Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking a call and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome to the show. Hey, it's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want, as usual, to give me a call, it is so easy to do. Just dial 877-207-2276 and we can talk.

TC.

Alright, if you want to send me an email, that's easy to do as well. Info at carm.org. Just send an email to info at carm.org and put the subject line, radio comment. Or radio question and one of those. Real easy, easy, easy.

I'm working on articles now. I was developing a single article, and it's one of those kind that just expanded and expanded, and I said, Okay, I'm going to break it up.

So I'll be working on a bunch of new articles. Dealing the cross-pollinating articles between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox, answering their challenges or their comments or their claims. You know, we're the true church. And I was before the show here, I was listening to StreamYard. I went into a place and I literally heard these guys say, No, join this church, no, join that church, join the Catholic Church, join the whatever it was, this non-denominational, join the Presbyterian Church, join the Anglican Church.

They're all saying, and I jumped in and I said, Guys, you got it all wrong. No, become Christians. That's the priority. And then you find a church that matches biblical theology, biblical teaching. That's the, you know.

What is with people and their desire to join a particular church as though that particular church is the right church? What is wrong with people? It's the same kind of thing, I guess, with sports. You know, my sports team is better than your sports team, my church is better than your church. I don't understand this.

Okay. And I do think, however, a lot of pastors inadvertently contribute to this kind of. Ecclesiology, that is, the worship and serving of your particular church. And I've been to so many different churches where they talk about how their particular denomination really understands things. I think it's a problem.

I think you should say things like, well, in our denomination, we hold these positions. There are good Christians outside of our denominations who hold different opinions. They're brothers and sisters in Christ, etc. That's how it should be done. And that's my opinion.

I I I I just I just I just get irked by so many people who Push of a church. Push a church all the time. Why? No, push Jesus first, then talk about what churches match biblical theology. Yeah.

Mm. Let's get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You're on the air. Hey Matt, how's it going?

Oh, it's going. Just hanging in there, you know. More hanging than in there, I like to say.

So what do you got, buddy? Ha ha. Uh so what is and isn't adultery? Adultery is when you are married to a spouse. Of the opposite sex, and then you have sexual relations with someone other than your wife or your husband, your spouse.

That's adultery.

Okay. Is there anything else to it or it's or that's like the the thing? That's what adultery is.

Now, people might say, well, there's different kinds.

Well, we could then say. I can be careful how I say certain things, P-O-R-N, as that kind of a thing. Does that constitute it? It is to a degree, yes, it does. And this is when the elders of the church need to be involved.

Uh so uh There's variations. And because of the nature of the topic, I don't want to get into it too detailed over the radio, if you know what I mean. But, you know. No, I I I understand. Um The adultery of the heart, is that the same same exact definition of adultery, but with um Another person's wife in your head?

Is that basically it? Like, is there nothing else that. Yeah, that that's a another form of adultery. Yes. And it needs to be repented of.

It's a lesser form, but even Jesus says: you know, if you look on a woman with lust, then you commit adultery in your heart with her. And. There are degrees of sin, and so. people might have struggles with their thoughts. and never carry them out.

So there's an issue of sanctification that needs to be Addressed there. And if someone Is you know, a couple is married and the one of the members of that marriage is in the mind doing adulterous things. And this is found out. this uh this would del disqualify a person from Preaching and teaching. It would then need that the church needs to be involved if it was just laity.

and uh you know with loving loving care and and restoration uh worked So the person um It doesn't do this anymore.

Okay. Uh Oh, okay. Can a non-married person commit adultery? No, because adultery by definition there is marriage.

So fornication, that's what that would be. Relations outside of marriage covenant, but adultery is marriage relations in the covenant without a the one the person you're married to.

Okay, but you can still sin by lusting after another because you're coveting them, right? Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

Sometimes people will say, Well, I didn't physically do it, but in their mind they're doing it over and over. This is a sin, it needs to be stopped.

So God calls us to be obedient in our minds as well as our hearts. And it's, you know, I've talked to a lot of people about this over the years. Try to correct them. I don't say Don't think these things, don't do these things, etc. Got a better attitude and and stuff and Sometimes it's tough, you know.

Sometimes there's just memories and experiences that pop up and you push them away, and sometimes um. you know, uh they don't get pushed away sufficiently. Then you've got to repent of the L to the Lord, confess it.

sometimes need to go to your spouse and talk about it? And of struggle. And I've had many conversations like this over the years with people. Many. and I have specific advice.

Uh very specific, but it gets detailed.

So Can't go for that original. Oh. Yeah, no, I I I I I get it. Um Is Is coveting merely having desires or is it or is there a different definition for coveting?

Well, coveting is desiring that which does not belong to you. but in a sinful way.

So, you know, I see occasionally a car that I like, and I go, man, I wish I had that car. And uh I'm not I am not in a uh in or I don't have possess an inordinate desire. where it becomes something that controls me. and it's where I lust after it, where I desire it so much that I can't think about it. And someone else has what I don't have and I start going into it, just dwelling on it.

And it's just an it was called an inordinate desire. And that is to be uh uh um repented of.

Sometimes in my friends, uh In fact, my friend Charlie Sponges when it said I first heard use this, and then I They stole it from him. You know, we're walking around. I see a book he likes that he can't afford or whatever. He goes, I covet that book. And.

And I gotta chuck a lot of it because you just you know like I'll say to people man Okay, I covet that, whatever it is, you know, and they chuckle. But real coveting is a sinful, inordinate desire of something that belongs to someone else. And that's what you gotta be careful of. Does it have to be a persistent desire? Or is it one of those you glance like it and turn and turn away, but don't double take and that's fine?

Well Even the initial coveting is sinful. And if you recognize it, you say, let's say, I'll just use a car as an example. And uh like me, man, I would love to have my old sixty seven SS Camaro back. I had that car, I wrecked it with me in it, two years to recover from the injuries. I'd love to have a 67 SS Camaro.

And when I see one, there's one around the area here. I rarely see it, but every few years I see it. Oh man.

Now that's appreciation. But How could I get that car? That's covering. You know, as long as it's not the intention of stealing or anything like that, but what if I could raise the money?

Well, then, you see, there's this gray area. And if everything that you want of it is legitimate, you can desire it, but it's not controlling you and you can get it in a right way, that's okay. But if you desire it in a Over, and this is where it's objective, an overly intense. desire that becomes a persistent thing in your mind. Uh that is bad and uh it needs to be controlled.

Now that could happen for a moment, it could happen repeatedly. And this is where the subjectivity gets involved here quite a bit. Shoe. Yeah, that's good. Um so I ask you a lot of different questions here because uh yeah, that's okay, but but um Uh stealing So we know stealing from another person is wrong.

If there's say there's a deception game where stealing is expected basically. Is engaging and basically with the societal the social contract you guys. invisibly sign is when you play this game, it's expected to do that kind of stuff. Is that sinful to steal in that situation? or lie.

It was the same kind of a thing.

So stealing is taking something that belongs to somebody else. and without their consent or in violation.

So if you're in a game where lying is understood to be kind of a thing going on because you know it's a detective game and you're trying to you know, you get the then everybody knows that this is part of the game. And so therefore, Uh it does not Strictly fall under the category of stealing or lying because all the participants are aware of it in this game.

However, Uh I I can't play in those games because I can't lie. I don't lie. And um so I can't play in a game where I need to uh b be intentionally deceptive to somebody, even though it's in the game. I can't do it.

Now My wife, as an example, my late wife. Uh, you know, I early on in our marriage, I said, you know, if you tell me, you ask me what do you think of this dress, I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, I can't lie to you. and I never lied to her. Ever.

And uh she understood.

So Well, that's my that's my heart before my Lord. But others, I can't put that on them if they're in a game, excuse the word deception, where deception is mandatory, necessary in that game. It's like war. What have you do in real war?

Well, then you're in a broader game, so to speak, and deception is expected. And I don't have the ethical knowledge to be able to work through that right now.

So it's a it's a tough one. the top one. Gotcha. Yeah, I I I'm of the opinion at the moment that in terms of something that is not real life, like a game or whatever. If it is if it there are mechanics and basically there's like a a social contract and playing it, that these are things expected and potentially available as options, I think in that case it's okay, but I also am out of the mindset.

Is the stealing a thing for everything for or lying for for everything, you know, or am I just trying to make excuses to send? Yeah. And then we can get into some very interesting nuances. Let's say you're playing football. and you got the ball and you fake out a direction.

Is that deception? Yes, but it's part of the game's understanding and it's within the parameters and all people are participating.

So it's not a moral deception. It's an accepted parameter deception part of it. and uh bluffing in in in poker, you know, and um and stuff like that. And So these are personal issues we have to work with. Hey, we got a break, so hold on.

I don't know if you want to stay or not, because it's an interesting topic.

So Hey folks, we right back after these messages. Alan IPSTEL stays on. Hope he does. We can talk about it some more. But if you want to call, the number is 877-207-221.

7.6, they're right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you can.

877-207-22. Seven, six. All right, Ellen. Still there? Yep.

Yeah. You know, uh Charlie brought up a good thing. Charlie, he said a curveball in baseball is deceptive. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Here's a question. Is deception lying, though? Uh Well, then we have to define what lying is.

So lying is an intention. to deceive. By your sp in order to r misrepresent something, usually for your gain or your thing like that. And God can't do that. And so that's why it's wrong.

But, like I said, in the games where a curveball is thrown, it's a form of deception. Or a fake when you're going to tackle a run, you know, these are acceptable.

So I've always wondered. Could you know if God was a pitcher? Could he throw curveballs? I don't know. You know, what about war?

Could you use deception in war? And so could God himself do it? I don't know. But uh at any rate, it's interesting things. There's two things with that I'm curious on our answer for.

The one is when God confused the languages. Do you think that is a form of deception? It's just confusion, so they couldn't communicate to each other. Yeah, that's all.

Okay. So, and he needed to, and for other reasons too, future reasons. But deception is an intention of the heart.

So I'll be debating someone in prompted discussions, and they'll say, you just lied. And And I'll say to them, No, I don't lie. Yes, you did, you just lied. Maybe I said something that. They don't think represented the truth of something.

They say, You just lie. But no, there's a difference between an intentional lie, that's what a lie is, and a mistake. You may think something's true and say something that's not true because you think it's true, but at the same time, you're not lying. Because lying deals with the intention of the heart, So if a child believes that Santa is real and tells his mom, oh, Santa's real. He's not lying, he believes the truth, but he's not telling the truth at the same time.

Okay. It's misinformation, so lying is an intentional act of deception. Whereas misinformation can just be It it's just yeah, it's just information that's not true. Right. If lying was described as or defined as misinformation, then all of us would be lying all the time.

Should be the Yeah. Gotcha. What what are your thoughts about Jesus speaking a parable? Do you think that's a good idea? Any kind of deception with that?

No. He speaks in parables for a reason. Romans f uh Romans uh Mark 4, 10 through 12. When they asked you this, why are you speaking uh uh in parables? And the reason is so they'll people not be forgiven.

So Parables. are not the hiding of truth. They're the encoding of truth. They are meant to illustrate a point. And their purpose, in part, is for you to think so you can learn.

So it's an instructive thing. that can be used to not uh help people understand. Like the book of Revelation is like that. The book of Revelation A lot of commentators, and I agree. State that the reason it's written that way is so the unbelievers won't understand it.

Because you have to look at the Old Testament and a lot of scriptures in order to figure out what they're talking about.

So that's not a it's it's a it's a it's a hiding, but not a deception.

Okay. So it's more of a uh puzzle or trial. Um as like a learning experience in a sense. What's the it? Uh parables.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it the parables, like I said, um are instructional and you dig. Like a short story, like I write short stories. And So I have a character named Bernard P. Rumford.

He's a He's a thumb uh he works at a thimble factory and he's an accountant. Yeah. And uh He loves uh beetles and you know bugs, bug, you know. And so his life is there.

Well, anyway, it's a fictional book. And there are things in there that are just simply not true because they don't represent actuality.

So is that a deception?

Well, no. Because we know going in, it's fiction. Just like a sci-fi novel I wrote, same thing. There's quite a bit of varying degrees of understanding we can get into this. That's why I say just look at lying as the intention to deceive somebody.

And it's not for their benefit, not that lying for their benefit makes it okay, but it's an intention to deceive, the far one direction, the far side of this. You want to hurt them, deceive them, whatever it is, and/or protect yourself from a truth that will, so lying is a means of that, and that's sinful.

Okay. Right. Gotcha. There was, um, I'm not going to take too much too much more of your time. I already got like almost two bricks used up.

Um. But I know you so one thing I thought about is so even today I think you mentioned Eastern Orthodox.

Okay. I talked with someone who claimed to be Orthodox, and they say there is no Eastern Orthodox, they're just Orthodox. What is your um There's Eastern Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy.

So he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Okay? Yeah, I should.

Okay. Cool. And uh It's like saying, you know, there's only only Christianity.

Okay. What is that? Oh, yeah, the umbrella for a thousand of religions, yes. Right. And so it's not true.

And Eastern Orthodoxy is definitely not Christian. The more I study it, the more I'm convinced it's really bad. And what's really interesting to me is why people are getting uh hooked up in it. It's just fascinating to me why anybody would join.

Something like that. I just don't get it. all these smells and bells And gold and silver and guys with With uh big fancy garments and and just That that that's our relationship with Christ? No, it's not that. You know?

It's just it. Yeah, i you go straight to Christ, not through a church. Anyway, i it it blows me away, you know. I don't I don't get it. That's deception of Satan in in those churches.

Yeah. Yeah. I uh I had three verses. Uh Eastern Orthodox, they do veneration of Mary too, right? Just like Roman Catholicism.

Yes, uh yes. They turn her and both of them turn her into a functioning goddess by attributing characteristics to her such as being able to comprehend a million I use million as a representative number a million prayers uh simultaneously, comprehending them, knowing the intentions and knowing the intentions of God so she can answer them. This is turning our new a functioning goddess. Yeah. I have some verses I I think you should write down of what I looked up and to kind of counter their veneration of Mary It was Exodus twenty, uh, verse four.

And also Leviticus 26.1. Yep, I'm I'm quite familiar with these. Yep. What about Isaiah 8, verse 19?

Okay now that one, I'm not. Let's look the look this one up. Hold on. Isaiah Eight. Nineteen.

Okay, I'm reading, I'm gonna break, so hold on, I'll be right back.

Okay, hold on. Hey, folks, you're right back. After these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Oh, Robin, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8772-072276. Alan, you're back on. All right. Good verse.

I like it. Yep. Mm. See, yeah, like with uh with Exodus twenty four, I uh I looked at uh I looked at Strong's and Biblical usage of the phrase an idol. And uh let me Uh let me look at that.

It's uh yeah, a carved graven image as one of the strong definitions. King James translation count has graven image, carved image, graven. Mm-hmm. And it's just like clear as day. And because some people give the argument of like, it's not made of gold or something like that.

It's like it's. It's it's an image. And it's and it's carved. like there were some other things where it was like made of stone and stuff like that too. And I'm just like.

you are blinded in your own self-deception. Absolutely.

I I cannot tell you how many countless conversations I've had about this. I actually wrote an article on Carm uh dealing with this. About Mary, Roman Catholicism, Mary, and idolatry. And I could adapt this to Eastern Orthodoxy. But I go if you go down to that, you'll see a table and altars to idols.

and I show where uh they are in the Bible. Excuse me, I show them, excuse me, from the biblical perspective, altars to idols. And then I show in Catholicism their altars to Mary. And then the same thing, we're bowing down to images. is prohibited in Scripture, yet the Catholics bare bow down.

Images in the house of God. All these are Old Testament things with. The Catholic Church's parallels, including images in the house of God, idols in the hearts, which is Ezekiel 14:3, kissing statues, making graven images, making male and female images, praying to what those images represent, request for deliverance from those images.

Now they know those images aren't those actual things that are live, but they're used. and uh worshiping of the images, false worship of false gods. Yeah, they're idolaters. A Catholic Catholic Church, and they're idolaters. Yep.

Uh-huh. I don't even necessarily like even having a a cross, uh even though I don't like worship the c the cross. uh I don't even like having that. Like I'm very anti uh image. Like I I don't even I try not to even think of like or picture anything when I pray to.

Yeah. Well, sometimes they'll come back and they'll say, Oh, do you have an image of your wife in your wallet? you know? And uh they just get ridiculous. But yeah, I don't like to have any images of the Lord.

I have crosses in my house, but that's as far as I'll go because it's not, I don't use it. Yeah, and that's nothing in heaven. You know, the cross isn't in heaven. You know. Right.

And uh Okay. Yeah, but with Isaiah though, if you look at the Strong's concordance for the word consult in biblical usage, Um Hi, uh There are wh what what's interesting is It talks about basically why are they talking to people talking to the dead and the dead and not directly their God. Right. And and so Mary's obviously dead, you know, ever Yeah. And they'll say, No, she's alive.

Just say, No, she's alive. And you'll, yeah, we understand that. We understand. Yeah. Oh, they play games.

Yeah, I, yeah. Yeah. And also Deuteronomy. Uh chapter 18, verses 11 to 12 is something I also speak with them about. Right.

Spiritums calling out the dead. Yep, absolutely. And that's what they're doing. And I tell them that they are practicing what's called spiritism. This is what they're doing, contacting the dead.

Don't do that. And uh in fact, if you want. We gotta get other callers now, all filled up. But if you want, you could go to Carm and look up Marian apparitions from Guadalupe and Fatima. And this is because I'll get ahead of myself.

Because they clean up, they're demons actually. Yeah, they're demons. And the Catholic Church can't even tell. But as you read through the six, I have three and three, three from Gaudelupic, three from Fatima, you can see the. the uh development of demonic doctrine.

in them. Even to the point of offering sacrifices to for reparation against sins committed against Mary. These apparitions are warning or requiring.

So there's a lot there. It's because they bow down before idols, before objects, and then justified is okay. These churches are Leading millions to eternal damnation. Because the Bible says idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. Hey, hey man, we got other guys waiting, so we'll get to them.

But call back because, man, you're doing it. You're doing it. I like that verse. I wrote it down. I appreciate it.

Yeah, no worries. I hope you have a good one, Matt. You too, man. God bless. Good stuff.

Okay, let's get to Sal from California. Sal, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, thank you. Question: On, I went to church last Sunday and While we were in church, they were singing.

And all of a sudden there you know, there's a few people that start speaking in tongues during the singing part. And just kind of wanted to get your take on that on how you feel about that and I was reading through 1 Corinthians 14, verse 15, where it was talking about tongues and. Um you know, interpretation of it and of you know, both singing, they're gonna sing in the spirits.

So is that something that they use to like justify themselves that that's okay to do, but Yeah.

So this is a problem. All right. So I talked to a pastor of a church who was reformed and they would occasionally have people sing in tongues.

Okay. And I said, You shouldn't do that. You know, it was very polite. He says, That's not a political thing to do. He says, No, it talks about singing in tongues.

And I said, yeah, but why is it that the Bible says don't do this? this issue of of speaking in tongues. Because if you speak in a tongue, like two or three at most, you know, with interpretation. There's no interpreter. Then keep quiet.

Because, you know, for God is not a God of confusion, okay, but of peace. And if an unbeliever comes in, where's the verse that says in 14? If an unbeliever comes in and hears this, doesn't understand, they're going to think you're crazy.

So I said, so in tongues, speaking in tongues, this is why it needs to be with interpretation, so that the unbelievers aren't confused if they were to be in church and you're not degrading the message of the truth of Christ. And he goes, Yeah, I agree. And he said, But if you do tongues, I mean you sing in tongues.

Now it's okay? the exact same thing's going to occur. And he goes, Oh, that's a good point. Exactly. And that was happening because sometimes they film live for Facebook.

And You have people making comments on there. That guy's right there by the camera, he's talking in tongues so much, and we can't really focus or pay attention because they're hearing him do that. And that was my point where it's saying like, you know, God is not the author of confusion. And And there's no edification of the church by him doing that, maybe for himself, but not for the church. And it's like some.

I don't know if these pastors are not trying to correct it or. Are we at a point with this? Where even when they pray for you, they put their hands on you and they start speaking in tongues, but that's. Yeah. It's like, okay, where where You know They do it because they're so comfortable with it.

So, look, I say on the radio: I have a pastor friend, and he's from Calvary Chapel, and he speaks in tongues. And we've been together praying, and he'll ask me, Do you have any problem if I pray in tongues while we're praying together? I said, No, not at all. I don't need to know what the interpretation is because it's just he and me. I trust him.

He's a good man. And so that's not a problem. In a church setting, that's different. There needs to be an interpreter, otherwise, we'll keep quiet. That's all simple.

And that's what they should be doing. And when unbelievers, the issue is that the unbelievers, what they not think you're crazy? We don't want the unbelievers to be stumbled. See? And that was my point.

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Oh, no, no. That was my point, too. Because I believe that there is something, but I believe that a lot of people can fake it too, because. Uh, some of the it just sounds some of it, just you know, but it's not up to, you know, I'm just kind of. Just in everything all the time, and and it sounds You know, it just sounds sometimes like, oh, that might not be right, but oh, that might be right right there, but, you know, but like.

Well, look at 1 Corinthians. I had co-workers say, I went to that church and, man, I ain't going back again. They were laying hands and talking in tongues, and you know what I mean? And they were just kind of like, oh, I'm not coming back over here. It's kind of a little wild for me.

That's 1 Corinthians 14, 23. Therefore, the whole church assembles together, all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter. Will they not say, You're mad? This is exactly the concern. That's what the screen is.

I'm just like, but. I guess the tongue are are they using it different nowadays Then, when the church first started, and probably. Yeah, that's another discussion. Yeah, but anyways, and I just remembered why I don't go to a church like that no more, because I was. going to a church for years like that because where I'm from, there's that's all there is pretty much.

you know, but I just take what was good and then just you know that I thought that were just you know And then just kind of like block up the other thing because I didn't want to participate in the, you know, and that's not hey, look, we got a break coming up, okay?

So we gotta go because there's this, I don't know if you can hear the break music, but there it is.

So we're gonna move along.

Okay, buddy, appreciate it, man. Call back. We'll talk about it some more, okay? All right, buddy, God bless. Stay forward to be right back after these messages.

Please, stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get on with Garland from North Carolina, then Jordan from New Mexico.

Garland, you're welcome. You're on the air. Just the slings. Hey. Love you, my brother.

How are you doing today? Doing all right, man. Appreciate it. You got me smiling already.

So, what do you got, buddy? What's up? Yeah, let me take Me, my intro. I talked to you one year ago today on my 13th anniversary of God giving me the miracle that I asked Him for. He saved me from a head first fall from about twenty seven feet onto a concrete slab.

And I am still here today.

So I talked to you. thirteenth anniversary. I've only talked to you once. This is the second time on my fourteenth anniversary of God giving me the miracle that I asked him for.

Well, praise God, man. Praise God. When the conversation ended, your last words were, So if anybody says that it is by faith and commandment keeping, And they don't know the true gospel. That's right. They need to repent and come to the true gospel.

Right. And you were saying that's all that I was going to go over with him.

So my follow-up question is So what do I need to repent from? And what is this true gospel that you say and that I need?

Okay. Well, the c the context of that comment about repentance was repenting from the false gospel that faith in your works is what gets you salvation. You need to repent. Stop believing that, because salvation is only by faith alone, in Christ alone.

Now when Christ and the apostles call us to repentance and believe the gospel, they're telling us, stop sinning, stop doing these evil things, and you believe that gospel.

Now it's not that repenting saves us, it's believing that saves us. But they're tied together. Because God wants us to not sin. We are saved from that. And so the admonition is: don't sin, stop this stuff, believe in Jesus for the sins you've already committed, you will be forgiven.

But you don't achieve salvation by faith and your repentance, by faith and keeping commandments. That's the point, okay?

Okay. It would that indicates Jesus never sinned, right? That's correct, he never sent first Peter two twenty two.

So, do you think Jesus kept his Father God's commandments while he was on earth, here on earth, for 33 years? Of course, he did. Yep, uh-huh.

So if Jesus kept the commandments and you said of course he did. Uh And he kept his father commandments, so how can you tell me which is something else you said? that if Jesus said, take up the cross and follow me, But you say, but keeping the commandments does not keep us right with God. Or make? us right with God.

So I'm saying, how can you say that when? Jesus kept his father's commandments. And I'm saying You say it's a false stuff. I don't under the Father. John 5.19, John 5.30.

He never sinned. 1 Peter 2.22. What does that mean? But that does not mean. I'm sorry?

What does that mean Jesus was God in flesh? Jesus has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. He's God in flesh. It's from the doctrine of the Trinity. where the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, John one fourteen.

So he's both divine and human. He has two natures, and he has attributes of both natures. divine nature stuff and human nature stuff. People have no problem saying that Jesus was a man because he walked and he talked. And they recognized the human nature.

due to the human properties walking, talking, eating, sleeping.

Okay. But they fail, a lot of people, to recognize the divine nature when he does those things that are divine. When he says, He and the Father will come and make their abode in you, He and God the Father will live in you. That's John 14:23. Or when he says in John 8, excuse me, Matthew 28:20, he says that he will be with the disciples forever, wherever they go.

all over the world.

So he's claiming to indwell, he's claiming to be everywhere, and other verses show this. That's who he is. I've written a great deal, and I've debated it many times.

Okay. So Jesus did what was right because he's made under the law, Galatians 4:4. Salvation for us is by grace through faith, not by works, lest any man should boast, Ephesians 2:8 and 9, because we can't do any good works. Nobody does anything good. Romans 3, 10, 11, and 12.

No one does any good because our hearts are wicked. I'm sorry. Power's commandments. and that he desires for us to do his things.

Okay. Yes, we're supposed to follow commandments, but that's not what saves us. We can't follow them. Because the standard of Of commandment keeping is Jesus, not us. No one keeps the commandments.

Nobody.

Okay. No one does what now? No one keeps the commandments. No one keeps the commandment. That's right.

And there are, let me just go over a few Bible versions with you.

Okay. You said no one keeps Mm. It's just Jesus. I also have loved you. Abide in my love.

If you keep my commandments, You will abide in my love. Just as I have kept my father's commandments. And about in his love. That's right. John 6:31 says.

That's right. So, what I'm talking about in the context is the standard of law-keeping is Jesus, not us. I say this statement to people because if they say they're going to keep the commandments, I understand there's two levels where we can talk about this. You know, I don't lie to people. I don't covet this stuff.

I'm not out to committing adultery and robbing and stealing. In the general sense, I'm keeping the commandments.

However, What I was talking about in that context was the same level as Jesus, and nobody does that. Because commandment keeping, a lot of people think is that this will get them right with God.

Well, then you better be doing it on the level of Jesus because He's the standard, not you. That's why the Bible says in Romans 3:10, 11 and 12: no one does good. No one.

So, in the ultimate sense, nobody's keeping the commandments. On a generic sense, some people keep them. You know, they don't lie.

Okay. But that does not mean their heart is on the same level or their ability to perfection the same level as Jesus. And that's why I distinguish between those.

Okay. Okay. No, yeah, I'm I'm definitely still here.

So when Jesus says, take up the cross. And follow me. What does that mean? It means follow him the way he was going. He says, pick up the cross and follow after me.

It doesn't mean pick up the cross and you'll be saved. People often forget that justification, a legal declaration of righteousness, is by faith without any works. Romans 4:1 through 5 clearly says this. Romans 5:1, Galatians 2:16, Philippians 3:9 clearly teaches this. Of course we're supposed to follow Jesus and not lie and steal and pick up our cross, but those aren't the things that save us or get us right with God.

It's the blood of Christ that does that.

Okay. So I'm I'm just trying to understand Okay. If The commandments of God and His Son Jesus Christ. are written on our heart. And with every breath that you take, until your heart stopped beating.

Do you think as long as you are breathing that the commandments that God wrote on your heart have been done away with. That doesn't bring bails. It doesn't make sense to me, but it does. Look, I didn't say the commandments were done away with.

Okay. But again, I never said the commandments are done away with. I said you can't be saved by keeping those commandments. The Bible says by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. Romans 3.20.

We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Uh Romans 3.28. To the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5. It doesn't mean the commandments aren't there.

It doesn't mean we're not supposed to keep them. It means that that's not how we get saved. We keep the commandments because we love our Lord. We honor Him because we love our Lord. Not to get saved or keep ourselves saved, that's false doctrine.

Okay. Okay. When when you basically Say that you do not keep the commandments, and a lot of people go into legalism. But Mm-hmm. What I'm saying is When you say you save But you don't try to go and say you are committed to doing what Jesus told us to do.

Or you don't surrender to his own. I didn't see that, but that's not what I'm saying. You're not hearing me. We're supposed to do those things. But I think your point is: don't avoid them.

Do those things. Be good, be honest, love God, love your neighbor. Do them. You're supposed to. Doing them does not save you.

It does not keep you saved. What are the purpose? L can you explain to me what are the purpose of God writing his commandments on our heart? Wh why would he do that and we just you didn't say we ignore them, but you say we don't have to I don't. You're not hearing me.

I didn't say we have to do them. I keep saying the same thing, you're not listening. We're supposed to do the commandments. We're supposed to. I'm not saying don't.

Keep them. Don't lie to people. Be honest. Do those things. Love God, love your neighbor.

Do them. You're supposed to. Doing them does not save you doing them does not keep you saved. The only thing that saves you is your faith in Christ, your trust in Christ. That's what's going on.

I'm going to bring it back to the physical.

Okay. What do you think in the United States of America would be like if anyone could just go out and steal, kill and destroy and there was no law in place to do anything about the crime that they had Okay. This is for the Christian. I'm talking about the Christian. The Christian is born again, the Christian has Jesus living in them.

They don't want to do those evil things. The law is a guide for the Christians. It's not the thing that saves us. You have to understand this. I'm going to give you some homework.

You need to read Romans three, Romans four, and Romans five. I'm gonna get the next caller, but you need to read Romans 3, 4, 5. And you call you back tomorrow, okay? Read Romans 3, 4, 5.

Okay, brother. All right. I want to get to Jordan from New Mexico. He's been waiting a while. Before the time runs out, Jordan, we got about a minute and a half.

What a minute. One minute. What do you got, buddy? I'm sorry. Yeah, well, it was the same thing as l as yesterday you told me to call back.

So, I it was about the Eastern Orthodox Church and, um Them not I don't think they could really define the church without using our definition of church. And they say the church is infallible, but then when they claim who the church is, the people within the church aren't infallible. And so they I think they would have to just show a distinction Between the church and the people within the church, but I don't think they could do that. Right, it's because they're brainwashed. Yeah, yeah.

It's called the difference between the visible and the invisible church. The visible church is the smells and bells and the garments. The invisible church are those who dwell by God.

So there are members of the invisible church in the visible church. But they equate the visible church with the invisible church and say salvation has to be in their visible church, which is heresy, false teaching. And we're out of time, brother. The music's going to start.

So call back tomorrow. I love talking about Eastern Orthodoxy and exposing its multiple errors. But we just ran out of time, okay? All right. Hey, folks.

Wait, Joey. I'm praying in tongues. We can talk about that tomorrow. Call back tomorrow. May the Lord bless you all by His grace.

We'll be back on there tomorrow and. We'll talk to you then. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.