Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome to this show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. As usual, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do on this lovely day, let's see, today's day is May 15th, 2026.

So, if you want to call me, I'm here waiting for you. We have nobody waiting right now. Nice Friday. The number is 877207. Two, two, seven, six.

You can call me at that number. You can also send an email to info at Carm.org info at CARM.org. And you can put in the subject line: radio comment or radio question. We can get to you. Not a big deal.

And if you're a new listener, you're not sure what the show's about. I'm a Christian apologist. What that means is a defend the Christian faith. And I've been doing it for Like about 46 years now, I guess. And I want to hear if you have any.

So, if you have questions about theology or the Bible or morality or aliens or whatever it is might be that kind of interest you or bug you. Give me a call, we can talk.

Now, I'm going to be in a debate tomorrow with an Eastern Orthodox guy against the Nether Orthodox guy. He used to be a Calvinist, That's right here. And uh now he's uh an Eastern Orthodox guy.

So, um And how can somebody be saved? Part one, and I'm not sure how this is going to work. I don't I don't understand it yet, but I'll just figure it out as I go tomorrow. Can water baptism save? And part two, can faith alone save?

So I'm supposed to be debating uh that And no, water baptism doesn't save you, and yes, faith alone does save you.

Next. And we're done.

So, I don't know what he's going to bring up, but I'm sure it'll be in line with the heresies and the false teachings of the Eastern Orthodox Church with their baptismal regeneration, their works righteousness, their ceremonial this and that, their sacerdotal this and that, and the false gospel that they preach and teach because they add works to salvation by invoking the necessity of a ceremony, baptism. As part of salvation.

So they preach a false gospel. They preach a false gospel.

So there you go. And having said all of that, if you want, you can give me a call. And uh I think, you know what, I think um Maybe we could, Laura. I don't know, I could go to the I did, I checked, let's see, it's calendar. Carm.org forward slash calendar.

I I put some stuff in there a while back. On that, I don't think I have the actual URL, which we just found out about. Of it, where the debate will be. You can go in there and put that in there. But it's on carm.org forward slash calendar.

The information that you need will be there if you're interested in. uh you know and watching the debate. And my my goal is to expose the the false doctrine. Of the Eastern Orthodox Church. It teaches a false gospel, has a false priesthood, promotes idolatry, it's a false religion.

And they very often claim to be the original church. They claim. Um That, well, let me put it this way: different EO, Eastern Orthodox individuals, will say different things within a range of things, but it'll be interesting to find out. It's been difficult to find out what this guy's position is, to be honest. I did a little bit of research.

I couldn't find out what his view on baptism exactly is.

So, I prepared something I think is generically acceptable. And um we'll just see. And we'll just see, you know, it's not a big deal. All right. Oh, and tomorrow, when it'll be tomorrow, at what time it'll be 1 p.m.

Eastern time. 1 p.m. Eastern Time at ministry to muslims.com. That's where it's going to be. And uh Ministry T O, ministry to Muslims.com.

So I know the guy who heads that up, George, is a great guy, great guy, loves the Lord. And he's Arabic, speaks Arabic, and he loves Jesus. It is wonderful to see that and to experience that.

Alright, no callers waiting.

So, uh like I said if you uh want to uh Give me a call, you can 877-207-2276.

Now, what I've been doing is going through an article. that I wrote uh um a while back um April 9th I released it. On why are Protestant youth turning to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy? I think it's worth going through a little bit more. went through some stuff.

I'm going to go through another point. that I think uh is worth just commenting. And that is, within Protestantism we have the embarrassing reality of denominational divisions that are just excessive. I think that what we could really have, in my opinion, is just a few denominations, you know, Reformed. Non-denominational, Lutheran, things like this.

Just generic divisions and then subdivisions within those, which is fine. There are those kinds of divisions in Orthodoxy, Eastern Orthodoxy. There's, I think, like 30 groups under Eastern Orthodoxy, 40 or so under Roman Catholicism.

So when the EO and the RC Complain and throw stones at us.

So, you have so many denominational differences, the divisions. Who's right? And they ask the wrong question. They uh He shouldn't be throwing stones because Well, they got their own issues. And I brought this up before with them, and what they'll do is justify it.

Well, it's okay with us because we have one leader and blah blah blah. Anyway.

So, the multitude of Protestant denominations does imply theological confusion, but a lot of people don't realize. That Okay. Divisions can occur. as long as they are not doctrinal in the sense of the essentials. Uh So Let's see.

There's the version we're trying to find. I'll find it here in a second. And so, what we want to say, I want to get to anyway, is the idea that we can have differences on like infant baptism or adult baptism only or charismatic gifts or not charismatic gifts, pre-church rapture, post-chip rapture, things like that. Those are the issues of where we can have denominational preferences and differences, but they're not going to deviate in the essentials of the Christian faith. And so, and that's just how it is.

A lot of times they fail to understand that we affirm. the essentials of the Christian faith. And uh There's a verse in the Bible that talks about there must be factions among you. See if I can find it really fast. I used to have it memorized.

I think I know what it is, but I'm gonna say it wrong if I do. Let's see. Uh And I was right. Anyway, 1 Corinthians 11:19, there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

So it's not that we can't have divisions and issues, but we can, we should unite in the essentials of the Christian faith.

Okay, now here's another thing that I think is a problem for Protestantism. Besides the denominational differences, which the youth will see and wonder who might have the truth. And because the youth generally don't have any theological depth or understanding, they've gone to churches where they might have Nambi-Pamby preaching and feel good theology and the four steps to a better shoelace tying experience, that they want something better. Want something deeper. And so I think what a lot of happens is they go into these churches with all the pomp and the ceremony and the smells and bells and the gold and the silver and the.

uh the, so to speak, uh icons and idols. That they like to say ties them with the ancient time. That can be enticing to people who. Just don't know the truth. Uh It's like walking into a place where everything's pretty.

Ooh, ah, I like it. It doesn't mean it's true, it's just pretty.

Some people are drawn to that kind of a thing. and are drawn in light of it to the historical roots. that sometimes those churches will assert that they have. And they They do. They will say they are each one of them, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholicism.

EO and RC. They'll say that they are the true church. Their church. I always get tired of this. Hey, our church is the true church.

Ah, jeez. Um And you know, Mormons say Jehovah's Witnesses say it. Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Roman Catholicism. Our church is the true church. It just annoys me.

I like to say, oh, another only true church, here we go. And what's your particular bent? on how you're the only true church. You know, it's always sad in my mind when they talk like this because they're not dealing with the issue of coming to Christ. They're talking about their true church, that salvation is found in a church.

not in the person and work of Jesus Christ. This is always telling to me. Because the Holy Spirit bears witness of Jesus, John 15, 26, John 14, 26. And the father does too. If you talk to my beloved son, whom I'm well, please listen to him.

Matthew 3 talks about this. I say to people, look, if you're going to see what's in someone's heart, just let 'em talk. If they say our church is where you find truth, then run. if they say, Let's point you to Jesus. He's God in flesh, died on the cross, rose from the dead.

Now that's something to pursue. Because that's an issue of truth. And so a lot of times because the The internals are missing: the baptism of the Spirit, the circumcision of the heart, the indwelling of the Lord. the uh the the work of God in us and through us. Because generally the true church is ceremonial, it is comprised of externals.

The ceremony, the smells, the bells, the gold, the silver, the statues, the windows, the kneel, the stand, the sit. And this replaces. In my mind, it's a satanic replacement. It replaces the work of God in the heart.

So they confuse the externals and the internals. And a lot of times people want something. that the Protestants, in my opinion, have not really Fathom the depth of the power of God's word for the internal encounter of God, that relationship we're to have with Him and how He works in our lives in real time. And because Bambi-Pamby theology and sermons are going on so so frequently that we don't People aren't experiencing that encounter with God. And so they look to something else and they go, Well, these guys aren't saying anything.

Let's go to a church that looks like it's good. Let's go to what the externals are. and then they go to these churches with the smells and bells and uh Yeah. Clangs and chimes and Uh you know incense and Uh you know it's It's just I just don't get it. It's just so far beyond me.

You know, it's like me and country western music.

Sorry, folks, but it's like, I just don't get it. What's the point? I don't get it. Go watch the sports events and scream and yell in the freezing rain, you know, at some guys throwing balls around. To me, I'm like, Yeah.

Why? I I don't get it. And I just don't. And I don't get why anybody would want to go to a church with all the smells and bells and and uh and and stuff and and uh all of robes and the I To me, that's just not what Christianity is about. It's about your relationship with Jesus.

It's just that simple. It's all about Jesus. And uh you should be seeking Jesus. Uh and if you I'm gonna tell you. If you're having trouble with your relationship with Christ, you don't spend time on your knees with Him.

And you prefer going to a church that gives you all these externals, so you're in trouble. You're in deep trouble. Look, 1 Corinthians 1:9, God is faithful, through whom we're called into fellowship with His Son, Christ Jesus. We are called into fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ. That's what we're supposed to be doing.

And having fellowship with him, and that means you spend time praying to him, you talk to him. You listen to His speaking in the Word of God. This is fellowship and intimacy. This is what we're specifically called to. And is that what your church is working on?

Now, yesterday we talked a little bit about the issue of the pastors needing to equip the Christians for the work of ministry. And that's more of an intellectual, practical thing and how you can reach out. But they're also supposed to promote the idea of that intimate relationship with the Lord. And I don't know, is that happening at your church? I don't know.

Is it happening at the Eastern Orthodox Church? I can't say it is, can't say it isn't. The ones I've been to in Europe, it just smells and bells. And the Catholic Churches have been here too. Uh I'm not saying people can't experience God that way.

But It's couched in ritual. and ritual becomes the norm instead of fellowship with Christ. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Nobody's waiting. If you want to give me a call, it's 877-207-2276.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All Rodrigo and welcome today. Welcome reading the words.

Welcome back to the show. Let's get to Peter from Utah. Peter, welcome here on the air. Matt Slick, thank you for having me. I called you yesterday about a KJV question, but I got another question today.

I talk with LDS people all the time. Priesthood is a big topic that I talk with them about.

So in the Old Testament, you had Aaronic priesthood.

So you had all of the descendants of of Aaron, they were priests, but you only had one high priest. And then New Testament, Jesus Christ, we learned that Jesus Christ is our high priest. Um after the order of Melchizedek. But then also in 1 Peter chapter 2 and then Revelation, you learn that believers are part of the priesthood. And so.

My question is: what is the title of Jesus Christ priesthood? And then, does that mean that the followers of like the believers are part of that priesthood. No, he has the priesthood, the Melchizedek priesthood, Hebrews 6:20 and 7:25, it's held only by one person at a time. According to the Hebrews. And we are of a different priesthood, a generic kind of a priesthood.

And so there's a difference there. 1 Peter 2 talks about. Uh the priesthood of all believers. And then Jesus is the high priest who lives forever to make intercession for us.

So he's actively interceding for us forever. And we are the ministers of that gospel to all people in the sense that we're that priesthood. Yeah, and that that makes sense, but like so I I know that Jesus Christ is our high priest, but that's that that priesthood is is the Melchizedek priesthood, correct? Yeah, after the order of Melchizedek is right, after Melchizedek, right.

Okay, and so then if we are Believe like you're the priest of of that. I understand that he is our our high priest. We only need one, and it's eternal, and it it's beautiful. But so then who are like the the priests? under him.

Wouldn't that just be the I I've I've never believed that I had an alternative to Until yesterday, I was like, Well, who are the priests? below him. And then if we're part of Peter calls it the royal priesthood or the holy priesthood. It it never says Jesus is the um High priest of that priesthood. Which there it just says that he's the high priest of the Milkasic priesthood.

So I'm wondering if the two are the same. No, they're not. No, they're not. We are not said to have a formal priesthood with smells and bells and garments and an altar. This is something that is Christ alone.

He fulfilled the law in order to enter into that priesthood. This is at his baptism in Matthew 3:15. And what he did at that baptism was fulfill the requirements from Leviticus 8, Numbers 4, X's 29. He had to be 30 years of age in order to enter the priesthood, as the Old Testament prophesies. has that verbal blessing given, my beloved Son, whom I'm well pleased.

He had to be anointed with oil, and that's the representation of the Holy Spirit coming down. Biblically, he had to be sprinkled with water according to the priesthood requirements. Not immersed, but sprinkled.

So I believe Jesus was sprinkled at his baptism according to the law. Numbers 8:7 talks about that.

So that's my opinion on that.

So, what's the priesthood we have then? Then all it is is the priesthood here is but the entire body of believers. It's not a subset of an ordained. clergy kind of of priesthood that Christ has. It's not like that.

Uh agreed. Yeah, agreed. I would just It just seems like um The the the Old Testament I I understand I don't know it's very rigged and s uh just strict and rigid. But if it says, Okay, you have these priests and then they have a high priest. And now New Testament, okay, believers are are are called priests.

And I understand that Jesus is our high priest, but I just don't see a verse that says the high priest of the holy priesthood or the high priest of the royal priesthood. Even though we we know that he is. I'm just wondering if the the two We're we're together. Melchizedek Melchizedek was Is the holy priesthood or the royal priest. Um I I I have a question about The mysterious figure Melchizedek in in uh Genesis fourteen, I believe.

Yes. Um Because a lot of people think he is a high priest, and I don't. The verse doesn't say he's a high priest, and also he's like a shadowy, just foreshadow of Christ. Um, what what are your thoughts on on him is he a real person or is he just a foreshadow i mean it says he's Without genealogy. I'm just uh It doesn't say high priest.

So that's why I also asked the question. It says he's a priest.

So to me, I'd say, okay, there's this Melchizedek figure that is just a priest, not a high priest. And then Jesus is the high priest of that order. I'm not sure you're questioning this now, so.

So to me, my first question was, it looks like Jesus is the high priest of the Melchizedek Order.

Okay.

Well, in Genesis 14, you have this shadowy figure. He's not a high priest. He is just a priest.

Okay, so I'm getting lost as I'm listening to you. What's the question, though? I'm just.

Sorry. My question would be then, so If the Aaronic priesthood back in the old covenant, you had one high priest and then you had a bunch of priests below him.

Okay, well, if Melchizedek, the guy in Genesis 14, The text says that he is a priest. That he is a freak. I mean it doesn't say high priest or nothing, just a priest. Then Jesus is Is our high priest.

So it looks like it's the same thing. It looks like there is a high priest, and it looks like there is a priest. That's why I'm wondering who this Melchizedek shadowy figure is, because it looks like there's a high priest and a child.

Okay, well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I don't understand what your question is, because you go in different directions, and so I'm not sure what the question is. I'm sorry, maybe I'm all over.

Well, my question would be because at first I asked if it's like kind of set up that way, if those believers are part of that priesthood, and you said no.

So now I'm pointing out that that Melchizedek guy. is a priest and Jesus is a high priest.

So then is it those those two? Or look Peter, I don't know what your question is. I'm sorry, I can't follow.

So, if you were just asking a one-sentence question. What would that be?

So I can get right to it.

Well, let let let's go about it this way. Who is that Melchizedek figure in Genesis fourteen? Because some people okay, that's your question. That's your question. Who is he?

Okay.

So some people think he's a pre-incarnate manifestation of Christ.

Some think he's just a figure that was extracted out of the scriptures by the writer of Hebrews to represent who Christ was typologically in the Old Testament.

Some say pre-incarnate, and some say he was just a guy, and then he was stripped. It wasn't stripped. He was spoken of in such high features in order to show a representation of Christ. And so I don't hold that he was a pre-incarnate Christ personally. I think he was a real guy, and that was it.

Okay.

Yeah. And I believe that he was a real guy too. I don't think he's a preincarnate Christ. But so that right there shows that there is a priest to the Melchizedek priesthood because he the text doesn't say he's a high priest.

So then that's why I bring That was my first question to you: was okay, if Jesus is our high priest, then who is like a priest below him? Uh Because that Melchizedek guy was. And so what about these believers, us believers? 'Cause it isn't just Okay, okay, I don't know what you're saying. I still am not sure what your second question is.

But um There's just one high priest, that's it. Our priesthood is a generic, our priesthood is not a clergy. The generic priesthood of Christians is not clergy, don't have sacerdotal systems, we don't have any sacramental obligations, we're just generically the priesthood of all believers. It's just that uh We have the right to be able to present Christ and intercede for people. Hold on, bud.

We got a break, okay? Hold on, man. All right. Hey, folks, we right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2.

2276. Let's get back in with Peter. Peter, are you still there? I am. I'm done driving, so hopefully, I can be a little bit more clear with you.

So, my question was: in the old covenant, Old Testament, you had one high priest and then below him you had a whole bunch of priests. New New Covenant. We have Jesus as our high priest, and below, there's nothing because. That's not my question. Yes, there's nothing.

There's no need because he's our one high priest. It's done. the priesthood was the Old Testament style. We don't need that now because Jesus is our high priest in heaven, and that's all we need.

So then, why was he a priest in Genesis? Why was that Melchizedek guy a priest in Genesis? Because John 5:39 says that the scriptures are about Jesus.

So, just put the question there: why is Melchizedek mentioned in the Old Testament? Because the Bible is about Jesus. and it's a pointing uh head to Christ. That's why.

Okay, okay.

Okay.

Yeah, that was my question. Just it has like a role, and I'm just wondering if that role is just completely gone or if the believers built that role. But the priesthood was for the law. when we needed sacrificial systems. We don't need a priesthood any more.

And so false religions Will have priesthoods where they have to do offerings or special intercessions because of their priesthood duties. That's a reflection back on the Old Testament, of which we're no longer under. And so, false religions will have this kind of stuff, like Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, for example. Even Mormonism. And they have to have a certain amount of money.

Okay, so it's just people who don't know what the Bible actually teaches. It's why they hold these things. My other question, because it says that Jesus entered the holy places once, right, through his flesh, and so that was at the crucifix. fiction and so So then this mysterious Melchizedek figure in Genesis fourteen, he was just A priest? Uh with no high priest.

About him? We don't have anything written about him. And so I can't answer you other than he's called a high priest.

Now uh Abraham tithed to him. He's brought up in Scripture in the Old Testament and New Testament. And that's all we have. We can't really add too much more than what it says. There's not a whole bunch there.

Okay.

Okay.

Awesome. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. All right, brother. God bless.

Okay.

Alright. All right, now let's get to Oscar from New York. Oscar, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you.

Yes. My question, I have a friend. She tells me she has visions.

Now I'm kind of puzzled. If we still have visions today, How to tell if you are from God. By checking scripture. Because the Bible says in your last day in the latter days, your young man will dream dreams, et cetera. And so the idea of visions being pertinent for today is biblically founded.

Now whether or not they uh any particular person is having them, that's the issue. That's the issue.

Okay, so the way to check Is to look at what the scripture says.

Now, it says in Peter's sermon. In Acts 2:17, it shall be in the last days, God says, that I'll pour forth my spirit on all mankind, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

Now, we could get super technical and say, Well, it only says men are going to see visions, not women. And there may be something to that, but I'm not going to stand on that hill right now. But the idea here is of at least the young seeing visions. Having visions.

So, if someone comes to me and says, I've had a vision, okay, well, what is it? What's the vision? And we'll check it with scripture. It's not hard.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of people are just automatically against it. And I say, let the scriptures judge, let the scriptures teach us. And uh go by what it says and it and it says the last days there'll be people having visions.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, thank you, thank you.

Alright brother, God bless.

Okay.

All right, now let's get to Chris from Ohio. Chris, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Kind of a Segue into my question.

So, Daniel 12:4.

So, Daniel says, Shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end, where knowledge. will go to and fro and knowledge where men would go to and fro, knowledge shall be increased. I've always kind of wondered, I've read commentaries on what this is talking about, kind of end time stuff or you know, God's word being to spread. What what's your take on that? Yeah, I'm quite familiar with the verse, and there have been different interpretations of it, just like I'm sure you're aware of.

I probably won't tell you anything different. But the end of time is spoken of in different places, and many will go back and forth.

Now I've heard commentaries say that the back and forth means great distances and knowledge will increase. And so some have said that this makes sense in the last hundred years. Because obviously our ability to uh fly on the other side of the planet in in uh you know a day. And the knowledge that we have is just incredible. Yeah, yeah, right, right.

So it's reasonable. Yeah. All right. Yeah, thank you. Sure.

Okay.

Well, God bless. Have a good day. Thank you. Alright. All right, now let's get to James from South Carolina.

James, welcome. You're on here. I'm you. be precious. All right.

All right, let's get to James from South Carolina. James, welcome. You're on the air. Good afternoon. Turn your radio down, James.

All right. Yeah. Um, hold on a second. I was on the computer. That's okay.

My question is in Revelation chapter 3, and it has to come out of. Let's see, where was I at? Um Not first ten. I'm talking about first Well twelve.

Okay.

Where it says, Hold on to what you have, so no one takes your crown. The victor, I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out again. Can you explain that one to me? Uh wish I could. Um okay.

Because uh revelation is notoriously difficult to interpret.

Okay.

The only way that I could see it was is that it says is going to make us pillars is literally a pillar is something that holds up. a building, it's a uh some kind of a standard or something like that. Is that what it pertains to?

Well, it does because it uses the word pillars.

So it pertains to it.

So not sure what I mean that the people that are going to be I well, my question, I guess, is the people that are. because you have kept my command and to endure, I'll keep you from the hour testing that is going to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth. Says he's coming quickly. Don't let anybody take your crown. And he's going to make us a pillar.

And then we'll never go out again. Does that mean we would never leave the New Jerusalem? Is that what he's talking about? The heavenly city coming down?

Okay.

I can't tell you, okay, because I don't know.

So, uh Well that's true. Yeah, and they're The problem here is, like I said, Revelation is a very symbolic book. And in order to understand Revelation, it takes a lot of study. And you have to go back into the Old Testament and places in the New Testament.

Now, what it says here is it's a Philadelphia. All right. Your deeds have been good. Open door, non-can shut. Because Yeah, uh kept a word not denied the name.

Hey. And automatic. He overcomes.

Sorry, good old distractions. He overcomes.

I'll make him a colour in the temple. He who overcomes make him a pillar in the temple, and it won't go out.

So I'm gathering it's a promise of permanence and security in Christ. That's what it looks like to me. Mm-hmm. But So, in the New Jerusalem, that's yet another question. What does that mean?

I've read stuff on commentaries on this. The New Jerusalem is. Difficult to understand because one commentary said it's going to be like a cube 1600 miles by 1600 miles if you do certain calculations one way, and some say a little bit smaller. the New Jerusalem.

Well, this Jerusalem is the city of God.

So the new city of God does it mean physically Jerusalem, or is Jerusalem here representative of something else in heaven in our dwelling with God, as we're citizens of heaven?

So it just gets difficult to say exactly what it means. Yep, that could be. I heard that too about the city being the square. and coming down out of he you know, coming down out of heaven it would Kind of like The vision that you have is the square coming down. And it's people can come in and out, but there's certain people that will never leave.

And that's the impression that I'm getting from when I read it. No, um Well, it's very far down, so that would be a good idea. Yeah, and I can't tell you. I wish I really, you know, had studied Revelation a lot more when I was younger, but I find that going to it It's Difficult to nail down exactly because it's so full of symbols. That's all I can say.

Okay, all right, brother. Oh yeah, sounds good. All right then, God bless.

Okay.

Hey, we'll be back with Jermaine. after the break. You stay tuned, 877-207-2276. Direct Pack. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. One and only Jermaine is now on. Hey, brother, welcome.

Hey, Matt, I um wanted to ask you about some of the dispensational brothers A friend of mine sent me the uh They always pull out the chart on you. And uh I'm trying to Be merciful here, but you know, I actually grew up in dispensational church, so I've seen a lot of that stuff. I just think there's a lot more to discuss. But One there's one particular poster that uh my friend follows who insist that there's two programs, one for Israel. and one for the church.

And they always had the separation in act. And uh w you know they they He did differentiate between their church being Dispensationalist, dispensationalist, but not hyper-dispensationalist, and he goes back to Bollinger and whatnot, but. I what what do you have to say about that? I I mean I love them to death, but uh I'm like, you know, you you can clearly see there there's some error in some of the teachings.

Well, it's classical um dispensationalism and Um In my opinion, dispensationalists have I mean that in the sense of the psychological phenomena snap, they're in. It's just how the truth is. And I don't think dispensationalism is biblical. Uh I think it's uh it's a uh division that mankind has put upon Scripture. God works covenantally, and that's what He says.

And covenant is based on God's word in the inter Trinitarian communion and His keeping of His Word with us. And so, if you look at that that way, then you'll have fewer problems that arise compared to dispensationalism. Which holds, in this case, we were talking about two distinct peoples, two distinct programs: one for Israel, one for everybody else. But the problem is, Galatians 3:28, there's neither Jew nor Greek, there's all one in Christ.

So Covenantally, God is not done with Israel yet. And so there's not one way of salvation for the Jews, another way for the Gentiles, as some dispies say.

Some have said that, and that that would be heresy. There's only one way through Jesus Christ.

So um In Ephesians 2, it talks about Jesus having made peace with both groups, being the Jews and the Gentiles.

So, as we go through scriptures, we could see that there's no dividing wall anymore between us, and that to then say that there still is, and that God's program with the Jews is different and salvifically speaking than it is with the Gentiles, would be problematic. If, however, dispensationalist says God's not done with Israel, He's still going to use them, and then calls that dispensationalism, well, you can call it that all he wants. That's fine, you know, because that's a reformed view as well. Covenantal view, and so you know. Yeah.

Yeah, there's problems.

Okay.

Okay, and um I have to pick this up next week, Laura Willing, where we get more time because They're the the short always gets me. Like some of them really hold To these charts. And they pull them out as if they're almost gospel. I I have a book from a a deceased brother named Clarence Larkin who I think originated a lot of this stuff and I mean, it it gets out of hand to me. It's like, well, every time there's an inaccuracy, it seems like you guys explain it away.

You know, and these are not, they can't be accurate. Yeah. One of the ways of uh You know what mortars are in um in in battle, right? You know, and it's this thing arcs out and goes. you know, mortar in battle, right?

Um one of some of the mortars that you can send. Into the dispensational landscape deals with the issue of the two-age model. And it causes problems for them, big problems. They have trouble rectifying. You can only do so many.

You can say, well, that I can explain this one, and then the next one.

Well, maybe 80% of that one, and then 70%, then 60%, then 50%, 40%. Then pretty soon they're swimming. The 2-H model, in my opinion, blows holes in dispensational thought. Uh because um Dispensationalism is heavily rooted in premillennialism. And when you do the 2H model, premillennialism uh starts uh It's crumbling.

And so then that would by default uh go back to disp dispensational view. Yeah. Okay.

Okay, yeah, I I might plan to uh lovingly disrupt a study tomorrow that I'm sure they'll invite me to, but I I think it's for a good cause.

So do you have any articles that I can pull up? to kind of uh Dispute some of this stuff.

Well, let's see. Go here, go to Carm, the greatest website on the internet. And let's see, go to dispensationalism. And what is dispensationalism? What are the differences between dispensationalism and covenantalism?

And those are the two articles that come up. On millennialism, premillennialism also come up. and you can check them out and see what you think. I wrote them back in this one, one in 2016, and it goes through various things.

So I'm always. I need to go through. I wish I had a year to go through my old articles and just update them, you know, the new stuff I've learned and. over the years. But at any rate, so there's articles there.

Okay.

Okay, I love getting on the carb site doing some homework tonight.

So Yeah. Appreciate it, Matt. Thank you very much, and have a good weekend, brother. You too, brother. God bless, Germaine.

Alright. All right, now let's get to Jeff from Ohio. Hey, Jeff, welcome. You're on the air. Hey.

Hey, thanks for taking my call, Matt. Sure.

Now, I understand. I heard you either last night or a couple nights ago. You say, and I. I pretty much know you're a Calvinist, correct? That's correct.

Yes, I am.

Okay, yeah, I consider myself that as well. Um, However, there's some questions.

Well, I understand the Calvinist reform position on Israel. At least the modern state is that the promise God gave to Abraham. You know, saying, I'll bless those who bless you, I'll curse those who curse you, do not apply today. Um And However, Yeah, I feel sometimes a little Oh, well, yeah, the thing is. But the official, most Calvinists and Reform types, they don't accept that.

They. And. They I think But the thing is, though, I kind of wonder about that because one. In 1948, God sovereignly raised up that nation and has kept it there firmly in like in 1967 and 73 wars. The, you know, there were a lot of miraculous, you know, things that.

that there were miraculous interventions In fact, the media in 1967 called the Six-Day War the War of Miracles. Yes, it's true. There were lots of them. Yep. Yeah, in fact, even visions on the part from both sides.

And Well, do you have a question, though? Question that position that most Calvinists seem to have. with regard to modern Israel. And I'm with you. I I agree.

The general reform position has been handed down for a couple, three, four hundred years. generally, it's that the land eschatologically is fulfilled in the work of Christ. Israel is the covenant people truly who are those who believe. And true Israel is for those who are in Christ, that kind of thing. And there's scriptures that talk about this kind of stuff.

So there's not We don't want to say that the reformed who hold of that don't have their biblical basis. But I think they spiritualize it too much. I don't think that they um Really see the distinguishing factor that, like, May 14th, 1948, is when Israel became a nation again, and God's not done with Israel. And Matthew Romans 11, 25-26 talks about it.

So I say to people, No, he's not done with Israel. And covenantally, he's not done. Even as a Calvinist, I'll say that.

So I don't agree with most of my Reformed brethren in that one. All right. Yeah, and the thing is though, you know, those who say, you know, that the true that Israel is the church, you know, that's Flirting with replacement theology. And I see that as a big no-no. And In fact, I tend to prefer to refer to Expansion theology, which, you know, the vine's still there.

But a bunch of wild shoots have been added to it. including myself. I like it. I like that expansion theology. He's expanding his kingdom, and we are in it, but he's not done with Israel yet.

I firmly believe that as a reformed individual who also holds to the charismatic gifts, I do too.

So I hold to that.

Something a little unusual. Yeah, same with me. I mean, you know, I'm not a cessationist either. Um However, My position on the gifts The But you know, like prophecy, tongues, healing, all and As well as administration and teaching, those are gifts. Uh However, my position is forbid not, mandate not.

particularly with when it comes to praying in tongues. I say, hey, don't forbid it, but don't demand it either. I mean, you know, there are those. Strong charismatics who say, Well, if you can't speak in tongues, you haven't been baptized with the Spirit. It's a cult.

I mean, you know, a lot of charismatics take that position. And I know I've had family members burned by that position. And And so my position is forbid not, mandate not. Yes, it's a good generic way to say things. Don't force it on people and make sure you're grounded.

It's just basic common sense. There's a lot of false teachers out there and inadequate pastors teaching bad theology all over the world. in particular United States, it's definitely happening.

So good, you know, good for you. But again, you know, like, you know, I'm not a cessationist, but I do know I've seen a lot of weird stuff among charismatics. Absolutely correct.

So you've gotta be careful. Yeah, I just think it's it's fake. Yep. Mm-hmm. What's fake?

A lot of the charismatic stuff that they do is just fake stuff. I've seen a video of of uh two guys just morons on T V, big crowd of people, and they're speaking in tongues, telling each other jokes in tongues, laughing. And and the the idiocy of of such a display. These charlatans. Yeah, I also question, you know, I'm a little Doubtful with regard to being slain in the spirit.

You know, I mean, where is that in the Bible?

Well, it's in Acts 5 when Ananias and Sapphira are both slain by the Spirit, but a different kind of slain in the Spirit. Believe it or not, what I've read or understood is that Jonathan Edwards, the greatest American mind ever produced, probably was Jonathan Edwards. He was a Calvinist and he preached. And there are recordings written of people apparently being slain in the Spirit. uh falling out of their chairs.

out of their seats, out of their pews, uh wailing on on the ground. um at his preaching. And not because it was bad. But because it was so powerful.

So who knows? Yeah. All right. So, but, you know, I think, was it you who said. You encountered one of these charlatans.

You know, you didn't mention his name, but. He tried to push you over. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have to call me next on Monday, and I can tell you the story, because we're out of time right now. It's not a big deal, but I can tell you the story.

All right, gotta go. Gotta go, brother. We're out of time. The Lord bless you. All right, hey folks, we are out of time.

May the Lord bless you by His grace. We'll be back on the air tomorrow and Lord willing. I mean, not tomorrow. Gosh, I always do that Monday. We'll talk to you then.

Have a great evening. Another program powered by the Truth Network.