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Enough Is Enough

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman
The Truth Network Radio
August 20, 2022 1:00 am

Enough Is Enough

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman

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August 20, 2022 1:00 am

When is enough, enough? If you’re in an abusive relationship, don’t miss one of the most popular broadcasts of the last year on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Dr. David Clarke says when the abuse starts, don’t wait and hope for things to get better. Get to safety now. Don’t miss the conversation with Dr. David Clarke on this summer best-of Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

Featured resource: Enough Is Enough: A Step-By-Step Plan to Leave an Abusive Relationship with God’s Help

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It is a pattern of narcissistic and disrespectful and harmful behavior exhibited by one person in an intimate relationship. Bottom line is is one person slowly destroying another person welcome building on the revenue, the five love my many of these start to get Dr. David Clark says in his new book enough is enough and you'll hear this important discussion on the program. This is part of our summer best series here on Building Relationships that are new season starts in September this week and next back in Dr. David Clark joined us in January's book. Enough is enough of a step-by-step plan to leave an abusive relationship with God's help, Gary. This is such an important topic is Chris, I think so because many of us do not realize how many people living with an abusive spouse and sometimes I have gotten advisor to just sit there and take it to know. I'm not sure that that's the loving thing to do and I'm glad we don't talk about this today, so I'm excited about our conversation. Dr. David E. Clark is a Christian psychologist speaker. The author of 15 books including, I don't want to divorce my spouse wants out and I don't love you anymore is a graduate of Dallas theological seminary Western conservative Baptist seminary as well is been in private practice for more than 30 years, focusing on marriages and crisis. His wife Sandy live in Tampa Florida. They have four children and four grandchildren. You can find out more about him in our featured resource@ again. The book is enough is enough. Skoda five love Dr. Clark welcome to Building Relationships. Well thank you is my great privilege to be here. Your license counselor and you been working with women in abusive relationships for 35 years. Why did you for compelled to write this particular book. Garrett really felt like I don't just feel like I know this is a major problem abuse, not just in secular society, but also in the church. The numbers in fact are pretty much the same and I didn't see any book where it was clearly defined abuses clearly defined and biblically is explained why you can get out that got want you to get out and and exactly how to get out so that on the practical person, a hands on guy I let a lot of ladies and some men through this I thought you know what I want, write a book that just spells it out so that's why I did not want to be clear and I want to help them out now.

In the early years of your ministry did you think that you would be where God has led you this juncture in your counseling. No, not at all trained to be an individual therapist. That's what I did but my debt nobody else would give me a job.

My dental Clark who just passed wonderful father passed a few months ago he he he gave me a job and his practice was entitled marriage and family enrichment center so hey I'm a marriage counselor so I learned and I been doing that now for 35 years working with marriages and crisis so you know what, I guess I blame my dad.

But God is doing this as I think what I'm good at time active I'm directed I have a plan so it's worked out great.

It's great and I think often, God pushes us into an area where we were not anticipating.

That's good because he he was anticipating that he knows. He knows what it's doing absolutely give us a working definition of abuse. Okay, here is what it is. I worked hard on this and very proud of it, but I believe it's accurate. It is a pattern factly a never ending pattern.

Not once in a while or he had a bad day, a pattern of narcissistic disrespectful and harmful behavior exhibited by one person in an intimate relationship. Bottom line is it's one person slowly destroying another person. That's the bottom line. No physical abuse, which we often think about it's horrific for the spouse. But emotional abuse can also leave deep deep scars know how to spouse emotionally abuse the other spouse there's a there's a number of ways, and is using not just one area. Gary is you know it's it's a number of areas.

Verbal abuse is always part of the package. Typically, ongoing criticism about so many things your weight, your attractiveness, your housekeeping, your your activity in the bedroom how you raise the kids all in on never ending drumbeat of criticism.

Your needs are neglected.

In fact for the narcissist and most abusers are narcissistic your needs don't even reach his radar screen all about him.

He won't communicate won't listen to any topic that you want to talk about your your given the silent treatment for days, weeks on end.

There's control there's anger there is sometimes a actual physical violence. There's addiction and the bottom line is I'm in the hallmark is everything your fault that it looks like I made everything now.

I assume that the biggest percentage of abuse is Mayo against female but now wives can abusive husbands as well.

Right. Oh they can. You can go the other way. I'm in my experience is about 8020, at least in my practice in the pastors and people I know across the country. Christian therapist, but there's 20%, maybe 25 were yet what the woman is the one who was the abuser may be a characterological disorder she's spendthrift or she's just vicious. She's got her own issues and so it's the guy who's thinking oh my goodness, I am just being laid out yet. Go the other way. Remember husband who said he should talk to him and he said we've been married eight years and I can't remember a single day in eight years that my wife doesn't criticize me and he said I'm coming to you. He said because I know that when I tell her what about to do. She don't call you and I just want to know where I'm coming from. Well that's it's a nutshell seated seated, and when I shared with her. You know what he said to me she's I was just trying with Dr. Clark you gave this word is great big word narcissist and narcissism for those who are listening, you don't know what that is. Is that just an intense self focus it's it's it's actually a lot more than that. This is a characterological disorder and we and our society is churning out narcissist like never before. Social media has I think has fueled this. If I see one more picture of somebody's food they ate for lunch. I think I'm gonna scream. I mean it's just all about me. It's a tremendous absolute focus on self no one else's needs. Make any difference. There is no empathy there is no conscience. The driving force of this person is. I'm going to get what I want in this life. Don't get in my way so they marry. For convenience, not for love because they can only love themselves love the Lord they think date they might look good in church. It is all about me and if you give me a problem on the tear you to pieces. So let me ask you one more question before we take a break. If you, why do people fall in love with somebody like this. Can't you see those warning signs ahead to things like ladies. I talked to. I'm sure Garrett would agree.

They missed the they see the warning signs, but their damage themselves, their dad was an abuser.

There use to it and so they miss it. But the other truism is that these guys are consummate actors they could have a room full of Oscars for their charming performance courtship wise, they will fool you. This is the greatest guy in the world. He's like geez he's the next Billy Graham. I'm just sure of it. And that day after the wedding first week at the outside totally different story.

Behind closed door. So there. They're awfully good at fooling people.

This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" .

Dr. David Clark is joining us today were talking about his book, enough is enough step-by-step plan to leave an abusive relationship with God's help, just got a five love Clark let's talk about the church and abuse. How has the church done with this issue through the last 35 years. My goodness, to words not well, it has just not been good. There are there are some exceptions, I'll grant some people some godly pastors who get it to understand the issue but the vast majority. In fact, do not other godly people they love the Lord, but they've mishandled time and again, a woman coming into their office and sing Pastor like here's what's happening. I need help and it's mishandled by the pastor, and by the elders and the deacons. The leaders of the church.

So many women just they get abused again emotionally backed by the leaders of the church and they never go back on course and asked for help and they suffer in silence for decades. So what are the most common nonbiblical and damaging approaches to marital abuse that there use by pastors and churches as the top ones I think you're to be told you they need to be submissive. I just told you that I being abuse but you have, you can have to be submissive to this man because that's what the Bible teaches. Okay, we don't submit the sin like that you're to be told you that the state no matter what you've made your bed, even if you and the kids are being destroyed and that's problem and I'm sorry you made a contract. It's a covenant and you have to stay, not realizing God makes an exception. Frankly, for this level of abuse. One of the standards is just keep you keep on loving him and he'll change that works with a decent loving man.

Of course I godly man, it does not work with an abuser infected enables him.

They'll tell you it's not abuse it will be redefined and will be minimize. This is really not happening form of denial and then ultimately and this happens in so many Christian circles.

You know, dear woman, it's your fault that he treats you so badly. My goodness, what others are all wrong and very hurtful, and frankly abusive in their own right. You will I'm certain that you heard many stories of pastors and churches covering up abuse which you just described. Why do you think this happens.

Why do so many pastors this is this is pretty much the normal pattern for them.

Talk to a number these pastors and course we disagree on this, but I think this is what's happening. It's a form of denial. Number one they don't want to face it, it's abuse because it is up you still have to do something about. And frankly, there week, more passive people.

They don't want to have to confront the abuser. He sees that he's maybe he's well known in the church is well respected.

He maybe has fooled them already and so that's part of the package do hate this is a great guy.

I don't believe you, ma'am, what you're saying he's on the finance committee. He's he serves communion.

Look, I don't what can I tell you I and then of course, and this is the insight like the boys club and so many churches, especially conservative churches I've seen this time and time again men are protected. Husbands are protected and the wife is thrown under the bus.

It's just a guys club working to side with the guy here.

That's not what God wants you to do but that's what I see happening will lead. Let's look at the biblical perspective or God's perspective. What is this what the Scriptures really teach and how does God feel about abuse in marriage old man. He is angry at the abuser. Oh yes he is. Abuse is an intolerable sin to God.

We see this in Malachi 2 just one example where God speaks incredibly harshly to abusive husbands were tossing their wives aside for foreign women for no good reason. Very harsh language. There, it's a damaging sin. It's an awful sin, and of course it's a serious violation of God's design for marriage Genesis 224 one flash it destroys that Ephesians 525. I repeated that to husbands and wives for 35 years. The husband's job is to love the wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. You are you are so far short of that standard sort of said amendment that's followed by them slamming into my office and slamming three doors including their core door and leaving the parking lot and onto the okay. I like it. I I thought he never leave let's you and I start working on what you can do to get away from this monster so got Goddess and God's on our side absolutely on our side. Now in a situation like that. I think the normal question that people are asking is can he change will he change his or something we can do to help them change yeah well it's 4 to 6%.

It's the numbers are low, however, biblically we give that we give the abuser a bona fide chance to change A position of safety are you you leave your you and your kids leave. It may take months to prepare, but you're out and you're giving you the message. I'm done. Leave me alone. A man's whisper when he loses his woman a man's response of that will tell you everything you need to know.

He has an opportunity will take him 789 months to work on himself to figure out the abuse to become a man of God to to correct all the damage he's done in any talk to people that have keys character assassinated you to all that. So he has a chance and not there are some that would I never know who's going to do is not so this is but it's always a position of strength and security, and you left no biblical support for separating from an abusive spouse. We have clear teaching in Scripture.

And we also have clear examples got I think is make this very clear. You won't have this many pulpits, but it's the truth. When a sinner will not want a serious and it will not repent, you are to have no social contact with that person. That's Matthew 1817 we see to get Romans 1617. Shun those who cause divisions. First Corinthians 5 makes it clear there was a person in the church that was involved in serious sexual sin. He was to be ignored and the people in the body. Having no contact with him. It happened to be her husband okay that's fine. This was listening to me sexual sin, but it's in the same category.

Second Thessalonians 3.


Keep away from anyone who was living a sinful lifestyle. Then we have the example and from a psychologist point of view it's it's spot on. It's like it's God's abuse story in the Bible, Abigail and Nabel. She had no rights. She could kill her in front of the entire community and normal to said a word but had no rights and that in the in that day. However, with God's help in a secret plan and gathering provisions and and and for blurting her husband. She did it secretly she went. She saved the household she ends up with David and God took Nabel out that I think it's a very clear example that God doesn't want you to stay within abuser Dr. Clark.

I know that what you just said is raising a lot of questions in the lives in the minds of our Christians because they have hurt, but I have heard the other side of stay there. The things you mentioned earlier and I haven't heard this so what what about the wife who's hearing this right now and she's thinking I'll never heard this before the main legislature right now. I would say as I said anyone search the Scriptures in this book can be a helpful guide.

I would recommend anything that's not God directed God inspired and so I do your research. Don't just listen to Dave Clark him and I believe I'm right but I'm only right because I'm I'm trying to be God's mouthpiece doesn't have any wisdom on his own, and I would further say look if if you choose to stay with this abuser count the cost and do you believe that God really wants you to be destroyed physically, emotionally, spiritually. Same thing for your children and frankly the abuser has no chance to change either, since your enabling him to the whole argument. Of course I cover in the book where I'm I'm I'm making a very clear case to get out but it's not an easy thing to do and there's a lot of resistance to it. I've never had a woman yet in my office who said you know what, thank you for sharing. How can I get out know they fight me tooth and nail because faith is. You said you that they don't get that lot of assistance in the churches told this in my pastor that I want to be divorce settlement to be divorced, either.

I will never recommend divorce, separation is a different story to get her strong enough and healthy enough even after she believes the Scripture. That's the first step course then okay I can. I think God wants me to, then she's got to do the work to get ready to go and that will take her months. So really what you're saying. One of the things you're saying is with her simply staying there and just putting up with abusive behavior, she isn't enabling him to continue to be the ungodly person he is and that's not love. Love doesn't enable some so I guess what we could put it this way that separating from an abusive husband is an act of love. If indeed you do with that attitude, you know absolutely us. It is protecting you and your children, but also it gives your husband that say the husband's he abuser. The only chance he's ever going to have.

To actually make the change to break repent, and if he commits himself to God. That's exactly what will happen. He has a lot of work to do but yeah I think it's very loving. It's tough love, but love me tell… Enough is enough is the title of our featured resource today. If you have five love you can find out more. It's a step-by-step plan to leave an abusive relationship with God's help and again you can find it@ I have to ask this as I'm listening to you and Gary talk. Dr. Clark, what if the abusive person.

What if the abusive spouse is the pastor what you do that Apple and I've had cases like that all yes I have.

While this is really difficult because the wife will tell me look if I if I leave him. His ministry is over, to which I respond, it should be over before you told me is true, and I believe you now that I've had a few cases this is extraordinary, but it's a God thing with that. Did she left she took the kid she left. He was suspended for ministry. I'm sitting up one guy in particular. And he did a heat he went throughout total brokenness. He stepped away from the church he grew he was actually restored to not just his wife and kids, but to the ministry. It was that's what can happen, but if you're if you're there. And this is like.

I'm not too hard in these ladies like initially, but I have to get there say look, you, you have to stand up for the body not the only one that he's abusing this this is leaking out into other areas as well. But it's it's that that's a tough one. Hello, my goodness, because I'm editing his job and his ministry. You know what okay yeah you are actually you're not doing it.

He's doing that you're just taking steps at a reasonable yeah I think if women can come to see that it is an act of love.

You have often put it like this you know I love you too much to stay here and let you destroy me and the kids. Therefore, I'm going to and she tells him what she's going to do that way if she understands an act of love, then it's easier for her to take that step then if she sees it as an act of you know, I'm just gonna have this, get out here because I can't take this anymore.

That's true to no question about that, but if she understands an act of love and above all else were challenged to which I was a love each other. What is the best thing I can do from a husband.

At this point right what I like that I like that a lot. It's right on the mark right.

This is actually the best possible thing for all concerned, including the abuser because he might change. He's been easily and you know before God had done nothing I can. And when whenever he is faced with losing his wife. It will be that you said this, it will be the strongest motivation for him to get help. Oh yeah-I till I was told the couple it is just earlier today.

The thought of my sessions, I do. I said look in 35 years never see a different went when you when you lose your woman. At that point the right man will move heaven and earth to get her back. I would do whatever it took to keep my sanity and to stay with her, but the wrong man won't do it will blame you character assassinate, he will not change. Okay, that's your answer.

That's your answer, and she in that case did not create her divorce. He created a divorce.

Yes he's destroyed the marriage. Oh yeah will blame you abalone. So what you doing then is your just exposing what is your bringing into the light by by deciding to leave your bringing in the light. What the truth is that you can't put under a bushel basket anymore as it that were to say that they rightly are revealing truth which is also scriptural.

Only or not he will he will lie able to see people distort and I told his legs look you can. His reaction will distantly confirm that you've done the right thing. He will run to the pastor whose his body that say and and and heat. These guys lie and they believe their own lives there very persuasive filter drunk it's against the heat. He actually will.

I've seen this happen hundreds of times.

That's why getting out sooner is better than later so he said he'll try all but him.

The very act of doing that will make it very clear you know what yeah that's who he is, because you know the truth and God knows the truth. Maybe nobody else does, but that's enough follow up with that.

Is there a danger in calling abuse for something that's not abuse and getting out to soon meaning that the infraction here is not really abuse their ours is that something that you feel is abuse. You know what I'm asking. I do it's a great question.

I that's why the first six chapters of this book, I am fair and moody help me with this very carefully defining abuse and what it is and what it's not. This not as unhappy marriage or you know we have problems. He's got he's got an issue. No, no it's it's destruction and its specific elements and so I cover that very carefully because I want anybody to end there would be some people who will use it as an excuse when it's simply not true. And having said that, most of these. Most of these ladies have gone decades, not just a month couple of months or two of three years. Five 1015 2025 out this awful ongoing abuse. They're not lying about it but but they even struggle with. They don't want to admit that it's abuse because denial so strong. My job is like a hammer. That's why impounding the table here in my office I I want to break through that and make you believe it is abuse and you do some about, but there's also the guilt that comes along with that. You know if this is abuse. Why didn't I see it earlier and then she beats herself up for that yet these ladies are so these dear souls are so hard on themselves and are just used to being blamed and it's still my fault you know what you're ahead of the game, you're still alive you're still in the ballgame. God loves you and so it got Wheatley have to get them past that false guilt because that's what it is and they're so used to adjusting like how did I miss this lady at that yesterday was to look in the phone. I like the red flags with their Dr. Clark how the world they were red blankets. How did I miss I said I just asked you about your upbringing. I know exactly why your dad is just like your your soon-to-be ex-husband that's that's what you learned. It's okay, God is okay with that.

Does just do the right thing now. Thanks for joining us today for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. You can find us online@ we have some great resources for you.

You can hear podcast of the program, download the love Najaf and find out about our featured resource today.

It's the book by Dr. David Clark enough is enough.

I step-by-step plan to leave an abusive relationship with God's help, just got a five love Dr. Clark what are some of the lies Satan uses the causes a wife or spouse to stay in abusive relationship That I See A Lot.

Gary, You'll Be Told You You Were Told by by Satan Whispering. This Is What Was Maybe a Pastor, a Christian Counselor. Unfortunately, Just It's Just His His Wounds from the past That That Are Causing You Know This Kind of Behavior. Well, My Response Will Be.

He Can Work on His past That That's a Choice You Can Work on That and He Can Heal.

You Will Be Told He Has a Chemical Imbalance. My Responses Know Is Just Mean. Sorry Chemical Stuff, but If There Is Bipolar, Whatever There Is Medication for That. He Chooses Not to Take It. That's a Choice You Be Told I Need to Forgive and Reconcile Response Their Course. Please Forgive Certainly Reconcile All Know That Depends on the Other Person and If They'll Change or Not.

And of Course They Want to Believe That to Me over Dr. Clark. He Loves Me. I'll Stay Right Away Know He Doesn't and Then They Fight and I Could Look at His Behavior. Let's Talk about What You Just Told Me Boehm Phone Book You Couldn't Prove in a Court of Law Judge in the World That There Is No Evidence of Him, a Loving You.

He Loves Himself. So These Are Lies That Just Perpetuate Keeping Ladies and in This Stuck Position of Just Being Hammered Day in and Day out, You Know, Pick up on That Forgiveness Thing Because in Matthew 18. You Know the Passage Where Jesus Said If Your Brother Sins against You, You, You Go to and If You Repent You for Giving If He Doesn't, You Take Somebody with You and Go to Him Again and If He Doesn't Repent Then You Tell the Church and the Application Is the Church Will Send Somebody Either with You and Then If He Does Repent.

Jesus Did Not Say Forgive Him.

Jesus Said Treat Him As a Pagan Right Right Here with Me and so I Think I like to Use the Word Release You Release Him to God You Release Her to God Because Forgiveness in the Bible It Seems to Me Tell Me If You Think I'm Right. Forgiveness Is Always a Response to an Apology, Its History with God. If We Confess Our Sins, God Is Faithful and Just to Forgive Us Our Sins, God Doesn't Forgive Everybody Has Their Science That You Know This. The Found That Word Release Is Is Much More Meaningful and Is Really What Jesus Did You Know Peter Said about Jesus When They Refiled against Him. He Didn't Revile Back He Committed Himself to the Father.

He Just Turned the Whole Thing over to the Father. Gibson Felt When I Agree I Call It. I Guess I Caught Release Forgiveness. I Think We Talk about the Same Thing. The Land She's Divorced or She's Away from the Guy Separated and She's I the Bible Says I Have To Forgive Us. Okay, Let's Work in a Good Working Reconcile. That's There's Reconciliation, Forgiveness Know He's Not Asking. I Know You Can Walk to the Wounds and You Can Release Him Exactly and That's All You Can Do You Can Do That on Your Own. You Don't Need His Help with Axes I Can Help You See You Doing That for Yourself for the Process of so That You're Not Drinking the Poison All the Time That He's Not Drinking Your Your Releasing Him in Order to Free Yourself up from That Shackle Right Right on These Delays When They Get. I'm I'm Pretty Good at Getting People Angry. I Think That Gift Anyway.

They Say There's out There's a Righteous Anger That They Do Need to Tap into All the Abuse and and How Can I Put up at This and and They Don't Go near Him, but I Have Them Write Things out. We Talk about in Session. We Go to Situations Where You Know That There's the Empty Chair. He Sit in Their All and It's Just like a Volcano Just Pouring out and That's Healthy. That's a Step Two, Releasing so It Doesn't Affect You and Keep Poisoning You. You Talk in the Book You Talk about for Key Action Steps to Take before You Separate from Abuser Texan, Walk Us through Those First of All You You Don't Do This Alone. You Gotta Have It, I Caught a Team of Warriors You This Is Not Something You Do Freelancing. Abigail Didn't You Find a Local Course God's on Your Team.

He's the Main One of Course Always, He'll Always Be with You Supporting Giving You Strength Guiding You Sustaining You to the Holy Spirit Power, but We Have up If You Find a Local Pastor That Gets It That Understand What's Happening If Yours Doesn't, Then Find Another When You May Stay in Your Church Just before Now Because the Kids and You Don't Want to Tip Your Hand but You Find Somebody Else Will Be a Local Pastor in Your Area That Gets It, You Find Him. That's the Church Are Going to Go to. Probably Once You Leave and Accountability Partners Critical Tell Family and Friends. The Truth Delays Have Kept This a Secret behind Closed Doors for Decades Year so You Telling the Truth Now You Dad You You Not to Have Them Confront Your Abuser yet Because That Would Tip Your Hand. This Is a Secret Plan but Let Them Know What's Happening and They'll Be on Board Small Group Can Be Helpful. You'll Get a Tough Family Law Attorney for the Ins and Outs Even for Legal Separation and What Money You Can Take What Money You Can't Take the Custody Issues in the Course of Tough Christian Therapist Someone Friendly like Me Who Gets It like Gary Who Gets It Who Can Understand Marriage Counseling That Were Not Doing That Were Doing You Getting Stronger at the First, Then Emotional Health Is Very Important.

These Ladies Have Just Been Stripped of Self-Esteem. Their Identity Is Shattered. They Have To Rebuild before They Can Ever Think about Leaving so Work on the Codependency Stop.

Even Small Ways You Can Stop Enabling Your Abuser Get in Touch That Righteous Anger. Tell Your Husband I If If You're Able to Do This, Even Financially.

I Went to See the Pastor or Christian Therapist Someone Who Gets a Domino I'm Working on Me. The Abuse Will Be Fine. You Think You're Nuts Anyway and You're the Problem so He Probably Be Okay with That. The Truth Is You're Working to Get Strong Enough to Leave Him. He Doesn't Have To Know That Third Piece Is Financial Health. This Is Critically Important That the Family Law Attorneys for You. Start Your Own Personal Account, You Start Putting Money into Either Warchest You Need Training You Need a Job. These Are Your Stay at Home Mom, You've Got to Get Yourself Prepared Course Attorney Will Tell You What You What You Can Expect in Terms of Temporary Support in This and That What Money You Can Take before You Leave. So This Is a Key Piece Was Your Moving on and You Want to Be Able to Support Yourself. And Finally, in This of Course Very Important for Moms, Especially in That You Get Your Kids Ready to Leave, to Prepare Them the Best Way You Can. This Will Be a Shock to Their Systems. There Used To the Abusive Situation and You Putting up with It. So You Have To Come to Prepare Them and Start Teaching Them Truth in Small Bits As Part of Getting Them to Understand. Oh, This Is Why Mom Has To Leave If You Suddenly Leave and I Don't Know Why They Blame You. We Don't Want That. So Those Are the Four Key Points like You Just Said He Thinks You're Nuts. So What You're Telling If This Is the Wife Than 80%.

You Said That This Is the Wife Situation. He Thinks You're Crazy. The Key for Her, Then, Is to Not Believe Him.

You Have To Believe You're Not Crazy All the Gas Lighting and the Manipulation That He Is Done. You Have To Believe the Truth about This and Be Centered in That in Order to Take the Steps That You Just Talked about the True That's Exactly True I Know and When I Have a Lady When She's First Seeing Me. Oh Yeah, She's She Has Drunk the Poison She Believes It's Her Fault She Has Gone with the Abuser Certainly Gives You That Satan Is on the Job Your Own Children Can Turn against You in the past, or Maybe Some Counselor Told You Know She's Got Her Rework Her Mind and Realize Okay Is Not My Fault It's His Fault, Exactly. I Say the Only Fault for You Ma'am in This and God Forgives You and Working to Move on Here and We Understand Might Happen Is You Been Tolerating It Okay Were Bringing That to a Close, but yet She's She's in No Way Ready. I Look for the Lady Leave Today Will She Can't Do That All All the Preparations Important and Her Thinking Clearly and Biblically Is Critical. I Think Wives Who Are Living in an Abusive Situation and Hear What You Just Said Will Understand How Helpful This Book Can Be. Because You You Lay These Four Steps out and Ideas on How to Process All of This That I Think You're Right. I Don't Think There's I Don't Know of Another Book out There That That Does This in an Open, Honest, Loving, Caring Manner, so I Just Meant I Think What You're Doing in This Book Is a Great Service to Two Ladies Who Are in Abusive Situations.

Well Thanks for Saying so, That Means A Lot Coming from Dr. Gary Chapman.

It Does I Love I Love This, but There There Are Situations That Clark Somebody's Lesson Today She's Got a Black Eye. She Has a Broken Wrist. You Know She's in the Kids Have Been Abused All of Those Things That You Just Put out, You Know, Get Get Counseling and Get People behind You and Financial There Are Some Situations Where You Simply Have To Get in the Car and Go. Is That True.

Oh Yeah, Absolutely Physical Violence. Oh Yeah Allison Will. I Had a Lady Who Lost and I Because She Stayed.

I Want to Leave That Evidently Currently We Were Quick to Get It. But the God Beat Her up Again Now That Point She Left All yet That Working to Have To Speed This up Good Have To Circle the Wagons You're Leaving Now and It's Going to Be an Eager to Call the Cops. I Don't Want to Call the Police. My Husband's Job-I Don't Care about That. You Need a Protective Order so Is A Lot about This Aggressive Moves yet. If There's a Violent Situation. All No Question Working to Get You Out Of That All the Stuff Happens with Its Woman's Shelter or Place to Live It. It's It's a Speeded up Situation but Were Getting Your That's Where Church Is so Incredibly Important to Protect and Guide. And Then All the Healing Will Have To Come after That yet, but Get out and Get out Today and Maybe This Is Partly Why the Church Is Is Afraid to Do This Type of Thing If You're Dealing with This Type of Person, Then They Could Get Violent Not Just to the Wife and the Kids, but to Other People Who Are Trying to Intervene, so They There's a Cost of This All-Around Is Oh Yeah You Know What You Just Have To I Will Tell Pastor Judy to Man up, Look, I'm Sorry, This Is yet There Is Risk Here. You Know What Were Protecting Someone God Is Fully Capable of Protection but yet These Are Scary Guys All yet, the Violent People All Yeah and If Whoever Helps His Wife yet You're out There's a List and Year on It but You Know What You Not to Do It Is Actually Sin to Turn the Other Way When Someone's in the Road Broken Bleeding.

We Have To Step up and We Have To Health and If We Have and We Have a Group yet Then Addenda the Guy Will Typically Back off and and You Know Go down the Road. This Is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, Author of the New York Times Bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" You Can Find Simple Ways to Strengthen Relationships on Our Website. Five Love Dr. David Clark Is Joining Us Today and You'll See His Book Linked at Our Side. It's Titled Enough Is Enough Step-By-Step Plan to Leave an Abusive Relationship with God's Help, Find out more at Dr. we talked in our last session about steps to take before your moving out of an abusive relationship.

Let's say that the wife has actually physically moved out of the house to help children. The children are with her.

What you do after you separate from the abuser.

First month is really very minimal contact with the abuser and only through your selected intermediaries and have nothing to do with them. You're in the work there with the people. This first month is critical so you and the kids can get settled in Connecticut begin building your new life plus reporting pressure.

Frankly on the abuser, you're not kidding.

And the message to him is your wife is done through your pastor or your accountability partner and then if this is a big if. If he's making noises of of actual repentance, not yet. He's in a rage is blaming you and I can't believe it okay that you don't even bother, but if he's making noises of repentance. Okay then at that point we go through Matthew 1815 to 17 process.

The Gary mentioned earlier work on yet never going to give him an opportunity to change now.

The one caveat here is in the attorney will help you if there's children of all tears every legal right to let she's a violent person to to see the children protective order you.

You'll work it out and he can see the kitchen I can to prevent from seeing the children but that first month is about drive him nuts. He'll be blowing up your phone.

He wants to get you back. He wants to get you back to really make you pay.

So you just ignore him and got a visa into the process and then you're just observing and you're seeing what his demeanor and attitude seems like you're taking care of yourself at this place and that's the only thing that you you're not trying to take care of him at all. Right. Hopefully he's already done that work to realize this is not about you often have to do a million ladies this is about you now. You made about him for 30 years 25 years 12 years. Whatever.

13 now it's about you and your children and it's about time.

His time will come if he responds with noises of repentance.

Okay, you're still talking to believe that you're really cynical and you'll stay away from them, but will give them a chance and if he genuinely is repenting, which means to turn away from the behavior he will reach out for counseling and help himself right okay well this is an adult man he he'll know what to do.

He will he will make a beeline to his pastor and tell that pastor the truth to rescind all the lies he stated to find a Christian therapist. He will walk with the Lord shall go to a men's group he will. Repentance is always the same. It's consistent.

It never wavers it never changes. God of course will be a key part of that that's what you're looking for you. He will swing into gear and you'll do it fast and were always hoping for where hoping for reconciliation which we will reconciliation has to be repentance order to have reconciliation right. How many ladies that we see Gary go back if they do separate or they get tougher well and then they go back and it's just worse is good for a week. He's good for two weeks okay then say multi-go back to soon before there's been real change right this time working to make sure 789 months he is going to be the next Billy Graham or you're not can have anything to do with me. Is this Dr. Clark how can family and friends and church members help in this process that can be absolutely vital. This is part of this team of warriors spiritual support emotional support and I tell these people believe her believe what she's saying, you know her. She's not a liar. These these narcissists can convince your own family that it's you and not him. It's unbelievable what I say let you give you give your family attend if they don't believe you that you cut them off. You're gonna find people that believe you, and practically speaking, Jesus talks about this in the New Testament you if you're gonna help somebody help them.

Do you need money.

Here's money need a place to stay.

I got that for you in the clothing unit food. You need insurance. Look, that's what the church is for. Let's step forward and there's many godly saying to these churches that have they retired.

They have more money they this will be a wonderful ministry to Stephanie go you know what this is and alone. This is a gift we we we are giving out of our excess and working to help you. This will make a tremendous difference help remove show up she might you be fearful of the abuser being around, look whatever it everything can be done with that with a team of warriors.

Man, that's a huge advantage. In fact, I would guess that would be very very difficult for a wife to take that step. If she doesn't have some people who are really with her understand her and her helping her in the process right, she's she sipping nothing to do it to be unable to do it in your in your judgment, how how often does abuser actually repent and follow through with that and change and then there's genuine reconciliation not often in 35 years I've had a handful out of the hundreds of people I work with.

Maybe the low thousands yeah 56 it's it's 4 to 6%, and that might be high that that's the bad news, but the goodness is I don't make that we would love to have that your guy be that guy. But yeah, that's a low number. I just had a couple after one year of separation there back together and they been back together now for six months and they're just doing great you wonderful.

It's wonderful when you see it happen in their. Oh yeah, it is now. There's a chapter in the book called. Here's how to win me back tell us about that chapter. This is if the man you left and he is actually looking like he's breaking repenting that you're skeptical but it looks like okay mate. Maybe he's good. He hasn't on the things I expected and maybe he's exit going okay through one of your support team members are going to give him a list of the course of the book, eight items okay you say repentant.

Here's how you prove it.

And these are things and only proof repentance, but there actually things he needs to do.

I mean boom boom boom and there were no negotiation and the messages that I am not giving you any guarantees you could do all eight and it might not make any diff.

We put them into a corner and we don't let them out. You want some guarantee.

No guarantees.

You can do all this and I and I might still not want you back so the right guy wouldn't that wouldn't stop. I can run to this book if you want it even a see a Christian license therapist once a week for a minimum of six months to find out why you are abusively to fix your problem and you can assign a release so I can get updates from the therapist. I want to know I want to know what's going on number two guy has to write a complete history.

The abuser of how he has abused you 20 pages detail with with why and how. Here's what I've done I'd there's no excuse. This is a root uses confession of sin. Most of course will not do that. Tough sleep.

I have a guy says well but that might be you might read to somebody else or use it in court are so yeah who cares you and care you not repentant because she just said that. Get out of my office that that's the wrong answer. If you put on the TV knows if I want my wife back let the world know that's repentance. And of course you goes on what you tell the truth of how you abuse me to everybody you have like to and let me know and and have them call me pastor, church leaders, family, friends celebrate recovery group. Another great idea.

You're to be involved in go through a step study course there's a spiritual growth component in church spiritual program discipleship one godly men hold you accountable number six you fully support me and the kids financially. There'll be no trouble for support in any way and number eight really kills him. You will sign a legal document agreed to a fair and equitable to this division of our assets in a custody agreement in the event of divorce.

Know what I want divorce, but here it's a legal thing. Here's what's gonna happen. The right guy will do all those and and he won't even kick and scream if there's any blowback.

He's not changing. I think our listeners can see how helpful this book is, I will ask one further questions we come to the close of our interview. What you say to the abuser who may be listening to this program today.

I say look in the mirror and and if this is resonating with you, the Holy Spirit's talking to you admit you are an abuser. That's the first step and begin a process of brokenness before the Lord and I want you if you got the cuts go to your spouse today and say honey hurt Dr. Chapman.

This Clark guy with an E on the end and there talking and I think I think I'm at abuse right they have.

I emotionally abused you, that's the question and if she says yes oh you believer and you start getting help you start you can turn the whole thing around without actually having to have her leave you, you could be a wonderful success story, God loves restoration were all sinners. It could happen but you have to man up or woman up and admit the truth he gets to parliament thank you for being with us on the program today. Let me thank you for writing this book.

I think it's going to be helpful to many people and thank you for the 35 years you spent working with marriage and crisis so but God continue to give you wisdom.

Thank you so much.

I gotta make it to 50 now come to find out and I thank you, along with many others. All the work that you do love you and respect you and your making a huge difference.

Thank you.

One important topic today with Dr. David Clark. Find out more about him. Five love The book is enough is enough step-by-step plan to leave an abusive relationship with God again. Five love is a website final best broadcast of Building Relationships comes your way.

One you make sense of what heels sense Jenae details the tragic loss of a big thank you to our production team. Steve and Janice backing Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman's radio in association with ministry at

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