Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is June 8th, 2026. For the podcasters, if you want to give me a call, all you're going to do is dial 8-77-207-2276.

We got nobody waiting right now. We've got a couple things I can update you with or about. I sent a newsletter out today, the second one of the year. Trying to do it weekly now because things have been so difficult and so many things to do to catch up with stuff that I've got to be doing. And man, I'm just telling you, I'm working a lot.

Which is good. Uh, even though he's seventy At the end of the year, I can't believe how much I'm still working. But hey, look, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. You can also email me at info at CARM.org. Info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G for the subject line, radio comment, or radio question.

Now, about that newsletter, if you want to sign up, just go to the CARM site. At the top, it says newsletter, and very bottom. I think there's a link. Let me see, there's a link. No, just at the top of the page it says a newsletter.

Just clip that. We don't sell the information, we don't do anything with it. And that's it.

So that's all there is. We don't have that many. We used to have thousands and thousands and thousands. And then this really kind of irks me. But when we switched over to the new system and we have to abandon another, it gets really complicated.

That we lost about 10,000 signups.

So, uh It's just what it is. You know, I'm not worried about it. But if you want to join up on the newsletter and just hear see what's Carm is doing and stuff like that, just go to uh carm.org forward slash no, no forward slash just go to the top, it'll be uh newsletter. All right, and that's all you got to do, and uh It's easy. It is easy to do.

And I think that is it. Number again to call 877-207-2276. Let's get to Jamal from North Carolina. Jamal, welcome here on the air. Hey, brother Slick, how's it going today?

It's going, man. How are you doing, buddy? I can't complain. Just wanted to oh, thank you for taking my call, by the way. I always gotta mention that because you couldn't reject my call, but I'm glad you still take my calls.

Yeah, I know who you are and I still take them. That's right. I know. That's unbelievable. I'm so thankful for that.

Such a nice guy. I wanted to ask about who all is responsible for compiling the works of the Bible.

Okay.

Well, now when you say who that can be understood differently because we could say individuals, Bob and Frank did it. But I think you just mean basically the Jews and the Christians did it.

So the Jews are the ones, according to Romans 3.2, Paul says the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.

So they're the ones who assembled the the Old Testament books. We don't know what criteria they use or how they knew, which is really, I think, is interesting. How did they know, for example, that Isaiah was scripture or was inspired by God or Esther? I don't know. Never even heard any arguments for it.

But guess what? The New Testament was written by the apostles. And the Emanuensis of the Apostles, the scribes of the Apostles, like Luke. Was a researcher, and Mark was a researcher and writer, and he wrote for the apostles, and the apostles approved it.

So, uh, then we would say that uh the the Christians are the ones who recognize the inspired word, and then different times they were assembled.

So the the the long range of writing of the New Testament, like in the year 40, 44, 43 to 90-ish, in that range. And then there were different councils that put them together. And it'd be interesting to see a chart of which ones accepted, which ones didn't, at different times. But uh Council of Hippo, Council of Carthage, is pretty early. And then they, by then, had figured out what the books of the Bible really were.

And I'm not a historian, so I don't know all that stuff, but that's about basically what it is. Yeah.

Okay.

Okay, is that on card by any chance? Because I didn't think about taking notes while you were talking. I apologize. No, let's see. Not an article titled Who Compiled the Books of the Bible, but there is When Was the Bible Written and Who Wrote It.

I have charts there, but that's just more of a table issue of what it is.

So the Bible, let's see, I have stuff I got lots of articles on them. When was the Bible written? Who wrote it? When was the book of Acts written? Other books mentioned in the Bible.

So I don't know if I have an article just on that title who compiled the books, which I don't think I did. Interesting. You think I was a little bit more. Yeah.

Thanks a lot for giving me more work to do. I really appreciate it. Hey, that's what I printed before, right? That's right. And it gives me more work.

And now, let's see, my list, which is decreasing. Was one thousand forty-three, and now it's down to. one thousand eighty two. There we go.

So it's decreased.

Some strange math. It's strange math. I know. Every time I write an article, it seems as though there's more to write. And um So I actually put uh I got it all got them all in not all, but almost all the questions I have in different categories.

Sin, science, I'm going backwards in my list. personal issues You know, and oh man, look at all the Mormonism. I got how many would huge. What's this one? Man, I'm scrolling up.

Oh, this is on oh miscellaneous questions. I've got like two hundred in there. Anyway. Yeah, I'm surprised there's not more than that for miscellaneous. Yeah, well, I have lots of them.

You know, the idea of writing questions, theology questions, I'm the one who started that, I guess. I mean, I don't know of anybody who's doing it before me, on the website back in 1995, 96. you know, questions and um questions and answers.

So I've been doing that for many years. Oh, look at this, it's m oh my goodness, it's more than that. Oh, man, it's more than a thousand eighty something. Oh crap. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just saw a little Oh, you slime ball Yep. Uh-huh. The uh the HTML is has a double Um terminus and for Um Lists and it's it's miscounting it.

So I don't know. It's it's it's like a lot. And that slime ball thing was for his computer guys, in case you were wondering. For a while, so in case you're wondering, oh my gosh, Matt Flicks. Oh, no, that was for the computer.

No, I you know, the people I like, I call them jerks, morons. What do you want? You know, stuff like that. You know, people call up, what do you want? You know, and um.

Have a good time like that. And say things like, like, yeah, I knew it was you, and I still took your call. You know, basic stuff, you know, basic. Exactly. That's right, that's how it works.

Yeah, oh man, look at all this.

Sorry, go ahead.

Well, that's just because you're the man. I mean, people call you up for all kinds of questions.

So. You know, they coach you for a reason. But I have another question for you. Let's see. I'm trying to figure out how to frame it because this is a new topic for me.

I guess I'll just go ahead and ask it simply: have you heard of the Byzantine text Bible? Yes.

Well, yeah, the Byzantine text. I've heard about this stuff. And. stuff like that. But yeah, um I have.

What about it?

Well, there's a guy that's affiliated with Cooper Network. His name is Dr. Abadan Shaw, Clearview Church. And podcast, same name, podcast Clearview. And I think he has completed some works.

In regards to the physical text? Um, and they made a th though they say was a huge deal and they say it pretty much confirms that the Bible is inerrant aside from like a few like grammatical errors or something like that. But I didn't even know how big of a deal it was because I'm just not really in those circles.

So I just wanted to see what your thoughts were about it. Yeah, it's uh also called a majority text, I believe. You know, as they go back and they construct From ancient manuscripts, and they go back further and further in manuscripts, they find the coherence of the text just is improved. It was really interesting in this kind of a vein. There are uh new uh King James only people who say that don't trust in modern translations because they've taken things out of the Bible.

They don't realize that the King James has actually added things to the Bible. They don't realize that because things have crept in over the years, and it's just a fact. There are textual variants that occur, but it's not like 80% of the Bible. It's like 0.02% or some weird low number. But uh and then there are uh different ways that these these kind of textual variants will occur, like the word ha, which is the word tha, is a single letter o.

with a rough breathing mark or comma over it, just so it's a ha. And that single letter can fall off on a parchment or a vellum. As it's copied, or somebody could just forget it because they're tired of their copying under low light, might miss it. You know, varying things. And so the, the, Older they knew were the manuscripts, that means more time has passed for little mistakes like that to have crept in.

And so the older manuscripts have fewer of those things. And that's why they say, you know, go back in time is more accurate. And the King James used uh tenth, twelfth century documents where the NESV, uh NIV, ESV used the uh uh second, third, fourth century documents.

So it's a big deal. It's a thousand year difference, roughly, of stuff. It's just something to add.

Now, people think the King James is, you know, the per word of God is very good, but it's just not the. Yeah.

Not the end to all of all things. But at any rate, so the Byzantine text, I don't have an article on how the Bible was compiled. It's a generic thing. It was compiled by the people of God in the Old Testament, Romans 3:2. Paul says God entrusted the Jews with the oracles of God.

And so they were. They were entrusted with that by God. And the church, the Christian people, are the ones who understood the Word of God in the New Testament. And they're the ones who. I would Told it it was.

Okay.

All right, sounds good. Just uh real quick, I know you got some of the callers coming in. Uh Could you um How can I say this real fast? Could you go through real quick about the Old Testament and the New Testament and How many continents and how many authors real quick? Yeah, basically three languages, three continents, um and forty authors.

So there's three languages, Aramaic, which is a a dialect of Hebrew. which is a few only a few uh few verses relatively speaking, and uh and in Greek.

So Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek, and uh three different uh continents. a roughly 1600 year period of writing. 40 different authors, three different languages. I already said that. And there's something else, I'm trying to remember.

Three continents, three. Languages, forty authors, sixteen hundred years. and it's coherent throughout its whole its whole system. It works very nicely. The Bible does.

And you said the He said that the New Testament was by the apostles and the Old Testament was by the Jews, correct? That's right. The Old Testament was written by the Jews. God trusted them with the oracles of God, and that's it. Control.

Praise God for that. God did it. He used the Jews, he used the Christians. That sounds good. Thank you as always, Matt.

And I support him. $10 a month is not much. I support him. We want to keep this guy on the air. He also supports missionaries, which is very key.

So do your part to keep him on the air. He's a resource. Thank you, Matt. Take care, and God bless, sir. Thanks for the plug.

Appreciate it. God bless Jamal. Talk to you later, man.

Alright. Yeah, he's a good guy. We hung out in North Carolina for a little while there when I was out here to speaking. He's a good guy. All right, Mark from California.

Mark, welcome. You're on the air. I um I've been reading the uh the two demonic men and Catching out, you know, into the pigs and into the oceans. Matt, there's two. Can you hold on, man?

We got a break, okay, buddy? Hold on, man.

Sorry about that. All right, hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. If you want to give me a call, 8772-07-2276. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. All you got to do is dial 877-2072276.

Let's get back on with. Mark from California. Mark, welcome, brother. You're on the air. All in about the demonic and the pigs, and Matthew tells us there's two.

Um The account in Mark and Luke Is it the same person? It's the same event. The literary devices back then are different than what we would say now.

So. There's not a logical, it's not a contradiction, for example. And this is an analogy I give, then I'll go into a little bit more literary stuff: what they were doing.

So, if you and I are in the opposite sides of an intersection, say there's a four-way stop. And we're at the opposite corners. We're waving to each other. And a black car and a white car get an offender bender in the middle of the intersection. You see it, and I see it.

The police get your eyewitness account, my eyewitness account, and I say, There were two people, I saw two people get out of the white car, and you say, I saw one person get out of the white car. It's not a contradiction. If I said if you said there was only one person in the white car, And I said, no, there's two. That's a contradiction because both cannot be true.

So if I see two and you see one, then you didn't see the other, it's not a contradiction. But if you said only one is in the car, and I said, no, there's two, that's a contradiction because both can't be true. In the Jewish system of writing, they could have a story, or two demoniacs are there. And then Mark could then emphasize the issue of which one it is that they want to focus on Without negating the existence of the other, just not mentioning it, not saying there's only one, he's just saying this is the one we're going to focus on. It's a literary device that was used by the Jews back then, and that's all that's going on.

So there was two. Yeah.

Sure.

Okay.

It's fascinating. There's a lot in these You know, three I won't call them versions, but. You know, as you're reading through them, it's pretty amazing stuff. But okay. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, there is. Yeah.

Alright. I'll keep reading and come up with some more questions.

Okay, brothers.

Sounds good, man. Maybe I'll have some more answers. All right. God bless.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, now if you want to give me a call, it's easy, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from him and give me a call.

So Saturday I had an interesting encounter. With someone. And boy, I really got upset with him too. I really did. I got to learn how to.

Control that's rare that I ever get upset, but I really did. And um I'm online. He's an East Orthodox guy, right? And I'm online talking to this guy, and so annoying because. All the guys are backing him up.

All the EO and the RC and the Mormons, they're all on his side. And no matter what I say, no matter what I say, they're going to find something wrong with it. And they write things down that I say months ago. Then they'll say, You said this months ago. What about this right now?

And I mean, they really have to get at me. And I have to jump into the fray. Yeah.

Well anyway, so um We had these discussions, and I had to write stuff down. Like, I had to write the exact wording. And if I change one word when I'm repeating something back to this EO guy, he gets upset. And that's not what I was saying. It's just, see, there's you go, misrepresenting me.

And he always accuses.

Okay, anyway.

So. Something very interesting occurred, in my opinion, and I just get cut to the quick.

So we got talking about salvation, what's necessary to be saved from his perspective. And because he was saying the book of Romans is not answering the question. Uh what do we do to get saved? It's not about that.

Now, even now, as I say that, You see, I had to be careful because someone in that group might have been listening to me right now and noticed that I didn't say the exact right sentence. And then he'll bring it up. And why are you lying back? This is how ridiculous they are. Take it.

So I I uh I said, look. I gave an outline of the book of Romans, which I've taught many times, verse by verse over the years, several times. I know it. And I said, no, it includes the issues of individual salvation. And he said, no.

And then he said, yes, and then whatever.

So I said, what do you got to do to be saved? And what's Paul teaching about what an individual needs to do to be saved? And he went to Romans 2:6. He says, Who will render each person according to his deeds? And I, you know, I'm going to skip through a lot of stuff here.

And I said, okay, what are the deeds that you have to do to be saved? And he started giving them to me. And includes all almsgiving, not lying and stealing and committing adultery and stuff like this. And I asked him Are you doing them? And he said, I'll get this.

Well He said Do you mean perfectly? And I said I didn't I didn't say perfectly. I said, Are you doing them? He said, Well, what do you mean doing them? You know, I was like, oh man, are you doing them?

Are you doing these deeds you say you got to do? And he said, Well, no, no one's perfect. And I said, I didn't say perfection here. I just said, Are you doing them? That's all I asked.

And of course, he's always trying to hedge his bets on every single thing, in every syllable, every word, every phrase. And finally, I got him to say, well, no, he's not doing them. And I said, what's your standard? uh of of righteousness. And uh I'm trying to remember exactly what was going on.

I've got the notes elsewhere. There's a lot of notes. I wrote 1600 words of notes. And um Yeah. That night I keep notes, and it turns out I've got several years of notes from this guy, and I'm going to do a compilation and um I'm going to use his own words against him later.

I saw some stuff. But anyway.

So, are you doing these things? He says, no, imperfectly. And I says, well, wait a minute. Romans 3:23, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. To do something imperfectly, like a moral thing, is sin.

So, if you're supposed to be lying, you're supposed to never lie.

So, if you do it imperfectly, it means you're lying, it means it's a sin.

So that means you're getting to heaven by your imperfect deeds. which ultimately is sin to your sin, your sins contributing to your salvation. What would you face? Woo.

Now to me this is perfectly logical. If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C.

So he says, now think about this. He says, he's not keeping the laws perfectly, but imperfectly. And I said, that means then that you've sinned. And he says no, there's different kinds of of keeping the law. I said, really?

What's your standard? and he couldn't give me a standard. And Because I said the standard ultimately is Jesus. And he said, well, in the light of Jesus, no one can do it. And I said, exactly, which is why you need the gospel.

And He says, but he has to keep them. I said, but you're not doing them. He goes, Yes, I am. I said, No, you're not. You're not doing it perfectly.

He goes, See, there's going to the word perfectly again. You know, I'm like, Oh, my goodness.

Well, he is the standard, Jesus is the standard.

So, are you keeping them? And he said, no. They said, don't change the word perfectly.

Okay, are you keeping it perfectly? I'll ask that question. He said, no. I said, then you're doing it imperfectly, right? That's sin.

So if he's doing them imperfectly, And he's keeping the commandments but not properly. And we're doing it imperfectly, then that's sin, he says, no, it's not. You know, it's really interesting to see this guy as an Eastern Orthodox guy. It is fascinating to me. on how people will twist the word of God.

To justify their own opinions. And what this guy said was really interesting. He required me in front of the room to say that some of my interpretations might be faulty. I said, it's logically possible. And yet, I said, and yet at the same time, what he does, he assumes all his interpretations are correct.

And I said, why the hypocrisy? Oh, I'm telling you. It's an uphill battle against the cult mind. Hey, you'll be right back. Give me a call, 877-207-2276.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 87720-72276.

Mm.

Alright, to me there is a How do I say this? there is a real endeavor by people to not believe God's word. You know, when God says something, you should simply believe it because God says it. That's it. As simple as that might be, But God says it it's true.

That's it. If he says um to the one who does not work, but believes. In him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. And In this discussion that I had with this gentleman, this is worth just reviewing for other stuff. We got talking about this issue of And this applies to Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses.

Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox. Um The idea of performing Doing your works as a demonstration of your faith before God. And that a true faith will have true works, and both are necessary for salvation. And Joseus, Eastern Orthodox, Document Confessions of the Scythius, it says in Decree 3 and Decree 13: you have to do good works to be saved. Yeah.

In um Could they contribute to salvation? In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2068, 2036, and 2070, all three of those, basically, it says you have to do good works to be saved. In the book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25, 23, Moroni 10, 32, got to do good works to be saved. In Jehovah's Witnesses 1972, um april first. Uh it it says uh you have to keep the c the commandments to be saved.

And so To me having been truly saved. and still actually saved. I recognize that There is no way I can guarantee my own salvation if it depended in part on what I do. is just not possible. Because the standard of perfection is God, not myself, not my own imperfect keeping of law.

So I've talked to people like this guy on Saturday and others. and ask them if they're doing what they say is necessary. in order to be saved, but we are trying.

So I then say, well, if you're trying, it means you're not doing it. No, they're trying to do it. And I said so When does The scriptures say trying is just good enough. If it was just good enough, that means trying is good enough. That would be then.

a requirement. according to the law. That well, you're trying to be honest. That's okay, that's what counts. This is humanist philosophy.

trying to be honest. Isn't good enough for God. If it were, Well, then Jesus didn't die neither die on the cross. But he did die on the cross because our trying is never good enough. But his was perfect because he's God in flesh.

And so as I talked to people about this, I keep telling them, no, trust in Christ alone, not Christ and your works. And this is the the lie of Satan. Satan It says this. that if you want to be saved It's your faith. and what you do in your trying.

your goodness. over a period of time, that makes you more like Jesus. and then you can be saved. That is uh from the devil.

Okay.

Because But he He's smart. He knows. that it appeals to your ego and your sensibilities, that if you were to be saved, All you need is your sincerity. your sincerity, your Desire, you your ability. Because To a lot of people, the idea of being saved by grace through faith and not of yourselves.

but completely the work of God. That just doesn't make sense sometimes. Because people are just No, no, no. I have to do good things. I have to, me, me, me.

And they don't realize that such things are just not of God.

So When I was talking to these guys, you know, it was a collective kind of a thing. I've had this discussion thousands of times. I say, no, trust in Jesus alone. not in Jesus and something. You can't crawl up to the cross.

and then tack on your good works. As a list of good things that you've done, to say somehow that the combination of your effort. and Christ's blood. Will then manifest salvation for you. You could never have assurance, you could never know you were saved.

You could never know. Because you wouldn't know. 'Cause you haven't been good enough. Maybe you belong to a religious system. Yeah.

That tells you that in order for you to go to heaven, you have to demonstrate the goodness that's in your heart. You can't just go up and live evil lives and go to heaven. But you see, the problem here is a misunderstanding of what regeneration is. when God saves somebody. He justifies them.

He declares them righteous in the sight of God. That's Philippians 3:9. This occurs by faith. Romans 4.5 talks about this. But also, there's something uh different that occurs.

That they just so Well, they never bring up. It's called regeneration. where God makes us born again. John 3, 3 through 8. God indwells us.

Yeah, I um John 14, 23. And so This born-again experience where we're made new creatures, 2 Corinthians 5:17, we're different. And we are made different by what God does. He causes us to be born again, 1 Peter 1:3. And so we're different and we want to serve him.

It's not okay to go out and sin. No, may it never be. How we have died to sin still live in it. Romans 6:1 and 2. No, we live for the Lord Jesus Christ because we want to serve Christ.

but our works just can't contribute to it. And yet, so many people will say that they have to do the good works to be saved. No, then you're insulting the the cross of Christ. If God wanted you to add to the cross, He'd have said so. If he wanted to say, you have to Work to be saved, he'd have said so.

But he doesn't, in fact, through the Apostle Paul. It says in Romans 4:5, to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. Notice what Paul says: the one who does not work. but believes. Paul's negating works.

And when I was bringing this up to this EO. A yoke cultist. Um He said, no, the works, you know, there's different. I'm not going to say because let's put it this way. That he was saying that what was necessary is loving God and loving your neighbor necessary.

And I said, Are those the works of the law? Because Matthew 22, 37 through 40, Jesus says it's the summation of the law. And he says, yes, it is a summation of the law.

So you're saying that God will save you. Because you're doing those things. to show that you're you're trying to be godly. And this combination gets you saved, gets you right with God. He says that's that's right.

He says, notice what the verse says, Romans 4.5. To the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. And I asked him Do the ungodly love God and love their neighbours? At this point there was crickets. because he was stuck.

Because you see, if it's the ungodly who are justified by faith without works, obviously without works, because they're ungodly. Yeah.

and yet they're the ones justified by faith. Boom, this is easy. And, you know, a foolish young man got in and said that my doctrine was that of hireling.

Okay.

Mm-hmm. It's because it says Romans 4.4, one verse earlier. It says that um To the one who works, his way does not credit as a favorable what is due. He said, My doctor was a hireling, and I said, You're being foolish. I said, the hireling is the one who works for a wage, who gets something based on what he does.

That's exactly what you guys are saying, is that by your works combined with the bl the blood of Christ, you hope to achieve salvation. That's being a hiring. The spiritual blindness that is there is just immense. And I'm going to tell you guys. I need your prayers.

I dive into these worlds and I swim around in them in the turbulence of heresy and the. The torrent of accusations and malignant vituperations. I love that phrase. I swim around in that. And It can be very difficult sometimes.

It really can.

Sometimes I I I can, and I have on occasion lost my temper. Because there's so many people ganging up, so many people interrupting, so many people in their hypocrisy. It's just. difficult sometimes. For the most part I do very well.

I could use your prayers. Because what I'll do is I pray, and I say, Lord, teach me, as I go into these rooms, equip me. and go in there. Oh man, I'm telling you, it is difficult. I could certainly use your prayers in that because I'm out there battling in those heavy.

torrential waters, but you guys don't have to. But I do. And so I'm not saying I'm better, I'm not saying worse or good or bad or whatever. I'm just saying, hey, I could use your prayers. Getting out there and doing that isn't always easy.

I really could use those prayers.

Now, there's the break. If you want to give me a call, we have four open lines: 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. Just want to remind you before we get to the next caller that I do need to let you know we stand here by your support. And if you like what you hear and you want to support the CARM Intergalactic Ministry, you like the radio, you'd like the website and the books and the articles and the debates, please consider supporting us.

All you got to do is go to Carm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. The top of the page is the word donate. We ask five. $10, $15 a month, and that way it helps us to make budgets and help keep the lights on and pay the missionaries. And we are doing that.

We do need your support. Please consider it. We do need it. Let's get to Martin from Virginia. Martin, welcome here on the air.

Hey, good afternoon, Matt. I know it's I don't know. I guess you're still in boys, so it's still mid-afternoon. That's right. Getting ordered towards five o'clock for me.

All right, buddy. There you go.

So, hey, prayers your way. I know you asked for prayers and. You know, we all need prayers and kind of go through some stuff sometimes. I don't know, you kind of do a lot of battling online, and you know, well, for aging, the spirit can be behind you sometimes, and sometimes you just need that extra oomph. Yes, I do.

Um Wi during a vision, you talked about the five churches in that first pitch. The very first church. There's two things in there. curious about. Um He asked that the church, the letter to that first church, he said, return to what you were doing.

prior, almost like the church lost its way. Do you know, I mean, I know it talks about love. But what was the thing that it that John asked the church to return to. I mean, is there some speculation? It's it's Probably a devotion to Christ because you lost your first love.

So that's what I'm thinking it is. I don't know if it really says anything other than that. Um it's it's the Church of Ephesus, which if uh The Johnsons are listening by God's grace. I've been to Ephesus twice. and uh really enjoyed walking through the streets.

So I would just say that it says recall. Where you were, return the lovelessness of where you're at.

So I think it has to do with just falling their first love, which is Jesus. I think that's what they need to do. Yeah, I kinda agree. I kind of feel it feels that way too. And the second question was.

He had a a dislike, just like the church had a dislike for the What? I want to know if this is an allegory, but is it a person, Nikolinius? Nikolaiotens, yeah. Yeah, what's the story with that? Because I think he referenced that in another church, too.

Is that a person or is that a reference to a.

Okay, it's a church. Yeah, it doesn't seem to really tell us. Ephesus hated their deeds, but there's not too much about them, except to say that the teaching of Balaam.

So I this has been asked me before and there just isn't a whole bunch on them. Yeah, I was leaning on to sort of the false profits, you know, the people trying to do. You know, not what the original teachings were, but they were going against some of that. Or it was trying to pervert it somewhat. Yeah, it seems to be along those lines.

That's true. Along those lines. That's what it seems to be. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I don't know if you had something zeroed in on that or not, but okay.

Yeah, that's what I would say off the top of my head, because I I have had to look at that before and I remember looking and reading and I just don't know what the exactly what it was, but the ill illusion, the referencing of Balaam seems to give us a hint, just as you said, promoting the false prophets and things like that.

So it seems to be. Yeah.

Yep. All right. Thank you, Matt. Thank you very much. All right, brother.

God bless.

Okay.

Right now, boss.

Okay.

All right. Now, during a break, before we get to these callers, I went through my HTML file. Hypertext markup language, which is what websites are written in. And I tried to update my count because of articles I've got to do, and I was wrong. Um I was wrong.

not a thousand eighty something. It's it's eleven hundred and fourteen.

Okay.

Oh man. I better stop looking. They keep increasing. All right, let's get to Janice from Virginia. Janice, welcome.

You are on the air. Thank you. Um my one of my questions is Has the church replaced Israel? Yes and no. In some respects, yes, in other respects, no.

It has replaced Israel in what Israel was called to do: the promotion of the Messiah to come. It failed to do that.

So we've replaced Israel that way. We've not replaced Israel covenantally. In Romans 11, 25, 26, it talks about God not being done yet with Israel.

So Uh in one sense yes, in another sense no.

Okay.

So where does that kind of um plates us as far as the support of Israel as a nation. What we should do is support Israel covenantally. As Christians, we should have an attitude of support because it's God's people.

Now, sometimes what Christians will want to do is say, well, I don't like what Israel is doing, I'm not going to support them.

Okay.

But think about this. God's people in ancient Israel were the Jews. Nations came against them even though Israel was wrong and God judged them for it. God calls Israel to repentance and then punishes the nations for Disciplining by God's hand Israel. The funny thing is, Israel is full of failures in history, full of political and moral failures.

and God always maintained His faithfulness to them. The same should be with the Christians.

So do we have to agree with everything Israel does? Of course not. You know, if I'm almost 70, I'll never get drafted. But let's just say they were so desperate they drafted someone like me. He said, We want you to go fight Russia.

I'd say, Give me a gun. Fight Ethiopia. It's a give me a gun. You're going to fight Israel. I said, I'm not doing that.

And that is it. One country won't go against. They're God's people. Even though they are in the wrong in some areas, they're still God's people. I'm not messing with them.

Okay.

Okay, so it's not, I mean, because I think I really struggle with that. I never felt that we replaced Israel But I just didn't Um I I hear so much of that now and I'm like, why do people think that? And I just feel like I can't get away from just as we continually read through the word, like Israel's always there. And so I'm like, okay, but wha what do you do with when you're like, what it you know, what they're doing Like presently I'm concerned about that.

So I guess I'd like I don't know if I can distinguish well. I can support Israel, the people group. But not the Government in that A way of looking at it, or is that like That's a way of looking at it. I would just. My recommendation is.

Don't turn your back on Israel. If you disagree with something they're doing, pray for their repentance. and that God would work through them. is I've studied covenant theology. what God does with His covenant people.

He disciplines them, and the covenant people are never perfect. It's easy for us to sit back and judge Israel. and say they've done this wrong and they've done that wrong. and there'd be a lot of truth to it. But They're God's people.

You know, it's like a parent with his child. Parent knows the child is doing wrong. And we might be able to criticize from a distance.

Well, a child technically has done this wrong. That's true. But as soon as you start attacking that child, it's a different, the gloves come off.

So be careful. And remember Israel. And when the time of the Gentiles is ended, all of Israel will be saved. And my opinion, this is just at this point, just now my opinion. That I suspect what will happen is when the time of the Gentiles has ended, God's going to bless Israel with a revival, and they're going to preach the gospel all over the world.

That's what I lean towards.

Okay.

So as far as So would that be like a reformed theology? Is that what, when you talk about covenant theology, is that the same thing or no? No, it's just biblical. It's just biblical theology. It's all it is.

It is biblical. Because, you know, I'm quoting the verses. It's what it says. And so let me go to the Bible here, and I've got all these verses in my head.

So let's go to, for example, Romans 11, okay? Yeah.

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, so that you will not be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, just as it is written, the deliverer will come in the design, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay? Yeah.

So we respectfully say, Well, Lord, I'm praying for Israel. And if you don't agree with everything it's doing, Say that. But be careful. It's got people.

Okay.

All right. That that clarifies A lot. What about the land? the land situation. Is that the land?

It's theirs. It is their land. Like from what God talked about back in Genesis, from. Yep, maturity circuit. Do you think that they're supposed I mean, is that something that they're supposed to be trying to get now?

Or is that just something God's going to give him in the future? No, it's it's now and the future.

Okay.

Okay, so but would Justify things that they're doing? It depends on what it is. If they're trying to. It it depends what it is. Look, when the Six-Day War came in and the Muslims It builds in the peace.

Oh yeah, peace. Piece of your arm, piece of your leg. uh came in and tried to destroy Israel. Israel won land.

Okay, they got it fair and square in battle. Do you think if the Muslims had won land that they'd give it back? Of course not. See, the problem is the news media is against the Jews a great deal. And it sympathizes with the Muslims.

You hear stuff about Muslims complaining that bacon is sold in a grocery store, so don't sell it anymore.

Okay, let's make them happy. But if the Jews are the ones that are being spoken of, forget it. We're not going to help them. There's a brainwashing that's going on.

So just be careful. Bow the knee to God and remember God's people, the covenant people is Israel. He's not done with them yet.

So I say to people, just be careful. Just be careful what you say and rebuke about God's people.

Okay.

Okay.

All right. Well, thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate it.

Okay.

Alright, well sounds good.

Okay.

Thanks again. I really enjoy your show. I've learned a lot.

Well, praise God for that. Praise God. I think they were like, Oh, I'm sorry. I thought she was done. And we only have one minute.

Sorry about that. I'm going to get to Nelson really fast from California. We have one minute. Nelson, what do you got, buddy?

Okay, Matt.

So let me take a little different approach here. In Second Thessalonians chapter two, verse fifteen, that word tradition, my friend, Catholic friend of mine, says he wants to hold that as well. He's confused.

So can you explain that and expound on that, please?

Well, the word is just para doces, and it just means tradition. That's all it is. But the context of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 is the return of Christ.

So hold to the traditions that were taught by the apostles in the return of Christ. The Catholics are going to want to say tradition is equal to scripture, their sacred tradition. Ask him if he's got an infallible list of sacred traditions, what verifies a tradition as being biblical. Also, go to 2 Thessalonians 2. I'm going quickly because we're out of time.

Go to 2 Thessalonians 2 and read the first few verses, and you'll see that the Thessalonians fell into apostasy on a certain doctrine. They heard it straight from Paul's mouth, and they got it wrong. How can you trust tradition if the people who were the Thessalonians got it wrong when he was right there telling them, and 2,000 years later, the Catholic Church is going to get tradition right? It's still word of mouth. It doesn't make any sense.

Okay.

Call back tomorrow. We can talk a lot about traditional cannalism.

Okay? All right, brother. Hey folks, sorry about that. We're out of time. May the Lord bless you.

And by His grace, we're back on there tomorrow. The Lord willing. We'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, one. God bless.

Yeah.

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