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Now let's jump in. In his essence, God is unseeable. But that doesn't mean he's unknowable, and it doesn't mean he's unapproachable. Let's figure out how to approach God today on the theory today. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today studio here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
Dr. Shah, it's going to be a good show. It'll be a great show, and we're going to see God. That's what everybody has been asking for. That just, I want to see God.
You know, it's funny, bikes.
Someone just heard that, and they're like, What? Like he's a guest on the show? You know, it's funny because we think that, and we and we even say stuff like that in times of like distress, or it would be like, it would be really great if he would just appear and just tell me what to do. Just light a bush on fire. And I promise you, I would do it.
If he treated me like Moses or like John, where he just appeared and told me what to do, Lord, I would do it.
Well, the Bible gives us two different things about this issue. On one hand, John 1:18 tells us no one has seen God at any time. But on the other hand, Exodus 33, 11 tells us that the Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend. Oh.
Now, how in the world do you reconcile those? Yeah, that's not just God speaking to Moses. That's pretty explicit language about there being some sort of visual interaction, face-to-face. I mean, we can see each other. Yeah, not only did they meet once, they spoke as friends.
They had an intimate, connective relationship. Right.
Well, two points come out of this. The first one is this. God in His essence. his inmost personality is unseeable. God in his essence, his inmost personality, is unseeable.
Is unseeable.
Now, we're going to look at some scriptures here because. The Bible is our guide. Before we run to philosophy or some theology books, let's begin with Scripture. And as long as those theology books are based upon the Word of God, I'm fine with it. As long as those philosophy books are coming from Scripture, great.
But if not, we're going to stick to scripture.
So here are some references. First one is 1 Timothy 1, verse 17, where Paul says.
Now to the King Eternal immortal, invisible. To God, who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. But what I want to focus on is how he describes God. He is invisible.
Again in 1 Timothy chapter 6, 16. Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
So it's not even that no man's ever seen him. You can't see him. You cannot see him.
So you can see me. Right? Mm-hmm. Yes and no. Hmm.
Do you mean like fun? Yeah, hold on, because you did have some schmutz. I was gonna say, even just for the episode, you got some schmutz. Oh, wait, that's my that's my glasses.
Well, think about going to a funeral. You know, we went to a friend's father's funeral, went to the visitation.
Well The body wasn't there, but there was a cremation. There was the urn that was there. How many times have you walked up to a casket and looked at the person and had to convince yourself? Yes, that is really him or her. It is no way like a living, breathing person.
It does not even look like the same person. There is a disconnect. There's a huge disconnect, an emotional disconnect. I remember one time there with. You w you and I went to a funeral home together and You, I think you walked into another.
Oh, no, no, no, I had gotten there first, and I was waiting for you to arrive. And they said, Are you here to see Buddy or something? And I was like, yeah. and they led me to the wrong room. And they said Cool.
Dr. Shell will be here shortly. We'll go over all the details. They left. I was just in a room.
with this corpse that I did not know and turned out to be the wrong person. Right.
But I've never in my life felt Air that was heavier. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It felt wrong. Yeah.
Because it was not the, you know, because the person is not there. Right.
Yeah. Right.
The body is there. And I'm not saying the body is not the person, but you need both the spirit and the body to make up that person. You need both the material and the immaterial to make up that person. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:1. for we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
So, when Jesus returns, my body will be raised from the grave and will be transformed. But. Listen to 2 Corinthians 5:2. For in this we groan earnestly, desiring to be clothed with our habitation, which is from heaven. Again, it is not just another habitation, it's a much better one.
Okay, so who are you? Who am I? I am a person.
Someone who knows Someone who feels, someone who wills, you can put this body in a science lab. But I challenge you to put me in a science lab. It is impossible. Yeah, you can take my hand or my heart or my kidneys and examine it. But you really won't be getting me.
Yeah. There's something more to me than just this 10. That's deep, but anyone who has ever lost a loved one or even just attended a funeral or a service, you've experienced that. You know, when you're looking at that person, yes, that is their body. Yes, I can visually recognize these are the features that I recognize in that person, but it's not him.
It's not him. There's something missing. There's an immaterial. Yeah, there's an immaterial sense to every person that we take for granted until it's not there. Until it's not there.
And then you know, because it feels wrong. Right.
This feels weird. That's right.
So, so we need flesh and blood to exist, to interact, to communicate, and all the rest. God doesn't need flesh and blood, but that does not mean he doesn't exist.
Okay? He he does. In our inmost personality, we are unseeable by others. In our inmost personalities. We are unseeable.
Now, you can see me on the face. You can see my verbal and non-verbal cues. But in my inmost personality, you cannot really see me. That's true. Even your, like, even something as simple as your thoughts, you know, your thoughts, your ideas, your worldviews, I can't see those things.
I can hear about them from you and I can learn them over time, but I can't see them. Yeah, how? Yeah. It's not possible.
So, also, is God in his essence, his inmost personality is unseeable. Like a little boy was coming home from Sunday school and was taking his own sweet time. He scuffed his shoes into the grass. He found a caterpillar. He found a fluffy little milkweed pod.
And he blew at it all the all those fillers. A bird's nest on the tree overhead, you know, so wisely placed and high was just another wonder that caught his his His little eye. A neighbor watched his zigzag course and hailed him from the lawn. Asked him where he had been on that day and what was going on. Oh, I've been to Sunday school.
His response: I've been to Sunday school. And and You know He carefully turned the sod and found a snail underneath. And he said, I've learned a lot about God. And the neighbor said, that's a very fine way. For a boy to spend his time.
If you'll tell me where God is, I'll give you a brand new dime, says the neighbor. Quick as a flash. He responded. I'll give you a dollar, mister, if you tell me where God ain't. You see what I'm saying?
Yeah. So In a sense Yes, you cannot see him, and yet, in a sense, he is there.
So I agree with John 1:18. No one has seen God at any time. and yet God still has a form in which He shows Himself in the heavenly world And is seen. Talk to us a little bit about that form because I think, you know, most people who are listening to this, if you're a Christian, you agree that Jesus came, he was here physically. And maybe there's maybe there's a different form that you're referring to, but this is the most, I guess, I would venture to say this is the most obvious form that God took was the person of Jesus.
Right.
And we're going to come to that. But there's some other examples, again, coming from scripture, scripture, scripture. First one is at Jesus's baptism. We hear John 1:32, and John bore witness saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove. and he remained upon him.
Now, we picture a bird sort of, you know, flapping his wings and then perching on top of Jesus' shoulders. It was not a bird. It was descending from heaven like a dove. That helps with the manner in which it was descending, not the form. No, not the form.
It wasn't like a bird came down from heaven. Yeah. It was the spirit. It was a spirit, but the way he came down, I mean, what an. Awful moment, like AWE, awful moment to see the third person of the Godhead coming.
And In a sense, anointing the second person of the Godhead for what he was about to now embark upon. But it saw a form. I mean, that's amazing to me. That is, that is incredible. Yeah, when you think about, I mean, the Holy Spirit of God, when you think about someone who, you know, identifiably is invisible, taking on a physical form that can be seen, something that's visible to people's eyes.
Yeah. That's that's incredible that God, God reveals Himself in ways that we can process and yet still is an invisible God. And I think people even make that mistake. Like, I've seen the Holy Spirit so many times, like, just portrayed as a dove. And people say, well, then that he took the form of a dove.
It doesn't say that. It doesn't say that. No, it was not. Like, he, he, he. Picked a dove flying around and just said, Oh, now I'm going to use you to he possesses a dove or something.
No, no, no, no. This was. Just like a the way a dove would perch. The Holy Spirit, just this presence, and it was very real. And John saw.
Others saw and they knew. What is that? What is that happening? and the best way he could describe was was like like a a a bird coming You mentioned in the Old Testament too that there was a lot of times where God revealed himself like to Moses. I'm assuming it's not the same form or maybe something similar.
Something different. Because in Exodus 24, verse 9 through 11, this time to the leaders of Israel. It says then Moses went up. Also Aaron NADAB and about you. and seventy of the elders of Israel.
And they saw The God of Israel. Whoa, wait a minute. There it is. What? What?
I thought no one had ever seen God. I thought God was unseeable. And there was under his feet, as it were, a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. Wow. This is Exodus 24.
Mm-hmm. Sounds like revelation. Yeah. I mean, this is huge. But on the nobles of the children of Israel, he did not lay his hands.
So they saw God. And they ate and drank. They had dinner with him. Yeah. Wow.
That's insane. Seeing the invisible God. He's sitting there on a throne. I mean, there are some times like when you do radio where you feel like you just always got to keep talking, but then there's some times you read something like that and you just have to be. Like, wow, you just gotta be.
I didn't. Was that the Bible? Is that the Mormon book? I mean, what is this? What, where?
No, it's in your Bible. That's right.
It's in Exodus 24. The leaders of Israel seeing the God of Israel. Yeah. Means Moses saw God a number of times. More than once.
Yeah. Yeah, more than once. And they sat down and ate with him. I mean, isn't that what it says?
So they saw God and they ate and drank.
Well They had dinner with him. Yeah. That's crazy to me. That is. And then, of course, we know the Moses episode, where in Exodus 33.
And verse 18 it says, And he said, Please show me your glory. Then he said now this is Exodus thirty three, so that was about maybe you know, nine chapters after this this very interesting encounter with God. where he invites them for dinner. What do they eat? I don't know.
Yeah, that's a good question. But this time it's Moses himself. He said, please show me your glory. Then he said, I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you.
Now, this is God saying about God. Mm-hmm. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. But he said. You cannot see my face, for no man shall see me and live.
And the Lord said. Here is a place by me. and you shall stand on the rock.
So it shall be, while my glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with my hand while I pass by. Then I will take my hand away, and you will see my back. But my face? shall not be seen.
Now, how in the world does it say that there? But at the same time, earlier in Exodus thirty three eleven, so the Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend. How how is that? Possible. You know But but there's something that is happening there.
There's a spiritual truth beyond the apparent contradiction. Yeah. How do we understand that? That, you know, if there's a conversation that happens face to face, but in this instance, Moses can't look upon God, or God says he shouldn't look upon him, so God covers him and he's allowed to look at God from behind, from the back. A great illustration is, you know, we have these handheld mirrors that allow us to check our, you know, the back of our head to see, you know, okay, is any hair standing up or have I, you know, I need to comb back here a little bit better.
So if you ask me, have you seen the back of your head? No. Yes, I have. Yeah. That makes sense?
Yeah, you stand like you stand behind a mirror. You stand in front of a mirror and then have another mirror to look at the back of your head. Mm-hmm. So you've seen it. But you really haven't.
But I, but I can't see it. But yeah, I can't see it. I need something else to kind of help me see it. And I think that's what's happening here. Mm-hmm.
So it's but people say Bible has contradictions. No, y you are just you you j haven't been exposed to how properly study and understand and explain the Bible. It does make sense, doesn't it? Have you seen the back of your head? No.
But yes, but I have but no, I haven't. But you have. But I have. Yeah, same thing's happening here.
So, also with God, people some people have they have seen God, but they have not seen him seen him. Yeah, so yes, so in a sense, they did have a conversation face to face. But at the same time, no, he did not see God.
So, just the way that we can do this. Here, so also is happening here. But do you this may not really matter in the grand scheme of things, but do you think that when he comes down and he places Moses in the cleft of the rock, do you think this is God the Father? Do you think it's the Son? I believe it's more Jesus, the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead, because He is the one.
You know, John talks about that, and maybe we'll read that passage in a little bit. And no one has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, he has revealed himself. You know, the one who has proceeded from the Father, he's the one who has revealed himself to us.
So, when God reveals himself in the Old Testament, whether it's the angel of the Lord or through His Son, Jesus Christ.
Well, a great point for us to transition into because the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, that's another visible manifestation, you know.
So s so some people have seen God, his visible manifestation, but they have never seen God in his essence.
So he saw God's back, so he did not see his essence, but he did see the visible manifestation, where, like in a mirror, you look back and say, Oh, I can see the back of my head.
So, you think it's fair to say that when the Bible says no one has ever seen God, what it's saying is no one has ever seen the true essence of God. Right.
How can you? You won't survive. Isn't that what it says? Isn't that what God told Moses? Yeah.
No one can see my true essence and live. Yeah. Now, I know there may be someone out there who would say, oh, come on, you're playing verbal gymnastics.
Okay. Your choice.
Well, I think you said it best. We're following what scripture says. Right.
I mean, we can't talk about the nature of God without being firmly rooted in scripture. Otherwise, it's speculation. It's, you know, it's kind of significant. Pointless philosophy, we've got to have it rooted in the Bible. And the thing is, the people who wrote it, like Moses.
He wrote Exodus. Did he not see that there was an apparent contradiction between verse 11 and verse 18? Where verse 11 talks about talking to God as a friend, face to face, and then verse 18: No one can see God. I can put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you and remove my hand. You're going to see my back, but not my face.
Moses could not go away. I mean, I got to fix this thing right here. Oh man, I wrote that wrong there. Yeah, because what I'm saying in 11 doesn't match what I'm saying in verse 22. I imagine Moses going to somebody who's like, See, the Bible has contradictions, just like on the back of the head, like, don't you think I wrote this?
I know, I know what I meant. And that all of God's people throughout the ages could have easily resolved this. Yeah, they don't. Because they got it.
So when you come along in the 21st century and you say, oh, this doesn't, this is contradictions.
Okay. Don't you think they would have figured it out? Yeah. Yep. What if the contradiction is really in your mind because of the lack of understanding, not in them?
Right.
Because they would have resolved this very easily.
So also the angel of the Lord. You know, to Hagar in the wilderness, to Joshua, and then you find him again and again in the book of Judges, Abraham before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I mean, this is all the angel of the Lord. Mm-hmm. The visible manifestation of God, but in His deep essence you can see Him.
Especially referring to the second person of the Godhead, Jesus. Mm-hmm. Yeah Another very important verse you find in Isaiah 9, verse 6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called Wonderful. Counselor.
Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father. Did you know that the second person of the Godhead was also known as Everlasting Father? Yeah, that's very powerful. Yes. Yes.
In Philippians 2, verse 5: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God. Mm-hmm. He's got God's form. He's got human form, but he's also God's form. And those two, you know, I don't know how many Christians think this, but I'm sure there's tons of people who think, again, that there's contradiction there.
You can't be 100% this and 100% that. But we're dealing with a being that is, in a way, beyond our comprehension. Right.
And if those early believers, or even the Hebrews, or the people of Israel, or the Jewish people, they read it. Why didn't they like go, Oh my goodness, I'm embarrassed. That's in our word. We gotta fix this. All right, come on.
You know, Levi over there, go fix this. Why didn't they do that? Because they didn't think there wasn't a problem for them. It was a problem for them. And then in heaven, we hear this right here in Acts chapter 7, talking about Stephen.
The first martyr, he says, He, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Wait a minute. Jesus standing at the right hand of God? What do they look like? Yeah.
Wouldn't you want to know? What happens?
Well, not want to know. Yeah. What happens if we circle back to the beginning where it's like, you know, the invisibility of God, I get it. I get all these people, they saw Jesus. I want to see him.
I want that assurance. Dr. Sha, how do you address the people who are listening to this right now? Who just, even if they won't frame it this way, they just have a problem with God being invisible.
Well, if they, well, we will see the visible manifestation. The Old Testament believers saw that. The New Testament saw it. And personally, I mean, in the incarnation of Jesus, they saw that really personally. But you said, well.
Yeah, but why not now?
Well God has chosen not to. And one reason is that if God has to keep coming back and showing himself to you, then what happens to faith? It's a great point. That's a great way. Are you going to step up and believe?
What about them? How about those people?
Well, those people also had some other struggles. Even seeing Jesus face to face, touching him, they still didn't believe. Yeah. Right.
They still had to have faith. Yeah. So don't ever think that. Man, they had the advantage. I'm at disadvantage.
No. They saw him face to face and still rejected him. Yeah, they had what you're asking for and they still turned away from him. Right.
And Thomas is like, I have to touch it. Yeah, even one of the disciples. Even one of the disciples. I was about to say, like, imagine all.
Well, I mean, think about walking around with Jesus. Judas was right there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sure there were hundreds, if not thousands, of people who were fed by Jesus, who were there when he fed the 5,000, who were like, man, I just watched Jesus do incredible things.
But. I don't know. He wants me to follow him. I don't think I can do that. Yeah, Jesus even said, you know, blessed are you who see you who see me and believe.
Blessed are those who have not seen and so believe me. Yeah, believe. Yeah, he said that to Thomas. Yeah. Well, one thing we need to remember other than that other than the fate element For God to reveal Himself in His inner essence Would be annihilation.
I'm not talking about the doctrine of annihilationism, which is like. In the end times or in the eternal world, God will just annihilate the unbelievers. They're gone. We're not talking about that. Here annihilation in the sense of total destruction or complete obliteration.
of Anybody who comes in contact with God. You cannot survive. Jesus, God said that. Because when Moses said, Hey, I want to see your glory, he said, No one can see my glory and live. I mean, it goes back to asking for my inner essence.
Yeah, it goes back to our earlier conversation on holiness. You know, we just, if you're listening for the very first time today, we did a few episodes, maybe like three or four episodes back. We covered this topic of God's holiness. Yeah. You know, you can't stand in the presence of God's holiness.
That's right.
Yeah. Well, somebody may say, well, how about just the visible manifestation? Just, I'll take that. I don't need the inner essence, just invisible manifestation. I hear you.
But number one, faith, right? They still had to believe, and many didn't believe back then. That's right.
Having seen the visible manifestation, there is no guarantee that God were to show it to you that you would actually believe. You may end up worshiping something else.
So, God has chosen not to. We like to think that we're different. We love to think that we're different. Not me. I wouldn't do that.
Those of them might, but not me. Those silly Israelites, they had a A pillar of cloud and a fire, and they still worship a golden guy. I wouldn't. That would be enough for me. It's like, no, you.
People, our people. People, our people. If it took them 40 years, it would have taken you four minutes to a passion. Yeah. Well, and I mean, think about God's people throughout the years.
It usually just takes one generation flip to completely swing the opposite direction toward idolatry or toward disobedience to God. You've got one generation that sees God and his powerful miracles and taking them out of Egypt and out of slavery. And the next generation is being disobedient and not driving. Oh, yeah. If the modern Exodus, if the Exodus story took place in modern-day America, that first day where manna came on the ground and he said, you can't save none, yeah, we'd be done.
I mean, if Peter denied Jesus three times that night, ours would be probably like 30 times. Yeah. Yeah. Every hour on the hour. We'd be uncalled to stop.
We'd beat uncalled the guards over. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all hear that rooster crowing? No, I'm not worried about that right now.
Let me tell you why I don't know Jesus. Put him on social media with a big red arrow. Can I use the whip on him? Prove myself that I was not with him. Would that help you?
I mean, you know, we think we are so much better. That's right.
Oh, my. No, no, no, no. No. Just as sinful and unbelieving. That's right.
Dr. Shaw, the people who are listening to the show as we close out today, who desperately are clinging to that proof, I want to see, I want to see God. I want to see a visible manifestation. I want to see some sign of God in my day-to-day life. I feel like I'm asking and pleading and begging and trusting, but I'm not seeing what I want.
What advice would you give them? Faith, faith, faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. For he who comes to God must believe that he is, and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6.
It says, by faith. It's by faith. You have to believe. That God is. Is it wrong to desire to see God?
No, but you see Him. To retroof. You see him to the eyes of fate. And then to say, Yeah, that's great, but what if I really Now, then there's a problem in you at that point. You say, well, that's a cop-out.
Okay, you can believe what you want to. But we know what Scripture tells us. That We are to to believe. In spite of What we see. You know, Peter Tells us 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, but you are a chosen generation.
A royal priesthood, a holy nation, his own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You say, Where's the light? Where's the light? I don't see any light. I'll run right to it.
Just show it to me. Yeah, show me the light. I'll run to it. No. The light is real.
Mm. And the darkness was just as real. That's right.
When you received Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you left. That darkness, that evil. And now you're walking in the marvelous light. And yet, there are times that that darkness may come. Yes, there are times that That it feels like, man, I feel.
I'm back into the old world, but you're not. by faith you believe that God is with you, And he will override whatever negative or Unspiritual or unchrist-like struggle that you have from the Visible physical world. You don't have to live in that. Amen. Such a great encouragement for us as we end today's episode.
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