Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and here listen to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, it is easy, as usual, 8772072276. All right, got a little bit of interesting stuff to talk about, a little bit, but just a reminder: I'll be in Texas Thursday. Friday for debate.

I'll be in. debating a Muslim. There's going to be uh several people debating on different topics. And it's going to be a good thing. A lot of fun.

I'll be there two guys, two days with the guys. And A bunch of apologists, you know, just doing what we got to do. All right, so also, if you want to email me, you can do that. Just send an email to info at carm.org, info at C-A-R-M dot O R G. Put in the subject line, radio comment or radio question, one of those, and usually we get to those.

On there.

Sometimes we do them on Fridays and things like that because Fridays are often slow, just how it is. And there you go.

Now.

Alright, just uh let's see. I'm gonna open up a file. And I'm gonna go through some stuff. That I was talking to. There we go.

Talking to a guy last night. And it was a great conversation, good conversation. He. Is thinking about joining the Eastern Orthodox Church. He was thinking about it.

We talked about an hour. And um Okay. At least again to think, all right? And what I did was, I talked about different things. I'm going to read to you some of the stuff that I read to him.

some of the quotes from the Eastern Orthodox stuff about Mary. And he was actually shocked. I should say surprised, let's just say, about some of the things that they say. And I was like, yep. That's what it teaches them.

And so, what I'm going to do is get to that. How come it's not going up to the file even when I gap that right there? There we go. And uh I was reading him some stuff.

Now What I was doing was trying to and I want you to hear this trying to point him to Jesus. Yeah.

Now What does Jesus say? Take up your cross daily and follow after me. Jesus says He says he's the way, the truth, and the life.

Okay, no one comes of the Father but by him. Uh Jesus says, Come to me, all who are heavy laden, I will give you rest. These are varying verses that Jesus thinks he says. He points to himself. Why?

He's God. Of course God in flesh is going to point to Himself. That because there's nothing better. Nothing better. And so I was asking this guy, I said, Is the cap, is the Roman, excuse me, the Eastern Orthodox Church.

True. No. Just so you know, the East Orthodox Church is enjoying an increase of people who are going to it. I think it's because of the failure inside of Protestantism. I don't just knock on you know, tip the idols over of Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, but also the Protestant errors, because there are a lot of them.

I got some good coffee here, so sorry about that.

So what I did was And I thought I would do it with you as well. Just read. through some of the stuff about Mary from the Eastern Orthodox position. Maybe, maybe you are considering looking into EO.

Well, my recommendation would be don't.

Now I'm going to show you why. I'm going to show you why. Because What we're going to do here, I'm going to lay some stuff out in the scripture first. Real simple, all right? I'm going to go to Exodus 20.

I'm going to read three things out of God's Word. Then we're going to go to what they teach. Just three things. God's word is the standard.

Now, immediately, what you'll find when you're talking to them is they'll say, Well, you don't believe in sola scriptura.

Sola scriptura means the scriptures are the final authority. It doesn't mean we don't look at councils or traditions or church fathers. It means We justify what the Word of God says. That's all. Mm-hmm.

They don't want to do that. Their authority is their church because their heart is their ecclesiologists. Ecclesia is a Greek word for church. Ecclesia, church, ecclesiologists. church worshipers.

They worship and serve the church.

So Here's what it says in the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20, verse 4: You shall not make for yourself. An idol. Or any likeness of what is in heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the water under the earth, you shall not worship them or serve them, for I am the Lord your God, my jealous God.

So he's saying God himself is saying, don't make idols. about things in heaven and earth. What's an idol? An idol is something used in worship.

Now, I've had some of the Eastern Orthodox Roman Catholics tell me, well, you can have a picture of your wife. That's an idol. No, it's you know, they just don't even think. It just it is being dumb. I said, No, an idol is something used in religious service.

You can hold it, you can carry it, you use it. It's something that you focus on in prayer. You don't do that with a picture of your wife, it's ridiculous. And so that's what it says there in X is 20, verses 4 and 5. I'm going to go to Leviticus 26, verse 1.

You shall not make for yourselves idols. Nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar nor shall you Place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it. For by the Lord your God, the Lord your God. You're not to bow down to these things. You're not to use them.

in worship. What does the Eastern Orthodox Church do? Use them in worship. This is what they do. It's the opposite of what God's word says.

So I'm reading this to the guy, and I said, Well, what do you think? And he goes, Yeah, I can see your point. He wasn't conceding.

Now let's go to 1 Corinthians 2. 4.6 and I said now look this is what God's word says Now, these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn. not to exceed what is written.

So that none of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. Don't exceed what's written. Don't go beyond. What is written in 2 John 9:11, 9 through 11? Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God.

Colossians 2.8 sees to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy, empty deception, according to the tradition of men.

So This is why the Bible says don't exceed what's written. And I'm talking to this guy and I said You can't exceed what God's word says, right? Because it's what's written, it's not oral tradition. It's what's written talking about the scriptures. And he says he Yep, that's right.

I said, good. Here are some of the things the Eastern Orthodox Church has said about Mary.

Now I have this document on my file, I'm looking at it right now, and I've still got to move a lot of this stuff onto the web. and stuff like this. But nevertheless, um So she is called, and this is all from Eastern Orthodox sources. She's called the gate of heaven. Mary is now the gate of heaven.

Uh Theotokos is the god-bearer, so they call her the god-bearer, she or god. And I say, well, it but To Joseph Joseph the stepfather of God? You know, I mean, is he? Is John the Baptist the cousin of God? Is Matthia is he the grandfather of God?

Yeah.

And they have to say yes. Because it's just like ah, geese. Anyway. Uh check this out. Guide me on the paths of salvation, O Theotokos.

That's Mary. for I have polluted my soul with shameful deeds, and wasted all my life in slothfulness. By your intercessions do you deliver me from impurity. This is idolatry. Yeah.

How about this? O pure Theotokos Virgin, who have not known a man, you alone are the guardian and protection of the faithful. You Oh my goodness. Thou alone art the guardian and protection of the faithful. Mary alone is the one who guards and protects the faithful.

Here, I could have sworn it was Jesus. You know, I'm just I'm j just just me. I don't know. She is called a mediator. And I get all these kind of Verses for that.

By her intercessions to deliver me from impurity. Come on.

So also we're told to trust in Mary. O Theotokos, turn not away from me. Who am I? Who from me? Who am in need of thy help?

Sorry about that. For my soul trusts in thee. Ooh, really? Would trust in Mary? No, we trust in Jesus.

O Theotokos, thou protection of all who pray to thee. She's protects now. Oh yeah, wow. Ooh, she's a protector. How about this?

Through Thee we sinners gain salvation. to marry. This is from the Lentian trad uh the Lenten Triodion.

Okay. O most holy virgin, undefiled tabernacle, by the font of your tender mercy, wash me clean of the defilement of wicked passions. What? the font of your tender mercy, wash me clean. Can we say idolatry Well, I can.

Here, ready. Idolatry. Let's see. Um oh, it gets it gets worse. Every Orthodox Christian ought to repeat this salutation with the utmost reverence.

and implored the intercession of the Virgin.

So you have to be sincere. You have to do this. This is Confession of Magilla, 1642, Part 1, Question 42. This is blasphemy. All EO, check this out.

The Orthodox, as it is their duty, ought to praise and reverence as the mother of our Lord Jesus. They ought to do that. Hmm, interesting.

Now this one really good. Uh I read this one to this guy last night. He's like, what? When we reverence the image of the Virgin Mary, now you're reverencing an image. Not Mary through the image, but the image.

When we reverence the image of the Virgin Mary, we ascend in our minds unto the most holy Mother of God. To her it is that we bow down our heads. to her we bend our knees This is blasphemous idolatry. I'm going to say it again: blasphemy. It's great sin.

is idolatry. And this is what's taught. In the East Orthodox Church. Wow. Did you know that the Church rightly extolleth her above the cherubim and seraphim?

For she, far above all the choirs of heavens, is at the right hand of her Son.

Now, where is this in Scripture? It's in the book of Second Hysterectomy.

Okay. Last night I introduced a new book. I said it's First Diarrhea. That's what I was saying. I said, I already get this stuff from.

And uh it's just it's insane, it's ridiculous.

So, uh Oh, and by the way, you must adore Mary while you're standing. It's a stand to do that. That's what they say. How about this one? Desire to produce themes, oh, streams, excuse me, of wonders from thine icon.

Oh.

Okay, the joy of all who sorrow. thou, O lady, didst command the ailing Euphemia To have a molaben served before it, and having received healing, to proclaim to all the mercies bestowed. through this icon Wow. Mercies bestowed through an image. I mean This is Is this idolatry?

It's idolatry. It's exactly what idolatry is. How about this one? Let's see. Okay, you, Mary, are the good helper of them that pray, the support of the oppressed, the hope of the hopeless, the consolation of them that grieve, the nourisher of the hungry, the raiment of the naked, the chastity of virgins, the guide of strangers, the assistance of them that labor, the restoration of sight for the blind, the clear hearing of the deaf, and the healing of the sick.

This is blasphemy. Hey, give me a call and we'll talk about some more blasphemy. Uh 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. I hope you're interested in what I was saying. You know, Um We've got a caller coming in, but I'm going to get to one little bit more here. uh in that um when when I have these discussions with uh with people.

on the web and I start laughing. They think I'm I can't believe this. They think I'm often talking to EO or the RC or the Mormons. They think I'm laughing because I'm nervous or I'm cornered. They don't know.

You don't know that I have some weird, weird thing about heresy. I don't know what it is, but. I get the biggest kick out of it. I'm serious.

Now, I have a friend named Dave, and he has something called something Bilbo or something, where he laughs at inappropriate times. It's an actual condition. And um So he has this condition. He's been diagnosed. It's very, very rare.

And so when things happen that go wrong, he'll sometimes laugh and it's inappropriate and he knows it and he really struggles. And so uh That's what it is. Anyway, the thing is, people have these these issues. I've got one when it comes to heresy. I enjoy heresy.

I'm just so enamored with the stupidity of heresy. you know, saying this stuff about Mary, she can do all this stuff. It's like, are you kidding me? And then look at, that's right. She can she can hear millions of prayers and she can answer them all.

I'm like, whoa, that's awesome. You know, I'll talk like that. Are you serious?

Well, yeah, she can do all that. Where'd you get that? you know, from the as a guy in the uh Chat room says, just here he goes, Yeah, for the book of lostations. Wait. Which I like Lost Asians, which is right next to the book First False Ace.

So we have home of these kind of stuff, and I actually say this kind of things to people when I'm talking to them. They They're not entertained by my humor. You know, where'd you get that? From 1 colostomy? What book of the Bible is that from?

You know, praying to Mary, grace coming through the icons, all this stuff. And. And you know, and like this one, I mean, I'm gonna get to the caller and stuff. We'll change the topic. But here's one more quote: look at this: Rejoice, only mother of loving kindness, rejoice, ready helper of them in misfortunes and temptations.

Rejoice, thou that dost wash away the sorrows of our sins. Like this Yeah. It's blasphemy Mary's washing away the sorrows of our sins. It's just It's incomprehensible. Or as they say in Princess Bright, it's inconceivable.

And so It's just ridiculous. And they can't say when I point it out, you know what they do? They double down. The church is true. This is Ecclesiology the worship of the church.

The church is true. The church is the way, the truth, and the life. And what's really sad Is people are buying into it and they're joining up with a the East Orthodox Church. It's seeing a resurgence. And uh that's very unfortunate.

And it really is. And talk more about it. Maybe I will after the next caller. Let's get to Scott from North Carolina. Scott, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey Matt, I hate to hear all that. Is that from the Catholic side or no, Eastern Orthodoxy. Oh yeah. Catholicism is about as bad.

It it's it's just it's it's sad. But these Orthodox, I think, is even worse here. Yeah.

Yeah, uh where are they studying at? Were they studying it at? Oh, they get out of the Yeah, there's called there's a college of of uh fortune cookies. And what they do is they go in, oh, yeah, they go into a restaurant and they get fortune cookies, and then they put them to their foreheads and say, This is how we have to learn theology. Yeah.

I hope that's Yeah, I can okay, I guess I'm I'm not getting them, so Yeah, good, great. Thanks for that. I like to hear all that. I was actually going to ask something about the Mormons, how to approach when they approached me about it. What's my answer to them?

And um but then I I was kind of thinking about the millennial, you know, premillennial or post. I wanted to know your. Biblical yeah, where where we are there in the Bible, what will what should I be?

Well, you should believe what you believe the scriptures teach. And uh You know, there are three major views of the millennium. Premillennialism says that there is a future literal 1,000-year reign of Christ. All millennialism says the thousand years is a figurative period, and that we're in that reign of Christ now. Postmillennialism says that through the preaching of the gospel, the world will be converted to Christ and usher in the kingdom of God.

So those are the three main views. And you need to study choice teleproof and see what you think it is. Be gracious with those who don't agree.

Okay? Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. There's there's my brother and I are family, we can disagree on things like that, but I I need to figure out and where I can find those scriptures that would justify the free or, you know, whichever one it is, and I'm seeing it. I believe Well, the thing is, each position has its strengths and weaknesses. I could get up and give a presentation defending and establishing each one from scripture.

It's not that the scriptures are contradictory, it's just that in some areas it's difficult.

So let me give you an example of something, okay? Let's go to Revelation 20. This is one of the things that I will do with people. I'll say, Because this is where it uh it mentions a thousand years. And I do this, I say, okay, so the thousand years is literal, and they'll say, yes, it's literal.

I say, okay. Let's look at the context of the book of Revelation. Is the book of Revelation literal or figurative? Emotionally?

Well, mostly figurative.

Okay, just just checking. Verse 20, I mean, it's gonna be Revelation 20, verse 1. Then I saw an angel come down from heaven. And I say, he guessed literal or figurative. They said literal.

I said, Yeah, I agree. It seems literal. Holding the key of the abyss. literal or figurative key.

Well, it's a figurative key. And a great chain in his hand. Was the angel literally holding a chain of metal? Coming out of heaven? No, it's a symbol of something he's holding, or whatever it is, the power.

It's figurative. Laid hold of the dragon. Is that literal or figurative?

Well, that's figurative. The serpent of old.

Now that's literal. Who is a devil and Satan, that's literal, and bound him for a thousand years, literal or figurative. And the point I'm just trying to make is sometimes the people do And they go to a text. They assume a certain value because they've been told that's what it means. And it's not what it means.

necessarily. You see you see what I'm saying here? Dirt. There you go. And uh So I can go on quite a bit about this, okay?

Because the post-millennialists will say that, well, things are going to get better. The gospel is going to preach to the whole world in Matthew 24. There's going to be an incredible revival. The gospel can be preached.

Well the reverses for that. But then You find things like there's going to be a great apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2. Or you find that during the millennial reign, Satan is supposed to be bound during that period of time. in the future. in premillennialism.

But In Matthew 12, 22 through 32. Satan's already bound.

So there's Lots of stuff.

Now there's a a proverb. Proverbs 18, 17. The first to plead his case seems right until another comes and examines him. The first time you hear it, makes sense. But is it true?

Proverbs 18, 17. Hold on, brother, we gotta. We got a break coming up, okay? Hey folks, if you write that out for these messages, please stay tuned. Right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show, Bottom of the Hour. You know, I was just thinking: how many shows do you listen to where you get instruction like this and quotes like this, what the Bible says, and things like that? I'm sure there's others.

I'm just curious, you know? Hmm, because I like to get into this stuff. Maybe because I had that mental problem. You know, I like heresy. All right, Scott, you're back on here, buddy.

I enjoy your show almost every night. If I have a chance and I'm in the car, I listen to it all the time, and I appreciate it. I don't have anything else really to ask. Just just wanted to thank you for what you do. All right, well, I got a suggestion for you, though, on studying.

And Uh what I would do if I were you is look up uh You know, like ask Google, whatever, what's the best article defending. Premillennialism, then the same thing for all millennialism, the same thing for post-millennialism.

However, Let me tell you something that basically Most of them don't go through, except the middle one does. It's called the The two-age model. this age and the age to come. That is taught by Jesus, and it's taught By the by Paul. And when I study and used to study the issue of Premillennialism.

They never mentioned that. Never mentioned it, but it's what It's how Jesus and Paul divides history. And then there's statements that say what happens at the end of these things. And it's very enlightening. You know, you've heard this stuff, for example: two men in the field, one is taken, one is left, and that's the rapture, right?

Converted. It's not the rapture. Yeah, those are not the rapture verses. Those are the about whose the ones you're taken are the wicked. And all you got to do is read the context.

Matthew 7, Matthew 24, Luke 17. Just go back and forth, put your thumb in both sets, you start reading. You know, where it says it was the days of Noah in both places. You start reading through it, it describes the same thing. It's the wicked who are taken.

Now what gets me is And by the way, 100% of the time when I've shown people over the years, 100, nobody has ever said, oh, you're wrong, man. It's still the rapture. After they've looked, everybody, all the time, goes, oh, you're wrong. You're right. 100%.

Now here's the thing. Why is it pastors are getting this wrong? Why are they to come and read the stinking context and figure out?

Now, the rapture occurs, that's out of 1 Thessalonians 4, I mean, verse 16 through chapter 5, verse 2. It's in the Bible. But those verses aren't rapture verses. Why can they not get that right? And To really make things worse, go to Matthew 13.

Oh wow. It gives a Jesus gives a parable of the wheat and the tares. And you could read it on your on your own. Verse thirty And he starts talking about this. And They said, hey, shall we tear up the tears?

In the parable he gives. He goes, no, allow both to go together. till the end of the uh till the harvest, okay. The harvest. They'll say to the reapers, First gathering.

The terrors. The first ones at the harvest gathered are the wicked. And then 10 verses later, Jesus interprets it and says, They're the wicked ones taken at the end of the age.

Now this is the stuff I don't see premillennialists. talk about. And if they don't I I believe they have an incomplete view.

So I'm kinda let showing my hand a little bit here.

Okay, and there's other stuff. But you start looking at this and you start going, oh, something's up.

Something's up. All right?

Okay. Alright.

Sounds good.

Sounds good.

I'll do my research. Good. Do your research. Thank you for your time. All right, man.

God bless. Thank you. Yeah.

Oh, sorry about that. God bless. Um Uh let's see. Uh So, um Yeah, I know. You know, I teach all this stuff, and I go through this stuff.

I hope I'm wrong about the position I have because I'm a pessimistic all-millennialist. I believe things are going to get worse and worse. That's just my opinion. I wish I was wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

Hope I'm just misreading it. I could be wrong. But that's a position I hold. And I think it's just going to get worse. And I think Jesus is going to come back for gigantic I told you so before we kill ourselves.

That's what I think is going to happen.

So That's another story, another thing, and we'll get into that some other time.

Now, what I'm going to do is get back to some EO stuff, Eastern Orthodoxy stuff. Because I think it's worth getting into. The heresies of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

So, um This is another thing I read to this guy last night. I'm going to read something. That is just simply blasphemy. Get ready. Then we'd comment about something.

This is what it says. And this is from the Orthodox ChurchinAmerica.org website. Beholding thee as Mary, crucified with him as Jesus. in your heart, and standing with his beloved disciple by the cross.

So Mary was now crucified with Jesus in her heart. Hmm, why would they say that?

Well, it goes on in the same quote: and having in thee a good mother, placing all our hope in thee amid our sorrow. As partakers of the sorrows and the sufferings of the Son, we cry to thee, thou that Disadopt us at the cross of thy son. They are trying to Get married to be involved with the one who redeems us. Without getting going too much into heresy. Just a little bit.

Just a little bit of heresy. Or should I say maybe a lot of heresy?

Now I'm going to ask you a question. Are you accustomed to someone on the radio? or from the pulpit. pointing fingers and calling out uh heretics. and false teachings.

And saying what it is. I hope You've heard from your pulpit from different radio shows, occasionally, depending on the show. I mean, if it's music, whatever, just a talk show, whatever. But I mean, this is a Christian apologetic show. This is defending the Christian faith and establishing the Christian faith.

So, in that kind of genre, hopefully, you're going to be hearing, if you ever hear, if there are other shows like this. You'll be hearing things like, no, that's a heresy, that's false teaching.

Now from your Your church. You should occasionally Be hearing your pastor say something like, Well, that's wrong, that's heresy, that's false teaching. Let's think about it. In 10 years, I don't know how, you know, some people have been Christians longer, some shorter, but I'm going to just use 10 as an average. In ten years of going to churches, have you ever heard your pastor or a pastor?

condemn someone for false teaching. If they if you the answer is no That's a warning. Jesus and Paul and Peter, these guys, they called people out by name, well, most of them did, and they addressed the religious leaders and they called them heretics. They know those exact words, but they condemned them.

Now, that's not to say that's what our job is. No, we're to be loving and patient and kind and helpful. It's not the goal to be out there pointing fingers and accusing everybody. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying part of preaching and teaching is preaching the teaching the truth that you need to be able to know what it is so you can say to somebody, I'm sorry, but that's false.

So, the Mormons, for example, are not Christian. It's a false religion, it's a cult. Teaching God came from another planet? And it has a goddess wife, and they have relations with each other and produce offspring. This is what the Mormon officials have taught.

And you can become gods. I'm sorry, that's not Christian. That is not Christian. What do they do? Eh, the Bible, you know, whatever.

We don't just go by the Bible, we go by other stuff. Yeah, no wonder you, you, you, uh. You believe these things. And the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, they pray to Mary, she could hear millions of prayers, they could do all this stuff. This is heresy.

It needs to be labeled as such when it's necessary from the pulpit, not all the time. I'm not saying that. I don't want you to get that impression. It's just that it needs to be done, and the pastor up there needs to point out that's a false teaching when someone says this. They need to do that when the scripture warrants it as they're going through scripture.

Now I'd do that. I occasionally, I mean, maybe one in twenty sermons I might do it where I'm really pointing out something, things like that. But mostly, the purpose of the preaching is to equip the Christians for the work of ministry. Not to babysit them and make them feel good. It's to equip them for the work of ministry.

My opinion is, now I'm going to get into the Protestant issue here. I think the Protestants a lot of the pastors aren't Preaching the power of the Word of God for the purpose of equipping the Christians to glorify God and expand the kingdom. This is why I believe that I believe that, say, a local church says, Matt, we want you to take over the pastorate here for a year. And uh you can just pre-whatever you want. I'll say, are you sure?

Yes. For one year. Whatever I want. Yes. Okay.

How many pa people are coming here? Five hundred people.

Okay. In a year it'll be down to about a hundred. A hundred and twenty, a hundred and fifty. If I preach.

Well, we don't want that. I said, well, why not?

Well, we we want people to coming in there. I said To hear what? What do you want them to hear? But when you hear the truth of God's Word, You want to hear the stuff that makes them feel good? Is success of preaching measured by how many people are in your church?

Is success of preaching measured by what the Word of God says? Faithfulness, scripturally, point by point. What does it say? When it needs to confront, it does. When it needs to comfort, it does.

Too many people, in my opinion, think that Success is measured by how many people are there. And that's not the truth. Success is, are you preaching to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ while you're equipping the body of Christ? We'll be right back after these messages, please. Stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All righty and welcome back to the show. Last segment of the hour. I know I'm challenging people, and I want to challenge people.

They need to be challenged, they need to hear the word of God, and that's what the preacher is supposed to do. The preacher is supposed to equip the Christian for the work of ministry. Do you believe that? Let me show you what the Bible says. Ephesians chapter 4.

And it talks about uh The Lord Jesus who descended uh who he who descended is himself also he who ascended into heaven.

So he's the one who, you know, he's got in flesh. All right. And he then goes on, he says in verse 11. Ephesians 4, and he, that's Jesus, gave some as apostles and some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of service to the building of the body of Christ.

Okay. They'll work a service. Building up the body of Christ. Yeah.

This can be uh really unpacked. It really needs to to uh Hmm. to be looked at. For the equipping of the saints, what does it mean to equip? them for, it says, the work of service.

You serve in the church, you serve one another, you serve others. And for the building of the body of Christ, for them to know what the truth is. The work of service: who are you serving or serving the Lord Jesus Christ? How are you serving Him? by what you do.

But it's not just in your house. It's in the lo the local church, your local Christians, and your neighbors. The service that we are to have is the same as Jesus did. He helped all kinds of people. He healed those who were Jews and not Jews.

He taught. He served people, the work of service that we're to have. for the building of the body of Christ. to build up, to edify. to equip them.

And they need to know the doctrines, they need to know the basics of the Christian faith.

so that they can do even more. They don't have to be evangelists. They don't have to be apologists. They don't have to be radio people or authors. They just need to be equipped by the pastor through the.

Preaching and teaching of the word, to do whatever God would have any individual in that church do. Because the preaching is for that.

Now, a lot of times people think: well, the church is there, the pastor is there, his job is to get more people in the church.

Well show me that in the Bible. Show me where it says his job is to get more people in. Show me in the Bible where he's supposed to preach to the unbelievers. It says For the equipping of the saints for the work of service to the building of the body of Christ, that's what they're supposed to do.

Now I go on, I can go to 1 Timothy 5, 17. Where it talks about the elders and the pastors, because the pastor is by default an elder. I can go to Titus chapter 1. In verse five, and where Paul says to Titus, appoint elders in every city. uh any man above reproach, husband of one wife, children who believe, etcetera.

He must be m uh It must be above reproach. As God's steward, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, etc. Hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, about, self-control. This is what the pastor is supposed to be, the elder. holding fast the faithful word.

which is in accordance with the teaching. What is the faithful work?

Well, I can tell you. A lot of stuff what that is. From the nature of God Himself to the person and work of Christ to justification, sanctification, to all these things. Because it says, so that he this is the elder's job, the pastor is an elder, will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. This means he has to know his stuff.

That's and he should.

Now not every pastor knows everything and That's just how it is. But we can't. But we are supposed to equip Christians. And let me ask you: if you're going to a church with women, pastors, and elders, which is unbiblical. Are you big equipped?

And I'm not saying every sermon has to be some Some new arrow in your quiver. No. But the overall equipping. Because you're supposed to go there to learn from the Word of God. If the pastor is preaching the Word of God faithfully.

He's going through the word faithfully. Then there's going to be places in the Word of God where it's just going to be intellectual. There's going to be places where it's going to be very emotional. There's going to be places where there's going to be physical requirements. There's going to be places where it could be sacrificial.

places where it's going to be Just You know, difficult. We know what that is. There's going to be all kinds of things. We're going to be comforted, we're going to be made upset, we're going to be, it's just what the Word of God does. Because we don't go to church to be comforted, we go to church to be taught.

And the teaching of the Word of God is important, and the pastor needs to take this very seriously with the preaching. And the pastors that I've met for the most part, man, are good at it. There's a lot of good pastors. I remember when I was out in North Carolina. And we had a group of people we met, the radio show guy and stuff.

And You know, I I don't I get to know them all, but They sure seem like really good people. And there are a lot of great pastors. Out there, who are teaching a lot of good stuff. I'm just saying to you out there. Are the pastors that you're sitting under, are they teaching the whole council of God?

You can have a really good pastor who teaches really well, a good communicator, but is he teaching the whole council? Are you learning the good, the bad, and the ugly, so to speak, about what the scriptures teach? The good is Jesus, the bad is us, and the ugly is me. And so we have to understand what it means to face ourselves before God, before His Word, to be changed by His Word. And that's what I encourage all people to do.

When I do marriage counseling, for example, I said I teach theology. Because God is the reason. For what is right and wrong. He's the standard. That's theology.

And Christians are bought with the blood of God Himself. That's theology. And therefore, You're supposed to live for him. not yourself, and sacrifice for one another in marriage. That's theology.

Theology, sometimes people think, well, it's a hypostatic union with dithelatism, but not eutichinism. You've got to know all these things. No, you don't. You need to know. what God has for you, and the reason is based in His character, not yours.

His goodness, not yours. That's good theology. And a lot of times the people, when I do marriage counseling, they're surprised that I'm as compassionate and as heartfelt and warm as I am during the counseling times.

Some of the time they'd say, we thought you're going to be a lot more. Theological, I say, I know. People, you know, because I'm on the radio, and that's how it comes off a lot. And they say it is very interesting and entertaining, it's tough sometimes. I make them laugh other times, and we have a good time.

But I always introduce. the theological views of the nature and work of God in the personal work of Christ. He's the reason. We seek him. Jesus says, Come to me, all who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 11, 28. I think it's John. Where was that verse? Luke 9. Where it says, he says, pick up your cross.

You know, this is one of the verses I should know and have memorized. But it's similar to some other verses I have memorized in the address. And so, because of that, I get a little confused with them sometimes. I do have a lot in my head. But in Matthew 16, 24, if anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.

So in Matthew 16, 24, this is what we have. And this is what we're supposed to be doing. No, I don't like it. I don't. I'm just telling you right now, I don't like it.

I don't like picking up my cross and following after Christ on a daily basis. I don't. I don't know about you. Maybe it's for you it's easier. Because for me you know, I was born with this genetic difficulty, this genetic deformity called thick skull.

and a hard heart. And You know, I can stupidify all kinds of things. And I can justify all kinds of things. But denying myself, oh, that's not easy. Pick up the cross, that's not easy.

But that's what we're called to do, isn't it? And whether we like it or not, that is what we're called to do before the Lord. That's part of the preaching of God's Word. to pick up that cross. Matthew 16:24 to go after the Lord Jesus, to follow him.

Think about the preachers and the teachers. God wants you wealthy. He wants you healthy. He wants you blessed. That's right, give that thousand dollars and you'll be blessed sevenfold.

That's right. Send it to me. They're to my ministry, $8,000, and you'll be okay. And he'll bless you this little seed faith money. Uh-huh.

You hear them preaching. If you want to come after Christ, deny yourself. And follow him. Pick up your cross. Instead of saying Well, you know, he wants you healthy and wealthy.

I'm going to say. He may not. He may have for you. pain and suffering, like he did my wife. And she passed away.

Two and a half months ago. A great deal of suffering. I'm not saying, oh, hey, that was great. No. No.

She was in a lot of pain and a lot of suffering, and finally took her. And this is what God had in his sovereign plan, and he allowed this for my wife. He allows it for all kinds of people. He allows this. And she I'll use her as an example.

She's a great woman. She's a great woman. Except for taste in men, she's a good woman. She never denied Christ, but she picked up a cross as often as she could. Even in the midst of her pain she sought to serve others.

Until she couldn't anymore. You see You know, we can look at different people that we've known. and see how they were godly in a lot of ways. That's what it means to deny yourself and come up to Christ. See, what is it are we being taught as Protestants?

It's easy. to point the fingers. At At the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Eastern Orthodox, the Roman Catholics, for there are many. Damnable heresies are false doctrines and are false gospels, false priesthoods. Absolutely.

And they are. It's easy because it doesn't require anything of us except to lift an accusatory finger and point.

Well You know what that's saying, you know, when you point one finger out, you got three looking back at you, you know, buddy, you know, you plug down.

Well How do we compare ourselves? with them or to compare yourself with Christ. We're supposed to compare ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ and use Him as the measuring stick, and then we're always going to fall short. But this is what it means, again, to pick up the cross on a daily basis, to reject. uh the service of our own flesh.

and the desires of our own. ideologies and our own ways. but to serve others. consider others more important than ourselves, Philippians two, four and five talks about. This is what we're to do.

Anyway, I'm just talking about this stuff because it is a springboard off of the incredible heresies and blasphemous heresies of the. Eastern Orthodox Church regarding Mary. saying this the blasphemies about her. And what's really interesting, and we've only got about a minute left of the show. I can't tell you how many times I've had Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics defend Mary.

See, what I do is walk up in there their church. I walk up to their statues of Mary and I push em over. Oh.

Don't do that. No, you can't do that. It has to be you to bow down before those statues, those icons. Get about before them and let them work. Yeah.

No, you don't. And I can get into this quite a bit.

So, anyway, there we go. 30 seconds or so left in the show. Look, I hope you enjoyed today's show. It's a little bit challenging, a little bit different. That's just how it goes.

Now, be the Lord bless you. I want to let you know that I'll be off the air Thursday and Friday of this week because I've got to go to Dallas and be in a debate. And I'll be doing that while debating a Muslim. And the information for that is on carm.org forward slash calendar. The information that you need is right there.

Carm.org forward slash calendar. You can check it out. And it's going to also say we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us. You can go to the CARM website, C-A-R-M.

Dot O-R-G in the top there says donate all information needs right there. It's quick and slick, easy-peasy. And there's the music.

So I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you by His grace. Back on here tomorrow, and we'll talk to you then. God bless. Have a good evening.

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