Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want, as usual, you can give me a call. It is easy. All you have to do is dial 877-2072276.

And we can get to your call. Nobody waiting right now. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. And also, you can send an email.

That's easy to do. Just send an email to info at carm.org. Info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. Put in the subject line, radio comments or radio questions, one of those, and we can get to those. We did a few of them this past week.

It's been a slow week, you know, every now and then that happens. Where we just get a slow week and the callers aren't coming in all that much.

Sometimes we have more than we can handle. And uh I like it. We have more than we can handle. It's good. Unless sometimes I really get into some teaching m modes and stuff like that.

All right, so so like I said, uh give me a call if you want, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. If by any chance you're a newbie, one both the show is about, I do this about every two, three weeks. I'll just mention that This is a Christian apologetic show. Apologetics is the defense of the Christian faith. And so that's what I'm doing: I defend the Christian faith.

I've been doing that for many years, about 46 actually. They have a website, carm.org, c-ar-r-m dot o-r-g. And you can go there and check it out. It's had over 160 million visitors. I've written 5,000 articles there.

And the show's name is Matt Slick Live. And what the reason is. Because my real name, Matt Slick. Slick is my real name. I learned how to run as a kid because of that name.

Okay, now um So here's something interesting. Last night I was on Discord and I was uh I got into a verbal fisticuffs. with an Eastern Orthodox guy. And let's just say he didn't like what I was saying. I don't know why he didn't like what I was saying when I called him an idolater.

I don't know what's so upsetting about that, you know, is Said him an idolater, and he got bent pretty badly about that. And I kept saying it, you're an idolater. And I thought it was nice enough. You know, what do you think? That's nice enough.

And so he took umbrage with that and tried to tell me that um that I was a liar and thinks He was so desperate. It was really bad. And when it was my turn to grill him, suddenly he had to go. And so, you know, of course.

Well, anyway, so I've done some research on what idolatry is. And one of the points he brought up, which I think is interesting. is uh The idea that early churches Uh did They did icons. He says they were doing icons for the second and third century. I said, I said, yeah, second and third century, not a problem.

And He assumed as proof that icons were practised by the apostles. Of course it was not. Nothing in the Bible says to do this. In fact, anything in the Bible, if at all, it says not to do it in Exodus 24. 20 verses 4 and 5, and also Leviticus 26:1 says not to do that, not to have any icons, not to have any images, you don't bow down before them, don't make them for yourself, and things like that.

And um So I he started saying that the early church all did this, and I quoted where church fathers said, No, that don't do this. Of course, that doesn't fit his scenario, so he ignored that kind of stuff and then started calling me names like I was a liar, stuff like that.

Well, I started doing research, and I got two articles I'm developing out of this, this interaction last night. and more than two articles, but um I got some interesting stuff. And one of the things I started researching. was uh early church Practices Using Art. Is art the same thing?

as an icon.

So the Church used art.

Now, when I was in our last tour in Europe, We went to, I think it was in, where was that? It was in Greece. We went to the catacombs. Was that Greece or was that Italy? Yeah.

It was Rome. That's right, I was outside of Rome. And so, a friend of mine, Dave Kimball, is here. We went on the trip together, and he's in the office here with me.

So we went into the catacombs and I remember seeing a few things there, if I remember correctly, just some images, just and symbols that were carved into some of the rocks in the catacombs. And What occurred to me Is that What this guy does, what other Eastern Orthodox people do, is say that any image. That is carved into stone. uh like a like for example the whale. Which Jonah, you know, Jonah and the whale, which is a symbol of representation of Christ being buried and resurrected.

they use that, they s they assuming it's something like that. would automatically mean that used them in worship services and bowed before them. This is the assumption that this guy's made, and of course it's not. And so I did some research and I've got a lot of information I gathered this morning. I need to spend an hour or two putting it in proper order and quoting stuff.

I even found An official Russian Orthodox source. that admitted that uh The issue of these icons were not the practice of the early church. It says icons painted on wooden panels in tempera, excuse me, on ivory ground or executed in the I gotta learn these words encaustic technique. Became widespread in the post-Constantinian period in the early Byzantine church.

However, there were few icons.

So what this is saying is from an official EO type source is that no, they weren't doing this, they weren't practicing using these images to bow down before.

Now, that's really simple. One of the things that people will do is they'll say to me, Well, Matt, Look, uh You know, God commanded that the cherubim be constructed on the mercy seat on the over the Ark of the Covenant. And so That's an image. God created images. Jesus is an image.

And so you could bow down before Jesus as an image. Oh, my goodness, the lengths they go to to justify their idolatry. But let me. Let me go to Leviticus 26. It says something very interesting, Leviticus 26, verse 1.

You shall not make for yourselves idols. I'm gonna read the rest of it. But notice it says not for yourselves. You don't do it for yourselves. When God says, make the angels, put them over the cherubim, the wings almost touching over the.

the Ark of the Covenant, or embroider the veil with certain images that are representative of the glory of God, the majesty of God around his throne. That's different than you shall not make for yourselves Idols, nor shall you put up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, or nor shall you place a figurestone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God.

So God says, Hey. This is the slick version. Don't do that. Yeah. And so, why is that?

Why is it that God says that? Let's go to Exodus 20, verse 4. You shall not make for yourself. Is Ten Commandments. You shall not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

You shall not worship them or serve them. I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, etc.

So God forbids the making of idols, anything in likeness of what's heaven above or on the earth beneath. That you would bow down to them because that's the context of what it says. You said, not worship them or serve them. And yet, when the first Eastern Orthodox church I ever went into was literally in Thessalonica, out of the Thessalonians. And And we went in there.

You remember that, right, Dave? And so, because he was there with, and I remember that it was the first one I'd ever been into my entire life. I've researched EO, but hadn't really gone to an EO church because I'm in Boise, Idaho. You know, an EO church here is probably, you know, just a cargo box, you know, with people in it.

So There, however, these ancient, these really old, hundreds of years old churches, and I went in. And to the right was a gigantic icon thing of Mary. To the left was a coffin and candles. You go down this little bitty. Just not a hallway, but just a little movement into the main area.

And in the front of the area, where the altar was up at the front, was. An altar. Were you going to have? Um offerings. And in that Off in that area that um There was a lot of gold and a lot of silver.

I remember that. I remember the gold and silver. Do you remember the gold and silver, Dave? Yeah, he's nodding. And so, the reason this is important is because of a lot of things I'm going to put together here.

When we go to Matthew chapter 10. It says in verse 1: Jesus summoned his twelve disciples, gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. He named the twelve disciples. And in he says In verse 8, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. That's in verse 8.

Now, A side note. The Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church both claim that they, Have the official descendancy from the apostles through the laying on of hands, and they have apostolic authority. Yet they contradict each other in a lot of important doctrines. And yet both of them If they have that authority, Well, are they healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers? Are they doing that?

I don't see them doing that.

Now you might get these stories.

Well, Pope so-and-so or Cardinal so-and-so or priest so-and-so did it once. 400 years ago. See, we're doing it. Our church is true. And uh It wasn't the case that the disciples did this like once a year, but they were out there doing it all the time.

If they have the same apostolic authority as the original disciples, then why aren't they doing it the same way? They're not. Which means they don't have apostolic authority.

Okay, having done that side note, the reason I was really bringing this up is. After it says that in Matthew 10, when Jesus gives the authority to the disciples, he says, Do not acquire gold or silver or copper for your money belts. or a bag for your journey, or even two coats or sandals or a staff, for the workers worthy of his support.

So When you go into these churches, We went into more than one on our trip. A 19-day trip was a great trip. Three different countries. We went into Turkey and then Greece and Italy. But I noticed in these churches a lot of gold, a lot of silver.

A lot of the stuff that the Bible says don't gather for yourself.

Now, I've had some EORC, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, say, it doesn't mean you can't do it in the church, it's just not for yourselves. And so They missed the point. They missed the point. It's not that, oh, well, the priest Bob is he can't have any gold or silver, but we can certainly have it all over the church. We can gather all kinds of gold and silver, but it's not for an individual.

But they have apostolic authority, but it's not them owning it, it's for the church.

So, therefore, it's okay. And this is. reminiscent of what the Jews would do. back in the Old Testament.

So the law was: you shall not work the land on the seventh year. Let it stay. Follow. Let it just be what it is. Let nature have it for one year.

Well, of course, that means you had to have extra food and preparation for the six years to prepare for that seventh.

So, what would they do? to get around that.

sometimes the Jews would sell the land out to somebody else.

So that that So, how do I just say this? If they sold the land to somebody else for a year, they could work that seventh year, that other person could, but they weren't doing it themselves.

So therefore they weren't working the land. for seven years. They were only doing it for six years.

Someone else was doing it for seven. They got part of the cut. In other words, What they would do is miss the spirit of what's going on by finding a detail that they could slip in their error through. And that's what the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches are doing. Don't acquire gold or silver.

And when we went to the Vatican, I'm going to just tell you flat out, I've told this before over the radio. The Vatican is impressive. I developed a new measurement. And it was wows per minute. And it only happened in the Vatican, never any place else where you turn the corner, wow, look at that, wow, look at this, wow, look at that.

so much. Wealth. Gathered to itself. in the Vatican. Hey folks, there's the music.

I got to go for the break. If you want to give me a call, 877-20722. Seven, six, three. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. Like I said, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. you can give me a call and we can blab. Let's get to Oscar from New York. Oscar, welcome.

You're on the air. Yes, sir. Thank you. I noticed many churches speaking in tongues. I don't feel comfortable.

I don't understand what they're saying. Oh, that'd be dangerous. They might be cursing.

Well, you don't understand what they're saying when they speak in tongues because it's in tongues.

So now the question then becomes Is it okay to speak in tongues in church?

Now, there are people who will say that all the charismatic gifts have ceased. There are people who will say they have not all ceased. I'm on the side of they've not all ceased. Therefore these things still happen.

Now I've had experiences where personal experiences where it's happened. But I don't make doctrine out of experience, I make it out of scripture, and that's a whole nother discussion.

So can someone speak in tongues in a church? Yes, they can. Ought they?

Well, that's the difference.

So, is it possible that God can cause someone to speak in a language they don't understand but somebody else does? Sure. is documented in the book Brutzko. which is a whole nother thing. And Okay.

It's a missionary context, by the way. Bruchko's interesting book. And so, um If there's an opportunity in a church where someone wants to speak in tongues, then I would say. From what I understand, I think of 1 Corinthians 14, it needs to be done in order. And I would suggest that if something like that were to happen, that it not happened on a Sunday.

Because a Sunday service is for instruction. That's not to say it can't happen on a Sunday. It depends on the church and the situation. Because some cultures are more adept at moving that way than others in different situations. And not all church services need to be the American style where it's uh you know twenty minutes of worship, announcements, half hour sermon, one song, you go home.

Sometimes the church services can be hours long where the singing is an hour and a half. And I know my my late wife This is what she experienced when she went and did mission work in Togo. and they would bring up their tithes for an hour. They would sing and they'd bring up chickens or fruit or whatever they had, and that was their tithing. And so.

in a situation like that, what if someone got up And during that period of time, the tithing is occurring for an hour to an hour and 20 minutes. where someone would speak in a different language and someone else might interpret. In that situation, I don't see that being a problem. During a ch the sermon speaking, I don't think that would be appropriate. Because the Generally speaking, it wouldn't be appropriate unless it's something very specific that is moving by the Spirit of God in concert with the preaching of the Word.

Some people think that, well, no, you can't do that because it's out of order.

Well, not necessarily. We have to be careful that we don't. Create in our mind a style and church liturgy, even as Protestants, that can't be. Violated because it's a sacred system. We don't want to do that.

God is certainly capable of working in different situations at different times. To do things. But normally speaking, we want things done in order. And I would say that if a church wants to do something like that, to allow it during the week, where people who are gifted in that area can come and do that, it must be judged by the elders. It needs to be done very orderly and with great care.

So that's There's you go, there's a lot of information.

Okay. Oh, okay, okay, thank you, thank you, okay, bye-bye. Mm-hmm.

Okay, Oscar. God bless.

Okay. So Oscar calls every now and then, and he's got a question. And what's interesting about Oscar is he says, thank you, and then he's gone. No more comments. I guess he's got the answer, and that's it.

He's good. All right, let me get back to the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic stuff. You're welcome to give me a call if you're in those groups, but I'm going to just tell you flat out. The Roman Catholic Church is not true Christianity. It's an apostate, false religious system, a false gospel, false priesthood, and it promotes idolatry.

And the same thing with the Eastern Orthodox Church. And I will die on that hill. I will. I believe they are false doctrines and they are false churches, and that all who believe they're official. doctrines official are not Christians and they are under judgment.

That's not to say there aren't some Christians in there. They're not to say there aren't some true believers. But they're in there in spite of what the true doctrines are in those churches. I don't say this lightly. I say this after many years of experience, many years of studying the scriptures, many years of talking to Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, many years of researching their doctrines.

I have quotes from their sources. My word document on Roman Catholicism is 260. Plus pages and the one on Eastern Orthodox about 210 I think pages plus. I'd be 110 pages plus. I don't know, maybe it's 200.

No, it's 210, that's right. And so I'm just saying I do a lot of research. It doesn't mean I'm right, but nevertheless, having said all of that. In light of this, One of the comments I've made to the EORC, the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics.

So one of the comments I've made is Just because a church Or in history, certain people do certain things, or church practice this or that. doesn't mean it's true. It doesn't mean it's true. And one of the areas I will go to to prove that. is 2 Thessalonians 2.

And in Second Thessalonians two, Paul is talking in rebuke. to the Thessalonian church. Where they were getting it wrong about the return of Jesus. And Paul says, Don't you remember while I was with you, I was telling you these things. And I saw 2 Thessalonians 2, verse 5.

Now, the reason I'm bringing this up is. The EO and the RC will tell us that the early church did what they did and what they do now. Therefore, their church is true. But the rejoinder is or the response to this is simple. The Thessalonian church fell into apostasy as far as that doctrine goes.

Very quickly, what makes you think that your church? hasn't done the same thing. That's just a a thought question, all right?

Well, I started doing some research on other areas of this. And I'm going to write an article. I've got the substance of it already written. I just have to go through and polish it and arrange it and solidify it. I have to slickify it, make sure that it's smooth and um and flows.

In 2 Timothy 1:15, it says all of Asia turned away from what Paul was teaching. In Galatians 1.6, Paul talks about those who have fallen for a different gospel. And notice these are Problems that are occurring while the apostles are still alive, the Christian church is messing up. And the EO and the RC say they go to church history and they do what they do.

Now they do what they did in the early church, so therefore they're true. They're the true church, because that's what the true church did. But the true church, while the apostles were around. We're moving into apostasy. What makes you think?

That you're getting it right now. That's the question I ask them. And here's another one. In 2 Timothy 2, 17 and 18, There was the issue of the resurrection. They were denying the resurrection.

People, Hymenaeus and Philetus, were doing this. They were inside the church teaching this. And then also it says that they were shipwrecking their faith. This is when the time of Paul when he's writing to Timothy. And then in 1 Corinthians 2.11.

Paul warns the Corinthians about the Going after another Jesus. The Corinthian church was going into apostasy right away. And then in 1 Corinthians 1.15, there were those who were denying the resurrection. And then, like I said, 2 Thessalonians 2, about Jesus already having returned. And there's more.

I got more were out of time because of the break. But The New Testament was written largely to correct the error the Christian church was falling into right away. Why do the apostolic-style churches go with what the early church was doing when they were getting it wrong so quickly? Use the scriptures, not history, for truth. Will you like that?

Yeah. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. We're at the bottom of the hour.

If you, if you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. And I want to hear from him and give me a call. You can also, if you're interested, sending me an email is easy. Just direct an email to info at carm.org and put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question.

We put them into a folder, and then when we get slow on the radio, sometimes I just jump in and tackle those as well. We have three open lines. Martin is waiting, but three open lines: 877-207-2276. Martin, you're on the air. Hey, Matt.

Thank you again for your ministry. It's been many months since I've called, but I'm a many. Many year caller, and I want to give you my condolences about your wife and your loss. My heart's out there for you, and some prayers are away. I appreciate that.

In fact, it was t three months ago today. Oh boy, okay. I hope you're doing good, buddy. I am. It Any losses is tough, but you know what?

The Lord set the path for us and and you know, It kind of opens our eyes to certain things, and it gets stay in touch with the Lord, and you're on the right path. I just look at it this way. She's in heaven and she's not giving me the half eyelid stare, rubbing her forehead. at the same time.

So she's doing fine. But by God's grace, so anyway. But thanks, appreciate it.

Okay. Do you I heard you say something about the orthodox. Catholicism and Orthodox Church about It it sort of felt like you you broke the path of Legitimacy because they're not healing the dead, you know, raising the dead or healing the lame or the lepers. But that's kind of a a fallacy because You know, nor are we.

So if you say that they're not doing it and they're not legit, But we're not doing it. And we're legit. it kind of it kind of loses that correlation.

So I was hoping we can kind of clean that up. The issue that they are asserting is that they have apostolic authority in their priesthood. That's the key. Their priests, which are not biblical, New Testament biblical, you don't find these priests in there.

So, what they're saying. Is that they have an apostolic line succession by the laying on of hands from Peter and/or the disciples down through the present? That's why they have apostolic authority. It's not for the clerk, for the congregation, it's for the office of the priesthood holder. Because they're the ones who have that apostolic succession.

And so that's why if that's the case. Yes.

Someone just. ran a red light up here and I've got to jump out.

Okay. Okay. I apologize.

Okay. All right. Thank you so much, Matt. All right. Mm-hmm.

Huh, I wonder if he's a cop. He said, If someone ran a line, he's got to jump out.

So I guess he's a cop. How about that? Because if I'd have known, I'd have said, Hey, thanks for being a cop. That's what I do. I thank cops for being cops.

I really do. And I've done it hundreds of times over the years and years. I'd meet cops and I'll say, Hey, just want to say thanks for being a cop. You know, you guys don't get enough credit. I just want to say thank you.

I really appreciate it. And they go, Man, that's really nice. Thank you. And I said, Just remember that when you're chasing me later. And uh they laugh and then we have a good time.

So one guy, one cop goes, Well, I wouldn't chase you, I would just radio on a head. I went, Darn. And the other guy says, Well, a taser works. And I go, Oh man. And so They're they're good guys, and uh yeah, I just appreciate 'em.

All right, let's get to Mick from Utah. Mick, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how are you? Real quick, I um I got some questions.

I am Eastern Orthodox.

However, I'm born-again Christian. happened to me later in my life and in my late twenties. I do have some questions for you. First of all, I speak pretty good Greek, but it's modern Greek, not ancient. And I I did in a thing with with tongues.

In Greek, you ask somebody Tigrolos amilas, what language do you speak? It doesn't mean what tongue do you speak, but it also means language. when I saw that, you know, in the Bible, that they smoke Different tongues, well, they were speaking different languages. It doesn't necessarily mean this gibberish that I hear from some people, and they claim they're speaking some.

Some weird holy thing. And even Paul says, if nobody can understand it, what good is it? And if you don't have someone that can interpret it, again, what good is it? Why are you doing it? Right.

So I take kind of a. An offense with tongues because I don't think people understand it. The gibberish stuff that people do rattle off, I don't truly believe that's coming from God. I think it's just.

Some weird jiggers, and that's my opinion on that. I agree with you. I agree with you. Yeah. But real ones can happen, but a lot of the Protestant churches are full of just.

Like you said, gibberish. It's true.

Okay. As for icons, when I was younger, I used to ask about the icons and we'd go to church and you do your cross and you kiss them. And I never really was comfortable with that. And then You know, after you read the Bible and you say, and you look at the Ten Commandments, anything you make is idolatrous. I I asked about it to one of the priests, and the priest told me, you know, you don't pray to this icon.

It's really just telling a story in the Bible. And if you look at our icons in the Eastern Orthodox Church, They're usually telling a story, whether it's Jesus' baptism or his resurrection or the nativity. I mean, if you look at it as people back then, we're talking in the time of Christ. Many were illiterate.

So, they had to do picture stuff so people could understand them.

Now, I realize that some. Fools, I call them. Think that these are some kind of magic power. No, they're just. They're just an icon.

It's telling a story of, and it's usually a biblical story of some sort. You're not to get on your knees to it, you aren't to kiss it or venerate it. you can appreciate it, but it's that's all it is. It's just A picture, it's a story, and that's how I always have looked at icons. I never thought of them as being something.

You know, magical or anything like that. When you mentioned the church that you went into in Thessaloniki. Let me respond to some of the stuff you're saying, okay? Sure, go ahead. Go ahead, sir.

Because. Because that's not how it's perceived, that's not how it is. And Let let me just uh here let me just read some stuff here.

So this is from The Confessions of Docetheus from sixteen seventy two, question four. It says, We adore and honor and kiss the icons of our Lord Jesus Christ. And of the most holy Theotokos. And of all the saints also of the holy angels.

Now that's an official document from the EO, and it says kissing these icons of Jesus, Mary, the saints, and angels.

So you said they don't kiss, but they do. That's what it's told it to.

Well, yeah, they do, and I disagree with it. I don't think they should. I think it's just looked at as just a picture. If it's just a picture, that's okay. But it also says this in uh this is Orthodox Churchin America.org.

beholding the streams of wonders which pour forth from thy holy icon. O Blessed Mother of God. Thou art the good helper of them that pray, the support of the oppressed, the hope of the hopeless, the consolation of them that grieve, the nourishment of the hungry. It goes on and on.

Well, I disagree with that. I don't believe in magic talismans. That's superstition.

Well, good for you. In my view.

Well, let me ask you another question. I don't see it that way.

Well, okay, sure. I'm glad you do. Let me ask you this.

So are you you know what justification is? We are justified through Christ. You know what it is, what is justification? I don't know. Give me your, what do you call it?

The Bible says in Romans 4:3, and Abraham believed God, it was credited to him as righteousness. And verse 5: To the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So justification is the crediting of righteousness. That's what it is. Like what the Bible says, okay?

So What if I were to read you verses that show from the Eastern Orthodox churches that justification is attained by faith in works? Then what? Then I would be in disagreement with that because Jesus said he is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes unto the Father except by him. John 14.

So there. I have a lot, you know, the praying to the Seal Tokos, which I got to break that up. I don't know what Tolkos means. Seo means God. I don't know what the Tolkos part means.

God-bearer. I've got to do some God-bearer that they say they can talk to Mary because she bore God. But you see, trust me, I went to a Bible study, and I got into one with some of the people there because. You know, pray to Mary. I go, Why would you pray to Mary?

I go if it if Mary was who was the Savior, then she'd be the Savior. It wouldn't be Jesus. Why would I waste my time praying to Mary? Mary's his mom. That's all.

I agree with you. In fact, I go, if you really want to know, she goes, oh, you know, you pray to Mary because you go through, you get to Jesus through Mary. I go, no, that's not. I don't believe that. And I go, and if you look at the first.

uh miracle w uh at uh in Canaan Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's get back on top. He didn't answer her very nicely. He actually talked to her in kind of a rude tone. Yeah, he rebuked her.

Yeah, it was a subtle rebuke.

Okay?

So, Docitheus, Decree 3 and 13, oh, we got a break. Hold on, Mick, because I'm going to show you something, and then I want to ask you.

something That's important. Can you hold on? All right, brother. Sure. Hey, folks, we write back after these messages.

Nick is interesting as an Eastern Orthodox person. We write back, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Mick. Are you still there? Yeah. All right.

Hey, by the way, I I'm in Idaho and I sometimes go down to uh Salt Lake City area, Utah, and uh visit a friend of mine in Sandy. If you're in the area, if you ever wanted to, we could meet and talk if you if that sounds good. Hey, I one time you were up in Logan and I was gonna come up and listen to you up there and there was a big accident. I ended up having to turn around and go back. I couldn't make it up there, but uh that was maybe a year or two ago.

Yeah, I had a debate. Yeah, I would I would like to meet you. I think it would be I would really enjoy that.

Well, you should send me your contact information on info at Carm dot org 'cause I was actually thinking about going down to see uh my friends down there in the next week or two or something like that or three, depending. Uh 'cause uh just anyway, just thinking about it, but I don't know. If they I have to see if they want me, if they they can tolerate me 'cause once a year is bug all it'll handle. 'Cause you know, 'cause I'm I'm uh Yeah.

Okay, so hey, look, okay, now I'm gonna read you something, okay? And we, we, I've shown you from scripture. that justification is being credited righteousness.

Okay. And I want to read something else to you. This is what Paul the Apostle says in Philippians 3:9. And may be found in him not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law, but. that which is through faith in Jesus.

the righteousness which comes from God. on the basis of faith. In Romans 4.5, To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, His faith is credited as righteousness.

So the Bible teaches justification by faith alone, right? Mm-hmm.

If someone contradicts that, would that be a false gospel? Yeah. Okay. If it's teaching a false gospel, You shouldn't go to that church if they taught if they taught a f false gospel, right? Yeah, you know, I don't know if you've ever been to a Greek Orthodox church.

I have many of them are. They go. They speak a lot of the times in ancient Greek, and they use the. The Liturgy of St. John Risostema.

Which I don't know. That guy his literature bores me into tears. But anyway, uh. Let's get back into this, okay? If you're listening to it in ancient Greek, I guarantee you you're not getting it.

It's a wonder I became born again. I don't know how you get, although I do know some born-again Christians in our church. And and I I believe they truly are. But here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Let me read this to you, okay? This is from Docitheus, Decree thirteen. We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith and works. or decree three For thus Scripture would be opposed to itself since it promises the believer salvation through works.

Or Um in Mogilla. Mogilla, part one. Magilla was in sixteen forty two. That an and in that day every one shall receive a full and everlasting reward according to his merit.

Some receiving this sentence, Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you. and others you are cursed into everlasting fire.

So your merit gets you heaven or hell.

Now Am I misquoting, didn't Jesus say your works are as filthy rags? No, that's not. No, he didn't say that, but uh it was that Isaiah 64, 6 says that.

So Is are those false gospels that I'm reading, are they false?

Well If you went by that, and that's how you'll answer that, but I do have a question after it because there's a but. Yes, false gospel, teaching it incorrectly, that would be a false gospel. But my question to you is this. In the early days, we're talking after Christ, I don't know what religion was going on. Maybe it was remnants of Eastern or the beginnings of Eastern Orthodox slash the beginnings of Catholicism.

How was Christianity able to Even propagate from that point I mean, we do have Christianity today. But it didn't come from Protestantism at the time because there was no Protestantism. Yes, there was. It had to have something that whatever they were teaching in the early days. Hey, hold on, hold on.

Hold on. that the point is the East Orthodox Church's teaching of false gospel. That's the point.

Now here's a question for you. If it's teaching a false gospel, why are you going there? Culturally Okay.

Well, doesn't Jesus say you must abandon your father, your mother, your children for the sake of me? And that he doesn't mention culture, but it fits right in there. Abandon your culture. Yeah, I understand.

So why are you going to a church that teaches a false gospel? If it's a false gospel, it's not a true church. It's not of God. Why would you be going there? Maybe tithing, maybe supporting it.

When it's teaching a false gospel. And we haven't even gotten into the priesthood, nor have we gotten into its idolatry and the icons.

So y you you're you're a very different Eastern Orthodox person.

Well, I'm kind of an infiltrator or Eastern Orthodox person because I also do teach people this when I'm telling you, I'm telling them you can't go just buy this. You can't go just by the liturgy and all that stuff. It's not going to, you're not going to get it. You got to go by. You know, John 3:3, except that a man be born again, he cannot see the Yeah.

But what does that mean, born again? Not by baptism. But if you are in there teaching what you're telling me you're teaching, that's good. But you have to understand, it is teaching a false gospel. And if you were to stay there, you're doing it for the purpose of trying to get the true gospel out to people.

That means you have to go against what the Eastern Orthodox Church is teaching. And this is only the beginning of the stuff I have discovered. But my question still is this: How did the church, how was it able to continue? Because probably Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox was The religion at the time. How did Christianity.

continue because that's all there was back in the early days. Who now what were they? No, no, no, no, no, wait, no, you're making a mistake. You're assuming that the way the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church is, that's how it really was back then. No.

Not at all. They're telling you these things, but it's not the case. If you were to go to my website, for example, and you were to look up the Church Fathers, you'll find out that very early on they contradicted each other all over the place. There's no unanimous anything. But how was the Christian fed?

You don't need a church, you need Jesus.

Now, of course, they would get the preaching of the teaching from the Apostles, from the Word, and the copies of the documents would be distributed around the Mediterranean area, and people would go to hear the preaching of the Word. Don't assume that's an Orthodox Church or a Roman Catholic Church. Because they're false churches. I have to say, they're false shit. You're saying as the years went by, it morphed into this.

Yes.

False church. The icon adoration didn't even occur or start or being official until roughly the six and seven hundreds.

Okay. Literally doing research on this lately, on this very topic. and finding quotes and finding stuff Even from Russian Orthodox sources, saying, yeah, that's the case.

So you gotta understand The Eastern Orthodox Church is teaching a false gospel. I read you the documents from their source, and you agree it's false. And so, if you're there to minister to people to get them saved by preaching the true gospel, okay, I get that. Not a problem. But you have to also understand It's teaching a false gospel, therefore it's not a true Christian church.

That's just so you know. And then there's the issue of baptism. Then there's the issue of theosis. Then there's the issue of their priesthood and their altar. Have you looked in the Bible to see if.

There's a If there's a a priest described in the New Testament where a priest gets up in a church building church service, And where there's an altar in a church where he represents a sacrifice that cleanses you of your sins. It is not in the New Testament. but it is found in the Old Testament. I was going to ask you a quick question. I don't know how much time we've got left of that time.

Yeah, I guess barely. C communion. I don't believe that it turns into actual Jesus' blood, actual Jesus' body. I just, that's ludicrous, and I don't think Jesus wanted us to be correct. To be cannibals.

I don't get that into when he's talking to the apostles during the Last Supper. I don't get any of that, how they turn that into that. I don't get it. But what was Jesus asking He said, Remember me when you do this.

So is it a sacrament? Is it something that we should do often in remembrance of Christ? Is the communion? Because I don't believe in the transfiguration craft. You mean not transfiguration, the transfer?

Transubstantiation. Transubstation.

So, yeah, we should do that regularly. But you asked a double-edged question, so I'm not sure which point I wanted to say a correction on, so I forgot. But uh You're right in that it's not the actual body and blood, but the Orthodox Church A to Z. says the mystery or sacraments under which the bread and wine become the very body and blood of Christ. It's what it says.

Introduced in the Orthodox Church, it says the sacrament by which Christ unites himself with us today. The bread and wine become the very body and blood of Christ, the complete book of orthodoxy by George W. Groobe. I mean I've got quotes. And you're right.

So now what they're doing is they're violating Scripture in that.

So they're violating the gospel, they're violating the issue of the Eucharist, of the supper. They're violating the the issue of the priesthood. and they're promoting uh i idolatry. What are they trying to achieve? I don't get it.

I mean, I know it isn't, but let's say it was Christ's body and blood. What are you achieving? Where did you just say to eat him? I don't get that. Where do you get that?

It's sacerdotalism. What that means is the priesthood has been has an official power Authority from God to distribute grace from God and/or the saints to the people through the instruments of the Eucharist and other things. That's what they're saying.

Well, that that's ridiculous. I had a class at the U. It was Christianity i in the ancient world. And the priest the priest. Actually, I thought he was LDS, but he ended up he was he was Roman Catholic.

And I made some remarks and didn't care for him. And that's the only reason I didn't graduate summa cum laude is because he gave me a B. But uh and the reason was Well, two reasons. One was o over origin. Origin supposedly cut off his His genitals because, you know, if you And I go, why would he do that?

I go, why would he do that? And he goes, why not? And I go, I can think of a lot of reasons. And everybody started laughing, and he didn't appreciate that. And the other thing was I told him that the only reason in in the Roman Catholics The senators became cardinals and bishops and priests and whatnot because they were losing their power.

They did it for a power thing. Maybe some of them were converted, but I would say the vast majority of them turned from the senate ship to for political reasons. They just wanted the power. He didn't appreciate that remark either, so I got raids for that. Yeah, it's true.

But look, man, the music's going to start in 10 seconds. We've got to get going, okay?

So all right, no problem.

Alright, but uh We should talk more. All right?

Okay, sir. When you're, you know, mention it on your show when you're coming out here. I'm like, okay. Take the swing away.

Okay, well thank you Matt. All right, hey, God bless. And by the way, everybody, there you go, the end of the show. The music's going, which means I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you.

And by his grace, we'll be back on the air tomorrow. Hopefully, we'll talk to you then. Hopefully, that was a good conversation and if we come. and that you were blessed in it. May the Lord bless you.

So God bless everybody. Good night. Another program powered by the Truth Network.