Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

You're listening to Matt Slick live. And if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you need to do is dial 877-207-2276. You can also email me at info at KARM.org.

I just put in there in the subject line radio comment or radio question, or as Jim did, he put in show question, but radio question is good. And we can get to those later. Whew, let's see if any more came in. I'm just looking at different things. Oh, there we go, there we go, good.

The transcripts, that really helped. All right, we have one caller coming in. Let's see, so I'm thinking about, I'm actually interested, I'm thinking about starting a Patreon again, and I get a lot of new stuff to talk about, a lot of new things.

And so, patreon.com forward slash mattslick. But thinking about doing that, and I've got a lot of, excuse me, wow, sorry about that, I've got a lot of things running through my head. One of the oddball things that I started doing was reading the Quran. But not just reading the Quran, I mean really slowly paying attention to everything in every verse. And I just started chapter six, and so what I'm doing in the process is, excuse me, is I'm outlining very, very, very basically, you know, just like surah two, you know, speak fair to people, and corn has seven ears and 100 grains, and wrongdoers have no helpers, just stuff.

And in surah three, Jesus is a word from Allah, associate no partners with Allah. And then I'm also categorizing stuff by topic, and I'm making my own little topic arrangement thing. So I've got stuff on Allah and his apostle.

Boy, you've got, it's just so many times. But here's something I've noticed that I did not realize at all until I started reading the Quran like that, because I'm doing this, you know, I debate Muslims and, you know, I study everything. And I noticed how it doesn't have any history in it. And what I mean by that is in the Bible, you have all these cities, all these places, all these wars, these kings, these individuals, and it goes on and on and on. But in the Quran, you don't find that. You find comments. They're like wisdom statements, which anybody sitting there could just write a bunch of stuff, you know, don't do bad, because if you do bad, the scales of justice will be upon you. Remember, Allah is most forgiving.

When you come up to someone, remember to greet him well, for Allah is with you always. It's just a bunch of things. It's not in history. And I was wondering about that. Now, I'm going to keep reading.

There's 114 servers to go. I'm going to keep reading. I'm going to be paying attention to real events at real time.

Now, I'm sure there's going to be a few mentions of a few cities and a few things. But when I'm reading the Quran, I'm noticing how vacant history is, the actual involvement of God in the world, doing stuff in the world. So in the Bible, there's Noah's Ark. God communicates to Noah, I'm going to destroy the world.

God walks with Adam and Eve in the garden. He is in the midst of the people of Israel in a pillar of fire. He speaks audibly to the prophets. And that's a good question.

Did Allah ever speak audibly to Muhammad according to Islam? I wonder. That's a good question. That's a really good question. Anyway, so you know, when you read the Gospels, Jesus goes from this place to that place, along this road.

He walked over there. God is involved in people's lives. And it dawned on me that God is involved in the people's lives in actuality in space and time.

He really is. But not the Quran. Not the Quran. It reminds me of somebody just trying to make stuff up, trying to sound spiritual. And then all these statements that are highly repetitive. If you don't do enough good, you're going to be damned. Just trust whatever Allah says.

Trust whatever Muhammad says. It's just a lot of stuff. You can categorize these things like that. And there's statements about forgiveness and statements about, oh, Jesus made a bird from clay. Well, that's an apocryphal, false book that he got over.

It's interesting stuff. And then what could be dealt with justly. Stand for justice. Muhammad is no more than an apostle.

Punishment if you do bad things. Those who reject Islam get rid of fire. Don't forget to repent. I'm waiting for, and then so-and-so went down here, the prophecy of this, just as the Lord said this happened, blah, blah, blah. And you find archeology all over the place confirming the Bible.

But it's absent from the Quran. That's the observation I've made so far. And I'm going to be talking about that a little more.

I start doing Patreon videos again, probably. And stuff like that, I think it's interesting. I think it is interesting. All right, so I'll tell you what. We've got an interesting caller from West Africa. So we'll get right to him. Let's get to Martin from Accra.

West Africa, welcome. You're on the air. Yes, good day. Thank you for having me. Good evening to you, and good evening to all your listeners. Thank you.

OK, we don't have anybody from the South Africa call. But you're the first one, so welcome. God bless. So what do you got? OK, thank you. Yes, please. Please, I was hoping you could help me with some Shed More Light on, the book of second chronicles. I'll go straight to the point.

In chapter 26, towards the end of chapter 26, it says that if we want to find out more information about the acts of King Uzziah, we should. So I've just opened it here, so you're all right if I read it. Yeah, sure. Hello? Yes.

Yeah, OK. So this is second chronicles, chapter 26, from verse 22. So I'm reading from a New King James Version. Now, the rest of the acts of Uzziah, from first to last, the prophet Isaiah, the son of Amor's roots. So Uzziah rested with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of Beirah, which belonged to the kings.

For they said he is a leper. Then Jotham, his son, drained his place. I just read verse 23 as well. But they said, if you want to find out more about the acts of King Uzziah, you should, the prophet Isaiah, the son of Amor's root, about that.

So that's the first part. And then later on in second chronicles, chapter 33, when he talks about King Manasseh. So I'll just read from verse 18. Now, the rest of the acts of Manasseh, his prayer to God, and the words of the seers who spoke to him in the name of the Lord God of Israel. Indeed, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel. So they say, if you want to find out more about King Manasseh, especially about how he turned back to God before he died, and even the prayers, the prayer he said to God, you can go to the book of Kings.

Then if you go to, hopefully, I'll get to the point then. But if you just go to chapter 35, still on second chronicles, from verse 25, I'll just read that as well. Jeremiah also lamented for Judea, that's King Judea. And to this day, all the singing men and the singing women speak of Judea and their lamentations. They made it a custom in Israel. And indeed, they are written in the laments.

OK, so my question is this. This is about three times the book of second chronicles references other books that we have in our 66 book Bible. So chapter 26, the acts of King Judea.

Chapter 33, the prayer of Manasseh. Chapter 35, the laments for King Judea. So when I actually checked the book of Isaiah, I actually didn't see much about King Judea. Seems to be less written about him in the book of Isaiah than there is in Chronicles. I also tried to factor in the fact that I think in the book of Kings, he's not called King Judea, he's called King Azariah.

But that didn't really help much. And then for chapter 33, that reference. OK, so my question is, how come the book of Chronicles is referencing other books that we have in our Bible?

And they tell you to actually go there and find out more information. But when you go to those books that second chronicles is referencing, that information is not there. No, I'm not finding it. Maybe I'm not finding it. I'm not looking for it. So I was hoping you could shed more light on that.

Thank you. The Bible mentions many books that are not scripture. The book of Wars in the book of Numbers. Book of Jasher in Joshua. The Chronicles of David in 1 Chronicles. 1 and 2 Chronicles has a lot of books mentioned in it, such as the Decree of David, the King of Israel, the Chronicles of Samuel, the Seer. The Chronicles of Nathan, the prophet, the book of Gad.

You go into Esther, and you get the book of Ahusuerus. In Malachi, there's the book of Remembrance. In the book of Life in Daniel, in the Revelation book of Life. Book of Judgments also in Daniel.

And there's the Lamb's book of Life, the Seven Sealed book, and the Angel's book in the book of Revelation. So all we're saying here is that there are other books that the Bible references. Doesn't mean those books are inspired. It quotes the book of Enoch and Jude, but it doesn't mean Enoch is inspired. And Paul quotes three pagan philosophers, Epimenides, Menander, and Erastus. So it doesn't mean that they're inspired.

So all that's happening is that the inspired writers are looking at books that they had at hand with information, took information out of those, and said, this is where this is from, and things like that. And that's all it is. It's not a big deal. OK? Um, actually, sorry. Sorry. Have you finished?

Can I come in on your two? Sure. OK. Yes. Thank you for that.

I actually did consider whether it was like that. And as you said, a book like the book of the Wars of Yahweh, I think in Numbers chapter 21, the book of Jasher, Joshua chapter 10, Second Samuel chapter 1, and Enoch goes on like that. So those are books that we don't have in our 66-book Bible. But in this case, Chronicles is actually sending it to the book of Isaiah, sending it to the book of Kings, sending it to the book of Lamentations, which we actually do have in our 66-book Bible. So my question is, is it that the book of whoever wrote Chronicles, because there's a bit of debate, but from research, it seems to be, well, it's more like tradition, it seems to be Ezra. But from the book of Chronicles, is it that at the time he was writing it, the book of Isaiah contained it at that time? At the time he was writing it, the book of Kings contained the prayer of Manasseh.

The time he was writing it, the book of Lamentations mentioned the name of King Josiah, because those books are in our Bible. We're not talking about books outside our 66-book Bible. Here's the thing. You're mentioning, it's hard to follow, because you're mentioning so many different things so quickly, I can't keep them all in my head. OK, sorry about that. No, it's OK.

It's all right. What I would say is what you could do is write us an email and say, and this particular verse, it says this referencing that. And then what we can do is write an article dealing with it. And we have a whole section called Bible Difficulties. And so it takes study.

Usually those kind of things just take study, which I don't have that memorized right now, so I can't tell you. But I'm interested in you writing it up, seriously, and then emailing it to us. OK? Seriously. And then we can take a look.

Just before we go, just wanted to say one point. Second Chronicles, chapter 33, maybe I've said a lot, so I'll just stick with that. It mentions the prayer of Manasseh in the book of Kings. Manasseh, actually, in English. But yeah. When you go to the book of, yeah, OK, Manasseh.

Thank you for that. When you go to the book of Kings, it gives you less information about that. And it doesn't actually have the prayer of Manasseh.

But when you have some other Bible that is not the 66 Book Bible, the prayer of Manasseh is actually there. So that's sort of what is actually making it a bit more confusing. We have a break. But see, you've got to write that up and send it to us.

Because I have to look at it in context to see what's going on. But we've got a break. So either hang up if you want.

Or you can hold, because I know it's long distance and stuff. So hold on if you want. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. All right, but welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you need to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get back to Martin from Accra, which I looked in the map during the break.

You're in Ghana. Pretty cool. All right.

Yes, please. Yes, I've actually been following you for a while. You were very influential when I came to Christ about six and a half years ago. So I just wanted to thank you for that.

And yes, you have done that first. Yeah, you were very influential. Well, praise God.

I mean, if God's going to lower his standards to use a guy named Slick, then this must be desperate out there. But OK. Oh, yeah, you were very influential. I guess I should have thanked you for that first. Thank you. It's all right. And I don't think you should worry about the name.

I don't think people are bothered about that. Oh, no, well, you see, the thing is Slick is kind of an odd name in American English. And it has meanings like you're hip, you're cool, but also a little dishonest. So it's a widely used word in a lot of different ways. And so growing up, I had learned to run because of that name, let's just say. But now I just have fun with it because I'm older. So it's like, hey, get something done.

I call it quick and slick and slick eyes. Just having fun with it, so it's all. So OK. So I hope you do send me that information. Send me those issues so I can take a look at it.

Yes, please. OK, OK, OK. So I think I'll just get on the website again. I only picked the phone number. I think the email address will be there. And then I'll just use that.

Info at karm.org. And what's really good is when people say, in this verse, it says this. In that verse, it says this.

Why blah, blah, blah. I can go look exactly what it is. Sometimes people say, why does it say in Second Chronicles 23, you know, there's so and so. Well, what verse is it?

Because it might have a different translation. And I don't know what they're, you know. So I just be specific, and then I check it out. OK, OK, that'll be great. OK, OK, so God willing, I'll send that email to you. And thank you for your attention. Thank you for your time. Thank you for all the work you're doing. I really appreciate it. Well, thank you, and praise God.

And I'm glad you're listening, and praise God. What time is it over there in Ghana right now? Yeah, so let me just check it. So yeah, 20 minutes past 10 PM, about 10 in the night. Yeah, it's not too bad.

Not too bad, about six hours difference. Yeah, I'm looking at Google Maps. I'm looking at your city.

And it looks like it has some nice beaches. So that's good. Good.

And I saw a Pentecostal church. Thank you very much. So info at. All right, yeah, just send it to info at karm.org, OK? All right, brother? OK, and then the subject, I'll just make it maybe. Bible difficulty. It's about the book of Chronicles.

Yeah, Bible difficulty in Chronicles. Yeah, that's good. Perfect. OK. OK, thank you very much. OK, have a good night.

You're welcome very much, God bless. All right, how about that? I don't think we've ever had, I've been doing radio for over 20 years, and I don't think I've ever had a call from Ghana. When I was doing radio at a radio station, they kept a list of all the different countries. It was like about 100 countries I'd gotten calls from.

It's no big deal, but it's kind of fun. Hey, look, if you want to give me a call, 8772072276, Mike from Salt Lake City. I was just down on that neck of the woods a few days ago. What do you got, Mike? Oh, hang on just a second. OK. OK. Can you hear me OK? Yes, I hear you. Oh, sorry about that.

I had it on speaker. Hey, I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about how do you get correct information of the word of God, and how do you decipher it from these other books? Now, I was kicked out of the Book of Mormon 14. Which other books? I'm going to talk about the Book of Mormon. I'm going to talk about the Quran.

I'm going to talk about other books that have been written that are prophesizing to be the word of God. Yeah, they're not. Both of those are false. Both of them are false books and false prophets. But a lot of people out there don't know that. They don't know that.

And so to give you the back story, I was kicked out because I made the comment, I believe in the Book of Mormon as far as it has plagiarized correctly. And now we have a bad thing to say. I'm sorry, you've got to have a garden because there is a lot of that in there, yes.

Yeah, but the search begins, though. And there's so much propaganda. There's so much garbage out there that says, we're the word of God.

I know the Book of Mormon says, we believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as translated correctly. And I mean, we're prey to this when we're children. And we have no idea how to find the word of God. But what I did to find what is true, you've just alluded to it. And you said at first, God's interaction with people.

But it goes beyond that. It goes into the three-dimensional description of the people of that day. When you read the Bible, you hear about the color of bowls and the type of food they ate, what they cooked, and how they cooked it. And this puts a three-dimensional view on how people lived along with the chronology of the timeline. When you read the Book of Mormon, there is no timeline.

There is no real way of figuring out how they migrated from Jerusalem in the brother of David in these submarine boats over to the Americas, and Laman and Lemuel, bad people, and all these things. But what you said was important in that it has no, it's a two-dimensional, what we call the flat planar experience. You might get a name. You might get, like you said, advice, the do's and don'ts. But what you never get is the three-dimensional.

The Bible puts you right in there. I'm going to use that. Yeah, I like that. I'm going to use that. Two-dimensional versus three-dimensional. I'm going to use that.

That's very good. The Quran and the Book of Mormon are both two-dimensional. They're just on the plane here. There's not God involved in history.

I mean, really involved. They can say things, but it doesn't mean it's true. Yeah, it's true. Well, I mean, and then you hear these nonsense things like, oh, Coriantemor and Shiz are 6 million people killed on the Hill Cumorah. You couldn't put 6 million people on the Hill Cumorah.

And so it goes on and on. But what I want the listeners to just do and take seriously, just take seriously, look at the description of how they lived. Look at the names. Look at the dates. Look at the information.

Look at the timeline. Look at the artifacts that have been discovered to support it, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and Ezekiel. I mean, everything is validated through the Bible.

The rest of it is just do's and don'ts. And it's very vague. It has no real legitimate timeline, no artifacts to prove anything. And that's how you find out what the word of God is about. God doesn't leave you to question if you just do a little research. Well, the Mormons are going to say that it does have history. And then they'll go to the South African. Well, OK, I'm just saying that's what they're going to say.

Now, it sounds to me like you've done your study, and you know that that has nothing to do with what the Book of Mormon says. They're just reaching for anything they can find. Well, and they do that. And then you get, well, I was 14. I deserve to get kicked out, though, let me tell you. I really did.

I wasn't a good kid. And I have nothing bad against the Mormons. Don't get me wrong. They're beautiful, wonderful people. And they need to be brought into the light, too. But to get them there, we need to.

They need Jesus, for real. Hold on. We've got a break, OK? Can you hold on? Sure. Because we've got a break coming up.

Yeah, all right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We have two open lines, 877-207-2276.

Give me a call. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. So they reactivate Mike. I can get him back on the air if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. All right, Mike, welcome back on the air.

Still here, yeah. So I just want to let people know that when you read the Bible, it's a living word. It's living in the sense that it tells you in the minutest detail how people lived. And it does not cross information that has a paradox or clashes. And the thing is, is these other books, like the Book of Mormon, and I'm not trying to slander the people. There's wonderful Mormons out there, so don't get this wrong. But to bring people into the light, you have to also know that the darkness is misinformation. And one of the greatest forms of misinformation are these books that claim to be the word of God. And they come out of the pit of hell, as far as I'm concerned. And they get you diverted, and they get you to read anything and everything but the word of God. And that's the tyranny we face that comes directly from the darkest features of hell, I think, is information that claims to be God. This goes on.

Some of these evangelists that are, you know these people on radio and stuff, it goes to all across the board with this type of modus operandi, if you want to call it that. Right. You know? Yeah, well, I agree with you. Jesus says in John, Matthew 1338, he says you're the father of the devil, or your father is a devil, your son of the devil, or sons of the kingdom.

There's only two options. And I talked like this Mormon I debated. He and his wife. It's really interesting.

They're nice folks, nice enough. And what was really interesting is afterwards, we went back to what I call the blue house, and we had a discussion. And I showed his wife exactly from the Bible where it says that Joseph Smith could not have seen God the father, flat out denies it. What she did is 1 Timothy 6, 16, talking about God, the father who dwelt in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see.

That's what it says. And what she did was two interesting things. This is just representative of people in various false religious systems, is that she reinterpreted, added words into the text weren't there in order to make it fit the theology. That's no changing God's word. When you do that, you're calling God a liar. And the second thing was history was more important than the word of God.

So she actually said, this is representative, that she would rather trust what the books about history and verifying everything says than God's word. When that happens, in the spiritual realm, it is a denial of the truth of God's word and essentially calling him a liar that he's not, what he says in his word is not true. And so the judgment of God's upon them.

And this happens all over the place. It happens in Islam, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, it happens all over, yeah. Well, the thing is, is people like the LDS church, they hang on to validation so tightly that it becomes more important than the word of God. Like you said, and they want to validate it above scrutinizing it or questioning it. And that's one of the reasons, I mean, I can't tell you back in the day, in the sixties, you know, a lot of us got booted out of church for even questioning the word.

And they would always come back with what you said, it's validation above, you know, and I hope that people are listening to this. And remember, especially if LDS people are making a transition out of the church, take a look at some of the scriptures. Some of them in the Book of Mormon are nearly word for word right out of the Bible. Almost, like I said, plagiarized correctly.

There's a lot of scriptures like that. And the Book of Mormon has undergone over 5,500 revisions. They call them refinements.

They're not. I wouldn't say revision, because you can have a revision being a whole work for two months. That's a revision, but you mean textual alterations.

And there's- I like that. And the thing is, is they're not refinements. And they are just lies to fit the, you know, period of time. The mark of Cain has been erased for until 1978.

Blacks could not hold the priesthood. And now the vision came and they had, but there was never an apology. There was never, we were wrong. It was just a vision. And that should tell you something. Right there. You know, and so people, if you're out there listening and you're searching, compare the two-dimensional aspect of what is written to the three-dimensional living aspect that is what is written.

And that should at least lead you in the right way. Amen. You know? I'm glad. And you know who Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson are down there, MRM?

No, sorry. Well, I don't know where you are in Salt Lake City, but they're in Sandy. And I'd recommend that you contact or just check out MRM, mormonismresearchministry.org. I just talked to Bill this morning.

We've lived here for decades. He's a great guy. He's an expert. Both of them are absolute experts on Mormonism. And when I have questions, those are the two guys I go to for expertise.

They have a center down there in Sandy also, and maybe Straper. But I might be there in a couple of weeks. But any rate, it's a resource for you to check out. You'll like them. They're great guys. Okay. Well, I appreciate that.

Thank you. And like I say, keep adhered to the living word and you will not be led astray. That's right. If they believe God's word, but they don't.

They believe what someone else says is God's word. It's so easy to see it in this two-dimensional, three-dimensional idea of two books or three books, whatever you want to call it. Right. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate your time. All right, man. God bless, brother. You too. Bye-bye. All right. That was an interesting call. Hey, we got a couple minutes before the break. 877-207-2276.

Let's, Saint Beloved from Minnesota. Welcome. You're on the air. Hello. Hey, how's it going? It's going.

Can you hear me? Hanging in there. Nice.

So what do you got? So like I don't, I don't agree with the Reformed doctrine. And like one of the main reasons would be like the fact that nobody can seek God and that happened after the fall. So after Adam ate of the fruit of the tree, it's your belief, right? I just want to confirm that it was after that that nobody after that could seek God by themselves. Right, because the Bible says in Romans 3, 10, as it is written, there's none righteous, not even one. There's none who understands.

There's none who seeks for God. All have turned aside together, they've become useless. So that's why I say that, yep. I want to interpret it that way. But so then, would you want to read all that?

Well, hold on a sec. All I did was read it. I didn't interpret anything. I just said, that's why I believe that because that's what it says.

There's none who seeks for God. I didn't interpret it, that's what it says. So that's why I say that.

I didn't do anything. So that's what it says. Absolutely nobody seeks after God then. If you just read that on this day, then nobody seeks after God, right?

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You made a comment. You said, no one seeks for God without God's help.

Absolutely, I agree with that. No, the scripture, though, what we just read doesn't say that. But no, I'm saying you said that earlier. That's what I'm saying. So what do you do with the Bible verse that says, there's none who seeks for God?

What do you do with that? Romans 3.11. Well, I believe like throughout our day, like nobody seeks after God like all day, all day, every day.

So that's what it means? We miss the mark. We don't, we're not perfect. When it says there's none who seeks for God, do you agree with that or disagree with that?

Yeah, like perfect. Well, once I like read or understand like the whole rest of the book, everything kind of fits together, which makes it make sense. Yeah, if you seek me, God says, you know, then. Yeah, like if you seek me, you'll find me. Yeah, and Jesus answered, I told you I'm his, and so if you seek me, let these go their way. And that's John 18.8. There are different places where it talks about God drawing people, John 6.44, where the word of God goes out, it accomplishes what God desires. I have 55.11 in Romans 3.11, clearly, no one seeks for God, no one understands. So what's he saying? He's saying that in the ultimate sense, nobody's understanding what's going on and seeking the true and living God. He has to work in your heart. He's gotta be the one who draws you, because Jesus says in John 6.44, you cannot come to me unless the Father draws you.

That's what it said. Jesus said John 6.44, so, okay. But then Jesus also said that after the resurrection, he's gonna draw all men to earth. That's John 12.32. If I lifted up from the earth, I would draw all men to myself. Now you gotta understand that biblically speaking, Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 15.24. He was not sent to the Egyptians and the Syrians, et cetera. Only to the people of Israel.

So he says, when he's lifted up, he'll draw all men, all people groups, all groups, all people, not just the nation of Israel. Hold on, we've got a break, okay? Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please, stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you wanna give me a call, we have three open lines for the last segment. 877-207-2276. All right, hey, welcome.

You're back on the air. Hey, yeah, so back to the point of all, would it be fair then to say that Adam sent everybody after him to hell because none of them could seek God? They didn't even have... I understand what you're saying, but the phraseology is, it needs to be refined. Adam didn't send anybody to hell. God's the one who sends people to hell, since he's the judge. When Adam sinned, everybody was made sinners in him and all of the descendants because of his sin.

That's what we would say, okay? I would say that God, he put curses on us, like he knew all the mayhem and stuff we would cause and he gave us curses, which to me makes sense. So like we fell, he knew all the destruction and stuff we were gonna do, and he sent both curses upon us, like we're gonna have to work, like all that makes sense. But to say that Adam sinned and now everybody after you goes to hell because to me, that's my big... You don't like that?

Well, let me read the Bible to you, okay? So we read two verses, Romans 5-18 and Romans 5-19. So then, as through one man's transgression, that's Adam's sin, there resulted condemnation to all men. Even so, through an act of righteousness, there resulted justification of life to all men. Verse 19, for as through the one man's disobedience, that's Adam, the many were made sinners. Even so, through the obedience of the one, the many will be made righteous. So Adam is the one who made us sinners.

That's what it says. Yeah, and I agree with that. Good, okay. So that means we are by nature, that means we are by nature, children of wrath, Ephesians 2-3. And because of this, that's why Jesus says in John 6-65, he said, You cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father.

So, there you go. The only way to come to you on the court of Jesus is if God grants it to you. That's what Jesus said.

Okay? No, I know the way you interpret that verse, but a majority of Christians don't interpret it that way. But I don't care what a majority of Christians say.

Who cares what a flying ripplet majority says? What does Jesus say? He said, You cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father.

I didn't interpret it. What I'll often do with people when they disagree with something, you know, I believe in, well that's okay, I just talk to them and I'll say, Well I believe that you can't come to Christ unless it's granted to you from the Father. And they'll say, No, it's not true.

They don't realize it. I just quoted John 665. I didn't interpret it. I just quote it. And they disagree with it. And then when I show them where it is, then they say, It's just your interpretation. I said, I didn't interpret it.

I just quoted it. The problem is that the people, what they are doing is they're not submitting themselves to the word of God. They have the blonde hair, blue eye, Caucasian surfer Jesus that are following. They're not following, you know, in a lot of times, a theological perspective that's revealed in scripture.

That's the point, okay. So how could you morally, or how about this? Is there one way you can show me that the Reformed God is more moral than the non-Reformed?

Your question is difficult because then I would have to have a moral standard that I compare God to. And that would be arrogance. Well, his right. His right is that he's loving, fair, just. So I would say sending everybody to hell because of Adam's sin, you can't.

That's not just. You can complain to God on the dead judgment. You can tell him he's wrong for that. I just read you the scriptures where that's the case. You can disagree with God.

Do it all you want. But you need to submit yourself to God's word. You need to read Romans 5 and study Romans 5. It's very important because your theology needs to be changed. It needs to come into agreement with God's word. And if it doesn't, it'll move you towards apostasy. You need to believe what God's word says.

No. I love God and his character. I believe everything he commands us to do is logical. That's how I came into faith.

I don't believe he hides that. Hold on. You did not come to faith because of logic.

You came to faith because God granted that you have faith. Okay? Okay. That's why. So we can have faith in everything else except God.

That doesn't make any sense. The reason that you have faith in Christ is because God granted that to you. Okay?

That's why. Okay? But it's your view too, though, that nobody can have faith. So I can have faith in my president.

I can have faith in my father. You're not listening to me. That's not what I said. I didn't say that. I said your faith that's in Jesus, that the only way you can have that faith that's in Christ is if God grants it to you. Okay? All right? So he hides it.

It's hidden from everybody else. Like he made some law. Adam eating the fruit. He said I'm going to make a law. Hold on. Hold on. Back up.

Back up. You see, look. What I was doing is quoting to you scripture. To you it has been granted to believe. It says in Psalm 129, and Jesus says this is the work of God that you believe in whom he has sent. Jesus has the work of God of your believing. It's God's work in you, believing in Jesus. I'm quoting you to the word of God.

You're rebelling against God's word. No. Yeah. Uh-huh.

I do this to people all the time when I'm talking. I'm trying to logically make this make sense, because everything else about God is logical. I understand it, except for the Reformed doctrine. Like everything makes sense. Actually, Reformed doctrine is the most logical. It's the most logical. All right. Yes, it is. And I teach. You're explaining morals.

It's very logical. And if you want to say morals, you have to find a moral standard in scripture. You have to find it in scripture.

You can't just say you don't like it. I quoted you the verses that says what I believe, and you say it's Reformed and you don't like it. I quoted you Jesus saying you can't come to him unless it's granted to you from the Father.

John 6, 65. I showed you in Philippians 1, 29 that God grants that you have faith. Why doesn't he grant it to everybody? Why doesn't he do it to everybody? He grants that we have faith. Why doesn't he grant that to everyone?

Can you answer that question? He does. It's an open invitation to absolutely everybody. He doesn't hide it.

No, no, no. I didn't say he grants an invitation. He grants the act of believing in Christ.

God grants that to people. Okay? You're not being logical. What you're doing is hearing it and addressing something else. Okay? No, like I read the Bible, like when they were locked in prison and they didn't flee and the guards saw their good deeds.

They were like, oh my God, if you would have ran I would have died. Don't use the Lord's name in vain. Don't use the Lord's name in vain. Okay. How did I do that?

Distorted. Sorry. Yeah, yeah.

I voted. You know what I mean? So like I believe like even our good deeds bring people into faith. Our testimony, like it's. Can you show me that in scripture?

Can you show me those things in scripture, those doctrines you believe? Yeah, like the guys in prison. And the prison guard was like, wow, like you guys are truly of God. Yeah. Who is your God?

Yeah. Because there had been an earthquake, the jail doors were wide open and the guards were going to kill themselves because if the prisoners escape they're going to be killed. So the people in the jail says, no, no, no. He said, well, who are you? Undoubtedly he'd already heard about Paul a great deal, who these people were.

So he was already very influenced by what was going on. And then all the more he says, okay, that's because of John 644. You can't come to me unless the Father draws you. God draws people. Okay?

All right? So it's my understanding that after Christ risen it's absolutely a hundred, like if you, you can't reject Christ and so it's a hundred percent like Christ and his finished work at the cross that draws all men to God. Would you agree or do you believe still the Father has to draw you? Jesus says you can't come to me unless the Father draws you, John 644. That's why I believe you can't come to Christ unless the Father draws you. So I'm not still, you still believe that's effective today? Yes, because that's what Jesus said.

You can't come to him unless the Father draws you. That's why I believe that, John 644. Well, he said a lot of, he said other things that after the crucifixion that is no longer. Okay, I agree.

He said a lot of things, but we're going to move on. We've got our callers waiting and I've quoted you scripture. Bless your heart, man. You're fighting against the word of God, buddy. You've got to submit to God's word.

Read Romans, I mean John 6, okay? All right. Okay, let's see. Ooh, we just lost two guys at once. Let's get to Sean from Utah or some call it Utah. Welcome, Sean. You're on there. Utah. Hi, how are you? This is from Bill McKeever. So you, how's it going?

It's going. So you've told us that, good, you've told us that several times that man can't see God. There's several scriptures that say that they have. You talk about John, I don't know what you're thinking. John 6, 46, read that one for me. No, you can't, no one has seen God at any time. No one has seen the Father, John 6, 46. He's just talking about the Father, yeah.

And then what does it say? No one has seen the Father, just the one. They see which is of God.

No, no, no, no. They see which is of God. Can I read it or do you want to tell me?

Sure, go ahead, go ahead. Except the one who is from God, he has seen the Father. He's talking about himself. No, John 6, 46. Yes, no one has seen the Father except the one who is from God.

He has seen the Father. He's talking about himself. So you interpret it differently than what it says. If we're going to read the scriptures, let's read the scriptures that they are, right? Really?

Is that what you keep saying? Oh, so who is the one who's from God? Well, clearly it's Jesus Christ, but he's not the only one who's from God.

Well, am I from God? He's not the only one of God. If you go to 1 John 4, verse 4, what does it say? It says, Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them. So we can also be of God if Christ changes us.

Okay. And so if we become of God, then we too can see him. Oh, so you're going to see God?

Is that what you say? But notice it says has seen. It's past tense, not future tense.

In that case, sure, yeah. So who's he talking about who's not seen the Father? I'm the wicked. The wicked? Well, it doesn't say that.

Yeah. It doesn't say that. Well, that's everyone who's not of God, right? But look, you accused me of reading into the text, and then you do that very thing. Now, that means you're a hypocrite. You asked me a question, who does it exclude?

It doesn't say who it excludes. You're asking me to make it up. Hold on, hold on, buddy. Hold on. Okay, hold on. We're out of time.

There's the music. We can't go any further. Call me back tomorrow, and we'll go through it, okay? We're just out of time.

Call me back tomorrow. Okay. He doesn't get it. We're out of time, and he wants to keep going. We're out of time. May the Lord bless him, I hope with an open mind. Hey, we'll be right back tomorrow. God bless. Bye. We'll be right back.