This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. And we're just grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. And to learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. Hi. How do we know if you're raising a sin concealer versus a sin confessor?
Are you modeling confession? Is it okay to say, Lord, have mercy? on me, a sinner. How do we understand that we're supposed to forgive? as we've been forgiven.
You know, we want to have karma. We want to have like you reap what you sow in many ways, but we have a God who's stepped into reality and stepped into our world. and said, no, you're forgiven. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.
And I'm Ann Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life today.
So we've got David Eaton in the studio today. David is a teenage expert. Not really. Wow. He's an expert on raising teenagers because you started a ministry called Axis.
You communicate with 200,000 parents and teenagers a month about. No, we equip 200,000 parents who have 400,000 tweens and teens in their life. And we help them have non-anxious, Christ-centered conversations about culture and about TikTok and about fashion trends and about Jesus and about technology and we want Jesus to be at the center of a family.
So that's what Axis is all about. I hope every parent listening just leaned forward and I need this program. I knew they did. I was like, they're all like ready. How do I get this?
How do I get this? Access.org. Yeah, axis.axis, not A-C-C-E-S-S.
So A-X-I-S.or-G and go there and check out the culture translator. It comes out every Friday. It says, here are three things going on in your kids' world. And it is awesome. Oh, I get it.
And every time I have no idea what you're talking about when I start reading it, I'm like, I don't have teenagers in the home anymore. But it's like, we need to be on top of this, understanding culture, especially if you're parents of preteens or teenagers. You want to be able to talk their language and understand what's going on and start conversations. But one of the reasons I brought this up really early, you said you have like three, what, trick questions you have? I am hijacking this radio show right now.
All right, let's see. It's like, enough interviewing me. I'm interviewing you now.
So the tables have turned. This has never happened. Watch out. Game on. I guarantee my wife will be able to answer all three of these.
No, I will not. And I won't be able to answer any of them.
Okay, well, there's three trick questions, and there's scenarios, they're situations.
So bear with me.
So the first one is: you are looking for something. In your 17-year-old's room. Because clearly he took something of yours, and maybe you lost it, and you're just like looking. You're an innocent, awesome Parent looking.
So you're looking, and you can't find it.
So you're like, I'll look in his closet. Maybe it's in his closet.
So you open up the closet, you see, oh, there's a box down there.
So you're like, maybe it's in the box.
So you pick up the box, you open the box. And as you look inside the box, you find a half consumed bottle of whiskey, What do you do, Wilsons? I say, and you might want to have a conversation with our sons about this. No, I mean, honestly, here's my answer. I'm not saying it's the right answer.
I'd I'd love to know what Ann would do, but I would go to Ann. And we'd go, Hey, look what I found. Let's sit down with whoever's son's room it was. All three of our sons were in the same room, so it could better any one of the three. I'd probably choose the oldest one first and say, you know, is this yours?
And, you know, can we talk? I mean, we did find uh porn on our home computer. When our oldest was 13, and that's exactly what we did. We sat down, and first, Ann said, Is it you? And I said, No, it's not me.
And then we had a conversation, and he admitted it was him. And it led to a really good conversation that is ongoing, you know?
Well, actually, so anyway, that's what I would do. I have two questions about that. First of all, I was asking another question. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, it's on.
It is on. You thought this was safe. How would you feel when you opened the box for the first time? And you see those things down there. Oh, I would have just a pit in my stomach.
Especially if you were. Non-suspecting. Like if you had no idea and you find that, I would cry, honestly. My first thought was, same thing, I would take it to Dave. If he wasn't home at that time, I'd probably, and I did this many, many times, I'd get on my knees.
I'd tell Jesus everything I'm feeling. I'm afraid, Lord, what's happening? I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. What should I do?
James 1 says that he will give us wisdom and generously. And I would pray, like, Lord, we need wisdom. These are scenarios that we actually did.
So I'm laughing because I thought you were going to say what you did when one of our sons came home drunk. She kicked him out of bed, said, You're going to do the front yard right now. And she's yelled at him in the front yard, like, who do you think you are? David, this wasn't a good moment. This wasn't a good moment.
It wasn't a good moment for me because it had happened before. And this time, I mean, he came home reeking of alcohol. And so he's like, I just need to go to bed. It was prom night. And so.
I reacted instead of responded. I didn't pray. I didn't do anything. I'm like, get out of bed because you are working today. And so, yeah, I was not calm or cool by any.
Did you do a good job on the art? Was it nice and level? It was super sad thinking back about it. Like he was crying. This 18-year-old boy was crying the whole time.
I think sometimes as parents, we do, like, I had to apologize later. Probably wasn't the best way to respond in the moment. But I did say, like, I was so, I'm so afraid. I'm afraid. And my fear caused me to react.
So we had that conversation and then. I feel like God salvaged it because I remember saying to him, you're amazing. And I can see that God has so much for you. I can't wait to see all that he has for you. And I get scared because I think, oh, don't waste all that he has.
You know, so I said so many wrong things. I might have said a few good things, but as parents, we do. We make mistakes. And when we're in it, we don't always respond. God did redeem the moment and he's an amazing man and father.
And he hasn't made a mistake since. That's really great. Just like his dad.
So, and there's one final like clarifying question because everybody who's listening to this wants to know. You mentioned finding something on your computer. And You said you kind of teamed up. Talked about it. The conversation went really well.
So why did it go really well? What happened? Because that's not. Hey, you're hijacking the show. You really are.
I told you. This is not a surprise because I made it clear. I'm hijacking. I mean, when I look back, I can see us sitting there in the basement. Having this conversation because it's one of those parenting moments where you hope it will never happen, but you know it's.
could happen and here we are. I think we listened. We said, tell us your story. Tell us. What's going on?
Why? Did we find this? Wow. And he was very honest. But, Dave, I think the thing that really.
I feel like was so impactful is you started to cry. because you said this has been my struggle when I was younger. And man, I hate for you to have to experience what I've gone through. And so I think that was so impactful for you to relate: like, man, I've struggled with this too. And I think his response then was he cried too, and was basically saying, What do I do?
Yeah, and honestly, it wasn't tears of, oh, my kid messed up. It with tears of I Know This Battle. You are stepping into a war zone, dude. It's It's a hard journey. Uh I'll walk it with ya, but That was my tears.
Like, oh man. And that happened more than once in our home. Yeah. Lots of times, stuff like that. Anyway, back to the trick question.
Well, first of all, it's kind of just a metaphor, a parable, and for like, how would you react? How would you respond? How would you feel?
So thank you for giving us beautiful insights into your story. It's a real story. It happened to a friend of mine. But then I have a parent say, oh, you wouldn't believe what I found in my son's glove compartment. Or our plumber was in the house and he's fixing something in our kids' bathroom and found something behind the sink.
Here's the trick question or the aspect of this. One is that whatever is the box and what's inside the box can become an adversary between you and your kids. And then that is just really tough if you're not on the same team and you're like opposing each other. But the real punchline with the box, the real punchline is that what's inside the box, that cultural artifact, that marijuana, that self-harm, that cutting, that perfectionism, that personal shame, that will kill your body. What is inside the box will kill your body.
But The box? That's secrecy? Will kill your soul. It says I've got to hide this from my parents. I've got to hide this from God.
I've got to hide this from other people. Where are my fig leaves? I don't belong here. Like, I'm unworthy. Or, this is my secret special sin, as they say in AA, we're only as sick as our secrets.
And so and guess what? The box isn't just in the closet, it's in our pockets now. It's called smartphone. You're listening to Family Life Today. I'm Dave Wilson.
And before we continue our conversation, let me just say this. We meet a ton of couples who say family life helped them when they needed it the most. And that's what being a Family Life Partner is all about, helping others find that same encouragement and tools that you found right here. And we'd love for you to join us.
So click the donate button at familylifetoday.com and become a partner today. Second question. I'll frame this up as an awesome youth pastor failure because I was a youth pastor and I had an awesome youth pastor failure. There's a family, they invited me over to their house because I was supposed. to mediate.
First problem between a mom. and her teenage daughter. And her teenage son. Here I am, Axis. I wrote the book, Engaging Your Teen's World, have the culture translator.
And so I was like, I can help.
So I go over and try to help with smartphones. It was a total failure. They wouldn't even look at each other. Mad tears down this young lady's face. Mad, mad.
Not sad tears, mad tears. Why was she mad? You don't understand my mom. And is from a divorced family.
So, what ended up over the smartphone fight is that this young lady got two smartphones. One for her mom's house and one for her dad's house.
So that now her parents can effectively show who's the better parent is. And so she's effectively triangulated them. The mom would take the smartphone away. and wouldn't say What the kid could do to get it back, or when they were getting it back. And if they asked, she held on to it longer.
So there were some challenges, right? As we all have challenges, it's hard. Smartphone is hard. But as I was walking down the steps of this house, there were some nice flowers I remember to my right: stone steps, gravel driveway, a little circle in front of the house to get in my car. The young lady said to me, A phrase I will never forget.
And this is my second question for you, David Ann. She says, David, she said, the stricter the parent, the sneakier the teenager. My question to you: true or false? I would say that's true if there's no relationship going on with the kids. Meaning.
If it's all about rules and regulations and towing the line. then the teenager would become sneaky. What do you think? I think it's true.
So, when you say relationship, what do you mean relationship? Of course, there's a relationship there. What kind of relationship? Tell me more, Anne. If the kids feel loved, Encouraged to talk, to share their heart, to share their mind, to share their opinion, to share their fears with their parents.
That's what I mean by relationship, that the door is open for communication. I feel like that's one of the things I did poorly at times as a mom of a teenager. I became so fearful of what they were doing. That I wasn't as concerned about their heart. And this is from our kids telling us now as adults.
My one said, Mom, you are more concerned about my actions. Than why I was doing the things that I was doing. Like, you weren't concerned about me, you were concerned about what I was doing. Yeah, more concerned about behavior than my heart. Yeah.
Is that sort of what this daughter was getting at? Yes. I mean, when I heard the statement, it feels like it was a paradox. Because it's like, of course that's true, the stricter you are. The more one tries to control, the other one will try to control back, and it's a control fight.
So control begets control. But then it felt deep down like it was like some type of. Illusion. Or like a magic trick or like a sleight of hand. Like, no, that's not true because of some type of relationship thing.
So if you could unpack bad strict versus good strict, Dave, that'd be helpful. And then I'll share what I believe is a potential answer, not to the strict, but to the actual Paradox. You know, we wrote a book on parenting and we tried to get a little bit into that. Idea that rules are good, strict is fine. You've got to lay down boundaries for your kids when they're toddlers and when they're teenagers.
It isn't like the greatest parents are the most permissive and there's no rules. In fact, as you interview teens, they want rules. They really do. I had one 14-year-old say, My mom and dad have never given me one rule in my life and I feel like they don't love me. Wow.
Which was really interesting for a 14-year-old to say. Yeah, so I guess I'm going at the idea that, yes, you lay down rules, but it has to be in the context of a loving relationship where they're feeling heard. They can push back on those rules. Let's have a conversation. And they feel like mom and dad really will have a conversation.
It may still end up, the rules not. Getting pushed at all, but I feel heard and seen. Again, I'm not saying that's perfect because those can be really messy and ugly. But the key, I think, is if the rule is a good rule, then keep it, but make sure your teen understands it, is able to push back on it. Has an opinion about it.
And you hear that. And sometimes when you hear it, you go, okay, I'm going to adjust it a little bit. Rule still here. I mean, one of our sons said to us, because we had a conversation at the dinner table, I think we've shared this here before, but, and said, hey, tell us some things that you don't like about our parenting. This was when they were teenagers.
Maybe some rules that you guys think is dumb. Like, that's a dumb rules. Which, by the way, is a great conversation to have at your dinner table or wherever. Ask your kids this. A lot of parents are like, I don't want to know.
No, you do. You should know. And one of our sons said, I think it's stupid that when you guys are gone, I can't have a girlfriend over here. You know, well, tell us why you think that's stupid.
Well, I'm mature enough. And at the end of the day, we're like, you know what? That's not a stupid rule. You're not going to have a girlfriend over here.
Well, we kind of explained our side of it. Here's why. Here's what we're thinking. He also said, I think it's dumb that you guys give me this bedtime. Like, I'm in high school now.
I should be able to determine. You know, and it wasn't that we had a strict bedtime, but what I would say, like, man, you should get to bed. He's like, I can figure that out. And I said, You're right. Yeah.
So we we let that one go. It's like You know, but I think at the end of the day, he would say, I felt hurt. Even though they kept the one rule, they still let me push back.
So, is that what you're saying? Yeah, you're building that trust, right?
So. This young lady says this to me, strict to the parent, sneaky to the teenager. I agreed and disagreed simultaneously. And then I realized this is a great question to ask.
So I'd ask it to my friends. And then it really brought some great vulnerability from that. And so at a dinner party, or every now and then, I'd talk to somebody. I was trying to figure it out. I was like, where's the answer?
And so a grandfather actually solved the riddle. And do you know how he solved it? He solved it by answering my question with a question. He says, Are you raising a sin concealer? Or are you raising a sin confessor?
So, one, I just want to say thank you to the people at Family Life because the person who brought that up to me was Bob LePine. Really? It was his answer.
So, Family Life has been very good to access, so thank you. Even to have me out today is such an honor for me and the team. But, yeah, that idea of sin concealer versus sin confessor is the heart of the gospel. And how we deal with forgiveness. Like you said, Anne, you asked for forgiveness from your kid for overreacting before.
And so, how do we know if you're raising a sin concealer versus a sin confessor? Are you modeling confession? Is it okay to say, Lord, have mercy? on me, a sinner. How do we understand that we're supposed to forgive as we've been forgiven.
Forgiveness is still hard for me. It it doesn't fit the math, the calculus of reality. We want to have karma. We want to have like you reap what you sow in many ways, but we have a God who's stepped into reality and stepped into our world. And said, no, you're forgiven.
And it's important, don't you think, to confess your sin to your kids. I mean The sin that you've hurt them. You know, I disciplined you this way. It was hard. Whatever it is, it's a healthy conversation to say, I'm sorry.
It's actually a really, it requires wisdom that we should ask from God, and He will generously give. We do not doubt on how to confess and who to confess to and what to say. And even the question of like, how much do I tell my kids about my past? Yeah. And when?
Well, they need to hear because there's a reason where you said. Trust me. Nothing good's going to happen at our house after 9 o'clock at night when we're not there with you girlfriend or 10 o'clock or 11 or whatever. It's just and so, well, why?
Well, you're just not going to do it right now, or I'm going to tell you later, or we're going to go out for coffee and we're going to figure this out.
Okay, so here's the deal: sin concealing versus sin confessing. I knew Bob LePine would end up back in the studio.
Sounds like a pastor's sermon. Yeah, that'll preach, right? Right there.
Well, I have preached literally, I can see it in my sermon notes: conceal equals death. Reveal equals life. You know, I was obviously talking about our relationship with God as if we all conceal, we all hide, we all have fig leaves, and it always leads to death. Because if you're playing something in the dark, the dark's going to win. But if you bring it to the light, which is the scariest thing ever to tell your spouse or a teenager to tell your parents or a parent to even confess something to their teenage son or daughter that they've done wrong.
Is scary, but it always leads, the light always leads to life, right?
So tell me how. How do you raise a sin confessor? How have you done it? Have you done it right? Have you done it wrong?
Well, you're the guy who wrote the book on understanding teens. You must have an answer. I just like to lob these really amazing philosophical conundrums wrapped in enigmas. I mean, my only thought, and Anne's sitting right here, so she can say it's a lie or it's true, is. Modeling in front of our kids what it looks like.
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. To confess. And our kids have not been perfect, and we have not been perfect. There are many times that they have hidden their sin. We have hidden our sin.
But there's a beauty of being able to confess it. And we were big confessors of saying, you guys, we messed up. And so I think that modeling. Is probably the thing that we're doing. All right, so I wanna, I wanna actually hear this.
So you mess up, and then it takes a full like week for you to come around, or it's just like 30 minutes later, you're just like, I messed up. Like what what did you say for me Uh often weeks.
Okay. I mean, and there were probably times where it was pretty immediate, but a lot of times it's like I concealed that sin. secret for a while. You know, it's like, I'm going to beat this on my own, whether it's a struggle with a phone or you name it. And then it's like, no, I'm not winning this thing, I need help.
So, Ann's one of the first partners that knows the truth. And then, my guys I'm doing life with. That's the other thing I think my sons, and we just had three sons. They saw dad in relationship with men that were his accountability partners and soldiers beside me.
So, that's a modeling as well.
So, they knew I was saying that to these guys, and that hopefully helped them to say, This is how a man lives: you don't conceal, you reveal. I will say again, this is something that will make you address your own shame. Mm. And access is going to help you with social media and smartphones and video games and all that other stuff. Like all of those are kind of artifacts that are out there, constellations of issues that are out there.
But oftentimes it comes back as Do I believe what God says about who I am? And How am I dealing my personal shame? Because if you're parenting out a shame, That's a hard parent to be parented by.
So, again, it is modeling. And I think Especially if you like blow it with your kid to come back to them. And And to say, I'm sorry. And this is something we do with our kids, and it's just like, I hope they remember this, and I hope this just becomes part of their vocabulary. I'm sorry I was wrong, we forgive me.
Those are three things. And sometimes it's very heartfelt. And then I'll hear my kids say it back to us, and they'll be like, I'm sorry, I was wrong, we forgive me. Or I'm just sorry, we forgive me. Or I was wrong, we forgive me.
All three of those. components are really important. to really own it. uh and realize it and then to invite them and honestly to say that you don't have to forgive me. And it may take time.
Yeah, like I'm okay with the time on this because this is one of those things that it just doesn't always solve itself. All right, so you got a third question? You said there were three. I do. This is a doozy.
So the third question is. And this is the number one question we get asked. Is at what age should I get my kid a smartphone? You know what? We're out of time.
Huh? Gonna have to save this one for tomorrow. Yep, stay tuned. We'll answer that tomorrow.
Okay. Man, I think this is just such good stuff with David Eaton today. I mean, every parrot is eating this up. I mean, this guy understands your teenager's world. In fact, that's his book that you want to get.
It's called Engaging Your Teens World, Understanding What Today's Youth Are Thinking, Doing, and Watching. And you can get it right now at familylifetoday.com. Just click on the link in the show notes. And we'll have David back with us tomorrow. Man, if this stuff is hitting home with you, we get it because parenting and raising kids.
It's really, really hard. And I think sometimes we just have questions. We have more questions than answers actually. I know I do.
So we pulled together some of our most helpful parenting pieces into one spot. And actually, you can get that content right now. Here's how you do it. Go to familylife.com/slash parenting help. Did you hear me?
Go to familylife.com slash parenting help and you will find some of the best stuff we've ever done on parenting. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
