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Matt Slick Live

Matt Slick Live! / Matt Slick
The Truth Network Radio
June 9, 2024 5:02 am

Matt Slick Live

Matt Slick Live! / Matt Slick

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June 9, 2024 5:02 am

The Matt Slick Live -Live Broadcast of 06-07-2024- is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry -CARM-. Matt answers questions on topics such as- The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues- -You can also email questions to Matt using-, Put -Radio Show Question- in the Subject line- Answers will be discussed in a future show.-Today's Topics Include--Idolatry and the RCC-What is Discipleship-Evangelism Witnessing Tips-Debts or Trespasses in The Lord's Prayer-June 7, 2024


The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

Today's date is June 7th, 2024 for the podcasters and those who listen later on. All right, we have nobody waiting right now, but if you want to give me a call, it's easy 877-207-2276. If you want to email me, that's easy also.

All you have to do is just direct an email to info at I'm probably going to do some emails and stuff like that today because usually Fridays are slow if we don't have much going on. That's often the case. Now I'm doing something different here. Every now and then we have really good discussions on the radio here. So what I've decided to do, because these are public discussions, is to take the transcripts of them and turn them into articles. So I'm going to start doing that and we're going to get some details out, but that's one of the things we'll probably end up doing. So just a little bit of heads up on that and that's about it. Now if you want to watch the show and you want to participate with some good folks in chat, then you can go to

It's like YouTube, and just forward slash mattslicklive and you'll be able to participate. We have 12 people in the room right now. It usually gets to 60, 70 and we just blab during the break. We have some funny people in there too.

Not only funny looking, but funny. So if you want to participate you can. All right, now let me get to this entry right here. And there we go, there we go, there we go.

All right, now we've got nobody waiting. It's Friday. I'm going to get to some questions and what I'm hoping for is hate mail.

Hate mail. And it kind of reminds me because... I had a discussion. I walked last night. There's a route I take and it's one mile, my route. And I did four of them, so I did four miles of walking last night.

It's about all I could take. My feet started hurting, my calves were hurting. I was sweating. And while I was doing that I had my headset on with my phone and I was in a discussion room. And this guy comes in and I enjoyed... I enjoyed tweaking him.

Sorry, but I did. He comes in and he says, I've been annihilating Matt for months. He's always running from me. He runs and he's such a coward. Dude, stop, you know, stop dis-insulting me. Come in like, you know, dis-insult.

Talk to me like an adult. And he says, I want God. He said this, atheists can't demonstrate or provide any proof for universal moral absolutes. And he said, you've got to prove that. What's your argument?

I want it yes and no. You've got an argument yes or no. Otherwise you're defeated. You know, you're just really arrogant. And I would start to talk and he'd interrupt and he'd call me names. And, you know, I just, you know, I said, look, I get upset with him. I said, look, you just stop being a bully. Just start talking to me and find some people started telling him, shut up. Let Matt talk.

Any rate. So one of the things that kind of happened was I said, well, let me ask you to define your term. What do you think a moral absolute is? And he got mad. You know, you define it. Well, and it didn't work out. And then 10 minutes later, he came back and I defined a moral absolute.

And this is really, it was really something that seemed to get tweaked because I said, well, a moral universal moral absolute, you know, an objective moral, I said objective moral is a is a an abstraction, which is a set of moral obligations that are not dependent upon our subjective experiences or preferences, but rest in the mind of the Christian Trinitarian God. And he didn't like that. You can't define it that way.

Why not? And I said, look, if it's wrong, tell me why the definition is wrong. You know, at this point, it's on him to tell me why the definition is wrong.

What's he going to do? And he said, well, your definition is trivial and triviality and logic and stuff like that means that it's kind of begging the question just what it is. But the response is, well, if it's trivial, is it not true or is it true?

Which is it? And this guy did. He could not. He couldn't deal with it. And it was kind of fun for me.

He actually started minding just a little bit, just a little bit. And, you know, I don't like bullies. And when you act like a bully, I said, look, you're going to talk to me like that.

I'm not going to talk to you and stuff like that. This another atheist got on and we got talking and it's really interesting because this other atheist, he's really polite. And we had this discussion and he presupposes the truth of evolution and materialism. And I said, OK, let me ask you a question. I said, so is your brain operating under the laws of physics?

He says, yes. And I said, OK, then how does one chemical state in the brain that leads to another chemical state, how does it produce proper logical inference? And he couldn't answer the question. He says, well, in evolution, you see, it just happens as you see things. And after he's done with his two minute explanation, I said, well, your brain chemicals may just say that doesn't mean it's true. And he could not get it. It was really interesting to me.

A few people got it, but this guy could not. This is what damage is done to your brain when you're an atheist, you know, is you just can't think straight. But the same kind of a thing goes with with Roman Catholicism. I was listening to the Roman Catholicism. I was at the gym today and they were talking about the sacred heart of Jesus and the sacred heart of Mary. I'm listening.

OK, I'm going to do some research on this. I'm like, well, what is the sacred heart of Jesus? Is it like the sacred lungs of Jesus? Is it the sacred kidney, the sacred liver of Jesus?

What is it? And this guy was saying it's the actual literal heart. I'm like, what? It doesn't make any sense. I must have misheard him. You know, I was in the gym, had my headset on.

That can't be right. And and he said, if I heard him right, that you actually adore the physical heart, the actual heart. And I'm thinking because he said the heart of Jesus is what you're adoring. And there's all kinds of problems with that. The obvious one is you don't want to bow down before a liver and a femur. You know, the femur of Jesus, that's your foundational truth. It makes no sense. So what they have to be meaning is something along the lines of the attitude.

But here's the problem. Let's say it's the attitude, the sacrificial attitude of Jesus that they bow down before the sacrificial attitude of him. That means you're not bowing down before him, but a quality about him they're worshipping and adoring. The problem here is that they're separating a characteristic from Jesus and then adoring the characteristic as if it is worth itself.

Some abstract entity. It's a form of idolatry. So I like to talk to a Roman Catholic about this and see if I can get them to make any sense of it, because maybe I just didn't hear him right. You know, it's like when they say Mary's the mother of God. And if I say, well, Joseph, the stepfather of God is, you know, John the Baptist, the cousin of God, you know, and then, you know, I forget their name. Joseph, Joseph, Joseph, Joseph.

Was he the stepbrother or the third cousin of God? And they never say it like that. They look at the mother of God. They're such idolaters. Oh, it just bugs me.

Yes, that's what I said. The Roman Catholic Church is full of idolaters, along with the Eastern Orthodox Church. They're full of idolaters. They don't serve the true living God because they serve these idols.

And you can go on the web. You go on the web and niggle up statues of Mary and crowds carrying the statues and bowing before the statues. We call that idolatry. That's what we call it.

So much heresy, so little time. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Buskman, welcome. You're on the air, man.

Hey, Matt. I got to add to your Catholic list there. Simon of Cyrene was the neighbor of God. Yes, that's right. That's right. And then there's the Roman soldier was the killer of God.

Yeah, it's just they can't see. I was listening to a lady. Actually, let's put this generically. I was listening to a lot of Catholic stuff because I enjoy listening to heresy. I don't watch sports. I don't listen to sports. It bores the crud out of me.

I'm not interested. So I listen to heresy. Yeah, I got issues.

That's for sure. And I'm listening for the past two days and how they misrepresent Protestantism in their attacks on it. And I thought that was interesting because, you know, I don't want to misrepresent Catholicism. And I try and study their doctrines and then represent what they say. Now they're idolatry. They're idolatry. Well, we are not idolatry. That's not true.

Yes, you are. Because, you know, you worship and serve Mary. You pray to Mary. That's idolatry.

But I was really intrigued by the misrepresentations that they have of Protestant church and how they basically are bearing false witness. It's interesting. But at any rate, anyway, I'm just digressing all over the place. What do you got, Buskman? What's up? Yeah. And I got to say this, man, I've got some dear friends that are some of the most devout Catholics and they're the most wonderful people that they're the most wonderful people.

And it's heartbreaking for me. Here's my question, sir. The biblical definition of discipleship, Matt, if I was to go and bring someone to Christ, wouldn't that be called a convert and then isn't a second motion, if you will, is to disciple that man or woman into Christ-likeness? So if you could, could you define biblical discipleship, sir? Yeah, biblical discipleship means that you take someone under your wing, so to speak, and you meet with them, pray with them, guide them, you know, help in church, in home life if necessary. And the goal is to move them towards Christ-likeness with the work of the Spirit going through the teaching of the Word.

And sometimes it lasts years and sometimes it doesn't until the person says, you know, thank you very much. I'm okay. And now I want to disciple somebody else. That's fine. So that's basically what it is.

Okay. That's fantastic. And I love how you add that you sort of do life together. I have a friend who's like a father in the Lord to me, Matt, and he did life with me. I met him at work at my old job. And he and his wife invited me over for dinner one time and they live out in the country.

And Miss Patty made an awesome meal. And then we sat down and we opened up that Bible that I was, you know, unsure of and what am I getting myself into? And I just have to say that that dear man is still a part of my life today.

And when he goes home to be with the Lord, Matt, it's really going to be a part of my heart that goes with him. So, as I study discipleship, isn't that what the rabbis did in Jesus' day that each student would, if I remember right, Matt, didn't they live with the rabbi? Is that how that worked? And how would that translate into our 21st century discipleship today? Well, I don't know if they did or didn't live with them, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. But that would mean that they were moving into being a Pharisee. They wanted to be completely given to that as a career.

And so they would live the Pharisees and that would make sense at that point. But we don't do it like that. Some people do. Some people actually will say, come into my house and live and I'll disciple you for a few months. Some do.

I wouldn't do that, but some do. So it's okay. All right, there's a break. We've got to go, buddy. All right? Thanks, Matt.

God bless. Hey, we've got one guy waiting. And if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show.

Let's get to Matt from Cary, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, man.

Thank you so much. So I probably heard, listen to your show off and on for probably for the past two years and just finally had the courage to ask you a question because I had went to the soccer game last night. It's called the soccer tournament and it was talking to a Muslim. And it came across about with our faith. And my question I have that I need help with when witnessing is when we were just listening to the question someone was asking is, from your viewpoint, is it really, I'm trying to get when I communicate to people, not use metaphors like sometimes Jesus did versus literacy, like literal comments. So when I told him, um, I'm just trying to share the gospel with you and not, um, and so you're not blind.

He goes, what do you mean blind? So is it, is it idolatry as, should we use idolatry or blinded by Satan, blinded by the plinths of the power of the air when trying to encourage that? Okay. Go ahead. From your different experiences to know that how I could have done better because it didn't become confrontational. It was just helpful that he knew that, Hey, I was born again.

He goes, what do you mean born again? And so I explained it to him. Um, and it was just helpful to know that. Guess what? I'm actually like, he's actually, he's not closed off and I'm definitely not closed off cause I have no benefit of sharing the gospel with him.

Cause it, I told him, I was like, it wouldn't give me a, let me just let you answer that first. I have one other question on that. I'm not sure what the question was. So is it, is it, is it problematic if I use the word idolatry when witnessing to any person or is it better to say, Hey, you know what?

Once I was blind by Satan and now I'm not people understand blindness. They don't know the term. Okay. Okay. So, okay. Gotcha. So there's your question.

So should you say they're idolaters or not? It depends on this circumstance and the individual. Okay.

So that helps. Some people it might be appropriate and some people it might not be, and you never know what is the absolute best way to do something. It might be great to say it one time and another not. And it's just how it is. It's subjective.

So you have to just do the best you can. And if you're talking to a Muslim and he's open to the discussion, you can very politely say, look, I'm not trying to be offensive, but from our perspective, you're serving a false God that makes you an idolater. I'm not trying to be mean.

Now, you know, that's not an offensive approach, but if you just say flippantly, look, you're Muslim idolater, go with me. That's derogatory. And so you can say the same word, but delivered differently can make a big difference. So that's what I'm saying. It depends. Gotcha.

So that was helpful last night. So my approach initially was it came across from his vantage point as accusatory that Muhammad was pretty much, I'm going to say false. I initially said false prophet.

Yeah, good for you. And then he was like, well, he wasn't. And then I was like, he goes, well, what's your view? I was like, I don't have a view. I have Jesus's testimony. I don't have my view.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. He says, what's your view on what? He goes, what's your view on Christianity?

I was like, I don't have a view. I have Jesus's word. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. You don't have a view on Christianity? So you don't believe in the Trinity or do you have a view on the Trinity or who Jesus is or what salvation is?

Oh yeah. So what he was getting at is he, he said, I had an opinion of my faith. I don't have a thing. I have facts.

I don't have a opinion. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You keep making these statements. Then you jump, you keep going. You gotta, you gotta stop. Okay.

Be slow. Okay. To say you don't have an opinion is not true. You do have an opinion. Your opinion is, it's what you believe. Can you prove that what you believe is true? Proof is for mathematics and logic. What you do is you say, from what I understand and what the scriptures teach me, what God's word says is Jesus is God in flesh.

And here's the verses for this. We go with what God says. If they want to say, what's your opinion? Generally what happens, someone said, well, what's your personal opinion? They're just asking for your subjective idea.

And the reason they might do that is because, well, that's just your opinion. It's not valid. So what I'll say is, well, yeah, I have an opinion about it, but it's resting in the evidence revealed in scripture. Okay. Gotcha.

Okay. That is extremely helpful because what he wants, the reason why I was asking this is because I've never had to, I wouldn't say had to, I've never been opportunistic enough to have the opportunity to be able to witness to a Muslim. And it was awesome. And then, um, he was asking me questions and he goes, Oh, I was like, let me pull up the SV. He was, what version is that? I was like, it's an English standard version. I let him know how he was open to even listening to William Tyndale, how he's burned out the steak for converting it, translating into English.

I spent an hour with him and it was so beautiful. But I, when I heard this, I was like, I need to know this because my parents are, I live with my parents and my family members are the hardest to witness to, um, beyond. And so thank you for that help. Um, because I didn't know I was, I was just trusting the spirit to lead me with questions. No, no, no, no. That's good. That's good. And it was, um, I think the fact of, yeah, so that, that is slow down a little bit. Okay.

Slow down a little bit. Oh yeah. Cause it was okay.

Yeah. It was, I think it was the fact of the eagerness of, I don't care about, I let him know. I was like, I don't care about being right or wrong. I want to know if I'll be one day.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You don't care about being right or wrong. So it's okay to be either right or wrong. Cause you don't care. You see? Okay.

That's a good question. Okay. One more time. See, look, you have to be careful of what it is you're saying.

I've done this for a long, long time. Okay. No, that's what I've been listening to you for two years.

So I want to, I need to hear your helpful insight. Yeah. You do care about what's right and wrong. So you don't say, I don't care about right and wrong. What? Why would you care about the right and wrong? Of course you do. You're a Christian.

What? You say, I care about what's right and wrong. And what I base what's right and wrong on is God's word, the scriptures. That's what you, you point back to the word, you point back to Christ, whatever your opinions are, whatever your cares are, you want to relate them back to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ultimately, that's what you got to do. So if they say, well, what's your opinion? Well, my opinion is this it's based on the word of God that Jesus died, rose from the dead as the, as the, uh, the disciples wrote in their, their eyewitness accounts. And that's why I believe that. Gotcha.

Okay. So I think, I think the hardest thing I've had with just in general is sharing the gospel, whoever it is, um, is the fact of my opinion also happens to be absolute truth. And I think that I think I know what other humans have.

What's that? They believe that Muhammad is absolutely true and that the Quran is absolute truth. They believe it.

So what I'll do with Muslims is we're having these kinds of conversations and I'll say, look, you believe Islam is true, right? Why? Why? And I want them to give me reasons. Well, because Muhammad, um, you know, got revelations from God and I'm gonna say, now, look, I'm not trying to be just nitpicky, but how do you know? Just because he said it, how do you know?

But he said it. What miracles did he do? Miracle of the Quran. Well, that's just saying it's a miracle. He wrote it.

I mean, Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon. Is that a miracle? The Bhagavad Gita. Is that a miracle?

The site can help the key to the scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy. Is that a miracle? So just because he wrote it, so you have anything besides he just wrote a book and give me something more. Now what they're going to have to do is start defending the validity of the prophet and say, you know, how do you know he's true? Because, because tell me, how is he true? What I've done is asked a question. I've not told them he's wrong. I'm asking him to demonstrate why he's right. And that's very difficult for a Muslim because they don't have rationality. They don't have facts.

They have opinion based on what they've been brainwashed to believe. Hold on, we've got a break, okay? Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned and we'll be right back.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show.

The bottom of the hour. Matt, are you still there, buddy? Yes, sir. All right. Okay. So as I was saying, you want to have the Muslim, if possible, defend their faith. Defend his faith.

Okay. How does he know it's true? Just because the Quran is there. And then, you know, I have stuff memorized, so I say, well, so the Quran is true? Well, in Surah 42, it says if there's any discrepancies in the Quran, then it's not from Allah, right? And they'll say, yeah. And I say, well, if you go to Surah 86, 5 through 7, it says that a man's seed, you know, the seed of his body, you know, is formed in his chest. And I'll show this to them and say, so how do you know the Quran is true?

That's one way of doing it. Another way I will do, approach Muslims is, are all of your sins forgiven right now? I've done this with Muslims many times.

Okay. And they'll say, well, we hope, and this is a phrase in Arabic, insha'Allah, that if God wills, if Allah wills, they'll say, okay, so do you know if all your sins are forgiven right this second, right now? If a meteor were to come out of the sky and kill us both, would you go to paradise? Would you go to the garden? Would you go to heaven?

Or not? They don't have a, they can't say yes. They say, well, look, I've got something for you then. In my faith with Christ, who we believe is God in flesh, that he did everything necessary, now I'm given the gospel. See, he did everything necessary and that all I can do is trust in what he said.

You've got a lot of wind. You've got to trust in what he did. It doesn't mean we can be bad.

We've got to be good and stuff like that. And that all of my sins are forgiven by my trust in what he's done. Then I ask him this question, why should I give up what I have for what you have? I have absolute forgiveness of sins and you don't.

Why should I give it up? Okay. Yep. And that's what's kind of neat about that is the last five minutes, right when he was getting ready to take his lift, he was a soccer player, he goes, and I was like, do you know where you're going if you were to die tonight, man? He goes, I don't know.

He goes, I hope heaven. I was like, you hope or you know? And I gave him a hug and I was like, man, this was a beautiful moment and a beautiful time and I will pray for your soul. Um, good.

And so good for you. That was, yeah. So what you said was it came to the fact that it's not the hope that you're going there.

I'll just end that. What you just mentioned is one thing I did. However, that it started confrontational and that's when he would have the assumptions about Christianity. And I've had this initial assumptions about Christianity, Islam, um, but actually, you know, but it, um, I let him know my, I gave him my testimony and then once I gave him my testimony, then he was all ears until then it was like back and forth. And I was like, this is awesome.

And, but this, what you just helped me with is knowing how to take a few deep breaths, be more calm and be more punctual with my words. Um, like opinion and absolute truth. Um, I think growing, not, I think I know growing up, there was like, my dad would always say, I think it's hot. He would say, well, Matt, it's 90 degrees outside. Is it hot or is it cold? Like it feels hot or it is hot. And I was like, well, it feels hot.

I was like, doesn't necessarily mean it is hot. So I think that my growing up was like knowing and being, or it seems other than being where I always haven't infected me and you, this conversation with you has helped me give me to slow down when I'm talking and be more calculated with my words. Therefore there's no miscommunication. Right.

And it takes practice. Okay. Okay. It was my first time ever. I was born again at 31. I'm almost 40.

And that was the first interaction. I'm like, this is nine years. I've been looking for that day. Just like my wife, she's, she always can't, can't wait. Cause she's ex Mormon. I jumped when I first met her. She was ex Joseph Smith's wife and she would, she laughs off. And now she goes, I can't wait when they randomly show up. She goes, I missed them three times.

Bring them on. So I'm like, this is, thank you for that help again. Sincerely.

I've had no guidance. Yeah, you did fine. You did fine. Okay. Good.

Good for you. I appreciate it. All right.

We'll do my best. Thank you again. Okay.

God bless. All right. Okay.

All right. Enjoyed that. That was fun. That was good. Let's get to Ward from South Carolina. Ward.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how you doing?

Let me check. Hey, can you hear me? I'm doing okay. Yeah. I had to check. You asked me how I was doing. I had to check. Oh, there you go. Okay. I'm trying to listen through my truck radio while I'm talking through my phone.

It's a little weird to me, but I don't know how to switch it over. Quick question. Me and a group of people meet every Wednesday. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can't understand you. I couldn't understand you. Could you, you wouldn't, not very good there. Go ahead. Try it again. Quick question.

A group of people meet every Wednesday. No, I can't understand you. No, you're breaking up. I can't understand you.

You're breaking up so bad. Okay. I take you off my radio so I can hear you better and I hope you can hear me better.

Are you still there? That's much better. Much better. All right. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to slow down now and start over. I'm nervous.

First time caller. That's all right. Every Wednesday we meet and we have a Bible study at the end of it. We all hold hands and we say the Lord's prayer. Okay. So last night's Bible study, I'm sorry, two nights ago's Bible study was about the Lord's prayer. Okay. Well, in the King James version of the Lord's prayer, forgive us for debt, debtors. And the prayer we say talks about trespasses.

Is there a difference? Like, I mean, we're not saying it exactly like it says. Okay.

You're breaking up there, but, um, I can still help. So trespass is the word paraptonmata and debt is from ophilema and sin is the word hermartia. So the King James was translated with fifth, sixth century documents. And, uh, that's why I don't recommend using the King James. Go to the newer translations, which have more ancient documents because there's a few variations in some of the copyists, uh, in some of them.

And so it's better to go with the NASB for example, or even the ESV and then you'll have less problems. So when it says in a, as I'm looking, I can look at the Greek here, go back to, uh, let's see. Great. Come on.

Get in there. Matthew six, 12. It says, forgive us our debts. And the word there is from ophilema, which means a legal debt. Okay. That's what it means. All right. This will be forgiving our debtors. Okay. Does that help any?

Are you there? Okay. So trespass and debtors mean the same thing, depending on the context, generally speaking, a trespass is a breaking of the law. Okay. Because if you go to, for example, in Colossians two 13, it says, uh, having forgiven us all of our transgressions. Now, when the King James says trespass, let me see if I can find out exactly where that is so I can make sure I get the best I can out of that trespass. Come on. Here we go.

Here we go. So it says trespass, that's in verse 14, which is another word for transgression. And what that means is a breaking of the law to fall, to make a mistake, do something wrong. Well, that's basically deals more with the aspect of breaking the law of God, but that's what sin is too. So there's just, there's synonymous words, but debt, a debtor is different. And Jesus equates debt with sin, legal debt. So this word ophilema when it's in, uh, Matthew, uh, six, uh, 12 is in reference to the breaking of the law of God. And that's what a transgression is.

You transgress the law, you're breaking the law also. So, so just different words that have very similar meanings. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Thank you very much. Okay. All right, man. Okay. All right. Let's see. Okay. All right. Let's get to Gary from Utah.

Gary. Welcome. You're on here. Hey Matt, how you doing? I'm doing all right. Hang on in there, man.

What do you got buddy? All right. I'm going to try to break this down a little bit. There is some questions in it, but I'll give you the backstory first. I'm not going to read all the scriptures. I'll just give you what they are.

Cause you can find them. All right. The subject matter is, um, I told my brother and my dad that I would get to you on your show so we could answer some questions that need to be answered.

What is it? It has to do with, they believe that if a man doesn't step up, that, you know, the old thing you've covered before about women can still be pastors. And I was like, uh, no, they cannot. And so my brother gave me some scriptures that I can give you if you want. And also a couple of things on here, he thinks, is there anybody else besides Paul who says that a woman is not fit to preach? And then I can give you the scriptures when you're ready. So you can kind of help address this. Okay.

What scriptures? Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, we've got a break.

So there's the music. So hold on and then we'll get back to you after the break. Okay. And we'll talk about the scriptures and take a look. But no, women are not to be pastors and elders. And if men don't step up, this means women should. Okay.

They should do something different. I'll talk about that. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on with Gary from Utah. Welcome. Are you still there? Okay, I'm here. Do you hear me? Sorry, yes. Okay, I'll just give you the verses on this and then I'll get into it slowly.

Because he was kind of irritating me and I said, I got to talk to Matt about this because I got to get straight on this. Okay, one of them is john 817 and 18. He also gave me Matthew 1816. 1815? 1815? 16. Okay.

Correct. And then he gave me 2 Corinthians 13 as well. And then he gave me 1 Timothy.

The whole chapter? 2 Corinthians 13, the whole chapter? Um, let's see, he just has 2 Corinthians 13.

I guess it looks like a little pieces there. He's talking about the three witnesses shall every word be established, something like that. And then he gave me 1 Timothy 519.

That's those ones. He's talking about like, not being dogmatic. And I'm thinking, well, I don't think Jesus is being dogmatic. Ask him, is Jesus God in flesh? Is he the only way to salvation? Maybe we shouldn't be dogmatic about that.

Maybe we can get to heaven by calling Muhammad. People say, look, think what they're saying. Don't be dogmatic. They're saying, be dogmatic about not being dogmatic. They don't realize the consistency of what it is that you're saying. What they need to say, really, they should be saying is, what does God's word say and let's adapt our opinions to God's word.

And to say, don't be dogmatic is a dogmatic statement. So it's self-refueling. Oh boy. All right?

Yeah. Now, it says in John 8, 17, and your law has been established by two witnesses, right? The Father sent me to testify about me. What's that got to do with women being pastors and elders? Yeah, that's what I was asking him.

And he threw a couple other things on me too. I'm keeping it slow for here, so we don't get too far ahead. But one of them, he puts the word excusia authority, the word of Paul. Excusia.

Excusia, sorry. Okay. About not meaning like not having dominance over women or something. And so I'm like, well, okay.

What? He's talking about stepping out of my echo chamber. And, you know, he mentions that and I'm like, wow, that doesn't even make sense. I think he's a little mis-confused about scripture is what it sounds like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So these verses, Matthew 18, 16, if you did not listen, do you take it to the church, two or three witnesses? That has no bearing on the issue of women pastors and elders. And 2 Timothy 13, this is too broad, it's a whole chapter, can't look at it.

1 Timothy 5, 19, do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. The word elder there is generative masculine in the Greek. In Greek, words have a gender.

We don't really do that in English except for things like girl, man, you know, those are all gender specific. Except now with people getting confused about what things are and what Satan does is he wants people to not have definitions of specificity so that the more general terms are you have, then the more error can be slipped in. This is the approach of the gender confusion stuff, it's also applicable to Christians. What the Bible actually says, I'm going to go to 1 Timothy 3.15, this is what Paul says, in case I'm delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God. So he's writing to Timothy on how they're to behave in the church, in the household of God, which is the church of the living God.

That's his instructions. So in 1 Timothy 3, the same chapter, he says that an overseer must be above reproach the husband of one wife. Now, bear with me, an overseer, that's the Greek word episkopos, and it's also masculine, singular. An overseer must be the husband of one wife. Okay, andromeskonikos in Greek. He must manage his household well, etc.

Okay, so that's what he says. And deacons, likewise, must be men of dignity. Women can't be deacons, according to this. So that's chapter 3. Well, let's go back to chapter 2. Paul says in verse 12, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority, authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

The word quiet doesn't mean absolute silence, it means just keep it down. And he says, for it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. So he's tying it in, not to a social kind of construct, but to the created order, which God himself established. Furthermore, when you go back to the garden of Adam and Eve, Adam and Eve were there and she sinned first, but sin entered the world through Adam, Romans 5-12. And when they hid, the pre-incarnate Jesus, the pre-incarnate Christ came to them and said, to the man, where are you?

He didn't say Adam and Eve, he didn't say Eve, he said to the man, where are you? This is because he is the one in authority. He's the one who's the captain of the ship, so to speak. His authority was designated, because God set it up this way, that he named the animals and named her. This is an authority thing. I don't care if people don't like this teaching, by the way, it's not my concern. If you don't like it, that's between you and God. This is what the scriptures teach. If you're a Christian, you need to follow this. If you're not a Christian, then go follow whatever God thing you want to do, and then you'll face the true God on day of judgment. Here's something else. It's in Timothy still.

I'm going to go to 1 Timothy 5-17. It says this, the elders, now I'm going to get into this a little bit, the elders, and now it's presbuteroi. What that is in the Greek, presbuteroi, is masculine plural.

The omicron iota ending, the oi ending, is by definition in parsing. When you analyze it, it is masculine, nominative, plural. That's what it is. I won't give you all the details, but it means plural, and it's masculine. There's a way to say feminine, and there's a way to say neuter.

It's not chosen here. The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So now a preacher is an elder, per 1 Timothy 5-17. Are you with me?

Yes. Now, I hope he's listening. This is what Titus 1-5 says. So Paul is now writing to Titus. Remember, he'd already said, give double honor to the elders who work hard, even though it was at preaching and teaching. So a preacher, pastor, is by definition an elder. The elders and the masculine are to be, well that's what it says, give double honor. And the episcopoi, the bishops, or in this case the presbutera, the singular, the bishop, or the overseer, is the same word in English, is to be the husband of one wife. Andra mies gunaikas, man, husband of one woman.

That's what it's saying. Titus 1-5, Paul is giving instruction to Titus in verse 5. For this reason I left you in Crete that you should set in order what remains and appoint elders. Now, what that is in the Greek, excuse me, it's also plural and it's also masculine in the form of Greek. You learn this when you take Greek.

It's called parsing and some other stuff. So, appoint elders in every city. Namely, if any, and it's literally any, but man is implied. Okay, if any man is above approach. Now the word man is not in the Greek there. But it's masculine form, and I won't get into all this stuff how it works.

When you have a pronoun that's masculine form, the implication of the male is there. Just like you could say the word ha anthropos, the man. Well, ha is masculine singular and anthropos, man, is masculine singular. But you could say ha without the word anthropos, but it means masculine singular.

And so, you could put the word man in italics. At any rate, what this is saying if any man is above approach, the, here we go, husband of one wife. So, how is it then that a woman can be in the pulpit, be a pastor, which is an elder, and also be the husband of one wife?

Cannot. Now, I'm going to get going on this a little bit because I want people to pay attention to this because this is a very, very, very, very serious issue and failing in a movement of apostasy in the Christian church to have women pastors and elders. If you are in a church with women pastors and elders, you are participating in apostasy, in the support of apostasy, the falling away from the faith. Now, the Bible clearly says that Paul, what he's doing is giving instruction on how to behave in the household of God. A woman is not to teach or exercise authority but to remain silent, for Adam was first created.

It's not cultural. The elder is also, a pastor by definition, is also an elder in 1 Timothy 5.17. In 1 Timothy 3, he says that the episcopoi, or the episcopos, the overseer is to be the husband of one wife. And Paul also says to Titus, in Titus 1.6, that the elder, which the pastor is an elder, is to be a man above approach, the husband of one wife. So he's giving specific instructions on how it's to be done. And then he says, for the overseer must be above approach, this is Titus, so now he's using that first word, episcopos, and he's saying the overseer, so he's equating overseer with elder. So that means that what we can apply from Titus, I mean from 1 Timothy 3, applies here. That this is an instruction to the church. Now, why is this so important? I know your time is off. Let me explain this, hold on.

The reason, hold on. The reason this is important is because if the men don't step up and do their job, women are not to step up and be in that position because it's not their place to do it. Let's say you go to church, there's 100 people in the church, and the pastor leaves, whatever happens, okay, and you go to church and they want to have a woman preach.

No, she is not to do it, that is not her position, they are to oppose that. And women might say, well the men are not going to do anything. Then sit in church and do nothing. Sit there and do nothing until a man finally gets up, if he feels called of God, gets up and preaches and teaches. Because the pastor is to be a male, and he is to be a husband of one life, and he goes in, that is only for males, and he is to get in there and do that job. And they can switch among the men in the church, they should be qualified to be able to teach and exhort sound doctrine and things like that. And if the men don't do it, then you don't have a church anymore.

You go someplace else where they have a biblical church. And the women need to stop whining, the men need to stop being babies, need to step up, act like men. And then you start doing what you are supposed to be doing.

And just because men don't do it, doesn't mean women are supposed to. Alright, so that is the way it is. And one last point, hold on, one last point. 80% of the churches and denominations that adopt women pastors and elders within two generations start promoting homosexuality.

Oh my goodness, yes. Alright, real quick, so your time is almost up. He gave me Romans 16.7 where he says that Paul, they call the apostles of Andromachus or something like that, and Julia. And Julia, there is debate in history about whether or not it is a masculine or feminine word.

There is discussion about this. And an apostle comes to the Greek apostolo which means to send. You can send someone, that is what the verb means. Jesus is even called an apostle, but an apostle is not a pastor or an elder, it is a different position. So if they want to say that she is an apostle, one who is sent, that is certainly fine. Women can be sent by God, but it doesn't mean they have the position of eldership. I wish people would see it in the Bible. Yes, yes, that makes sense.

I might have to call again Monday or something, we have to follow up on this. Yes, are we willing to debate this on a national level? I have offered this for over 20 years on radio. I will debate anyone on this topic.

Does the Bible teach it is okay for women to be pastors and elders? Not a single person. All right, buddy, we have got to go. I won't be in a chance to send emails, so thank you. Okay, all right. Sorry I had to go so fast on all that. Hey, folks, I guess we will be back on Monday, by God's grace. I hope you have a great evening and a great weekend. May the Lord bless you and talk to you later.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-06-08 22:38:14 / 2024-06-08 22:58:09 / 20

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