This is an iHeart Podcast. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Lost Cultural Ethis with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tor Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, clear sound? These are not standard things.
You're only going to get them with the JBL Tor Pro 3, baby. And I love the sound of JBL when it goes, ooh, these earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. Touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling, and the one-of-a-kind audio transmitter, which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in-flight entertainment. What more could you want? First doesn't follow.
Grab a pair at jbl.com. This is Danielle Fischl from Pod Meets World. Parents, quick question: when is the last time you won snack time? The other day, I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest-level snack. And he traded it for a Mott's applesauce pouch.
I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no-sugar-added applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples, packed in a super easy pouch, perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C, and kids love them. Win-win!
Make sure your kid wins snack time with Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn more at Motts.com. Right now, America's Christian Credit Union is offering the top 12-month certificate rate in the nation. This limited time offer is just for new ACCU members.
Earn 4.75% APY on deposits up to $1 million, and it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called a term share certificate, similar to a CD, but with a mission and supports what matters: Christian schools, churches, adoptions, and more. Visit America's ChristianCU.com to get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. Be honest, how many tabs do you have open right now?
Too many?
Sounds like you need close all tabs from KQED, where I, Morgan Sung, Doom Scroll so you don't have to. Every week, we scour the internet to bring you deep dives that explain how the digital world connects and divides us all. Everyone's cooped up in their house. I will talk to this robot. If you're a truly engaged activist, the government already has data on you.
Driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't. Listen to Close All Tabs, wherever you get your podcasts. After a long run, I love using Primale Pure's Bergamot Plus Eucalyptus Body Wash and Whipped Body Butter. They're fully non-toxic and perfect for refreshing and hydrating your skin. And their charcoal deodorant, it's the only natural deodorant that actually works for me.
Use code RUN for 15% off at www.primalypure.com. That's P-R-I-M-A-L-L-Y-P-U-R-E.com. Um This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories, the show where America is the star and the American people coming to you from the city where the West begins, Fort Worth, Texas. The pre-Columbian history of the Americas has remained one of the most mysterious eras of the human story. Or so we've been taught.
Here to tell the story is Dr. Nathaniel Jeansen. who holds a PhD in cell and developmental biology from Harvard. He is also the author of They Had Names, tracing the history of the North American Indigenous people. Let's take a listen.
I grew up knowing next to nothing about pre-European North America. Because I was homeschooled, we spent plenty of time supplementing the curriculum with books from the local Racine, Wisconsin Public Library. And with activities to learn about Native American cultures at the time of European contact. As a youth, I reveled in teepees and wigwams and longhouses. but especially in weapons and war paint.
Buckskins and moccasins. and all the other clever ways that the indigenous people came up with to survive and thrive in North America. Yet lingering in the background was an empty void. for the time period preceding the arrival of the pilgrims. Who was here?
What were they doing? What happened? I went off to a small Christian high school in tiny Union Grove, Wisconsin. Where history class made the void even bigger and put tangible categories on the darkness that I could not grasp. For Europe, we were awash in maps of Greeks, Romans, Germans, and Franks.
We watched the maps change as one kingdom rose and fell after another. We learn the names of the kings and conquerors Alexander the Great, Caesar Augustus, Charlemagne. We were bored with dates and facts, specific signposts of a larger narrative that unfolded over thousands of years. Yet in North America I had no maps, no visuals of the rise and fall of kingdoms, no names of rulers and heroes. No chronological list of dates and facts.
It wasn't boring. It was a mystery. My family heritage made this mystery even more vexing. My mother's relatives lived in Germany. We'd visit them about once a year.
In Germany, old castles and old cathedrals were everywhere. It was like a gong that kept ringing each time I turned my head. reminding me that Europe had an old history. Back in the States I turned my head and there was silence. Yes, I could visit Plymouth Plantation and other post contact sites, but where were the pre contact ruins?
Where were the reminders of thousands of years of Native American history? I lived with this void for most of my life. About ten years ago, the void began to be illuminated. I moved to small town Burlington, Kentucky. visited our local library and wandered through the history section, When Charles Mann's book 1491 just happened to catch my eye.
The subtitle promised something I had been looking for much of my life. New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus. From Mann, I learned that there were a lot more people here in the Americas than originally thought. And then, after Europeans arrived, 80% to 90% of them disappeared. I also learned that these masses of people transformed their environments in ways no one had realized before.
Even the Amazon was not the pristine wilderness we were once led to believe. It was cultivated. like a garden is. Interesting. Professionally, I'm a biologist and geneticist.
About seven years ago, I was trying to work out the details for the family tree of humanity. A family tree based on DNA. Where to put the start for the tree? And how was the generation by generation history of humanity embedded in the branches? The answers emerged, thanks to a lesson I had learned from Charles Mann's book.
I knew the Native American population had collapsed after Columbus. Where was the genetic smoking gun of this event? I eventually discovered it. and then the answers to my other questions fell into place. But the genetics of Native Americans weren't just a useful tool to a bigger scientific pursuit.
Native American DNA itself held secrets. shocking ones that I would soon learn, to the pre-European past of this continent. Over the last several years, I've dug deep into the genetics of the indigenous peoples of the Americas, as well as into their linguistic relationships. Archaeological ruins. and even their own histories of migration.
I've visited sites across the country. I've even been invited to speak on these new discoveries to a gathering of one of the more famous tribes of the Great Plains, the Lakota Sioux. The narrative that you're about to hear represents the results of this thrilling, frustrating. and sometimes terrifying quest for answers. The earliest North American civilization arose, of all places, in northeastern Louisiana.
You can still visit Poverty Point and its mounds and concentric half circles of earthworks. It might not seem as impressive today. But 3,000 years ago, it was part of an economic network stretching 620 miles. Just for perspective, if you go 620 miles due north of Poverty Point, you end up almost in Wisconsin. 620 miles to the northeast takes you into Virginia.
Going 620 miles due east puts you on the Atlantic. The builders of Poverty Point knew the sky. they knew it so well that they aligned their earthwork constructions to it. specifically to the equinoxes. By the 700s BC, Poverty Point was fading into the annals of history.
A few centuries later, another group of builders equally conscious of the heavens, erected another network of mounds. The epicenter of the Hopewell culture was Ohio. Several sites Newark to the east of Columbus Chillicarthy, to the south of Columbus, and Fort Ancient to the northeast of Cincinnati. are now recognized UNESCO World Heritage Sites. Hopewell builders constructed geometric mounds, circles, octagons, and squares.
One of the Newark Earthworks is aligned to the 18.6-year cycles of the Moon. I didn't even know that the moon had eighteen point six year cycles. But these guys did, and they moved large amounts of Earth to permanently record these phenomena. when we come back. More of the story here on Our American Stories.
Plee Habib here, and I'd like to encourage you to subscribe to Our American Stories on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get our podcasts. Any story you missed or want to hear again can be found there daily. Again, Please subscribe to the Our American Stories podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. It helps us keep these great American stories coming. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
JBL Tor Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, clear sound? These are not standard things. You're only going to get them with the JBL Tor Pro 3, baby. And I love the sound of JBL and goes, Goombo.
These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. Touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling, and the one-of-a-kind audio transmitter, which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in-flight entertainment. The audio transmitter also allows for JBL Spatial 360 sound that takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience. What more could you want? First doesn't follow.
Grab a pair at jbl.com. In a time where money often feels disconnected from meaning, It's rare to find a place where your savings can actually reflect your values. That's why I'm here to tell you about a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. Right now, new members can lock in the top 12-month certificate rate in the nation. 4.75% APY on deposits up to $1 million.
And it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called the Term Share Certificate, and it's a safe, secure way to grow your savings. But here's what makes it truly special. Your money doesn't just sit in a vault. It works to help build communities and support your values, all while growing your finances.
This is a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. This is more than banking. It's stewardship, it's real impact, and it's only available for a limited time.
So don't wait. Lock in your rate before it drops. Visit America's ChristianCU.com and get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. Be honest, how many tabs do you have open right now?
Too many?
Sounds like you need close all tabs from KQED, where I, Morgan Sung, Doom Scroll so you don't have to. Every week, we scour the internet to bring you deep dives that explain how the digital world connects and divides us all. Everyone's cooped up in their house. I will talk to this robot. If you're a truly engaged activist, the government already has data on you.
Driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't. Listen to Close All Tabs, wherever you get your podcasts. This is Danielle Fischel from Pod Meets World. Parents, let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, one kid's trying to pile drive a pillow and the other is trying to zip themselves into a backpack.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to sign a permission slip with an eyeliner pencil because that's all I could find. That's why Mott's no-sugar-added applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch and are perfect for moments of stress. Made with real apples, no sugar-added, and the pouch? Genius!
It's mess-free and perfect for the car, the lunchbox, or after-school activities. This is a snack you can feel good about, and a good source of vitamin C, too. Just tasty applesauce your kids will actually want to eat. The other day, I handed one to my son mid-meltdown. He took a deep breath, squeezed the pouch, and suddenly he was.
calm. He had a tiny apple-powered moment of zen. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce.
Learn more at moths.com. There's something special about folks who come through without being asked. Like your coworker surprising you with your favorite coffee just because. Or your friend handing you the aux cable the moment you get in the car. No debate, no fight, just positive vibes.
That kind of love, it just hits different. And that's exactly the energy ATT is on with their new guarantee. If there's ever a network interruption, ATT will proactively credit you for a full day of service. No calls, no emails, no jumping through hoops, it's just handled. It's like the universe saying, I got you.
Except this time it's not the stars aligning, it's your network. And let's be real, that connection is everything. Whether you're holding down the group chat, checking in on your parents, scrolling TikTok, your network's got to come through. And if there's a problem, AT ⁇ T is on the case. No stress, no drama, just real backup with accounts.
Credit for fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See ATT.com slash guarantee for full details. AT ⁇ T, connecting changes everything. And we continue with Our American Stories and with Dr.
Nathaniel Jensen. Let's pick up. Where we last left off. By the 8400s, Hopewell was gone. And this is where the story gets interesting.
Because this is where genetics enters the picture, and we get answers to the question of who is here. For the past eight years, I have been using male-inherited Y chromosome DNA to study Native American history. In other words, I have been following paternal genealogies with genetics. Today in North America, all the Native American Y chromosome lineages are younger than the fall of Hopewell. When Poverty Point and Hopewell were flourishing, None of the contemporary genetic lineages existed in the Americas.
In other words, genetics reveals the existence invaders. The AD 400s mark a crucial turning point in the Americas. Whoever lived before Whoever rose and fell, their origins, their genealogical relationships. have all disappeared from the Y chromosome genetic record. I don't know who built Poverty Point.
I don't know who built Hopewell. but I do know who invaded just a few centuries after Christ. In the AD 400s in Europe, the Roman Empire was beginning to crumble. Germanic tribes were invading from the east. An obscure but fierce Central Asian people, the Huns, also rampaged through Europe and accelerated the fall of the Romans.
It was relatives of the Huns who also went the opposite direction. Eastward, away from Europe, away from Central Asia, away from China. across the Bering Strait into the Americas. And just like the Huns, they left destruction in their wake. But their descendants also left construction and creation in their wake.
on the Iowa side of the Mississippi River, Just across from Prairie Duchenne, Wisconsin, sits Effigy Mounds National Monument. These mounds aren't geometric. Instead they are shaped like animals or people. They don't seem to be aligned to the heavens. but they do seem to carry a message.
When I visited Effigy Mounds National Monument, I discovered that the park contains several types of mounds, not just effigy mounds. Effigy mounds date from the AD 700s or later. The other mounds date earlier, even into the B C era. The older mounds tend to be found right on the cliffs overlooking the Mississippi. positions of prominence.
The effigy mounds are found farther back. It was obvious to me that the effigy mounds could have been built in many places along the Mississippi. But they seemed to favor hugging sites already in existence. It made me think that relatives of the Huns came in, overthrew whoever was here before, And then tried to stake claims of legitimacy by taking the mantle of earlier people groups. I know of at least one contact-era Indian tribe who can trace their ancestry back to the times of the effigy mounds.
The Siouan-Catawban language grouping includes some of the more famous tribes of the Great Plains and surrounding regions. Lakota, Dakota, Osage, Crow, Mandon, Hidatsa, Hesinaboine, and Winnebago. Their ancestors have a history going back to at least the AD 800s. but they weren't the builders of the effigy mounds. In the 80-800s, the Sioux and Catawbans weren't in Wisconsin, but on the Atlantic.
near where modern Washington, D.C.
now sits. The AD 400's invasion of North America wasn't the last. No, I'm not talking about the arrival of Europeans one thousand years later. Just a few centuries after the Hunnic invasion, In the AD 900s. Another invasion happened.
one of the most significant because it brought to North America A group of record keepers whose skills would shine a spotlight on the formerly dark centuries of the pre-European past. In European history, the 8900s aren't as well known as the 8400s. The 80-900s are near the end of the Viking era, not the Roman era. But there are parallels. During the Middle Ages, migrants from the East entered the European continent.
Magyars, the ancestors of modern Hungarians, as well as lesser-known Turkic groups like the Ogus and Kipchaks. moved westward from Central Asia. At the same time, another group of Central Asians moved eastward, the ancestors of modern Native American groups like the Cheyenne. Blackfeet, Ojibwe, Cree, Anomine, Miami. Potawatomy.
Shawnee. Delaware. Narraganset, and others, all members of the Algic language family. They first landed in the frigid Alaskan Arctic. They were met by people who had preceded them.
at contact members of the Eskimo Aleut language family resided along the Alaskan coast. Their relatives reached all the way to Greenland. Genetics plants the Eskimo Aleute in the New World before the algics arrived. Archaeology suggests that a group of Eskimo Aleut left Alaska and went eastward. right around the time that the algaec landed.
The Algics' own records speak of a military victory. At Contact, the interior of Alaska was dominated by members of the Ayak Athabascan language family. The ancestors of the Navajo and Apache both of whom belonged to the Ayak Athabascan language family. were likely up north at this time. Genetics indicates that this cluster of tribes preceded the arrival of the Algics in North America.
They may also have been the losers in the Algix early clashes. The band of Algic ancestors didn't migrate across the North American continent as a unified group. With regular frequency, splinter groups formed, giving rise to pockets of tribes encounter debt contact. One of the earliest splits spawned the lesser-known Yurok and Weot people. At contact, these tribes were on the northwestern California coast.
When they first broke away, they left the remainder of the tribe, known as Algonquians. Near the Alaska-Canada border. In terms of calendar dates, we're still in the mid-AD 900s. Over the next seventy to one hundred years, the Algonquian records are troubled. Much evil, their words, took place.
Geographically, they were likely in what is now British Columbia, in western Canada. At Contact, part of this region was the domains of members of the Saglish language family. Growing up, I never learned much about the tribes in the Pacific Northwest. Salish would have been unfamiliar to me. Apparently the Salish came to the northwest from somewhere else.
Their own migration histories suggest an origin much farther east, perhaps in modern Minnesota. but by the time the Algonquins arrived, the Salish were likely in place. Eventually, the much evil subsided. The Algonquians enjoyed peace, and another splinter group arose. The time frame is the 81,000s.
the place, the Rocky Mountain region of modern Idaho and Montana. the people, the ancestors of the Blackfeet. Around the time that the Blackfeet and Algonquians parted ways, The latter took up farming. In the first part of the AD 1100s, the Algonquian farmers hit a setback. drought, and a common reaction to it.
internal conflict and separation. At this point, the ancestors of the Arapaho, Grovon, and Cree left the main body of Algonquians. I guess this split got rid of the troublemakers, or at least it separated factions, because the latter half of the AD 1100s, describe a renewal of the peace. And what a rich and complicated tapestry it is, indeed. And my goodness, this is not history you're going to get anywhere else, folks, on any dial.
And this gives much more richness. complexity and wealth. to the story of this country. and how it started and how far back. the very first people.
Who traveled across this country were alive. The idea of these early settlements in Louisiana. 700 BC poverty point. and then Hopewell, Ohio. These are stories I'd never heard of before.
When we come back, more of the story. Here on our American stories. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tor Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, clear sound?
These are not standard things. You're only going to get them with the JBL Tor Pro 3 baby. And I love the sound of JBL when it goes, Goombo. These year, but they're packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. Touch screen smart charging case for one-touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling, and the one-of-a-kind audio transmitter, which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in-flight entertainment.
The audio transmitter also allows for JBL Spatial 360 sound that takes any audio and turns into a 360 immersive experience. What more could you want? First doesn't follow? Grab a pair at jbl.com. In a time where money often feels disconnected from meaning, It's rare to find a place where your savings can actually reflect your values.
That's why I'm here to tell you about a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. Right now, new members can lock in the top 12-month certificate rate in the nation. 4.75% APY on deposits up to $1 million. And it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called the Term Share Certificate, and it's a safe, secure way to grow your savings.
But here's what makes it truly special. Your money doesn't just sit in a vault. It works to help build communities and support your values, all while growing your finances. This is a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. This is more than banking, it's stewardship, it's real impact, and it's only available for a limited time.
So don't wait. Lock in your rate before it drops. Visit America's ChristianCU.com and get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. Hi, I'm Morgan Zung, host of Close All Tabs from KQBD, where every week we reveal how the online world collides with everyday life.
There was the six-foot cartoon otter who came out from behind a curtain. It actually really matters that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't. Should I be telling this thing all about my love life? I think we will see a Twitch stream or president maybe within our lifetimes. You can find Close All Tabs wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is Danielle Fischel from Pod Meets World. Parents, let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, one kid's trying to pile drive a pillow and the other is trying to zip themselves into a backpack.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to sign a permission slip with an eyeliner pencil because that's all I could find. That's why Mott's no-sugar-added applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch and are perfect for moments of stress. Made with real apples, no sugar-added, and the pouch? Genius!
It's mess-free and perfect for the car, the lunchbox, or after-school activities. This is a snack you can feel good about, and a good source of vitamin C, too. Just tasty applesauce your kids will actually want to eat. The other day, I handed one to my son mid-meltdown. He took a deep breath, squeezed the pouch, and suddenly he was.
calm. He had a tiny, apple-powered moment of zen. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce.
Learn more at moths.com. PrimalyPure's products are amazing for post-run recovery. Their soothing mist and cream are perfect for calming your skin after a long run. And if you're skeptical about natural deodorants, I was too. But their charcoal deodorant is a game changer.
Use code RUN for 15% off at www.primalypure.com. That's P-R-I-M-A-L-L-Y-P-U-R-E dot com. And we continue with our American stories, and you've been listening. to Dr. Nathaniel Jensen.
Let's pick up Where we last left off. By the early 80s 1200s, though, the Algonquians were on the Great Plains, where they ran into new enemies.
Well Some may have been old enemies. One foe they described as the North Walkers. I suspect these were the Athabascans, originally from up in Alaska and northern Canada, now migrating south. likely the ancestors of the Navajo and Apache. The Algonquians used several terms for their enemies: strong stone, snakes, and invaders.
These may have been Shoshone. their linguistic relatives, the Aztecs of Mexico, arrived with the relatives of the Huns in the AD 400s. Regardless of who exactly the Algonquians fought, by the mid AD twelve hundreds they tired of war and went east to the Mississippi.
Well, most of them did. Here again, another subgroup was of a different mind and they split off. The ancestors of the Menominee in Cheyenne formed here in the early to mid-1200s. Later migrations of the Cheyenne would take them onto the Great Plains. The poor remaining Algonquians.
All they sought was relief along the Mississippi. And all they got was a massacre. The American bottom would have been an inviting place to settle. The climate near modern Saint Louis is temperate and well watered. Here the Missouri and Mississippi rippers come together.
Soil was fertile. game was abundant. But someone else had gotten there first.
Someone powerful. The Algonquians' own records describe the rulers, but not with modern tribal names that we would recognize. The Talegas were the ones who, according to the Algonquians, possessed the East. Today near modern St. Louis, The ruins at Cahokia can still be visited by the public.
I did so myself on a balmy spring day last year. Monk's Mound, the largest earthwork in the entire Americas, contains 22 million cubic feet of dirt. The top of the mound is 100 feet in the air. You can see downtown St. Louis and the Gateway Arch from its summit.
In terms of population size, Cahokia once boasted a population of 10,000 to 15,000 people. This is small by modern standards, but by the standards of the 80-1200s, when Cahokia was at its peak, it was as big as London. Cahokia commanded an empire. It was part of the Mississippian culture, whose reach extended, well, to much of the East. From St.
Louis down to the Gulf Coast of Louisiana, From the western Arkansas border to the Atlantic coast of South Carolina, The Mississippian peoples ruled all of what is now considered the southeast. Cahokian influences were even felt as far north as Aztalan. A small site which sits between modern Madison and Milwaukee, just off I-94. Monks Mound is a flat-topped mound. The mounds at Aztalen are also flat-topped, not geometric or in the shape of animals.
Flat-topped mounds can be found throughout the southeast. many are still accessible to the public. I've visited Moundville in Alabama, about one hour southwest of Birmingham and just south of Tuscaloosa. Moundville hosts at least 29 mounds, many of which are flat-topped. Who built Cahokium?
Who were the Mississippians? Who possessed the East and massacred the Algonquians when they first arrived at the American bottom? In 1774, a Frenchman by the name of Lepage Duprats recorded a Native American nation's history. a history that resonated with much of what we've just observed. When Dupratz spoke to them, they were north of the Rio Grande in what is now Louisiana.
But according to one of the tribe's temple keepers, Their original homes were farther south. With respect to the Mississippians, early Europeans noticed the eerie resemblance between their mounds and the flat-topped pyramids of Mesoamerica, the temples and crypts of the Aztecs and Maya. Astalin, the flat-topped mountain site in Wisconsin, was named as such to recall the Aztec homeland. DuPratz's interviewee was explicit. His people had come from Mexico.
They were not the dominant rulers of Mesoamerica. but neighbors of the Mexican ruling class. When they tired of the belligerence of the Mexican elite, they sent colonists of their own to the north. Here in Louisiana and in what is now the southeast, This tribe flourished. Eventually presiding over a region that stretched from the Louisiana Gulf Coast to the Wabash River in Indiana and from the headwaters of the Ohio to west of the Mississippi.
In other words, the Natchez, the tribe of Dupratz's interviewee, Ruled an area that sounded very much like the area archaeologists call the Mississippian culture. The Natchez were the people that the Algonquians called the Talega. The Natchez possessed the East. The Natchez also massacred the Algonquians when the Algonquins had asked for safe passage across the Mississippi. Do you recall the Siouen Cataubans, the ancestors of people like the Lakota, Osage, and Assiniboine?
Do you remember that they were on the Atlantic in the 80-800s? Obviously they didn't stay there if some of their descendants were famous tribes of the Wild West. By the late 80s, 1300s, the Omaha, Ponkaw, Osage, Kansas, and Kaupa. weren't quite to the rolling prairies of Kansas and Oklahoma. Instead, they were at the mouth of the Ohio.
In other words, they must have passed through Natchez territory, at some point between the AD 800s and late 1300s. The Mississippian Empire wasn't permanent. Long before Europeans reached the area around St. Louis, Cahokia had faded into the sunset. The first signs of Mississippian collapse were in the north.
Astalin was burned in the early 80 1200s. Cahokia fell by the early 1300s along with Moundville in Alabama. Over the next two centuries before contact, archaeology paints a chaotic picture of the former Mississippian domains in the southeast. with one archaeologist describing Societies appearing and disappearing in a pattern comparable to the blinking lights on a Christmas tree. What happened?
the Algonquian records hold the critical clues. After the initial massacre of the Algonquins at the hand of the Natchez, The Algonquians found allies who came from the north. from the very area where Astalin had just been burned. The Algonquian records are somewhat ambiguous as to who these allies were.
Some have speculated that they were members of the Iroquoian language family. I suspect that they were Sioux and Catawbans. Ancestors of the Omaha, Ponkaw, Osage, Kansas, and Cawpaw, who joined the Algonquians and together defeated the Natchez at Cahokia. and then continued south to the mouth of the Ohio. In other words, the Sioux and Cataubans started at the Atlantic in the late 80s, 800s.
And then, over the next few centuries, they migrated westward. likely just south of the Great Lakes, in order to avoid the advancing Natchez Empire. Then, in the late AD 1200s, a group joined the Algonquians and headed south, leaving others like the Winnebago in Wisconsin and the ancestors of the Lakota and Dakota in what is now Minnesota. And my goodness, it'd say Constant story of struggle. of migration of battle, of conquest and reconquest.
Just hearing the story of what the Natchez tribe did to the Algonquins. I love that line. The societies at this time were appearing and disappearing in a manner that resembled lights on a Christmas tree. When we come back, more of the complicated, the rich, beautiful story. Here on our American stories.
This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, clear sound? These are not standard things. You're only going to get them with the JBL Tor Pro 3 baby.
And I love the sound of JBL and it goes, Goombo. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. Touchscreen smart charging case for one-touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling, and the one-of-a-kind audio transmitter, which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in-flight entertainment. The audio transmitter also allows for JBL Spatial 360 sound that takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience. What more could you want?
First doesn't follow? Grab a pair at JBL.com. In a time where money often feels disconnected from meaning, It's rare to find a place where your savings can actually reflect your values. That's why I'm here to tell you about a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. Right now, new members can lock in the top 12-month certificate rate in the nation.
4.75% APY on deposits up to $1 million. And it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called the Term Share Certificate, and it's a safe, secure way to grow your savings. But here's what makes it truly special. Your money doesn't just sit in a vault.
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There was this six-foot cartoon otter who came out from behind a curtain. It actually really matters that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't. Should I be telling this thing all about my love life? I think we will see a Twitch stream or president maybe within our lifetimes. You can find Close All Tabs wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is Danielle Fischel from Pod Meets World. Parents, let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, one kid's trying to pile drive a pillow and the other is trying to zip themselves into a backpack.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to sign a permission slip with an eyeliner pencil because that's all I could find. That's why Mott's no-sugar-added applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch and are perfect for moments of stress. Made with real apples, no sugar-added, and the pouch? Genius!
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calm. He had a tiny apple-powered moment of zen. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Motts Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn more at moths.com.
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That's P-R-I-M-A-L-L-Y-P-U-R-E dot com. And we continue with Our American Stories and with Doctor Nathaniel Jensen. who holds a PhD in cell and developmental biology from Harvard. He's also the author of They Had Names, tracing the history of the North American Indigenous People. Let's pick up.
where he last left off. Because of the Algonquian records, we even have the names of the rulers who were responsible for the Allied victory over the Natchez, the greatest battle and victory in all of pre European North America. Their names follow the typical descriptive Native American naming practice. recall some of the contact era names like sitting bull. crazy horse and man afraid of his horses.
The Algonquian Naming Convention was no different. In 1993, David McCutcheon made an English translation of the Red Record, or Wallum Olum, of the Delaware, one of the Algonquian nations. The relevant section reads as follows, with sachem being the word for ruler in that culture. Sharp One was the sachem, the pathmaker across the river. They won many victories there, driving away the Talagas.
Stirring was the sachem, extremely strong were the telegas. Breaking open was the sachem, capturing all the great towns. The crusher was the sachem.
Southward fled all the telegas. East of the Mississippi, the Algonquins separated again. The time is now the latter half of the 80-1300s. and the location is the Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky region. The Shawnee went south and may have contributed to the blinking on and off behavior of the remnants of the Mississippian Empire.
At contact, the Shawnee were back north in the Ohio area. The Ojibwe left and went northeast to the Atlantic. their own history describes a migration back through the Great Lakes region. Into the Lake Superior area where they were residing at Contact. One of the last splits was the separation of the Algonquian groups on the eastern seaboard.
When the Pilgrims arrived in the 1620s, they encountered Massachusett and Narragansett tribes. Surprisingly, these groups would have made it to New England just a century and a half earlier. Thus the coast to coast migration of the Algic peoples spans more than five centuries and covered more than four thousand miles. The core population grew and splintered several times so that at contact, The Algics represented one of the most successful Native American communities. Ruling from Alberta to Maine.
from the Hudson Bay in the north to the Illinois-Missouri border in the south. Their account touches on the histories of tribes all over North America. Except for the dry and hot southwest, The one region I haven't told you about is the one with the most dramatic ruins, the cliff dwellers. My most terrifying visits to Native American sites in June of last year. We're in the Four Corners region.
the modern states of Arizona, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. Mesa Verde National Park is tucked into the southwest corner of Colorado. Mesa Verde has the most famous and scenic cliff-dweller ruins anywhere in the southwest. The drive up to Mesa Verde from the valley floor ascends more than 2,000 feet. It produces sweaty palms and tingling legs.
At least it did for me.
Some of the road had guard rails in place. I had booked a tour of Cliff Palace, it had a gorgeous view of the chasms that separated the cliff walls. The tour itself was less heart pounding than the drive. Then again I had deliberately screened my options beforehand. deliberately avoiding the Balcony House tour, which happily announced itself as Not for the Faint of Heart.
I happily declined. Spruce Treehouse has a trail that took me out along the cliff edge and back again. The rock walls to my left along the trail still bore the blackened scars of fires from centuries prior to European arrival. I had experienced less manageable terror a few days prior in Walnut Canyon in northern Arizona. You would think that the word canyon would have alerted me to the fact of soaring heights and plunging depths.
But I didn't realize this fact until after I had entered the visitor center and looked out, and down, the big picture window into the canyon. It took two attempts before I finally descended the 185 feet to the island trail and the cliffside ruins. It didn't take long for panicky feelings to set in. There were virtually no guard rails between me and the treetops as I made my way on the loop around a peninsula of rock jutting up from the valley floor. Thankfully, the trail wasn't long.
but it's an experience I won't quickly forget. As the crow flies, Walnut Canyon in Arizona and Mesa Verde in Colorado are more than 200 miles distant. Yet both have cliff-dwelling sites. Clearly something. or some one in this region had caused great panic.
Why else would parents raise their children at death defying heights? Why else except to escape a more pressing threat than death by tumbling? The Southwest experienced something of an empire. and it did so at almost exactly the same time that the people in the East did. The Cahokian Empire began near St.
Louis and spread south and east. Chaco Canyon began in northwest New Mexico. And its network of sites radiated outward, reaching 150 miles away. Choco Rose around the same time as Cookia did. The builders of Cahokia, the Natchez, claimed origins in Mexico.
The people of Chaco showed many links to Mexico and may have also been built by Mexican immigrants. Unlike Cahokia, Chaco fell in the early AD 1100s. As Chaco's population was dwindling, the cliff dweller population was rising. In fact, if we map out the cliff dwellers and other defensively-minded sites that rose at the same time. all but southwestern Arizona.
is covered by this grouping. Which makes southwestern Arizona the place to look for the cause of the cliff troller phenomenon. In the AD 1100s, around the time that Chaco fell and cliff dwellings began. a platform mound building culture appeared in southwestern Arizona. That's a good start.
But who built these platform mounds? We can take some guesses by process of elimination. Among the more famous southwestern tribes are the Navajo and Apache.
Some of their relatives may have been in the southwest as early as the late twelve hundreds, just in time to precipitate the collapse of the cliff dwelling phenomenon. But academic discourse tends to put their arrival even later. The Navajo and Apache were not the cause of the cliff dwelling phenomena. The Aztecs of Mexico, Their relatives included the Pima, Ute, Paiute, Shoshone, Comanche, and Hopi. Hopies were likely allied with the cliff dwellers.
Ootes, Paiutes, Shoshone, and Comanche. We're north of the southwest at contact, not anywhere close to southwestern Arizona. Pueblo peoples are among the best known southwestern tribes: Zuni, Tenoans, Kerasin. But these were more likely to have been builders of the cliff dwellings, not the attackers forcing people into cliffside homes. Our list of Southwest candidates is almost exhausted.
Except for one. The Kochimi human family of languages includes people like the wallapai and havasupai. Residents of Arizona at Contact. If anyone was a good candidate for a martial people, whose reputation for military success sent people fleeing to the cliffsides, I suspect that it's the Hokan. But I could be wrong.
We're just beginning to scratch the surface. I just made a discovery about female-inherited DNA and the possible links between Mayan bloodlines. and indigenous peoples north of the Rio Grande. But that's another story for another day. And a terrific job on the production, editing, and storytelling by our own Greg Hengler.
And Greg was so excited about this piece of storytelling that he was keeping me abreast as he was editing and doing all the things he does so well. Our team does so well. To bring this eclectic version of storytelling to our listeners. And we try to surprise you, and sometimes we really surprise ourselves. This one, Really startled me, and so much of this is new territory.
And it's thanks to the research of folks like Dr. Nathaniel Jensen. Who holds a PhD in cell and developmental biology from Harvard? He is also the author of They Had Names. Tracing the history of the North American Indigenous People.
And my goodness, what a piece of storytelling. We learned that the most terrifying visits of Jeansen were those in the Four Corners region of the United States. And I don't know if any of you have ever seen those spaces where the cliff dwellers chose to live. But you knew it had to be ultra-terrifying times and dangerous folks they were trying to avoid to live in such peril. And truly, to live up on those cliffs was not a choice.
It was actually a survival mechanism. And this happened long before Columbus ever came here. The story of the Americans before the Native Americans. the rich complex history. Here on Our American Stories.
This is Danielle Fischl from Pod Meets World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day, I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest-level snack and And he traded it for a Mott's applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed.
And that's why Mott's no-sugar-added applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples, packed in a super easy pouch, perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C, and kids love them. Win-win! Make sure your kid wins snack time with Motts.
Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn more at Motts.com. We finally switched to T-Mobile because with them, we can be connected here and there. Dad, the cousins in Mexico have a surprise for you. And enjoy the gift of staying connected.
Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just $25 per line. Plus, non-stop talk texts and data between US and Mexico. Visit his door, t-mobile.com, or call 1-800-T-Mobile, 1-800-T-Mobile. See details at cmobile.com.
This is Danielle Fischel from Pod Meets World. Okay, moms, it's that time again. Back to school. And if you're anything like me, you want your kids to look great without spending a fortune. And that's why I've been hitting up JCPenney.
They've got the trends your kids actually want to wear, from graphic tees and cool denim to shoes and backpacks, all at prices you'll feel really good about. And yes, I may have grabbed something for myself too. Like the sleeveless chevron crochet MIDI dress, it is so cute, so flattering, and perfect for everything from weekend errands to brunch with friends. When I told my friends it was from JCPenney, they were floored. It just goes to show how much style and value you can find when you know where to look.
JCPenney seriously makes it so easy to check off everything on your list and maybe treat yourself while you're at it. Whether you're shopping in store or online, it's one-stop shopping for the whole family.
So if you've been sleeping on JCPenney, now is the time to wake up. Shop back to school and beyond at jcpenny.com. Yes. JC Penny. Hi, I'm Morgan Sung, host of Close All Tabs from KQED, where every week we reveal how the online world collides with everyday life.
There was this six-foot cartoon otter who came out from behind a curtain. It actually really matters that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't. Should I be telling this thing all about my loved life? I think we will see a Twitch stream or president maybe within our lifetimes. You can find Close All Tabs wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hey, it's me, Your Heart. Mind if I pick the next song? Listen, even though we're eating better, people who've had one heart attack are at higher risk of another. But Repatha evolocumab plus astatin lowers LDLC, our bad cholesterol, and our heart attack risk.
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View the important safety information in our banner. Listen to your heart. Ask your doctor about Rapatha. This is an iHeart podcast. Um
