Matt Slick Live (Guest Host Luke Wayne)

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Good afternoon, everybody. This is Luke Wayne filling in this week for Matt Slick and excited to be here today. We have a very special show.

I've been looking forward to this all week. We're going to be talking with Chris Martinson for Utah's Voice for the Voiceless, a fantastic Christian ministry that does frontline outreach and gospel-centered engagement on the issue of prenatal insanticide, or what we would call abortion. So if you want to get involved in the conversation, have your questions answered, we will be taking calls later in the show, and so go ahead and get in line now. Call 877-207-2276. Again, that's 877-207-2276, and get in line now so in a few minutes we can get you guys on the air and talking to Chris and myself about this important issue.

So that said, let's not keep him waiting any longer. Let's get Chris on the air. Chris, are you with me?

Yeah, I'm with you. How are you doing? Doing good, doing good.

It is so good to have you on here. So why don't you just start off by telling everybody in your own words a little bit about what Voice for the Voiceless is, and what it is that you do. Yeah, well, Voice for the Voiceless is, like you said, a frontline ministry that we go to right in front of the abortion clinics in Utah. There's only one Planned Parenthood in Utah that does the abortions.

There is another clinic that's just a couple of miles away that do some of the abortions, but the majority are done only in one location. So we go out there most days for sometimes five days a week. We're usually doing something at least five, even six days a week, but right there in front of the mill, we stand there, we preach the gospel, we talk to anybody who's willing to listen, and we beg for the lives of these babies, but we want to come alongside these moms that are, for whatever reason that brought them there, we want to take away that excuse to kill their babies. So we help them with their, whatever, rent, whatever problems that they're having, we want to come alongside them and help them with those things, and help them get back on their feet, and it's not just do it and go on your way, we'll help you right now, but we want to be along with them for the rest of their lives, as long as they'll let us. There's, of course, no, we don't have any requirements for them to accept our help, we just, we help them, but that's the one side that is right in front of the abortion clinics, the other side is ending abortion, and we also go to our legislative side, and we need to stop this through our politicians, so we want people to run, our politicians to run bills to end abortion without any exceptions, and give equal protection to these babies.

So that's the other side that we do in the evenings, on the weekends, and anytime we can. And that's, I love that so much about you guys' ministry, is that you, it's gospel-centered, directly to the people, and you provide material care extending on through the life of the mother and the child beyond after birth, however long it's needed, and so there's that material aspect to it, and then also not wanting to leave the laws as they are, and so engaging for, engaging politicians and really trying to push for just laws, and so for you guys to accomplish all of that, there must be hundreds of people on your staff, right? Surprisingly, there is not. There is a small view, but throughout, the abolition movement is pretty small, unfortunately, but growing. It is growing as people become more aware of how the laws work, and that we actually can end abortion, and we can do it right here in Utah. We don't have to wait for Roe versus Wade. We have state sovereignty.

Roe versus Wade is not a law, so we can ignore Roe. There is more to it than just sitting around waiting for somebody to come into office that you can vote, yes, I'd like to vote to end abortion. There's there's so much more than that, and so that's what we do, but we also train. We have training classes that we offer to anybody who wants to come. I actually even will find, if there's somebody out of state that is doing it that maybe is new at it, I even try to help them so we can get more and more doing it, but really, there's a few local churches. So you guys hear this, if you are wanting to get started in this kind of ministry, engaging on sidewalks and reaching people with the gospel, saving babies' lives, and you just don't know where to begin, you can contact Voice for the Voiceless, and they will work with you to try to help you replicate this work. They're not competing with it, they want more ministries like this out there doing this, and so you guys, so Chris, how would they contact you if they, if somebody was wanting to get involved, how might they contact you, Chris? Well, we have a few ways you can contact us, but the best way would be directly to our website for voiceforthevoiceless.life, or you can search us on Facebook at Utah's Voice for the Voiceless, and message us right through there, and you can call, text, message, or email that way. But it's also important to know that it's not just us, but we actually got our start and help here in Utah through Apology at Church in Arizona. They started End Abortion Now ministry, and they gave platforms for churches to, and supplied them with materials and some knowledge to go out and do this in their state, and they are an amazing, if you don't know Apology at Church, go to EndAbortionNow.com, and you can sign up with them as well, and start, your local church can do this, and you'll find more people around as you start that are more than willing to help, and that want to help.

Yeah, so you know, let's take a step back. Now, when I first met you, Chris, there was no such organization as Voice for the Voiceless. You were just a guy with a God-given passion to save babies' lives. You were going out there on your own, doing this, hitting the sidewalk. Yeah, tell some of those early stories of what it was like getting started, you know, some of the early mistakes made, the victories, the ways that God used you, you know, kind of talk about that sidewalk ministry that kind of started all of this. Yeah, I can actually take you back even further than that, but my wife and I, we moved to Utah, and kind of in a nutshell, we ended up wanting to really get involved with the abortion ministry, and so that's how we came across EndAbortionNow, and they did equip us, but we just didn't know anything about it. Actually, I was nervous about just stepping out and talking with somebody.

What would I do? What were the arguments? How would I respond to people that were angry at me for just offering help?

And so it took a lot. I watched a lot of YouTube's of Jeff Durbin and Apologia, and how did they respond to that? I took some of their online training courses, and then Kelly and I started this. We've been, it's been a little over a year and a half now, I think it's been a little over a year and a half, and we went out to Planned Parenthood, and I had a sign with a blue sharpied words on it that all it said was, we can help. And we were, we were, didn't know what to do, we just let the Lord lead that, and we did get some of those things that I had talked about. But then at our church, at the Mission Church in South Jordan, we ran into somebody named Andrew, he was somebody there, he said, look, you've got to get to know this guy.

There's a guy named Brian, you need to introduce yourself to him and see and talk to him about it, because he's actually been out here for a while. So we ended up meeting him and found out that he had been out by himself in front of the Planned Parenthood for six years before anybody would help him. So we ended up getting to know him, started growing there with him, and a few more people ended up coming in.

Now we had Crossroads Church, now Apologios moved out here. Yeah, so we've got other churches that are coming and getting involved, and so, you know, kind of give people a picture. What's it look like while you're out there doing it? Now I can say, as somebody who's volunteered and gone out there as a part of what you do, that each person finds their own rhythm, so your way of doing it isn't going to look exactly like someone listening right now who goes and finds, you know, their way of doing it. So, but give us a picture of, for you, a snapshot of what it looks like out there, how you get people to come talk to you, how those conversations go, you know, some of the victories, some of the things to celebrate.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, like you said, it is different for, there's different approaches for sure, and we do want to bring in the truth every time. We don't want to hide any of it, so we do use graphic signs. We tell them, we use the gospel. The Lord commands you not to kill your baby, and there will be judgment for it, but that's the message, but we want to do it in a, you know, make sure it's in a loving way, and when they're approaching us, we kind of have to read the situation. They're angry, or they're scared, and we talk to them in a way that's loving. We ask them to talk with us. Sometimes we need to provoke them a little bit to stop, and then talk with them, and that's worked, and then we share the gospel with them. We tell them about our ministry, and maybe one percent of the people will actually stop and talk with us, but we have had, we don't have a chalkboard with the amount of rescues that have come out of there, but in the last year, we maybe figure about 50 babies have come and been rescued out of there. Praise God. Praise God. There is about 4,000 or more that have walked by us and gone in. So that's the... But even beyond, you know, there's the babies that have been rescued, and those, every single one of those, that's a life literally saved, and we celebrate that.

But there's so many more ways to have victory in this, and let's talk about that more right after this break. Guys, stay tuned. Chris and I will be right back with you. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show, everybody.

This is Luke Wayne filling in for Matt Slick this week. Excited about the show we have going on today. I am interviewing my good friend Chris Martinson with Voice for the Voiceless, a Christian ministry for those who haven't been listening.

It's a Christian ministry that does gospel- centered outreach, engaging people on the issue of prenatal insanthusitis, or what would commonly be called abortion. And so we've been talking with Chris, bringing him back on online now. So Chris, are you with me? I'm okay. So you have these conversations with these women, and sometimes they have the opportunity, sometimes they'll make the choice to give you a shot, to say, okay, I'm not going to go in and have this abortion.

I'm going to receive, I'll give you a chance to help me. And what happens from there? What are some of the things you guys would do? Yeah, well, what we find is really, they just, a lot of them need somebody that they can talk to, that is maybe walked in their shoes before, or somebody that they can at least talk to. So we want to hear their story, and we want to hear all those things that they're saying.

Even if we've heard it before, we want to, it's the first time that they're expressing that, usually. So we try to talk with them, find out what they need, and then we get them into a place that's neutral, maybe take them down to the coffee shop, a place away from there. We'd like to take them straight into an ultrasound, that would be first, so we can say, hey, you know, let's go over to either the Pregnancy Resource Center, or we have another place that we'll take them to and get an ultrasound, make sure they're safe, make sure the baby is safe, and then they get a chance to see that baby on the ultrasound. And once they've seen that baby on the ultrasound, that's usually when it clicks and they say, this is a life now.

And all the lies that I've been told about, it's not a life until five weeks, or ten weeks, or 21 weeks, but it, or when it's born, they know that those are all lies. So that's the most important thing, is try to get that ultrasound, but also to separate them and ask them what they need, what are their immediate needs, and we want to take that, those things that they've been struggling with, we want to give them at least a 30 minute, 30 day a month breather will pay their bills. If there was, I'll give you an example, there was somebody that went in and very angry about us even being there, and Brian, I told you about earlier, he talked to them and they said, look, you know, we, we don't want you, we don't want you talking to us about this. And so they ended up taking our information, we give them that information, they left, contacted him that night, found out that they hadn't had a, she hadn't had a warm shower in six months because her gas bill had been turned off. Well, Brian paid that for her that night, and she had a warm shower that night. And that, that was what, in her mind, was saying, look, I can't even have a hot shower because I can't pay my gas bill, how am I gonna afford this baby?

And that's what had done it. So some of them need a place to stay, they're, they're homeless, maybe they just got kicked out of their apartment, their car payment's late. We want to, we want to take that away from them, those stresses, and then go from there and work with them to get on top of their budget, teach them how to budget, and so that they can walk on their own, get them, get them the medical treatments, medical care that they need, and all of that. So that's going forward when we walk with them away from the mill. Yeah, so you guys, you, you, you guys recognize, as you're talking to these people and hearing their stories, that there is a, there's a moral dimension, there are things for which you have to call this person to repent and believe the gospel and change their mind about things, but there's also a practical dimension that most people who are going in those buildings have things wrong in their life that become their reasons, their motivators for doing this, and you take those, those, those things away, and do you, because you genuinely are acting out of care for the child, but also for the parents, right?

Yeah, that's right. I mean, that's, when we are there, we're sharing the gospel with them at the mill, and that's, that is always the first thing we talk to them about, that, and we tell them, you know, that if we weren't Christians and we didn't love them, we wouldn't be out there. We love God, we love our neighbor, and they and our, and those babies are our neighbors, and so we, we bring that to them and tell them, that's, that's what we're going to be talking about, and that's why we're there, and they need to know that. Yeah, and then I want to give, I kind of want to give an example of when I was, when I was out there with you, something that I realized really quick, and, and this is, if you don't have a Planned Parenthood facility near you that performs the actual prenatal and fantasized procedures, but they just do the initial screenings and refer people to the abortion facilities, you can still have an impact by going and standing out there, because you're getting a chance to talk with people before the very day of the abortion, when the emotions are the highest, and, and so that's what we did for a while. Chris and I, I don't, I'm sure you remember those days, where we were out in front of a Planned Parenthood facility that, that facility did not actually do the procedures, but they did people's initial appointment, and then referred them over and scheduled them for it, and so we would stand out there, and we'd use signs just to get people's attention, and to direct them to URLs and resources, but as they drove in, I'd hand out a tract, hand it out towards their car, and most people just drive by, but some people would pull over and roll their window over, let me hand that to them, and I'd be like, hey, you got time to just come over and talk for a minute, and some would, and so it's a three-step process from sign to handing, holding out something to offer to them, and then finally to them coming over and talking to you, and in that conversation, even the people who reject your help, you get the chance to share the gospel, and I got the chance to share the gospel with so many people, and the Word of God is powerful, and so even on top of everything else, and all the other important reasons, but this is just a great way to share the gospel, to meet people who need to hear the good news of Jesus Christ, and to have the opportunity where, yeah, the majority aren't gonna stop and talk to you, but just enough will that it is so worth it to be out there.

It is. We've actually gone downtown and stood out there, we've gone to conferences and just stood on the street, and shared the gospel with them, and let them know where, and what the Bible says, and where it is all over the Bible, where he says rescue those being taken away to death, hold back those tumblings of the water, Amen. This is a way that remains right to a man, but at the end is a way of death, and we, there is so many things that people have just heard from our government, our hidden nature, that they're going down. Alright, so we're coming up on another break. You guys make sure you call in, 877-207-2276.

Your questions, even your challenges, objections. We want to hear from you when we get back from this break. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show, this is Luke Wayne filling in for Matt Slick, and we've been talking with a good friend of mine, Chris Martinson, from Utah's Voice for the Voiceless, a Christian ministry that engages on the issue of prenatal infanticide, or what we would commonly call abortion, from a gospel-centered approach, doing sidewalk ministry in front of abortion facilities, providing material, emotional, and spiritual women who are in that situation, helping single mothers, and also, what we haven't talked about much and what I'd like to shift gears over to and talk about in a minute, is the political side of things. Okay, what do Christians do? How can we be involved on promoting just laws on this issue? But before we get to that, we're going to go to the phone lines where David from Kansas City has a question for us. So David, you are on the air.

All right, thank you. I have a question, it's philosophical, but it also boils down to how we actually get involved in the abortion issue. Say we have an understanding throughout history, read the whole history of the Christian Church, some people believe that only baptized infants go to heaven, some people believe that all infants go to heaven under Jesus's general dispensation of suffer, not that children come unto me, that such is the kingdom of heaven. So my question is, if the general call all innocent children go to heaven, as David said, I will be with him, you know, if it's a general call that all the infants die before the age of accountability go to heaven, then why would we care if somebody in Seattle has an abortion? Because if they all if it's go to heaven, they're probably more likely to go to heaven than being raised by a liberal feminist in Seattle, if that makes sense. Do you understand where I'm going with that? I hear what you're saying, but even if we assume, and we'll come back to that in a second, but even if we assume that all babies are guaranteed heaven, would you approve of if somebody started slaughtering two-year-olds, and say, well, we should just not care, because that'll get them to heaven, so let's just allow all the two-year-olds to be slaughtered.

Right. Right, obviously that's obviously what we, so when we recognize that murder is occurring, that there is a grave injustice, that we intervene in that, it is wrong, and we have to bring that sort of thing to a stop, and so it's trying to say, well, let's do evil so that good may come, let's murder because we think our murdering will get people into heaven, that's wickedness, and there's no place for that kind of pragmatism where we try to use sin to accomplish good in Christian thinking. But beyond that, I don't actually think that the scriptures unambiguously tell us that all children go to heaven. I think that, in fact, I think perhaps just for this very reason, what we're talking about right now, we've been left with, as you said, throughout the history of the church, this issue has been debated and questioned, simply because I think we can have enough hope in the character of God to take comfort if a child dies of natural causes and causes or in tragedy, to say, well, I trust in the justice and the compassionate character of God.

But I think we should also have enough concern for the soul of that child, and to say, well, I'm not going to roll the dice on that one, I'm going to do everything I can to protect this child and have them grow up knowing the gospel and have the chance to put their explicit faith in Jesus Christ. And I think that's the attitude that a Christian ought to have. Does that make sense, David? Yeah, and I was trying to unpack that in a logical way so that I can present that as a polemic against, you know, because those are the arguments that I've had thrown at me.

I understand, yeah, yeah. And so that's the way that I would present it, is exactly like that. First of all, laying out the fact that we don't do evil that good may come. We're commanded, biblically, not to do that. And then to follow that up by saying that it's, that we have enough spaces to take comfort in God's mercy and his compassion that we can hope in him at the loss of a child, but I don't think we're given sufficient guarantee that we can just write off all the children.

I think we need to, we're left just enough doubt as to what happens to children who die in infancy, that we need to do everything we can to preserve their lives. That's the way I would present it to someone raising that objection. Right, absolutely.

We do not need that death culture, which we love now, and I agree. Okay. All right. Well, thank you for calling in, David. I appreciate you raising that issue, because I think that is one that comes up in a lot of people's minds, so I appreciate it. And so, yeah, call back any time, and I'm gonna, because of the system I'm on, I can't have you and Chris on at the same time, so I'm gonna go ahead and get back over to Chris so that he can offer his own thoughts that he might add to your question there. All right, have a great day. All right, Chris, you are back on with us right now, and so did you have anything to add on David's question?

Yeah, I mean, what you said was absolutely right on there. Of course, we turned to the Scripture. What does God say about this? And he says not to murder your babies, but he also talks about child sacrifice and rescuing those being taken away to death, but he also, you'll see in, say, Jeremiah 19, 5, he says that it doesn't even come into his mind. He says the burnt offerings, the child sacrifice, which he didn't command or decree, it doesn't even come into his mind. He commands justice, equal protection for these babies. Isaiah 1, 15 through 17, he says, bring justice to the fatherless and please the widow's cause. It's all over the Bible so that we do not give these babies up to the child sacrifice, which is abortion, is what we call it nowadays. And you gotta remember, I mean, this is child sacrifice, it's a spiritual warfare out there, and these babies have been, they've made a covenant with the devil for giving these babies to him in the child sacrifice, and that devil doesn't, he doesn't want to give this up. There are statements that we've met out there. As a matter of fact, in at Planned Parenthood, in downtown Salt Lake, right behind, directly behind them, the house behind them, is a lady that says, that has told us that she does child, that she does séances and the worshiping the child sacrifice is that are taking place right next door to her. So the answer to that is, God said, as he says, God commands us not to. And that's where we go.

Absolutely, absolutely. So if anybody else has any questions on this subject, or on any subject, as we move through the show, you know, just call on in 877-207-2276, we want to hear from you guys, but that said, so we've talked about a lot of what goes on on the sidewalks, and there's so much more that we could say there, but that's not all of what you guys do. As you guys got going with that, you began to get involved in other parts of advocating for the unborn and ending this injustice, and that's on the legal and political side of things. So what can an everyday full-time working, you know, Christian in the pew do to change our laws? How do people get involved? Yeah, you have to get a lot of involved politically at some level, that's where it ends. So there's city councils, there's calling your legislator, there's a group that started there, a like-minded group. You can work together to change these laws, understand the process of the delegates and finding people to run for those House seats, Senate seats that'll run the bill, but start small. I mean, you can go to your city council, proclaim the gospel, tell them that we need equal protection, and you'll see more people as your boldness breeds boldness.

I mean, courage breeds courage. So you'll see more people say, yeah, that's right, I'm glad somebody's saying it. And you can join together and and get a hold of, like I said earlier, End Abortion Now, us, anybody around us, and that helps. All right, we're coming up on another break. You guys call in 877-207-2276, get in line to talk to me and Chris about this, or about any issue on which you have biblical questions.

We'll be back with you right after the break. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. This is Luke Wayne filling in for Matt Slick, and excited to be here with you, and with my special guest Chris Martinson from Voice for the Voiceless, a Christian gospel-centered ministry that engages on the issue of prenatal infanticide, or what is commonly called abortion.

And so if you want to talk to Chris or myself on this or any biblical issue, call in at 877-207-2276. We want to hear from you guys, and I'm going to go to the phones right now, where Darrell from Virginia has a question. Darrell, you are on the air. Hey, good evening. Good evening. Can you hear me?

I can hear you, I can hear you. Okay, okay. Sorry, I just got in my truck and was headed home and caught the last bit of the conversation that you were just having about whether babies go to heaven or not, and so I wanted to just add a little bit to that conversation and see what you guys think. I've taken the position, basically, that prior to Christ's death and resurrection, primarily his death, that when the Old Testament saints died, that they did not go to heaven but went to Haiti.

So I should probably stop there and see, you know, where you guys stand on that. Well, you know, most people use the term, go to heaven, as shorthand for whether somebody is saved or not, whether they will ultimately spend eternity with God or not. We could get into the complexities of the intermediate state between now and resurrection, future resurrection, hope, all of that, but when most people use the terminology, do babies go to heaven, what they really are asking is, are those babies saved? Will they spend eternity with God, with the redeemed, or because of being fallen in sin, will they spend eternity in hell? And so I think that's really what people are asking, is not the, not trying to get into the nuances of what happens immediately after death, where the intermediate state is, where people were before Christ or after Christ, or all of that, but ultimately, at the end, when all is said and done after final judgment, where are they going to spend eternity? Does that make sense?

And so with that being the focus, is kind of where we were going with our terminology there. Right, okay, well with that being the focus, that is really the central focus, and that's, you know, the point of eternal redemption, and just in Hebrews chapter 10, it starts out, you know, speaking about the sacrifices of the law, and that the comers thereunto were not made perfect, and then by the sacrifice of Christ in verse 14 of chapter 10, in Hebrews, it says that those that have been sanctified have been made perfect or complete forever, and I view that to be speaking in a context of remission of sin, which contrasts the Old Testament, where they were not made complete in regards to remission of sin through the sacrifices of the Old Testament. However, in the sacrifice of Christ, that is how one is made complete in regards to remission of sins, or in other words, eternally. The only way anyone has ever been saved is through the complete, perfect, finished work of Jesus Christ. Even in the Old Testament, the Old Testament sacrifices pointed to what God was ultimately going to provide, but no one, even under the Old Covenant, even before Christ came, no one was redeemed, nobody was ultimately saved through those sacrifices. So anyone who is saved, in any age ever, is saved because of what Christ did, and so that is absolutely correct.

And so here's, I guess, the punchline. The Old Testament saints not being, not having received remission of sins on an eternal basis when they died, we see a parallel between the Old Testament saint prior to Christ's death and the infant or the child in the womb who dies. You have two groups of people, so to speak, that have died prior to having received eternal redemption through the new birth, and that's where, you know, that conversation would open up into, you know, I know that Matt is very Reformed in his beliefs, and I know the Reformed believe that regeneration has taken place throughout the, you know, biblical history, but it's a little hard to reconcile that when we see that eternal redemption was accomplished.

So what's your question? Well, the question is, wouldn't we, when we speak about whether children that are aborted in the womb or die at a young age, or, you know, die before the, so to speak, age of accountability, a lot of, some of the thought is, well, they can't go to heaven unless they have professed faith in Christ, whereas the Old Testament saints... That's your question. Well, that is the question, is your view on the parallel between two groups that have not received the Gospels... Well, I don't think it's a perfect parallel, because I do think people in the Old Testament received the promises of what was to come, and were able to exercise faith in that. And so the question of infants is still, in the Old Covenant and the New, a distinctive question that Christians have to wrestle over. But wherever you land on it, it doesn't ultimately affect where our focus was in that conversation, and that is, what is abundantly clear in Scripture is that we are not to shed innocent blood of anyone, including children, and that would include children who have not yet been born, since the Bible definitely regards them as alive, and so regardless of where one lands on the eternity, that was the focus of that conversation. So, but thank you for your call, Darryl, appreciate having you on, and well, Chris, would you have anything to add to that conversation?

No, a hundred percent. God says that I agree with everything that you said there. Alright, so in our last few minutes, there's so much more that I wish we had time to talk about. In our last few minutes, let's get to, we were talking about, on the political side, you're reaching out to your city council, trying to convince them to establish your local city as a sanctuary city for the unborn. You're reaching out to your state representatives, you're trying to make local change, trying to do what you can, advocate on whatever level you can. What kind of laws are you writing in, calling for?

What kind of change are we looking for? Equal protection, that's the bottom line. It's important to know that the laws that they have in now are not equal protection to the preborn.

They always write in exceptions, and those bills that they're putting in now, or most of the bills that I've seen, actually all of the bills, are incremental bills. They'll do, they'll say things like, you cannot kill or have an abortion due to the baby because the baby has Down syndrome, and that sounds good, tugs down the artistry and say, great, that's a victory, but yet that same bill, you can kill that same baby just because you hate it, or you don't want the baby, or you had a bad day that doesn't establish equal protection. We want the complete, 100% no abortions allowed under any exceptions, and that's what we bring to our local government and our state government. Absolutely, and if you want to advocate on the national level too, go right ahead, but Voice for the Voiceless, the strategy they take and that many ministries are taking, is to start local and state level. Start where your representatives might pay the most attention to you, and so what are some of the, we've got maybe a minute left, but real quick, what are some of the responses you've gotten when reaching out to representatives? Do they all just ignore you?

What happens? You'll see that when you talk to legislation, they're really set on incremental laws. They feel like little by little, that's what they need to do, but we've seen that over 50 years, that hasn't worked, and abolition, you can have it stop immediately right now with the bill, so that's what we go after, and I would also recommend that go on to these Facebooks, search us out, Voice for the Voiceless, find our YouTube channels, our videos, Abolish Abortion Texas and Abortion Now.

You'll see those interactions between the politicians as well on those channels, and you'll get a lot more educated by being able to see it. Okay, absolutely, absolutely. Now let me, let's just do a lightning round. I'm gonna throw out the objections that are often put out there, and you give me your quick response. My body, my choice. It's not your body. The baby inside your body is not your body. You don't have four arms, 20 toes, it's a different body, and it's a life at the moment of conception, and that's what God says. What about a situation where the woman will die giving birth to this child? What if the life of the mother is physically at stake? What about then? Is that an exception you want?

Do you build into your body as well? Look, a doctor's job is to save lives, and they need to see that baby, establish what is going on. They're going to try to save both lives, the baby and the child. You're not going to go into Planned Parenthood because the life of the mother is at stake.

You're going to go into the hospital, and they're going to try to save both lives. That is where you need to be, not in front of a Planned Parenthood. Okay, well what about, you know, do you, are you really saying that you can force someone to use their body to support someone else's body? Isn't that really what you're forcing on women when you make them stay pregnant with this child?

Come on, isn't that wrong? It's, you're a mother. If you're pregnant of this baby, you're a mother right now, and that baby is in your womb alive and is looking for you for protection, and it's not going to end you being a mother just because you killed this baby. You're going to continue to be a mother. You're just going to be a mother of a child that you took to death.

There's a lot of anguish that you're going to have to live with the rest of your life, and we want them to enjoy that baby with the life. All right, we are out of time. This was Chris Martinson with Utah's Voice for the Voiceless. Check them out online, voiceforthevoiceless.life. Look them up on Facebook, Utah's Voice for the Voiceless, and we will be back with you tomorrow on Matt Flick Live. Another program powered by the Truth Network.