I think if you're going to walk it, walk it for the Lord, right? And so, you can try to shelter yourself and your kids, but we know that doesn't work. And so, I would just say, like, okay, like I'm going to surrender that, Lord, and I'm already walking through hard and messy. Let me do it for you. That's Cynthia Yanoff, and she's with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, talking about how to see God's goodness in the messiness of life.
Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller. John, here's a reality check: life is messy, right? Man, it starts when you get married. It's got that kind of messiness.
Then you have children, and then you got more messy. And that's a messy that rarely gets fully decluttered, organized. Yeah, resolution doesn't have to.
So you ride that for a few years, and of course, there's also the messiness of doing things in community for your church, et cetera. Foster care, which Gene and I did, you and Dana did as well. You adopted, we adopted. Yeah.
So that's you know the next level of commitment, right? But today we want to talk to our Guest about what it means to set your mindset toward the messiness of life and living within it and bringing God shalom to that chaos. And Cynthia Yanoff understands messiness. She's a mom of three. Her youngest was adopted out of foster care.
And Cynthia is an author and podcast host. And we're going to be talking about one of her books called "Life Is Messy, God Is Good: Sanity for the Chaos of Everyday Life." You'll want to get a copy. This book. Click the links in the show notes, Cynthia. Welcome to Focus.
Good to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. All right.
So messy. Yeah.
There's two ways to look at that. Yeah.
Sometimes it gets overwhelming, especially with kids, young kids, and I guess, attitudinally, for moms that we're talking with now. I know there's dads there as well, but for those moms that just always wake up feeling overwhelmed before they ever get to the to the list. How do you how do you just say okay? This is the phase we're in. Let's just relax and move through it.
Right. I think for me, if I can find purpose in it, that's helpful.
So realize that I'm not just going to sit and linger in the mess. And I'm a girl who grew up in church, and I'm so thankful for that. But I mean, I grew up in church. Like, was there every single second growing up? And somewhere along the way, nobody said this, but I just decided that like God was in the stuff that's serious and on script and goes as That you can talk about.
He's organized, right? And all the other stuff we're going to sweep under the rug, and that's not the God stuff.
Well, it turns out that ninety percent of my life has been the stuff that you would probably say is off script and not the God stuff. And so I kind of had to reconcile that. Like, is God in the mess? And if He is, then there's got to be purpose within that. And how can God take that mess and make a greater message out of it?
I tell the story sometimes. It's in the beginning of my book, but some friends and I decided we were going to go. This healthy eating class, and it was at a local church based on a Lisa Turkhurst book.
So we decided we're we're headed to this class, and we jokingly I'm just gonna say we called it Fat Camp. And so we went to this, and about three weeks in, I was running a little late, and I get in there and I sit down, and I see my cute friend over there, and she's writing in her "I Can Do All Things Through Christ" journal, and listening to the leader, and I see something on her scarf. I'm like, "What is that?" And then I realized, and I didn't like, kind of laugh, like I started inappropriately laughing, like you do, like sometimes in a funeral, an accident, like that. Oh my gosh! And unbeknownst to her, on her scarf was lodged a rogue French fry.
In fact, on her scarf, on her scarf, in fat camp, and I'm like, "What is going on?" And we're just die. I'm dying, and my friend's like, "What are you doing?" And so, I told her, and we laughed about it. And I bring this up because I think that's kind of how it goes in parenting, and really just in life. Like, you have the best laid plans, but we have French fries, metaphorically speaking, stuck in our scarf. And sometimes you can see them, and sometimes you can't.
But just like driving through a drive-through on your way to fat camp, is probably going to thwart those plans. Just stuff that's messy, and we just have to find God in it. She escaped a In-N-Out Burger, didn't she? Oh, totally, totally, yes, yes. Hey, let me ask you this idea of how you turn a mess into a bless, if I could rhyme it that way.
But how does a messy situation potentially have a blessing? Yeah, well, I mean, you hand it over to the Lord. You you trust that He's going to do something with it. And I know that sounds a little cliche, but we have to, at some point, hold things loosely and just say, like, Lord, okay, like you're the author and creator of all things. And if you're not surprised by this, then I'm not going to be surprised by this, and I'm going to stand down.
And I think so many things that I've done as a mom for so many years. It seems so urgent, and we get so caught up in the mess and the urgency of stuff. And I just wonder if we could step back a tiny bit and say, "It may feel urgent, but is it eternal?" And I think if we can kind of adjust the lens a little bit on it, it changes how we look at things, and we can offer it up and be like, "Okay, Lord, like this wasn't on script, but I'm giving it to you." And He's faithful, and He will use it. You're describing kind of a personality temperament to a degree. Yeah, somebody who can absorb crazy.
And try to say, okay, Lord, there's something eternal to this that doesn't come easily to everybody. You might think of a type A person, you know, that just, you know, we're trying to get through life in an orderly way. The way you described earlier, this is what I learned in church and in school, and this is how life goes. A lot simpler is when you have a list and you work the list. And so, speak.
The question I'm getting at is, speak to that person who is struggling with relax and take. And stride, and just know that there are bigger purposes. This is a mohill, not a mountain. Kind of language you don't know that this could be a mountain. Don't you know what Junior's doing, Cynthia?
They all feel like mountains. Like, listen, I've died on a lot of hills that were actually nothing, but I think my mom maybe gave the best parenting advice for me in that. She said, if you're going to laugh about it in a year, laugh about it now.
Well, that's good. And and that was kind of laughter was a currency in our house growing up. And so I really think if we can look at that. Like, is this going to be critical in a year? Is this going to be critical in ten years?
If I want my kids to look like X, Y, and Z at twenty-five, like I want my kids, I want my kids to love the Lord. I want my kids to be compassionate. I want them to care about the marginalized.
Okay, does today's crisis is that really going to impact that? And what am I doing to get them there at twenty-five? Let's focus on those things. And the fact that we missed a bedtime and the room's messy, and you know they won't eat a vegetable, like some of that stuff. I mean.
Does it matter? Yeah, but does it? Does it matter? I mean, so let some of that, some of that go. But I would just say, if you're gonna laugh at it later, laugh about it now.
Try to that. You know, take it lightly. Yeah, you created rules for playgrounds, so and for parents particularly, the rules of the playground.
So what are these parental rules for the playground?
Okay, well these are just things that have helped me. If you're gonna anchor yourself in parenting, here's a few anchors that I've learned, and I just want to let everybody know this. Like I have three kids, and I have one that's 22. I have one that's 18.
So think right out of college, going to law school, one just starting college. Embrace yourself. I have a third grader, and so I I say this, and the women that are listening will laugh at this, but I'm I'm balancing math facts and menopause, and that's not God's best for anybody.
So I have a long list of things that I would do differently now that I have young children, a young child again, and so it's kind of the playground. And so I'll just share with you. I was. Literally at a playground one day, I was watching all these really great moms, and they were playing with their kids and running up and down the slides and all that. I mean, I was sitting on a bench like scrolling Instagram.
You know, I'm I'm old now, and I and so I'm trying to be engaged. But I realized a few things that I think we can anchor. And here's the first one: there's room for everyone on the playground. There's nobody that's guarding the gate. That's like, hey, before you come into the playground, I just need to know, like, are you gonna breastfeed or bottle feed?
And hey, is it private school or public school for you? Like, there's Of that, there's a place for everyone. If we're going to be salt and light, then we need to include other people that may not look like us, vote like us, parent like us, and that's okay. And so that's my first rule at parenting. Is I would say this: like, there's room for everyone.
That is good. That's rule number one. We don't have to go through them all. You guys pick. Yeah, there's one of them.
Yes, plenty of room. The second one was don't sweat. Don't sweat the slide etiquette. There's more than one way to get the slide etiquette. Yeah, like there was a little boy that was going up the slide and.
Instead of going up the stairs, and this mom was like pulling him down and trying to get him to do it the right way, and I appreciate the respectfulness there, but let's not die on hills we don't have to die on. And in this culture, there's different. Everyone thinks the way to get to the top with your kids is you have to like have the right grades, and you have to be the captain of the team, and you need to all the things you have to do. That make you the best and make you successful, and I'm just saying. Listen, God created each of our kids individually and uniquely.
There is more than one way to the top for them, and we're not going to define success how the world does. Culture defines success by things that are measurable, but don't you want your kids? I do. I want them to be known for things that are not measurable. I want them to be known for things like I took myself off a text thread because it was unkind, and I sat by that kid in the cafeteria.
And so I would just say this: if We're going to define success. Define it how God defines it, not how the world defines it. That's really good. And there's more than one way to the.
Now I would ask though, if the kid's going up the slide, is there somebody coming down the slide? It might make some sense to say that could create a big accident. Hey, you know what?
Now I'm being too practical. Lessons learned the hard way, people. Man, you get taken out once by the kid coming down, and you don't do it again. No, I love it. I do appreciate the respectfulness factor, but yeah, yeah.
Number three, I mean, it's okay to play. Alone, yeah. Let's go there. Let's talk about that. Like, if we are going to raise kids in today's culture for the Lord, they're going to have to stand alone, right?
And so I think about a picture I saw on social media one time. You know, the y'all know this all too well. The meet at the flagpole beginning of the year. Sure, you can take your Bible and pray. And I saw this picture of a boy that was standing there alone, and he had his Bible, and you could see all behind him tons and tons of kids walking around, only one.
And I thought, how do I raise that kid? You raise that kid because. You value them standing alone, and if we're going to have kids that stand alone, we have to let them. And I mean that means that we don't run down to the school and say, "Hey, they didn't get in the class with their friends," and we don't run and yell at the select coach because they didn't make the team, and we don't call the mom who didn't invite our kid to the party. Like, if you are going to value that, and if we want kids that can stand alone, we have to let them.
Yeah, that's good. That's so good. Fourth one, and the last one was don't throw wood chips.
Now, I like that one. I kind of like throwing wood chips. I do too. Elementary school. That's how I honed my quarterback skills.
Yeah, at an early age. Right. That's how. I mean, you separate the men from the boys if you can see if they can throw a wood chip. But at that playground, the same thing.
Some kid was throwing wood chips, and the teacher mom. I love the teacher mom who just takes on everybody's kids, and she's like, "Stop throwing wood chips." And I thought, like, we need to be doing that as parents, as moms, especially. We're still throwing wood chips, and it would hurt less if someone would actually hurl one at me, an actual wood chip, rather than the way we talk about. Decisions our kids make behind each other's backs, and we kind of side eye the you know the play date, and we're like, "Ooh, I wouldn't have let that come out of our mouth." I mean, we do throw wood chips, and I would just say, like, we shouldn't be weighing in on walks that we haven't been on. If we haven't walked that road, we probably don't need to weigh in on it.
So let's pray for them. Let's find ways to encourage each other. But parenting's hard, so let's do it well. That's so true. You know, challenges in in our lives, even as adults, we can see as something to avoid.
Void yet challenges seem to be key to our growing and learning and doing better.
So I think it was your son Brett's reading club that taught you maybe and him challenges are a good thing. What happened? Right. Well, he was in kindergarten. I got a call from the kindergarten teacher saying, "Hey, we're putting Brett in the reading club.
He's a little behind. He's struggling a little bit. Basically, we're just going to pull him out and get him a little extra help." That is a reasonable conversation that a teacher could have with a parent, but not me. She hung up and. I was like, "Well, this is the beginning of the end.
He can't read, so he's never going to make it through this school, and he'll never graduate from high school. Probably not be able to get a job. And so, I guess at this point, we just make him comfortable. Like I went to this ridiculous extreme, right? Right?
Like this is the end of it for this kid. And so I went to pick him up, and I'm not kidding. I wish I were. I'm tears in my eyes. I'm like, 'How do I tell him?' In kindergarten, it's the end of the road because you're in the reading club.
And so he gets in the car, and he's so excited. He's like, 'Best day ever! I I got the reading club of all the kids.'" In the class, they picked me, and I'm like, and he said, but my teacher told me, and he went through how the teacher explained it, and all I could think was, thank goodness she got to him before I got to him, right? But here's the thing: it was the beginning of some learning differences we figured out, and some hard struggles that he had. But I will also say now, he's in college, he can read everyone, so you know, every take a deep breath, we're good.
But he did have a hard road, yeah. And I prayed and prayed and prayed and begged the Lord to take that away from him.
Now, coach after coach, teacher after teacher is like this is the hardest working kid I've ever had. He is kind. He is empathetic. Not because of anything I did, but in the struggle, it's made him the man that he is becoming now. And the thing that's a little scary is that I would have done anything.
I tried to pray that out of him, and the Lord was using that to make him into who he will be and what he'll do for the Lord. And so I would just say, in the midst of the struggle, like, be careful. Be careful. Trying to pray that out of your kids. Instead, if I could do it differently, which I try to with this one, my little one has learning differences.
Pray audacious prayers. Pray that whatever the Lord does in their lives, it will be for His glory. Because at the end of the day, I want it for my glory a lot, or their glory.
So, what impact have you seen this whole way of absorbing a bit of chaos? How does that? What kind of impact does that make on your kids when you're? Willing to enter into that messy part of life and and help them. Yeah, you know, I would say one of the messiest parts of life we entered into was foster care, and the Lord kind of called us down that road.
And and I remember, I think you'll appreciate this. I remember when the Lord kept laying foster care in our heart. I'm like, I think that's for Lord, like that's for really religious people, like that maybe like are really good people. Yeah, like missionaries. Are they playing the handbell choir?
Like those people. Not like we let our kids play select sports on Sunday sometimes. And so like, I don't think you mean us. And the Lord's like, no. And so we got involved in it, and and I worried to your point about.
Like how is this messiness? What's this going to do to our kids, our bio kids? And I will just say this: I went into foster care scared on every level that you could be scared. I was scared emotionally, spiritually, financially. I was scared on every level.
And I will tell you now: we came out on the other side scared of who we would be if we hadn't done it. Wow! Because you are changed people on the other side of doing the things God calls you to do, and they are messy, and they are unplanned, and they are unorthodox, typically. But you are different people on the other side, and for. Our family, my children, especially my bio kids, they're different because they stood next to a crib with us, and we literally cried night after night and begged God to do something merciful for this little boy, or it would not end well.
We went the parts of town that, frankly, I had been avoiding with my kids. We went into stories, entered into stories by sitting in CPS rooms with kids with everything they own in a trash bag, waiting on parents that may or may not show up. And I'm just saying, your kids are different on the other side of that, for the better. I remember someone asked me at some point. I mean, we we had him, we loved him, we thought he was ours, and then he might go home, and it was just a hard time.
And someone said, "Would you do it again?" And I said, "I don't know. I mean, I'm just going to be honest. It's really hard. It is messy." And my son, at that time, maybe sixth or seventh grade, he goes, "Well, mom, just because it's hard and messy doesn't mean it's not right." And I think there's just some right. There's some truth in that.
We we're called to do messy and hard things, and I will just say, yours may not be foster care, but whatever it is. You're different on the other side of following the things God calls your family to do, and your children will be changed because of it, and and in hard ways, but in all the best ways. And I'm just so grateful for that. You know, Cynthia, you're hitting on some great spots that we've tried to address. We've got something like the suitcase bundle for foster care.
I think we've given away over fifty thousand suitcases, Bibles, and teddy bears with a handwritten note to each child. I mean, fifty thousand's a big number. There's about four hundred. Thousand kids in foster care—that's a big dent. But we want to keep going.
So, you know, if people want to get involved with that program, get in touch with us. It's a great way to get your kids involved with it too, and be a part of it. You can actually set up an assembly at your church or something like that.
So, get in touch with us and get some details. But everything that brings dignity to the foster care environment—you and I both did foster. You adopted. Did you do foster? We did not do foster.
Yeah, it's got its challenges. We did it for probably about eight to ten years. And you know it—it is messy. When you look at the chaos in the world, I mean that's foster care is where there's the greatest amount of human. Chaos that exists, yeah.
Because these parents typically are not in a place to do well. That's why the state's taking the kids out of the home, and it's a beautiful place for the Christian community to show up and be there. There's probably no greater mission field than right there.
So, but it costs you. It does. It costs you comfort, yeah. Which is probably worth the reward that you described a moment ago. And it's just biblical.
You know, care for the orphan. I people be like, well, how do you? There's always that. Yeah, right. How do you know?
I'm like, well, I don't know. I don't think you have to read between the lines. It's in the Bible. Care for the orphans.
So here we are. Yeah.
So you had a friend Darren that you mentioned in the book. What was that situation, and how did he get comfortable in messy? Yeah.
So Darren Kinder is a good friend of ours. He lives in Dallas, and he's been a Secret Service agent for most of his career. And he was in New York City on 9/11, and he tells a story. Um, actually, just wrote a book. Um, amazing guy.
Bury me in a, in a dirty suit. But he. Was just a block over when the first plane hit the North Tower, and they, the Secret Service guys, were all together. Picture them in a room in their suits, waiting for where they were going to be assigned. And and they felt everything shake.
And so he tells the story of how he ran and got some like first aid stuff. He didn't know what it was, but he knew probably wasn't good. And went out the streets, and he was able to go in the North Tower and help evacuate people. And he got out. Same thing, South Tower was able to get back out.
And the towers collapsed. And he spent the rest of the day. Just like learning to use the fire truck because the firemen were not there any longer, and so putting out ancillary fires.
So, figure at the end of the day, he gets called back like Secret Services reconvening in this area. He is black with suit. His suit is ripped. His shoes are melted to his feet. That's how hot it is.
Bleeding, and he walks in the room where Secret Services to meet again. And he looks, and there's a bunch of the guys still sitting there in the same suits like they were that morning, and they see. Him and they're like, "Oh my gosh, where have you been?" And he says. Where have you been? And his whole testimony is like, listen, I don't want to go to heaven with a clean suit.
Wow, that is powerful. And so he said, you know, I'm going to figure out where I can get messy, where I can step in and do what I'm called to do. Isn't that kind of where we want to be? Like, don't go to heaven with a clean suit. Figure it out, man.
Where can you get dirty today? Where can you step in? Where can you be unqualified and step in and make a difference and and care about what's eternal, Cynthia? That is so. Powerful and what a great reminder!
But you know, comfort is a big draw. Gosh, being at peace—I do too. I mean, it's nice to have thermostats and hot showers and calmness and a TV. You can watch football and all those wonderful things. And yet, is that what the Lord's really called us to—a clean suit?
I mean, no. But how do we, if you're in that spot, how do you get messy? How do you really open yourself up to pain and disappointment and challenges and all the tough stuff that life can bring you? How do you manage that? I mean, really.
I mean, you're already in it. Like, there's no way to avoid the the suffering, the pain, the hard. Like, we're all walking it in some form or fashion. I think if you're gonna walk it, walk it for the Lord, right? And so, um, you can try to shelter yourself and your kids, but we know that doesn't work.
And so, I would just say, like, okay, like I'm gonna surrender that, Lord, and I'm already walking through hard and messy. Let me do it for you. You just listen to us talk about foster care. Maybe that's not by coincidence. Maybe the Lord's saying, like, hey, step into that.
Maybe the Lord's saying, like, you have. Financial resources, and you're thinking that's that's uncomfortable. I want to go on a great vacation. I was hoping to go to Europe next year. Like, there's some places where it's going to be messy and uncomfortable, and I think the Lord makes that obvious.
And so, I would just say, I think it's Jenny Allen that says every day she prays the Lord, "What is it you want me to know, and what do you want me to do with it?" I think that's a great prayer today. Like, Lord, I just listen to this, and maybe the challenge is for me to get messy, to get my suit dirty. What do you want me to know, and what do you want me to do with that? And And he's faithful, you know, Cynthia.
So often we can look at the challenge and go, "Wow, it's big," and so we can allow the the bigger opportunity to overwhelm our our immediate actions. How do we just think of the one or think of the two people that we can touch, rather than being overwhelmed to apathy? Thinking of hundreds or thousands, how do we say, "All right, hon, let's pray and consider helping one." Right, right. I mean, doesn't it kind of go back to who's my neighbor? Like when Jesus was asked the greatest commandment, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength.
Love your neighbor as yourself." Who's my neighbor? And and we get the Good Samaritan story out of that, right? And you have all these different perspectives in the Good Samaritan. You have the robber, right, who is going to take advantage of someone, and then you have the Levite, the priest, that kind of. I'm gonna avoid that, but then you have the good Samaritan.
Comically enough, that the Samaritan's the hero in the story to the Jewish audience, right? But that's the thing: is what's the perspective? Where where are we willing to stop and say, this looks like an inconvenience to me. This looks like something I could take advantage of. No, like this is an opportunity to serve and my neighbor.
Those are the people right around me, and so I would just say, like, don't overthink it. If you, I can walk out the doors, focus on the family today, and I can find a need in five minutes. Meet it. Like we're not going to be able to. I may not be able to solve the.
Hunger issue in Africa, but I can I can solve it in my path today if I see a need. And it's funny, I stopped at the gas station one time, and these people asked me for for some help. They were hungry, and I was like, I don't have any money. And they were like, Well, could you go in the gas station and get us some food? And in my mind, I was on a way to a big event.
I was speaking at. I'm like, I'm gonna be late. I'm I'm the keynote speaker. I mean, I'm just embarrassed to admit that. But that's where we were.
And so I go in, and the whole time, like, are they trying to get me away from my car? They're gonna rob me. Do they want my kidney? I'm going through everything that could be wrong with the scenario, so I gave him the food kind of begrudgingly. I was like, I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta get on this platform, and and I feel like the Lord spoke into that on the way and said, you know, I care about the pump almost more than I care about the platform, and I think you know, there I was at the gas pump, and I'm worried about these big, huge moments, and I'm going to impact however many people, and He's like, hey, what about that one right there?
And I would just say, maybe, maybe that's the responses. Listen, you're not going to solve world hunger. Maybe you are. I hope you are, but you're probably not going to solve it. But you can solve it for someone today.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, step into it. Yeah.
And again, I think the church is at this crossroads. I think many leaders that I talk to, we feel this way, and people in the congregation feel this way. You're looking at all the mess of the culture and where things are at. There's really only one solution: that's to become active and get engaged, help people, and through that help, you actually open their hearts up to the possibility of Jesus. And what you believe, because you've touched them, and that's what changes a life.
Yeah.
And then we do that one at a time. One at a time. And hopefully thousands of us doing that one at a time means thousands, tens of thousands, millions changing their belief system. Yeah.
I mean, our brand is love as Christians. That's our brand. And so if Subways Eat Fresh and BMWs the ultimate driving experience, like as Christians, our brand is love. And and I'll just you know tell you this quickly that I went to law school year. Ago and that's where I met my husband.
And the first class I took was contracts, and they had one exam at the end, and that was your whole grade. And so I I was a good student, and so I went to class and I did all the things. I got ready for this exam, and I sat down and I read it. I'm like, got it. Scribbled it out front and back, turned it in, nailed it.
Well, the grades came out and they were posted anonymously. It was graded anonymously too. And I look at my little number and it says F. And I'm like, I mean, I laughed out loud. I mean, I was like, I'm a good student.
I did not get an F in contracts. Look again, showing F. It was still an F, you guys. And so I went to the professor and he couldn't believe it either. Graded anonymously.
He said, "You went to class. You did all the things." And he said, "But when you read the question, you read it wrong." He's like, "You answered a question we weren't asking." Oh no. And he's like, "I don't know if it makes you feel better." If that's what we asked, you gave an A answer, and I was like, "No, I don't feel better. It's still an F." But here's the thing: I I take from that like we're in a culture that's asking questions every day. They're asking questions about our faith.
They're asking questions about their own identity. They're asking questions if God can love them, and if we are answering with anything but love, we've answered the wrong question. You think about this, you know. Think of the scribes and the rest. I mean, they were.
Buttoned down. They knew what they had to do. They probably had their list ready. They seem to me to be kind of type A guys, right? And this is what they're going to do.
And the these are the six hundred and some odd laws we got to follow, and we'll follow them very diligently. But where was God? And God showed up with Mary Magdalene, the prostitute. And God showed up with the woman caught in adultery. And God showed up with the woman at the well.
And the stories go on. Yeah, He seems to go where the mess is.
So if we want that kind. A deep relationship with the Lord. We should probably think about Lord, what mess could you put me in today that I could show your peace to those in that mess? That's a that's a great prayer, I think. I think so.
And if it's a challenging one though, because He's going to say, "What about at the pump?" Cynthia, forget the speaking engagement. What about the the hungry people at the pump? Right. Wow, what a great story! Or don't go to heaven with your suit clean.
I love that. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for having this went by fast. It does. It's really good stuff.
So, if you want to get your copy of this great book that Cynthia's put together, life is messy. God is good. What a great mental approach to life in general, especially when you have young kids at home or. You're engaged in foster care, whatever it might be, whatever that messes that's driving you crazy. It's not going to go away, so let's adjust our attitude.
And Cynthia can help you, and we'll get you this book for a gift of any amount. Just make it five or ten dollars. We'll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. Yeah.
So donate today. Request a copy of Cynthia's book. Our number is eight hundred. The letter A and the word family. Eight hundred two three two six four five nine.
Or stop by the show notes and click the links right there. And if Cynthia's mention of Darren Kinder sparked your interest. You can hear his remarkable story as a Secret Service agent during 9/11 when you follow the link in the show notes. And on behalf of the team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
