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Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome into the Winkler Verse. I'm Bart Winkler.
Audio only today. Sam Brookhouse is joining us. In a little bit, he's with Sumer Sports. We had him on a couple of weeks ago, actually, with the Senior Bowl.
Now he's at the Draft Combine.
So we will talk to him about that. And Sumer Sports, he's gonna plug a show he's doing. which I have not watched. Prior to the show. Spoiler alert, they didn't know he was doing it.
But that's why he comes on to promote it. And I'm going to watch it. It sounds cool. How they talk about the draft. Sumer sports, S-U-M-E are sports.
They really, if you're, If like you're If you watch TV. ESPN, NFL network. You know, whatever. FS1. If you watch TV about this combine and you're like, I need more.
Or even about anything with football. Like, I need more. These would be guys that I would recommend you go to. to watch and learn from Sumer Sports. Sam's going to join us here in a little bit.
I'm going to talk about the Bucs. and where they're at. I know I'm A little nervous about how I feel about them. I want to say something off the top though. About the week.
That I've had. And the two months now since I have been. Laid off. From the Infinity Sports Network. Again, I was not fired.
I might say I was fired. I can say that. You can.
Okay. But it's been two months and The podcast already existed. The reason it continued. Despite me getting another job. was because I knew at some point I would get laid off.
And I'm putting everything I got into it now.
So, this is my job. I've talked about this. But here's what I want to say. Because I don't Know that People do it enough. I don't want me to not do it enough.
I talked to Mike Wickett yesterday, and that was basically just catching up with an old friend. and putting it out as content. And we could do that because there's an audience for it. I can do this. But there is an audience.
And You can find other podcasts that have more of an audience, and you can find other guys that have more followers. And you can, you know, you can, you can do whatever. You can, you know, there's plenty of people that'll, you know, just. Take their shots as they can. But those numbers are real.
They're real people. They are you guys. If you've popped on the show. Obviously, I love you, but even if you haven't, I love you too. Like there are some of you Who I do not know.
At all. You've never popped on. You never commented. I've never run into you at a game. I don't know you.
I don't know you. And you know me. You allow me to Take up some of your time each day, or a couple times a week, or whatever. I could not be more sincerely thankful for that. Because I I want this to work.
I want this to work for a lot of reasons. I like doing it, I think we do a good job. I think the content's good and entertaining. Um And then, you know, there's the other stuff like I need to prove people wrong. I need to prove people in the industry wrong.
People that are mad at me for how I signed off, even though that's the first time they ever heard of me. People that have known me my whole life. People that Want me to just not succeed. People that think I'm too aggressive online. You know, there's just too many.
There's a lot, you know, there's a lot of people. That Support me, and there's a lot of people that do not.
So I'll play the victim card a lot and be like, oh, but you know. I want to be more thankful. of the people that support me. You guys. Everything you guys click on, everything you guys do.
It's all Support. The sponsors The best way to support me is to support them. Because they're financially keeping this alive. Uh Dan Shaney. My insurance agent.
Danshaney.com. The guys at Happy Place Hemp. Promo Co Bart, 25% off. Chris and Rob. I've stopped in there a number of times.
Love their products, obviously. Um The 20 The 20 milligram drinks. Yeah. That you I take a gummy and then I have a jerk. I just I really like.
I really like what they're doing. Um and and Carl's place. Carl's place, the the golf simulators. And to build your own and all that kind of stuff.
So, again, if you can't put one in. Let somebody else know. Or if you're not into. The THC stuff, and you have a buddy who's been buying stuff elsewhere be like, I got a promo code for you. That's the best way you can help.
And continue. I really want to make sure that everyone is aware. How valuable They're um Support is to me. Because all three of them They reached out to me. They said, Hey, if you're doing this, I want in.
I want to help you. I want to I want I want you to help me.
So I I can't thank any of them enough. I can't thank any of you guys enough. I'm saying all that because I'm proud of the last couple of months. of the show. And I'm thankful to the people that have come on.
And I'm thankful that I can just. Even unannounced, pop out on a Wednesday night, and just, you know, people will show up. Or catch it the next day. The thing that is discouraging me is when people Don't know. Or just see a video of me.
Or whatever. And they'll say With takes like this, I know why you got fired. They don't they don't know me. And that's not what happened. And it really makes me mad and I get I get bogged down in it.
And so I have to say this stuff out loud. To just Appreciate and remember the support that we have. In the Winkler verse. A massive thank you to everyone. who is uh continuing to be a member of the Winkler verse.
No matter how many days a week. You do. Check in. Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health. This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 Show on YouTube.
So, having a counselor and working with BetterHelp that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack, but people don't understand when you unpack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside.
So, I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to, visit betterhelp. That's betterh.com/slash 89 to get started. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Granger for auto reordering.
With on-time restocks, your team will have the cut-resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift. and you can end your day knowing they've got safety, Well in hand. Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Now, another thing that I find interesting.
is I take criticism. But I give criticism.
So I'm trying to find a balance. Like, I can't. I can't sit here. and offer something For you to. digest and consume and then be mad when there's criticism of it.
Because I'm putting it out there. But I'm also criticizing. Players Coaches. Franchises, fans. And that's something that I'm doing.
So I need to remember that, you know, it's a two-way street there. One of the um People that I criticize a lot. is Matt LaFleur. And I would like to read you. This Just saw Aaron Nagler tweeted this today.
Tough look for the Packers in this year's NFL PA grading from a source. The Green Bay Packers fell 14 spots to the 21st. Overall in this year's report card, the steepest. Year over year decline of any team. The drop is driven largely by the decline in ratings for the training room and training staff.
which now rank in the bottom third of the league. Players report a lack of space and outdated recovery equipment. Along with a lack of communication and trust in the training room. These issues are a top priority players identify to be addressed. All right, so the equipment sucks.
Players report that the team does not provide game day child care. as most teams do. How do you not do that? I don't get that. Every team should do that.
Makes no sense. The team's nutrition program ranks near the bottom. Head coach Matt LaFleur dropped a full letter grade this season. and ranked second to last in the league in respect for players. Yet.
He got more years. And more money. To keep doing what he's doing.
So What I'm saying. Is You guys that are criticizing me. I wrong. And me criticizing you guys. I'm right.
Classic Winkler logic. Strikes again. Let's talk about the box for a second. Let's talk about the box. Oh, is anybody else?
Is anybody I'm not feeling parade chairsy? Cause you know that'd be insane But They okay, so I was gonna say they looked good the last couple of nights They haven't. I went to this game on Tuesday. Where they played the heat. And some of the basketball That I saw on Tuesday.
It like blows my mind. These are NBA players. making these decisions and playing this way. Sloppy rebounds. Ball's getting poked away.
Miles Turner tried some like Reverse layup situation at the rack that was really. Uncharacteristic of anything I've ever seen him do. There would be times where they'd get a reason. I was just like, I couldn't believe what I was watching. And then they won that game.
And then Last night. Against the Cavs. Second unit. They almost lose. But they won and that was a fun finish.
You know, we thought he. tied the game and going overtime, but no. Uh Bucs won. KPJ, Ryan Rollins, they're playing well. Earlier this season, I looked at the Bucs.
like a hodgepodge of guys that don't make sense together. But now it's kind of I don't know. They're I things are starting to click, I think, for them. The Rollins and Porter Jr. backcourt.
And their numbers have been great. Um I could pull up a tweet here, I guess. Just whatever. They're a good backcourt. They're one of the better backcourt duos.
in the league. That's all I really need to say. What am I going to throw numbers at you? Who gives a shit? But one thing I noticed, and I think we've been talking about it for a while, or maybe you guys have, I haven't.
quite yet. Oh, complete list of players averaging. 25-5-5 on 48% shooting so far in February. This was as of earlier this week. SGA, Jokic, KPJ, and Ryan Rollins.
So the Bucs have some guys.
Okay. I don't think AJ Green is. As good as his contract. Bobby Portis. Probably not either.
But they play hard and he cares, dude. This guy's like on the court when he's not playing. He's like standing, he's like on the court. He's like coaching more than Doc. I bet Bobby Portis coaches this team more than Doc does.
Doc is, I don't know what. Doc, last night, Doc's calling, they got a quick rebound. He just called a timeout. They could have had a quick transition. He calls a timeout.
Doc. Yeah, I'm with you guys on doc. I don't, I don't. We can have this roster, we can add a guy, we can Giannis is back, and then. Doc, I don't, I don't, this doc's going to get in their way.
It seems like I don't know. I don't know. Doc's like, It's the Kirk Herb Street thing. This guy's no good at coaching. Everyone just pretends he is.
Kirk Herbstreet needs a support animal, but everyone pretends like his dog is the most special around. No, no, no, no. It's and it's fine that Kirk takes his dog everywhere. If he needs to, because some people do that. Just admit it.
That's all I'm ever saying is just admit it. Say this is my service animal. Don't just be like, oh. I forgot his dog's name. Good.
That's not information that I want to have on top of my head ever.
So, uh the box. They're playing better. We're still looking play-in situation. Like, I was feeling pretty good about the Bucs. And then I saw their record.
They're still. Five games under 500, but in Adam Silver's NBA. You could be a playoff team with that. They are a game back of the Hornets. Hornets play the Pacers tonight.
I'm going to watch that game with intent. I'm gonna like scoreboard watch for the 10 seed. I want them in the play-in. I desperately want them in the play-in. And right now, they're a game back.
In a game and a halfback of Atlanta. And then the heat and magic might be a little tougher. Yeah. Raptors could slip down there, Sixers could slip down. I think you can safely say the Pistons, Celtics, Knicks, and Cavs.
We'll all avoid it. Raptors have to win some games. Sixers have to win some games. Right now, seven Magic, eight Heat, nine Hawks, ten Hornets, eleven Bucks. And they're not really.
Nobody's really chasing them. 'Cause everybody lower sucks and the Bulls The Bulls have lost 10 in a row. I don't know if you guys are aware of that. I wasn't until I just pulled up the standings and read them to you. They've lost 10 in a row.
They were 24 and 25. And now they're 24 and 35. Jesus.
So it's basically the Bucs if they want it.
Now, I don't know when Giannis is going to come back. But he'll be back.
So let's say it's let's say there's a nine seed. And they play Atlanta.
So the 9-10 you play. And if you win. Then you play the loser of 7-8.
So if the Bucks are in that 9-10. And they lose, they're done. But if they win, then they play the the loser of seven, eight. And I think these teams in there, these are winnable games. Against any of these teams.
Momidianus. But these are winnable games. And then what? Then you're going to be. The eighth seed?
And play Detroit? Bucs and six, always. It's for the culture. Brandon Jennings said that when he predicted the Bucs to beat the Heat. With LeBron and Bosch and Wade.
Buxton Six was born. They got swept. But Bucks and Six did happen in the finals. But what if that wasn't truly Bucks and Six? What if Bucks and Six is them as an eight seed beating a number one in six games?
And the pistons will be favored. And the Pistons, I think the world of the Pistons. The improvement that they've shown over the years has been great. Cunningham could be an MVP. Guys like Jalen Duran.
Have really come on.
So this is a good team. It's a good team. But if the bugs continue to like peak like this. And get these guys to figure it out and play together and then throw Giannis back into the mix. It's gonna, I mean, this could be, this could be our Miami Heat situation.
the other way when they were the eighth seed and they beat us as the one.
So It's possible. And when I start thinking of that. I start thinking like I start thinking some pretty insane thoughts about where I think the Bucs. Could end up and what time of the calendar they could still be playing.
So I can't say any of that out loud yet. But I'm feeling, I'm getting groined up a little bit about the Bucs. I really am. It's just fun when your team wins. It's fun when your team wins, and the expectations now are so low, and those are the best years.
I think, as a sports fan, when you have no expectations and then the team is good. That's why the brew the brewers The brewers, they still don't have expectations. The win total is getting adjusted up now because they do do it all the time, but everyone's still. It'd be more surprising. If this Brewers team 195 than ni uh 75.
Based on the talent they have, but the culture there and the way the team plays. Um Yeah. They're probably more likely to win 95. But you still go in with like, I don't know.
So the Brewers have found a way to make every season kind of fun. Because you really don't expect it. The Packers, meanwhile, are miserable and reward mediocrity. That's where we're at on those different Avenues of the teams. Miles Turner not playing at the end of games.
Is that a concern for you guys? They are trading him. Yes, I do not believe he'll be a buck next season. I like the move. I love the move.
To it's either him Or Damian Lillard's contract. When he can't play now, next year you could have gotten Dame back. And he could have played in the three-point contest for you. Would he have done that though if he wasn't back in Portland? He just likes be he likes he likes being there.
I I don't know. Good for him. But Miles Turner is not playing at the end of these games. Uh Jericho Sims's. And good on Jericho Sims.
But Shit, man.
So, yeah, it's just a piecemeal team thrown together. We'll talk some more NBA. I'm going to talk with some different bucks. People, basically, if there's a Bucs person I haven't talked to yet, they will be on the show in the coming weeks. I can promise you that.
And I got an old Infinity colleague. Uh that is scheduled to appear tomorrow. to talk some NBA. Amen. Very critical.
of Dock Rivers. Uh And who has also thought that Giannis should get traded for a long time?
So we'll talk about that. That's Bill Ryder. scheduled to join us. Tomorrow. Again, we're brought to you by Happy Play Sam, promo code BART, 25% off each and every order.
Going to be indulging.
Some of that. Big night tonight. I'm almost thinking about doing a live Traders episode. I just love this fucking show. I don't have to cover everything I fucking like.
But traders. Season four. Wraps up. tonight. Sam Bruckhouse is going to join us.
Sumer Sports. And that'll wrap up today's pod. I do have one voicemail. That I want to play. This came in from Marcus.
Again, the voicemail line: 402-915-BART. 402-915. Two, two, seven, eight. Here is Marcus. Hey, Bart.
Marcus and ATX rebranded from Marcus and Denver as I have moved. Um Just got to work after listening to and I sneezed like 800 times on my way in and went through a whole little pack of Kleenex.
So sorry if I sound a little. Congested, but man, you've had me wanting to run through a wall for you, Bart, with that Lambeau field take and. You know, I was just so juiced up when I got to work. All I could think of was like, man, Bart is the dude, because he is speaking truth. And he was preaching.
And all I could think of was uh Scarface Al Pacino is you need people like me so you can point the finger and say that's the mad guy. That's you, Bart. Yeah. You're you're standing up business and you know, I respect you for it and you are 100% true with me. Keep doing it and keep being you is great stuff.
Um I haven't talked to you in a while. Long time, actually. And I needed a Denver take from your trip, even though it's been three months. I need to know if. Their stadium is deserving of a new stadium, which I think got approved by them.
They're going to be moving to South Denver, so they're not moving to the suburbs like Chicago. I need your State Mile High Stadium take if they're deserving of a new stadium. Um And yeah, that's all I had. Great stuff, Bart, loving the pod. Keep it going.
I have one request, Bart. I need some merch. I need to be rep repping it into the Winklerverse ball cap. You know what I'm saying? I need a snapback, 90s style snapback, not like a trucker hat.
So uh Yeah, let me know. Give me an update on that. You have a good day, sir. Yeah, thank you. And thanks for the reminder.
About What I wanted to say. Earlier I'm just going to keep saying the shit I'm saying. I know not everybody likes it, but that's what I believe.
So my biggest plea is Just know. That I believe what I'm saying, even if you think it's the dumbest shit you've ever heard. I believe what I'm saying. The Lambo crowd sucks. I'd rather be the Buccaneers than the Packers.
Matt LaFleur's a loser. I believe what I'm saying. I am also, if anybody else wants to do this journey with me. I'm going to start not being on my phone all day. I was on my phone so much yesterday.
Not even like Twitter or Facebook. Just like apps. I don't even fucking know. Surveys I was doing online. Games.
They're fucking I just am on my phone. Every 15 seconds, I need to look at my phone again. The dopamine is not, I need to get off my phone.
So I'm going to I'm going to put my phone upstairs and be downstairs. For hours at a time. Nothing that I have to respond to is. That urgent. And If it is, well I got a home phone now.
Because I am, I need to. I can't say, I can't say, like, I'm trying to go more analog. I'm buying VCRs. I got a dial-up phone, or you know, Courtney, I got a phone. If I'm still looking at my cell phone every 15 fucking seconds.
What's my screen time? The minute I got this fucking phone, the minute that's the first thing I did was turn that off. That's what I turned off. That that I n I don't know. I don't know.
But I would guess on Tuesday. Or Wednesday, my screen time, if I was up for 18 hours, was probably. Like 17 fucking hours. Even And I'm just thinking about my kid a lot. And all these kids, they look up and grown-ups are just staring at a screen.
Cell phones, I think, are the fucking worst, the worst invention that's ever happened. See I'm just I'm going through it a little bit and I'm sharing that with you. I'm sorry if. You don't care. Anyway, all right, we'll talk some football.
Combine's happening. Sam Bruck has to join us. I'll get on the merch thing, Marcus. Thank you. And I hope you guys buy some of that shit.
And then I could do some giveaways. I gotta do more giveaways around here. Yeah, me saying thank you, that's nice, but let's let's hook you up with some shit. That Bucks hat I got the other day, worst fucking hat I've ever owned. Thanasis.
I don't get it. I love it. I will wear this hat constantly. And I would like the into the Winkler versus hats that are going to drop here this spring. To be your version of the Finassus hat.
It's into the Winkler versus Sam Bruckhouse coming up. Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health. This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 Show on YouTube.
So, having a counselor and working with BetterHelp gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack, but people don't understand when you unpack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside.
So, I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to, visit BetterHelp. That's betterh.com/slash 89 to get started. If you're an HVAC technician and a call comes in, Granger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product, fast and hassle-free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat.
With Granger's easy-to-use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRA, clickgranger.com, or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Sam Bruckhouse is into the Winkler verse yet again. How are you doing, buddy?
Sumer Sports. He's at the Combine in Indianapolis. I don't know why my intro is so... Jankity, but good to see you. Yeah, I'm so excited, man.
The thing that I like to say about the combine is that It's a good time to build hypotheses based off of what everyone's saying. And I think there's an element of groupthink that you don't want to get into, but when you're a data scientist, your job is to prove or disprove things. It's a lot easier creating hypothesis based on what everyone else is thinking because that's probably the way that the league, the teams, the agents, et cetera, are thinking because people want to be right. And so If I'm disproving what everyone's saying or proving what everyone's saying, I think it provides a lot more value.
So, there's a lot of stuff that I've been hearing that's really interesting at the combine. When you're there, like, what is it that you're captivated the most with? I think obviously, everybody's talking about quarterbacks and wide receivers and the skilled players that we know them the best. Just because they're the ones that touch the ball. But I think this is an opportunity for a lot of guys, and we've talked about this: the opportunity to.
You know what I've done. But here's a different way to show you that. And this is kind of unless they have a pro day, like their last chance. to make a difference. Yeah, I think the closest thing I'm looking at is probably stuff like the tight end in the inside backer 40s.
And then also looking at basically everything across the offensive line, because for the most part, we've seen these guys compete. The problem is, we want to get a sense of truly how athletic they are because there is just a sheer different level of athleticism. at the next level in the NFL. And so I think I'm really looking at the bigger positions, primarily the offensive line. I'm also looking at the tight ends and the inside backers.
And then you're also trying to collect data separately from the actual combine. Or And uh you know, who people think are actually the best players at the position. Like, there's been a couple of shocks for me. Particularly at the quarterback position, like I think people are a lot more confident that Ty Simpson is the. Second best quarterback in this draft and should go in the first round.
And I'm not confident in that at all.
So that's been And a shock for me, but that's basically the way that I'm trying to approach it. That we kind of know what the correlations are, like what we should be watching for the combine.
So I'm focused in on that. And then, oh, and then on the flip side, I got excited about the combine. And on the flip side, I'm also trying to collect information to kind of like stack rank these players in the consensus so that I can get a sense of, you know, where they may go. Number one, which is like that's an analytical deep dive in itself. And teams themselves are trying to do that so that they can predict.
You know, whether guys that are, where guys will be available, and thus how they trade back, trade upwards.
So that's kind of the process for me thus far. You know, this time of the year, I've talked about this. And and I think uh with you, but it's just like There is real data to be learned. There's real things to discover about some of these players. Um but then there's also Like driving right next to them on the highway is people that are.
I don't know, taking advantage of the down period or you know whatever Specifically, I'm asking about, like, I'm already seeing because it's. Fernando Mendoza, number one, he's the guy. But you mentioned Ty Simpson, and now I'm seeing a lot of like, actually. Not just first round, he's better than. Mendoza.
So, I'm very cautious about it, and that's why you guys at Sumer Sports, you don't do any of that. You're doing the data, and that's why it's such a good resource. Um but I just, it's really hard for me as a consumer. To know what these people are putting behind their takes.
So I guess is the like. Mendona's is still going one, right? No matter what happens or not. And then, how much garbage do you see? If you don't want to call it garbage, you don't have to.
Yeah. Uh I mean like Realistically, I'm not going to say people are taking advantage because people can see what they want, but like, If you're going to draft someone with the number one pick in the draft, like you're going to want a blue chip trait, right? Like, you're not just going to move a guy up just for fun. And I think you look at a guy like Mendoza, and he's like a certified 96 percentile EPA per pass. Like, this is just sheer production, but just to put it in.
example Like he's a certified 96 percentile blue chip EPA per pass. He's certified 96 blue chip EPA per run guy. You look at Ty Simpson, for example, he's like more in the 80th. Percentile range. And you can find this stuff on sumersports.com on our draft guide, which is immensely helpful.
And then you go look at some of our sumer traits, which are a little bit more proprietary and based on our tracking data. And Like Mendoza just has blue chip traits that Ty Simpson doesn't. And so you start talking to evaluators, and everyone seems to agree. Like, for the most part, people think that Mendoza is going to be able to at least stay afloat and continue to start games in Clint Kubiak's system where people are really not confident that Ty Simpson can be a year one starter at all. And so when there's that big of a difference.
It's really difficult to believe that there's a close gap between these two players.
Now, as a data scientist, I will say. That The quarterback prediction problem is real. It is hard to tell which quarterback is different than others. And we're very good at collecting data, and we're not very good at figuring out which quarterback will be better. In the data as well, when you're looking at the consensus and there's a massive like 40 to 50 spot gap between two quarterbacks.
Like, there's a reality in that. As well, in terms of on average, what you expect that player to make on a second contract, and it's just kind of a worlds of difference there. This far out again, and you're going to see what you're going to see and talk about what you're going to talk about. How much do you think the. The teams at the top, like Maybe if the Raiders weren't one, maybe Mendoza doesn't go one.
And there's some of these edge rushers. Um that I think are incredible. Who is the one that I Bailey maybe out of Texas Tech? I saw him as a Packers can get him in the third round, and then I see he's going to be a. Top 10 guy, but how many, how much does, how much do you think the teams like There's top five guys, there's top 10 guys, but no, the teams are going to draft based on need.
How much variance do you think there is in the top of this draft? I think based on the teams that are drafted, like here's what I'll say. I think Mendoza would have gone one no matter what. I think we would have gotten into a Jared Goff situation where like a market builds up for a trade. and then all of a sudden someone's number one.
uh saw a similar thing happen with like bryce young and cj stroud uh so i do think mendoza would have gone number one no matter what And I do think an edge rusher would have gone number two, no matter what, because we're looking at Arvel Rees, who people are projecting to be an edge rusher. He's going to participate in the linebacker drills as well. But then David Bailey and Ruben Bain are also probably solidly in consideration for number two. I think that's where it starts to get interesting, primarily because there's a real chance. That, like, when we're talking about big boards, we're talking about the players who are most likely to kind of be an all-pro at their position.
As compared to their positional value, and running backs get paid less than wide receivers and so forth and so on, there's a real chance that the top three players on the consensus big board are all non-premium positions: Jeremiah Love, Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs. And that makes it add variance to the draft because there's going to be teams that are substantially more analytically driven. The Jets who just made a trade are going to be one of those teams. Where it's like, we're not taking, like, we don't care if they're a blue chip player. We're not taking a running back or a wide receiver, excuse me, a running back or an off linebacker safety in the first round because we're not going to get any surplus value.
And that's going to cause us a lot of problems across the rest of our roster. Whereas there's going to be teams who just fundamentally believe that you have to get good players and you have to get players who you evaluate as good. And so, you know, that could mean we maybe see Jeremiah Love go in the top four, or we see Caleb Downs go in the top five. Despite that, typically not happening with safeties and linebackers and running backs. The Combine is in Indianapolis.
A lot of people that we know are there. You guys are there with Sumer Sports. Having just been at the Super Bowl and now in Indy, it's a good time to. Network as I sit here in my basement. I'm coming next year.
I don't care. I don't care if I get a coming to have steak with you guys. Um, Do you notice Because the combine is it is a weird thing It is. I think it's weird. Maybe it's not.
It's. You have all this tape. And I don't think it's bad. It's another chance to see some measurables, even just like if they don't participate in stuff, you can interview them or get to know them. It's a good, so there's a lot of value in it.
There is, though, I think, sometimes. Do you like Some people They're not. They're not cheating. But they're like Oh, I need to be good at this drill. It's not, didn't factor how I played, but if I want my stock to rise, I need to be good at.
This drill.
So it's like you're. You're preparing for a thing to evaluate. Which is a good measurable. Like, it's great to know the 40 time. It's great to know all this.
But it's always weird because like Unless you're on a breakaway trying to get a tackle or you catch the ball, you don't really run 40 yards straight much in the NFL. How much of that do you think? Happens, how much of that do you see? I think we see a lot of it. And the reality is, like, we're dealing with the tippy top of the distribution here.
We're dealing with the best athletes on earth.
So it's like If we were on the middle 50th percentile of athletes, like maybe you see a big jump in your 40, but like these guys are trained to the hilt.
So I do think there's like elements and techniques and a little bit of cheating. But technology has basically ironed that out. Like, if you're getting a lasered 40, you're not going to be able to do the thing where you hide your shorts, like you pull your shorts lower so that the stopwatch can't hit when your knee moves or something like that. We've gotten pretty good at measuring all this stuff. And so it really kind of comes down at this point to the ability for you to actually do it, but there's definitely like.
Cheating and training for it in a way that probably doesn't actually make all that much sense. When what you really should be training for is being a good football player.
So I do think that there's an element to that. Where It's a little bit of a horse and pony show and a bodybuilding show, I guess, to a certain degree. And I'd like to see that. Continuously kind of tick off. I mean, the funny thing is, like, the Rams don't really send anybody to this.
And as a result, the Jaguars don't really send anybody to this either. Because Gladstone comes from that Lesny-Lu Sean McVeigh line. And so I think there's a mix of like. You want to send the guys who understand the medicals, you want to send the guys who interview. You probably want to send the folks who need to negotiate with agents.
Because it's much easier to meet him at the combine right before free agency than to fly him in or whatever. What have you? But for the most part, I think when it comes to like. you know, cheating the drills, training the drills. and evaluating the drills.
There is some subjective stuff that you want to pick up, some stuff that we can't quantify, but like for the most part. We're getting to the point where you can't really cheat it. And if you really did try to cheat it, you're probably wasting some time. Let's promote Sumer a little more. And you, what are you doing?
That You're the most proud of, maybe, and that you think Sumer is covering. in a way that that nobody else uh is or Not as well as you guys. Yeah, well, like... We got a lot of stuff hot on the cooker right now. And the two recommendations I'd say is every day check out Sumersports.com.
We're releasing. New articles. I have my article with the correlation research that can guide you on what to watch during the combine. And then we also have our draft guide, which is like. I check it every single day.
Anytime I'll talk about a prospect, I go look at it. And it's really impactful for me personally. And that's why we built it.
So it would be really impactful for folks who love the draft. Separately, I think the thing we're doing at the highest level right now, you can go on YouTube and check out Sumer Sports on YouTube. Please subscribe. We have our television program. It looks like a TV.
The production quality is immense. It's incredible. And it was so fun to be a part of. It's called the Evaluation. And no one else is talking about the draft in this way, where we're trying to simulate basically.
Uh A draft room with actual scouts and actual ex-general managers having conversations that they would have in a draft room. Around this time of year, with an analyst, me, Sam Brookhouse, on the side, bringing data insights. Uh, and then the fun part is it's hosted by Big E from the WWE, so like there is an element of fun. Uh, and Big E's a football guy, like, he played for Kirk Ferris, he played defensive line. Like, like, this guy knows college football in and out, and knows prospects in and out.
So, that's the thing that we're doing at the highest level right now that I don't think anyone else is doing is like. Yeah, you can go listen to ESPN and not to down ESPN and look like I love ESPN, I watch it all the time, but like. If you want real conversations that are having in front offices and real data that is being presented in front offices, Sumer Sports has it and it's free, and no one else can give it to you that way. How are you enjoying like So we talked. You were at the Senior Bowls last time we talked.
And then before that, you were at the. You were at the Super Bowl, yeah? You guys went. I saw the guy I had on an old radio friend yesterday and I saw a tweet he had this morning about how the radio row at the Combine. is better than Radio Row at the Super Bowl.
And I mean, it's just gotta be. Like, the Super Bowl is a. It's It's not just football. And there's a lot of people that come, but then it's always like. Yeah, we had a good year, you know.
But not as good as The the tide can get my you know Clean my that the the detergent pods can help make you know so there's always there's some of that This is The Super Bowl's over. It is the offseason. Most of the teams are there. But the people that are like going to make it to Indianapolis They want to talk football. They want to talk.
X's and O's. They want to talk data points. They want to talk. Traits. I think Both are fine again, both are fine.
But if you're like A data guy? This has to be unquestionably Better experience for you? Yeah, like here's what I'll say about the Super Bowl: the Super Bowl is fun in particular for me because I think I bring a different approach to the game. That people don't really think about. And so, like.
This year, we were really worried about the Seahawks run game, and Kenneth Walker ends up having a big game. in total. But like if you were to look at his metrics, like They struggle to run the ball, and that's why it felt like at a certain point in time. That the Patriots might come back after Drake May had a big throw and it seemed like he was going to settle down. He ended up throwing another pick, but it was like.
No, they're running the ball a lot. And Kenneth Walker had a drive where he had 87 yards, and then he hasn't done much, and now he has 26 carries or something like that.
So it's like. I think I approach it in a different way that makes it super fun. Also, like I got to talk to Andrew Zimmer at the at At the Super Bowl, who's like, I love travel channel, I love cooking shows. Like, I don't get to do that at the combine.
So, it's just like a different approach. But then you come to the combine and it's really interesting. Like I'll say this, like. There's big people at both of them. There's folks who have hundreds of thousands of followers and who have been doing this at a high level for a very long time.
I'm pretty young. I'm 26.
So, like, I'm definitely bringing a different approach. I'm bringing a different specificity. And my audience is a little different than the folks that are going on ESPN. When I'm here, the folks that are NFL network, the athletic, ESPN, et cetera, are coming up to me and being like, okay, what's the research say?
Okay, like. Third round, who are you looking for?
Okay, uh free agency, like what how I'm a big positional value guy. That's what my master's thesis is on. And I've been working on that for over half a decade now. It's like, which is probably longer than like most people have been even thinking about it. Uh Like that major research came out in like 2019, 2020, maybe.
Uh so so it's like people are asking me like You know, positional value, like how much lower should we view Jeremiah Love in terms of positional value as compared to? You know, a wider, a Carnell Tate, who a lot of people view as maybe a T. Higgins-esque. like a wide receiver two-like character, you know? And that's not the case at the Super Bowl.
Like at the Super Bowl, if I want to talk to those guys, I have to go through PR and all that stuff. But when we're here, they're like, no, no, no, we want to talk to you. Because we know that you're like super dialed into this stuff. And I think that's the really fun part of the combine: is like everyone really wants to share information and be a football community here, where it's more about like. How can I get my clicks at the Super Bowl?
Slash, how do I do really cool stuff? Because we have great access at the Super Bowl.
So that's kind of the difference there. Um I'm gonna Say, this is about me, and then I'll relate it to you.
Okay. So I. Coach my kid in soccer. Because I played soccer growing up. I just I coach him at soccer.
Um there's other sports that he'll play. that I think I know a lot about. baseball, basketball, you know, that he plays. But I won't, I do not want to coach those sports because. By playing the sport.
I feel like Like I can I can coach a six-year-old. In basketball. I can do that. But I don't like It's like soccer to me is a language. that I am proficient in.
And football, I think I am, but I didn't play. You know, and you played, you were at Tulane, you played. How much of an advantage? Do you think that is For you even like If you had if you had everything about you is the same. But you didn't play.
Could you do your job as well as you do? I think that's a really, really excellent question. And I think it's very particular to football. Where it's like, there's some parts where honestly, it inhibits me because when you're playing. football as compared to basketball or soccer some of this other stuff You have one job and that job is really, really hard to do, particularly at the college level.
So, you don't care what the safety is doing, what the cornerback's doing. You don't care about the. wide receivers traits if you were me you were worried about like Figuring out, number one, figuring out if you're supposed to be in the A or the C gap, and then number two, ensuring you don't get murdered and like filling up the A or the C gap, making a play. That's all I cared about. I cared about dropping back to the proper zone at the proper depth and keeping my eyes going one to two.
Uh on the crossing routes or something like that. You know, like it's a different. Muscle to understand scheme and coaching and scouting. It's like very different. And I came up in basketball.
Like my initial job. uh in the industry was working with basketball agents. And it's a f it's I think it's a little different in basketball where it's like a language where when you're on the court, you understand what the players are doing a little bit better. To whereas football, like, I can't really pontificate on what it's like to be a left tackle. Or what it's like to be a wide receiver.
Like I can pontificate on what it's like to rush off the edge and play linebacker, and that's it. outside of like my general understanding. Of the positions.
So I do think it's very unique to football where the things that I bring as an X player is. How hard it is to win. injury health. And understanding of injury and what it takes to come over, what it's like to be in a locker room. Who is a locker room leader and who are the guys that...
That are the locker room leaders. The irony is: it's like, my job is to be a data scientist.
So it does come up in the data science a lot because I'm like, oh, no, no, no, this is probably what's happening. the linebacker the cornerback blah blah blah blah blah but a lot of that comes from external studies The soft stuff that's really hard to understand and sometimes to explain, I work really hard to explain it. Hopefully, that's why I have this job. Is the stuff that actually comes from playing, and I think that's extremely unique to football. extremely unique.
It's also different to the sport. Just thinking of this now. is like I think the one hindrance that I've always had in covering football is. I can like, I know what I see. But I don't know what the intent of the play Yeah.
And I think what you get a lot of times like. You know, people will criticize a team, and then you hear from a coach or somebody that's like, No, we we want like we were calling something different or that's not The coverage we were in, or something like that. And when I'm talking about these other sports, like basketball, soccer. There are plays, sure. But it's more freewheeling.
It's like, all right, you draw a play out of the timeout, but then it's like you're making decisions based on feel, based on where guys are. Football, these plays last. Five to thirteen seconds. And it really is a lot of strategy. And the strategy you can you can Like there's more.
It's a nerdier sport, maybe, than like there is a lot of data that goes into this stuff. This other stuff you can. It's just like it's an art form. It's like expression. It's like live.
It's more like improv, where this is like, no, if we're going to win. We have to prepare. What was the anecdote I saw? I think about Mike. McDonald, the coach of the Seahawks.
where he basically noticed on tape. How the offensive linemen were. Standing? If it was gonna be like a runner pass. Really minor, easy tell, I guess.
But that's the kind of stuff that goes more into football. I don't really have a question. I think I do this to you a lot. I don't really have a question. I just your comments on what I just said.
Yeah, no, it makes total sense. An interesting story. We had Bucky Brooks from NFL.com and NFL Media. On yesterday, and he came up as a scout with one of our Sumer scouts, whose name is Eric Stokes, who will be on the evaluation. Uh Thursday, 5 p.m., like the 26th.
Uh so so today, but um Yeah. He was telling us. That it's interesting because the way that they came up in Seattle, they were both scouts in Seattle. It was that. They wanted to have X players as scouts.
And it wasn't because of the evaluation, like the eyes, like the Steve Belichick. Evaluation book of scouting, the art of scouting. It wasn't about that. It was about the art form of understanding a locker room and understanding what it'd be like to play with someone.
So. I do think that there's an element of that in NFL front offices where the art form is more the Science. Let's say it that way. The science. Is more There's 11 guys on the field, or 22 guys on the field.
These 11 guys are trying to do this to these 11 guys, and there's a set way in which they're going to do that. And the art is more: how did these 11 guys come together to do that? Despite them all doing an individual job. And so I think that's a really interesting element here. that people may lose about like the X players per se.
Is that there's a certain way that everything's supposed to run together. and that's hard to pick up that's the art form whereas the scheme Or what people are asked to do, what the intent is more of the science. I think that's what I've kind of learned through my life as a data scientist, working with the CAP and working with agents, and also playing. I'm going to watch this evaluation show. You've sold me on it.
It sounds cool. So I'll check that out. Later today, Sumersports.com. Sam Brukhaus joining us. That's it.
Go back and have fun. Stop talking to me, man. Go enjoy. Look, here, last thing I'll tell you about the evaluation, which is really funny, is we have Mike Nayok back. like mike mayock is back on the draft scene And he's with us.
And he's fantastic. And, like, I can't tell you enough as a young, as a young, you know, whipper snapper over here trying to learn that. This is the first time I was ever on a studio show. And so Mike Mayock steps on set, and I love Mike. Like, he's great.
I co-host my radio show with him, CSX him. You can watch that NFL radio on Fridays. It replays over the weekend. And When he steps onto a studio set, I compare it to like Kobe and Jordan. uh now i'm not i hope uh hopefully i get to that level No, well, I mean, like, he's the guy, he's the draft analyst.
When you think of a draft analyst, you think of Mike Mayop. Literally, he was such a good draft analyst that he was brought in as a general manager. And he's probably the only person to ever just be like, do you guys. You guys talk like it didn't work out well though for him. Does he talk about like what happened?
I mean, he brought the team to the playoffs, and then, you know, what happened happened off the field and they decided to go a full nother direction. As an organization.
So, I think there's some unfortunate stuff that goes on there. I mean, he is one of the best draft evaluators I've ever seen, period. I'm one of the best understanders of football.
So like I step on the studio set. And it's like the all-star game where Jordan's playing Kobe. And I'm like, man, I got to elevate now. And I got to elevate quick. Like, I got to figure it out.
I got to figure out how to match this somehow.
So that's the level of stuff that is going on in this show. And it's going to be, it's like super exciting. We've had a really great time. The reviews have been really exciting.
So definitely go check that out. It'll be every Thursday at 5 p.m. Eastern. They drop, but they'll be on YouTube.
So you can go back and watch every single one as you want to learn more about the draft. It's fantastic. I've really liked it. Sam Brookhouse joining us, Sumersports.com. Sam, once again, thank you for stopping into the Winklerverse.
Mm-hmm.
