This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Welcome to Man Talk Radio. I'm Will Hardy, the black guy.
And I'm Roy Jones, the white guy. And you know, Roy, we were talking last week with a minister candidate who was back with us in reference to all the things that we have seen in the media, news media with George Floyd, and we talked about what some of the issues we felt was, and we talked about how all policemen are not, you know, bad people and don't do the things that this police officer did in Minnesota. And I want to address something before we start getting into the conversation.
It's something we were talking about off the air when a minister candidate mentioned it. And in Exodus chapter one, and I shared this with on the CFG, in Exodus chapter one, what Pharaoh did, and you were talking about, minister candidate, about that power and authority that an individual would exhibit. And so what he did is he said he went to the, well, he oppressed the Israelites. And the word of God says the more he oppressed them, beginning with verse eight, the more he oppressed them, the stronger they grew. And they began to grow more and they began to grow more. And then he said, wow, they're getting too big.
It's a whole lot of them out here now. So what's going to happen if they align themselves with our enemy and then all of a sudden they attack us and they put us in slavery? So he's thinking about the control, that control factor. The next thing he did was he went to the midwives and he called two of the midwives and he said, okay, when a male child is born, I want you to kill it. Kill the male child. And so they said, we fear God more than Pharaoh.
We ain't doing this. And so they began to grow. Then he took it one step further.
He said, okay, round up all of the men and the boys that are born and throw them in the river. So you see this, this sort of like step in elevation of oppression and the vigor because he simply wanted to keep the numbers manageable. And that's what you do when you a leader and you fear that if the people who you are oppressing get bigger than you, that's a fear.
Now I'm not equating this to what is happening today. I'm just putting it out here as this is what the word of God says that Pharaoh did to the children of Israel. And ultimately God watched over them. They began to grow, multiply. And then finally the plagues come.
We all know the story. You know, Aaron and Moses going to Pharaoh saying, let my people go. So, you know, a lot of what we see is, and Minister Kennedy was talking about this earlier on last week's show, on how this is a period of many, many years. So we are seeing many, many years of what has happened and it's carried forward to what we see today. And if I can put something else in on, you know, slavery in the Old Testament, you came through slavery about two different ways.
One of them was you signed up for it. You know, you go borrow or you borrow. This is why scripture says don't borrow. You borrow and you are subject to them.
Right? The other one is you go through slavery through a war. You know, when you lose a war, whatever's there, you become a slave to the kings that won the war.
So those are two things for slavery. This American slavery that we've been experiencing, that's not biblical at all. There's no, so what you have us now, you have historical trauma that we're living in right now. Historical trauma from the past 400 something years, you know, and we ain't been out that long. You know what I'm saying? So it's historical trauma.
See, so I know we was talking about the rioting and all that stuff. Now, I look at it in a different sense. Of course, we know that's not scripture. God is not for that. God is not into that. God speaks against that. But then you have to also understand that in that process, you're talking about looting, breaking windows, some deaths, you know, and all this other stuff. But that still doesn't compare to the 400 years of this historical trauma.
See, so what you got, you have a boiling point. You know, there was one scripture, there was one scripture in the Bible that I could never understand. I read the Bible. I studied the Bible.
I went through everything. It was the one scripture in Revelation when he said, when he's talking about the two prophets, and he said they're going to be killed and stoned. And he said everybody is going to see it at one time. And I was like, how are they going to do that? This is before the cell phones. I'm like, well, how are they going to do that? But see, now I see this phone here, these camera phones. Man, everybody's saying everything like instantly.
So I understand how scripture fulfills itself. But then, you know, and that's what we got going on. We have multiple. And this is why this is so big right now. It's not just the black people. It's Caucasian people. They're standing with us.
It's Asians. It's the world that's standing with us. And I think that's where the big key is at right now. So, well, you know, all of what I think we have seen and we need to talk to our children. We need to bring about programs within the four walls of our local building because that building is not the church.
That's why I say local building. We need to because this children, preteens, teens, young adults, they all have questions. They all have questions. Why is this happening? And, you know, when you were speaking about all of those years of oppression, and I mentioned this again during our CFG, is that the 13th Amendment, 14th and 15th Amendment was supposed to, number one, 13th Amendment was supposed to abolish slavery. The 14th Amendment gave everyone the right under the Constitution. Whatever the Constitution said, you know, as a citizen, a naturalized citizen, slaves included, that you had these rights under the Constitution. Of course, the 15th Amendment allowed the right to vote. But all of that, even though that was in the Constitution, and this is why we were talking about earlier that you can't legislate this. Because, see, that was legislation. That was legislation that came out to say you have these rights, but yet they didn't happen after the Civil War.
Why? Execution without a strategy. Exactly. See, and the individuals who were holding on during the South, they didn't want to let this up. So right after the war had ended, you had these three constitutional amendments come out. But then, for example, the right to vote, because you had what was known as black codes, and the black codes turned into Jim Crow laws. And the black codes and the Jim Crow laws, they were there basically to keep the black man at bay so he could continue to be an indentured servant.
That was basically, it's a whole lot of other things in there, too, but that was basically why these codes were permitted. And so now, they didn't want to let it go. So now, you have the black man who is out there, and he's going, wait a minute, we're holding offices because they did hold office, public office, you know, in the mid-1800s, held public office.
But nothing would go through because they were the minority, and so as much things as they would bring up, it was like, well, this thing is going to get beat down, you know, just because of where we sit. And then, the right to vote, how many times have we seen again in history, and this is all based on the 400 years that Minister Kennedy was talking about. How many times have we seen the Jim Crow laws enacted until a man by the name of Martin Luther King came along and said, you know, we got to stop this. And then, the Civil Rights Act came about, which allowed the black man of almost 100 years, almost 100 years from the time the Jim Crow laws ceased till the Civil Rights Movement. And that's just a little history.
I didn't mean to go off into the history. No, you know, systemic racism, it exists, and the thing about it is, there's a lot of people that gained from that, and then there's that many more that were hurt by that. See, so you got those running on the same playing field, you know, and that's why my thing is police reform.
You have to have a different face, you have to create a different look for your police, you have to create a different, you know, I don't want to say a restitution or anything like that, but the bottom line is, if individuals can't say, wow, what you guys went through is totally wrong. And you need, just by saying, you know, man, I had a couple of my friends call me this week with all this going on, and they just said, hey man, you know, I want you to know that I'm there for you. And you know, and that was encouraging, you know, and it's the simplistic things, you know, but it's an individual thing.
And we all know scripture, this stuff is going to be here. Absolutely. And as long as the individual start changing their mindset, because there's some people that don't feel like nothing is wrong.
Absolutely. And the thing is, just because you don't feel the problem, don't mean that the problem don't exist. Well, that's a problem society in general, right? I mean, if it's not in your backyard, most people don't pay attention to it. And the only reason most people pay attention to this now is because it's visible, it's on the news, it's been publicized, it's affecting just about all the major cities across the country.
So they can't help but pay attention. But I mean, just like with anything, we can go back through time that people are just, I won't say ignorant, they're just complacent to what's going on that's not outside, or that is outside of their particular arena. And that goes back to where I think we've lost a lot with these phones as we talked about. You know, you don't have conversations with each other anymore. You don't go visit your neighbor.
You don't, you know, when's the last time you had a neighborhood cookout? So I mean, that's the point. So, and then again, I'll put this back out there to lead us into the next half. You know, first off, nobody's ever going to be perfect.
They're not all going to do it right. But if we go back to, if we could get back to teaching core values, value of life, and you don't break the law first, core values, and you love your neighbor. Amen? Amen. We'll be back with in just a few moments. Thank you so much for joining us. You're welcome. Thank you. Welcome back to the show. And Dwayne, it's so good to have you here again. I want to say thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. It's a blessing.
It's a blessing. But back to what we said right before the break. Folks, you know, it's a value of life and there is a right and wrong. And we've talked about this offline, that there is a right and wrong, but society today would tell you that wrong is now right. And I mean, and this goes, and the issue we're talking about at hand as you were talking about earlier goes back for centuries. But there's one thing that we all agree upon, and we're all in accord even through this conversation.
I want everybody to know that. We love each other and we're serving God together, is that we can't change one thing about the past. And you know, the rearview mirror is small for a reason.
It's just there as a reference point. It's not to constantly go back and live that over. And we all know we can't change the one thing that we did yesterday or last year or ten years ago, but we can impact the decisions we make moving forward.
And that's how we're going to affect change. And Dwayne, I think you said it earlier, maybe it was offline, but about forgiveness. We've got to be willing to forgive people.
And biblically speaking, do you want grace, like Christ extended to us and died for us because we didn't deserve it, or do you want justice? So I think that's something we, listeners, you need to be a part of this, is that it's got to be about grace. Recognize the failure, recognize the wrong, but then how is it going to change moving forward? And it's going to require everybody to change.
It's not, like you said, Dwayne, it's not just a black, white, it's not just an Asian, a non-Asian. It's all people have got to change. And we've got to get this addressed holistically. If people start loving each other, as Christ has commanded us to do, to love your neighbor, then you won't do any of this other stuff.
You won't do any of this other stuff. And that's the thing. How do you get an individual to start loving a man who he has, you know, hate for? See, that's the thing. To get us together and first talking and then you talk, you don't talk to the individual, you talk about the issue, and then you let the love of God and the word of God penetrate that thick skin of the individual, permeate to their heart, and then that, in turn, will put that seed in there. Now, which individual are you talking about? I'm talking about the individual, okay, you got two individuals. You got the one who's the born-again believer and you got the one who we're talking about. The unbeliever. The unbeliever.
The individual who has hate for all men. Right. And see, we understand, we who are born again, so I guess I'm going to have to make sure I say that. We who are born again, when we go to the unbeliever, our message should always be the message of Jesus Christ.
It should be. In every sense of the word. So, again, if you have one individual over here who is harboring the hatred and another individual who is harboring the hatred, and then you see those two individuals yelling at each other like we see on the nightly news, then when we see that, it's like, how do I go and be the arms, legs, eyes, and ears of Jesus Christ as a message to convey to these individuals?
Well, you know, I put an answer on that. The church today, we are morally conscious. We are conscious about the laws of the Lord, the will of God. We are conscious about that, but we also have to be socially conscious. And I think there's so many people that are morally conscious in the church, abiding by the words and the laws of God, but they're not socially conscious.
They don't see all of the social stuff, mainly stuff, because it doesn't affect them. But we have to, in the book of Proverbs, Proverbs 31, 8 through 9, it speaks on that. We have to be the voice. We have to be the voice. Now, I think if more people stand up, and I say it's an individual thing, because it's the individual that has to stand up, you know? But now when all the individuals come together corporately, you know, now we can move some things, but the individual first has to change, just like in our walk with God.
He deals with us individually, but we have a lot of moral conscious Christians, but they're not social conscious Christians. We have to understand and identify. That's why empathy is so important to me, is that because that takes you and puts you in that person's situation. You have a better understanding. And all you got to do is look at the reality. I mean, you know, if I came up and took your kid, you know what I'm saying? And you don't have any will, you don't have any say so, it's done.
I want your kid, that's it. I mean, and we're talking about, so it's a lot of hurt and all that stuff, but I think the scripture tells us a soft voice, you know, instead of the fast track, a soft voice will turn things around. Now, it might not be immediately, and you might get your heads well, you know what I'm saying? But those are principles that we need to live by, be morally conscious and also social conscious. Well, let's talk about the elephant in the room, that is that, you know, Sunday's the most segregated day of the week still yet, and Martin Luther King, I believe, even commented on that originally, and here we are, what, 50, 60 years later, and it's no different. Now, there are some churches out there that are trying to make a difference.
We're trying to make a difference as a men's organization, but we've still got ways to go, and we just trust that God will continue to do that. Folks, if you're listening to the program, and like I challenged the men back in February, when was the last time you had dinner with a person of a different color than you were? I was speaking to the whole room, and when was the last time you had lunch with someone of a different color? And then when was the last time you socialized with someone that looked different than you? And I ask you as a listener the same question, because it's only going to change when the body of Christ changes, and when the body of Christ says it's okay to be segregated, it's okay to run two different churches, and it's okay not to socialize, guess what?
What do you think Satan's going to do with the world? And just for the record, Roy introduced me to some Thai food before. I'll tell you, it was off the train. I loved it. We had a nice lunch.
I was just like, oh, I had a bag to go. Oh, yeah. There you go.
See, I'm a man that believes in you. Don't talk unless you've experienced it. Absolutely.
Absolutely. And these times, you know, the whole spectrum of what we see, it has to come back to how do we as believers communicate the message to the individuals so that we can start talking. And, you know, last night, I think I shared off of the air, last night over at Mount Zion, they had a Zoom meeting, and one of the members from the Christian Fellowship Group sent an electronic flyer to me. And so I listened from 7 o'clock to almost 8.45, and they had a judge on there. They had an attorney on there. They had a state representative on there. They had an individual who was an activist for African American rights. I mean, a couple, two or three pastors, Mark Walker was on there, representative from North Carolina. And so all these individuals on here, and, of course, when Bishop, who was over there at Mount Zion, he wasn't pulling no punches in reference to the questions. And there was individuals, and I could see their face. They felt uncomfortable. And before he went on, that's what he said. He said, this forum that we have tonight is not to make you comfortable.
It's to make you uncomfortable. And when you step out of your comfort zone is when you say, now I'm able to go out and have an empathetic heart and be able to go out with a newfound understanding that I got wisdom of God to go out to say, individuals, let's start this. Let's start the dialogue at this level, and we just believe, God, that it's going to fly. You know, that's why I love the scriptures. The scriptures, they don't point out nationality, race. I mean, there's some issues where they do for specific reasons. But like, for instance, Paul Apollos was a black guy.
The scriptures don't highlight that because there's no need. And until people start seeing people for people, it's not like a black man, it's a white man. I mean, but this is what we see.
So we see what we see in front of us. Like over in Asia, you got the same issues that goes on here with two Asian groups. You have the same issue in Russia, two Caucasian groups.
You know, you have it in Africa, you know what I mean, hating each other. So it's a people's heart thing. So until we get to the place where we can change people's heart and like what you're doing with your broadcast, this is changing people's heart because the Bible says the Word of God will not return unto and void, right? So it's going to accomplish what it set out to do. We need to believe that and just do what we're doing. And it's an individual. We're touching one person at a time, you know, and we may not, and we know, we are Bible believers, we know that it ain't going, you know what I mean, it's going to be here, it ain't going away. But as long as we put ourself to touch somebody, someone gets some more information to change their way of thinking, and that's all we can do.
One water, one planet, but God get the increase. That's right, that's right. So I love the Word. The Bible's real, you know, and you know what, racism is in the Scripture. A lot of people look at Jonah and the belly of the whale as the storyline. Jonah was prejudiced. Yes, he was. He hated them folks. Yes, he was. A lot of people say, you know, Jonah was safe. He was already doing the work of the Lord, but he didn't want to go minister to them folks.
You know what I mean? Because he knew what was waiting on him. Exactly.
So he knew what potentially was going to happen to him. I don't think any of us would have been wanting to go either, knowing the way they're treating those people. Exactly, and you know, Roy, what you were saying on last week's show in reference to why we don't see and hear about all the abortions that's going on in the world, all of the white on white type of crime, and that's because it doesn't sell.
See, we are in this society that it needs to sell, so what sells is when you have race versus race. Yeah, and that's a good point, Will, for closing out. And with that, you need to take with a grain of salt, not everything you read, see, or hear is 100% accurate. That's right.
We're doing the research behind it, and we'll talk about that on the next show, a couple of pictures that I was shared with earlier that a guy gave me the backdrop. So hey, if you're listening to the show, we always want you to have the opportunity to accept the Father as your personal Savior. Jesus Christ died for you. All you've got to do is admit being a sinner. Ask Jesus into your heart. The Father sent the Son to be your Savior, and if you have done that and want a place of fellowship or worship, contact us. We'll get you connected if you're not in the church. God bless you. Don't let another day pass because tomorrow may not come, and you need to make a decision today. Amen.
Amen to that. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches, and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk.
