The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network Podcast. So what I'm just telling you is that, hey, we're working it, trying to get things going fine, and all that stuff, and hopefully everything will be fine. And, coincidentally, now I'm having trouble with one of my headset things.
It won't con- oh, now it connects. Ay yi yi yi yi yi. Okay! You know, it just happens.
Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 8772072276. Whew. Okay. Oh, boy.
Man. Um, alright, as usual, you know, I'm always working on something. You know, I get some ideas, I do stuff. I like studying, and I wish I had time for a doctorate degree. I don't, but I wish I did.
I don't have the money and all that kind of stuff, but at any rate. So, you know, I was in bed last night, and I was thinking, because I do debates, and I do things with different groups. And one of the things I started working on a few days ago was, what I'd like to do is, it's hard to describe it, I will take my Bible program, and I will do a search, and let's see, how do I say this? I'll do a search for the phrase in the name, in the name, and find every single instance of that phrase in the entire Bible. For example, I've got them listed here, and I'm looking at it right now.
I've got about 50, 70, I think. And what I do is, I go through, oh boy, excuse me, I go through and say what it is. And I have a table and a column on the right of each verse, and I go through and analyze and say, okay, what's going on? What's happening here in that phrase? In Deuteronomy 18 to 5, the Lord your God has chosen him and his sons from all your tribes to stand and serve in the name of the Lord forever.
So, it's in the name of, there has the authority, and then the issue is to serve. And so I'm going through and finding that there's a lot of different usages of that phrase. Now, why am I doing that? Because I talk to people in cults. Now, you know, I know that I'm cut out for this kind of work because I get fascinated by looking at a phrase. I want to look in the Word of God, and I want to see how does God use this phrase, or how does God use this word?
There are many, many studies like this. They take me hours. And I learn. Now, why am I doing that one? Because there's a cult, the one that's a Pentecostal group, and they'll say to be baptized in the name of Jesus in order to be saved. In the name of, all right, which means you can't say in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but in the name of Jesus has to be the phrase, in the name of Jesus.
And they don't understand that in the name of is a designation of authority. And so, you know, I do a study like that. All right, another study that I'm doing is doing, this is going to be interesting, too.
I'm looking forward to finishing this one. But in Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Orthodoxy, they all say that faith and works are necessary for salvation. Then they say that faith has to have works. And it's not just faith, but it's faith that has to be real, faith that does things. That's what James talks about. And I explain. I say, yeah, of course.
You can't have what's called ascension, just mere mental ascent. You have to have fiducia, which is a trust and a belief in, a trust in. And so I'll tell them that. And it's really interesting, particularly with the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, because they submit the word of God to their church, to their organization, in their structure, magisterium. And they're entrenched in that philosophy. They cannot, they cannot see what I'm saying. It's really interesting. And I'm thinking about, you know, in a debate, one of my next debates, I'll have with them, I'll say, can you please explain my position during the cross-examination? I want to know if you even understand it.
I don't think they understand it because the things they say just don't make any sense. They deny salvation by grace alone to faith alone in Christ alone. It has to be by faith and works, but yet the works are the works God gives us.
But if you don't do the works, you can't be saved, but we're not saved by the works. So anyway, what I thought of doing was going in, I did a search, three or four searches and I combined them into, I can export them into Excel. And then once in Excel, I can do stuff. I used to teach Excel.
It's one of my jobs. I used to go teach software. And so I used to use it all the time and do all these kind of really cool things in Excel. Excel is a fantastic program. So I'll take these things and I'll put them into Excel and then I can sort them. I can do stuff.
Then what I do is I transfer them into a program, cleans up the code, and then I put it into HTML and blah, blah, blah. So that I can go in and look at what's happening in the phraseology of any instance. This is what's interesting. Any instance, for example, where Paul uses justification and or salvation and or faith and or works and or law. Any combination of those words in a verse or a couple of verses. And the reason is because I want to see how Paul uses them. Does he combine them or does he separate them?
And that's what I'm finding out. I'm finding out that in some verses, you know, for example, since indeed God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Well, that's the issue of justification that says by faith. But also we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. So here we have a section or verse where it's faith or justification by faith apart from the law.
And so there doesn't seem to be any place where he combines them the way they do. So you see, this is the kind of stuff I'm studying and I enjoy it. And when I tell my wife, she goes, what are you studying?
Well, I'm doing a compilation in a table that I've sorted through Excel on the issue of the way. She just stares at me like, you know, I'm talking Chinese and she has no idea what I'm doing. And she goes, well, OK, that's nice.
Talk to you later. I said, OK, good. I'm just going to go study. So I don't know why she can't see the great joy in what I do.
It's just awesome. Anyway, that's what I'm doing. And I'm learning stuff. And I'm also developing another table on the word Jesus and father or son and father, where all those verses occur in the New Testament and seeing what the relationship is. Because when I debate people in oneness, they want to say that Jesus is the father. But yet Jesus prays to the father. Jesus praises the father. The father hands all things to Jesus. The son reveals the father. The father reveals the truth to Simon.
The father alone knows. I got, you know, I got things that I think are interesting. So there you go. That's the kind of guy you're listening to here on the radio. Yeah, I know.
I know you could probably saying, glad you're doing it. Not me. Well, it's OK. Hey, we have to open lines if you want to give me a call. Eight, seven, seven, two, zero, seven, two, two, seven, six.
Elijah from Pennsylvania. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man, how you doing today? Doing all right. Hanging in there by God's grace, man.
What do you got, buddy? Yeah, I wanted to ask you. Have you ever heard of St. Patrick's purgatory? No.
St. Patrick's purgatory? Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. You might want to look it up. I found out about this two years ago when I was watching a documentary on the History Channel. It's called The Gates of Hell. And they were talking about, you know, the what different cultures believe in the ancient world about hell from Christianity.
Islam, like other Greek mythology, all that stuff. And and they brought up St. Patrick's purgatory, which is a island in the Republic of Ireland. And on this island, they had this Catholic cathedral. And and they believe that Christ showed St. Patrick a cave and it's sometimes referred to as a pit or a well on on a station island. And and it was believed that this was an entrance to purgatory. And what they teach here at this particular Catholic church, they teach that if you take a pilgrimage to this site, if you complete the pilgrimage three times in your life, you will never go to hell.
That's what they teach here. Wow. That's a load of crud. It is whacked superstition. Yeah. If you make a pilgrimage, you don't go to hell. What?
Oh, so you don't need Jesus, you know, and faith and trust in Christ. Yeah, that's pretty whacked. Yeah. I was looking at that just from looking it up. Yeah. It's a cave or whatever monasteries there. Well, since there's no such thing as purgatory anyway, it's not in the Bible.
So I mean, it's a doubly wrong. Wow. That's interesting, though. Never heard of it. Now I have heard of it. Appreciate that. Wow. Yeah, I just wanted to bring that to your attention, you know, just in case you never heard of that. Yeah, now I now I have.
Thanks. In fact, when I was in Turkey four or four years ago or so, we did a tour from Turkey and also in Israel. We went to a certain place where they're supposed to be caves that according to their lead to hell. And so there's different places that have different things.
In fact, this place, if I remember correctly, I forgot the name of it. There's sulfur that comes out. You can actually die from it.
Just something that comes from like a, you know, a volcanic whatever it is that just a vent. And so people, you know, when they're naked, they can die. Oh, it must be bad.
Must be hell. So, you know, it's just superstition. Yeah. Oh, well, interesting, though. Now I know. I have.
Yeah, I have. I have one more question. That's okay with you.
Yes. So, so my church, you know, we're Trinitarian church. And I know I know that you affirm that, you know, the spiritual gifts do continue today. And in my church, we do practice the spiritual gifts. You know, I, I received the gift of tongues, I think, at the end of 2020. And, you know, in my church, when when we when we pray over somebody to, you know, receive the gift of tongues, you know, you know, you know, nothing crazy ever happens.
Like, we don't never fall to the ground and starts revolting and stuff like that. Okay. Hold on, man. We got a break.
I want to hear what you had to say. So hold on. Okay. Because we got a break.
It's heartbreak. Okay. All right.
No problem. Hold on. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We'll continue to talk with Elijah from Pennsylvania. We have two open lines if you want to give me a call.
877-207-2276. Be right back. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show.
Two open lines. 877-207-2276. Elijah. All right. So we're talking about charismatic stuff. Okay.
Go ahead. So as I was saying, you know, my church is Trinitarian. We believe in practice and the spiritual gifts.
And I received the gift of speaking in tongues at the end of 2020. And, you know, I was saying that, you know, whenever my church lays hands on people and pray for them for the gift of tongues, you know, you know, nothing ever crazy happens where people, you know, fall down and start convulsing and, you know, stuff like that. But, you know, I've seen a lot of videos on YouTube of former Oneness Pentecostals who say that at their churches, when they lay hands on people there to have them get the gift of speaking in tongues, a lot of times they'll fall out and they'll start convulsing and all this stuff. Now, I don't know if that happens at all Pentecostals, Oneness Pentecostals churches, but, you know, What's your question? Yeah.
So my question would be, since the Oneness Pentecostals have a false god, they have a false gospel, do you also believe that they have a, that they have the wrong spirit or demonic spirit? Since when we read in scripture, we see that when people, you know, fall to the ground, they start convulsing. That's by demonic possession. Yeah.
So, there's a lot there. So, I won't say that someone who does that is automatically demonically possessed. Because you can have people who are psychologically susceptible to that kind of behavior. When I went to the Pentecostal church on Friday last week to meet David K. Bernard, the number one guy in Oneness, I watched what they did and they jumped, danced, and ran. Now, it wasn't them rolling on the floor. They weren't screaming.
They were very excited, very exuberant. I could see that happening in different cultural contexts and be it acceptable. You might have some culture, you know, on an island.
You could be, have it someplace in a jungle. You know, it just, some city in some, I don't know, you know, some country that I don't know about where that kind of stuff is what people just do. And it wouldn't mean that they were demonically possessed. It could mean that they're just doing what everybody else does. Now, it could mean that there's a demonic presence as well. But discerning those is very difficult. I don't have that discernment of spirit. So, you know, it's tough.
It's just a tough thing. And I do believe in the charismatic gifts and I do believe in all of them for today. But I don't believe in this wacko idiocy that occurs that is just ridiculous.
But I don't see anything in scripture that says the gifts have ceased. So that's my position. All right. Yeah, so that's all my questions for today. Okay. Sounds good. All right, man.
Keep listening, buddy. Okay. Thanks.
Have a good one. All right, Elijah. Okay, let's get to Noel from Virginia. Hey, Noel.
Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How are you? I'm all right. Hanging in there. Hopefully the internet will stay up. We'll see.
Anyway, so what do you got? Well, I just wanted you to elaborate between the ascension versus faith with works. Because I know personally having a Catholic background, you know, you know, how works are supposed to be evidence of faith.
So when you, what was the right word? When you start looking at your work to confirm your faith, like, I don't know, I just wanted you to elaborate on the ascension versus faith. Ascension is mental ascent. This is what the devil does.
This is what demonic forces do. They just acknowledge that God exists. So ascension is like a mental acknowledgement. Fiducia is a trust, putting a trust in and confidence in. So someone might have belief that God exists but doesn't trust God. Might have belief that Christ lived but doesn't put trust and faith in his crucifixion, resurrection.
Doesn't trust what Jesus did. And so that would be the difference between ascension, just acknowledgement, and fiducia, which is trust in. So fiducia works with regeneration. Our trust works with regeneration because we are regenerate and we believe they're concomitant. Now I believe in what's called logical priority of regeneration preceding faith, in that they're not temporally distinct but they are simultaneous, these events, but one is logically prior to the other. So regeneration must be there at the same time in order for us to be able to believe because the unbeliever cannot receive the things of God, etc. And so God regenerates us and simultaneously we believe. But regeneration is the cause of our belief and so it's logical priority. And likewise, regeneration is the cause of our good works. And faith is what we profess and works are what we do.
And so they should match. This is why it says in 1 John 2 that if you say you know him and don't keep his commandments, the truth is not in you and you're a liar. So if you say you're a Christian and there's no works, then that's ascension. You're saying it but there's nothing there. Just like the demonic forces can believe that God exists but they don't have any good works that show it. So the belief they have is what we call ascension, not fiducia. And that's the difference. Does that help?
Yeah, it does. Okay, so I guess one more question would be can a regenerate person struggle with trust? Of course, because we're sinners.
Yeah, of course we do. And the thing is that according to James, let's see. Let's see if I go to James because it's good stuff here when it says this. Yeah, if you go to James 2, 22, you see that faith was working with his works, that's Abraham. And as a result of the works, his faith was perfected. So Abraham even had his faith worked on and polished by God and through Abraham's works. So as we go through our Christian lives, hopefully we learn more and more how to trust in our Lord. And we look back on, boy, those five times that were really tough, he delivered us.
He delivered my wife and I. And so the works of going through and professing and living have perfected my faith in Christ or made it, I like to say in bad English, more better. And it's improved it. That's why I have more confidence.
And that's what's going on. And so our works are the result of regeneration, good works are. People don't realize that we behave based on what we believe. If someone's unregenerate, they're not going to believe and trust in God and their works won't be related to that. But true belief is because of or has true works.
That's why it works there with regeneration. Okay, Noel. All right. All right, thank you. All right.
Well, God bless. Thanks for calling. All right. Hey, we have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show.
Three open lines. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Gary from Ohio. Gary, welcome. Nice to be here.
Thanks, man. Hey, I wanted to run something by you. I don't know if this is in the Bible. I was listening to a pastor that I enjoy.
It was David Jeremiah. He's good. And yeah, he was saying, man, this is so fascinating. It's unbelievable.
I need to go back and look the video up and just save it. But he was mentioning our resurrected body. He said that we will eat, we won't need food. He says we won't need water. And he went on to say that blood is 90% water. He says, but we won't need food or water.
Yeah, most probably. We do these things in our physical body now to sustain the energy of our body. But in the resurrection, the implication is that God will be our source. We won't need to eat. So some speculate that we can eat. But then think about that.
If we can eat in our resurrected bodies, do we have to use a restroom? So I don't know. So these are all just speculations. So I don't say that. It's speculative? Okay. It's very speculative. And I just didn't get at that. Yeah, I got you. I didn't know if it said anything in the Bible. You just told me what it had said in the Bible, though.
Yeah, it's speculative. Okay. I got you, brother. That's it.
You know? Okay. Well, hey, I appreciate it, brother. Thanks, man. God bless you. No problem, man. God bless you. All right.
All right. Hey, if you want to give me a call, everybody, we have four of the lines. And waiting for you, give me a call, 877-207-2276.
Let's get to Jose from Texas. Hey, man. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man. How are you doing today? Doing all right. Hang in there. What do you got, buddy?
Hey, man. Hey, just following up that last question that the caller just asked, my question is kind of similar, but it's about the beatings of Christ. My question is, since Christ forgave us for our sins, why is it that the believers are going to face him to judge, I guess, the judgment seat of Christ? I believe that's the believers, correct?
Or is that for... Yeah. What it's going to say here, we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body according to what he has done, whether good or bad. So that's 2 Corinthians 5, 10. But it does not mean that that's what is judgment for salvation. It's a reward, loss of reward based on what we've done with what God has granted to us.
Okay. So in other words, these people are going to face Christ in that instance of Christ. Is that only believers? Is that all humans who ever lived?
It looks like it's going to be everybody. We must all, it says. So the Christians are going to face God for the judgment of what we have done and have rewards or loss of rewards in heaven. But whether we've done a lot of good or not very much good, it won't have any bearing on whether or not we're justified. Justification occurs by faith apart from our works. Romans 3, 28, Romans 4, 5. So this is about rewards for good and bad deeds. So it makes sense to say that the very same thing will happen to the unbelievers. And I forgot where the verse is, but some says they'll be beaten with many stripes and some with few. So the idea of the afterlife punishment is that they're going to have different degrees of punishment. So if you have a little old lady who's just been baking cookies for everybody her whole life, really sweet lady, and she denies Christ and doesn't believe in it when she dies, she's going to go to hell. And if you have a gang leader who, and we can list out all kinds of evils that this guy's committed for decades, and he dies, he's also going to hell.
But his punishment will be worse than hers. Okay, so I guess people will be punished based on their works. Okay. Yep.
And reward from works. Right. Uh-huh.
That's right. Okay, so my other question is too, Matt. You mentioned earlier in the call that, you know, our works, not thinking about works, you know, for example, like our good works, I'm not sure exactly on the line you said, but you said that our good works come from whoever we believe. In other words, if we place our faith in Christ, then good works will come out to it. But it depends on who will believe. I actually like what you said earlier, do you have an article about that so I can go ahead and study more about it or anything related to that?
Wait, so on the issue of what? Of relationship between faith and works? Yeah, I think you mentioned earlier, I'm sorry, I think you mentioned earlier in the call, you said that if we place our faith in Christ, that would produce good works or something like that. But anyway, you mentioned how if we, if unbeliever produces bad works, it's because, you know, they're not believing in Christ or whatever the case is. So it all affects who you believe.
I think, I think I could mention earlier, I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, you could go to, you could go to Karm and look up in the search engine, faith and works and rewards and punishment, and you'll find varying articles that are there. And that's what I'd recommend you do is go there. In fact, I'm looking in the stream yard because they often put stuff in, we say about faith alone, do we need works too? That's one of the links. What is the relationship between faith and works? There's a, that's the article right there.
What is the relationship between faith and works? I could check that one out on Karm because there is a relationship. There is. Yeah, right. All right. All right, Matt. Hey, yeah. So anyways, if, if in case David Bernard does decide to debate you at Austin, let me know because I'm like 30, 40 minutes away from church.
Oh yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm going to email him probably this by the end of the week and I've given him time to settle in from being here in Idaho and offer to have a debate again. I'm sure he'll deny it and, or not deny it, but he won't want to do it. And, um, but maybe I can have a, a discussion with him.
Right. But the thing is I noticed when I had a discussion with him before he became interruptive and uh, it was difficult because I'd, he'd ask a question, I'd begin to answer the question and then he would cut me off and ask another question. So it would, what I, I gathered out of it was he's accustomed to talking to people who don't have answers. And so he'll ask a question, they get stumped and he's going to shoot them again, another, another. But when someone starts coming back with answers, he doesn't want to hear that. That was my conclusion. And therefore he, uh, went to another question, which I could answer everything he asked, I could answer and expound on quite a bit, but he didn't want me to do that.
And so, uh, you know, and that was just that situation. But so if we were to have a discussion, I would say, here's the thing. We've got to let it, let each other finish our thoughts. Okay. If you ask a question, we need to be able to answer that question and not cut me off or, or vice versa. You know, it's all real simple. All right. Well, let's hope that happens.
Let's hope he, he, uh, uh, expresses the day or discussion or dialogue, whatever the case is. A lot of people can leave at her seat. Well, you know, two of my daughters live in Austin and I have a good, yep. I have a good friend who lives in Austin and the atheist community is heavy in Austin. So if I were to go down there, I would want to stay for a week and see if I get some debates and maybe speak at a church or two if they wanted me to, um, go to a Bible study, you know, just basically I'd love to go to Bible study sometime and just cause problems, ask questions.
So the pastor has a lot to do, a lot of work to clean up. It'd be fun. You know, I'd say that I'm smiling, but you know, um, but anyways, uh, all right, well, all right now anyway, we'll talk soon. All right. Good one. You too. God bless. All right. Okay. Folks. We have five open lines. Why don't you give me a call?
Nobody waiting. 877-207-2276. You know, he reminded me and I was joking around about going into causing problems. I like to teach. I love to teach.
In fact, I'll be teaching tonight online on, uh, Lord willing on clubhouse and you can do that on your phone. And I go in each Wednesday night and I speak for a couple of hours. People ask me questions and go in and we do some teaching.
Sometimes I've been prompted to debate as well. So I remember once, uh, a youth pastor asked me to go into a Bible study group at a church and pretend out some guy off the street and give him a hard time. They didn't know who I was except for one guy in the Bible study did. You know, that I answered questions and, um, and did apologetics.
And so he, uh, he didn't say anything while I was in this group because he was, don't say anything. Okay. It was okay. It's all good. And man, I messed them up. I messed them up so good. But it was just by asking simple questions and, uh, I didn't lie.
Didn't deceive them. But I said, well, what about this? What about that?
What about this? And, um, oh man, they were talking about that for years afterwards. She goes, man, you really, you really shook us up. I says, yeah, you need to study. You need to study. Any rate. Uh, Hey, we have five open lines. Give me a call.
877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
This is Matt Slick. Okay. Welcome back to the show.
Everyone. Last segment of the hour. If you want to give me a call for open lines, 877-207-2276 Randall from North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. All right. How are you doing? Doing all right. Yeah. Hanging in there. So where do you go?
Okay. So, uh, I was born and raised in Texas, a Baptist sort of education background and, uh, ended up getting married and my wife is, uh, she goes to a church that's more charismatic. And uh, so I ended up started going to that church thinking that, you know, I ended up sort of believing that, uh, gifts are for today, um, and that I don't really where C-stationism occurs in the Bible. And I understand that there are just patients for it.
I think it's a secondary issue, so I didn't think it was a big deal. However, I noticed, um, some sort of practices and the church that I'm going to, and, uh, I was going to ask what your thoughts were, specifically when it comes to somebody who's claiming that they're a prophet and claiming that they have a word for God, that God told them this and that this will come to pass. I've had a lot of people tell me that and, and then those things don't come to pass.
Or, you know, uh, maybe, maybe part of it does and part of it doesn't. And to me, I think it's a very serious thing to call yourself a prophet and, you know, to say that, you know, you're hearing from God as not something to, you know, uh, fake. And so I just wanted to get your perspective on that.
Yeah. You know, if you go to 1 Corinthians 14, it says, uh, pursue gifts, uh, especially that you may prophesy. And then it talks about the work of prophets in the church, but what it prophesies speaks to men for the edification, exhortation and consolation. What it prophesies edifies the church. And uh, so there's, there's a lot of that mentioned in that chapter. So when it says, when you come together and one has a prophecy, one has a tongue, let it be done in order.
All right. So I'm a continuationist and I'm assuming what you said, you are too. And I believe, excuse me, I believe that all the charismatic gifts are for today. I don't believe they're the same way held by the apostles. I believe the apostles had certain power, authority because of just being apostles of Christ directly.
And they could do things on command and stuff anyway. So can we prophesy? Well, I can tell you that I have prophesied once and it came to pass and I've had, I would consider a word of knowledge once and it seemed to be accurate. Both of those instances, not that I'm making doctrine out of any of my experiences, but both of those instances had a profound effect on me. And I'm not saying that what my experience is how others ought to be, but when you hear someone get up and say, you know, I was talking to God last night and God told me, blah, blah, blah. No, I'm going to tell you.
Really? So the infinite God of the universe decided to communicate with you and how's it going for you? Are you done crying yet? Are you done sobbing in the presence of God? Oh no, oh no, it's just a, oh, okay, you know, you and your buddy God were talking last night.
Oh, I get it. That kind of a flippant kind of a casual thing when they say that, oh, I have a word from God. Well, I don't believe it. If someone, in my opinion, really is from God, it's going to say something to the effect of, look, because it says in first Corinthians 14, let the church judge, say, I think I might have something from the Lord, but I don't know if it is, it could be my sinful flesh.
Here it is. And let's look at it compared to scripture and as it says, let others judge whether it's true or false. And if I've spoken presumptuously, not making a prophecy, but saying, I think God might be saying this, you're being very cautious, you're being respectful. I think that's permittable. And if such a person were to get this wrong, say three, four, five times in a row, then that person ought to have clued in by that time, nope, you're just not getting it.
You might want to just settle down. If however things start coming to pass, okay, well then we can have the evidence that such things are from God. What's happening, unfortunately, in the church today is too many people are submitting the word of God to their feelings and instead of holding the word of God in his proper place as a final authority, they want to get a word of knowledge, a tongue, an interpretation of tongue or a prophecy or a teaching. And they want to do these things and sometimes it's to gain respect. Sometimes it's to gain self-assurance, sometimes it's to show people their spirituality.
We can't read their hearts. So we've got to be very careful about this. If I were a pastor of a church and during a service I was preaching and someone got up and said, you know, Pastor Matt, I think I have a word from God. I'd say all right, would you please then hold that back and then after the service we'll talk about it. And if they said, okay, that sounds good, no problem. If they said, no, it needs to be said now, I'd say, no, it does not. The spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophet so you should be able to control it. And if a person says, no, I've got to say it right now, that's out of order.
And I'd say, no, and then have the elders talk to that person and say, you know, that's not how it's going to work here. So things need to be done that way and with great caution. It seems to me that a lot of people who move in the charismatic movement don't have that caution and awe and fear that ought to be present with such things that come from God. And so I think it's because they don't respect him.
That is definitely an experience and I don't need to cut you off. I wanted to ask, one thing that's been taught to me is that in this new church is that there are examples of prophets in the Bible who prophesied something was incorrect because I often tell them, you know, I don't see an example. And the example that they tried to use was Jonah and the whale, saying that Jonah, they tried to use that example.
And to me, if that is an example, it's a terrible example. Do you think that there's any instances in the Bible where a prophet was incorrect? No, because if you're speaking from God, according to Deuteronomy 18, it cannot be a failed prophecy. It cannot be that way. And so if it is a failed prophecy, then it's not from God.
Now, as far as the issue of Job goes, let me, I've written on this particular issue. I'm trying to find Jonah, that's right, Job. Let's see, it's Jonah 3 verses 4 and 10. And there is a verse, there it is. In Jeremiah 18, 8, if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I've planned to bring on it.
So we know that God has stated, and this is part of how he works. Jonah went to Nineveh and prophesied over them, you're going to be destroyed. Nineveh repented. So their repentance was consistent with Jeremiah 18, 8. If the nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. That's Jeremiah 18, 8. So God's saying, okay, this is what's happening to you.
You guys are going to, you know, a tornado coming in, an earthquake coming in, a flood coming in, locusts coming in, you know, a bunch of pandas are going to take all your cows away, whatever it's going to be. And the nation says, okay, well, we repent. And God says, okay, not going to do it then. Well, that's a false prophecy, right? No, it's not. And so, because God has stated in Jeremiah 18, 8.
So they need to understand that that is part of the whole of scripture. And furthermore, you want some interesting trivia about that? Is that Nineveh was a seafaring culture and it was like 40 or 50 miles from the ocean.
And why is that? Its location was away from the shore. I forget exactly how far away it was. And there's some theories about that, about the relationship of Mars and the moon and tidal waves, but tides that were so big that they had to move their land back or their cities back away from the land every now and then from the ocean because the congruence of Mars and the moon, it's really fascinating, I could get into details about it, would cause a really high tide, but things changed. It's something else.
And Nineveh, having their eyes on the sea, Jonah came out of the belly of the fish. And so it was speaking to them from the means by which they understood. I can get into more details, but it's just interesting. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, yeah.
Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you explaining all that. I'd love to ask you a million questions. Sure.
I don't know how much time you have or if that's enough for you, but I just want to thank you. Go ahead if you have another question. Yeah. So I have other general perspectives on Bethel, as far as the church that I go to, Castle Fire, and it's very closely affiliated with Bethel, we have Bethel to come and they do a lot of the prophesying. Bethel. Okay.
Okay. Can you explain me for a second, I've heard what Bill Johnson says, and I've always had a negative story. Bill Johnson's denied Christ.
Yeah, he's denied Christ. So what I would suggest that you do is go over to karm.org, forward slash, let's see, N-A-R. Let's see if it'll go to it. And it goes to questions about the new apostolic reformation.
So what I would do, okay, we've got a couple of minutes. You go to the KARM website, you go to minor groups and issues, come on, there we go. And you go down to the category of topics of N, and open up new apostolic reformation.
Go through and read. Now, I've got a lot more work I've got to do on this, but it's a heretical movement. Not to say that they want to have apostles and prophets means it's heretical. There's problems with that. But there are, let's put it this way, I'll just say it directly, there probably will move into a deeper apostasy moving into the New Age movement and become authoritarian and cultic.
That's probably what's going to be what's going to happen. It's not a prophecy, but it's what I assume will happen because of some of the things I've read from them and have encountered when I went to Bethel and stuff. So you could go there to my website and read up on some of the quotes.
And I would really, if I were you, go and read the physics of heaven, read the quotes from the physics of heaven, which is a popular NAR book approved by a lot of NAR pastors. And it is whacked. I mean whacked, okay? You can call tomorrow and I can just read some of the quotes from this book that so many have approved of this book. I mean it's New Age. It is bad news, okay?
Well I really appreciate you sharing that and yeah, explaining a lot to me. What was the name of the website one last time? What? You heretic. You don't know CARM? Oh my goodness.
How could I? Oh, that just cuts me to the quick. CARM.org. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, okay?
Christian apologetics research ministry. Okay. CARM.org. Check it out. Forgive me.
Yeah, go there and check it out. All right. Thank you, sir. All right, brother. God bless. Hey, there's the music. Perfect timing.
I like it when that happens. May the Lord bless you by His grace. We'll be back on there tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. So I hope you have a great evening. By the way, I should be on Clubhouse tonight and two hours from now, 9 p.m. Eastern time, just answering questions and teaching theology. May the Lord bless you. Thank you. Thank you.
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