The Changing Landscape of College Sports with Name, Image & Likeness

This is the best of the Adam Gold Show Podcast brought to you by Coach Pete at Capital Financial Advisory Group.

Visit us at capitalfinancialusa.com. This is the Adam Gold Show. So Dennis put up a poll earlier. What should we discuss at one o'clock? And write-in votes are welcomed. The write-in votes were not compelling. So here are the four choices. And the four choices were UNC Baseball gets screwed.

Scott Forbes did. But Carolina is playing today for a chance to advance. Lightning and Rangers, NBA Finals, Tampa Bay Rays slash Pride. NBA Finals came in last. It was a pretty close vote overall. It was a very good vote, very competitive.

As a matter of fact, if we waited maybe 15 minutes, the answers might change. Lightning and Rangers came in third, but very close. UNC Baseball came in second. That leaves Tampa Bay Rays Pride. So here's the story if you are unaware.

And we'll get to the headline here in a second. So every team does, over the course of the season, they do various promotions. Sometimes it's bat day, sometimes it's t-shirt day.

But they also honor groups in their communities. And the Tampa Bay Rays did a pride day. Hurricanes do a pride day. And it's pride month, so a lot of teams are doing it right now.

Yes, absolutely. By the way, the U.S. men's national soccer team who played yesterday afternoon wore rainbow colored numbers on the back of their jerseys. So what the Rays did was simply put a patch on their uniform. Just a patch. And the hats too? Uniform and hats. Just put a patch.

That's it. They didn't go out in rainbow uniforms. They just put a patch on their uniforms.

And there were five players who refused to wear the patch. They all said the same thing. It was basically, it was faith-based. Okay, it's faith-based.

What happened to all God's children? I'm just curious there. Because that would be my question for faith-based.

Because I can't buy this. And this is from Jason Adam, who is a pitcher, one of the five pitchers who, they're all pitchers for some reason. It's not judgmental.

It's not looking down. It's just what we believe the lifestyle. He's encouraged, meaning Jesus, has encouraged us to live for our good, not to withhold. But again, we love these men and women. We care about them and we want them to feel safe and welcome here.

So what's the problem with the patch? Because I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't say it's not judgmental, it's not looking down, and then simply say, and then refuse to put the patch because it is judgmental. And I think I might have more respect for that if you simply said that. I mean, nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. But I just don't think that you can have it both ways. He did say earlier, he did say that putting it on our bodies feels like it's encouraging something that is against our faith.

So that is something that he did say. Except, you can't say it's not judgmental. Because it is.

It's exactly what it is. You can't tell me that you're not judging them after saying that first. Which again, I'm not saying you have to agree to it or agree with it. That's not my point. I'm just saying, you can't straddle the double yellow line in the middle of the road here.

You're either, and it doesn't mean you endorse the behavior, it simply means you are supporting the people who clearly have it more difficult because of the situation that they are in by no fault of their own. People are who people are. So, here's what really struck me though, was Kevin Cash, the manager of the, well that really struck me. Kevin Cash, the manager of the Rays, basically said, you know, our locker room's fine. Like, yeah, that ain't the issue.

That ain't the issue. Of course your locker room's fine. Not everybody has the same beliefs in every locker room. That is a blanket statement across all sports. We have very, very different points of view in every locker room and good teams move past those differences of opinion. There's no way that anybody, I mean, it's all teamwork. Heck, the Pittsburgh Steelers got around the fact that Alejandro Villanueva, part of the leadership of the Pittsburgh Steelers, opted to not honor the team's decision for everybody to remain in the locker room during the national anthem and went on the field by himself. They got around that, even though he clearly went against the leadership council, which he was part of. They got around it because they have a great locker room. So it was never an issue whether or not the Rays locker room was going to be good or the Rays locker room wasn't. This is a difficult thing for the for the Tampa Bay Rays to deal with. And you got five players on your team to put themselves above the team.

Or, or and, and really didn't want to be accountable for it. By saying, oh, we support them. No, you don't.

You don't. So be straight up. And again, I think you probably would find people would go, all right, well, it is what it is. But you can't have it both ways. You either support them or you don't. You don't have to agree with what they're doing.

But you either support them or you don't. I want to take a quick break. We'll come back. Tom McMillan, University of Maryland grad, Rhodes Scholar, three time U.S. Congressman on college sports in the era of name, image and likeness.

Next, Adam Gold in studio with my friend Coach Pete DeRuta with the Capital Financial Advisory Group. We are talking retirement. Coach, how does longevity risk figure into our retirement and income plan?

This is the best of times and the worst of times, Adam. Longevity risk means we're going to live too long. But to me, every day I live is not too long. Right.

Absolutely. So we want our money to outlive us. And unfortunately, many people have seen you out there listening.

Maybe one of them. Your money is not designed to outlive you. You might outlive your money.

And that's not what we want to have happen. Because when we get to that day after you run out of money, it's not going to be a fun time. So let's design a plan that guarantees you'll never run out of money. We call it the GPI plan, Growth Protection Lifetime Income, for the next ten people. This is a golden ticket, Adam.

A thousand dollar value. We're going to do it at no cost or obligation. And all you have to do is call. We make it so easy.

Would you like financial independence into your retirement? And beyond it, 800-661-7383. That golden ticket is a one thousand dollar value. Or you can text ADAM to 21000 for Coach Pete DeRuta. Tom McMillan, the three-time United States representative. He represented the University of Maryland. He played at the University of Maryland. Represented the state of Maryland.

Is the CEO of LEAD One Association. He also played with Len Elmore. I can't imagine that there were smarter teammates anywhere in the history of college basketball. Than Len Elmore and Tom McMillan. And he joins us on the Adam Gold Show. Did you guys just like, I don't know, just talk legal briefs or whatnot in the locker room in the 70s? Well, you know, not really.

Adam, it's great to be with you on your show with a fell turp. And, you know, Len, he was a great teammate to play with. And, you know, we had very different interests. I was pre-med and he was working on his stuff, but we had a great relationship in college.

We still do today. It's funny. I've talked to Len about the things that we're going to talk about.

So I'm just, I'm fascinated to hear where you are. And the name, image, and likeness has taken over college athletics. At least the conversation. I don't know if it's taken over college athletics. I think some of what we are hearing now is just, this is the new issue and we are paying it a lot of attention because it is different.

So I'm just going to let you broad brush this for me. Where does Lead One Association stand on name, image, and likeness and its impact in college athletics? Well, Lead One represents 130 of the largest college athletic programs. You know, we've always been supportive of name, image, and likeness. I mean, from day one we saw it was important that student athletes be able to monetize their publicity rights.

And so that's never been the question. I think the only question is, is everything that's being done today legitimate publicity rights or are there other things mixed into it? Recruiting inducements and so forth.

So when we catch down to pure NIL, we're 100% in favor of it. Alright, so it's obviously been an issue with recruiting inducements and almost every school by now has a, we'll just call them collectives, which are alumni, maybe businesses, that are pooling money. And I think, what did I see, Ryan Day, the head football coach at Ohio State, say they were going to need $13 million to keep their roster intact at Ohio State. My question is, recruiting inducements have been part of college athletics since there was recruiting.

How would we ever stop something like this? Now it's just kind of the lay of the land. Well, I mean, it's a good point, but I can say that when I was recruited, I mean, I did not get a lot of inducements.

I got the opportunity to go to college and to get an education and to have my room, board, and all that paid for. So I'm not, you know, when you say recruiting inducements have always existed, they may, some of that may have occurred under the table. But in my experience, you know, I judged the various scholarships by the quality of the school I wanted to go to and the quality of the basketball program.

I think the issue here is you have to look at how this all evolved. You know, in the beginning, the NCAA said, no, schools shouldn't be involved, they shouldn't be in the middle of this. And what happened was a major part of your business, which is helping your student athletes being outsourced to boosters. And the whole concept that schools shouldn't be involved is kind of upside down. Schools involved in everything. They get student athletes internships, they get them jobs, they help them with tutoring. They, you know, in some cases, when they're underprivileged, they pay for, you know, go to family funerals.

Why shouldn't the school be involved in this stuff? Let me just give you a statistic. In the NFL, it's not the players alone, it's not the teams alone that do most of the merchandising deals. It's them together. 70% of the merchandising deals in the NFL are done with player and team.

Tom Brady, Tampa. And 50% in all pro sports. And so the schools should be working closely on this. And as a result, it's now been outsourced to collectives, where in some cases there could be conflicts of interest. If the collective wants to bring a kid to school and the coach doesn't want that kid, I mean, that's not necessarily the way to run a railroad.

And so I think from the very beginning, the idea that this should be out there in third parties was wrong. The NFL and NBA would never have allowed that to happen. And it shouldn't happen in college sports as well. It should come back into the school. The school should be in charge of this. And now states are reversing the laws. Mississippi, Louisiana are now saying the schools can be involved, which is exactly the way it should be.

Because one plus one should equal three. When the kid and the school are working together, they can build the total brand and not necessarily make it competitive with each other. Tom McMillan, former Maryland star, three-time U.S. member of the House of Representatives, and a Rhodes Scholar. Joining us here also, CEO of Lead One Association. Are you suggesting that, because this is the way I would take it, that the schools should be directly compensating players?

No, it's a different thing. It's like, you know, when the school hires multimedia firms to go out and pull together multimedia deals, they should have a whole player division. They should be working just as hard for women athletes as male athletes.

They should be looking, this whole division should be working hard to monetize these student athletes' name, image, and likeness. And quite frankly, we've been very much in favor of group licensing from the very beginning. Why? Because it takes no time. Everybody gets the same check. It's very egalitarian.

And it works. I mean, it works in the NFL, it works in the NBA, it can work in college sports. What I'm saying is that I just think the school, along with all the other things, it manages tickets, it manages sponsorships. It can also have this player division that works hard for its student athletes. And I think in the long run, if you can turn licensing into kind of a super licensing environment where kids are making real money off this licensing, I think that in the long run it may slow down this drive to turn them into employees and all that.

Because I do think there are some downsides to the employment model. And I think that we ought to have licensing galore. These kids should make a lot of money through licensing. I actually talked to a former football player who received $8,000 in a group licensing check from the old football video game. And I would argue that $8,000 is probably underselling the athletes. But that was a blanket. Everybody got the same.

But that was a blanket figure. Todd McMillan is joining us here. My response to what you were talking about is that the monetization of these players, the schools have been doing this for a long time. That's how schools have been making, you know, back when, like when I was in school, when I graduated in 1988. So this is, you know, the universities were probably making just a few million dollars per year on, like, you know, shared revenue and television money. Because 10 years later, the ACC was the leader, and they distributed $9 million per school in shared revenue.

So the numbers have gone up astronomically. The Big Ten, when their TV deal is done, the Big Ten's probably going to be distributing between $60 and $70 million. The SEC is going to get there as well. So the money has just grown completely, you know, bonkers based on what the players are getting. The schools are afraid of losing their own money.

How do we trust the schools that they'll give the kids exactly what they're worth? Well, again, I will go back to the, I agree with you that there needs to be a new social contract for basketball and football players. And you want that social contract to exist without having to decimate all your other, you know, your other sports, your non-rev and your Olympic sports. And we have to look at this from a national perspective. I mean, if we're just going to have, you know, turn college football and college basketball into mirrors of the NFL and the NBA and wipe out all the other sports, I don't think that's necessarily in our best interest as a country.

And so we have to balance all this. But we also have to balance a new social contract for football and basketball players. And on top of that, you know, in 1991 we had a hearing on the Hill and we were just approaching the first million dollar football coach. At the time I said, you know, if they don't slow that down, you know, we're going to have million dollar basketball players and football players. And so they've allowed the whole coaching thing to get out of whack.

I mean, we'll just be honest with you. There's a lot of coaches out there that are signing 30 million dollar deals who never won a national championship, who are okay. But, you know, the whole, the agents have got the upper hand in college sports. The other thing is coaches can move around and the other school will do a buyout for it.

I mean, that's nonsensical. In the NFL you can't do that. And by the way, in the NFL, if you're a player, you can't, you know, you're stuck for five years with a team. There isn't unbridled free agency. And so all I'm saying is that we have to control some of the excesses, not blow up this great establishment of college sports.

Which, by the way, produces so many kids that get college education besides football and basketball players. And so there's a balancing act here. And, you know, I'm not sure that the system itself is going to be able to reform this.

Hopefully maybe one day Congress will see the point in trying to allow some harmonization of these rules across the country. But I'm not sure where that's all going. I think it's going to be pretty chaotic for the next couple of years. But by the way, you know, to your point, this, the NFL has been really good.

Look at Carolina. They're going to get four of their starters back from the national championship runner up and largely because of NIL. I think these kids say, well, do I want to go to G League and make 37,000 or do I want to take a chance on the NBA or do I come back and make hundreds of thousands of dollars through my NIL right. So it has been a plus for college sports and it just needs to be, it just needs some tweaking to make sure that we keep the best of college sports intact. And the truth is, is that what you're, what you're describing with the Carolina kids coming back, that's true name, image and likeness compensation. And I know you have no problem with that because that is directly off of endorsements, we assume. I mean, there might be some collective assistance there, but these are players who are going to realize their value in the marketplace, whether it's local or regional, maybe some national.

Especially because of the run they add to the national championship game a year ago and be able to make some money off of that. And that is different than recruiting inducements and I'm going to get back to that. I am curious, do you think the collegiate model is, even with NIL as part of it, is the collegiate model fair for the athletes? Well, the collegiate model is not, should not be the only model for kids that don't want to go to college, there should be pathways. You know, I wrote a book when I was in Congress called Out of Bounds.

I made that point very clear. I mean, to force kids to have to go through college to play in the NFL is crazy. There should be pathways outside of that. But what college need to do, remember, these are institutions of higher learning. Federal government spends $150 billion on these colleges and universities. We need to make sure that we understand that the college model, which is unique to the United States, is based upon kids coming into college and at least getting a, you know, a reasonable chance of getting a college education. And although that's not a perfect system, by the way, a half a million kids go through this system and come out a lot better than they were.

Sure. And so I think it needs to be preserved. The excesses need to be taken out of it. Listen, I have a hard time defending when coaches get fired and colleges pay $600 million to them to sit on the beach for them over the last 10 to 12 years. I just find that some of the excesses in college sports that do not occur in the NFL and the NBA need to be corralled. You know, the idea that, you know, coaches don't run around in the NFL, they have anti-tampering. Players don't. There isn't just unfettered free agency in the pros.

I just think that some controls on it are necessary, but in no way taking away the opportunity for a student athlete to earn legitimate name, image and likeness compensation. Yeah, by the way, the best job in the world is ex-football coach, ex-college football coach. It's the greatest job. It's incredible.

It's incredible. You get to go on TV and then you get another job and then you get to be an ex-college football coach again. It is literally the greatest job in the history of sports. All right, let me ask you one more question because I think this gets back to maybe some of the deeper rooted issues. You say that the fear is that we would wipe out other sports. As long as the universities did not get involved in directly paying athletes and as long as the universities didn't like suffer major revenue losses based on people who would otherwise donate to the school that are now donating to the collectives or companies that would otherwise utilize the school. And I believe they still would rather than go directly to the players. I've never figured out why we would lose, you know, non-revenue sports, why track and field would go away, why lacrosse would go away if the schools aren't responsible for direct payments.

Well, I mean, I think you're right there. If it's a super licensing arrangement and these kids are getting, you know, third-party payments, I think you're right about that. But, you know, in the new social contract, I think you probably should even talk about television rights because that's where the bills are in Congress and in California. But there has to be a quid pro quo for that. In other words, the longer they stay in school, the more they advance academically, they should make more.

And in those cases, you are going to have some pressure on the other side. But, you know, for every dollar that a school gives a kid, a male athlete, they're going to have requisite Title IX concerns. So, you know, if I give the male athletes 5% of the television revenue, the women athletes will probably get 5%. So it does balance out in the long run. But I do believe in the big picture, if colleges could develop their own player divisions and really focus on really maximizing publicity rights, maximizing internships, maximizing the experience a college student has at that school, that makes a lot of sense in the long run. And with that, kids will want to stay in school a longer time. And so I think that we – I don't think this has to be, you know, a zero-sum game.

I think that one plus one can equal three here. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I've been talking about this issue for the better part of a decade. And I've always wondered why we wouldn't look down the road and say, you know what, I wonder if kids would stay longer if there was a financial incentive for them to return to school. And I think we're going to see this.

You know, it's funny. I'm just going to use Zion Williamson as an example here. He wanted to come back to Duke for another year, but it was financial suicide to not take, you know, forget about the NBA's money, all of the money he made away from the NBA. It was just a bad idea to not do that.

But had he been able to – right? No, I agree with you, Bayon makes the same point. I think it will be a – it will help retain great athletes. And hopefully they'll get some education.

And it will make them a better professional athlete when they go into the pros. Yeah, I mean, I don't – I agree with you. The education to me, and you and I may disagree on this because you were a scholar.

I wasn't. Believe me, I was not at the University of Maryland, Mr. McMillan. I think the college education varies per student. And not just based on the student, but based on what the school wants from that student. We just, you know, we're 10 years out from an academic scandal at UNC. And it was clear that the university didn't really value the education that they were providing the athletes.

That's just very obvious from everything that we know about that. So it's not just the students, sometimes it's the institutions that kind of devalue that education that is offered. But yes, it is – it's a great opportunity in most cases to get that degree. Yeah, and I think that college sports is an admirable job of taking 500,000 kids and giving mostly a degree every year. And I think it's really a powerful system.

It's the only one that exists in the world. And you know what? If I were head of the NCAA, I'd find a way to get that to a million kids. And they would be from disadvantaged backgrounds. And I would want them to have the experience of a college education because that will change their life. It may not change everybody's life.

It will change enough of them that it will make an enormous difference in our country. Tom McMillan, I appreciate your time. I hope we can do it again, CEO of LeadOne Association. He is the CEO of that, three-time U.S.

Congressman, a Rhodes Scholar, an 11-year NBA vet, an Olympian. You have a great resume, a better resume than Len Elmore, to be perfectly honest. Oh, hey, my great teammate. Thanks, Adam. I enjoyed being with you.

Take care. Tom McMillan, hopefully we can do it again. All right, Dennis, we put four on the board. Actually, almost five on the board.

Let's get right to halftime. We're going to say five on the board today. All right. You know the rolling cheese race competition? Yes.

So people have probably seen it online. It hasn't been around for a couple of years because of the pandemic. But the Gloucestershire cheese rolling... What did you say? Gloucestershire?

Sure. Gloucester. Gloucester. Just go Gloucester. Gloucester. All right, the Gloucester cheese rolling competition. We can't pronounce anything in the UK. No.

And nor do I intend to. The Gloucester cheese rolling competition was brought back. Now, for those who don't know, it's where they roll this big wheel of cheese down a hill. It's 200 yards long.

Yes. And whoever gets to it first wins it. You win the cheese. The cheese roll. You win the cheese. Well, congratulations, because we have from North Carolina State University, Abby Lampe. I'm from North Carolina.

What brings you here? The cheese rice. That's right. Abby Lampe, our winner on the women's division.

She legit won this. When you solicited right in conversation pieces, right? Oh, yes. You know, we do a poll just about every day. It's like there's one day a week we don't, and we do a poll where you can decide what we talk about. And today it was Tampa Bay Rays Pride Night.

Somebody wrote in, Tranquility wrote in, NC State cheese wheel chase world champ. All I can say is, tomorrow. Yes. Tomorrow.

2.15. That is fantastic. Yes.

I'm very, very excited for tomorrow. I'm just curious, what would, and we'll ask this of Abby tomorrow, what would possess you? Like, I want to do that. Yeah. I mean, that could be dangerous.

Oh, people get hurt doing that. It's a steep hill. Yeah. It just, the videos are just people literally just rolling down the hill. It's not a mud hill though, right? It's pretty.

It's pretty muddy. Is it? Yeah. I mean, I gotta go look at it again. It's a big, yeah. It's not the most enticing thing to do in the world, just roll down this hill, but you know what?

You can say you experienced it. Now you hold the cheese. What's your go-to cheese, Adam? My go-to cheese.

Ooh. I'm a, I'm a, I like a good smoked gouda. Oh, there you go.

Good smoked gouda. I respect that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I mean, do you want, do you want to expand this? We could rank them off if you want to.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, go ahead. Do we, can you play the rank off music?

That would take away my half-time entertainment music. Oh, we can't do that. Uh, yeah.

A good smoked gouda, I like a good extra sharp New York cheddar. Okay. I prefer the, like the lighter. I don't like the, I mean, I don't, it's not that I don't like it. I like it fine. I prefer the, uh, the lighter and, um, you know, also like a little horseradish in it. Okay.

Very nice. And a Havarti. Gosh, give me, with some dill? I don't know about the dill.

No, the dill Havarti is phenomenal. Give me fresh mozzarella. It's hard to go wrong with fresh mozzarella.

Oh, like the, the really, the really fresh. Yes. Yes. Cheese curds. Like actual like cheese curds. Oh, there's cheese curds? Yeah. Oh, I lived in Wisconsin for a bit.

Yes, you did. Cheese curds. Fantastic.

Okay. And I'm not going to lie, a nice white American. Gosh, it's not even real cheese. I know it's not. It's not even real cheese. But it's great for grilled cheese, Adam. It is great for grilled cheese. And that's why I love it.

All right. So there are, there's a growing popularity with F1, especially here in the United States. And a lot of it has to do with the increased exposure of Formula 1, thanks to the Netflix series Drive to Survive.

It really boosted popularity here in the United States. Well, the TV rights that ESPN has to Formula 1 is going to end here after this year. So we're looking at 2023 media rights and moving forward. Well, according to Business Insider, again, ESPN holds the rights, but starting in 2023, we're looking at a bid now or bidding war, I guess you could say between ESPN, NBC Universal, Amazon and Netflix for live rights.

Netflix needs live sports. Yes, that is a big thing. They're going to drive the price up.

Yes. Well, it's going to drive the price up. Now, apparently, reports are saying that ESPN currently pays about $5 million a year, just $5 million bucks a year for Formula 1. Well, apparently they put in a bid for $70 million, but Liberty Media, who owns Formula 1, is looking for $100 million plus. Now one of the reasons why Netflix is going to be potentially a buyer into this is because they have that drive to survive. They already have that content. So they can package it around, watch this show, this original programming and the live race itself. And again, we've talked about how Amazon, Apple have all bought into live television and live streaming. Netflix needs to get into that in order to keep its subscribers and this might be their way into doing that.

Yeah. Look, if you don't have live sports, live sports is the only thing that like the ratings, it's not across the board. Ratings are not continuing to go up for every sport. Major League Baseball ratings are down, right? But people watch live sports, they just do. Just live content. If you're Netflix and I can get just about everything you've got other than your original programming, like I could get just about everything you've got elsewhere, I don't need you.

You have to give me something I can't get anywhere else and you have to give me enough of it. Okay, Formula One is not enough for Netflix. They need more than Formula One. No, but it could be their foot into the door. Right. It could be their first thing. It's a start. Yeah, it is a first thing. By the way, Stranger Things Season 4 Volume 1, fantastic.

There's my review on that, speaking of Netflix. College Football Hall of Fame ballot has been announced. Yes. James Peppers, part of the ballot. Duh. Tim Tebow, also part of the ballot as well. Tim Tebow is one of the great college football players of all time.

That's an easy one. Julius Peppers goes in with my first ballot too. I mean, there's no question that Julius Peppers belongs.

Good for... I like the fact that a guy like Tebow, who was a terrible NFL player, I mean, don't at me or fine at me if you want. I don't care. He's an old fan, he was a terrible NFL player, but a transcendent college player. Like Tyler Hansborough belongs in a college basketball hall of fame.

Yeah. Not a good NFL NBA player, but he belongs in a college basketball hall of fame. Now, fortunately, Naismith, the basketball hall of fame... Just all encompassing. So there is just, in college, man, this guy was a beast. But yeah, Tim Tebow is a college football hall of fame.

All right, final bit here. In July, so just about a month away, EA Sports, so EA has a game called Apex Legends. It's a free game for people to play. The Apex Legends Global Series Year Two Championship will actually be coming to PNC Arena from July 7th through the 10th. Forty-five teams from five regions across the globe will compete in the event, which has a prize pool of $2 million, which is pretty intense. Apex Legends, again, it's a free game by EA Sports, or EA, I should say Electronic Arts. It's a free game. EA put on an event recently, actually in Sweden, that had more than 10.3 million hours of live content watched by viewers.

Really? 10.3 million hours of live content watched. What are we watching again?

From an event in Sweden. It's just people play this video game called Apex Legends. We're watching people play a video game.

I realize that there are certain things that make me sound old, but I am willing to accept this zero. For the life of me, watching people play a video game, I don't get. Here's the thing.

I don't get it, but I understand. People do it. It's live content, though. I know.

Here's the thing. It's competition in the sense that it's a game being played by actual people, even though it's virtual. It's still a game. It's still competition. I get it. It's live, and you don't know what's going to happen. It makes sense. I understand all of that, and you're right in every possible way.

But this is the time where I accept my oldness. Just can't. By the way, East Carolina leads Coastal Carolina 2-0, Pirates batting in the bottom of the second inning, made on second in two outs. Just thought I would give you that update. There you go. Is that where we are? That's where we are. That's where we are. All right. We are going to place bets, and somebody has to add up winnings from the weekend.

Next. Over the crossbar, and the Hurricanes have won the Stanley Cup. It's June 19, 2006, but it all started May 6, 1997, with the announcement that the Hartford Whalers were coming to North Carolina.

It's a story of transition, of heartbreak, of figuring it out on the fly. The Cane's Corner look at the 25th anniversary of the move, presented by the Aluminum Company of North Carolina. Listen now. Find Cane's 25th anniversary wherever you get your podcast. Have I missed we're doing an Elvis Costello date?

We are. Gosh. You requested it. Tremendous.

I did. Underrated Elvis Costello. Very much.

Very underrated Elvis Costello. East Carolina with a 2-0 lead through two innings over Coastal Carolina. So good for the Pirates. Their manager didn't get ejected. Real quick about the Scott Forbes thing. Cliff Godwin's fine.

Real quick about the North Carolina thing. Over the weekend, Scott Forbes deserved the ejection. Even if you say he was right in the argument, which I actually believe the umpires got it right, but even if you say he was right in the argument, he argued too long. The end result there is you're going to get ejected.

The two games he got in addition to the ejection, just stupid, stupid. Shame on that umpire. I mean, sometimes you just let the manager vent and he'll wear himself out. Sometimes you just let the manager vent.

That was bad, bad umpiring. All right. Let's place bets, Dennis. Place your bets. Place your bets. I bet you slice into the woods a hundred bucks. Gambling is illegal at Bushwood, sir, and I never slice. Dennis! Okay, you can hold me.

I owe you. I can't remember the last time I watched a PGA Tour Champions event on television. I go to the SAS Championship in Cary all the time. Love those people.

But watching the Champions Tour on television? I did yesterday because I had Jerry Kelly to win at plus 2,500, and he was in a playoff with Kirk Triplett, and thankfully it only lasted one whole. Jerry Kelly, your winner. Absolutely. Absolutely. Props to you, sir. Gosh. Somebody's paying attention because I got hit up on Twitter over the weekend.

Who had Jerry Kelly to win? Not me. Plus 32.05, thanks to that.

Plus 32.05. Why don't I actually bet money? Alright, Dennis.

I'm not even saying where you are. Hey, I made money on my last ones. You were plus 75. I was.

You picked up 75. Alright. Chaos let me know. Where are we going today, Dennis? You start us off. Alright, UEFA Nations, Croatia, France today draw plus 250.

That's a good match. Chaos is trying to come back from getting beat at home by Denmark. They are. Alright, so speaking of, I'm not going Denmark. We're going to take the, remember what we did with the Warriors once they lost the game? Yeah. We're going plus, we have plus money on the Warriors to win that series.

That's right. I'm going to do the same thing with the Tampa Bay Lightning. They are now plus 120 to win that series and I'm going to take them at plus 120 to beat the Rangers in the series.

I'm going to go hockey as well. Avalanche Edmonton Oilers. I have Kale McCarr not only scoring a goal, but scoring the last goal of the game. Last goal? Yes.

Empty netter Kale McCarr plus 1,800. We are trying. It's either that or it's a no-for-team winner. We are, we are, I could be, we are, we are trying to get back in this thing. I like it.

All right. I've actually have forgotten who Iceland is playing, but I am going to take Iceland to win their match at plus 185. I just, I just wrote down Iceland. Oh, they're playing Albania. Albania, right. Iceland plus 185 over Albania in the Nations League. I have Iceland, I'm looking at right now, plus 230. Okay. I like that better. Plus 230, if that's what we're talking about.

I wonder if one of their ices is, is not playing. If that number went up, that's a substantial difference. Yeah. All right. You go. All right. My final one.

Shohei Ohtani, home run plus 265. You should do this every day. I should. Don't skip a day. This is the third time you've done this.

At some point you are going to be through. They're at home against the Red Sox. All right. But I'm going to try and buy a win today for the Mets. Mets, by the way, came back and took, split the four-game series with the Dodgers with a nice comeback win yesterday. I'm going to take the Padres, Padres host the Mets tonight in the opener of a three-game set. Take the Padres minus a run and a half at plus 180. All right. The Padres minus a run and a half at plus 180 to beat the Mets.

And that's where you go. The, did you, did you watch any of the men's national team this weekend? I did not.

Yeah. I watched a lot of lacrosse though. I thought, well, I know you do. I thought the U.S. was really good, should have scored in the first half. I thought Uruguay was good in the second half, should have scored. Like you could argue that the United States should have lost to Uruguay. But I would also counter that they should have been ahead in the first half. They were not. It was a scoreless draw for all of the good that Greg Berhalter has done as the manager of the United States men's national team. They haven't beaten a team ranked ahead of them.

None. Haven't beat any of them. And they are ranked 15th.

So there's not that many teams ahead of them, but they haven't beaten any of them. This is the Adam Gold show June 19th, 2006. But it all started May 6, 1997 with the announcement that the Hartford Whalers were coming to North Carolina. It's a story of transition, of heartbreak, of figuring it out on the fly. The Canes Corner look at the 25th anniversary of the move presented by the Aluminum Company of North Carolina. Listen now. Find Canes' 25th anniversary wherever you get your podcasts.