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No Reason To Hide Interview Part 2

Running to Win / Erwin Lutzer
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September 30, 2022 1:00 am

No Reason To Hide Interview Part 2

Running to Win / Erwin Lutzer

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September 30, 2022 1:00 am

We live in a divided world where victimhood has become a path to power. Should equal outcomes shape our public policies? In this interview, Pastor Erwin Lutzer discusses a biblical response to Critical Race Theory and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion with his friend from The Moody Church, Pastor Larry McCarthy. In Christ, we can pursue Christian unity. 

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Victimhood has become a path to power mandates are used by tyrannical authorities as control mechanisms and critical race theory is tearing apart the fabric of our nation, especially in our schools today more in a series about the mind of a once great country.

Stay with us from the Moody Church in Chicago. This is running to win with Dr. Erwin lutes are whose clear teaching helps us make it across the finish line with Larry McCarthy here is pastor lutes or to discuss further. His new book, no reason to hide standing for Christ and a collapsing culture will this is pastor lutes or thank you so much for joining us today for this special edition of running to win were discussing my new book, no reason to hide standing for Christ in a collapsing culture and with me today in the studios. Larry McCarthy, a member of the pastoral staff here at the Moody church now. Larry is an African-American and Larry your parents came to the Moody Church in the 1960s and they were not universally welcomed where they all know that there was a unique time for them and for the church.

My parents are. They came to saving faith because they attended a Wednesday night Bible study down and sank in the gospel was preached. They heard the word God touch their hearts and they responded and so they wanted to come back to hear more of the word and I started to bring us, but the congregation wasn't universally accepting of a black family coming to Moody church and remain people get up and move when they sat down in some places in the sanctuary are they to ask questions like, don't they have any churches where you live and yeah and that of course is a very sad part of our history by looking at it more optimistically.

This brings a smile to my face and I'm sure it brings a smile to your face as well. Your parents first of all, they did not allow that to keep them from faithfulness at the Moody church. The second thing I want to say is this, they never dreamed that someday they would have a son who would be on the pastoral staff at Moody church deleted it. I doubt if it was not the and ambition them that I had either but out.

I can tell you one quick story oasis in the sanctuary as kids and pass notes that was the high-tech of the day. We didn't have cell phones, you pass notes and after one of the services. This gray-haired lady walks up to me and Oh I'm in trouble she's seen as passing notes and she said this to me pastor you when you're in the sanctuary you want to listen to what God has to say because you never know you could be preaching here one day.

She said that I had you know that that came back to me the first time that I had the privilege of preaching here in the pulpit of the Moody church but I remember that while I was just grateful she wasn't going to rat me out to my parents. I think I didn't think about it much after that that she didn't immediately to my parents what you've been a great blessing to the pastoral staff here and to the whole congregation.

And of course you preached here many times now and so were so grateful now were going to be discussing the issue of race specifically where going to try to cover chapters for five and six of my book so we have a very very broad waterfront that we're going to try to cover and so were just going to touch some high points here, but before we begin to discuss the chapter about diversity, equity and inclusion which I maintain actually works against us.

When it comes to race relations that is not helpful. I want to say that several months ago I attended a seminar taught by a young black pastor on why it is so difficult to talk about race and I found his seminar very helpful and one of the points he made. Larry was this, we don't have to agree on everything, to celebrate our unity in Jesus Christ yes and you and I of course are going to agree on most things, the important things of course we may have some disagreements but at the same time we celebrate our unity in Jesus Christ and I'm going to point out later that time. Indeed, the ethnicities, even in the New Testament still remained despite the fact that they were all members of the body of Jesus Christ there something else I want to say as we begin, and that is this.

As you know, and you've read the book, Larry. I believe the diversity, equity and inclusion actually works against race relations. As I've already emphasized, but at the same time. I know that there are many people who believe that it is very important to level the playing field so to speak. Yes, so it's with that that we begin and that one of the points I make is this the diversity, equity and inclusion actually causes us to divide. We begin to see each other in oppositional terms and as a result of that, you have two categories of people you have the oil pressed and you have the oppressors based on skin color but furthermore, even before we get to that point the governor of Oregon suspended requirements for students to demonstrate writing, math, and proficiency in high school and he says that he does this to aid black, Latino, Asian and Pacific islanders and the he wants to make sure that they pass and so standards are actually lowered your response to that Larry that was I this this is a much-needed discussion. First of all, but the conclusion that diversity, equity and inclusion where we are now has evolved into a compromise of competency. I think that's a very cogent argument.

A very needful thing to say, the perspective that I would offer, however, is that there were in a time in this country certainly were there were intentional acts of discrimination, particularly in the employment field where there were certain strata certain job certain positions that people of color just weren't going to be offered and so a lot of the early affirmative action responses either from the courts or from state legislatures were in response to those deliberate acts of discrimination. I think you do a very good job of saying now but look how it's evolved that when we talk about these buzzwords of diversity and equity and inclusion. It comes with this compromise of competency and in a way that it's victimhood is now a path to power but you've put that very clearly and by the way your perspective there. I receive that because I think that's a very interesting and necessary way to look at this. This is really the pendulum going off the deep end and you put it that way.

People have described it as the bigotry of low expectations and it is actually an intentional way to avoid the question of why don't minorities do as well. As others, well probably is the school system.

Probably it's because of the home because of a number of different factors. But what we must do is to not lower the standard admin with the intention of saying that this is going to level the playing field. Now and you know we have to hurry we still have two other chapters and were barely getting into this one, but I read the book white fragility and I have to say my reaction was very negative because what it does is it judges people on the color of their skin and not the content of their character.

It is totally against what Martin Luther King taught because he taught. Let's not judge people by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. This does the opposite. It speaks against whiteness.

If you are white you are Anil Presser and if you deny it. It only proves the point. So what is whiteness while I read directly from the book. It is a belief in individualism, capitalism, democracy, meritocracy. The book goes on to say that we should be less white, less ignorant, well, how do we relate to that, I believe, frankly, and I think you'll agree with me Larry that it's possible to believe in individualism and capitalism, democracy and meritocracy without being racist.

That I agree. The other thing that we need to recognize is that there is in this book. The idea that we should have equal outcomes and and that is a problem because if you have a family. For example, with four children. If you give them freedom even they are not going to have equal outcomes. Yes there are those who are going to exceed more than others.

The only way that you can have equal outcomes is by tyranny where you mandated and it comes down from the government or whatever and that becomes the basis upon which everything is supposed to come out equal while asked the people in Russia and China and see how that is worked out for them. The other thing is and I'm going to hurry here because I'm a summarize of course, and that, as I discussed what happens to truth is, you know, Karl Marx believed the truth was that which is believed and promoted by the oppressors. So there is no fixed truth and what this leads to is disaster is because how I even point out I mean if you can believe this, but in Princeton University they are teaching that mathematics is white because it insists on one answer to mathematical problems. I have to confess I just thought that was comical if it wasn't such a serious topic are I almost just wanted to laugh at that section that suggesting that mathematics because it has absolute answers that somehow white mathematics and that approximation in mathematics your illustration about the bank was great about how much you have in the bank. You want an exact amount or do you it's about this this amount I have my truth when I go to the bank and they have their truth when they go to the bank and so what happens is a total collapse of rationality as a matter fact it's in that context where actually quote someone is saying there is some ideas that are so absurd that only intellectuals believe them but absurdity. No longer is an argument against anything in our culture. Sometimes the more absurd an idea is well that oftentimes is a basis upon which it is promoted, it is almost promoted because of its absurdity. Dr. Luther would it be fair to say that as a culture we have just abandoned the pursuit of truth.

Yes, exactly. I point Larry, I know we must hurry, but I want to give this illustration and it goes back to what we're talking about last time where the self has triumphed. If if you're lost in the city and you have a compass you know which direction north is, therefore, you know which direction South is East and West okay yes and you know where you're going. Let's suppose however you have a magnet in your backpack and that magnet always causes the compass to point to you.

Now you have no idea whether you're going in circles. You have no idea whether you're going east, west, north, south, encompassing the same area and that's where society is today because no longer do we have a true North. Yes, we've abandoned the Bible and therefore we have even abandoned sanity yes and 2+2 no longer always is equal to 49 can be pointing this out next time when we talk about sexuality okay and that's going to be our topic. So let's hurry on the next chapter I have is still about the racial issue and that means we must cover this very quickly. I answer, among other things, the question of what do we say when we are told that America is illegitimate because after all this land was stolen from the Indians. Larry since I've written the book I have to tell you a story all right. I was talking to a woman at a political event, and she told me that she was in a cab and the cabdriver was from a different country that did not have freedom. I won't mention the country and he began to criticize American civil, you know, this country was stolen from the Indians so she said why did you come here. Well, he said it gives me freedom it gives me the opportunity to succeed up so so here you have it reminds me of a Muslim demonstration in which I once saw a sign that said, we will use the freedoms of the Constitution to destroy the Constitution so you have people coming here now. The bottom line is simply this, we must recognize that all countries are birthed in war and land grabs obviously atrocities were done to the Indians. Yes, at the same time, there were people like Jonathan Edwards ministering to them saying that they should be educated giving them blankets, giving them food you had Christians who understood that we had to be kind to them.

But you know, one of the things that happens with the left is this they never compare America with other countries because if you do, America comes out looking good and I quote a professor at one of our universities, who says she wants all of her students to be depressed because America stole the land from the Indians. Now there are all kinds of things that God is going to have to sort out in the day of judgment.

Yes, but at the same time, we recognize that America was founded on some very important principles and as a result of that has risen in the world in a place of prominence and people are willing to sacrifice life and limb to get here. If we're that racist and if we are that evil, and if we are illegitimate. Why are they doing it. I like the illustrations that you use in the book, and certainly America has some dark parts of its past in its history. America didn't invent slavery as you so eloquently point out when we ended it and I think that's the thing that we have to push towards now is that the ideals of the Constitution and the hope that it provides in terms of the freedoms and liberties that our system of government provides. I want an apology for addressing strain on this issue of critical race theory because I thought it was a very balanced discussion, you aren't suggesting that we should never ask the question as to whether or not something has a disparate impact on one ethnicity or another you never say that we shouldn't ask the question, but what you say is that critical race theory does blot the real issue and that's the issue of sin.

All my Larry, the clock is running down.

I have to say this that critical race theory.

There's no problem. Obviously, we should teach slavery and what happened in America's history.

But we have to do it in a balanced way. We also have to point out that we've come a long way. Amen we have to recognize that America is always going to be imperfect, but the problem with critical race theory is where one group is blamed and the other is exonerated when all of us are sinners and if I might put it in a simple sentence that I write in my book.

The problem with critical race theory is that it keeps tearing apart. What Jesus died to bring together yes critical passage of Scripture. Colossians chapter 3 verse 11 in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, and they had their differences yes bond or free Scythian barbarian, but they are one in Christ is so you have these various ethnicities and Greeks in the stopping Greeks and barbarians didn't stop being barbarians, but yet they had a unity in Jesus Christ and I discussed this in the book I give examples. Also from the differences between the Arabs and the Christian Jews regarding the land as so what we must do is to simply see all of this in perspective. Now, Larry. We were supposed to cover the next chapter, but I'm going to leave that for next time. And that is regarding propaganda. We are going to be taking that very quickly and how language is used today in propaganda, it's very important for us to understand that, but for today the most important thing to emphasize is that we actually do not have a skin problem as much as we have a sin problem. Yes sir. And the answer is to come to the foot of the cross together and then ask ourselves the question what can we do together to improve our neighborhoods to bring about biblical justice and to move forward yes and that's the question that we have to answer. And as long as we think to ourselves that we must divide is critical race theory tells us without any hope of any reconciliation yes will never get anywhere. Well, I'm so glad that you joined us today for running to win that I want to encourage you, once again, as I did last time. Call your friends invite them to listen, because next time were going to be speaking briefly about propaganda how language is used in propaganda but I'm also going to be asking and answering the question what should parents say to a child comes home from school as his mom and dad. I think I'm transgender. What do you say to them. These are the kinds of questions I answer in the book no reason to hide standing for Christ in the collapsing culture and for gift of any amount and we like to emphasize this, this book will be yours. And if you get your copy of no reason to hide directly from the Moody church media you'll receive a unique invitation to a live town hall, conference call, and all have an opportunity to share my heart with you about what is going on in the culture about how we should respond to the culture and how we can represent Christ wherever he has planted us and I need to tell you also that the book no reason to hide at the end of every chapter. I give an example of someone who stood against the culture someone whom we honor because no matter how difficult the culture may become. We need people with the courage to say, as Martin Luther did.

Here, we stand we can do no other. My desire is that we will represent Jesus Christ. Well, wherever he has planted us no matter where you are today. You can be blessed of God. If you live with your convictions and gladly accept the consequences. So next time propaganda and the sexual revolution. Until then, we'll see you next time Esther Erwin Moser with Larry McCarthy discussing no reason to hide standing for Christ in the collapsing culture. Next time, unwilling to win how government propaganda is redefining language itself as people groups showed their slogans and means rather than work together.

The Bible says woe to those who call evil good, that's only half the job.

The other half is to take that which is good and call it evil. You speak about how the Christian left is compromising the gospel. The acceptance of same-sex marriage buying into the whole LGBT Q community and doing so Larry under the guise of love. Love can be evil when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden. They didn't stop loving they just started to love all the wrong things, lovers of pleasure, lovers of money, lovers of themselves, teach, and this generation has to be told and to understand the love and truth are not opposites, they are not enemies so just because something is loving in the eyes of the world doesn't make it right here in is lovesick Jesus that you keep my commandments. Don't miss this crucial third program in a series of four book no reason to hide will be sent as our gift to you when you give a gift of any amount for support running to win.

Just call us at 1-888-218-9337 that's 1-888-218-9337 online go to RTW offer.com that's RTW offer.com or write to running to win Moody church 1635 N. LaSalle Boulevard Chicago, IL 60614. This is Dave McAllister running to win is sponsored by the Moody church


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