Verbal And Physical Relationships Part 2

Hey, this is Mike Zwick from If Not For God Podcast, our show.

Stories of hopelessness turned into hope. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it. But most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Hi, I'm Roy Jones. Welcome back to Man Talk Radio.

And I'm Will Hardy. Welcome to Man Talk. Well, we're lucky enough to have Ms. Jane Lessard join us again this week. Last week, we got into a real deep discussion around physical and verbal abuse and relationships and quite some eye-opening statistics, right, Will?

Exactly, Roy. It was eye-opening for sure. And I hope that those who were listening or have listened to that particular podcast, that you take some of the things that we talked about to heart and please act on it if you are find yourself in such a situation. Yeah, so Jane, one of the things that, you know, I've watched it from the outside a little bit, not so much from the pastoral work, but growing up, not in my home, but seeing it on the external side with other families in the area. And just watching it at that point, it was, I guess, when we were growing up, it was more accepted, I guess, is the right word than it is today.

And it was wrong then, wrong now. But it's a really strange thing. It's as if the spouse feels like they have nowhere else to go. And what do you think that's a result of, Jane? Do you think it's an insecurity within the spouse? Or do you think it's manipulation by the dominant spouse that's doing the abuse that's got them convinced that they can do no better? What do you think contributes to that, Jane?

I think it's a I think it's both. A lot of women who are in abusive relationships were abused as a little girl. And that's what they know.

And so they chose it again, because that's what they're familiar with. But also because their self esteem was pretty beat out of them as a kid, and so they don't feel like they're worthy of a man that would treat them well. So, but then, let's say if, if a relationship like I talked about last week starts out normal, you even think this is too good to be true. And then after marriage, they flip. Well, oftentimes, the woman keeps looking for this man of their dreams that they fell in love with, and they keep holding on to, maybe he'll come back. And gradually, their self worth is beat down to the point where then they don't have what they need to get out. So in sometimes in situations like that, Jane, they may go out and start looking for that person who they say, well, I want the person who I married, when we were, you know, one or two years into our relationship, I want that man back. And if they attempt to hold on, but if they don't get that, then they may go out and now start looking for that particular man that they found in that relationship early on in their marriage, which then creates a whole another set of problems, right?

And that's what we're working toward. Yeah, then it then it brings a third party into an already bad situation, which will most likely even end in violence or death, violence or death, because the husband or the wife has now gotten extremely jealous. And that physical attack goes outside the marriage to the other person.

Right? So one of the things, Jane, as you were speaking there that come to mind was the importance we talk about the role of the husband and the role of the father, men, think about this, you are you are setting the stage for what your children are to expect in their marriage. You're laying the groundwork. So if they see you verbally abusing their mother, or physically abusing their mother, and let's flip it and let's make it even here, or women, if they see you abusing your husband, though, that's what they will come to expect, as Jane has mentioned, that will be the norm of what they expect in their relationship. So therefore, that will be the relationships they end up with, that emotional intelligence will be hardwired for them to be looking for that type of person. And they grow up and think they have the right to control and restrict their partners. And it starts all over again. Yeah, because they have the right to do it.

So I have the right to do it. Yeah, exactly. So the collateral damage is generational. It's not just in the moment, it's generational. So absolutely, I guess, you know, in the US, and Jane, I'm sure you and I've talked about this before, and Will and I as well, the US is such an immediate ground for an immediate gratification country, that we don't think about long term vision, like other countries do. We have a very short vision, we think about in the moment or next year, maybe five years, in most of our work environments. And then our personal life is a long term vision. But other countries think of long term as generational impact. I'd lay the groundwork today for what it's going to look like 50 years from now, what it's gonna look like 30 years from now. And that men and women is what we need to be doing for our families.

We're laying the groundwork for that generational impact 30 years down the road, 50 years down the road, and second, third, fourth generations. So now's the time to change to come back to God put Christ in the center of these relationships. And if you're struggling in this type of environment, and you love your spouse, seek help, even if it means separating for a while that may be the healthiest thing from Jane, I'm sure you can concur, tell us what you think here. But that may be the healthiest thing until the till the two individuals get healthy to come back together.

Right. And Roy, I like what you're saying, because when you have a love relationship with Christ, you're surrendering control to Him. It's like you realize your life is not manageable, that what you're doing isn't working. And you surrender to Him.

And when you give Him control, and the Holy Spirit takes over, and then the fruit of the Spirit begins working in your life, you do become a new creation. And I've seen that in my marriage counseling, men that bow to me and say, I've messed up. I'm not the man I want to be. God help me. I've seen total turnarounds. So Christ really is the answer to this problem, because He's the only one who can set us free from this. Amen. Absolutely. Jane, how many out of 10 people that you have counseled, or couples that you've counseled, that have actually had premarital counseling?

Not many. I can attest to that, too. I can attest to that, too, because I think that is a lot of what we're missing, because I think, again, as Roy stated, here in America, we want the immediate, you know, that we're not looking for anything long term. So a lot of couples feel like they don't need that, that they have everything, quote, unquote, all together.

So I don't need anybody to tell me what I should be doing or shouldn't be doing going into my marriage relationship. And I think that in and of itself becomes a stumbling block for them, because, you know, again, Proverbs 16 2 says, All of the ways of a man are clean or perfect in his own eyes, but God weighs the motive. He weighs why you're doing what you're doing. And of course, he knows what led up to that. So I think as we will. Yeah, go ahead, Jay. Well, you're making a great point. I didn't mean to interrupt.

Oh, no, no, go ahead. If they had gone to premarital counseling, you know, I talked about how and oftentimes these relationships, you think, Oh, my gosh, this is the dream come true. But premarital counseling is going to dig into and the counselors going to see things that you can't see exactly. And a lot of this could have been exposed and dealt with before you ever got married. Exactly.

If you don't go to premarital counseling, you've got those rose colored glasses on. Exactly. You're so right.

You're so right, Jane, because because a lot of things, each spouse, they hide from each other so as to get their affection for them to say yes to their relationship. So so it's I'm going to give you whatever it is that I think you need from me in order for me to show you that I care so much about you until they put the ring on. And then all of a sudden they go from, you know, Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde. And we laugh. That's right. It does. Exactly right. Yes, it does. Well, and the moral of this point is that, folks, if you're listening and you are unmarried and you're getting ready to get married, then seek out premarital counseling.

That's right. If you're parents of children that are about to get married and coach them to have premarital counseling, because Jane and I have had the benefit of working through some of this together in the past. And it's quite amazing the little things that can be coached through that will make a greatly improved relationship versus those little things that aren't coached through that can become huge, huge roadblocks in the communication, which then leads to dissatisfaction and anger and all the other things come behind it.

So strongly encourage that. Absolutely, Roy. I had twelve weeks of counseling, three three days a week for four hours each day. And wow, yes, that was before in your marriage, in my marriage, in my marriage prior to getting married. And I remember we call that an intensive. Yeah, exactly.

And it was Jane. Trust me, because at the end, at the end of the twelve weeks, I remember my pastor telling me, he said, you know, if I could talk you out of getting married, you don't need to be married, because some of the things that he stated as you listen to the questions he was asking, how, you know, if you if you get a job to where you have to travel, for example, you're going to be tempted. Women are going to come up to you and men are going to come up to your wife. And so when you're apart now, that's going to show what type of strength, not that you have in each other, but as being a born again believer, how much strength and faith you're putting in God for your relationship, and that you're going to be faithful to him.

And then he will show you how. We're coming up on a break when we come back. And we're back. And I got so excited talking about that.

We just I just kind of went into the commercial. But I think the whole idea is this, is that we understand the importance, first of all, of the assurance of what you get when you go to Christian counseling and Christian counseling. I think it has its place, because what it does is it ensures that your relationship is built off of what the word of God says. And if each person in that relationship, the wife and the husband, understand what their role is as a wife and the man understanding his role is as a husband, the way God intended it to be, I think that will start smoothing out a lot of issues that attempt to come in and divide their relationship.

Right. When you look for a premarital counselor, don't look for somebody who's just going to meet with you for an hour or two or three, but somebody who's really going to dig deep into y'all's relationship. Absolutely. Jane, why don't you tell, having gone through this in the process recently, why don't you share a few of the things that premarital counseling includes, like the personality things and the love talk.

I think this would be a great time for that. Folks, I want you to sit up on the edge of your seat, pay close attention to what Jane's going to talk to you about, this love talk, because it's a great tool for anybody at any age, at any point in their relationship. And you shouldn't be ashamed if you're listening and you're about to get married. Don't be ashamed to go and express feelings that you might have going into this relationship because it eventually is going to come out.

If it's not going to come out early, it's going to come out in the middle or late in the relationship. Right. All right, Jane, it's on you now.

Okay. The first thing I tend to do in premarital counseling is get both people to share their life story so that you're very aware of the wounds in their life. Because it's our wounds that cause us to react. And if we don't know and understand those wounds, we won't understand our partners. So that's where as a marriage counselor, I see a lot of red lights when they tell their life story. And I begin to see where they're wounded.

And it helps me take them deeper. The second thing that I do is have them take personality tests that Roy was talking about. So that they see this is who my partner is. I'm not going to change them. This is their DNA. They might be leaders. They might be passive.

They might be. But their personality is pretty much by the time you're 25, you know, your personality is going to be your personality. And can they accept that in each other without trying to change it? So they know going into their marriage, who they're marrying, and they're not going to try and change that.

This is who God created them to be. And then after that, I will talk about love languages. And what your love language is, it's so important to know that. Because you can give a partner 1000 things, but if you're not speaking their love language, they won't feel loved. And a lot of times, if you don't have premarital counseling, you don't have a clue what your partner's love language is. Then I'll talk about communication.

And that's what Roy was talking about, heart talk. Communication is the aorta to a marriage. You can have 1000 things that are different in your marriage. But they won't even be an issue if you know how to communicate. If you don't communicate well, and you go to right, wrong, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm good, you're bad. In discussions, you're going to go into negative overdrive and negativity creates negativity creates negativity. 50% of marriages and in divorce of the remaining 50%, 40% are miserable.

So a lot of marriages end up there. But if and I'm not going to have time on this show, but if you learn how to communicate, then you'll never have to go there. And so that's probably one of the most important tools that premarital counseling can give you. And it might be worth our time to have a whole session around what good communication involves. I mean, that would be a great session.

Yeah, let's plan on doing that. But those are a few of the things that we do in premarital counseling. I could go on, we we make a budget, we talk about friends and family.

You know, we hit about 10 major areas in marriage, and make sure we're on the same page. You know, and that's, that's something too, Jane, when you when you touched on the budget. I'm, it's, I'm just blown away at the amount of households that don't have a budget.

And it doesn't matter how much you make. See that that's what I think a lot of people, they have within themselves that they have to make a certain amount in order to, you know, do a budget. But a budget is exactly it. It determines what you're, what you're spending, what you're bringing in, and whatever it is you have left over, what do you do with that?

So, that's right. Yeah, I'm, I'm just surprised that most households don't have budget. I love what you just said, because the budget is really the boss of our finances. The man's not the boss, the woman's not the boss. We make a budget, and that's the boss. That tells us what we can and cannot do, period. Exactly, exactly. And it, and I think what it does is it gives, you know, the husband and the wife a verbal, not a verbal, excuse me, a visual picture of exactly where the money's going, and whether or not they're being a good steward of what God has given them.

Right, that is a great point. Well, and Jane, in the, in the marital conflict, how much of it was around finances when you were dealing, you know, we talked about some of the abusive things, but how many times was when you got to the root of the arguments and just normal marriage counseling, was it around finances? A lot is around finances. In fact, finances, I think, are the number two or three cause of divorce. So it's up there, and if you've got a budget and you really work the budget, then you're not going to have problems there. And that goes back to this generational thing, right?

So parents, if you're, if you're not doing it, then it's good for you to start doing it, and then you teach your children early on about a budget, and then that transcends into their adulthood, and then they carry it forward, generationally changing. Exactly, and we're not talking about the hidden budget either, because we, we know that there's folks who have the hidden budget, you know, they, they have this little stash stashed away that's income that should be coming in to the house, contributing to all of the needs of the family members within that house, but, you know, that's, that, that, that hidden budget, that's a killer right there. Well, that's, that's an integrity issue.

Let's call it what it is. Right. It's an integrity issue, so that goes back to, it's either right or it's wrong, and if you're following Christ, it should all be right, aside from the side steps or missteps we all make and, and have those occasional sentences about, occasional sinful actions that we do, right? Well, we're not perfect. And you know, Roy, integrity should be one of the number one characteristics you're looking for in your faith. Amen. Because if you're marrying somebody who lies or flips things or, you know, twists things, you cannot have a good marriage.

You cannot. So it is a intimacy killer. Yes. So I'm really glad you brought that up. Well, you know, it's, it's interesting. I want us to come back to this thing about the communications, Wills. Let's make sure we get that scheduled with Jane and, and the, and the heart talk that she was mentioning earlier. It's going to be an amazing opportunity, but folks, what it teaches you when we come back on another show with this is about mirroring back what you've heard with your spouse and several other components that really values the conversation that you had with your spouse. And it teaches you as the one who's listening, how to make sure that you've understood everything that you've just heard.

And it's really a cool tool. So we'll, we'll, we'll come back to that on another show. Cause it, to Jane's point, it'll take some, some time and we don't want to hurry through it. So back to the, as we're getting close, I don't know how much time we've got here.

We haven't seen the clock lately that we're getting closer on the two minute mark. Jane, we got about two minutes. So what we'd like to just give you just a free flow. If there's something you would like our listeners to hear from you as a 40 plus year marriage counselor, individual counselor, just if you had that moment, you could speak to a large audience.

What would your narrative be that you would like to leave them with? Well, I'd probably like to say if communication is not good in a marriage, seek help. There are two ways that couples can go. They can go right, wrong, win, lose. I'm good.

You're bad. Or they can seek to understand each other. And that's what the tools of heart talk teach.

Like Roy was talking about, if a couple has that down, they can weather the hardest storms. But if you're going to go to, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm good.

You're bad. You're going nowhere. You're going to be in the 50% that are divorced. So of all the things I could talk about as a marriage counselor, I do hope that you guys will give me the opportunity to just spend a whole session on just that so that men and women can know how to communicate. And Jane, you've got our commitment to doing that. We'll get you back very soon on that. Folks, be looking for that.

We'll label it heart talk when that show's available. Amen. Thank you, Roy.

Amen. And we know that God is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above all that we ask or think. So when you hear us talk about subjects like this, listener, know that we're talking from the heart and we want you to succeed even in the worst possible situation. We're giving you tools that you can do.

We're giving you a number and we love you because God is love. Have a great week. www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk. This is the Truth Network.