Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Uh There we go. All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. Hey, if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. And you can also email me info at carm.org, info at carm.org.

Put in the subject line, radio comment or radio question, something like that. Or Matt is great. I'll get my attention. How about that? We can try that one.

Matt is great, you know. And then I can show it to my wife and see what she does and tell you her reactions. Usually, she has a variety of actions. And they are scoped out in basically things like. Eye rolls, forehead rubbing, blank staring, a slow shaking of the head, exhales, or combination of them as she slowly leaves.

So, anyway, there you go. I want to hear Famic Gaming Call. We've got nobody waiting right now.

So, uh. Today, I walk around the block because one of those days you can't wake up. You know, you just wake up and you're just dragging all over the park, all over the place.

So, right before the radio show, I did about a half hour of just walking around the block and put a wet rag around my neck and kept going and did some theological discussions. I often like to go into chat rooms while I'm walking. I have a headset and a whole bit. goes to my phone. It's got a a wind screen on it so that I can talk in wind and and it was interesting discussions.

And it was kind of interesting in that the very thing that I was working on As a potential article/slash video is the thing they asked about. And so what I thought I might do was just talk about it a little bit and uh see what people think. It's not a big deal. Uh I was just uh what I was doing was writing a logistical thing, which I'm thinking about turning into an article and um and then video. I'm trying to get some video stuff going too.

And it was really simple. It's not a big deal. So, the Catholic and the East Orthodox Church, I hear this from people all the time. We gave you the Bible, our church gave you the Bible. And so, this is what I was working on, and it was an article, and just the first draft.

I'll read some of the first draft stuff. And some of the logical problems and mistakes that are there in that. I want to do a vid. And that's what they called up. I mean, I go into these various rooms and they just start asking me questions.

And so uh They were talking about the church and authority in the Bible. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Anyway, I got to kick out of it.

So uh here we go.

So it's basic stuff. You see Uh if they say The Catholic Ordean Orthodox Church says that they gave us the Bible, then the implication is that Scripture derives its authority from the Church.

Now, this is a serious issue because if they say that the Church gives the Scripture its authority because it gave us the Bible, The church's authority to tell us what Scripture is, then it is above Scripture. And that's a problem.

So it would also mean that it is the authenticator of Scripture and the interpreter, the final arbiter of what Scripture means.

So this is problematic.

Okay, so in other words uh The kind of like kind of like a corollary would mean the church, without the church, there is no Bible. Which is not logical. Because God's Word is independent of the Church. And it would mean, from their perspective, that the Bible is dependent on the church. And so I ask them a lot of times.

Well, who gave us the Old Testament? And they say the church did. And I say Man, I said like I said, uh you know, I'll I'll ask him.

So was your your church structure with the bells and smells and the gold and the silver and the ecclesiastical robes and the priesthood and the authority and everything, uh was that around at the time of Moses? when he wrote the scriptures.

Well, of course not. But they like to uh do whatever they can to say that the church there. The church, their particular church, gave them the authority. And this is the kind of thing I run into quite a bit. Is our church is the true church.

Mormonism says it, Jehovah's Witnesses, Victor Paul Weir will, the Wayne International will say it. Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, whatever it is. Our church is the true church. And because we have the march of a true church, we have apostolic succession, we have whatever it is. They always claim this stuff.

And uh I have argued it. thousands of times over decades, and they have the same arguments. It's just pretty bad stuff. But anyway, so what they're saying is the Bible depends upon the church, the church's authority, the church's authenticity, the church's ability.

So That's a problem.

Okay, because it means no church there is no Bible. But then the church derives its authority from the Bible, which is a a problem of circularity. You see, they'll say, when I ask them, well, where do you get your authority?

Well, the Bible tells us that Jesus left the church. Oh, so using the scriptures to authenticate your church? That means the greater is uh an authority as the Bible. And then they say, no, it's equal.

Well, then, why did you turn to the scripture to authenticate the church? Because you turned to the church to authenticate the scripture? Or does God's Word self-authenticate? And these are the questions I'm going to ask them. But of course, answers would require objectivity and.

actual regeneration to be able to argue and and talk about it.

So here's how it really is. The church recognizes the inspired word of God. It doesn't give it to us. It does not declare it to be so. It simply recognizes.

It's like imagine a bunch of sheep out there talking at a pasture, and there's several pastors out there, you know, shepherds, I should say, and the sheep are all talking among themselves.

Well, our pastor is the first one, and our shepherd, that is, the first one, and the authentic one, etc. Uh and we know it because we told him that he is.

Well, that's what I'm saying. The church tells. the authentication of the scripture what it is. Same kind of thing. It doesn't make any sense.

But that's what they do.

So instead, The shape recognizes So they could be talking amongst themselves, and all of a sudden the shepherd calls, and some of the sheep raise their head up. That's my shepherd. I recognize him. They don't declare him to be the shepherd. They recognize him as already being so.

And that's how the word of God goes, okay?

Now, if the church has the authority, it must derive its authority from the Bible. But if the Bible is authorized by the church, then we have a circular impossibility. In other words, the church authenticates the Bible and the Bible authenticates the church. It is self-defeating because it assumes what it's trying to prove. The authority is circular because both authorities reference each other in a closed system.

It is a self-referential circle. There's no way to get out of this kind of thing unless you Well, go to Scripture. Let's do that. James 1:18 says, In the exercise of his will, he brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of firstfruits among people. His creatures.

So he brought us forth by the word. The people of God are brought forth by the Word of truth. not by a church. 1 Peter 1:23, For you have been born again, not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring Word of God. even brought forth By the Word of God.

The Word of God is the source. The Word of God is the truth. It's simple. And I try and teach people this. And When When I I I walk, I I do a lot of walking, particularly when when the weather permits it.

I'm up here in Idaho during the winter I don't walk, of course. Outside. I have a mile-long circuit. It's one mile. I drove my car around it and said one mile to the dot.

Oh, yeah, perfect. I love that. And when I go out from my cul-de-sac, I always turn to the right, because that's biblical. And so I want to go the right way and I walk around this one mile circuit. It takes me 20 minutes, and it's a good, a good pace.

And what I'll often do is bring my headset, my phone, and I'll get online and I'll just discuss, and it helps my cardio and stuff like that. And so I go into these different places and I just tell people: look, I'm walking. I don't have my Bible next to me. I'll just have you everything from memory, and we have discussions. And this happens frequently, and I do it daily, about two to four miles a day.

and stuff like that.

So anyway, the point is that I get these uh these long uh discussions uh from the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Mormons, some not not very often the J Dubs, very rarely the J Dubs now, uh Oriental Orthodoxies and things like that about how their church is the true church. And the authority rests in their church. This is the key the critical issue. The authority rests in their church. And when I say this, I actually am visualizing Different sidewalks that I have walked around and over and upon around my mile circuit as I'm focusing on the sidewalks, I'm listening to them.

And then I have these sidewalks in my head associated of all things, associated with certain arguments.

So I guess it's a it's appropriate cement with some of their darn uh stubborn arguments that they have. Anyway, a little humor there.

So I've heard this so many times, and I continue to do the same thing. I continue to say the same thing. That the sheep recognize the voice of their master. Jesus is the master. He is the author of the word.

We recognize what he says. The church did not declare the word to be authoritative. It recognized its authority. Just like the sheep having the discussion in the pasture, talking about the different shepherds, and the one shepherd calls them. The sheep does not say, I gave that shepherd its authority, or the word that he speaks I judge as being true.

No. No, no, no. And on the contrary, they simply recognize the truth. and act accordingly. and they say to the other sheep, No, no, no, that's not my shepherd.

That voice over there, that's a different one altogether. It's not mine. If Jesus says, My sheep hear my voice, He also said in John 10, 11, he says, I lay my life down for the sheep. In John 10, 26, he says, you're not my sheep.

So it's really interesting how this analogy of the shepherd and the word. fits together rather well to support the idea that the Scriptures themselves are not declared by the sheep. by the church. But they are recognized by the sheep, by the church, because the authority is inherent in the shepherd. in the speech and the word of that shepherd.

It's just simply natural to the shepherd. Jesus is the shepherd. He is the one who transcends both old and new testament times. He is the one who is the way, the truth, and the life. A church is not the way, the truth, and the life.

So if anybody tells you that you are to listen to their church or join their church for salvation. Then they're not listening to the shepherd who says in Matthew 11:28, Come to me. All who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Because when you go into these churches that have all this authority, along with that authority is the bells and smells, the whistles, the gold, the silver, the rituals, the bowing before statues, the bowing and praying to the ancients, and the system of salvation that is interwoven in their true church. and their true church is not a true church.

because it doesn't submit strictly to the Word of God.

So, stay away from those groups and follow Christ and believe in the simplicity of the gospel, which is simple. You see, it's easy. God in flesh died on the cross. He bore our sins in his body on that cross. And he is the one who saves us.

And what we do is we believe and we trust and we receive what Christ did. We believe in what He did. That's why the Bible says we're justified by faith, Romans five one. or by grace through faith you have been saved, Ephesians two eight and nine. Our salvation is simple.

It's simple for us. Because it was hard for him. It's simple for us because what we do is receive. John 1:12. We believe, Ephesians 2, 8, and 9.

Romans 5, 1. We believe and therefore are justified. Romans 3:28. Romans 4, 5. That's what makes us Christians.

That's what makes us born again. Not membership in a church. There's a music, I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. I hope you're having a good time listening. And a little intro there.

Hey, I think I'm going to get to some emails because we don't have anybody calling right now. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. All right, let's get to some email. Let's see. The book I was referring to a few days ago, this gentleman says, Eternity in Their Hearts by Don Richardson.

It is a good book. It really is a good book. I recommend it. Here's another book I recommend. This is going to blow you away: William the Baptist.

William the Baptist. I've got to see if I can find it on Amazon. I think it is there. It's a book I've read a few times. William the Baptist.

Guarantee. Yeah, it's by James Cheney. That's it. I guarantee it'll make you think. It is really interesting.

Bad at all, but it's one of those books you go. Whoa. I never thought of that. happens a lot. Anyway.

There's that one.

Alright, so he asks a question: Will God allow anybody in heaven that does not want to be there? Uh This would never happen. God would not allow that he's forcing them to come into his blessing and he's forcing them not to want to go to hell. It wouldn't make sense to say that God wouldn't do that because he changes their heart and their mind.

So they want to be with God. That's part of what it means when 1 Peter 1:3 says, God has caused us to be born again. And we are regenerated and changed, made new creatures. 2 Corinthians 5, 5:17. This is by the grace of God, not by our grace.

This is by God's work. And so our hearts, our minds are changed. And He grants that we come to faith in Him. Philippians 1:29, John 6:29.

So it's not the case that anyone would not. want to be there, okay. All right, let's see. I have a follow-up question. It's another email on divorce and remarriage from my initial email a few weeks ago.

The Church of Christ. has a lot of s articles exactly why they believe a second marriage is continuing sin, why divorce is necessary to repent. That's foolishness on their part. The Church of Christ is a cult anyway. Anyway, the Church of Christ, the the Church of Christ that teaches baptism is necessary for salvation, blah, blah, blah.

Okay, so could you respond to their claims? I could if I had their documents there and I could write some responses. I've had a very long year trying to sort through it and I need to understand it biblically. Um I said, Lord, who would redeem my marriage? Uh I would say that we need to talk over the phone.

Savannah, I'd say that uh we you know, we just need to go through and talk some stuff. Uh So Um You know I'm going to put that in there. Um We can talk over the phone. Because a lot of times these issues about marriage are they involve things that Sometimes, you know, you don't want it spoken of over the air. And So what I'd like to do is be able to talk to someone and um Just, you know, just see where they're at and try and help them out and put them at ease.

in their marriage. But the Church of Christ is a non-Christian uh false religion teaches baptism as necessary for salvation, so it adds a work ceremony to the gospel. And there are grounds for divorce. One is if your partner, your your spouse commits adultery and the other one is if uh the your uh your spouse abandons you.

So that's what it is. And under those conditions, divorce is allowed. A divorce is allowed under those uh those conditions are right.

Alright, let's see.

Okay. Mm-hmm. Not sure what's going on with this with the audio, but that's I get words that they're saying it's a problem. Let's see. Next one.

What would you say to an atheist who says the Trinity is illogical? I've had many atheists say that. Excuse me, Muslims will say it. And I'll say, okay. Show me uh What is by statements, logical statements, show me how the Trinity is illogical.

And no one's ever been able to do it.

Now, they will often, however, misrepresent the Trinity by saying, Well, the Trinity says that three is actually one.

Well, what do you mean three is one? Three three what and one what? You have to be more specific. If you're saying, if you say the Trinity doctrine is that numerically three persons is actually one person, Well, that's not what we teach, and that's not a logical possession of the Trinitarian dogma.

So I often ask them, would you please explain what you think the Trinity is? And then what this often happens a lot like this. I will say, well, that's not what the Trinity is. And they'll say, yes, it is. I'll say, well, no, it's not.

And they say, Yes, it is. And I say, Look, I've been doing this for 45 years, teaching on the Trinity. That's not it. Oh, now you're boasting. And so, you know, no matter what you say, they uh they just they just negate what you what you have to say about it.

So, it's, you know, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, but that's just what it is. All right, let's try. And then we got a collar, that's right. Let's get to Anthony from Kentucky.

Anthony, welcome. You're on the air. Thanks, brother. I just want to start off by saying I've been listening and reading material on your website Carm.org for a couple decades, and I've been very blessed by your ministry. And I truly believe that you are one of those brothers who I have a lot of respect for and had been used By Christ to advance his kingdom, and wanted to say thank you for that.

Also, I wanted to See if you were open to maybe a more informal kind of discussion sometime. whether it be by email, if that's more comfortable to you or be a phone call because I did have some questions Um that I'm wondering. how you might respond to some of these things. As I've been kind of dealing with some of these questions. In regards to Church history, normative authority, whether or not some of these things have the implications that some of our Catholic and Orthodox friends say that they actually do.

Um and so Yes, I was wondering if you might be open to that. Sure, I'm open to that. We could also ask questions here now, but yeah, if you want to just do it off air, you could do that. We could talk via phone. You can just email me.

And say, hey, this is Jacob from Dayton, Ohio, and here's your phone number. when we could talk. Or you can ask questions now and go over it. It's up to you. Yeah.

That would be awesome. That would be awesome. I'm going to do it that way just because There are some that you know, the nature of some of the questions that I would ask are, you know, kind of revealing, somewhat personal. You know, I've got a family and four kids, and Yeah.

Okay. Uh Sure, no problem at all. Yeah, that's okay.

Okay. Sound good? Nope.

Sounds good. Thank you, brother. God bless. All right, man.

Well, God bless.

Okay. All right.

Okay. Now let's get to Jacob from Dayton, Ohio. Jacob, welcome. You're on here. Yeah.

Oh, hang on in there, man. Hang on in there. What do you got?

So I had a couple questions and then I was kinda I um I go to a Baptist church and I'm Kind of look into other denominations. I mean, we're a strict. you know Bible related church, like if it's not in the Bible, you know, we don't preach it. But what is your view on that like Baptism and salvation might be things that should be a necessary part of the process or. Let's talk about it.

We got a break, and it's a good discussion. And we'll lay it out biblically what it is and isn't.

Okay? After the break, hold on. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages, please. Stay channel. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right and welcome. Whoa, I had a cough there. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

I think we just lost the audio.

Well, can't do anything about it right now. The audio on the feed on the internet. Let's get back to Jacob from. Here we go right there. Jacob from Ohio.

Hey Jacob, welcome to our year again. Yeah, I'm still here.

Okay. So what do you got, buddy? Right. Uh my question I had another Bab said, like, what's your What's your opinion on because I go to Baptist church and like I said, but we we preach, you know, everything from the Bible. There's no outside opinion.

I've never heard them bluntly say, you know, you have to be baptized in order to be saved.

So it's not like that. I'm just curious on what your opinion is.

Well, okay, justification is a legal declaration of righteousness.

So I'm going to read you some scriptures. We're going to go over this. I'm going to lay this out.

Alright? I'm going to start with Romans 4. I'm going to go through five verses. This is critical, and you'll see why it's necessary. What then shall we say that Abraham our forefather according to the flesh is found?

For if Abraham was justified, now the word justification here is going to be critical. Justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

So Abraham believed God, it was credited to him as righteousness. Belief.

Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but what is due. But to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So justification is the crediting of righteousness by faith. That's it. Okay. So So, I've also got a file that let me see if I can find it really fast. Open up a file.

I've been going through something and.

So the Bible says, for example, when I get this studio, all right? Romans 3.22, righteousness of God through faith. Romans 3.25, propitiation in his blood through faith. Romans 3.26, the justifier of the will who has faith in Jesus. 3.28, a man is justified by faith, apart from the works of the law.

Romans 3.30, justify the circumcised by faith. Romans 4:5, the one that does not work but believes.

Okay, Romans 4:9, faith. I can go on and on and on. By faith, by faith, by faith.

Now, so I ask people. Are you justified by faith according to the scriptures? And they say, yes. And I say, are you justified by faith when you have faith? And the answer is yes.

Well, then, if you're justified by faith when you have faith. Then you don't need to get baptized to be saved because to be saved is to be justified.

Okay. Now they'll come back and they'll say, well, wait a minute, doesn't the Bible say that baptism for the remission of sins?

Okay. And I say, well, first of all, Here's a question. Are you? studying scripture against scripture. That's the first thing I ask him.

Okay, and because I don't want them to get in the habit of saying, well, you said this, and the Bible says, but over here it says this.

Now they're setting God's word against itself. That's a problem.

So I'll say look So they're baptized in the name of Jesus. This is Acts 2:38. Repent, each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And they'll say, see, that's where you get forgiveness of sins, Romans 3:28. It doesn't say that.

It says right there, for the forgiveness of sins. That's what they say. I'm setting them up, okay? I don't know if you can I can hear me as background noise, but we'll we'll keep it on. And I see Okay, the phrase for the forgiveness of sins in Greek is ace.

Officen Hermartio. Peace. Aphesen Hermartion. And it the exact same phrase. is found in Mark 1, 4 and Luke 3, 3.

For the forgiveness of sins. Where John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Now, ask him a question. If the phrase for the forgiveness of sins means that they received forgiveness of sins by that baptism in that phraseology, then did they receive salvation or forgiveness of their sins by the baptism of John the Baptist? If they say yes, they're in trouble. If they say no, they're in trouble. If they say yes, then you're saying then that they're baptized.

by John without the Christian baptism and they're saved. Is that true? And they'll say, well, but yeah. I say, good.

Well, then here's another question. If they were saved, then did they still need to go to the temple and offer sacrifices?

Now this is a question they're not used to asking. And so there's a you can see all the problems that are there. All right, so then if they say no.

Well then the phrase for the forgiveness of sins doesn't mean you obtain forgiveness of sins. by that. You know, as my friend Charlie says, you take aspirin for a headache. Not to get one. You're baptized for the freedom of sins.

Because you are forgiven. That was going on.

Now they can I can go into utter verses. I know this topic really well. Oh button. Let me put the baptism is a ceremony. And they will routinely say, baptism's not a sign.

I'm sorry, what? Do you think it's a step of obedience, like to proclaim you know, your obedience to Christ and the baby short. Obedience is not what saves us. Faith is. Having therefore been justified by faith, not by faith and obedience, because obedience is a type of following of the law.

And the Bible routinely separates them. Go ahead. Do you think there's like different So like you were listing things, so there's like different Steps of righteousness. like to achieve righteousness. Like, you know, in Matthew it says, you know.

John said, You know, I'm not worthy to baptize you. You know, you should be baptizing me. He's like, No. I need to be baptized in order to fulfill, you know, righteousness Yep. Yeah, that was to fulfill.

In fact, let me jump off of that. What he was talking about was to fulfill the Old Testament requirements. He was entering into the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. Energy. In Numbers 4, Leviticus 8, and Exodus 29, it's where the.

The requirements are for entering into the priesthood. You had to be 30 years of age. Jesus was 30. Verbal blessing given my beloved son, whom I'm well pleased. Anoint with oil.

That's the Holy Spirit coming down on him, and he had to be sprinkled. The priest had to be sprinkled with water, not immersed. That's the law.

So Jesus had to fulfill the law.

Now this This little point, it's a subtle point. It's what I believe. I believe Jesus was drinking. Because that's what the law requires. I don't see any place that necessitates him being immersed in water.

And then, when you go into the word baptism, oh, I can show you all kinds of stuff. Yeah. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he walks up out of the water. That's true.

Now, when you go to Acts chapter 8, the Ethiopian eunuch. Right? Both the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip came up out of the water. Does that mean they were both immersed? I would think so.

I mean, if you come up out of something, you're concealed in something. No. Have you ever had your kids at the beach?

Okay. We used to live in Southern California. They're up to their knees in the water, and they're little ones. Get out of the water! You can get back out of there in the woods.

So look, it says look, in Acts 8:38, he ordered the chariot to stop, they both went down into the water. Philip, as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

So was Philip immersed in water? Submerged in water? Of course not. when they came up out of the water.

So it's a mistake that people say automatically without thinking because they've been taught this so much that in the water means you're immersed.

Well, then I guess Philip was immersed along with the Ethiopian eunuch, wasn't he? Of course not. Furthermore, check this out. David, let me show you this too. All right?

Did you know? That the Holy Spirit is poured. Doesn't know that. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So the Holy Spirit is. Just like when his disciples were waiting in Jerusalem, he said, don't leave. Yeah, I need to. Sending the Holy Spirit kind of braces that way.

Exactly. And that's the one in Acts 2:17, right? He says, and it shall be in the last days God will, he says, I will pour forth my spirit on all mankind. Verse 18. Those things, I will pour forth my spirit.

And what he's doing is he's referencing Joel 2:28-30.

Now, so the Spirit, when the Spirit comes, is a pouring of the Spirit.

Now this is what it says, Jesus says. Acts 1:5. For John baptized with water, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. If baptism means immersion, then you'll be immersed by John with water. You'll be immersed with the Holy Spirit.

But that's not how the language is, that's not how it speaks. I can go on and on and on. What I'm trying to do is show you the people who say this issue of baptism is necessary. They do not know this stuff. They have not done a complete study on baptism.

They don't know how the word is used. They don't know its different contexts, its different meanings. And they take verses out of context. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3, verse 27 through 28. I can tell you all this stuff, okay?

Yeah. So why is it why is it like set in stone that baptism is being submerged if you It doesn't trickle. It doesn't mean, hold on. It does not necessitate being submerged. I'll show you more on that.

I'll be right back, folks. We have a break. Right back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. We're having fun in the chat room. I'm accusing some people of heresy, all in fun. 'Cause they don't believe exactly what I say.

So. How is that possible? At any rate, let's get back to Jacob from Dayton, Ohio. Are you still there, buddy? Yeah, well.

Yeah, I mean I'm sorry, what so I said, just got home.

Okay, that's all right.

So, everything you said about why Jesus got baptized, I totally kind of put that together as you were saying it, and I totally see that. I do because like my grandparents, they go to like a Lutheran or Methodist, and they just approach the altar. That was like their step. like public obedience and like declaration So like I know there's, you know Faith, you know, we're saved by faith. You know, for those who have faith in my Son, so spend everlasting eternity with them.

So I was just kind of curious on your opinion on that after you said the whole Christ the Church of Christ thing. But I just got home and I wanted to get to my second person if that was okay. And you kind of remember an email on it. What is your do you believe like I'm sure you maybe do, but like false salvation.

So, like, kind of like the person was saying, Oh, when someone gets to heaven, are they going to want to leave? You know, because God's not going to fix someone, it's not in their heart. But like what if someone says they believe in Christ, they they they believe in You know the resurrection and all that and the gospel, but like nothing about them changes.

Well then, if you say you know him and don't keep his commandments, the truth is not in you and you're a liar. 1 John 2:4.

So we're made new creatures, 2 Corinthians 5:17. He causes us to be born again, 1 Peter 1:3.

So there's no change in a person because you're not a true Christian. Yeah. Because like I said, I was saved February last year, and my whole everything changed. My conviction, how I live, how I talk, how I everything, just everything about me. I completely.

It was just a curious question 'cause like, you know, like my sister, she was baptized and she went to church for a little bit and I don't know if she got church or something, but like she she wants nothing to talk about the Bible or anything. She has different ideas when it comes to like, you know, homosexuality and trans and all that. Like she don't Agree in the judgment and change and And so like I thought she was saying this like You know, we can talk because there are a lot of false converts. But look, you said something and you really got my attention here. You said you just got saved in February, right?

Last year, yeah. Last year, okay.

So, look, look, man, I'm going to just say I'm 68 and I've been doing this for 45 years. It does not mean I'm correct. It does mean I've been doing this a long time. All right, now, having said that, let me tell you something. I've studied Mormonism in depth, Jehovah's Witnesses in depth, Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, varying cults and groundings like this.

Yeah, okay.

So what they all do is have that salvation is by faith and something. This is critical. Salvation is by faith and something. They'll make it sound good. Salvation is by faith and baptism, or by and your good works, and your church attendance, and your participation in the Eucharist.

It is a trick of the devil. to try and get people to add to the finished work of Christ. Baptism is something we're supposed to do, but it's a covenant sign. It's not the thing that saves us. And I know about 1 Peter 3:21, baptism now saves you.

This is not the removal of the dirt from the flesh, but to the power of God, God consciousness. Yep.

So They will not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation. It's necessary to follow in obedience and to publicly accept the covenant's son. That's what my church teaches is. Good.

Now that's good. But just want you to know and don't get duped. By different religions, because the enemy is going to try and get you to believe in a gospel of God and man combined. God's work and God's work that you do. God's work that you do is God's work is baptism.

God's work is. He did it and he's finished on the cross. But they're going to say, God's work is your baptism, God's work is. You're going to say God's work is baptism, God's work is Eucharist, God's work is whatever. You're doing God's work, and therefore that's how you're saved by grace.

But it's a clever way of simply mixing faith and works. Because Paul said to the one who does not work but believes, and him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to righteousness, does not work but believes. It's faith alone. It's all God's work, okay? Just remember that, buddy.

Just remember it. Yeah, 'cause that's just like, you know, we're we're all you know, we're called for the Great Commission and stuff, you know, to go about to make Disciples, but like you should want to do that. Like, it's not like, oh, I have to make disciples. That's how I know I'm saying, no, you should want to share it. It's good news.

Don't you all want to hear it? It's like, Jesus did all the work and he can change your heart. And it's just like, you know, I'm just curious 'cause like just family issues and people that say they were safe in the past, but You look at their life now, now that you're saved and a Christian, it's like, wow, that does not reflect the Bible at all.

So you question their salvation. You know, it's like you say you were saved at seventeen as my father, but it's like your entire life with me did not show otherwise.

So it's like, are you really safe? No? I say to people who don't show the signs. They're living with their girlfriend, their boyfriend. They're swearing.

I say, don't call yourself a Christian. Don't do that. Don't bear a false. That was something you and I talked about. Yeah.

I was living with my girlfriend at one point. We got married we got married uh Christmas. I'm glad you got get married so you're no longer in sin. Are you being faithful to her? We knew we were.

I actually went to live with my mom for a little bit as soon as. the the church talked to me and I went and lived with my mom and we got married, so Good. I'm glad to hear it. That conviction was there, you know. I wasn't just like, oh, screw it, you know.

It was like that, it was there, like, I felt it.

So. Well, I'm glad you repented and came to Obedience of Christ, because you're supposed to do that. All right.

He he saved me in so many ways, it's unreal. But I'll call you again. I got more questions, so we'll talk tomorrow. All right.

Sounds good, brother.

Alright. Yep.

God bless. All right, welcome back to C. Yep.

You see, bro. Oh, okay. All right, that was good.

Now let's go to to Jermaine from People's Republic of California. You don't you mean? No, I'm doing okay. Uh, it was a great conversation. I was enjoying that.

Uh good.

So my question today will be considering the the circumstances going on around the world, I'm a little disheartened by some believers I've heard because they almost seem like they're dung-ho. and are ready for war and I know many of these people have never even had a fist like the Sure. Christians ever be enthusiastic about war? I'm all for training and being prepared, but. You know, even if I thought I may have to use a weapon in self-defense, I was never.

happy about it. I actually was quite disturbed. But I just want to hear is I know God is meeting lawyers, but I don't read anything about being happy and ready for a fight. Yeah, do you have anything you want to say about that? Yeah, we we are not to be excited for war or want war.

Now, my parents were alive and well during World War II, and I've had discussions with them before they passed away. And you know, I'm almost 70, and so they were, you know, older. And my dad lied about his age and joined the Navy. And he was in World War II in the Navy, Korea, in the Army, and Vietnam, in the Air Force. And so he and his buddies would sometimes get together and talk, and they would let me.

Listen, and I just shut up. I wouldn't say anything. Even as a young, immature child, I knew, don't say anything. And War was not something that they wanted. It's something that was needed.

And they had to do it. And so when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, Then the Americans wanted war because they wanted justice and they wanted to stop the uh assault. And so in that sense they wanted it. And is it right or wrong at that point? It's another discussion.

But normally speaking, we shouldn't want war. We don't want people to hurt and suffer. We don't want that. But sometimes it's necessary in order to accomplish a greater good. And then we have to weigh our wants.

In light of that as well, it's it's hard. It's hard. Yeah, and uh and I know we've talked about conflict before, but I guess that's uh It's one of those where it's good that God knows the heart of the people who are out there. And you still don't have to give it a count. It just disturbs me that people would be You know, excited, ready for war, and they have a romanticized view of things, but they've never been in a conflict.

So that's all just. Just had to set some people straight. Yeah, my folks told me that uh During the war it it was hard on the entire country. that there was rationing prices were frozen in some areas. My mom would work in a factory inside of the wings of some of the bombers and she would 'cause she was a woman, she's smaller, she could get into those places and ratchet.

And they would work long hours in factories. And they knew that um Yeah. in a a real sense, their work. and their safety depended on their work. Because the you know the the Access was uh we've come in to destroy.

And so Their attitude, it's interesting because I can't say what's in their hearts, but I remember. Talking to them about stuff respectfully. And others, you know, I used to live with a guy who was literally one of Doolettal's Rangers. Raiders, excuse me. literally with Doolittle's Raiders.

So if you know who that was. And I've talked to others who've served. I talked to a guy in Korea Korean War who was chased by MiGs while he was in a Corsair. and he's been shot and stabbed. I've talked to people who've blown out of a tank.

in Vietnam. And They have different reasons for fighting.

Sometimes they want war. in order to stop suffering. It's a weird thing.

Sometimes there are people who just want war to have to have war. I think that's the wrong reason.

So it's a varied and difficult question to answer. And we shouldn't want Destruction and harm. Because one thing to think about, a lot of Christians never bring up. Those people who were killed in war If they're not saved, Their destiny is now set. They they're in hell.

Well there happened. and as long as they're alive, them believers can be preached to. and the hope of eternal salvation, and war often stops that. And so Just a thought. You know?

Yeah. Yeah, he's a good one, and it's looks probably such a demonic push forward. Yeah, it's a good thought. That's right, I don't want it. I don't want it.

I hope we don't go to war. It's dirty. It's messy. It's bad. People suffer.

It causes division in the body of Christ. Yeah, you know war is like a ball in a china shop. It just goes through, and wherever it goes, it leaves destruction. And then it it l when the war's over, you got a big mess to clean up. I I don't want it.

But if we have to go to war Ever. then I'll support our country, as long as it's a righteous cause. No, unrighteous one. But yeah. Yep.

All right.

Well, thank you, Matt. I'll look forward to calling you tomorrow. Thank you. Hey, you're awesome, brother. God bless.

Alright. That's Jermaine. And Jermaine's always got good calls. He calls about once a day or so, and he's got good stuff. He's a good guy.

I wonder if he sits there and goes, Okay, now I gotta think of this question. Could he come up with good questions? We've got less than a minute left in the show. Just want to let everybody know, and I don't do this very often. I don't like to, but I've got to every now and then.

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