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Now let's jump in. How do I make an invisible God visible? That's the motto of our church, and today we're going to help you make that the mission of your Christian life. Let's answer that question together coming up right now on the Cleaves Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio. We're here with our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah. Dr. Shah, VBS Week, still going strong? It's going well. Going well.
God is here. That's right. And he's right now in this room. He's here right with us. Hold on.
Is he here? Oh, he's in that chair right there. No. No, he's not there. He is here.
Oh, he's here. He may be there. But God is here. During our VBS, has been going phenomenal. That's right.
Our theme, interestingly, is about getting to know God. That's right. And so each night, kids are learning something about God. Last night, they learned about that God. Is our safe place.
And man, what a deep lesson for all of us. Because we all sometimes feel like we're at that point of breaking, or this situation or this trial is going to. It's going to irrevocably just destroy us. And that is not true. That's right.
Irretrievably. And maybe you're at that point in your Christian life. Maybe you're going through something really terrible right now. Maybe you're at a point where you're thinking that my life is broken beyond repair. Guess what?
God sees you too, even if you can't see Him.
So we want to help make Him visible. And the best way to do that is for you to be able to connect directly with us. You can text in today, T-O-D-A-Y to 252-429-6069. And it's going to help us to connect with you, put you on our mailing list. We're going to send you a free gift and let you know everything that God is doing, not only in our ministry, but in your life as well.
I think that's been one of the most exciting things for me regarding VBS as the volunteers are going through, as people are doing games and crafts and all the different things that they're doing, is that kids are understanding more about a God that they can't immediately see the way that they see their friends. You know, the way that we see God, the way that we interact with God, the way that we think about God is different than I can see you, Dr. Shaw, or I can see John, or I can see Dave, or I can, you know, when we do get to meet them, I can talk to our listeners and viewers. The way that we see and interact with God is different. Yes, yes.
And talking about little children being able to see God, yes, they see Him through the eyes of faith, but they also see Him in us and how we interact, how we respond to them, how we carry ourselves. All of that gives them that tangible presence of God.
So in a sense, yes, we are making Christ visible But we're also Creating that atmosphere with the truth of God that they, through the eyes of faith, know that God is there. That's right. And that is awesome to see. One illustration I've seen used with kids, and I've used this with my sons too, is like, You know, how do you know the wind is there? You can't see the wind.
Can you see the wind? And they'll no, no. Did you come up with that illustration? No, I've seen it somewhere before. I think we did it.
It's in the book of John. Is it really? Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. It is.
I remember we did it. Fittingly, it is in the book of John. We did it one time in a VBS, and I remember doing it with my kids. But I was like, but look, there's the wind. And I'm like, no, that's a tree.
That's the tree. But Jesus came up with that illustration to Nicodemus. The wind blows. Would you have called me out if I'd been like, yeah, that's the created that? I would be like, very nicely, I would say, you know, hey, but I mean, Jesus.
Yeah, but Jesus, yeah, Jesus. Interestingly enough. But Dr. Shaw, even for little kids, they get that. Oh, okay.
Yeah, I see that the wind is there, but I see it because the tree's moving. I see what the wind is doing. Even so for adults, you know, we think that that's an illustration for little kids, but we often get discouraged because I can't immediately see God. Right, but you can see his. impact.
You can see when there are movements. And what are the movements? Let's say, in the context of the church, the movement is lives being transformed. The movements is seeing something that seems like, man, it is broken beyond repair, and then God. Bringing it together, you know, super gluing it together.
You can see it in lives that just they are gone over the edge, and God just gently brings them back.
So. That's where you see the presence of God. That's where you know that God is real. That's right. Yeah, I love that focus throughout VBS.
And we're talking about that here on the Clear View Today show: how we can see God, how we can see this invisible and yet very real, very, very present God that we worship. Dr. Shaw, if God is invisible, right? I can't look at him in this chair over here. How can I know that he's there?
So, we need to understand that God is spirit.
So, let's back up and talk about the invisibility of God. What that means is that God's total essence All of his spiritual being, his inmost personality, will never be able to be seen by us. Let me repeat that for the benefit of those who are listening, driving, and it's like, wait, wait, there's too many words there. God's total essence. all of his spiritual being His inmost personality will never be able to be seen by us yet.
God still has a form in which He shows Himself in the heavenly world heavenly world and is seen. Yet God still has a form. in which he shows himself in the heavenly world and is seen. I mean, this is a systematic theology definition. I've I've taken it from a couple of different texts and which are very reputable.
Maybe Wayne Grudem's text or maybe A Ed Strong or someone like that. But this is a very good definition. Yeah. When you said that God is spirit, what exactly, for the benefit of people who are listening, who, or I mean, even for my benefit too, you know, when we say spirit, a lot of times we think of like a ghost, or even my spirit could be my attitude. And I suspect that neither of those definitions quite encapsulate or the school spirit.
Or the school, yeah, the school spirit, my attitude, my pep. But I suspect that neither of those really encapsulates the spirit that is God. That's right. I mean, John says, John 4, 24, Jesus said, God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. And he said those words To the Samaritan woman.
I mean, this is a woman who had come. To draw water out of the well. She had come to this physical well. but didn't realize that she needed something deeper to quench her thirst. Jesus knowing The condition of her heart, and knowing that she would be coming there, and he orchestrated this situation, this circumstance that she would be there at the same time while he was there waiting for her.
He begins to give her a lesson in in knowing that It's not the water in the well that she needs, but it's a spiritual water that only he can provide. and immediately she goes to the visible. You Jews say that you need to worship in Jerusalem, and we worship him here, our father Jacob. This is. Mount Gerizim is where it should be.
So we have a problem with location. And that's what she was telling Jesus. And what Jesus replies is, no, location is not the problem. Yes, Jerusalem is the place because salvation is of the Jews, but location is not the problem. The problem is.
You cannot see him you cannot know him Unless you get to know me first, Jesus first. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth. The Samaritans did not have the truth. Yeah. The Jewish people did have the truth.
But the Samaritans didn't. And he was telling her spirit and truth.
So, truth is what helps bring the spiritual world. Into sight. Yeah, I think, especially for anybody who's listening, who's new to the show, you know, these past couple of days we've been talking about the holiness of God and this problem of our sin. And I think about the Samaritan woman and how we sort of fit that mold too, where we have this void inside of us and we're looking to visible, tangible things to try to fill that void. Even if it's, I want to stop sinning, I don't want to sin anymore, I'm going to check out a new podcast or a new book or a new Bible study or a new preacher.
And never check out Jesus.
Well, the great point he made there is that she was trying to fill her void. She was trying to reach some kind of a. a peace, some kind of a fulfillment. And she did that in the context of love. And Jesus saw through that and he says, you know, you've had five husbands, and the one you're with right now is not your husband either.
Can't do that. Can't do that. So she she and this was not because she was a widow or she was you know, just the husband's just left her or she was divorced. No, this was a situation where she was searching for something in these men that it never truly satisfied her. And the one that she was with was not her husband either.
Now, how interestingly the way Jesus is speaking these words, because in a sense, He was calling her to love him. You know, it's it's a very interesting point here because They are At a well.
Now Lot of people in the Old Testament met their significant other at the well. Jacob met Rachel at the well. Moses met Zipporah at the well, is the well is like the meeting place. And so he is meeting her there. and telling her that you you're trying to find some kind of a deep fulfillment At this well, not realizing that I'm the only one who can fulfill you.
And Not in a Like a sexual way, but this is the deep desire of your heart. You see, how and that's where he discusses the whole idea of spirit. And that's exactly how God works with us. He meets us in the tangible. in the circumstances of life, in the pain of life, in the in in the mistakes of life in Our own hang-ups.
He meets us there and then he sh tells us that he is the only one who can truly. Satisfy. He's the only one who can truly meet our deepest needs. And and from that point on, it doesn't mean that she went and left the guy she was with, maybe they got married, I don't know. Then we can have proper relationships once we have.
Him in our lives.
So beautiful. Once the relationship with Christ is right, you can have proper relationships with a significant other, with friends, with family. Those relationships get ordered when the primary relationship is in the right place. I think it's so profound that what you said, God meets us in the tangible and then reveals to us the intangible or reveals to us the invisible. There have been so many times in my life where it wasn't in the.
Plentiful, bountiful, amazing situations where I was like really profoundly aware of who God was and his provision for myself or my family. It was in the moments of lack or the moments of suffering or the moments of hurting. Where my my attention, my focus was turned to to God. And so also for the listener who's listening to this, Dr. Shah, maybe, not even maybe, I'm 100% confident there are people who are trying to reconnect with God, get to know him better.
And maybe God is using. The tangible in their life, the circumstances, whatever's going wrong in your life right now, that big thing that you're struggling with. Dr. How can we make that connection and say, Okay, God, I see you're trying to tell me something. I'm ready to listen.
Well, this kind of a discussion from the Word of God is going to help you because it's going to make that invisible Christ visible.
So listen to this. Listen to this truth. Go back and follow up and read John chapter 4, or read John chapter 3, where Jesus talks about. The wind And then John chapter 4, when he talks about the water. See, all these are tangible things, but in all of these, he is drawing their attention to the spirit.
That's right. You know, talking to Nicodemus about the wind, he was talking about the spirit world about himself. talking to the Samaritan woman about the well, The water He was talking about himself. He is the one who will satisfy. When you begin to read and study these things, And truly allow the Holy Spirit to open your eyes, you will understand.
I think that's a great place to begin. Absolutely. And I think this is such a great bridge between this, the topic we've been covering, God's holiness, and today, because we've got this separation between us and God, and the person of Jesus stands in the gap, right? That's right. And so, do you want to talk to?
I mean, again, we, we. Primarily broadcast to a majority Christian audience. But for that one person who may be asking a good question, who says, you know, I've never really given Jesus a chance. Yeah. Maybe now's a great time to kind of.
Explain to them how Jesus filled that gap to make the invisible God visible. Absolutely. You know, just because we say God is invisible, don't think of him being less than ourselves. Because that's, I think, is often The error, the miscommunication that happens, and God is spirit.
Okay, so he is less than us. Like we are we have all this. I can pick up this cup I can adjust this microphone. I can fix my iPad and find my right place in the notes. But God is spirit, so he doesn't have these abilities.
Right. He just floats. If that. If that. If that.
When we say that God is spirit, it does not mean that he's less than ourselves or that he does not have what we have. Yeah. I think that that's that ghost line of thinking is that a spirit or a ghost is something that's lacking a physical form or a physical body. Things just pass right through them. But that's not the kind of spirit that we mean.
Yeah. I mean, of course the Bible says for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see, I have. He might be invisible, but he is very real. More real and more desirable than our flesh and blood, his essence is much more excellent than ours.
So we have to through the word of God enter into a realm That is beyond us. Can you talk a little bit about Clearview Church? You know, if you've never listened to the show, Clearview Church is our church. It's the church that Dr. Shah has been pastoring for almost 30 years now.
And our motto is making Christ visible and has been since. What was the year that that became our motto? It was 2008. What drove that? Like, did you imagine that one day, 30-something years from now, we'll be doing a radio show on this?
What drove us to making Christ visible?
Well, to be very honest, it was Nicole's dad who was a pastor, missionary. He had a master's in theology, more than just an M Div. He was headed towards a PhD, but God called him to do more. you know, you know, uh hands-on pastoral work and and not get into academia. But when he Planted The church.
This this was his last ministry. Didn't realize that in a matter of a couple of years he would pass away. But in 1995, he was called to pass to to plant a church. in an area where he had been for many years. This is in Warner Robbins, Georgia.
This is near Warner Robbins, Georgia, in a place called Perry. This is when a lot of the Air Force bases were being closed, and many of those. People and subcontractors and equipment and planes and you name it. Everything was being moved there.
So that place just boomed. The population just grew astronomically and still is growing. and he was called to plant a church there. I mean, he did. He he said, I'm gonna I'm going to plant this from the ground up.
I'm not going to take anything from anywhere. I'm going to build this church the way I've always wanted to do. And he came up with the model. Which was making the invisible Christ visible.
So he had that invisible Christ visible in his motto. And he came up with that because he understood. what we're talking about here. The people need to see Jesus. But how can you see someone who is not Visible with the earthly eyes.
But he's seen through the word of God? And he is seen to the people of God.
So. 2008. Fast forward.
Now I am pastoring in Henderson, North Carolina for almost nine years. And our church has sold its old building, which was Kind of suffering, and we were not growing where we were, and we felt like it's time for us to move somewhere else.
So we. made that change and we were like we launched out. In faith Knowing that God will take care of us, or this is going to be it. And we began to examine our core values, and we began to craft out a vision and a mission. And in that process, we said we also going we're going are going to change the name.
not because we're embarrassed of our old name. Tabernacle but because we're giving ourselves a new identity At a new place in our church's history.
So we're always going to be tabernacled, but. Here we are. And clear view. Clear view.
So that was great. We said, that's it, that's the one. And what will be our motto? Our mission is to lead all peoples into a life-changing, ever-growing relationship with Christ. That's the motto.
Mm-hmm. That's our mission. What is our motto? Is that simple, small, succinct? Three word A four word, a five word.
statement. And came to me clear view means we're talking about being able to see plainly and clearly. Oh wait. The only thing we want people to see clearly and plainly is not me. It's not.
My education? It's not my experience. It's not my tenure here. The main thing we want people to see Is Jesus Christ? You know, I feel like that, even though I've been here for 13 years.
I sort of ashamed to say it, but I'm also kind of, kind of, I think it's really cool. It really, really clicked for me in Job. When we did our series in Job, we did it in the sermon series, and we also did it here. And we also wrote a play about it. But it was really interesting to me.
Not interesting, but it opened my eyes when we Kind of got to the part in, I think it was like Job 19. Where he's Pretty much reveals that his goal is never to get all his money back. His goal is never to get all his wealth and all his land. He says, In my flesh, I shall see God. And I remember when you hit that really hard, you brought it into almost every single sermon and every radio show that we did.
It finally just kind of something slid open and locked into place in my mind. And that was the goal all along to see God. Right. And somehow making Christ visible became so much more real and so much more beautiful to me. Yeah, it makes it so much more profound.
And not only are we able to see it, but we help others around us see Christ, see who He is. I mean, you said that God is revealed in the Word of God and in the people of God. I mean, think about what a privilege and a responsibility that is to others around us. We can either make. Christ more or less clearly visible to the watching world.
Why do you think you're watching a show or listening to a show called Clear View Today? It's because today, right now, in the day that you're living in, you are facing things that blur your vision. You know, we picked this name not just because, oh, that's our church and it's a daily show. Yeah, it works. No, it's because what we want to do is to give you what God is giving to us, which is a clear, sharp, detailed, in-focus view of who God is.
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, we talk about that making Christ visible You cannot have one or the other in the sense of either the word of God or the people of God. It has to be both.
So, if you say, hey, we're going to make Christ visible in how we act and how we help people and how we treat people. Ah, just one one sided. Not enough. We're just going to preach the word, man. We're going to let the word of God just create.
This picture in the people's minds that they will see Christ, not enough. But when both of those things come together, the truth of God. and the people of God.
Now you'll be able to make Christ visible. You know, when we talk about the Making invisible Christ visible. Again, as I mentioned earlier, don't think that being invisible means being less than us. Remember, out of his own spirit being, he made our material being. He's just of of the other.
He's just the other. A spirit refers to the incorporeal Bodiless, invisible reality. Incorporeal means not the same kind of materialist, a material being that we are, but it goes beyond that. A. W.
Tozer would say, Faith is seeing the invisible but not the nonexistent. I love that. Yeah. As we close Dr. Shudd, there's a because we got maybe like six minutes left.
There's a poem that you read. I think it was from St. Patrick. Do you want to read that poem? Because I think this is the prayer of all of us, right?
Is that when people, and this is something that I think we a lot of times don't even know to pray, that when people look at me, yeah, they should see Christ. I almost never, I almost never have that thought.
Well, and the Bible talks about that, you know, I have to become less so that he can become greater. And you know, we want people to see Christ in us. There are songs written like that, but what does that truly mean? What does that truly look like for people to look at us and not see us, but to see Jesus? Yeah, absolutely.
It's referred to as St. Patrick's breastplate prayer for protection. And I'm not sure if Patrick of Ireland actually wrote this or not, or maybe somebody else wrote it. And I don't think it's just about Protection. I think it's much more than that.
But in this poem, he begins by saying, I arise today. through a mighty strength the invocation of the Trinity. Through belief in the threeness. to the confession of the oneness of the creator of creation. For time's sake, I'm gonna sorta go down here to the last part of this Pawn?
He says Christ with me. Christ before me. Christ behind me, Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me Christ on my right, Christ on my left. Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down. Christ when I arise, Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me, Christ in the mouth of every one who speaks of me, Christ in every eye that sees me, Christ in every ear that hears me.
I mean, this man. if if he did write this, which I believe he did, He he understood. the attribute that we're talking about today. Christ is very real. When we say that he is invisible, it does not mean that he is not real.
And hopefully, in the following episode, we can explore this more. What does that mean? Because, on one hand, John 1:18 says, no one has seen God at any time. But then Exodus 33, 11 says, So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend.
So how do we reconcile these two ideas? This idea that at some point people have seen him. Have seen him. Yeah. Yeah.
That's right. Of course, in his incarnation, people did see him. Right. But we're not referring to that, We're referring to There's this pre-incarnation period where people saw him. Saw his face.
Yeah. How? Yeah, I feel like maybe we can tackle that on tomorrow's episode. But, Dr. Chun, the couple minutes that we have left with our audience, I've got a big meeting today.
I've got a stressful confrontation I've got to have. I've got something on my plate I'm dreading doing, but I want to take this episode with me. What's something I can do in the next 24 hours to help make Christ visible in my life? I would encourage you to pray, especially for those of you who are facing. Insurmountable, overwhelming, just Uh just situations There are too difficult to even put in words.
You're struggling. You're you're you're We just don't know how you gonna come out of this. And you feel like no one can re understand, no one Can you can even explain to them how do you explain this to them? And I want you to know that God understands. He knows how you feel.
He knows the weight, the burden that is upon you? It may overwhelm you, but it doesn't overwhelm him. Ask him very simply ask him, say, God help me. And it may may not be immediate, but it will God does answer. He's right there with you to lift that burden, to lift.
That struggle? And and he He wants to come to your aid. I can help lift that burden, but so much. If it's a physical burden, I can help you pick up that that box. Or roll that You know, that boulder away.
You know, I can help you best I can. If it's a spiritual burden, I can pray with you. But God Himself. when you call upon him. He can do all those and much more.
So call upon him. Pray. It's a simple prayer. It's to Jesus, help me. Help me with this thing that I can't even put in words.
And yet it seems like it's suffocating me. It s feels seems seems like it's just overwhelming me. And I feel like I cannot seem to fight it off. It cannot cannot seem to. Overpower this.
But I know you are more than powerful. You understand me better than I know myself. You know That the enemy is doing whatever he can to to to just Just burn me down, to bury me. and and God I'm reaching out to you. And I Please answer me.
and by faith. I believe that you're already answering. And I can already breathe. I can already feel the light. I can see the light, and I'm coming out of this bog.
I'm coming out of this cave, I'm coming out of this grave. And God, thank you. Thank you for your light. Thank you for your peace. Thank you for your strength.
Thank you for your presence with me. And God Be with me from here on. Amen. Wow. If you prayed that prayer today, we want to pray that alongside you.
Write in and let us know where you're praying from. We count it a privilege to pray alongside you as you seek to obey God and to make Him visible in the world around you. What a great privilege and a responsibility for us as believers to make Christ visible to those that we need. That's right. We want to hear your story.
If that was you today, or if maybe God is working, you've been saved for years and years and years, but God is doing something new in your life through this show, this specific episode. Write in and text us: 252-429-6069. If it's your first time ever texting us, go ahead and just text the word today, T-O-D-A-Y. And after that, you'll be able to text us as much as you want. You can text us stories that God is working together for good in your life, questions for Dr.
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