You know, I've realized I'm kind of picky when it comes to Bible translations. Yeah, you are, because you're the guy that underlines half the page and then argues with the footnotes. And I'm a good arguer. But, you know, I care about two things, faithfulness to the original text and just being able to read it without feeling like I'm reading a dictionary. Which is why we're grateful for the support of the Christian Standard Bible.
The CSB was created to be accurate and readable, helping people engage God's word with confidence and clarity. And it's sponsors like the CSB that help make this podcast possible. To learn more, visit csbible.com. Hi. You know how many alcoholics say, I never want to grow up and be an alcoholic like my dad, and repeat the cycle?
Just not wanting to be it doesn't guarantee you're not going to repeat it. There has to be a step like. I need to write a letter. To my father and forgive him. Like, I need to join a 12-step program and deal with this issue.
Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today.
So, my favorite thing makes me cry. Every time At church. And it's not the sermon. It's not even singing worship, although that's powerful. It is life change stories.
When somebody tells a story of life change story, baptism. When you do baptism, you're sobbing. I weep. I just, every time I weep. And the only reason I'm bringing that up because I think, okay.
Here's the thing: you're sitting there, and somebody's telling a life story, and you want that story. And I know if I'm telling one, and people out there, I know they want God to move in their life the same way. To have a story. Yeah. Yeah.
But a lot of people never realize the most important thing that needs to happen for that life story to be their life story. What is it? I mean, my first response is Jesus. Like, Jesus gives us life stories. That is the answer.
But I'm thinking on the other side of our side of it is we have to take a step. We have to do something. And of course, you're smiling because you wrote a book on this. Your podcast is called Bold Steps, right? And I just thought, man, if I'm going to introduce Mark and D.
Job, I got to talk about taking a bold step to life change. But I mean, we're back on day two with you guys. Welcome back. Yeah, great to be back with you. I mean, tell our audience a little bit about what Bold Steps is.
I know it's more than just a podcast. It's a way of life, right? It really is. And here's where it came from.
So About 25 years ago.
Okay. We were leading all these people to Christ. They were coming to Jesus a little bit. Through your church, is it? Through our church, inner city of Chicago.
That's right. And a lot of brokenness, a lot of baggage. And so we started doing these encounter retreats, we call them, for men and women separately. And the theme that emerged was this: everybody has a cycle to break. Everybody has a bold step to take and everybody has a legacy to make.
It's about breaking cycles in the past. It's about taking bold steps of obedience and it's about creating a new legacy as well. What is it that you're forging?
So I'm talking to guys who You know, they've had addiction from their grandfather, their parents. They, and if they don't break that cycle, it's going to be passed down. Yeah. And so we say, What's the bold step you're going to take to break that cycle? It's not going to happen through passive neutrality, it's going to happen with a bold step.
And so at the end, At both the women's and men's encounter retreat. They would get up and share their bold step. And we'd say, What's your bold step? And then we would cheer them as they go down the hey, bold step, bold step. And so when I started the program on the radio, they were saying, What should we call it?
What should we call it? And someone said, You know what? You challenge people to take bold steps.
So that's where bold step came from. That can preach right there. You're the president of Moody Bible College. I bet you've talked about that at chapel. I have.
Oh, I bet you have. Everybody has a cycle to break, a bold step to take, and a legacy to make.
Well, let's talk about that a little bit. How do you break the cycle? I know you got to take a bold step, but I mean, where do you start? Because I had a pretty bad cycle: two alcoholic parents, divorce, you know, adultery, the whole thing. And I know I've had to walk that journey, but as I was becoming a man, and even when Ann and I got married, I did not know that I had a cycle that I had to break.
I had to understand that. Generational sin. Generational sin that falls into the laps.
So, a couple of things I would say about this. Number one, you're not responsible for the background that you come from, but you are affected by it.
So, your parents' grandparents' sins, it's not your responsibility, but you are deeply affected. The Bible says that the sins of the parents fall into the laps of the children. Is that your translation of Exodus 20? Yeah, yeah, the fourth generation is deeply into the laps of the children. Here's what we've taught people.
And I use the story of Gideon because think about it. Gideon's father was the guardian of the astropole. He was like he was seeped in paganism. And we think, well, What's bad with that? Child sacrifice involved in the ashtrum worship.
It was very ungodly, very pagan. And when people pointed to Gideon, hey, isn't that the son of the guy that takes care of the astronomer?
So that was his identity. When he came to God. And he was about to be commissioned to his new season of life. God told them, go and cut down. your dad's astral pole.
use the wood of the astropole to fuel The fire to the altar of the living God. I believe that's an image that you can use.
So some people. Their background is infidelity, addiction, bitterness, alcoholism, a divorce. It's part of their heritage. It's what they grew up with. And I say.
You need to cut down that pole. And the very thing that has been maybe your shame, the very thing that you say, that's not what I want to be, may it be the fuel to the fire of God. But you have to take an action step. And we challenge people. Take a step that you know you've taken.
It can't be, I want to be a better person, or I don't want to do this. You know how many alcoholics say, I never want to grow up and be an alcoholic like my dad, and repeat the cycle? Just not wanting to be it doesn't guarantee you're not going to repeat it. There has to be a step like. I need to write a letter.
To my father and forgive him. Like, I need to join a 12-step program and deal with this issue. And sometimes the very thing that we're coming out of helps constitute the calling that we're going into because we understand the pain of it. Like, I had a guy 17 years ago, he walked into the church, a cocaine addict. His aunt practically drugged him there, and he said, I'm not going to stand up.
I'm not going to sing. I'm not going to take off my sunglasses. And so he said in the back, he's about six foot six. I'm not going to do any of that. And God got a hold of him, turned him around, broke that addiction, and he is a drug addiction counselor now because he understands it.
That fuels his calling. Yeah. And sometimes people that are in a certain calling, You know, you're in a marriage, and I don't know your full story, the background, your full story, but I bet there's stuff there that you say, you know, that. We could have ended up in a bad place, or we come from some places, but this fuels our calling because we know that this can be different than what we've lived or what our life could have been. And so there's a passion, there's a fire to see the healing happen.
And usually, that's the way it is in our lives as well. Yeah, it's sort of like God meets you in your pain, and then he blows us away because in that pain, he doesn't just meet us, he then uses it as our platform. It almost becomes our purpose. When you said that, Mark, I was like, Yep, my broken home is fueled why we're sitting here today. It's like we have this passion, number one, to lead people to Jesus and the gospel, but to see marriages restored.
Why? Because we came out of, I came out of a broken one. Yeah, and I didn't even know that that was going to be a fire inside me, but it is. But it wasn't until we really struggled and we almost lost our marriage. That's what woke us up to say, oh, we need to break the cycle.
Did you guys have cycles that you had to break? We've had a lot of cycles we've had to break, I think. I've had a lot of cycles. I've had I was wondering because you talked yesterday, Dee, just about watching your parents' marriage wasn't something that you would want to have. Right.
And I learned what a Christian home was was really I didn't learn it in the way I wish I had. And so, but I think what's really important at these encounter retreats, I just had one with 600 women before a couple months ago. But we have them look through, we name things, we name some of those sins, some of those cycles. And I think you need to identify what cycles are in your family. And we don't ask people to deal with all of them, but choose one you're going to start with and take what's your bold step with that one cycle.
Which, what do you want to get, do you need to pursue counseling? What is it? And so for me, yeah, there were cycles. There were cycles of anger and bitterness and insecurity. And so it just doesn't have to be an addiction.
No, right. No, no. You're saying internal things that you're just struggling with are lies that you've been listening to internally. Yeah. Bold steps get us out of our comfort zone.
Bold steps confront. What we're going to be repeating. It's seldom that a Sunday doesn't go by that I put my arm around someone and say, you're a cycle breaker, you're breaking cycles. I had less cycles to break because my parents broke the cycles. And I think that when you break cycles, it doesn't relieve your kids from responsibility.
They're still going to have issues to deal with. But I think it makes it less if you're the cycle breaker, if you're the one that's breaking the cycle. And my dad had to break cycle. My mom came from an alcoholic family. They broke some major cycles.
So I was in a much healthier home. You know, we all have our issues that we have to deal with, but it wasn't as, the cycles weren't as great. And so I do believe that just as we, the sins of the parents fall into the laps of the children, so do the blessings of the parents fall into the laps of the children as well. Thousand generations. Exactly.
Exactly. And so we need to keep that in mind as well. And so you're not just doing it for you, you're also doing it for your children and their children. And I do at the end of these encounters. Retreats, I do the father, like at the women's encounter retreat, I do the father-daughter factor.
I speak into the women about sometimes the vacuum that they have of a father that's spoken into their lives. There's women weeping every time across the auditorium, every time. And he speaks to them and asks forgiveness on behalf of those dads or men that have hurt you. And that's a very powerful time. You know, as I speak at men's retreats, I try to help men understand this: when you are dealing with a temptation or a struggle, we often think, This is my struggle.
But as a father and a dad and a mom and a wife, this is not just your struggle. This will be your son's and daughter's struggle. Even if you do it in the dark and nobody ever knows, scripture is true. This will fall in their lap.
So it's like the stakes are much higher than you think. It isn't, oh, I just got to win this alcohol or this porn battle or whatever it is. It's like, my kids are going to deal with this.
So it should up the ante to say, I'm going to win this thing. I'm going to take a bold step because it isn't just about me. Is that true? Is that what you've seen? Yeah, this is what you do, but I just had a conversation with a young lady at church, single mom, divorced three beautiful little girls and now just had another uh son in a relationship.
That is not a healthy relationship. And I said, Are you going to splash blessing or curse on these kids? What are you doing? Be who he's called you to be. Looking to men to meet those needs.
It's never, never going to fill you. What are you splashing on these beautiful kids? And I think there's a list of cycles I had to break and still break. But I remember at times when it was difficult with my daughter at times, she's a great girl. But, you know, I was telling your wife before we started the show that you have three sons.
The girls are the ones who have the drama. And during that time, you know, I'm one of the who Mark talks to the women he speaks to at the encounter retreat. The last, my dad never said he loved us. Never. Never heard that.
Never mind. Yeah, never heard that.
So that was new. All of that was new. All of it was so new. The nurturing, all of that was so new. And so when high school hit, Mark.
said you know what Let me take over for a little bit. And I did. I had to back off until I can work through some of my own pain and. and dealing with the cycles that need to be broken. What was your pain doing?
I think I was more harsh. I think I'm going to, I'm going to control. Control. Yeah, it was mainly control. Out of fear and out of love, but that was the response.
But I did too. When we're fearful, we have control. Yes. And so Mark stepped in at that stage and helped me out there. I was more of a coach.
That's beautiful. Yeah. And thank God that, you know, the older kids get, the more they realize how much. And so they have a great relationship right now. But yeah, you repeat the cycles that you see typically.
Yeah. And parents break the cycle. Break the cycle. Break the cycle because you're affecting.
Now, I've been pastoring long enough now. I just realized two Sundays ago, a young married woman wanted me to dedicate her children. And she said, I really want you to do it, Pastor Mark. I said, okay. I said, why?
She said, Because you dedicated me as a baby. I said, How old are you? She said, 33. I said, Okay, man, I've been a pastor for a long time when I'm dedicating the mother, I'm dedicating the children of. And she showed me the picture when I held her and dedicated her 33 years ago.
And so, but we've been around long enough to see the couples that choose to break cycles, the effect in their children. I mean, we've seen some really wild stories. And now the kids, you would never know it because the parents help break the major cycles in their life. And of course, everybody has their things to deal with, but they're in a whole different course. Oh, yeah.
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So join us in Let's Reach Families and Marriages Together. And you can go to familylifetoday.com and click the donate button to join today. When you talk about in your book, What Now, how to move into your next season, and it's this little book. I like that it's so easy to read, right? I love it.
You can get on a plane and you're just done with it. But it has so many great principles in it. And even the last part of the book, you talk about taking the first bold step. And you talk about you guys going into Tijuana with your friends. She needs to share this story.
Yeah, so we were down at a conference in San Diego, and we invited some friends to join us. They had never been to Mexico.
So I said, okay, we'll rent a car, went to the car rental place, and they told us, well, be careful because Tijuana is really bad right now. They said the last people we rented a vehicle to. The police stopped them, had them get out of their vehicle, got in the car and drove off with the rented vehicle.
So be leery of police is what they told us. I said, Okay.
So we go down there, we have a dinner, we were driving Back up in Tijuana with this rented vehicle, and someone says, Hey, there's a cop behind you. I'm laughing and look in the mirror, and sure enough, so I. Put the turning signal on, turn lanes, and they move behind me. And then they turn on their lights and start waving that I go to the side.
So I pull to the side. This guy, dark sunglasses, gun in his holster, comes up to me, motorcycle guy, and in Spanish, he says. You know, pull into that alley up there because it's too dangerous here.
So someone says, Take off, take off. Are you nervous? I was nervous, but I knew my nephew was with us and he assured me we were going to be fine. Assured me, he convinced us to go to this place on the beach, have lobster, and he assured me we would get back soon.
Okay. So we pull over, and this cop starts talking to me. Like, he says, I'm going to give you a ticket. I got to take you down to the police station. And I said, well, can't you write the ticket out?
No, I have to.
So he's very aggressive talking to me. I feel like he wants money to be paid off. And I said, he said, what are you doing down here? I said, I was at a pastor's conference. Why a pastor's conference?
I'm a pastor in Chicago. He looks at me and says, What does Romans 13 say? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, excuse me?
He says, What does Romans 13 say in Spanish? And I thought, good thing you speak Spanish. I know. Yeah. So first of all, two things go through my mind.
What in the world does Romans 13 say? Just because I'm a pastor doesn't mean I've memorized the whole Bible. And secondly, this is not like a WANA. I don't get a sticker. I go to jail if I don't know what Romans 13 says.
So I'm like, well, Romans 12 says, don't be conformed. He said, Romans 13. And I'm like, what does Roman? And then it struck me. It says, submit yourself to the governing authorities as though they were servants of God.
As soon as I said that, he took his sunglasses off, took his hand off his pistol, and started addressing me as Pastor. And he just changed and he said, I'm not going to give you a ticket.
So, Pastor, be careful, go slower. And I'm like, what just happened? Then he pulls up next to me and he says, Hey, Pastor, pray for the police department in Tijuana. We really need it. And then he takes off.
I'm like, whoa, what just happened there? But, you know. It reminds me that we're all on a journey. Our journey can be hijacked. And ultimately, we need to know the word of God because our journey is going to be hijacked by a lot of things that we don't understand.
And ultimately, it may not be a police asking you what Romans 13 says, but it's the word of God ultimately that's going to get us where we need to go. We need to know the word of God and we need to depend on the word of God. And that's just a very strong example of knowing the word of God. Dan read me that story. Yeah.
You know, we're reading through your book and preparing for you guys coming in and we were driving in the car and she read it. You actually knew like. And I go, Romans 13, obeys civil authorities. And I hadn't heard the rest of the thing. And I'm like, is that where this guy's going?
And it was, but your application of it is so powerful. Because as you read it just now, or as you recounted, Mark, I thought, there's a guy. And I'm sure there's a woman, a husband, a wife. Who their bold step is, I need to be the husband that I know God's called me to be, or I need to be the wife. I haven't been.
And in some ways, we feel like we're defeated. I messed up, I've been messing up for years. I don't know how to break the cycle. Yeah, and it's you're right. It's you got to decide right here, right now.
You're listening to this program today, I think, because God said, I want you to hear this. Your bold step, you need to take. We started saying, if you want to change your life, you got to take a step. It can't be somebody else taking the step. I always used to say, man, you hear the story up on stage and you're like, I want that story.
You can't have it. It's their person's story because they took a step. And so today, the step is, I think what you just said, Mark, I'm going to surrender, re-surrender, and say, I'm going to become the man of the word or woman of the word I need to be. God, meet me there, fill me, and make me the man. I want to be a cycle breaker.
And you can be with God's power, right? 100%. And I believe, Dave, that God. Uses divine appointments, and someone's listening to this broadcast right now, whether it's on the radio, whether you're online, you're listening to it. But that the Holy Spirit is speaking to you.
Maybe. You look at your past and say, it's not what I wanted, but I am repeating the cycle over. And maybe you've been discouraged about it. God wants to let you know. That there is hope and that you can break the cycle.
And it's not a time to escape. To blame? But it's a time to say, This is a problem in my life. You have the power to affect, I believe, generations to come. But it starts with a decision, a bold decision to say, This will not continue on my watch.
Will you pray for them that they will take that step? Absolutely. Father, we pause right now. I pray for that woman that's hearing, and tears are coming to her eyes because she realizes that she is repeating that cycle and hates it, but has felt Powerless. I pray for that man, God, that you have called to lead his household, but he's letting chaos reign in his household, his own addictions to sabotage the very thing that you're trying to create, Father.
And I pray in Jesus' name right now. That whoever's listening would speak out the cycle that they're trying to break: addiction, infidelity, alcoholism, bitterness, anger, abusive words, whatever it is, God, I pray that they would just say it right now. Just say it. What is that cycle? Give them the boldness and the power.
To say, now what is the step of obedience that God is asking me to take? I refuse to pass it on to my children and grandchildren, and I surrender it to God, Jesus. I pray that your power, that power that rose Jesus from the dead, that is active in us today, that same resurrection power that you would give them the boldness to obey now. and to speak out the step that they're going to take, God. And that they would do so and break a cycle and create a legacy.
I pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Uh I loved having Mark and Dee Job with us. Again, Mark's book is called What Now? How to Move Into Your Next Season.
And you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. We would love to pray for you. I would personally love to pray for you. And we even have a team at Family Life that can pray for you. Just go to familylife.com/slash pray for me.
Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
