What Makes College A Scam? My Debate at Cal State Fullerton

Hey everybody to the Charlie Kirk show. You know I always tell you I'm going to be on campus, on campus. Why don't you hear about these campus interactions for yourself. These are two conversations I had at University of California at Fullerton with two young ladies. They're not edited.

They're unscripted and rather important and fun. This is the type of dialogue that we need. These conversations have been seen by, no exaggeration, tens of millions of people.

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Go to NobleGoldInvestments.com. I was hoping we could talk a little bit more about how you see college as a scam. Okay.

I think we did that but sure. If you want to talk about something else, we can talk about something else. I was just curious. What would you like to pinpoint on that?

Yeah. Well, I think a big part of your issue is that people are spending a lot of money and that you feel like they're not getting the equivalent of all the money that they go into debt or that they have to borrow to make it worth it. Well, in that case, I think education is really awesome. I think it's really valuable. I think education is the only way that someone like you is able to write a book is because someone taught you how to read and write.

Education on all levels is great. I don't think that's your issue with college. Do you know where I went to college? I don't think that's important right now. Let me just. I didn't. I'm just talking. I said read and write.

Who taught you to read and write? No, I agree. I didn't say grade school is a scam. Can we just keep going? I said college is a scam, not grade school.

Keep going. We're talking about the financial part, right? Do you think that college should be free then so that everybody can get a free education? No. By the way, what's happening in college is not an education. Well, OK.

I'm just. You don't think that college should be free because it's not an education if it was? No.

If it was an education in your eyes, would you think that should be free or what do you mean by free? You mean paid by somebody else? Oh, sure.

Taxpayer dollars. OK, so. Yeah, so. So paid by somebody else. Sure.

Sure. No, I don't believe that your schooling should be paid by somebody else. I want my taxes to go to schooling for everybody.

I think education is great. I don't want my taxes to go to fund wars. I don't want my taxes to go to the military or the police budget, but I don't get. You don't want any military. I don't think that it should go to fund the military like that. I want my taxes.

You don't want any police force. I want my taxes to go towards education because I think education is valuable. Do you think that education should be what is it for? So define education. I'm curious.

Sure. It's just the I would probably say that education right now is the ability to go out and and learn different mindsets to be introduced to different subjects. You have the opportunities to talk about these things with a lot of different kinds of people. I think that's the really cool part about college.

Someone like you can come here and have different opinions. My history teacher just talked about how he's like, see, look, he does this whole like I'm a conservative, old school conservative act. And then one of my other teachers, she's like, I'm a bleeding hippie. You know, there's like a lot of opportunities to just. Be introduced to subjects you didn't even know were a thing, like I didn't know that semiotics was a thing until my last philosophy class. And I think that's really interesting. So just the idea that you get to go out to this place and you get to get taught about a bunch of different ideas.

Do you are you against that being available for everyone? I have a completely different view of what education is. So education in Latin means to lead forth. OK, your idea of education is the new age, which is we're going to have like a buffet line of postmodern ideas and all ideas are treated the same.

I don't believe that at all. College means partnership in Greek and going back to education, you must leave forth towards something. And I think college should lead you towards the good, the true and the beautiful. It should lead you towards things you think it should lead towards beautiful things like worse, like beautiful things like you think that we should go out after college and be like, where's the prettiest thing? If your idea of beauty is just the aesthetic, then you're not having a great college experience.

What's your idea of beauty? My bad. Which is perfected in being. OK, so you really like the Greek ideas and like the Roman ideas of like the the idea of perfection and perfect harmony, because that's like a very Greek and Roman way. Well, it's Western, which is the civilization we currently live in.

OK, but let me finish. Of course, you're right. So the good, the true and the beautiful are the three things that every college student should grapple with. Do you think in this current university, that is what you're currently grappling with, that the focus of your education is enriching yourself to get closer to what is good, what is true and beautiful? See, I don't engage with you on the ideas that good, true and beautiful are something that can be defined and something that can be taught.

Your perfect evidence of why I think college is a scam. Why do you? Wait, I don't. Because, of course, they could be defined and they should be sought after. OK, so you think that something like the beautiful, the perfect, something like goodness can be defined and quantifiable, teachable? Oh, because you're Christian.

I forgot. You guys know there's like a binary. Well, there's a hierarchy, not a binary. There's an ultimate perfection. The ultimate perfection would be that there's a creator who loves you, who made you in his image and loved you so much to come down and take the broken flesh form, live a perfect life, die and rise from the dead that you might live forever.

There is nothing more perfect, good, true or beautiful than that. OK, so I don't really engage with religion like that. But what about just the idea that you get to go to a place, you get taught about different subjects, you get the opportunity.

OK, I'm sorry, because you don't you don't have access to all these things wherever you come from. You get the opportunity to talk to people who know a lot about these different subjects and get to learn about that. You don't think that that should be free or like, first of all, I don't think it should be free. And I don't think that's what education should be or what it once was when it was at its best.

Once you think it was at its best because we have like the Indian golden house of oh, no, I think it's called the Baghdad Golden House of Wisdom. We have the Greek and Roman and they had their whole thing about how you have to learn astrology at the same time as learning your education. We have like so many different points of learning and knowledge. I think people just love to learn. I think learning is inherent to what we want to do with our lives.

So so two thoughts. That is the first line of Aristotle's metaphysics, which is all people seek to know that something within us wants to learn. So to answer your question, when was education at its best? No, that was your you were the one who was like, education is not at their best here. You're like, this is your new age bull. It is so.

But when was it good? I was about to say that you interrupted me again. OK, my bad.

All right. So it was at its best when we had a thing called classical education here in America, specifically around the American founding. Classical education has a prioritization on Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. And the core canon of Greek thinking, which is that there is an abstract distant good, the logos which created the world. Right.

I want to try to find out more about what that is. So you think that education should revolve around ethics, then you think it's well, it's a big part of education. Yes. I think that creating good people should be the number one priority of education. Do you guys think that creating good people is a priority at Cal State Fullerton?

I don't think that that is really a thing that you can achieve, like with appointed. I don't think there's a way to really teach somebody being like being a good person is so hard. And it involves so many different factors.

I could prove to you how we could do it. We're getting a little bit too general with things. The Greeks and the Romans are really like they were they had a lot of beliefs. OK, Plato and Aristotle were not like, let's do the most good. They were not all in agreement about all these different things.

They had a lot of data. They had a teacher student relationship. But let me ask you a question. If do you think people would commit more crimes or less crimes if they knew that a police officer was watching them at all times? I don't think this is what we're talking about. No, you said you cannot teach people good.

I'm asking a question. If somebody thought that somebody was watching their actions, would they behave differently? I think that people behave differently.

Yes. Therefore, if society thought that there was a God that was watching all of their actions, would they behave differently? Do you feel like you behave better when someone is watching?

Absolutely. And in fact, I know you feel like you can't be good without someone there. It's not it's not a matter of you can't be good. Is that you act better if you think that there is somebody watching and judging your actions. This is really unfortunate for you because I want to do good because I think it's better for the people around me, not because someone's watching. Like the ideas of the panopticon.

Well, hold on a second. But if you believe that somebody is always watching your behavior, you'd be less likely to lie, less likely to steal, less likely to cheat. And this is a good question because you're coming after some good faith. Do you think human beings are generally naturally good or generally not so good? Are we are we are we flawed from our birth or are we good or are we a blank slate? See, you're bringing up these Christian ideas of good again. I don't think we really come to the same synthesis on what a good person is. Was Hitler good?

I feel like, again, you're not listening to me. I pretty simple question to the same synthesis about what I think we will, though, is because for me, I think that something like good is, again, the question of ethics. It's not really a question of education. Right.

So you have to be super simple. It's not a trick question for themselves is good is different. Right. So Hitler thought what he was doing was good for his people. We do not see his actions as good because he was pretty awful to a lot of people.

But when we turn things into an ethical question, he may see it as doing good for himself and God, because, yes, a lot of people believe they're doing good for God. Even if that was killing was Hitler doing something objectively wrong? Which thing are you talking about? The concentration camps? I don't like the concentration camps, believe it or not.

But hold on. You don't like. So is that objectively bad? Objectively bad. I do think that hurting people is objectively OK. So now we're believing in that.

So then good. There's a spectrum now. You said objectively bad. So you now just said there's a spectrum. It's not a matter of, well, somebody wanted to do some good for yourself. No, no, no.

Now there's a spectrum. Concentration camp bad. So then let's like get away from that. How about Mother Teresa?

Good. Are you talking about her actions and trying to help the poor? Hundreds of thousands of poor people that were saved in India and Calcutta thanks to her sacrificial work over 30 years. I don't know Mother Teresa like that, but I just said I feel like we've gotten really off track. No, actually, we're talking about this important thing because you're interrupting me. It's kind of our table.

So you can interrupt me. But the fact you can't answer this question shows that college is a scam because if you can't say that Mother Teresa good and mother denied anesthetics to people who are in serious pain because she thought the suffering would bring them closer to God. I think a lot of what she did.

I highly doubt that to be true. OK, but I'll take it. We can't just reference random things and use that because right now we're talking about ideologies. Again, I find that what I consider to be good revolves more around the fact that humans are social creatures. And generally prosocial attitudes of promoting collectivism tends to be it tends to be better for people just because that's in our evolutionary nature. You are a Christian. So you believe that there's a guy watching you and that's what makes you do good.

You're like, I am more likely to be nice, but I want to be. There's a lot of other there's other reasons to do good. I was asking the question that for would you be more or less likely to shoplift if a police officer was next to you in a department store? It's a very simple ethical question.

But how does that make me good or not? That just makes me worried about consequences. No, it makes me worried about consequences. Exactly. If you do not have consequences, consequences does not determine the mark of an intellectual fool is throwing around pejoratives when they don't have wisdom.

Remember that. So the question is this. If you do not believe there's a consequence to your action, why wouldn't you do the action? See, that's again, the ideal ideology of consequentialism.

I don't really subscribe to that. There should be consequences. No, but I think that consequences your actions can exist outside of a vacuum of consequences. Right. We can't make our decisions based on whether or not we think the actions will will lead to a certain outcome because those will always be random. Right. So I revolve more around. We try to do things that we think will promote general prosocial attitudes. I think that that is more likely to get us other than worry. Let me ask you a hypothetical.

I just will tell me a lot. Is pedophilia wrong? Pedophilia I consider to be wrong because it is actively damaging someone else.

Right. But what if they say they're a minor attracted person and it's prosocial to be with a young person? Why are they, you know, what prosocial means like prosocial means there's like prosocial and antisocial behaviors.

It's like a theory of social psychology. Prosocial generally means like working together, socialization. You know, they're socializing with an eight year old. Why is that wrong? OK, that's not socializing and you know it.

Antisocial behavior usually means doing things that are considered rejecting socialization, like rejecting other people, pushing things away, promoting things that other people actively end up considering less. So then should pedophiles go to prison? Pedophiles go to... I do not know what's the best way to handle pedophilia because... No, because how do we know? I don't think that anyone should molest a child, God forbid. I really don't.

Why shouldn't a pedophile go to prison? What? Again, we're getting really off topic. Let's go back to the idea of the good and evil and consequentialism. No, we're talking about college as a scam and you're a perfect example, like one of the best I've ever seen to show the intellectual drivel that is caught on a college campus. OK, because you think that I'm not being taught about the good, the pure. Let's go back to that because I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, the good, the true.

We'll do a couple more minutes. The good, the true and the beautiful. Yes. Right. So you think that that's something that can be quantified, can be taught and not only that, that it should be taught, that we should promote the ideas of good and beauty to other people. OK, but let's remove from that. What about just the idea of... because remember the ancient Greeks and Romans that you love so much, they didn't have the same ideas of God in the same way that we do, but they still... Thank you for saying I'm correct. That was really nice of you.

It's true. So when they wanted to learn, when they sought out learning, when they had schools of learning and all that kind of stuff, a lot of the times they didn't just teach things around ethics. They taught other stuff. They taught astrology. They taught medicine. They taught science. They taught arts. And people wanted to learn that. Do you think that that ability, that experience of going into a place and saying, can you teach me more about this subject? Can I learn? Can I expand my worldview?

Can I get open to different beliefs? Do you think that that should not be paid for or not be compensated? First of all, it should definitely not be paid for. Secondly, it depends if those disciplines are rooted in the pursuit of truth, goodness and beauty. So you think only if they're tied into something that falls in your ideological worldview.

Can I finish? If those disciplines are finished, are rooted in the good, the true and the beautiful, absolutely. Let me give you a hypothetical example.

So if you go, I don't know if this school has one, but if they have some sort of center for like feminist ideology or some sort of... Do they have one here? Then that is not in the pursuit of what is good, true and beautiful. That is in the pursuit of how I can complain and hate men and get a degree and be paid for that. I'm a feminist and I don't hate men. Wait, let me finish. Then tell me what a woman is.

But I'm just saying, again, we're not talking about that. What is a woman feminist? Do you think that people should not have the ability to read the works of feminist writers? Of course you should have the ability. Should it be elevated and taught in an interdisciplinary way and treated as if that's higher education is a different question. Women have written a lot throughout centuries about feminist writers. Do you think that people should not be allowed to study all of these?

Of course, allowed and elevated are two different things. Sure, but no one's forcing anyone here to take feminist studies. Has anyone here been forced to take a class full of drivel? Of course, it's part of the core of any school. That's called general education and we do that so that people get a lot of opportunities to get exposed to different mindsets.

Last question. I take a feminist class and no one there is forcing me to believe in what they're saying. It's just exposing me to these writings, to these ideas. That's what college is about, exposing yourself to different opinions.

We have clarity but not agreement. Last question. You are a self-described feminist. What is a woman?

Why do you want to know? I'm infinitely curious. What's a man? You're looking at one. You would describe a man as having short hair, wearing a little popped collar.

XY chromosomes. Why do you think that that's important to you, what a man and a woman is? How does that define your worldview going forward? Do you treat men and women differently? Of course we should treat men and women differently.

In what way? We should honor and protect women. I want to honor and protect you, man.

Do you not like that? Do you not want to be honored and protected? Women are worthy of protection, of course. But you're also worthy of protection. Don't talk down to yourself like that.

I appreciate that. Can you tell me what a woman is since you're a feminist? I want you to ask yourself, why do you think that it's so important to you that we define man and woman?

How does that change the way you treat people? If a civilization cannot answer the question of what is male and female, that civilization will cease to exist. Is that why the Roman Empire failed because all of a sudden Aristotle or something else?

It's one of the reasons why this civilization is collapsing. Because we send kids to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt that can't answer the most simple biological question. I'll ask you one last time. What is a woman? I know you're not asking this for actual, you're trying to get a gotcha, right?

You're trying to get like a little baby question. But I really want to know why is it so important to you to define things in certain categories? Why does, how does that help your day to day life?

What other categories in the human species are there besides male and female? Well, I just think that categorization is usually unhelpful when we're trying to improve society, right? We want to make things better for people.

We want to improve things. So I have XY chromosomes. Can I give birth?

Um, no, you can't. Bingo. That's why categorization matters. Do men menstruate? What? Do men menstruate?

Okay. Cause you're saying men su-rate and it's like kind of a little, but again, you're saying these things cause you're trying to get a gotcha and I don't want to engage with you like that. Why is it important? You asked the question and I'm telling you because there are big differences between men and women. Men and women are not the same. And if you can't tell me what a woman is, and also you're a feminist, shouldn't you be able to tell me what a woman is? Isn't that probably important to feminism? What is the woman that you're trying to advance and protect? Isn't that integral to, is that the whole feminist project? So a lot of times feminism has to do with the ways that people have treated the female sex on a different way than the male sex has traditionally.

It's all about analyzing that and exposing it. You say that men and women are different and you think that they should be- Do you disagree? Wait, I'm just asking you.

I'm not done yet. And you think they should be treated differently, right? Well, it depends in what context though. Should it be treated differently politically? No. Should it be treated differently under the law? No. Should it be treated differently in societal customs and norms? Yes.

Why? We should open doors for women, for example. Okay, but where do you see these beliefs where you come from? We should protect women if they're under duress. I think that we should protect everyone under duress. We as men have a moral right to stand up for the women in our life, against predators, against rapists, against people that wish them harm. I think we have the right to stand up for everybody in our life.

Of course we do. But why do you see yourself as a man who has to protect and take care of other people? You're placing yourself on this higher ideological standpoint where you gain more power by having someone that you can protect. I find that system and hierarchy of power to be just exhausting to traverse the world through.

Just looking at people as people to protect and people to take care of instead of us working together and trying to improve things together. Do you think there are any differences between a male and female? Are we talking about just the sex right now?

Of course. There's tons of differences just between the male and the female sex. But what's important is how we treat people because of that. So therefore they have different contributions to give to society? I think that everybody has different contributions, man. Just because I'm not popping out kids 24-7 doesn't mean I can't be helpful.

I'm not saying that that's not the case. However, if you can't tell me again what a woman is, and you're not able to answer the question because that is the cheat code against postmodernism. No, because I don't think you even know what postmodernism is or postmodern theory. You want to talk about Herbert Marcuse or Jacques Derrida or Michel Foucault, one-dimensional man? Okay, we can get into all of that.

Do you want to sit down? Don't try to tell me I don't know postmodernism because I have read the pantheon of the garbage that you believe in. But let me complete with this. Postmodernism. I don't want to be exposed myself to different mindsets. I actually know what the literature says and what it means and what it espouses.

But this is why it's the great cheat code because it is the war against… Asking what a woman is is the only way that you can get a gotcha over everybody else. Great conversation. You'll see it online next week. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you. Hey, this is Charlie Kirk, and I know a lot of you have been suffering under the Biden economy.

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andrewandtodd.com. Hi. Just get as close as you can. Close as like this? Yeah. Great. Hi, Mr. Kirk.

How are you? If I'm not wrong, you helped co-author the 1776 report. I'm sorry, just get it close. Yeah. You helped co-author the 1776 report. That's correct. Yeah. Great. Do you still agree with all of the sort of narratives in that? Yeah.

She's trying her best. I was part of a 1776 commission, and she's asking me, do I still agree with the essence of the publication? The answer is yes, of course.

I can't memorize every detail. Of course. So you could grill me on it, but yes, I thought it was a terrific document. And was it up to your personal standards? I heard it got a lot of criticism for not having proper citations, a lot of it being sort of plagiarized from other works of the authors.

How do you respond to that? So I didn't write it. I just happened to be on the committee.

I'd have to lean on Victor Davis Hanson and Dr. Larry Arnn and the other PhDs that primarily pushed forward the publication. Okay. So having a college degree does make you qualified to be on that commission, more so than not having one. Well, I was on the commission without a college degree. What makes you qualified?

I run the largest campus organization in the country and talk to millions of people every single day. And that verifies your historical knowledge? Well, it wasn't just about history. So remember, it was a commission based on reforming education. Education about history primarily, though. Right, but about education reformation. And having spoke on more college campuses than any living person in the last decade, I do think I had something to contribute to the committee about the ails of education. More so than qualified educators? Well, the question is, do they have the same depth and width of the understanding of the problem with American education? So take a PhD. How many campuses have they visited? Likely two or three. Okay.

I visited over 140. And educated? Well, that depends what you mean by educated, because a lot of kids can go to college, they don't get educated. But my role on that committee was to try to contribute what was wrong with American education and potentially some of the solutions that we'd put forward. Again, we barely got out of the gate.

The first day of the Biden administration, they got rid of our committee. Yeah, which I agree with frankly. In terms of the content of the document, right, it was a lot of sort of very elementary understanding of American history. Don't you think it should be a little more nuanced if it's being taught to our students? Super nuanced.

Give me an example. Yeah, so in the document, the natives aren't mentioned a single time, Native Americans, except for in the entirely quoted Declaration of Independence, where they're referred to as savages. Additionally, slavery isn't really talked about unless it's in the section. It's not true. It is mentioned in the document. That's not true.

Someone else should verify that in that case. That's not my understanding. It's not extensively mentioned, but it is mentioned. Don't you think that should be an extensive part of American history? It's a part, but an over-fixation on the sins of the past is not helpful for anybody.

Okay, so that's kind of what I want to talk about, right? An over-fixation compared to an accurate restatement, those are very different things, yeah? Okay, so let's make sure we're clear. Nine out of 13 of the states that formed the Union had already abolished slavery at the time of the Constitution, correct?

Sure. Okay, so it's not fair to say that slavery was fundamental to our founding. In fact, the founding was the greatest anti-slavery moment in human history. It started the chain of events that ended slavery in the industrialized world. It's my understanding that we were one of the last nations to get rid of it, but I might be wrong on that.

Well, we started the process. So as far as the entire country are correct, but in 1777, Vermont abolished slavery, which is a year after the Declaration, and then started the chain of events of northeastern states that continued. There were four holdouts, right, mainly in the South, South Carolina, Georgia, North Carolina, and I believe parts of Virginia. And until the advent of the cotton gin in 1820, slavery was basically on its way out, right? However, it's important to ask the question, can you point to a single founding document, Federalist Papers, Declaration, Constitution, private journals of George Washington, Madison, Hamilton, John Jay, where they talk positively about slavery? They don't talk positively about the practice, but it's, you know, I'm sure there's instances, I'm not necessarily quoting Madison off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's practices where they've talked positively about the institution or the necessity of preserving it for preserving the Union. And so I think that is different to hold on preserving the Union and then the actual immorality of the practice. Those are you would agree to totally different things. Shouldn't it be taught as an ethical dilemma in school?

Shouldn't we focus on how severe slavery was the sum sum of the modern consequences? No problem with that. Yeah, of course. I think you do, though, because you have a problem with CRT. Okay, that's not what CRT, so tell me what CRT is. I believe CRT and the founder of CRT thinks it's the study of... Who is the founder of CRT?

I can't name her, but I know that she's quoted saying her ideology... Kimberly Crenshaw, introduction to critical race theory written in what year? 1999. Why would I know that, Charlie? Okay, but hold on. You can't come up here and start throwing around the stuff and not know the literature, okay? I actually can. And who is her mentor and inspiration?

Why would I need to know that? Derek Bell, who in the early 1990s wrote the prerequisite to the modern CRT regime, but please continue. Okay.

CRT by its founder is designed as the study of past inequalities and their effect on modern institutions, specifically economics. Do you agree with that definition? No. What's your definition? Call everything racist till you control it.

Right, which is why you don't agree with it because you're wrong. You don't know what it means. No, because I've actually read the literature. Have you?

Let me ask you a question. So in the CRT literature, what do they think of white people or whiteness? Who would you like me to quote? Kimberly Crenshaw.

I haven't read Kimberly Crenshaw yet. She says that whiteness is a cancer or a toxin on our society. The concept of whiteness, the racial concept of whiteness. Okay, so what is whiteness? What is whiteness?

Yeah, define it. As Kimberly Crenshaw would probably say, the sort of construction of privilege that comes with being white in this country. Right, so what privilege do you and I as white people have that black people don't have?

Yeah, great question. On applications that are blindly judged, white sounding names are often given the job more, they're paid more. Not true.

In fact, it's the opposite. There's black privilege right now. It's called affirmative action. We're under qualified blacks are taking Asians and white people's places and universities across the country. True or false?

Sure, true. Okay, so yeah, there's black privilege, not white privilege in this country. I actually don't think affirmative action is how we address education inequality. Okay, affirmative action is still largely supported by the CRT regime. Let's get back to CRT, to the essence of it.

Sure. CRT believes in one manifestation of its ideology is black only dormitories. So white people are not allowed. Do you believe in black only dormitories? No, and I don't have to agree with every aspect of an ideology to argue for it. So then what part of CRT do you like?

Because they call whiteness a toxin, black only dormitories. And if you want to talk about like ideological or intellectual sloppiness, the 1619 project. I think it's very sloppy. Okay, we agree.

Nikole Hannah-Jones. I think it's overstated and I think some of the parts are inaccurate. Okay, good. The parts of CRT that I think are most relevant and you know, very factually, you can, you know, what am I trying to say? There's a lot of evidence for them is the fact that previous inequality, such as the institution of slavery, such as our treatment of Native Americans, do in fact affect those populations today. And you were saying before in, you know, inner cities, there's a lot more crime. And a lot of that is because of redlining and other like practices that come directly from the mistreatment of minorities previously in this country. Okay, so I want to make sure I understand. So black people make up 13% of the American population.

Oh, 1350, my favorite. Yes, exactly. Why do they commit 55% of all the murders? Super great question. It's basically a very complex intersection of race and economic status. It's pretty well known that minority people tend to be in a lower economic status because of discrimination. So then why don't poor Asians commit a lot of murders? Also great question. Asian people weren't originally brought to America on purpose like black people and they weren't already present here like natives.

Wait, so black's murder because they were brought here 250 years ago? No, I would like to finish. Okay, just answer. It's very simple.

Black people? I am answering. No, I know, but you're not really.

I am. Asian Americans predominantly immigrate here for work reasons. They come from already wealthy countries. They're already wealthy when they get here. Crime is committed primarily by poor people.

First of all, that's not true. Talk to anybody from Vietnam. Who's that Vietnamese? Anybody? Did you, did your family come here wealthy? No.

Yes and no. Okay. Not wealthy, but not, I'm not saying they come here, okay. The average Vietnamese does not come here wealthy.

I'm not, okay. I perhaps misspoke, not wealthy, but a lot of the, you know, you complain about it all the time. A lot of the immigration from countries that border us, right?

It's, it's sort of desperate people who are of a lower economic status, right? And they're coming here for a better life. So, so two things. Number one, there's been more blacks that have legally immigrated to this country in the last 30 years that were ever brought as slaves. That's number one. Number two, you still haven't answered the question.

I'm trying to. Why? It's a complicated answer. Black people are only 13% of the population, yet they commit 55% of the murders. Why? Because black people tend to be in lower economic statuses because of, because of CRT. This is fine.

This is great. Basically. So you think that poverty equals crime. I think that it's highly correlated and there's a lot of studies on that.

This is where we disagree. What an insult to the working poor in this country. So why do you think black people commit more crime, Charlie Kirk? Well, first of all, so how, let me ask you, let me ask you a question as my answer. What percentage of blacks have a father around when they're raised?

I'm not sure. 20%. So 80% of blacks do not have a stable father around. That is the most predictable way to end up in prison, end up as a murderer or a criminal. It's not a racism problem. It's not a white supremacy problem. It's a fact that black fathers impregnate women and they don't stay around with the women that they have impregnated. Charlie Kirk, do you think that that happens more in the black community compared to others?

It's threefold. Number one, we subsidize single motherhood. Number two, it's culture. It's accepted in the black community and it should be. Oh, it's culture. Okay. Okay.

Don't take my word for it. Read Thomas Sowell's own book on how black culture allows single motherhood to continue into a nanny state type practice. Seventy five percent of black youth are raised out of father in the home.

Seventy five percent. Is that a bigger problem or not a bigger problem than whiteness, white privilege or white supremacy? They should all be addressed and they're all related.

Okay. How is a white person to blame for the fact that seventy five percent of blacks. Oh, individual white people aren't at all to blame.

Okay, we agree. So but wouldn't it be more like smarter to be like, hey, that this is not about systemic racism, like stop impregnating your women and abandoning them? Well, the way to incentivize not impregnating women and abandoning them is increasing access to health care, into housing, into everything that we know increase.

So we've done that. So we have spent thirty trillion dollars on the social welfare system since nineteen sixty five. Black people are poorer and the single motherhood went from twenty five percent to now seventy five to eighty percent. So the more money we've spent on black America, the less fathers we have, because black women divorced black men and married the government. And do you think that's a problem inherent to black people?

No, it's not. It's happening now in white communities and Hispanic communities. It's just the worst in black America. And why do you think that is?

Why? Why is it the worst in black America? There's also a cultural problem. There is. It's just that black people are.

No, no. Let me ask you a question. The average music that a black person in Compton is listening to, is it about contemplating the good, the true and the beautiful? Or is it about being a gang banger and trying to get as much money and sleep with as many girls as you can? I would actually like to think that I would be offended by that. Do you think the average black kid in Compton is listening to Beethoven or some sort of gangster rap music that glorifies gangster culture?

Silly question. Rap wasn't created to glorify gangster culture. So even though there is rap, I'm sure you're dodging the question because I'm sure they're listening to rap. Okay. So you think rap music makes them leave their mom? No, I'm not. Do you think the cultural expectation in black America is that you stay with the woman that you impregnate?

Within black communities? I can't speak on that. Okay. The answer is no, it's not.

It's not expected. Okay. And do you think that- Hold on. In white Anglo-Saxon Protestant communities, it's a fact. Hold on. In upper middle class white communities- Upper middle class. Say that part louder.

Yeah. Upper middle class white Anglo-Saxon Protestant communities, if you impregnate a woman, you are looked down upon and we do not think highly of you if you abandon the woman that you impregnate. That's a cultural difference. Has nothing to do with money.

Has nothing to do with anything except norms. And the norms that have infected black America are destroying it from within. We need more fathers, not less. We need more dads around and less drag queen story hour.

We need more young blacks to be able to look up to role models that are not leaving all the time and are not just saying, hey, I impregnated her. So be it. It's a toxin. And if we don't address that as the root cause, oh, it's white supremacy. It's injustice. It's economics.

We're dancing around the core of the issue. Hey, everybody. Charlie Kirk here. As you know, Mike Lindell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life. After he invented the world's best pillow, he created the famous Giza dream sheets. They are the best sheets you'll ever sleep on. The best night's sleep just got even better. For a limited time, you'll get a queen size set of fifty nine ninety eight king size for just sixty nine ninety eight. The lowest prices in history. Mike and the my pillow employees continue to be canceled by big box stores and attacked by the media.

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That is my pillow dot com promo code Kirk. I guess what I'm saying is right and you've perfectly actually laid out the dichotomy here. It is a fact, obviously, that black people disproportionately commit crime in this country.

No one's arguing that. But you either believe that that is due to a complex intersection of social, economic and like leftover effects from previous inequalities. Or you believe that that is an inherent trait to the race. No, I don't, because they weren't that way in the nineteen forties and fifties.

Black America was one of the most peaceful, flourishing, fastest growing economically communities in the country. It's not genetic. You're trying to point something on me that I don't believe. It's that you do believe that it's not genetic.

So you do think CRT is correct? Hold on a second. In the nineteen forties and nineteen fifties, black America was prosperous and was on pace to be richer and wealthier than white America. More dads were staying with the women that they were with.

There was monogamy. What changed? You're supporting my argument. No, hold on.

But answer the question. What changed? Did America get more racist since nineteen fifties and nineteen fifties? I would argue there were more racist policies passed. There were more policies dedicated to lining off those communities and pushing them into poor housing and poor schools.

Wait a second. In the nineteen fifties, Jackie Robinson had not even broken the color barrier. We had Jim Crow laws.

We hadn't passed the Civil Rights Act and we had passed the Voting Rights Act. Yet blacks were better in the nineteen fifties per capita than they are today. So we have become less racist. We've passed more anti racist laws and given more stuff. And blacks are worse than they were 70 years ago.

Why? So you're equating here institutional and social racism. Social racism was certainly worse in the nineteen fifties. I'm sure everyone would agree. But institutional racism occurs when policies are passed against people, which can increase over time.

And you're not being intellectually honest. You know that there was black only drinking fountains in the nineteen fifties. We don't have those any anymore. Well, we're bringing it back with black only dormitories. But we had we had we had, for example, in the in the antebellum south in the nineteen fifties, we had white only communities white by law. We got rid of that with the Civil Rights Act.

But it didn't. Unfortunately, we look around. The numbers speak for themselves. Black youth are less like the fathers. They're not doing as well as far as economically.

They commit more crime. So something changed. And our argument is what changed is three things.

Number one, the imposition of the Great Society Project by Lyndon Baines Johnson of spending 30 trillion dollars since nineteen sixties on section eight housing, on welfare, on all sorts. As I said, that young black women married the government and they divorced young black men. And then we also have had, as Thomas Sowell and as Clarence Thomas would say, the soft bigotry of law expectations. And we have been afraid to get to the root of the issue or even speak about it because we don't be called a racist. So who what is imposing those low expectations? It's part of it is like white academic culture.

I'll give you an example. I'm not saying you believe this, but Merrick Garland, the attorney general of the United States, has come out and said having an idea to vote is racist. That is code for saying black people are too dumb to get a voter I.D.. You're doing it again. You're you're simplifying a very nuanced, complex argument from the real people who are making it.

Is voter I.D. racist? Obviously not, Charlie. All right. You want to know where the argument comes from?

I can eloquently tell you eloquently. Tell me why voter I.D. is is racist. Certain policies in southern states were proposed that would like I think the quote from the person who decided the case was with surgical precision, target the times where black people were voting and make it like illegal or harder for them to get that to come at that time. And then they were targeting the type of I.D.

that black voters had and making that specific type of I.D. illegal. That is racist.

Perfectly fair. How does that impact today saying that every citizen, if you need an idea to vote, just that aside, why is that right? Why is it racist?

Because we have to have you know, obviously humans are making those decisions, right? And so if there is still institutional racism and people in power that are racist, we can't trust those institutions to make those decisions. What institutional racism do we have in this country right now?

Well, you just named it 1350. Well, affirmative action needs to happen because there is not that many minorities in these higher educations or higher education institutions. OK, so you're being clear, which is then you lower standards. No, affirmative action always does. Affirmative action lowers standards by definition.

There's no affirmative action was introduced. I'm not arguing for it. Were you asking me why it was introduced or no, I'm saying you agree. That's why it was introduced. I agree why it was.

I don't think it ever should have been. But yes, right. But there is institutional inequality. Yes. Well, I wouldn't even use the word inequality. I mean, I don't love looking at it that way.

But of course, white people generally are richer than black people in this country, richer and more represented in politics and schools. Yes. Somewhat.

Yes. And why do you think that is, Charlie? Well, hold on a second. Let's let's ask the question here. Represented how? So I mean, look at Congress.

Hold on a second. Are white people represented fairly in the National Basketball Association? Who cares what political power does the national fair representation? Listen, I think that it should by law, half of the NBA should be white. Great.

Fine. And the product would suck. Lobby for it. Because blacks are much better at basketball than we whites are. What political power does the NBA have?

A lot, actually. The NBA reaches millions of people every day. They have slogans that people internalize. In fact, if the NBA had no political power, why would they have to wear Black Lives Matter on all their jerseys? Why would they tell?

Why would politicians try to get their endorsements all the time? The NBA is more powerful than Congress in some ways of shaping the minds. But if you want fair representation, just to be clear, then why would you not be against whites by law being half of the National Basketball Association right now? Sure.

Black people make up 88 percent of the NBA. Do it. Great. Who cares?

I don't care. I'm saying. Right.

So here's my point. All right. I have a shot, everybody. Please listen. If we could play for the Lakers, I hope. I'll come to your games.

I'll do it. The point is this is that merit should triumph over all, which is awesome. OK, so merit should triumph. We agree. OK. OK, Charlie, do you think black people are not as smart or absolutely not perfect?

Perfect. So they should, in theory, then be equally represented in positions of power. So have you ever read discrimination and disparities by Thomas Sowell? Do you only read Thomas Sowell? You've quoted him like three times. I haven't read that. I read a lot more than Thomas Sowell, but I'm happy to.

Thomas Sowell is the only intellectual with the courage to go after these core issues of why black America has fallen behind and why no one actually has studied it. So let's just give a great example. When you don't have a father in the home, the amount of words that a child hears goes down by 60 to 70 percent. The amount of words that a child I don't know if your mother or not or plan to be OK. No, just it's it's an important point. The amount of words that an 18 month year old hears is highly predictive of IQ verbal development. OK, so that's simple.

When you don't have a dad in the home, the mom is overwhelmed and there's just less interaction with the child. That's all fine. OK, so we agree. I'm just saying that is not because of racism.

No, that's fine. No, she's I know what you meant. But you have a. All of a sudden, they hear thousands of more words a day and they're they're already they're like way further ahead of a single motherhood, a single mother raising a child. That's not racism. So dads are good. Yes.

Great. OK. My question, I'm saying that's actually answer most of the questions that you might have about why black America is falling behind. OK, but because their dads don't stay around and that sort of gets you to reconcile your own beliefs. And if that's true, which is fine, that's true.

We can say that's true. You either believe that that has social and economic causes or you believe that, oh, black culture is just worse. No, there is another thing to think.

No, I was very clear right now. Black culture is being held captive by influences, songs, which influences. I mean, Nicki Minaj, Cardi B. OK, Nicki Minaj is causing dads to leave the home. I don't think that's a good role model for 18 year old black girls. I don't I don't think that songs that are talking about like glorifying wet female genitalia is exactly.

I don't know which one wrote that song, which one was Ben Shapiro. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But is is but and but by the way, the role models of the nineteen forties and fifties for black America were completely different. So it is a representation issue.

Hold on a second representation. It's who do you get your art from? It's what values are they putting forward? It's the question of every day, for example, more times than not, black politicians will lament the condition of America. It's systemically racist.

It's terrible. What does that do to a 14 year old black kid if you just find that you hear that everything is rigged against you? Instead, they should be saying, hey, there might be some barriers, but if you believe in yourself enough, you can achieve in this country.

It creates a form of social conditioning, high expectations. That's not my argument. You know whose argument that is? Barack Obama's.

I don't necessarily know. Barack Obama said number one, we need more fathers in the home. This is when Barack Obama Barack Obama is a liberal.

I don't care what he's got to say. OK, but Barack Obama. And secondly, he said that we can't keep telling our black youth that you can't succeed in this country.

Anybody can succeed in this country. And Obama was right when he said that Obama was correct when he said that we need to change the story we're telling black America, which is fine. I've never heard any teacher look at a black person and say, oh, you can't succeed because of racism.

Hold on a second. But what is the embedded message of all the propaganda saying it's systemically racist? You're going to run into racist employee employers that they're going to discriminate against you.

It creates this heaviness of why even try? By the time college students get to college, they've experienced all that. They don't need to be told. You think that the average I'm curious, you think that that the average black student at this university experiences like active daily racism?

I'd be curious. I don't know. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's maybe it's as bad as it was in the antebellum South. I'm not saying that, obviously. OK, I did say social racism improved. I'm saying institutional racism is still present and that's what's causing lower outcomes for minority communities. Do you do you do you think the reason why only 20 to 25 percent? It depends. We don't know the number. It's just a range per year.

So one in four of black youth have a stable father around. What would you say is the big why is that the why is that the reason a complex intersection of social and economic reasons which are outlined in CRT? OK, thank you for the dialogue. Thank you. OK. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us is always freedom at Charlie Kirk dot com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to Charlie Kirk dot com.