Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody.

Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. How are you doing out there? Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. We have five open lines, so really just give me a call.

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All right. So what can we talk about? Well, you know what? There's a really interesting news outlet called Reformation Charlotte.

And I assume it's out of Charlotte, North Carolina. And so Tony Evans, you guys have heard of Tony Evans, right? There's some stuff going on there. And Tony Evans is saying that we need to become socialists. That in order to have a biblical view of the government, we need to be socialistic. And maybe some of you out there have been thinking the same thing. Maybe you've been thinking that's what we need to do is be socialistic, you know, where we give to the poor, we take away from the rich.

If the people have money, we need to confiscate it through taxation and various things in order to redistribute the wealth. And I always thought that was interesting when people think that that's the case, but it's not. Let me give you some biblical stuff.

Tony Evans does not know what he's talking about. And I'd be glad to discuss it with him publicly, but he does not understand the biblical concept of government. And I'm going to go over a little bit of it right now. And it might be interesting because tonight is the night of the debate.

You know, it's the 29th of September, 2020 for the podcasters. So Biden and Trump are going to debate. I am definitely going to watch it. Normally I wouldn't watch a debate too much.

You might glance in it here or there. Oh, but I'm going to watch this one. Oh yeah. And we'll just see how it goes. I don't know who you're going to vote for, but, um, I know who I'm not going to vote for.

Any rate. So, uh, did you know that the Bible teaches a representative form of government? It says on excess 18, 21 through 20, furthermore, you shall select out of all the people, able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain. Now that would knock away.

That would get rid of a whole bunch of politicians right there. You know, he's supposed to hate dishonest gain. And, uh, you know, because I believe a lot of them, um, you know, they're hypocrites. I believe a lot of them, uh, take, uh, let's just take money in the side and, and things like that in order to, to line the pocket books.

I do. I'm a cynic when it comes to stuff like that. Anyway, I should let them judge, uh, the people at all times. So they're supposed to be elected, but we've chosen and selected a different people for, to represent the other people, uh, when they go before, uh, the magistrates, when they go before the, the issues.

And that's what it says. Uh, it says in Deuteronomy 113, choose wise and discerning and experienced men from your tribes. And I will appoint them as your heads.

Check this out. Also, this is self-governance. Uh, Matthew 18, 15 through 17, if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private. If he listens to you, you've won your brother. But if he goes, excuse me, if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, go tell the church. If he refuses to listen to the church, let him be to use a Gentile and tax gather. So what's happening here is that inside, uh, the, the, the church idea, someone says, you go to that person, you take care of it yourself. See, this is the idea of church governance.

It's a principle. You take care of your problems and your issues. You don't want to rely on the government to, uh, to bail you out on everything. Now, certainly, you know, government's going to have to help in roads and, and infrastructure and things like that.

That's what it's for. But, um, the idea here, self-governance, I stopped out of Matthew 18. Did you know also that we're allowed to have private property rights?

Check this out. Exodus 2017, you shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to the Lord. Uh, that's what it says. Um, belongs to your neighbor.

Excuse me. So in Exodus 2017, it, it presupposes the idea of private property rights. And it says in Acts 5, 4, while it remained unsold, they did not remain your own.

And after it was sold, was it not under your control? So you see the idea of private property rights is right there in the Bible. The principle of liberty and freedom. It says there is liberty when you're in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3, 17 and Galatians 5, 1 says, do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. What is slavery? Slavery is when anything has power over you and controls you. And you don't have the freedom to act the way you want to act. Now, we don't want to have the freedom to go rob people.

We don't want that. But the idea here is that we don't want to be enslaved to someone else. You can be enslaved to someone else by debt or by drugs, or if the government is the, the implement of oppression, then we have to rise up against it. That's the basic idea in, in fascism and dictatorships and oligarchies in communist systems and a lot of socialist systems around the world. You are not allowed to rise up against the status quo. They take care of you.

In other words, they get rid of you. Capitalist principles. This is the parable of Matthew 25, 14, where the master gives to the servants different amounts of money and requires for them to produce out of what has been given to them. For the furthering, ultimately the kingdom of God, Matthew 21, 33 through 41 is the parable of the landowner leaving servants in charge of his vineyard.

He owned the vineyard and required proper treatment of his people and his property as well. Also witnesses in a fair trial, Deuteronomy 19, 15, it says on the evidence of two or three witnesses, a matter shall be confirmed. Also, you have the right of self defense and Luke 22, 36, Jesus says, buy a sword.

He says, sell a cloak and buy a sword. Now these are just some of the many principles that are in the Bible. And a lot of people don't know this, but the Puritans, the pilgrims, when they came over to this country, when they established government, they actually got their ministers to go through the word of God and define out of the revealed word of God, those principles that were beneficial for the purpose of having an equitable government for the people.

And so they sent the ministers to look into the word of God and they did that. And in so doing, they developed a lot of the principles that were then later interwoven into the constitution of the United States. Now I would recommend that if you have not done this, I would recommend that what you do is actually read the constitution of the United States and also read the preamble.

I would definitely recommend that you do that because I think that it would be very beneficial for you to do. It would be. Now the constitution is a very interesting document and a lot of people say, well, there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. James Madison, the fourth president said, the civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established. It's in that context that the separation of church and state is to be the idea that there's no national religion to be established.

And this is what Thomas Jefferson said. I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the constitution from intermiddling with religious institutions, their doctrine, discipline, or exercises. But this is exactly what is happening. The government does get in and it interferes.

And we have a lot of that happening. We're supposed to have freedom, be able to be free from oppression, and we are supposed to be able to have the freedom to be able to act according to the conscience of our will before God. And when we have separation of church and state, what often happens is people, what they do is they say that it means that the church cannot influence the government. That's not the intent of the original constitution, the original writers. It was that the state would not influence religion. That's what it is.

But the secularists, as always, twist the issues of truth. Let's get to Rachel from North Carolina. Rachel, welcome.

You're on the air. Thank you so much. Thank you for that biblical reference and history that you just gave.

Appreciate that. I was wondering if you could direct me to find the information that Tony Evans was supporting socialism? Yeah, go to reformationcharlotte.org, okay? And you can see the information that they gathered there.

And you can check it out there, okay? Thank you. Also, just a request, a statement that your listeners, viewers, whatever, that we all pray for the people who uphold that BLM movement, we need to really, really, I mean, it's just so dark and sad. And they are, they are making a statement. If they were to be prayed for and come to the light, then it would just be wonderful.

So that's what I want to say. Thank you for the reference to the, you said reformationcharlotte, correct? Yes, reformationcharlotte.org or Charlotte, yeah, reformationcharlotte.

Let me check it out again. Let's see, yeah, reformationcharlotte.org. I don't agree with everything they say. They're a cessationist there.

But, you know, that's okay. And they do a lot of research and a lot of information there. So I'd like to check out the quotes that they have and the comments that they have, and I recommend you check them out. And the comments that they have, and I recommend them, at least to get another view from a biblical perspective on a lot of issues. And so just because people are popular doesn't mean they're good. Go ahead.

No, I would like to view that because my impression would be that Tony Evans would be the last to uphold socialism. So that's a good reference. And God bless you, your family, your efforts, and all. I really appreciate your program and your stance. God bless you.

Well, God bless you too. Thank you. All right. Thank you. You're welcome.

You're welcome. Okay. Hey, folks, why don't we get to the next caller right after I get the number out, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Dustin from Pennsylvania.

Dustin, you're on the air. Hey, Matt, the Calvinist from yesterday. I just don't want to go into some extreme belief here in Calvinism. I'm just going to spit this out and then tell me what you think. Okay. We're going to have to break. How about that?

Because we've got a break coming up. Yeah, let's do that because this is going to be a hefty one. Yeah. Okay, good.

I like it. All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please give me a call.

We have three open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, we have three open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Dustin from Pennsylvania. Dustin, welcome.

You're on the air. All right. So it's Matthew 721 through 23. I know that you probably already know it by heart like I do, so let's just get to the point here. It almost insinuates that if, I mean, it doesn't just insinuate it. It basically says that if you are, if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you also believe you're doing something to keep it, which is works, and that doesn't save. So it's either faith alone or nothing at all, which means that if you believe you work for your salvation in any way, even in ignorance, you cannot enter because your righteousness is your own and not Jesus's. That's what I've come to. So what do you think? Well, I ultimately agree with you, but I don't think the pericope you're citing supports that necessarily, but it certainly can be used to support it.

I don't think it necessitates it, but let's take a look. Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my father, who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, now that day is the day of judgment, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles.

Then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. So what is going on here is that Jesus is uttering a statement of prophecy that there's going to be people on the day of judgment who are going to appeal to their salvation based upon their faith, Lord, Lord, and what they've done. Do we not prophesy in your name? And that could mean to teach, to preach, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles.

So what they're doing is they are appealing to their position with God based on their faith and their goodness and their works. And Jesus says, you were never saved to begin with. I never knew you. Now, the reason that he says I never knew you, a lot of people don't know this, but if God says to you, I don't know you, that's bad. In John 10, 27 to 28, Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice, and I know them. And that's what he says, I know them. In Galatians 4 16, when you do not know God, you serve by nature those which are not gods, but now that you have come to know God, or rather are known by God, that you come to serve the true and living God. So what we have here is this issue. It's a phrase that is used by God.

I never knew you. And it means that you're not, they're not saved and never were saved. So these people think they're saved, think they're in the faith, but they're not.

They're not regenerate, they're not known by God, because they appeal, they have faith and works. And so they're, they're damned. And the context is on the day of judgment. Now, what you were saying is that, well, those people who would say that they have to keep their salvation by being good.

I would say that this could be used in support of that, not a necessity of that, but it's definitely in support. Because if you can lose your salvation, here's the thing we've got to ask. What do you do to keep it? And when I have debate with people who teach you can lose your salvation, I always ask them to give me a list of three things that you've got to do to keep your salvation.

Just three things. And if they say they don't know, well, then how would they know if they're saved or not? If they don't have a list of things they've got to do to keep themselves right with God, then how do they know they're right with God or not?

Because they've got the things they've got to do. And I've had people tell me that you can't watch movies that are R-rated. You can't listen to heavy metal music.

You can't have alcohol. I've had different things told me. And that if you do those things, you lose your salvation. So then my response, of course, is so you keep your salvation before God, by your goodness, by what you do, in your compliance with the things that are right and wrong, correct?

And they go, yes. Well, they're obviously false converts at that point. They don't understand the true gospel under law. So this whole kind of thing is tied up together.

Okay? I wouldn't, I mean, not even with that, I would just say, you know, chastening for the born again, for sure, Hebrews 12. But for anybody that is still on Satan's payroll, I guess they could just do whatever they want. But the last thing I just want to mention is Nahum, chapter one, verse seven, says that the Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble, and he knows them that trust in him. So if you trust him, then you, then I guess you don't have to work for it.

That's right. You trust in Christ because Christ fulfilled the law. Christ did all the works necessary. And because, and I'll put this together for people, because he represented his people on the cross. That's, you know, Romans 6, 6, we died with Christ. Romans 6, 8, we were crucified with Christ because of what Jesus did on the cross. And because we're counted with him and it can only be the ones he represented. Otherwise it would make no sense. So that he did that.

Absolutely. And therefore, because we were in him, when he was baptized, we were baptized. When he died, we died.

When he rose, we rose because we are in him, which is why when you go to Romans chapter 8, 29 and 30, for those who before knew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren and these whom he predestined. Now that's past tense. He also called, that's past tense. And those who be called, past tense. He also justified past tense. Those who be justified, he also glorified.

That's past tense. Glorification is future. We have not yet received our glorified resurrected bodies, which is prophesied in 1 Corinthians 15, 35 and 45.

And so, yet glorification here spoken of in the past tense. And the reason is because as he was raised, we are raised. We are so secure in Christ, in his representation, in his perfect work, that when it says he died, we died. When it says he rose, we rose. When it says he was the firstfruits and glorified, we are also glorified with him.

It's just a matter of time before the totality of it is manifested. This is in the mind and the heart of God because as Jesus said in John 6, 37, he says all that the Father had given him will come to me. They don't come to him because they have their own free will choice and they're going to do all this stuff and then God gives them to the Son. That's the opposite. It's a false teaching. It's a heretical teaching. That's what's taught in a lot of churches. So, when we see this put together this way, it makes perfect sense, which is why we can't do anything to keep our salvation, to get our salvation, to maintain our salvation or regain our salvation because Christ did it all. And if anybody believes you can maintain it by your goodness, you're a false convert.

You need to repent and believe in the true gospel. Okay? Amen. Yeah, I guess what you're saying is works are a byproduct, not a prerequisite, which makes sense with Abraham.

For justification. Yeah. Kind of collecting everything together as a new Calvinist, but I appreciate you talking to me, man. All right? All right, buddy. God bless, man. Okay.

All right. Let's get to Vicky from Raleigh, North Carolina. Vicky, welcome. You're on the air.

So, whoa, you're breaking up a little. Can you try it again? Can you hear me okay? I have a curiosity question. I was listening to a sermon on the treatment network the other day, and I was wondering why they spoke about when Jesus went into Simon Peter's home and healed the mother-in-law.

And then he went about and they did a much other healing, I think like the same day or something, and they talked about how the demons, that they cast out demons, and the demons that, you know, recognized Jesus, and that, you know, recognized him as a son of God and stuff, but he rebuked them and commanded them not to speak. And I was wondering why that was. Well, how about I give it a shot, try and answer the question after the break. Okay? Okay. Hold on. That'll be fine.

All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

Let's get to Vicki. Are you still there? Oops. Yep. I'm still here. Okay. Oh, it was the right one. Okay. You got me. Yeah.

Okay. So why did Jesus tell the demons not to say anything? And even the people. They knew him. Yeah. And he didn't want them to be speaking because they knew him.

Right. They knew who he was. They knew he was the Messiah, the King, the Son of God. And he would not want, most probably the answer is he didn't want them to speak just as he told others. When he got healed, go tell no one.

Why? Most probably it's because he says his time had not yet come. Jesus says, you know, you go to John 7 and he talks about this. He's healing people.

He's doing stuff, casting demons. You know, that whole bit that Jesus does. He says, you know, no, my time has not yet come. Well, what does that mean? In Matthew 26, go into the city of a certain man and say to him, teacher, my time is near.

I'm to keep the Passover at your house with the disciples. But he's talking about his own death. Jesus came to die and that was his time.

That's what he was there for. And so most probably if he had let people say who he was, it would have messed up the time line that had to be in place. This gets into paradoxes. You know, can you go back in time and kill your grandfather so that you're not born? Well, how can you do that if you can't go back and do that? And so the issue here is most probably had something to do with it's not his time and the necessity to keep the things silent had to be in place in order for the rest of things to occur.

And that's probably what's going on. Okay. Okay. That's funny because they were like, you know, because they were actively and obviously out there healing and that like they healed many, you know, and cast out demons and many demons.

I thought, well, that'd be kind of obvious. Right. Well, remember what the Pharisees kill him for, proclaiming to be God. Right. That was the legal reason.

So if they were to say you're the son of God, that term meant that he was equal with God, John 5 18 says. So you see, keep it quiet. Not yet. Okay. Gotcha. I was just curious about it.

I thought, well, I wonder why he didn't want them to say that. That's very interesting. All right. Okay. Well, thank you. You're welcome.

Appreciate you. Okay. Goodbye.

All right. Let's get to, sorry about that. Let's get to Derek from Tennessee. Derek, you're on the air. Hey, how's it going, Matt? Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Okay. Great. Hey, what's going on? I'm a fan of your ministry.

Appreciate what you're doing. My question was about Eastern orthodoxy. Yeah. So I was in the chat room. I was in the, in the, uh, discord debate a couple of nights ago. Tell me what you thought of that.

Oh yeah. What'd you think? Yeah, it was an animal house.

Um, it was an absolute animal house. It was absolutely embarrassing for getting muted for, for them, for the, for, for the hosts, the moderators. And yeah, because a lot of people don't know, let's fill, let's fill in the audience a little bit. This court is a chat system. And I was asked on Sunday night to participate in an impromptu debate with a church, an Eastern Orthodox guy.

So he went in and I'll give my version and you say if I'm right or not. Uh, it, they were out of control. They were rude. Uh, I was muted several times. I was kicked out of the room by somebody.

Um, people would jump in and insult, uh, call me all kinds of names. Uh, the guy I was debating spent well over an hour, uh, just trying to tell me why I couldn't interpret scripture. Why didn't have a right to go look at the word of God. It took me over an hour, hour and 15 minutes to get him to even look at the word of God.

And then when we did, he wouldn't even really look at it. And they kept, uh, calling me names, not only in the, in verbal, but also in the written form. Am I right or am I wrong? Totally right.

Everything you said is totally right. It was bad. You know, I'm going to say that, uh, I have a, I have a list now of who's treated me the worst, uh, Satanists and underneath them is Universalists and underneath them is now the Eastern Orthodox people. Yeah, that's bad. That's bad for the one true church.

That's bad. The one true church. That's right. But you know, there's the one true church. That's right. They have the right to interpret scripture while they're cussing you out and telling you why you're going to hell. Because you trusted Christ. Oh man.

Yeah, you're right. And you didn't trust the church. So, so with that being said, with that being said, how do we avoid talking past each other? Like how can we even begin to appeal to the word of God as, as authority and try to get these people to go to scripture?

And the reason I'm asking is because there's an influx of interest in Eastern Orthodoxy with Francis Chan, Hank Hanegraaff and all this stuff, you know, and there's these young people, these woke people making it seem like an awesome thing to leave Protestantism and to convert to Orthodoxy. How do we engage these people if when we try to, they say, you don't have a Bible because you deny the church fathers or whatever you did not. And you can't even read your Bible, but it's, yeah. They're saying you can't read the Bible, but I got it on my hand. I can read it.

God so loved the world. It gave us, I can't read it. What are you talking about? You know? Well, you can't interpret it. The most, the most telling part, you'll remember this, I think the most telling part is when you quoted the scripture that said, Jesus wept. Do I need a bishop to interpret that? And he said, yep.

It was incredible. John 11 35. Yeah. And he says, I need and had the bishops, the authority of the church and all this stuff to, to interpret it properly. And I said, well, I interpreted it to mean that Jesus cried. He was weeping. Am I correct?

And it took him what three minutes before he said yes. Right. I didn't need it.

I'm just like, how do we even start with this? Oh, they, I don't believe they're saved. Uh, I don't believe that they're regenerate. I don't see, I don't know about you, but I didn't see any fruit of the spirit there.

No patients. Uh, I think the, I think it was an atheist guy who was in charge. He was more apologetic about what would, what happened than the Eastern Orthodox people were. And, uh, they show no signs of, of, um, regeneration. They show no, they showed no signs of the fruit of the spirit. And I'm not judging them. I'm just saying this is, this is what it was.

You can tell me if you agree or disagree. Uh, they were ravenous dogs. Uh, they were, they were horrible.

And, uh, of course, um, I dismantled that guy. I mean, he, he, he couldn't argue his way. He did not know what he was doing. It was pretty bad.

He was horrible. So what do we do? Just do this appeal to the word of God. Anyway, if they say, Oh, you can't go to the word of God. Say, yes, I can.

I'm going to read it right now. Jesus went to the scriptures. The apostles went to the scriptures and write this one too. You'll notice there's two things I said to him that he could not answer. He could not. He just ignored it.

And I brought it up more than once. And that was Acts 17, 11, where it says Paul and Silas, um, you know, were preaching and teaching and the Bereans checked what Paul and Silas said against scripture. And he called them noble minded. And on Romans 14, five, um, Paul said that, uh, each man should be fully convinced in his own mind regarding days of worship and, and, um, and eating habits. And I said, well, why would Paul say these things that, uh, these individuals can go look at the word of God for their own? If, uh, if we're supposed to submit to your church and he could not answer that.

So I'd recommend that you go that way and say, please answer the question. Why can't what, what can I do with the Bible says be convinced in my own mind? Why can't I? Because that's what it says to do.

It's a command. So you see, that's when I would love to, and I want to debate the guy again, if anybody there's listening, I want to debate the guy again and have him demonstrate how the Eastern Orthodox church is one true church. And notice when I asked him to do that, he couldn't do it.

You know, the guy was, uh, basically, uh, behaving like a fool a lot of the time. And he was, and I remember the flabbergasted response, like, you know, just kind of really letting this all sink in when you said, wait, wait, wait, the church fathers are inspired. And he said, yes. And he said, the councils are inspired. Yes.

Infallible in Aaron by unanimous decision, even though not all the church fathers agreed with each other. Yeah. What do you do? What do you do with a group like that? It's a cult. It's a gigantic cult. What they do is they replace Jesus with the church. That their church is the way to salvation. Their church is the truth. Life is found in their church. He, you know, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and nobody come to the father book by him. And nobody comes to the truth except the Eastern Orthodox church. They've replaced Jesus with their own church.

They are idolaters. Yeah. The Bible is a theological artifact before it is a historical artifact. The church was born from the Bible, not, and you tell me if I'm correct, the church was born from the scriptures and not the other way around. Yeah.

I would, I like that. And I would also add by the Holy Spirit also, but, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And, uh, it's a good reminder to say that the church came out of the word of God, not the, uh, the word of God out of the church, which is what they like to say. So, um, put that arrow in my quiver as well, but yeah, it was a debacle and they made themselves look horrible. Uh, and their, their arrogance was unbounded.

It was just incredible. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Amen. Well, I appreciate your taking the question. All right, man. I'm glad you called in about it.

God bless buddy. Yeah. See you around. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh man. Oh, I'll get to Jamal. Well, we had a break coming up. Please hold on folks. Be right back after these break. It's Matt slick live, taking your calls at 8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6. Here's Matt slick. slick all right everyone welcome back to the show I'm smiling peak sort of laughing I went into discord during the break and people are apologizing all over the place for how I was treated oh man let's get to Jamal from North Carolina hey Jamal welcome here on the air I am by God's grace very well what did I ask about engraving images and about female pastors okay both are bad next like cross symbols being born on necklaces having crosses in the home on church well a graven image in the context of X of excess 20 you're not to bow down before them that's what it's talking about have these in the context when people had images images of their gods they would take care of them they'd keep them with them they represented their gods and they were used in worship and that's what a graven image was and when a Christian has a cross on like I have a couple necklaces but one's a nice wooden cross now I'll wear that it's not a graven image it's a representation of my faith and I don't bow down before it or anything like that and so you can have a you know a cross and things now the Catholics which you know my opinion of Catholicism they like to have Jesus on the cross well I don't like that this is just my opinion only my opinion I don't like it because for one thing Jesus is not on the cross and two I don't want any image of Jesus in any way shape or form that I would look at that's just me I don't want that in my mind I just because I don't want the blonde hair blue white Caucasian surfer image in my mind either you know so that that's just me and but the idea is that we don't use it for worship and stuff like that so we just stay far away all right and about the female pastors could you expand on that yes the Bible clearly says at first Timothy 2 12 and 13 I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain silent for Adam was first created so what Paul does is he ties the issue of authority in with the created order so he clearly does that and that's what he says right there and the word keeps silent in the Greek is a sukiya and it means to be quiet but not silent to keep it down to be rushed and we go to Titus 1 5 for this reason I left you and create that you should set an order what remains and a point elders elders in every city as I directed you namely if a man is above any reproach the husband of one wife what that says is on their mias gunaikas a man of one woman a husband of one wife that's what the elders supposed to be and so can a woman be a husband of one wife no can a woman exercise properly exercise authority for men in the church in the church context no and I forgot to mention that interest Timothy 2 12 and 13 Paul said I do not allow this in the very next chapter he says he's giving instruction on how to behold behave in the household of God first Timothy 3 15 so having said that let me just say to people out there who are listening if you attended church with a woman pastor a woman elder you should leave you should not support it because the Bible condemns it flat out if you think I'm wrong turn the channel take to your Bible mark out the sections of scripture that disagree with what you feel what you think what you want and you know just step further in the heresy that's all you got to do this is what the word of God says and I'd be glad to debate anybody on it let's let's set up a debate public debate televised debate whatever you want ready to debate let's set it up let's go to the word of God and see what it says because that's what it says and there's a reason because God set up the the order as male female children and in the church statistically speaking when women become pastors and elders generally 80% of the churches become apostate they started proving of homosexuality within two generations and so the reason we need is that men are the ones who are supposed to do that and step up and do their job and many to do this and it's not the place for one to do that period and that's all right you don't like it hey don't listen to me I'm just telling what the word of God says okay so that was everybody real quick real quick follow-up question I know we got about 10 minutes left what about administrative passes you know kind of like doing like on on the start they can do everything in the church except for being pastor and being elder and they're not even supposed to be a deacon because a deacon supposed to be in their music when I got some man of one woman that's what it says so they can do anything they can work in offices they can help clean just like men can help clean they can cook just like men can cook just though that the authoritative office of being over men in the church is not to be held by women and just so you guys know a lot of people get the wrong impression about me when I talk about this you think that I'm you know bigoted or chauvinistic or whatever and it's not the case when I was in seminary we had a week-long period where the all the classes were open up to the public and one of the things they did during this week was fly in a woman to come into the seminary and teach on what women can do in the church and I loved that whole idea and I went and I attended that class myself and it was packed full of women and I was the only male in the entire class which I thought was a tragedy fortunate is it very unfortunate so nevertheless I have a high opinion of women and women are the female is a gender that bore the Messiah the female is the one who needs to be regarded I like the idea of opening doors for the ladies I like the idea of standing up when a woman enters the room of guarding and protecting women I like that idea I think it's good it's not because they're weak and inferior hey we're just physically stronger and we need to use our strength in the area of service and not in domination and so this whole idea of service in the church is supposed to be man-led not woman-led because we're supposed to emulate Jesus Christ the man who with his great authority and his masculinity served loved forgave taught and died for his bride and this is what we're supposed to be doing in the church and just as Jesus went in and cleansed the temple and got rid of the heretics so to the Christian men are supposed to be doing that which is surprising because it just shows you the weakness of Christian men in the church because they allow women pastors and elders and it's just a it's a it's a shame to any men in the church who would sit under women pastors and elders and allow it to happen it's a shame to them they should be just it's a disgrace to them for that they should stand up lovingly patiently and say no it's not your position here's what the Word of God says and if their wives don't like it their girlfriends don't like it so what who cares you answer to Jesus not a bunch of women not your brothers not your mom and your dad you answer to Jesus stand up for Jesus Christ do it lovingly patiently do it biblically okay thank you there's my you push my button a little bit I had to say that okay buddy hey you know all right man god bless all right let's get to Roger from North Carolina Roger welcome you on the air Matt how you doing I'm doing all right I'm hanging in there what do you got buddy I'm honored to talk to you I've been listening for a long time this is the first time I've called thank you for a couple of weeks I have been reading and studying and watching videos trying to decide where I was going to land my plane on eschatology struggling with it quite a bit I wanted your take on it what I mean specifically is I'm struggling with the issue of free tribulation on Millennials I don't find pre-tribulation rapture in the Bible anyplace I hope it's true I'm not knocking anybody who doesn't agree with me if they believe a tree trib that's great I don't see it in Scripture the verses that say such things as two men in the field of one is taken one is left Matthew 24 Luke 17 that is not the rapture that's the wicked who are taken just read the context I know of no verse that says we're gonna get out of anything if anything Jesus says watch and flee to the hills and things like that so there you go as far as the millennium goes you said all mill right yes I hold to all millennialism and with it which means that the millennial reign of Christ is right now and people say well man is just ridiculous look how bad the world is and then I say but you're not reading the scriptures because Jesus said in Matthew 12 22 32 that Satan was bound now he's supposed to be bound during a millennium he said he was bound that he's be to let be let loose toward the end of the millennial reign well people say well the word millennium means thousand well yeah but it also means kabillion the same way we use that phrase because in Revelation 20 it says that the angel came out of heaven and has the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand the key the abyss and a great chain in his hand are figurative and laid hold of the dragon figurative which is the devil literal abandoned for a thousand years so it's a thousand literal or figurative so there's it's in a figurative context plus if you were to do a study on the last trumpet and the resurrection and the final judgment you'll see that it lines up in a certain way and what you have to do is go to the Bible and look up I don't want to mess people up here but look up this age in the age to come in the Bible you'll find there's only two ages in this age we have trials tribulations in the second eternal life the full manifestation of it okay what happens at the end of this age at the end of this age the new heavens and new earth are made the resurrection and the judgment occur and you'll also find out that if you were to look as it says two men in the field one is taken one is left the one who's taken as the wicked and they ask him where they taken and Jesus says where the body is the vultures gather that's Luke 17 when you go to Matthew 13 you'll find the parable where the wheat and the tares and Jesus explains the wheat and the tares but he says as the terrible goes with the the the Reapers say shall we tear up the the tears and he says no lest you tear up the wheat as well don't do that allow both to go together till the end of the age and I will say to the Reapers first gather the tears the first ones gathered according to Christ at the end of the age are the wicked and he says gather them to be burned and it says in Matthew 17 two men in the field one is taken one is left that whole thing where they taken Jesus answers where the body is a vultures gather so my eschatology is just simply right out of the scriptures and when I show people the verses that they use I say let's look at it in context almost every single time they go oh my goodness I never saw this before I know just read the context so that's why I believe what I believe that's only a short version of why I believe I can teach an hour-long study on this and I have before and it's never been refuted so far that's kind of arrogant sounding but no one's refuted it yet okay well I appreciate that I for the most part I've been a a pre-trip guy but I was reading some stuff with Matthew and what you just told me I'm gonna read again tonight I was mostly reading in 24 last night good I started leaning toward a millennial thing when I when I got done reading Matthew again okay let me just say because we're almost out of time let me just say that there are strengths and weaknesses to both sides and you know whatever side you decide you have to decide because that's what you see the scriptures saying and then don't judge anybody badly who doesn't agree with you that's all okay hey buddy we gotta go thank you all right 10 for haste clay for North Carolina sorry about that call up tomorrow we talk about the LDS Church or your questions about the LDS may the Lord bless you and by his grace we're back on here tomorrow we'll talk to you then we'll see you let's buy everybody