, you had to know everyone watching knew that that wasn't going to work with Dylan up the middle from the three, Dylan up the middle from the four. It was the play was written, the outcome was written before the play was snapped. But anyway, keep uh yeah, go ahead. And then they rolled him to the short side of the field and had him throw across his body to Romeo Dobbs, who was standing out of bounds.
Yeah, that also was a question. Uh You know what this is like? No, go ahead, yeah. Please, let me. Oh, I'm being a dick.
My my My biggest failure. as a dad, up to this point, Wow. Has been that I just still after four years don't feel a connection. I'm just kidding. I love this little guy.
You know, there's a line from The Simpsons this week where Marge was like.
So, okay, dad, dad zone. Marge was like. I don't remember the last time I held Bart's hand because I was never thinking that it might be the last time. Wait, the Simpsons have this topic? Yeah, I didn't watch the episode yet, but I read about it.
So then. I always think, like, every time I pick up my son, someone's like, you never know the last time you pick up your son.
So I always think about it. And what's worse? Is it worse to think about it every time, or is it worse to not know? I don't know.
That's neither here nor there. That's just a dad question for. us to talk about over coffee sometime. Oh, you don't drink coffee. Over diet do.
No, my biggest failure as a dad right now is that my kid's four years old and he doesn't know how to ride a bike. That's my biggest failure as a dad.
So he had this thing at school where they ride bikes or do scooters. And my kid did a scooter and he barely even knew how to do a scooter.
Now, finally, the other night I took him and we were scootering and he got better. But it would be like if I took my kid to this little bike thing. And people were judging. Him for not being able to ride a bike. No, I've never given him the tools or setup to ride a bike.
I'm the problem. I'm the reason he doesn't know how to do that. The fleur is the reason why love stinks sometimes. That was honestly like I think one of the most interesting things about you as a sports radio guy is like That was an incredible analogy. But you bake it in comedy as if you're not like you know like granted you know what i'm saying like that like that was Perfect.
But because you're, but because you're a, sometimes you're a silly man, it's like, oh, is he just going to set up for a punchline for a joke? But, like, dude, shout out to you. Like, what a you that was. Then I took a turn into unnecessary existential dad crisis for no reason. I could have done without that because now I'm traumatized.
But. Yeah. Oh, it's traumatizing. You never know. It is traumatizing.
Grant, your thoughts on the rearing children? I could wait a couple years, probably. Please do. It does sound highly rewarding, don't get me wrong. But Um, let me just say this about love and the guy money and Anyone who else has additional thoughts, please share them.
The alternative to the Giants not Paying Daniel Jones to the Packers, if they had to choose today, not paying Jordan Love. is for first off you Very you're very unlikely. To find that you have a guy named Brock Purdy at the end of your bench, it's very unlikely that Sean Clifford is Brock Purdy. It's very unlikely that whoever the other sixth-round pick, seventh-round pick, fifth-round pick on the Giants, in theory, if they would have drafted a quarterback because they knew Daniel Jones was leaving, it's very unlikely that that guy's just going to step in and just, you know, have the Shanahan machine behind him and just be like whatever. But what you can do with the rest of your roster is if you're not paying an average to below average quarterback to the other guy money.
is you can spend that money on the rest of your roster. Like the 49ers did. And yes, they really screwed up the Trey Lance thing, right? They trade up a bunch of stuff, but they got away with it. They never paid Trey Lance.
So, what they lost in wasn't salary cap space, but. a version of how you can build a team. is to like when Russell Wilson I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back. I'm wrong about plenty of things. One thing that I was right about.
It's like when Russell Wilson was in his rookie contract. The Seahawks defense was absurd, right? And the thing that I told all my friends at that time, and I was covering the package at the time, was like. I don't think I would ever re-sign Russell Wilson. If I was the Seahawks, I would always have a couple.
Rookie contract quarterbacks ready if I could keep that defense elite. And so we would always be the juggernaut defensive team. Because by the time you pay Russell Wilson, you're going to lose everybody else.
Now, in the meantime, maybe those defensive players get old, but the point is: you guys talk, I got to go hug my son. That you never know. Good timing. You never know. Okay.
But it's but like so like Grant. Eventually Brock Purdy's gonna Brock Purdy is the guy. Right.
Right, you would give Brock Purdy the guy money today, yes? I well, I money, I don't know, but he's he's fine, he's good. I fucking have to admit it. I want him to have a bad game so bad, but it just looks like he's not gonna.
So the problem with eventually in two and a half, three years having to do that for the 49ers. Is as soon as you do that. The rest of your team isn't as good. That's how it works. And it's because you only have so much.
The salary cap is a myth. No, it's not. It will eventually catch up to you. The Packers are going to be paying the David Bakhtiari bill and feeling the repercussions of that long-past David Bakhtiari being on the roster. The salary cap is real, it will eventually catch up to you.
When you pay the guy, the rest of your roster suffers.
So If you think Sean Clifford is... A C and Jordan love is a B minus, but the rest of your roster can be an A. Or a B. Like there's. There's a decision.
There's a conversation there to be had of Alex.
Okay, because love is not that bad, and we got to talk about Sean fucking Clifford. No, no, I'm not advocating it. Let me just actually just say. I see this. That's a cool music.
Oh, is that that like from Arrested Development where there's like art on his wall, but it's generic? Is that what that is? Bought an antique store, three bucks, baseball me or Dan Shaney YouTube. Which antique store did you go to? Oshkosh antiques.
Oh, I'm a clock tower guy myself. But I don't spend money when I come to Milwaukee because I don't like your city.
So actually, I take that back. Especially Brewers' game, you would not be spending money also in Milwaukee. Bart, I don't know how much that you heard. Hopefully, none of it, because you should have been embracing your moment with your son. Um, but they Like Brock Purdy's the guy, right?
Bro, you're officially all in. You would give Brock Purdy the guy money in a heartbeat, yes? All these teams rush to give them, don't rush to give the money. Thank you. Thank you.
I probably don't have that. But but why why why in why in baseball? Are we like Let's pay this guy as little as possible, as much as we can. And then we'll have a meeting about how much we should pay him and just trash the shit out of him to get a judge to pay him less. And then in football, it's like, Guy gets player of the month one fucking time.
It's like, would you like 250 million, sir? They don't actually do that. Rogers, Rogers signed a contract. Like two years later, he signed another one. Why?
Who the fuck knows? But that is not normal. This is not a typical situation for an NFL contract. Brock Purdy is good. I am a believer.
I rock with Brock. Would I pay him the money? No. Not until it's time.
Well, I'm not telling. Of course, the Niners aren't actually going to do it. But by the way, Rock Purdy, though, I do think the Niners should like. Work some sort of NIL deal for him. I don't like these stories where, like, Brock Purdy's still got a roommate.
He's only making $800,000. Are you kidding me? In San Francisco, that's nothing. That's like $40,000. That's true.
He's basically part of the problem. Basically, radio money. God damn it. Um Anyway, any other thoughts on Love the Guy or? No, Packer stink, though.
All right, I did not have this planned and I saw Aaron Nagler saying on Twitter acts like Something to the effect of, again, I didn't have this plan, so I apologize, but it was something to the effect of. That's The Packers are not going to fire anybody over the bye week. Get it out of your head. Like, don't have these next two weeks go by with, like, who's, you know, Barry or this. Like, there'd be a big change.
Nagler was like, there's nothing to be any changes. That aside, there should be some kind of big something. Over these next two, and there should not that not that there will be. I agree with Aaron. I don't think there will be, partially because Florida's a Timid, scaredy cat guy.
And you knew that since his press conference. But I don't think there will be. anything but There should be some there. Should some walls should shake, something of relative significance should change before the Packers have their next game.
Well I thought that game on Monday night was one of the worst coach games I've ever seen from both teams, which is why it's so disappointing. It's like the Packers had to try extra hard to lose because the Raiders are not good. And the Packers had 11 days, and they had the crowd on their side. And Josh McDaniels is actively handing you possessions and handing you points because he's an awful. Decision-making head coach.
And I thought Matt LaFleur was a plus. But I hated his fourth down decision making. I hated his timeout usage. I hated his gameplay. I hated fucking everything he did on Monday night.
I thought it was stupid. And if I was covering that game, I would have asked at the beginning of the press conference: like, hey, Matt, did something change? from the first couple of weeks to now, like, do you have reason to trust Jordan Love less? Like, did you has your opinion of him lowered for some reason that we don't know? Because Vegas can't cover.
Like they can't they can't their secondary is horrible. And they did the BS run, run, then pass for the most limited amount of yards that you could possibly need on third down. It's terrible. I don't know what the change would be, though, Paul. Like, I don't like Joe.
I don't like Joe Barry as a defensive coordinator. I haven't for like two years. No, this game was not his fault, but I still don't like him. And if they were playing a quarterback and a head coach that had a fucking clue on Monday night, they would have given up 40 or 50 points because the defense is not good. And Jair probably isn't worth the money they're spending.
And Rashawn Gary, everyone's like, pay him. Why? So he can be like the 10th best edge rusher in the game. Like, no. It's you know, that's another conversation.
Rashawn Gary to be the 10th best edge rusher in the game if he's being paid like the 10th best edge rusher. The problem. This is another thing people love, people love doing this part. The price is only going up. Fucking why?
Every week I watch him against Max Crosby, who's way better. Like Andy Herman tweeted about it last night. I finally don't feel like a man on an island anymore. When Andy Herman's like, hey, Rashawn Gary's very good, but like, he's not that. Like Max Crosby, and this is an indictment on Matt LaFleur.
He's their one good player on defense, and he crippled Matt LaFleur. Just, just, just crippled everything Matt LaFleur tried to do. One good player. Imagine if they played against a defense that had two good players, or even, or even three, like in the case of the Niners or the Cowboys. Imagine what would happen then.
And by the way, you want to know the biggest red flag of this Packers offense? Here's a change they should make. The more active Josiah DeGuara is, and the more things he's doing, and the more you notice him, the worse the play is about to be. If Josiah DeGuara is in motion, ready to do something and lay an important block, you are fucked. on that upcoming play.
Because it's about to go sideways.
So I don't know if there should be a change, Paul. I don't know what the change would be. I would like Matt LaFleur to become a fundamentally different coach than when I saw him. Yeah, there's no real change that could happen. Yeah.
They're not firing Barry.
Well, here's. Let me just say above. The change needs to be Matt LaFleur. Needs a new personality. Yeah.
Yeah, that would be great. Um If if the Packers season ended in a similar Fashion to what the first five games have been. And there's no, maybe it won't, right? Like they're about to have a bye week. They can come back and with the same coaching staff, with the same personnel, and be better.
Also, by the way, let's not just overshadow Aaron Jones, has just not been available, and he was supposed to be the one. offensive player that had You know, and you saw it in week one. I know that was like the Bears and whatever, but like, he was Aaron Jones the difference, so but. If the season kind of ends in a similar way. I mean, I almost shudder to think that the answer to this question is no, but clearly Joe Berry would be fired this offseason.
Like if like, so if I do think there is a there is a reason to say. Rip the band-aid off. Like, if it's inevitable that this is not your guy. That this is not the defensive coordinator who's gonna lead you to the NFC championship game in the next five years. If that's your goal, right?
Or Super Bowl should be the goal, but let's just at least say the NFC Championship game. If Joe Berry's not the guy, And the system he's implementing is not the system that you want your young players to become super accustomed to, rip the band-aid off. You might be worse in the interim and it might be ugly in the interim. Is that a problem necessarily? Like if the long-term goal is what it should be?
Like, rip it off. Like, he's this this is not. He Joe Berry's not the coordinator of this team when it becomes good. Right? When the Packers are good and the Packers are competing, Joe Barrett is not the defensive coordinator.
So What are you doing? And what is all the purpose of this in the meantime? All of the arguments for Joe Berry, and like Red Shed was on your stream last night. And Redshed was right. And Joe Berry, it was not his fault.
It was not his unit's fault that the Packers lost Monday night. Monday night. It was not Joe Berry's fault. But that doesn't change that I don't like his scheme and I don't like the personality of his defenses. They're always on their heels.
They don't hit hard. They're not aggressive. And Matt LaFleur. Needs he needs someone to bring the aggression because Matt LaFleur doesn't bring it. And that's fine if Matt LaFleur brings good scheme and good decision making.
He brought neither on Monday night, but up until Monday night, I thought he was pretty good at both. The defensive coordinator then needs to. fill the gaps where the head coach is weak and that needs to be a little Some huevos, you know, some cajones, and Joe Berry is like an accountant. And he sits up in the booth and does not add that.
So I know I don't. He's not the guy. It wasn't his fault on Monday night, but he's this is classic sports radio. He wasn't the problem, but he also wasn't the solution. And he needs to be the solution.
Well, well, Grant.
Well, Grant. Two things can be true here. They're not mutually exclusive, okay? Having said that. What a dumb business.
Rif right? Uh Let's get off of Matt LaFleur. He sucks. It was just such a Okay, how about let me just ask you this, this you get you get a one word answer to this question. One word.
When the packages are good again. Like Top sixth team in the league, like legit contender. Matt, you don't get to expound. You just get to say mm-hmm or mmm. when the package are really good again.
Matt LaFleur is the head coach of the team at that time. Or mm-mm. I will expound. Ah. Matt LaFleur has gone.
I tried. As far as he will ever go. Yeah. You're not winning a Super Bowl with Matt, with Matthew. Patrick LaFleur.
Who last time I did that, I guessed his middle name and I was right. Sign of weakness. The grant? When the factors are good again, Matt LaFleur is the head coach. Barts has a definitive mm-mm.
If Monday night is an indication of where he's going as head coach, then I will say absolutely not. No. I will add this, that um You add that while I get a phone chart. Go. A happy place hemp is a promo code right now that you can use.
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Part. Bart, real quick, you always have fun pronunciations of words and you put the emphasis on I like that, that's good humor. Have you ever seen the actor Matt Berry in anything? I think he's a British lad. He's in like what would you do in the shadows, or what we do in the shadows?
And He's in that new animated show. That guy on Sports Center, Matt Berry. Different Matt Berry. That Matt Berry sucks. I um I just don't have an opinion of Sports Center people anymore.
But you'd, you'd get a kick out. Yeah, I don't really know this guy. That's kind of his whole stick. You'd get a kick out of him. Hmm.
Anywho. Paul Please. Should we get off the Packers entirely? RuPaul. Oh, yes, sure.
We've been going for 45 minutes. The time has just passed so quickly because I've had so much fun with you guys. I didn't even realize. It's better than two. A hoot and, dare I say, a holler.
All right, Grant, I'm so interested in particular. I've not heard you talk about this yet. Oh, this is some trade machine. Shut up. Nope, it's not.
Um Craig Council was great. Over his tenure as brewers manager. But it's a perfect moment in time for the Brewers to bring in a new manager to see if another voice and style can unlock a higher ceiling for this franchise. Really quickly, before I answer that, there was a play during last night's game where I sat on my couch and thought that that is the football equivalent of giving Jesse Winkerin a bat. And I I can't remember what it was.
But now I'm going to have to try to remember. There was something. Uh-huh. Was it Ben Sims getting a catch? He made a nice play.
He made a very nice play. I have yet to see Luke Musgrave. We saw Richard Rogers try to do that for like six straight years and never once could do the simple 10-yard catch and run. When Sims had that play, I honestly hoped it was Musgrave. And then when I saw it was Sims, I was like, oh.
Yeah, Vikings preseason legend. But, anyways, I will try to remember that. Craig Counsel, what? It's time for a new voice. Is that what you said?
Well, obviously, he's a free agent. I think if Craig Counsel said, I will come back, the brewers would say, sounds great. Yeah. But like I what I'm trying to ask is has the has the s I think a coach can be great. And it kind of goes to what we were just saying with LaFleur, who's not great.
But there's a certain point where you have to go to that next guy to kind of see. And by the way, that next day might be worse. Could be. It might be worse. He was really he was really about to get there I could tell Um I was hoping.
I don't know what happened with Paul just now, but I was hoping that he would hear it. I don't think that. managers in baseball, I don't think they actually coach.
Okay. Expand. How much do managers coach? Like. Is getting a new voice a thing in baseball?
Well, I think so. It's a new guy to make decisions. But getting a new voice like Rob Thompson, his team seemed to respond pretty well to him. The Phillies manager who took over Joe Girardi's spot last year, I think there's something to a new voice, don't you? Or is that just something dumb that only we talk about in sports radio?
Like, I think there are things that only exist in our world, and everyone on the outside of this world is like. Rolls eyes. I don't think the brewers Like, same decisions. What I'm trying to say, Paul, is I don't know that. A new voice is a thing in baseball.
Like same decisions. It's same decisions. If you took a different, any different guy. And you they they made every same decision that Councilmaid? That doesn't There's not like a new voice isn't a variable.
The brewers Well, I don't think in baseball I couldn't disagree more. Manager coach. We call them managers for a reason. Which to me is the whole point here. Like, it's not about maybe how Craig Council coaches.
Like, maybe the next guy also gives Jesse Winker at bats in those situations. Like, that's. I think that's something. What a manager does is sets a mood, it sets a tone, it sets an expectation. And if you are counsel as much as you might love him, and we just voted this guy.
Through a month ago as being better than two And Wisconsin head coaches who won championships. Like, we were like, yes, council over here. Council over Bundhoser. But let me just say, like, but a manager is almost like. And I think a lot of ways over the grind of 162 and over like an eight-month, including.
Spring training, like they're setting a tone and a mood. And I think there's something to be said that if you're a player in the locker room, you're just coming in or you've been there a while like Okay. Like, this is wow. I don't want, like, subconsciously, I accept who we are in this situation. And it doesn't mean counsel is the problem.
It just means that, like, what I like about Giannis' approach. As the GM of the box, let's face it. Is like To him, progress is sometimes like changing something.
So, Clearly, he wanted to have a coach in Griffin who's going to let him go play defense. Like, Giannis just talked about that the other day, right? Oh, it's so nice to get low again and really have to go accept a defensive assignment. And, like, He, Damian Lillard, we're going to talk about this in a couple of minutes. You know, is obviously an upgrade over Drew Holiday, but like.
Giannis didn't want to just rest on having, okay, I don't want to go through another six months with like the same everything.
Sometimes you need to say, hey, we're very good like this. Could we be better like this? And by the way, the risk you're taking there is that you might be worse. But I I just for me, I think that the manager in baseball is in a lot of ways more important because of how long the damn season is. And I think at a certain point, like expectations and to a certain extent complacency, no matter how great that manager is, can become part of the culture.
Yeah, I mean, I said what I said, and I'm willing to like back off of that. I do. I've said, I said, I wonder. Remember, I said, I wonder. Ah, that's a good, good out, yeah.
But also, like, uh. Stalling to remember the point that I was thinking of 608-321 or 414. That's a good time to read the number. Yeah, 855-212-4227-855-212-4 CBS. Come on.
I Think. Thank you. When like Again. It's baseball.
So we may be, we're, it seems like this is it. It seems like. This is what the brewers are under console. get to the playoffs, lose in a real fucked up way. Yeah.
But how much of that do I blame on counsel? Doesn't have to be blamed. Like with MacArthur. you After the NFC Championship game in 2014, there it is. There is like, this is not working.
This can't be. There needs to be something fresh. There needs to just be a change because this is it now. Are we at that point with council? And if we are, it's not because of council, it's because of how baseball is set up.
And I think council agrees with you. I think counsel agrees with you. He look. Council's a manager.
Okay, but he's the Brewers fan first, grew up around this organization, and he knows that as a fan, it's getting frustrating to watch this team every year. But he also knows that he is held in a revered fashion.
So he intentionally brought Jesse Winker onto the roster, had him play in both games, so that when counsel does leave, we're like, oh, well, fine, it's probably time for the best. He did that for us to cope. David Stearns did the same thing by trading hater. Hey, this way, they won't be mad when I leave. I saw David Stearns at Oakland Euros three fucking weeks ago.
How the hell did he get to New York so fast? The other by the way, Grant, Grant, before you answer, because though again, we let's just be clear. Again, a month ago, we all voted counsel as a better over the past 15 years, who's been the best coach/slash manager of McCarthy and Won a title and Budenhözer won a title, and Council has not even been to a World Series. We still voted for him. And in the poll that I put up, The 60% plus.
Voted for council.
So, like, we weren't alone in that. But, Bart, a better analogy of the in the Winkler verse is you're. your Jason Kidd example. Like the house is burning. Right.
The the brewer's house is it's not even There's not even like the There's not even a spark yet. Like, there's not There's you're no rush. You left and you're like, did we leave the stove on? Like we are we forgetting something and then he goes Oh, the garage might be open. Home alone.
I caught it. I loved it. Um.
So this is clearly not that. Right, this is not Jason Kidd. This is not Mike McCarthy. You could very well, if Conther was willing, run it back and You know. Try again.
But I would vote definitively in the campus that I think, given the way this ended. In the way that it did, and the fact that council is clearly on the fence at best, if not already decided and has been decided all year, and they just kind of wanted to be cool about it. And by the way, Yes, we were recording this before. Matt Arnold talks, so we should. I don't know if you prefaced that while I was.
No, if something happens in that press conference, I will just take this out of the show. I still, but I disagree with that. And I'm not sure if you're taking that literally, but like, there's still a kind of like, regardless of council's decision, and it is council's decision, Matt Arnold's not going to say, you are not welcome back. That's not happening. But like, there is a.
There is a potential benefit.
Now is the time. To have a different voice, to have a different manager. Mm-hmm, or mm. I mean like I I'm so I'm mm-hmm. I don't I don't I don't think it's I said but that's not blame.
I want to be very clear. Like, I'm still going I well. I was like, how would I take my own poll question from a month ago today? I'd clearly have a lesser opinion of, and that makes it sound like blame. But again, I do think there's something to be said for a same or similar result year after year after year after year after year.
And I would, Bart, like, I would, would you rather be. I don't know.
I was like, would you rather be a 60-win team for a couple of years if you knew the light at the end of the tunnel was like much brighter? Like, of course, I would, but I'm like the long-term future-looking guy. And if you don't know that that's going to be what happens, you don't know that if you make that change and that you stink for a couple years, that you're going to end up in the World Series in 40 years. But I've talked too much. Grant.
I have two takes. I can be quick. One council specifically, and one on change specifically. I'll start with change because you just mentioned it. I think sometimes.
When you run the same team into the playoffs over and over and over again, and you come up short. Even though it might not be.
Someone's fault specifically, you have to change something. Because I think. The more times that the team gets revved up with the battering ram to approach the wall and to try to break through and they don't get through. Yes. Again, it might not have been Drew Holiday's fault.
It might not have been Chris Middleton or Bud's fault. You just gotta change something because now, when the Bucks this season, and I was gonna use the Bucks as an example, I'm glad you brought them up. when they approached the wall this year with a battering ram. They're going to feel like they have different weapons. They have this is different.
This is a new challenge that we can sink our teeth into, and I think that's important. Oh, If council decides to move on, the brewers I don't think would do it voluntarily, but if council decides to move on and they're able to get a solid manager and they don't hire a dud. I think even with a very similar team next year, the results could be different. The challenge is going to feel different. That might be a good thing.
And that's not an indictment on counsel. Correct. Correct. So I think sometimes we talked about, well, you don't want to make a change for the sake of change.
Sometimes a change is just good. Like if the bucks are a nine out of ten. with Dame and they're an eight and a half out of 10 with Drew. The team might pound for pound be very similar, but the feeling is going to be different. Spirit is very different.
I agree entirely, as I'm sure you can tell. I think that applies to the Bucks, and I think it in the change of a manager and a slight roster, maybe adjustment if they trade burns a couple other guys. That might, if the brewers handle it well, it could be an advantage in the long run. Specifically, on council, this is my other take. I think counsel might be too smart for his own good sometimes.
Like I think occasionally you need a manager that buys in. to things that aren't real, like Mojo. and momentum. And I think Council is so smart. And in 162 game season, it's great because the Brewers can lose a heartbreaker when Devin Williams blows a save, and Council can come to the press conference in June and say it happens.
Like Devin Williams is occasionally going to blow a game. It sucks that it happened tonight. It happens. We will be fine. And then they work, they turn out to be fine.
Like, counsel is the great manager, but I think if In the playoffs. Like Yes, Council, we understand why you did the Jesse Winker thing. It's like the numbers match up, but you're too smart. Like you're too smart when your whole locker room is. By doing that, by doing Jesse, like.
There was no Unknown I know There's literally. No outcome. Where the brewers should be getting booed. At Ampham. In a playoff game in a one-run game.
But council found the one thing. Yes. Yeah. Well, and he has to know like. He has to know you can't put this guy on the roster.
And then he has to know that you can't play him. But counsel's like, we need a pinch hitter lefty who has decent on-base splits. The facts are correct. But the facts aren't always like, sometimes you need to go with feelings.
Sometimes you can't go with facts. When your whole locker room after a playoff loss is saying, well, shit, baseball.
Well, bring the young kids up that don't know any better. Mm-hmm. You don't bring a guy who's Have a like Ah, fuck. You're right. So wait, let me ask you this question.
There are members of the brewers roster. Who have a group text chat together in which they have since texted with each other saying, why the fuck did he bat Count? Why did he bat Ringo? They don't give a shit. They don't care.
Oh, I disagree entirely. They, I care if they have. No, there are players on that roster who are texting amongst themselves after the fact now the season's over, being like, He I he used Winker twi what the f was he doing? Like, I promise you, the team was not just like, all right. Maybe a new voice is needed because I don't get that vibe from the Brewers.
Well, that's a problem then. You're saying they should be talking shit about Council, about the Winger Bats, and they're not. Yeah, I think the whole vibe is.
Okay, I'm with you now. The whole vibe is council's whole vibe is. Thems be thems. Yes. Yes.
And Bart, the whole locker room echoes that when you listen to Mark Cannon Christian. Christian Yelich in talking about councils, like, you know, we're a small, you know, fuck it. Council needs to go.
Well, that's.
Okay, that's separate. But the whole idea that this baseball game comes down to a few coin flips, like, yes, in fact, it might be true, and council is smart to know that, but you can't say it, right? You need your guys believing that there's some. Like higher power or not higher power that they're in control of. Like, you need your guys to believe that you can go into Tampa Bay.
and win a series if you just listen to fucking Creed. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
We're the analytics to say that shit. And I don't want to be anti-analytics. That's not what I'm saying. But sometimes you need a manager. Yeah, the analytics say.
Fuck the analytics. Dude, Joe Buck said that a hundred times, my friend.
Well, the analytics say, what are you trying to? Everyone, there's no analytics are so stupid. It's it's like Oh, it's fourth and two at the 50. You fucking go for it. It's not holding.
What time of the game is it? Are we down? Are we losing? Like, you can't process that shit in your head. Like, I know, I should probably go for it here.
I'm gonna punt it. You can't process shit in your head. You need a fucking calculator to tell you. Like, you might come up with the right. You might be doing the same math.
We don't need to see the math to do the maths. Just fucking feel it. Let me feel it. Let me bring up this analogy, too. Damian Lillard said I want to trade from Portland.
And then when he realized it wasn't gonna be Miami. The report was that he went to Joe Cronin, the Blazers GM, and said. I'd like to come back. And as Damian Lillard told the story to Chris Haynes. The Blazers GM'd Joe Crohn and said.
Yeah. The it we're we're too far gone.
So I wonder if the same situation had this a very different situation. It's a, it's an, it's a, it's an iffy comparison with Craig Council and the Brewers, but like, I, I, I.
Well, do you do you think Matt Arnold has known all year? What Craig Council was going to do? Like, do we really think that it's. It's been a toss-up. Like, it's let's see how we feel.
Do you think Council has known? And if so, do you think he has shared that? And they've just kind of. Again, so just on Tuesday afternoon, I'll believe anything because apparently the Packers' athletics staff didn't feel like telling the head coach that their running back maybe wasn't going to be available until like six hours before a game.
So I'll believe whatever the Brewers say about what they knew or didn't know about. Council's future plans. Yeah. Again, it's it's Yeah. Council has been a fantastic.
I'm going to say fantastic. I think, again, because they. It depends. Like, what do you value more? Like, the six months of time you spent investing and mostly thinking, like, hey, this guy's awesome.
This is a great manager. But the board is awesome. Or do you remember the 58-hour period where he twice went to the Winker well? And, you know, like, but like. I don't know.
The Brewers, the Brewers cannot be the Phillies. The Phillies can mess around and figure things out and be middling and work through issues and still get into the playoffs because they're that talented. The Brewers aren't. Like the Brewers need that manager who wins them one-run games consistently in June and July. Otherwise, they're not getting into the playoffs and we're never having that conversation.
I see what you're saying. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Um It's it's just Council, this is the last thing I'll say. If we're going to slam Matt LaFleur for talking about travel and complaining about travel, and then we hear his players echo it, like when Matt LaFleur bitches about travel, and then you hear Rasul Douglas talking about it in here, we have to apply the same logic with Council, who goes, Yeah, oh, shucks, we lost a playoff game because a couple coin flips went against us.
And then I hear all of his players saying the same thing. I don't like that. I don't like that. Yeah, we need to be done soon. Yeah.
I just want to read this tweet real quick from Badger Noonan, who around the holidays always changes his name to Badger Boo Nan. I think we need to consider the possibility that LaFleur doesn't actually understand how the run and pass are supposed to bolster each other and winds up calling run, run, pass like an eighties Neanderthal. He may have a dumber standing. Instead of understanding a dumber standing of the Shanahan offense, very good. I'm gonna I want to do one.
I'm on your box one. Yes, thank you. I have so many of these, and I think some of them will still be good for the next couple of weeks. This I'm gonna go with the most Um I'm going to go with the one that I heard discussed over the past week. The trade that ended up happening between Boston.
and Portland for Drew Holiday. had been initially baked in. as a four-team trade. They had already Pre-worked out. That Drew will go to Boston and Brogdon and Robert Williams and those draft picks will go to Portland and blah blah blah blah blah.
I will just say I heard A split reaction amongst like NBA reporters, you know, the the wind horse of the world, the ESBM guys, the you know, there was there was a mixed reaction about how that would have gone for the Bucs. That like Drew Holiday going to Boston. Five days later was like a worst-case scenario, which by the way, I do agree with. I you know Clearly, him going to Golden State for Chris Paul, or him going to the Clippers for Terrence Mann and some stuff. Like, those are better outcomes for the Bucs because Boston got better.
But If this had been a four-team trade from the get-go, and we knew that, okay, Holiday goes to the Celtics and Dame comes to the Bucs. Would that have changed anything for you? No. And would have changed anything, do you think, for John Horst? No, people, and I said this way at the...
People need to fucking understand. That this is not a trade. For Damian Lillard. As you know him. This is a trade.
to pair Damian Lillard with Giannis Adetta Cumpo. Yeah. You're not trading Drew for Dame. You're true, you're you're and by the way, I'm totally right If the Celtics had Yannis and Dame. Yes.
And the Bucks had Brown and Tate. Like, it's so fucking obvious. Yeah. Everyone knows it. They know they're doing it now.
They know they're doing it. Drew being regarded. Oh, the team USA wants Drew back desperately. Where was this for four fucking years? Yeah.
We're the ones, we were the ones trying to say, hey, guys, Drew holiday's pretty fucking good over here. No one gives him Drew Holiday's an all-star? How did this happen? What the fuck? Get off my fucking fuck fuck you.
World, we You guys. Giannis Adena Kumpo. for years. What happens in the playoffs? This fucking wall.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he Nick Nurse, Nick Nurse, the dumbest motherfucker ever. He runs copy. Concept, you run a seventh-grade Y ball, but we're like, we've never seen boxing one.
The fuck, you haven't. Nick Nurse, oh, big man run fast. What do I do? Put guys there. Holy shit.
Wow. Genius. Damian Lillard. He's running around in Portland. Do you know who's been his teammates the last f fifth ten years?
Shit. Guys are bad. Yeah, Damien says, I've never been in a picture like this.
Well, no, you're in a picture with Al Farouk, Aminu, and CJ McCollum. CJ McCollum, who Was he a little overrated because he was playing with Dame? Yes, yes, absolutely.
So, Damian Lillard. is doing like the point guard version of what Giannis has been doing. By himself. Hey, let's. This guy's good.
Let's just tack him. Let's just double team him, triple team him.
Now they're together! They're together! Playing the like the 48 and a half wins is the over-under. Are you fucking serious? I saw this.
And this team has this, and then they have Middleton, and they have Lopez, and they have Portis for now. This team is going to be fine. Fucking incredible. This is, they have the closest thing to the 73 Wynn Warriors. That we have seen.
You are pairing Damian Lillard. With Giannis Adetta Cumpo, brains cannot handle. What that will look like. People are gonna be shocked. Oh my god, this is fucking amazing.
Yeah, no shit! That would grant, you want to be the one to try to follow that? That was no, I no, I don't want to follow that. You'd still do the trade because I think I think there's, we talked about this, there's value just in change, just in swapping Drew Holiday for another great player. And I think Damian Lillard is an upgrade.
There's value to just bringing back a different team with different. Yes. Oh my God. I'm so glad that you're doing it.
So, Bart's specifically talking about Dame the player, and the fit is awesome. And You know, I think it'll be great, but there's value to just not doing the same thing for the third straight year. Yeah. Because they came back the year after the title, Middleton got hurt.
Okay, whatever. They came back last year, and I think they. They felt like that they were owed something. Because I think if Middleton had been healthy the year before, they'd probably make the finals. Like they gave Boston everything they could handle without Middleton.
And I think the team carried that a little bit. And that's part of the reason why they got got by the heat in the first round.
So to just say, no, we're not going to run that team back again. We can't run that team back again or that coach. There's value in that alone. And if that means Drew Holiday goes to the Celtics, which Can I be a little bit can I be a little bit like Bart here in that? I'm right.
about a good amount of NBA stuff. And I constantly have purveyor of the NBA Lounge. I am. And I got to hear it from Justin Garcia all the time, who's a friend of this pod and mine. And I just.
I'm fucking sick of it. Like, I'm tired. I said, Drew Holiday on the Celtics is very good. He's a very good player, and he will make the Celtics better. Everyone is going to say that it is a perfect fit, and that Drew Holiday is the traditional point guard the Celtics have been dying for.
And I will tell you that that's not a perfect fit. It's a very good player being added to a good team. He's going to shoot like ass in the playoffs. Giannis and Dame is a perfect fit. Yes, Giannis and Dame is a perfect fit.
Um And the Celtics will fans will come out in the ways that they do when Drew Holiday puts up a four of 14 shooting performance in the second round of the playoffs. And plays them out of a game in the fourth quarter. I think he's more of what they have. He's more of a combo guard, an oversized combo guard who can play point guard.
So the Celtics are going to be a bear. They were going to be a bear already. And at least now the Bucs have a tool that they haven't had in the past that will help them when their offense logs down, which has always been the problem. Yeah, but do you remember when Devon Halliday shut down Damian Lillard in the playoffs eight years ago? That's another thing.
And this, and this is, I think, is an interesting conversation. It's like, well, you lose the individual defender. You lose the chess piece that is Drew Holiday. You know who should be most thankful that Drew Holiday ended up in Boston and not somewhere in the West? Is Devin Booker, because he is perfect for Devin Booker.
He's not perfect for Jimmy Butler or Jason Tatum. I don't know if having that individual stud defender is worth it. If when Jimmy Butler gets hot, it doesn't matter, anyways. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if anyone is stopping Jimmy Butler, maybe Giannis, when he's not hot.
So, so trade him for something else because that defense wasn't doing you anything in the postseason last year. Yes, none of that that could not, and I know the way you said it, but that could not matter less because Damian Lillard didn't have Giannis. Yeah. Giannis didn't have Dame. Like, I don't care what happened.
This unlocks a whole new level of. Of, like, outcomes and possibilities, and people are not thinking of that from a fan standpoint. Thank God. Cause this next six months was going to be. Just I was gonna be doing I probably would have quit post games in January, be like.
Guys, I can't do this. We're saying the same shit. They're winning games like 50.
So there's this. I'm going to go back to going to Bucks games. I went to one last year. I went to a Saturday night game, you know, and I'm in Milwaukee every other week, and my girlfriend lived next door to Fiser. We never went to games because I'm like, oh.
I've seen it before. It's the same shit. And that's great. And I'm not complaining about the same shit because it's a really good team. I don't need to spend my money to go see it.
I tell you what, we were in Milwaukee on Sunday. We were at Greeby's Bakery in Stallis. What a treat that place was. And I was like, oh, the Bucs play at noon today. I'm l let's see how much tickets are, because if they're twenty bucks, like.
She's a Vikings fan. The Vikings didn't play until three. Let's go watch some of the Bucks game. They were like 60 bucks second level tickets for a noon preseason game, which is another thing I would like to bitch about at a later time. That that only Brooke Lopez played in.
Yeah, 60 bucks. I was like, we'll sit up in the nosebleeds. There's not a bad seat in Fiserv. I just want to go to a basketball ticket. Oh, Bucks tickets are too expensive.
People want to do like a Winkler verse meetup. No, fuck no. Not for box tickets. Yeah, Sunday at noon when NFL games are going on, I could not get second-level tickets for less than 50 bucks on Ticket One. Those should be $15.
I agree. That should be the day where it's like, let's have families come in with their kids. Like, there should be a family night touch to NBA preseason games because it's actually a perfect opportunity to bring your kids on a Sunday afternoon. Anyways, getting your kid into the facility.
So that he when you this is what I do with the Packers now I go, buddy, we've been there. Yeah. It's a huge. Yep. Hey, that's the baseball stadium we've been to.
Oh, I see the slides. Why is there so much parking? Is that what he says? There's too much! There's more at Disney World!
What is going on? Or there's more than it does, you know what I mean. Tim, edit that out, please. I sounded like an idiot. I didn't land the joke.
All right. Well, good stuff, gentlemen. Good stuff. I weirdly enjoyed the Brewers and the Bucks stuff more than the Packers. I did not expect that when we started this podcast.
I thought we really got somewhere with the council discourse. I was most jazzed for those council and like. The dame, the fire. Did you hear like if there's like decibels, a decibel reader, like for both of you guys, and I love it. I actually usually get most passionate about.
Bucks topics as well. But that was just, I get passionate about when people. are dumb. Choose not to see what's in front of them. Yeah.
I choose to get upset when people have listened to my show or Bart's show for as long as they have and they don't. We know what we're doing. Like, yes, we occasionally get things wrong, but we're batting over 500 here on a lot of takes. Like, please just. Just listen, we're stating the obvious.
Mm-hmm. There's a lot of topics on box for next week already. Ready? Also, I think Bradley Beal's better than Jalen Brown. I don't know that I'm going to think about that today.
I think you're wrong on that. We'll circle that. I don't think Jalen Brown's even that good. I don't either. I think Jalen Brown's.
You're going to tell me right now before I go. You know what, Grant? You're going to put this into the NBA group chat that you have that for some reason my invitation is still lost in the mail. I'll put it. You want to join me?
Nobody group chats are awful. You're trying to get into another one? With NBA nerds? Yeah, fucking Reddit, Paul. I'm not doing that.
My point is, if went with or without me in that chat, Grant. Jalen Brown or Bradley Beal better player question mark. Jalen Brown will win that poll defensively. Bradley Beal kind of stinks, too. These guys are both mid.
I mean, both are overpaid, and both teams gave up way too much to get these guys, but I think pound for pound Bradley Wheel's better. Oh my God, that's insanity. Also, well, ooh. I don't know.
What is like when you think of Jalen Brown? What's like the best moment in his career? I always think of, oh, there was that one game that Tatum was bad and he had like 18 points in the first quarter. I've never seen like. I would have performed Jason Tatum in the NBA Finals.
That's my favorite, but that's more anti-Tatum than Pearl Brown.
Well, that's a great point. But also, I would say the thing I now think of for Jalen Brown is that for some reason, the Celtics posted a video of him being unable in practice last week to dribble with his left hand still. Why they would do that video. And then post it and think: like, here's a good situation for our player. I don't know.
Like He was mishandling his left-handed dribble as he stood there, and he's already.
Okay, anyway. Uh Jalen Brown is Overpaid, but a very good player. Bradley Beal is overpaid and a good player. Both can be true. Both can be true.
Two things can be true. Having said that. Two things can be true. I would like to continue talking, but it is time to go. I have to go.
Goodbye. When Cynthia came to TurboTax, she had just launched her new side gig. A true crime podcast. I'm a first-rate detective with a golden voice. As her TurboTax expert, I made her second income count by guaranteeing 100% accurate filing and her maximum refund.
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