This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. and from the power of Satan unto God. That they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Welcome to Passion for Christ. This is Russ East, your host. Wanting to thank. Kevin McGehey for the instrumental music that he provides for our program.
I want to introduce our testimony for today is going to be from Josh Hatch. And you'll hear A good chunk of this testimony.
However, to hear the entirety of it, just go to the website called Meet the X Mormons. EX Mormons. Meet the X Mormons. A friend of mine, Rob Savolka, has put this together on YouTube or Facebook. And so take a look at that and be encouraged that people are becoming saved out of the Mormon Church.
So now with that, let's begin today's testimony. My name is John. And I grew up in West Valley City, Utah. I was raised LDS, and this is my story. Um I guess before I begin even talking about any of it, I want to preface and to emphasize how much I love the Mormon people.
They're my people. They're my family. They're my friends. They're my neighbors. They're my coworkers.
They're the people that I interact with on a daily basis. And To leave That culture and to leave that group was exceptionally difficult. I mean, I went through a stage kind of in high school where I didn't really want to be part of it anymore. I didn't really like the some of the cultural aspects of Mormonism. Um So, I and as part of that, I also had a whole bunch of different questions.
And when I would ask the questions, I was constantly told Like, one, you shouldn't be questioning. You shouldn't have those questions. And then, two, When I was asked, what are you doing secretly? That is making you question these things? What's the underlying issue as to why you're having some of these questions?
And I mean, so I learned to shut my mouth fast. I didn't want people thinking that I was doing something that I wasn't doing, or that I was somehow sinning by asking questions. And so I did everything I possibly could. To be the perfect LDS person, I was seminary council president at one point at our high school. My dad was a bishop, and his dad was a bishop, and my grandfather on my mom's side was a bishop.
I am, as far as I am aware, the very first person on both sides of my family to leave the LDS Church. and then to become Christian. Oh. And to leave at all. I don't know of anyone on both sides of my family that have ever left before, all the way up to Brigham Young and uh the originals So Anyway, that's kind of l a little bit of the preface of my story.
And really it's It's the same story that all Christians experience. It's the same story that all of us. get to Get to live through or are blessed to live through, it kind of just depends. Where we come to the realization that we are broken sinners in need of a Savior. And we We can't do it ourselves.
We can't fix our own problems. We can't find our own solutions even without the help of God. who is just and merciful and kind and full of grace. Abundant in mercy. And uh anyway, so kind of going back to high school I remember my friend saying, Um One time she asked me the question.
She said, Do you really think I will be denied the kingdom of heaven because I've had a cup of coffee? And I was kind of teasing her a little bit because she was bringing her Starbucks into high school. And that kind of really got me thinking. That was the first time that I can really remember going. Wow.
Now that's kind of interesting. I have my Diet Coke and yet you wouldn't be able to go through the temple and you wouldn't be able to be considered an active Mormon because you had this cup of coffee. Um Anyway, so that that was just another one of those little tiny moments in time. Um And I'm gonna be a little bit all over the place as I'm kind of remembering it because living in the Christian life, there's so much freedom now. That I don't really think about my past life as much.
Like that, I just. Live. in the grace of Christ and that's how I live every day. Um So, going back even farther, the very first time that I heard That the end goal of Mormon theology is to become a god. and to have your own planet.
was when I was in um 13 or 14 years old, and someone just said it in passing at a Sunday school. And that threw me off. Really bad. I thought I didn't know, I'd never heard that up to that point in my life. And Then they said that God had a God and I who had a God, who had a God, and it was this never-ending cycle.
I mean, I could not comprehend in my head how that would even I remember going home. And sitting on my bed and just feeling so overwhelmed because I thought, what is the beginning? Like, if God who had a God who had a God who had a God who had a God. I mean, if that just kept going, where, how, like, what's the purpose of any of anything that we believe at all? And it just felt like I was going through this abyss or this black hole.
And I kind of remember just thinking, okay, well. Yeah. Is someday we're going to probably be sitting around the table with our great-great-grandfather gods, and maybe he'll be able to tell me how all of this kind of worked out. And when I would ask my parents about that, they said, Well, someday you'll understand.
Someday you'll be able to go through the temple and you'll be able to figure it out yourself. Um And I grew up in a very loving family, a very, very staunch LDS family. I kind of in in my rebellious teenager years, I called my parents the um Mormon extremists, because we didn't only have the word of wisdom, we also had the hatch word of wisdom, is what my mom called it. And in our house, we didn't really have soda, we didn't really have. Um A lot of y the Less healthier choices of food, because my mom was like, no, we are going to be healthy.
So that's when I started drinking Coke was when I was in high school. I was like, caffeine, this is where it's at. And that was how I rebelled in high school, I guess, I added my caffeine. Oh Man. Anyway, throughout all of that period of time, there's just these little tiny moments.
where there was those questions. And Anyway, I went through some rough times in my senior year. And I decided that what I really needed to do is just have a reset in my life. I'd heard more about some of our beliefs, like Joseph Smith taking a rock and putting it in a hat. That was kind of upsetting.
I mean, I heard it just very briefly and kind of didn't really understand. Like what was going on. I didn't know the full details of what that was until long after the Now after I'd left For for those that don't know, we're So yeah, so for those who don't know The way that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. Um Was that he had these gold plates that were given to him by an angel Roni, who appeared and said, You need to go to the hill Kimora and. This is where these plates are going to be.
And so, in a very summarized version of the story, he ends up translating the golden plates. The We'll be right back for the rest of today's testimony. Please know we at Utah Partnerships for Christ have been planting seeds of the gospel in Utah for over 24 years. We welcome any questions you may have and invite you to visit our website to obtain a list of words and definitions that would help you understand how Mormons think and how to be able to better witness to your friends who belong to the Mormon Church. That website is www.upfc.org.
That's upfc.org. We'll be right back. Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. and from the power of Satan unto God.
that they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Or even fathom when I remember going. Home and sitting on my bed and just feeling so overwhelmed because I thought, what is the beginning? Like, if God who had a God, who had a God, who had a God, who had a God. I mean, if that just kept going, where, how, like, what's the purpose of any of anything that we believe at all?
And it just felt like I was going through this abyss or this black hole. And I kind of remember just thinking, okay, well. Yeah. is someday we're gonna probably s be sitting around the table with our great-great-grandfather gods and maybe he'll be able to tell me how all of this like kind of worked out. And when I would ask my parents about that they said, well someday you'll understand.
Someday you'll be able to go through the temple and you'll be able to figure it out yourself. Um And I grew up in a very loving family, a very, very staunch LDS family. I kind of in in my rebellious teenager years, I called my parents the um Mormon extremists, because we didn't only have the word of wisdom, we also had the hatch word of wisdom, is what my mom called it. And in our house, we didn't really have soda, we didn't really have. Um A lot of y the Less healthier choices of food because my mom was like, no, we are going to be healthy.
So that's when I started drinking Coke was when I was in high school. I was like, caffeine, this is where it's at. And that was how I rebelled in high school, I guess, I had my caffeine. Um Man. Anyway, throughout all of that period of time, there's just these little tiny moments where there's those questions.
And Anyway, I went through some rough times in my senior year. And I decided that what I really needed to do is just have a reset in my life. I'd heard more about some of our beliefs, like Joseph Smith taking a rock and putting it in a hat. That was kind of upsetting. I mean, I heard it just very briefly and kind of didn't really understand.
Of what was going on. I didn't know the full details of what that was until long after the. Uh after I'd left. For for those that don't know, So yeah, so for those who don't know The way that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. Um Was that he had these gold plates that were given to him by an angel Moroni who appeared and said, You need to go to the hill Kimorah and.
This is where those plates are going to be. And so, in a very summarized version of the story, he ends up translating the golden. Placed. that then becomes the Book of Mormon. It's the compiled works of the people of the Americas whom in LDS theology they believe that Jesus appeared to.
Uh And that's the stories of the Book of Mormon. And so The way that he translated it was by taking a seer stone or a rock. And then putting it in a hat, and then he would put his face up to the hat with the plates down below. Um which the plates were in Reform Egyptian. is what he said.
So far, no college, university, professor, or any. anyone of any degree has said that Reformed Egyptian is a actual language. In fact, that was one of the cool things about when I became Christian is that I knew that we could hear prayers in Greek, we could hear prayers in Aramaic and in Hebrew. But why would we not be able to hear prayers in Reformed Egyptian? It's a semantic language, it's made up.
But I'm getting ahead of myself again. Um See, where was I? The Oh, yeah, and so anyway, I decided in high school that I was going to do a reset for my life. I was just gonna, I had so many questions about the church that I didn't want to voice out anymore, that I didn't really want to talk to anyone about. I just wanted to appear like I was doing everything that I possibly could.
And so I decided to go on a mission because that's the next expectation. That's what you're supposed to do right after high school. Young men who are at the age of 18 now. are expected as a priesthood requirement to go on a mission. And so I did.
I went on my mission, it's kind of this expectation thing. uh to fulfill my parents' expectations to try to just figure out what I actually believed. Um I had experienced other Christian churches through my organ playing at Milan High School. I played the organ for a Roman Catholic church. I was there every Saturday Mass playing for them, and I would listen to what the priest was saying.
That also was against my parents' wishes. They really did not like the idea of me doing that. But my organ teacher, who was LDS, who played for a Methodist congregation, turned out fine in their eyes, and he was still very LDS. And so they kind of just allowed me to do that. But I would listen to what the priest said.
And I would listen to the messages of the liturgical settings, to the music. and especially to the readings. And again, that created other different questions in my mind because then I'm hearing in the Mormon church we are the one true church restored as to what it would have been before. And then at the Catholic church, I'm hearing we are the one true church that has never needed a restoration. Like this is Yeah.
And even Even thinking about the historical aspect of that versus and the styles of worship. is so different between Roman Catholic Roman Catholicism and Latter-day Saints. That we can look back through history and we can see the liturgical processes and worships. We still have all of those hymns. And that was kind of explained to me, but they also, because I was underage, they didn't want to step on my parents' toes.
They were just so grateful that I was there to play the organ. No one ever tried to convert me or try to talk to me really about any of it. They were just glad that I was coming on Saturdays to play the organ for them. But I took all of that with me, and in preparation for my mission, the Catholic priest gave me this little rock that had a cross in it. And a little Celtic cross, and he just said, I want you to take this with you.
And every day on your mission, I want you to carry that in your pocket. And just know that we are thinking about you and that we're praying for you. And that meant so much to me. And so I did. So I went on my mission and they began to call me the Catholic missionary because I carried around that little cross.
And I had many companions out there who were like, What are you doing? Because in Mormonism, you're not, the cross is almost looked down upon. Where Christ suffered is in the Garden of Gethsemane. That's where he took on all the sins of the world, according to Mormonism. That's where he.
Um And that's where he performed the atonement, basically. The cross is just kind of an afterthought. And it's not a a symbol really found in the LDS church. Although I will say in today's time, right now, 2025, that is changing. Which is kind of interesting that it's going that route.
Um But 2015, so only 10 years ago, that was still a really big deal. To have that little cross. And so, on my mission, I did everything I was supposed to do. I said the right things, I talked to as many people as I could about Mormonism, about the theology of Mormonism. based off of what I knew But I didn't go out there necessarily to convert people.
And that sounds weird. As someone who was a missionary, who was supposed to be going door to door, I kind of had this secret. Questions and concerns in the back of my mind that entire time that I was out there, and I would silently look for those answers. And I would try to find like The conversations where some of those questions that I had and those concerns that I had were being asked. And I never really found any of those questions.
There was no resolution to that. And, like, some of those questions. that I have We're about becoming a god. having our own planet. I mean, when I went through the temple for the very first time, that was another oh no, moment in my life where I walk in and we're wearing these clothes that I didn't know that I was going to really be wearing.
I'd never really seen those before. And there's so much secrecy around the temple. That You don't really get to know anything about what goes in there. You just know that you sing songs about it as a kid. that you love to see it, that you're going to go inside someday.
and you're going to take out your endowments, you're going to receive all of these special special things. And I remember I walked in. There's this part in the ceremony where you receive a new name. And I walked into this little tiny room that felt like it was this big. And I stood belly to belly with this other guy.
Who looked at me and he goes, He takes his deep breath and I'm like, What's about to happen? And he tells me, Your new name is Ammon. And I'm like, Oh, wow. Oh, that was so crazy, I don't know what that means. But that I was supposed to remember that forever.
And I thought, okay, oh, I'm gonna forget. And anyway, I went through the whole temple ceremony process. I went through the whole thing. And we sat down in the celestial room at the very end after performing the signs and the tokens and all of those different symbols and things. And My dad said, Well, do you have any questions?
This is the time where you can ask questions. And my mind is bush, it's completely exploded, and I'm sitting there going, Did I just join a cult? And I said that. I said that out loud in the celestial room. And everybody's heads, because it's in the celestial room, it's dead silent.
Whoa, but everybody. Everybody says, They just all stare at me, and I'm sitting there going, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I'm wearing these pinchy garments that are like poking me and hurting me all over. And I'm sitting there just stressed and anxious out of my mind. It was not a good experience for me.
Everyone else, I went through with my cousin, and they're all like, she's sobbing, and my family's sobbing. They're like, Wow, you're finally here. This is what heaven is going to look like. And I'm like, We're gonna be sitting there in these baker's hats and aprons. I'm not, I mean, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but like, that's kind of strange.
And anyway, so I had even more questions after that. And so then I go on my mission and I go through that whole thing. I'm still asking those questions. I'm still trying to figure out what any of that means. And I went to Montana, which That's like not that far from Utah, but it felt like a completely different world to me.
Out there in Montana and Wyoming, the Freemasons are still a very active group. They're a huge organization out there still. And every single little tiny town.
Well, we still have more to go for this testimony, which we will continue next week. But at this time, I just want to encourage you: if you have a need for some resources, materials, I'd be glad to send you some things. Send me an email. Just send it to Russia. At UP.
F C.org. That's the acronym for Utah Partnerships for Christ. I can send you a lot of materials for free. And maybe if you're in a situation where you'd like to help support us as we do the mission trip ministry to Utah, maybe you want to send a special gift to help us keep going with that. Just following up with the radio listeners here with the Truth Network here on KUTR.
All those kinds of things. Your prayers are greatly appreciated. If you need a glossary of terms, just get in contact with me, russ at upfc.org, or you can call me at 801-645-7433.
So, with that, we'll see you again next time on Passion for Christ. Before we sign off for today, please know that all of us here at Utah Partnerships for Christ appreciate your prayers and support. We are also available to do Zoom call workshops or personal coaching on reaching Mormons for Christ. Contact us today at upfc.org. That's upfc.org.
Thanks so much for joining us on another edition of Passion for Christ.
