Conversation with David, why are so many going to hell?

Ooh, ooh, ooh Ooh, la da da da da da da da da Hallelujah God ruler of the universe, you are. There is no No one like you, God giver of the deepest dreams you are. There is no one like you God thinker of tremendous thoughts you are Thinking Friendly towards me, God royal. Holy true, you are, and there is no one like you. Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah.

Welcome to Love Never Fails. In these last days, revival will come, but begins with our individual walk and personal relationship with Jesus. Let's join Brother John now. Angels proclaim.

Well, good afternoon. This is Brother John. We're so glad you're listening to Love Never Fails. And We're going to do something a little different. We haven't done this in a while.

To have a conversation with our good friend David here. Say hi, David. Hey, how are you guys doing today? Good morning.

So, long story short, this is just going to go on Spotify. This is not going to go on the radio station. You can listen to the radio at 94-7 Vision Radio. Belize, if you want to listen to episodes there. But if you go to Spotify, you can find it numerous.

What we're trying to do is develop a library of topics and questions that people may have. And that you can listen to, and hopefully, it'll bless you and help you to learn. We do everything from the basis of God is love, but God is also truth, and He is the Word. And those are Two of the three things there, really it's all. All three of them plus mercy.

If you study the word What you find out, there's only three things besides God Himself who cannot fail, and that's His love, His mercy, and His word. But love and truth can never be separated, and God is also the truth. And so, just right off the bat, we want to define something, and that is what a lot of people call love and truth is not God's kind of love. Or God's God's truth.

So David has some questions he's going to ask, and we're going to talk about those questions and see if we can help answer them. And so, right before we start a recording, David, I asked you what's probably the most Popular question that you get. And go ahead and share that with us. All right, so one of the most popular questions that I've always seemed to have gotten the most is, If God is love, why does He send you to hell? And you know.

So many people they think that, oh, you know, that If you do bad, that's just gonna send you to hell. If you do good, that's automatically gonna send you to heaven. Ultimately, what I try to tell everybody is. It's not God who sends ye to hell. It's you separating yourself from God that sends you to hell.

Because God gives you every chance, He gives you all the love, the opportunity to turn away from. From the separation from him and just gain a much closer relationship with him. The Bible says that his mercy and grace renews every single morning.

So. There's also the fact of That people say, well, if you do this and if you do that, that's gonna send you to hell. Breaking the rules. Breaking the rules. Breaking the rules.

Breaking rules. And so. R hello. is used 54 times in the Bible. Heaven is used like 580 times in the Bible.

Okay?

So the It would seem that the focus should be on heaven. Yes. And in reality, and this is something you and I were talking about in the car the other day. In reality, the focus, the goal of what we call Christianity, this way. Um Is not heaven or hell.

It's the presence of God. The relationship. And one way to define hell, other than the location of Sheol, however it's said in the word, yeah, or even Hades. One definition of hell is separation from God. Yep, the eternal.

And so many people, earth. Is the closest to heaven they're ever going to get. But for other people And should be believers, this is as close to hell as we ever get. Right. Um.

And the problem is is that The church And I'm going to call it, say it's the Western Mindset Church, because I don't know. That's one of those things. I can't pick up a history book about the church and figure it out. I don't know if the topic of hell became, you know, you're going to go to hell, you're going to go to hell, you're going to go to hell. And Fire and Brimstone became so popular, maybe coming out of the Dark Ages.

Was it propaganda from the medieval or even the. Early Catholic Church, in order to control people with fear? Yeah, I was going to say that I have noticed in a lot of different religions or a lot of different denominations that I've either had friends in or that I've had family members be a part of, and the stuff that they would try to preach on or try to share with people, it was almost to instill a fear. That's right. And most religions.

Which are man-made. operate on fear Yeah. Success. Let me call it, say it that way because a proper word for that's not coming to mind. But having traveled the world, that's one of the things you see is every religion that I'm aware of has some sort of reward or failure at the end of it.

Yes. You know, and that's the thing is that. Christianity you'd Are not supposed to have to wait until physical death to receive that reward. Exactly. And that's part of the problem with our church as a whole.

I remember when I got saved right out of high school in the 80s. It was because I went to see a play called Heaven's Gates. Or heaven's Or those rights. Heaven's gates or heaven's or hell's flames. Heaven's gates, hell's flames.

Man, it was good. And I went with my best friends and I went running to the altar. They did not.

Now, one of the things is prior to that. Uh I was already gaining an interest in in the Bible. My mother would actually have us read the Bible anytime we got in trouble. And I loved it. I was like, oh, you know.

And I started to begin to realize some things long before I ever prayed a sinner's prayer that there was. Let's say it in the unsaved, unrenewed mindset at that time, because I had no idea. What Christianity was, is that there was like a magic or a power to reading the word. That made my school day go better. Yeah, I was the kid that my growth was stunted.

I graduated high school. I was only like 5'7 ⁇ , 5'8. Maybe when I went into the military, I had managed to get to 5'11. And by the time I got out of basic training, I was 6'2. And so the only thing that changed between those is I got saved in the summer before I went in the military.

And that summer before I went to the military, we were invited to Heaven's Gates, Hells Flames in September, and I went into military. later after that. I ran to the altar. I was like, I'm not going to hell. It was a fire and brimstone type of.

Production. And it was very successful. Very. current for its time. Actually, it was it was pressing Uh it was pressing the uh So we had to pause there to take a phone call.

And I'm okay. You know, people were, oh, you know, we did a radio show in Belize. You could literally hear dogs and chickens in the background. And if you're listening, we were actually on a job site being rained out. We're sitting in our RV trying to stay dry.

We're both wet. Trying to stay dry. And so we were like, let's record these question and answer type broadcasts. And so to pick up where we were, the. When I got saved, it was a hellfire and brimstone.

And it turned into exactly what you were talking about: all the rules and regulations. And I would argue with the youth pastor: well, why can't I do this? Why can't I play cards? Why can't I watch this? Why can't.

Why can't I go dancing? Yeah. You know, things like that. And, you know, and then I went to the military and. while I was at the Gulf War, I was studying Reading the word.

I would read the word by moonlight in my foxhole. And I remember saying to God one night, What I read in this book. Is so different from what I'm experiencing in real life. Yeah, I was like, something is wrong. Either this book is wrong.

Which at that point I knew enough to know it's not wrong because I felt the presence of God by then.

Well, God's word is never gonna mislead you or is it gonna lie to you? That's right. And yet. Everything I was hearing from these. Preachers, for lack of I don't want that to be a blanket statement because there are some really good ministers.

I'm part of a fellowship that just great men and women. We've got a few knuckleheads in there, but for the most part, just great, godly people. Yes, sir. And I've been around the world and I've met some of these. godly people, you know, and for every ten knuckleheads, the one One good one helps restore your faith.

And you can fellowship with them. You can learn from them. And so I don't knock all preachers, but there's a reason why there's over 240 verses in the Bible warning us about bad preachers.

So, anyway, to get back on track. And so, um, For me Christianity my first several years. was about Will I disappoint God or will I make a mistake and end up in hell? It stays in the back of your mind the entire time. And it's like, wait a second, if I got born again, why am I concerned about hell?

Well, the Bible says that once you're born again, you're born a new creature in Christ. But. We've got this thing called a brain, yeah, and that brain is where it's the gate, yeah. And you know, we've done episodes about the battlefield of the mind, yeah, and renewing your mind, and The brain is where all that junk comes in. I heard a preacher once say that thoughts may come and thoughts may go, and thoughts may persist and stain.

But thoughts that don't get acted on and don't get spoken out die unborn. Die unborn. And right now, just a brief. Synopsis of renewing your mind without going into a bunch of scripture. I'm coaching my youngest son now baseball.

And we're going to the workout in the cage, and he's taking 200 pitches a session. Oh, yeah. And the first 50 pitches, I'm all over him. And this past Sunday I was like I started throwing them the next 50 coming through the machine. And I said, okay.

I'm done talking to you. And by the 100th pitch, I was like. I told him, I said, if I'm not putting a ball in this machine unless I hear you talking, you coaching yourself.

Now, I couldn't hear what he was saying. But I could hear the mumble. And there were a couple of times I didn't drop the ball because. I couldn't hear him. He goes, What are you waiting on, Dad?

I said, I'm waiting to hear you. Yeah. And he goes, I mumbled. I said, I didn't hear it. Yeah.

And so. Part of that is in teaching him to be a good batter. Yeah. And we talked about this yesterday: is a lot of Christians live like a batter who's in a slump. Yes.

And in the back of their mind, I'm going to strike out. I'm going to strike out. And then what do they do? They strike out. They're in a slump.

He was in a slump. And the game before we started working out together, because before that, I coached high school, college, all this, and other kids, my own kids. But he's my youngest. He didn't want me to do it.

Now he's like, he went over four. He goes, Dad, I need help. Oh, yeah. So now we're employing all the techniques that I know to employ. One of which is you've got to talk to yourself.

That bad batter who's in a slump, in the back of his mind, he's thinking about striking out. He's worried about striking out. He's worried about, as a Christian, going to hell. Oh, yeah. But if he starts talking, And speaking Like I'm teaching them to do, and I've done this with athletes for years is Now, when you begin to speak, it controls your mind.

Because when you're talking, you can think, but you're thinking in line with what you're saying. And if you have bad thoughts coming through your head, the best thing you can do is start speaking a scripture. Yeah. Oh, 100%. I mean, there's so many times where, like, so just kind of like a little runner-up of the way I was kind of brought up and a little bit of my back history.

So. I was raised up in a certain denomination, but I still remember that when I was give or take around seven, eight years old, one of the very first things that I remember them teaching was that once you sinned, you were going to go to hell.

So that struck a big fear in my mind, and it was always in the back of my mind constantly, constantly. And so. When I got old enough to realize My God, I I've sinned. I'm gonna go to hell. Yeah.

It instilled such a fear to me that I was like, I can't go back to God now. Yeah. I can't. Yeah. You know, then I went into depression and stuff because a certain.

Situations that were going in my household. I fell into such depression that at the age of like I want to say somewhere around middle school, middle school ages, I became gang-affiliated. Right. I started doing. Gang-affiliated situation stuff that I used.

Yeah. You know. Uh, you know, selling drugs and stuff like that and and At that point, I was like, well, church isn't for me anymore. You know, then later on, I got into alcohol really bad. And it wasn't until I met my wife when we first started dating.

I remember she invited me to church, and multiple times I kept putting it off. Nah, nah, it ain't right for me right now. And finally, one day she goes, Well, why don't you go to church with me? I said I told her and I said, listen, I said, Church isn't for me, honey. I said, I was taught that once you sinned, there was no salvation after that.

So what is the point for me now to go to church? And if I'm still gonna go to hell, I would look like a hypocrite. Right. So it wasn't until she looked at me. and I remember she was doing her make up, and she told me, she said, You really don't know the word of God, do you?

I said, Well, what are you talking about? I mean, I went to church and all that stuff. She goes, No. She goes, You don't know the love of God. Yeah, that hasn't been put upon you yet.

Wow. She goes, You don't know the forgiveness. You don't know the mercy that He gives for you. You don't know the fact that He forgives you 70 times, seven, and even more in a day. Wow.

And so that was when the light switched for me. And I was like, All right, you know what? Let's give it a shot. Yeah. Let's give it a shot.

Right?

So it still took. About three churches. And me being church hurt and all that stuff. And I was fixing to be like, you know what? See, I kind of told you.

But it wasn't until we've reached this one church in particular. Right. And at that church, that is the one church where I can honestly say. I felt the presence of God come upon me. I felt the love of God come upon me.

I've cried just recklessly because I was like, what is going on right now? What is this? Why do I just feel So terrible for even saying Why would I even go to church? Or why would I even go to God about anything?

So now instead of just even. Thinking about what could go wrong is God, I just praise you for what's fixing to happen. Right. God, I may not know what the future holds for me. I may not understand what certain circumstances may look like or why they look the way they do.

But I'm trusting you the entire way through. You know, and scripture really has helped out a lot with that because. I was told also that if you do this, if you do that, again, going back to the rule breaking, I was going to go to hell.

So I was like, well, what kind of God is this? You know? And so that puts it in, and it goes to many people where I've had friends even tell me, well, I've been hearing this from family members. I've been hearing that from family members. And I've always told them the same thing.

I said, well, just remember this. I said, God, his mercy and his grace. I said, they renew every morning. Yep. I said, he gives you every single chance for you to come back to him.

I said, all he, I said, I've asked him, I said, do you know how to pray? They said, no, I've never really tried to because. What if I'm wrong with it? What if I don't do it correctly? Yeah.

And I've told him, I said, look. I said it's just as simple as just Laying out, just having the little conversation, laying out kind of what you're feeling to him. I said, to a regular person or a stranger, it may sound like something that might be boring, maybe just very unconvenient to them. Like they could just look at you and be like, Look, dude, I could care less of what you're telling me. But to God, to God, that is just one of the most amazing things for him because it's the fact that you're taking the time and you're taking the consideration of letting him get involved in your life.

It's the moment where he's just like, Yes, my child, you know, lay it on me, tell me what you need. You know, let me help you through it. One thing. that I hear You and I I used to think That I was different. Yeah.

That I was different from everyone else. And then I come to realize, and and the internet probably has some To do with this. You know, I remember I was asked to go get involved in politics. I said, no way. They said, why?

I said, I've got skeletons in my closet. What kind of skeletons do you have? I said, well, I mean, you know, I defaulted on my student loans and they laughed at me. They're like, dude, everybody has financial problems. And the way they, and the conversation went on, but I left there going, oh, wow.

Why have I been living in shame about having debt? Yeah. That's what the world wants. It's part of the control system.

So, why does the church keep preaching sin? The sin nature. It's part of the control system.

Because if they can, and I wrote about this in my book, Why Are the Fishermen Eating the Bait? It creates neurotic Christians. And so, what happens is we've got people all over America who literally are neurotic concerning. Their walk with God. One day they're on, one day they're off, or they just give up altogether.

And the goal of all that is to get them to give up. But the neurosis is created by this: the rules, the rules, the rules. And then you go to church on Sunday morning. Last week they talked about. I don't know that that all all pineapples should be blue.

And you go, okay, so let me order just, I want to raise pineapples, let me order blue pineapples. Then the next week they come back and go, well, all your blue pineapples have to be from one nation. And you're like, oh, okay, let me order all new pineapples from that one nation. Oh, well, your pineapples don't really mean anything unless you get them from this time at this way. And you write this down on the order form.

That's what denominations do. You're not, I heard a great story the other day, and you and I were talking about this in the car about, well, I'll share you my personal experience is I was at an airport getting on a plane. I'd missed my flight. The lady's talking to me, we're helping them, being very nice. And somebody else comes running up, they're rude and mean, and she's like not having it.

Yeah. And then basically says, You need to go to another airline. Sends them off. She looks back at me with a smile and is like, Hey, we get to talking again. We start talking Jesus.

We start talking God. And it was just so opening and so free. But then another co-worker of hers comes along, a baggage person, and then starts asking questions. And the questions are like, Oh, so you're a Christian? Yeah.

Now, were you baptized? Yeah. Well, did you do it in the name of Jesus or by the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit?

Well, I did it by the doesn't matter which one you choose, you're wrong.

Well, were you baptized in a pool or in a lake or in water? Doesn't matter which one you say, you were wrong.

Now, do you use this Bible or that Bible? It doesn't matter which one you say, you're wrong. And it is so easy to be critical and create rules that are all based on opinions. Because your denomination only uses the King James, that one's right. And yet, I have said this publicly, and I'll say it again.

I can show you flaws in the King James. And I want to quote a verse right now that's related to the question.

Okay. Romans 3:23. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That's what it says in the King James and the NIV. That's not what it says in the original language.

Well, no, in the original language, it says, for all have sinned.

Now, the important part of that is, like you had said earlier, if you sin, so you claim to be a Christian, but if you sin, you're done. Oh, yeah. But still come to church, pay your tithes, come to church, and we'll keep praying for you.

So once you sin, that was a bachelor. You basically born into that sinful nature. And that's what they don't want you to wake up to. Because all have sinned and not fall short of their glory of God, because that makes it sound like we're good enough already. No, all have sinned and are therefore deprived of the presence of God.

That's what it says in the original language. And when you go back and look at that, you go, Adam ate the apple. He sinned. Every one of us since then has been born into the sinful nature.

So if we get born again, that means we have to start thinking differently, acting differently, living differently, because we're now babes in Christ.

Okay, so I love that expression, babes in Christ, because that means we have time to grow up. Yes. So in the time that we should be able to grow up, where Paul said many of you should be mature, but you're still eating milk, or drinking milk, you should be eating meat. And Paul even says, let's forget the elementary teachings of the faith from repentance and all these other things. The rules and regulations.

Oh, do you use baptizing water? What? Jesus is not arguing those things. No. You know, we talked about this yesterday.

The guy on the cross.

Next to Jesus, did not jump down off the cross, say, Hey, is there, can I, can I get baptized in that bucket of vinegar? Can I get baptized in your blood?

Well, yeah, you could, but you know, all these things that he didn't jump off the cross to get himself right, he just said. Lord. But he did what Paul did, Lord, Lord. He said, remember me. And what did Jesus say?

Today, you will be with me. Be with me. That's the key to the whole sentence. We don't teach that.

So, what we teach is: here's the rules: you can't dance, you can't do that. Um And and you know, I can tell you I'm going to follow this leading. I uh was going to a funeral. And before I went to the funeral, this was for a young lady who passed away. I I got upset and I started uh Talking to God about it.

And I remember I sat down. in a chair that day. Before the funeral, and I said, Lord. I said, uh What do you want to do? And he said to me, What are you asking me to do?

I said I'm asking you to raise her from the dead. I said, this is the worst kind of funeral you can go to. A young person, you know, all that. And he said, okay. And I was like, what?

Wow. I drove all the way to that funeral.

Now I've seen the dead raised since then. I drove all the way to the funeral. And I got there, walked through the door, and basically the Lord's light. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I walked their door and I was like, are we sure about this God? And he said, look around.

And I remember walking up to the casket. And I didn't say anything, I didn't do anything because a realization struck me. There was no faith there. There was no faith there. They were all doing what they were doing when Lazarus died before Jesus got there.

They were all, she's gone, she's gone, she's gone. And I went to God about it later, and this is kind of hard to explain to people, but there's just a knowing. Yes. And, you know, later on in life, I remember praying for a man that was thrown out of a bar in India, and he was dead. And I laid hands on him, he came to life.

And when he came to life, he was screaming and yelling because he had been in hell. You know, and I've seen other instances of that happen. And I realized that that church didn't have faith, didn't believe that that could happen. And see, that's another thing that I've figured out, and I've kind of witnessed it a lot: that a lot of people put limits on what God can do. You're right.

When there is no limit to what God can do, as long as you have that faith that. I know my God can. Yeah. Jesus said, You will be with me. Mm-hmm.

There was no sinner's prayer. There was no baptism. There was no church attendance. There was no dress code. Because I've been told how to dress.

Oh, um. I've been kicked out for wearing shorts one time at a. I was in a foreign country. Sitting around doing this before internet and all that, had a walkman, was listening to a Uh Rock and roll Christian band. No.

This kid, I can see the kid, listening. He was listening to a rock and roll Christian band I'd never heard of called Skillet. Oh, yeah. And they wanted to kick him out of the country and send him home. And so I listened to the songs.

And I was a leader with this group. And I listened to the songs and I was like. Dang. This is like, they're good. Yeah, there's one that's called Monster.

Yeah. And they talk about how it feels like there's a monster in him, and he needs somebody to come and save him. How realistic is that? I mean, I think a lot of us can kind of relate to that in a lot of senses. I had to go to bat for that boy.

And uh Not my kind of kid. Not my kind of He wasn't even on my team. But I went to bat for the boy and I said, Have any of you listened to this music? I said, I don't listen to that kind of music. I don't listen to heavy metal, thrash rock, whatever that is.

And I said, I'm a. Country or gospel, or I was wasn't even real. I didn't like Christian music back then. And uh, I said, but there's nothing wrong in those words. I said, you guys are just.

judging him based on What you're hearing without listening. And they didn't kick him out of the country, but it was, I was like, going, you gotta be kidding me. And then literally that same trip, they put two women in charge over the country, and I was second-tier leadership. And these women didn't like men. And Before the summer was up, they attacked all the men.

Oh, wow. And they used a particular preacher's book to do it.

Well, you know, this and that, and this and that. And they're like, miracle signs and wonders, are they really happening? And how? And here was my problem: I didn't know the word then, I didn't know how to study the word, I didn't know the word, and so I couldn't give an answer based on the word. They weren't using the word, but they were demanding it from me, but I didn't know it.

So I came home and just was like. God, you can take ministry and missions and preachers, all of them, and let them burn in hell. I don't care. I don't want to have anything to do with them. I said, but Lord, anywhere you have somebody in need, send them to me or send me to them.

And I have been to some unusual places and had unusual things happen. And I'm like, what is going on? And the Lord's like, remember what you promised? Like, oh, you're trying to keep it.

Okay, God. Yeah. You know, and so people now say, well, Brother John, that's your flow. That's just how you are. Not realizing that 25 years ago, You know, I came home from that mission trick and got drunk for six weeks because I was running from the call of God on my life, had no way to understand it.

Nobody was actually helping me. And that ministry took the time to interview everyone, which they did with every trip. And they got a bad report about me for no reason other than these two women didn't like men. Said, never have him back. And they called me and they literally said, Listen, and for six weeks, I've been getting drunk.

Just, I'm done. Yeah. And I'm still in college. And I'm just like, whatever. I didn't even go to church.

And they called me and they said, Mr. Foy, we owe you an apology. And I'm like, for what? And they literally said, we took the report. They said, but here's what happens: they didn't know or were unaware that we were going to speak to every kid that was on your team and their parents and talk about the impact.

So they would do these interviews and have exit interviews. And there were teenagers that were with me for three months. And they would do these interviews. And the interviews would go along the way of, you know, would you ever go back? You know, asking all kinds of questions, which means your team leaders are coming up.

They're talking about you. And every single parent, every single kid was like, hey, we want, if we're doing another one, we want him to be our team leader. We want to. And it wasn't just because we were seeing miracles, signs, and wonders, because I had.

Some conflict. I had two girls who complained about me and wrote a letter. To the ministry and said, He pushes us too hard. I'm a drill instructor. I'm like but then they wrote a leather letter retracting because when they realized how I was, we would get more ministry done.

And then I would get them lunch on time and then give them the whole afternoon off because we were doing more ministry than anyone else. And we were seeing miracles, signs, and wonders. These two girls came around like, we're so sorry. We just had never experienced somebody like you that was so driven. Changed their lives.

And the ministry called and said, We need you. What are you doing? Are you good? I said, I was unaware of this. I knew these two women had got me in a room and attacked me basically verbally and want to know, explain everything.

And I said, I couldn't. And they were like, well, we want you to come on the next trip. We're paying for everything. And so they put me with another team leader partner, and we go on another trip. not that long later.

And I remember being on the bus crying. As we get up to a park, and there's a guy riding around on a part of a box that has wheels on it because he's crippled.

Okay. Tina's like, Can we go pray for them? Because I'm still preaching miracles, signs, and wonders. Even though I'd been drinking six days before, I was probably still getting all the alcohol out of my body. And.

I said, y'all go out and do it. You don't need me. I'd been teaching him everything I knew up to that point about how to see miracles, signs, and wonders. And that man ends up getting and walking down the street. Didn't even carry a skateboard with him.

Then from there, they go into the park and somebody's having a heart attack. They pay for that person. And by the time doctors everyone gets there, the guy's fine. And I'm on the bus crying. And the person they teamed me up with, she's on the bus crying.

And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I've been drinking for the last eight weeks because I was not done with this. She's like, same with me. She goes, I was so done with ministry. And we were both the same way.

Like, we were done with ministry. And yet we're still telling the truth because we know it's not God's fault. It's just ministry's fault. And that launched me. That next summer, You know, I started, I just went, and I was done drinking after that.

Done, gave it up, realized it's not God. It's the Preachers, it's the ministry. And I say all of that because. I have been one of those, what everybody would call is a rule breaker. My dad raised me that way.

He says, If you see everybody walking that way, you turn around and go the other way. You go against the grain. Because if you follow the grain, you're following the sheep. And the sheep are walking to the cliff. And I was like, okay.

And so I learned very quickly. That the rules that are made up, they're not God's rules. No. But I went searching. For the rule.

Yes, sir. Or the rules. And that's what led to love. Yeah. One of the things, you know, in saying, you know.

If you sin, you're gonna go to hell. You're being hypocritical because We're all born in sin. Um. And also I studied Leviticus. Oh, yeah.

I love Leviticus. Yes, sir. 20 years ago I didn't love Leviticus. I love Leviticus now. And the reason I do is I spend a summer in our Bible school studying Leviticus.

And I came away from Leviticus going, mm. God's an exacting God. The temple is built exactly the way he wants it. The fire that's used to light the Incidents inside the Inner court comes from the fire of the brazen altar, can't come from anywhere else.

So, there's they call that strange fire if it does, and there's a whole story about Aaron's sons dying because they let the fire go out and they figured they could pull out their big lighter and start the fire. It doesn't work that way, they die and because the fire didn't come from the brazen altar. And you start studying Leviticus, you go, God is an exacting God. He is. And he gives you all these rules and regulations.

But he tells you that there's one, there's a master rule, there's a big rule, there's one rule that rules them all. And it was the law of love. And as I studied the temple and I studied the tabernacle and studied all that, it just set me free because it made me realize. The whole reason of all of this? is to prove to man the rules and regulations couldn't save us.

The law couldn't save us. And what the law was powerless to do is what Paul says in Galatians. And yet, here we have entire denominations, entire people groups called Christian, who run around and say, you have to do this, you have to do that, if you sin. And yet, God says that every time you sin, you can come into the outer court with the sacrifice. Kill it.

Pour the blood out. Walk back out. You walk back out and go 30 feet and commit a sin. Get another animal, come in and do it again. And you could do it 470 times in a day.

And there was an unlimited time of times you could do that. And when I saw that, I was like, oh my gosh. I said, but Lord, I still want to be free of this. I still want to be free of these things because what does sin do? It gets you separated from God and it causes you shame.

And guilt.

So, what do you do? You hide. You turn it on. You run too. You do what Adam did.

You run. And that's the problem with why, if God loves us. Why so many people go to hell? Go to hell. And here's what I think.

One, how do you know so many people go to hell? Right. Oh, because you've heard preachers say that if you. Break a rule, you're going to hell. I don't see God saying that.

Does hell exist? Yep. We know about it 54 times. But what did Jesus say? There will be many who claim to have done miracles, signs, and wonders, or preach in my name.

Yep. Kind of like the guy in the airport. who came along and was questioning the That lady I was talking to, and literally, as I was sitting there questioning talking to her, or he was talking to her, What did you do this? Did you do that?

Well, you're going to hell. I could see her building a brick-and-mortar wall between her and everyone else. Her defenses were coming up. Yes, and that's the problem with the Hellfire Brimstone message: there's no freedom there, it's a prison. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And uh, you know, that's why I've really liked the. Let me see, let me, I don't want to misquote them or anything, but one of them, I believe, is in the book of Matthews, where it talks about. Before you take the splinter out of your brother's eye, make sure to take the log out of your own eye. Yeah, correct? Yes, and so that's what a lot of people do: they claim to be Christians, yet they're doing all this other stuff because they want to protect their image of being a Christian.

Yeah, they'll go around judging others for it and everything. You're doing the exact same thing. Yep. So now, are you being the same person that you're criticizing this other non-Christian to be? Yeah.

Or are you gonna stop doing what you're doing and actually start turning your life around? You know. We go to the same church. Yes, sir. Pastor Josh.

Yes. Awesome. He's good at that. He's good at looking past people's mistakes and just going. This is why, you know, and that's one of the reasons people love him.

He doesn't judge people. I mean, we've got people from millionaires down to recovering drug addicts wearing ankle bracelets. He treats us all the exact same. Yeah, he treats us all the same. And he doesn't judge people and go, well.

You know, I heard a story once, and this is this would, and I don't sit in on his counseling, I don't sit in on all his stuff, but I heard a story once when I was at a missions conference about a pastor who had a young man who had just been out running in the world, doing all his own things, and he's probably 19 or 20 years old, and he comes running to the altar one night, gets saved, and then after that, he goes, Pastor, I think I'm supposed to go to Mission Field. And the next day there was like a missions meeting, and people were like, if you believe you're called to missville, the kid runs up there. Oh, wow. And the pastor had this thought. He looked at the kid and goes, Man, shouldn't you learn how to be a Christian first?

Wow, shouldn't you be a Christian a little bit time? But he kept he said I kept my mouth shut He goes And I start I talk to the kid. I said, Lord, let's see. And he said, I even supported the kid.

Now, 10 years later, that kid's been on the missionville for 10 years doing amazing things. But that pastor had a choice: how to look at that brand new baby. Yeah. versus What his religion had been telling him to judge him by. Exactly.

And he did the right thing. And it blew his mind. And, you know. Yeah. That's a cool story.

Josh is the same way. He believes that even, you know, obviously he has his rules. We have our limits. There's certain things we do and don't do. And that's a way to also protect yourself.

Yeah, you have to. Yeah, we're helping a couple right now that it's like we're doing everything we can to protect ourselves only because, unfortunately, Yeah, we've been bit by people. Yeah. Doesn't mean I'm not going to help them, but I'm. Stepping it around certain ways.

Like, don't call me, only text me, you know, things like that. Because I don't want something being said. No, I've never had a conversation with them. It's always been through text or email. And I've learned that just from my business.

Yeah. You know, and so, um, It turns into a thing where I really believe a lot of people think. Others are going to help. Yeah. Because American Christianity has propagated that.

Yeah. I've seen where. Certain pastors or preachers or Christians in general will take a little bit of scripture and run a mile wide with it. And instead of Looking at the context to what it's referring to, they're making it very opinionated.

So now it's not truly the word of God.

Now you're using a piece of his word to push your agenda or to push your belief into it. And that's another thing that kind of tends to push people away from it because.

Well, why why are you why are they saying one thing? But I'm reading another thing. Just like with you when you said, well Is this wrong? Or what's going on? What's going on?

And I've learned that no matter what, I was sitting in a front, staying in my front yard with my brother-in-law, Tom, one day. And this is, I don't know, 20 years ago. And he says, and I'm quoting something about. Generosity. I'm saying something about giving.

He goes, Well, that's wrong. I said, excuse me? He goes, that's wrong. And he quoted a scripture. It was loop something, right?

And I went, hmm. And I thought about it for a second. I said, man, you're right. Here goes what? I said, you're right.

He goes, What are you doing? I said, I'm not doing anything. I said, you just changed my mind. Thank you. I agree with you.

He's like, you can't do that. I said, what? He goes, Did you just change your mind that fast? I'm like, yeah, you just gave me a scripture that totally annihilated my opinion. Yeah.

I'm going with the scripture. And I had to relearn that topic. And I'll say it now. Being a believer. Since Jesus, it's not about ties and offerings.

Because if you really study ties and offerings, if all you're doing is 10%, you're missing it. Because ties only do one thing, all your other offerings do another. The goal of the believer is generosity. Yes. Totally different.

Two different topics. Everything coming out of the Old Testament is a minimum code requirement, like what we're doing with building this house. We're overbuilding this house. Like the code only requires 2x10 floor joists that can span up to 12 or 13 or 14 feet. I don't even know the exact number anymore, but we're using 2x12s and we're not spanning them more than 10 feet or 11 feet.

That's 2x12s. We're doubling and increasing everything because we want it to be strong, a strong foundation, not a minimum foundation. And yet, We have so many people who live on a minimum foundation, a minimum foundation preached in the church.

So then, when people go out and hit a strong wind, they knock, they fall down. And then they wonder why people are going to hell and they wonder why they're not hearing from God. They're wondering why their life is the way it is. And I'm like, going. Because you're not in the word.

It's like building the foundation on the sand or the rock. When you build it on the sand, when those times of tribulation come and all that stuff, it's just like with a rushing wind or with strong water flow through, it's gonna fall. It's gonna wash out. But if you build your foundation and you root it into the rock, which is God. No matter what comes your way, you're going to stay stable.

That's right. You're going to stay rooted. God's going to have you. I can I can tell you that there are trials that I've gone through. That I hope Other people never have to.

And I understand where the trials are because of what's coming and what has already happened since many of them. And, um,. I went through one that was so bad that I was like. Um Literally, I remember driving down the road. I was like, God, I can understand why.

If you weren't here... If you weren't in my life, Why people would go crazy and depressed and commit suicide. I understand that. I said: the only thing that's keeping me afloat right now is you. You know.

And the situation was so bad And It was just one of those situations. There was no way out of it. There was nothing I did to get myself in it. It was what other people did to me, and it created a situation where I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you're just sitting there going, but I haven't done anything wrong.

And you're like, and if it weren't for God, I can understand. Yeah. White people would be nuts. It was another I remember about a year ago. I was uh It was about a year ago we came home from a conference.

And for six months, it was like. A brick wall in the way in prayer, in everything, everything fighting us last year, this time. And I remember talking to friends, I said, You guys, I said. You know, a lot of people look at me and they say, Oh, it's Brother John. Maybe, you know, if you need a word, go talk to Brother John.

If you need to hear from the Holy Ghost, go talk to Brother John. Or, you know, go have Brother John pray for you. And I understand that's what people do. And after 30 years, the word, you can't hide. Yeah.

People know, you know, and like going into that church one day and somebody. you My wife introduced herself to somebody and they said, Oh, we know who you are. It's like, what? And they're like, Yeah, you're famous. We're like, My wife's like, No, we're not.

And it's because of what God has done through us that people see that. And so that puts some undue pressure on us, but we're good with that. We're not going to let it go to our heads. And so last year. It was like a brick wall.

Nothing was clicking. Nothing. And I'm like going, even to the point that after all these years of walking with Jesus, some days good, some days bad. Going Am I saved? Am I bored?

What's going on? And then. I started having spiritual visitations. From hell. I'm like, I haven't had these in 25 years since I got filled with the Holy Spirit.

But they all When it happened to me before, it all preceded the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Now, all of a sudden, here I am. In my fifties, 25, 30 years later, here it comes again. I'm like, what is going on? I'm waking up and seeing things and different things going around and. Demons sitting on me, yeah, and I'm like, what?

And Then in the middle of the night. had an open vision. And the devil made me an offer, which we won't talk about that here. Made me an offer, you know about it. And uh I was like No.

But then after that... It was like things started to break free. And When I said no to the offer, to everything, the wealth, everything they offered me, I'm not going to say because I've learned that people will take things you've seen and turn a whole tape series into it because they heard another preacher talk about it. I'm not, so I keep some of that close only to close friends. Yes.

But after that offer is what we've called it. went went on a trip And a word came out of me totally unexpected about a couple, about some trials they were going through. And because of what I had gone through, and I felt like Job, and I was studying Job that whole time period. Wow. And now I meet a couple who's going through some junk.

This is in another country. And the last thing the Holy Spirit says to me as I'm beginning to pray for them about the junk they're going through, I put my head down, not even 10 seconds later, the Holy Spirit says, They want to have children, or they have, they want children. And I raise my head up loud and as belligerent as I am, just me being who I am. I go, You guys don't have kids yet. And this room is full of preachers.

They start pawling. And then we find out this past February they're pregnant. Praise God. You know, they're seven months pregnant. And you're just like, wow.

And they stood up and gave their testimony. For me, I wanted to hear about the baby. Yeah. That's what I thought the key thing was. They got up and said, Brother John told us four things.

And they shared all four things. And all four things came to pass. The first three things didn't mean anything to me when I told it to them. But to them, it meant everything. And they're still going through some stuff, but they were like, if we had not heard from God on that day.

We wouldn't be pregnant. Yeah. They said. Him that Me not knowing them, not knowing their situation, and speaking to the situation and calling it out without them telling me. which was amazing in and of itself.

It shocked me. And I mean, that's happened before. Yeah. But. Then, for seven months later, you find out that the miracle is a lot bigger than you thought it was.

Yeah. And now they're like, we want to go to your Bible school. We want to be involved in what you're doing. And the neat thing is, now they've had that experience that they'll look back and go, we will never, ever, ever. Walk away from this.

And they were coming from a church that was exactly what we've been talking about. All this, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. And. Now Jesus shows up and is like, I love you. Yeah.

And you know it. Forgive me for saying this, but I'll be real with it. Yeah. When you start to s to kind of step away from actual religion. Uh-huh.

From what people are starting to opinionate and pump you full of nonsense. And you follow that relationship with God Himself and with Jesus, and you start going directly to them, you will begin to see. everything unfold and you're gonna be like This is what I was supposed to do. This is what I'm supposed to do, where I'm supposed to be putting my time in. And I need to stop listening to so much opinionated stuff.

So. To put a scripture to it, what you just what I just heard. And maybe listeners will hear something different is that When you step away from the rules and regulations and the doctrine of men, And you start walking in presence or in relationship.

Now, miracles, signs, and wonders begin to happen.

Now, God starts showing up on the scene. Yes. And the scripture of that is Jesus Himself said: the word or the rules and doctrine of men render the word of God powerless.

So if you get away from The word, the rules, the regulations, and the doctrine of men, right? Because even Paul said in Ephesians, he says, I pray that you be rooted and grounded in love, which is God Himself, the agape, which is the presence of God.

So we can say, I pray. We could say it this way. I pray that you be rooted and grounded in the presence of God's love, that your eyes of understanding would be enlightened.

So now, not your eyes of your physical eyes, but your spiritual eyes would be opened, that you may see the hope to which he's called you, which the hope that which he's called you is to be a son and daughter of God, meaning you're walking in the presence of fullness of God, that you may know the hope to which he has called you, no longer, no longer swayed back and forth by the cunning teachings of men and the doctrines of men that sway about. It says, no longer swayed back and forth or buffeted like a ship on the storm, but rather rooted and grounded in love. You're anchored in love.

So when we. And all this is about why does God send some people to hell and some, you know. Yeah. So when we get away from the opinions and doctrines of men and actually study the Word of God. We're no longer buffeted by all of their opinions and the rules and the denominations, but now we're walking and anchored in the presence of God.

He begins to reveal to us, you're not going to hell. No. Maybe that guy over there is not going to hell, but you know who probably is? And Jesus said, you vipers, many of you will come to me. You brood of vipers.

Yeah, you brood of vipers. Many of you will come to me saying, did I not? And he's going to be like, no, you built walls everywhere you went. You were more concerned about whether that person was baptized, sprinkled, or immersed. Yes.

And whether they did it in the name of Jesus or the name of what? You're more concerned about all that. You missed the spirit. The letter of the law kills is what Galatians says. But the spirit gives life.

So to go from. The rules and regulations and doctrine into the spirit. That's where we find the freedom. And to answer that question, is why does God send so many to hell? I absolutely believe that hell has a lot less people in it than people think.

Yeah. I absolutely believe that there are a lot of people who are deceived into thinking they're going to hell because of a church. But I also believe that there's a lot of people who. You know, I met a guy the other day. And he's like, yeah, I don't.

We were at a place getting some supplies and uh God came up. I mean, I was in the room talking and I brought it up. I always do. And the guy goes, Yeah, I don't believe that stuff anymore. And the guy behind the covers, you're not a believer.

He goes, No, no, no. He goes, And he starts to tell his. Excuse why. Yeah. His excuse doesn't matter.

I saw through it and I just started laughing. I said, Brother, I said, you know, I'm looking forward to getting to heaven and you and I playing some game like chess that leads to a revelation about God. He goes, Why are you saying I'm going to heaven? I said, Oh, brother, you're going. You're going.

He's like, What do you mean? And I said, You're mad at God, and God's okay with that. I said, But I'll see you in heaven. Yeah, but I said, Man, you can't hide it. You know, and I'm just, I won't let him go.

I'm like, I'm this guy is mad at religion. He's mad at God and religion. He still believes. And I knew it. I knew it.

There were some other things in the conversation. And the last thing he did. was he gave me his business card. He said, let's talk. And what did he have all over?

Crosses. How about that?

So he wants everyone to believe that he's this grumpy old man that believes he's going to hell or not going to heaven. But yet. He still, and I knew he still believed. And I told him, I said, You're just mad because the church didn't come through, your religion didn't come through. And he told me what religion he was in and all that.

And I said, Yeah, God loves you. And I knew that he still loved God because when I said that to him, he started to cry. And I'm going, in my mind, I know from 30-some years of preaching now and experience with evangelism in the clinical term, right? In relating to other people, I knew in that instance. He still loved God.

Oh, yeah. He's just completely ticked off.

Well, because he started crying. Yeah. His heart's not seared. Yeah. His heart is not seared.

He just hadn't run into anybody that saw the good in him. Yeah. And see, going back, I mean, that's that's how it was. I mean, we so, like, again, I grew up in church, and uh, and we ended up stepping away from the church because of the way that they started pushing and everything. And they were more of a prosperity kind of church where they were teaching that, oh, you need to give this, you know, you need to sacrifice, going out with family, stop spending money on giving and gift to us.

It was more of the church, the church, the church. The money needs to come to the church. Yeah. And I remember because my mama told me this story with my wife. Yeah.

And she told us, she said, you know, one of the main reasons why we stepped away was because your father used to give so much money to the church that one day Johnny, who was my brother, He was real young. I believe that I was barely walking or something like that. But. He come up to her and said, Mommy, Can I have a cookie? Yeah, that's all my brother wanted was just one cookie.

And my mama had to look at him and say, No, because we can't afford it. We had to give to the church. And so my brother then started crying to her and said, Mommy, please, just one cookie. We can share it. Me and my brother, we can share it.

And my mom, with tears down her eyes, had again to say, We can't afford it.

So my dad, what he did was, he said, You know what? I'm gonna read the scripture. I'm gonna study the Bible. That way, can't nobody come to me and tell me that this is this and that and that and try to misguide us or mislead us or you know or make us think differently aside from what that book says. Yeah, so he started reading it.

Now they became real charge hurt to the point where They haven't really gone back to church. Right. They visited some on certain occasions and stuff, but that's about it. Yeah. But The fact is that They I still believe that they may have a chance.

Well, they do have a chance to make it into heaven. Where a lot of people are like, no, I don't qualify anymore. You still qualify. There are a lot of people, and when I was a younger man, I probably made fun of it saying, oh, you know, they're getting into heaven on their skin of their cheek, your skin of their teeth, or whatever it is. And.

Now, I don't know if I would say that because God loves even the hypocritical Christian as much as he loves the person who doesn't go to church because of the hypocritical Christians. He loves the guy that's on drugs as much as he loves the preacher. The problem is, and this is one of the issues, is, you know, you always hear people talk about, well, I committed blasphemy on the Holy Spirit. I'm like, Were you a preacher? No.

Were you working in miracles, signs, and wonders? No. I said. probably you haven't committed blasphemy on the Holy Spirit because If you did, you wouldn't even be worried about it. Because part of the condition of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that you've experienced some things with God.

And I'm not trying to be. I'm not trying to glorify me in saying this, but for most people listening, you don't even qualify for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. A guy like me does. Because a guy like me, I've experienced things, I've worked miracles. God has worked miracles, signs, and wonders through me.

God has allowed me to see, I've been enlightened, you can say.

So for me to now turn my back on God and to go a whole nother direction. I would then be committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Most people can't do that. And simply, even because the fact that you're questioning it, have I committed, means you haven't.

Now, the devil will come to you and go, You've committed because he wants you to believe that because you don't know. You don't know what you don't know.

So, and he uses that against you. The church uses that against you. And, and, So, some churches, and let me clarify this in saying that when I speak about churches, I see two churches, just like the Bible. There's the church that follows the way. Jesus said, I'm the way, the truth.

Jeremiah was a member of the way. Paul said, I'm a member of the way. And that's a sect within Christianity that follows the truth. But then Christianity has within it, just like the Jews did, they've got Pharisees and Sadducees and all these other people. And, you know, he called them vipers.

So when you look at statistics. 87%. Of the American church falls into the religious category. 13% of the church is. What you and I would call Bible-based.

I mean, I hope that that means if there's half a million churches in America, that means there's at least one in every city. Yeah. Hopefully, which I can see God doing that. But. It boils down to this: why would God send so many people to hell?

Well, how do you know He sent them to hell? Yeah. Unless you've been there. And is it that you're repeating a doctrine and a dogma that came from your religious church in order to keep their agenda going. And secondly, Um Where do you stand?

And as an individual, that's the question is not because that question points at other people instead of themselves. And then people use that as an excuse to not be where they're supposed to be with Jesus. And the one thing I would say to anybody that's asking that question is. I'm glad that you're able to see the hypocrite in that, the hypocritical issue of that. We've spent an hour talking about that.

The real issue then lies in But where do you stand? Instead of deflecting to why God sent so many. Why is God going to send me? Yeah. Should be the question.

And then you can really begin to address the issue of what's going on with you. Are you really going to hell? I doubt it. You wouldn't be asking that question. Do you need to get right with Jesus?

Absolutely. You've got to call on him. You've got to become dependent upon him. You've got to become a child of God. You've got to.

The only way to heaven. There is no strange fire. Like these preachers going, there's so many ways to God. No, there's one way, and that fire comes through the cross. The brazen altar, which is a symbol of the cross, which is where the sacrifice is made, you must pass through the cross.

You must pass through the blood. Jesus is the only way. He's the truth. Only way to truth. That's right.

So you do have to accept Jesus into your heart. And what I would say to anybody listening. Is we have not spent a lot of time talking about all the scriptures, the 54 scriptures about hell. I really don't want to, to be honest. What I really want to talk about is where do you stand?

And the thing I would say to every one of you is that the gospel is very simple. And you can find it in 1 John 3, verse 23 and 24. He says, and this is the gospel, that you believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, Romans tells us that if we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart.

So, believing means you confess. Yes. Okay. So, what you need to do is, whoever you are, wherever you are, like John said, do you believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ? Admit it.

Then, the second thing is to follow his command. And he says, and it's not as though I write you a new command, but one we've had from the beginning that you love. And that is the key to Christianity. As God sees it, as the word sees it. That's the key to the Christianity that says you're not going to hell.

And so, what I would say to anybody out there listening is: one, if you believe on Jesus, let him know. You don't need to let me know. You don't need to let anyone know. No, no, scripture says if you won't be ashamed of me before men, I won't be. Yes, but that doesn't mean you need to stand up in front of a thousand people and proclaim that you're a follower of Jesus.

No, your day to proclaim that Jesus is the Lord is going to happen.

Next week, tomorrow, whatever, somebody's going, what's different about you?

Well, I got saved. What do you mean? And there you go. You've proclaimed it.

So if you're a believer, you have to admit it.

Okay, the other thing is, you've got to walk in love. Yes. And walking in love means that you go out tomorrow and Maybe you start with the little old lady in front of you at the gas station digging for change. Just reach over and swipe your card. You can afford 20, 40 bucks.

Or at the grocery store. This is a good example. I do it all the time. I started doing it years ago. I've had people arguing with me for years over this whole love thing.

And then they go, I did what you said. And I went to my car and I cried for hours. Because they go, wow, I had such a glorious experience with Jesus. Then I got steered into a church that was very religious. And make sure you don't break the rules.

Make sure you don't do anything wrong. And the next thing I knew, I didn't have that relationship anymore. And then I met you, brother John, and I got mad and I argued with you for six months. And then after six months, I finally said, well, let me pay for somebody's groceries and see what happens. And I go to my car and cry for an hour because this is literally what one person said.

I did what you suggested to do. And instead of that other person getting blessed. I'm the one who got blessed. He goes, I gave up $30, $40, $50, $100, but I'm the one who got blessed. And he goes, and my relationship with God is just soaring now.

And you're like, wait, you mean you practiced agapeo love? Which is the action of love. The action. And in doing so, the presence of love showed up. Yeah.

And I'm going to And that's what Christianity is about. That's what being a Jesus freak is about. That's what being a Jesus follower is about. When we say yes to Jesus. Not anyone else to Jesus.

And then he says, Hey, see that the next day, he says, See that guy? Yeah, help him. See that girl out there? And now, I mean, David, it's like every day, even right now as I'm saying this, my whole body is just like, ah! And, but it's like so thrilling because you're like, you mean that when I quit worrying about me?

And I just say, I'll act on love today. Just do it once in the next week. We challenged our men's group, men's ministry 60 days ago to do that. And I've had several of them reach out to me and go, I did it. And oh my gosh, brother, it's like Jesus showed up.

I'm like, yeah. And people are like, what? How did I never know this? I'm like, because your day has always been about you, which means your life is about you. And really, if Jesus was all about himself, he didn't have to get on the cross.

No, but because Jesus was about others, he got on the cross. And God doesn't need us, he wants us. And so when we begin to act like. Him. Do for others what they can't do for themselves.

No strings attached. Man, it releases a blessing in our lives that will convince you. Yes. It. And that's the funny thing is the law Kills, but the spirit gives life.

When you go out, When you disobey the church. Who says, don't give to those people on the side of the road, give it to us, we'll take care of them. And they actually don't. When they say, don't give to those people at the grocery store, give it to us, we'll help them. And they don't, but then you do it.

Oh my gosh. I'm telling you, you will get to your car, put your groceries in your car, and cry. Yes. Because the way he shows up, it is. I don't know how to explain it.

But it makes you just want to jump for joy. You want to cry. You're like, sometimes you're just like out of breath, going, What just happened? And it's so euphoric. And you go, That's the spirit.

I remember there was one, uh, there was one time we were me and my wife were actually coming back. I believe it was from the beach or something, but we came off of a highway 40 onto highway 210. Yeah, and there's the intersection right there where if you were to turn left, you'd go up towards 50.

Well, right there on the corner, there was this older lady, and you could tell she's been through some hard stuff. Yeah. And you know, at first, we were like, Let's just go by, like pass by, and let's just go home. We just want to be home type deal. In instantly, as soon as the co the four tires We're past her, we felt it in the heart.

It was such a gouging feeling that me and my wife both looked at each other and we were like, turn around. We need to turn around. And we were like Well, maybe we can give like $2 or something. Whatever we have in the cup holder. Maybe that'll be fine.

We get up there and we're like, no. No, God's saying give more. God's saying give more. And when she received the money. Yeah.

I was like One of two things is either going to happen. Either she's going to just stick it in her pocket and that's it, or she's going to be grateful about it. Yeah. She dropped to her knees and started praying. Wow.

Wow. When that happened, when I tell you some kind of joy that we could not stop smiling at one another, and it was just such a joy. I'm actually feeling it. Even right now, you're re-experiencing it. And it was just such an amazing thing where it was just like.

I don't care what people say. I don't care what I may be judged about. You know what? If I can help a person out, let me do so. And I share a story that.

Last year We were traveling back from I you actually drove my daughter's horse trailer down to Georgia. And then you and my other son came back together. My other son, my oldest son, and I were in Houston. Coming back, pulling an RV, which we just donated to a homeless couple. And that was just like when they walked through that, and they're looking at it, and I said, no strings attached.

They were like staring at me like, for real? I'm like, yeah. And then now the temperature's getting warm, and I left a brand new AC unit. And I'm going, last night I was like, Lord, I gave them that AC unit. And now it's hot in my house.

But anyway, so yeah, you have givers' remorse sometimes. But we're coming back from Houston. We stopped at Perry, Georgia with that R V and the and the suburban, and then we used the truck to hook up our horse trailer and we're caravanning back. Um, all of us, my wife, my daughter, um, my nephew, my son and I. And They called me and said Hey, they were in Augusta.

They said something's wrong with Suburban, it doesn't want to start. And some guy got in there and tapped the starter with a crowbar and he got it started. And I told him, I said, Don't turn it off. Yeah. And what happened is when he tapped the solenoid, the cord.

bent enough That it was grounding out. Oh, wow. So they were lucky they didn't get into a fire. Yeah. And they got to Savannah to get gas and instinctively turned it off.

Oh, man.

So we had to. They called me and I said, okay, we're coming there. We get there and behind them, we're about 30 minutes behind them, and we roll the Suburban and that RV out of the way and off to the side. I said, Okay, you guys, all get in that car, in the truck, take the truck up the road, head up the road, and go home, drop the horse and everything off. Joel and I, my oldest, will stay here with the suburban.

And Long short. A friend of mine that I'd helped and mentored, I called him and said, You're the only person I know in Florence. Do you know a mechanic? He goes, Man, I will be there in five minutes. I'm two miles away.

And he shows up, and his mechanic shows up. And he introduces his mechanic to me like this. He goes, You remember the guy I told you about that changed my life? The gang goes, This is him? The mechanic immediately goes, This is him.

He goes, Yeah, wow. And the whole time, this mechanic's working on our car, and I pay him. I give him-I mean, it was almost a thousand dollars for the parts and the labor, and I was glad to pay it. I was like, and the whole time he's like asking me questions, like, You're the dude, yeah, going, What are you telling people about me? Yeah, but the funny thing is, is that in the middle of that.

They get 30 minutes up the road. and a tire blows out on the horse trailer. Another one.

So they're 30 miles up the road with a blown tire and a horse trailer and no jack. Man. Like. We're coming. Mechanics here.

We're going to auto store. Mechanic says we'll be back on the road in two hours. Get the horse out of the trailer. Relax. Yes.

While we're there. I see a couple with a U Haul. And they've been parked there for a while at the gas pump. Like, that's an unusually long time, and they have kids. And I walked over and said, hey guys, y'all been here a while.

Are you okay? Man. Lost my wallet. We're out of gas. We're trying to figure out what to do.

I said, well, let's go. They go, what do you mean? I said, I pulled my credit card out. I said, fill it up. He goes, what?

I said, yeah, fill it up. I said, then don't just fill it up. I said, but you know how when you fill it up, if you rock the car, you can squeeze a little more into it? He goes, Yeah, I said, Do that. I said, You put as much cash in this thing as you can.

They're looking at me, they're going, what?

Now, most of us would be like, Fill it up. Don't rock the car. I used to be that way. I'm like, rock the car. You put every extra inch in there you can.

And then I'm like, But you guys got no money. I said, Yeah, he goes. I told him, I said, A full tank of gas is not going to get you to Atlanta from Florence. That's still five hours away, and you're pulling the trailer. Yeah.

So you're not going to make it here. Here's $100. Make sure you get, and I said, wait. It's gonna be six hours. Have you guys eaten dinner?

And they're like. No, I said Here, go get, so I ended up getting like $150, right? And they're just bawling. Paul and going, who are you? And I'm like, and I didn't go, well, I'm preacher brother John.

None of that. To this day, they don't know a thing about me. I just looked at them, I said, man, guys, I'm just broke down too. I said, I was broke down over there, and I looked over here and my heart was moved. I noticed that you guys were there too long.

I said, so that's why I came and talked to you. I said, Jesus loves you. And I give them a very simple, hey, forget everything else, focus on love. They were bawling. Bawling.

And what you did there was something that a lot of people don't, don't. Know how to differentiate. They do self-glory instead of allowing God to receive the glory in instances like come to my church, listen to my show. I didn't do any of that. Don't do any of that.

I'm like, man, nice to meet you guys. And not even the type, to be honest, not the kind of people I would go up and say, hey, come over for dinner. Not my kind of people. Not my. peeps yeah right But The Lord said, Do it.

I can't tell you how many times I've been in a grocery store or somewhere, and there's a young gang member that I'm like, I ain't talking to him. I would normally walk, and the Lord's like, No, uh-uh, go. I'm like, Man, you know, so I just do it, you know, and it's, but then you just go to the car and you're like, Thank you, Lord. It's the obedience. It is the obedience, and you see what God does when you become obedient.

Yeah. And then what you realize is you are truly. The Bible says your gift opens the door. Yeah. Not your religion.

Not your knowledge. Not your whatever, your gift. It's good that we're talking about this. We were stranded, not stranded, but there was a hurricane approaching. Hurricane Helene.

Okay. And so we were in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, and I looked at the radar. I track radars because of my profession and all that. I'm going, hey, this is coming here.

So everybody on the volleyball team was like, hey, meteorologist John, where's the hurricane going to hit? I said, well, literally, they have the eye of the hurricane directly over us. They're like, what? I said, tomorrow morning, the eye of the hurricane is supposed to be right on top of us.

Well, it shifted east and ended up right on top of Asheville. But we were still flooding because that day before the hurricane came, they moved us up to the second floor of the hotel because the first floor was already starting to rise. And so when we woke up the next morning, we were like, We got out of there on Saturday still, but we had to go all the way up through West Virginia and come back down. Avoid the mountains of North Carolina. And in doing that, Um We went out that night, said, Let's go out to eat.

We're stuck here tonight. Let's go out to eat. We're not driving in a hurricane. Let's let the hurricane pass. We'll leave in the morning.

Yeah. And, um, Should we go to a restaurant? in Gatlinburg. I think it's called the barn.

Okay. And we go to sit in, go in, and we go to sit down. Uh Waitress comes and says, Oh, hey guys, my section's closed. I'm done for the night. They've turned me off.

Like, oh, okay. And my wife's like, why are you wearing a cast? At work. She goes, Well, I broke my leg a couple of weeks ago. Oh, wow.

My wife's like, Why are you working? She goes, Oh, I have to, I'm broke. And we're like.

Well, you really should be waiting on us, you know. She goes, you know, that's what we're thinking. And so we're like, well, she goes, here, I'll take you to your table. We're like, okay. And then I tipped her.

I gave her $200. Oh, wow. And she starts crying. Why are you doing that? I said, because my wife's like One, because he believes in extraordinary tips, I said, and two, because we were supposed to eat at your table.

Yeah. You know, and she cries and she leaves. And the girls are like, Dead. Really? I said watch.

I said they always come back. She goes, What do you mean? I said, The word says the gift opens the door. I said, They always come back. You've seen me do this more than once.

What happens? They go, They always want to come talk to us. That's right. A few minutes later, here comes that girl. She's done with her shift and she sits down.

She eats with us. She hangs out with us the entire time we're there. We got to talk to Jesus. We got to talk. She explained why she's not going to church and all this.

Trying to explain a lot of what we've addressed here on this show. Why she's not. She doesn't want to go to church because she doesn't want to be a hypocrite. And she's trying to figure out who we are and why would we give her that much money. She's like, are you guys millionaires?

And my daughter's like, start laughing, go, no, he just never stops working. You know, my daughter's like, no, we're not millionaires. But. Um Your gift opens the door. Yes, it does.

And Whether it's I mean I guess I don't know the first time I did it. Yeah. I don't think I average more than $80 each time I do it when I help people like that. But It's addictive. Yes.

And I love it. And it allows me to interact with people. Who don't come to church in America, besides doing open-air crusades and everything else we do, in America, it allows me. to touch people. that I can't see in church.

Well, and that's why I also love the fact that We get to be the church. We get to be the ones to go out and reach those souls that have been church hurt, the ones that have been misled. not taking the credit for ourselves, but When some of them do eventually turn back to God, God gets the glory for that. That's right. And that's the thing: we point all of the glory to God.

Be quick. When people say, Why would you do that? I said, God told me to. And they look at me. One lady one night, I remember her name.

Her name was Claire. Why is she. In our 80s. And she goes, Why would you do that? I said, God told me to.

And she started crying. She goes, I don't believe in God. I said, Apparently, you do. She goes, What do you mean? I said well you You're crying when I mention that to you.

You wouldn't be crying if you didn't believe in God. And he certainly believes in you because he told me to do this. And she's just like, nobody's ever done something like that for me before. I said, doesn't mean there's no God. Right.

He loves you. Right. And in her 80s, and we're talking Jesus because of a simple $40 purchase. You ever notice how the old folks never have that $300 basket of groceries? A very small basket.

Always. And I'm like, going, you could do this with $20 or $30 and open a door to bless people. And it's such an easy thing, but it gets you in a position of thinking about others. Thinking about God, thinking about others. How can I be a blessing to others instead of it's all about me?

It's all about me. And a lot of times, too, where I've only been able to have just enough to buy my groceries and stuff. And another thing that I've really enjoyed doing. was hoping that The older people loading their groceries in. I've seen little old ladies struggling to push the little cart and all that stuff.

That's right. And you see some of the stuff, like a gallon of milk. I'm not going to say it's extremely heavy, but it may be for them. That's right. And so, one of the things, and And my wife, sometimes she absolutely hates going to the grocery store.

Yeah. I got a kid that runs every time I get to the register. My wife will be like, look, we're going in here for this and we're out. I don't know a single stranger because I'll get there and I'll go to talking to people. But one of my biggest things is.

Seeing the relief on some of these people's faces that were like, if it wasn't for this person or so, you know, and my wife was like, and in other instances, she'll be like, well, how did you know this was gonna happen? or how did you know that this God put it on my heart. God told me, hey, go help that certain person. Go help that lady. Go help that old man.

Just go talk to these people. Because sometimes, unknowingly, they need somebody. And they may not be able to go to somebody, you know, that. Normal people would go to.

Sometimes you are that vessel that God's getting used to be able to move in their life. And he needs all of us to do that. You know, one of the misnomers and one of the deceptions. That the Western Church uses is this whole apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, whatever. Um years ago, I decided I didn't want to be any of that.

Just call me Brother John. Yeah. Are you an evangelist? Call me Brother John. Are you a pastor?

Call me a brother John. I don't care. And yet, I'll meet people who want to be called a certain thing. And there's no anointing on their life. There's no miracle, signs, and wonders.

And I look at them and I go, Well, I'm such and such. I'm like, Have you even been to a foreign country? No. Well, then, how can you say? You're that.

I'm like, and I just don't even address it anymore. I've left that behind years ago. And, you know, and people will see some sort of evangelism thing we do and go, oh, you're an evangelist. And in. 20 minutes later, they'll hear me give a word of God to somebody, and they'll go, Oh, you're a prophet.

Or then they'll hear me preach and go, Oh, you're a teacher. I'm like, Shut up. I'm just a child of God. I can do anything I need to do. I'm not so worried about it.

I got the Holy Spirit, which means I can access anything and everything He's got because that's how He is. And it just, you know, but yet. They want you to believe, well, that's what preachers do.

Well, most preachers, well, I will say this about American preachers: 70% of, maybe it's 60% of American preachers have a secular job. Mm-hmm. The problem is, they only preach on Sundays or Wednesday nights. They only preach inside the building. And that's not what preaching is about.

That's not even what pastoring is about. And so I'm very, that's part of it, but it's not what it's about. And then churches go, well, why can't we grow? I'm like. Because you don't love people.

Yeah. And it's obvious. What do you mean we don't love people? Really? You need me to explain that to you?

You don't understand? You know, and this is a whole nother topic I don't really want to get into right now. But, you know, the thing is, I really truly believe the reason most people ask that question: why, if God is such a good God, why do so many people go to hell? Is the same reason the church is mocked by the media. Because the church.

is missing the purpose. And the plan. And Those people who ask that question and the media understand that. And therefore, they use it against the church to shut the church down. And there are great arguments and apologetics about that question.

But what I would, for me, the greatest question is not being able to explain from scripture, which I was kind of wanting to do on this whole episode, but is also explain the spirit behind the scripture. Yes. Is that most people. Are sick and tired of the rules and the laws and the dogma of the Western church. Most people would say, We need a revival.

And you're not going to have a revival because of scripture and just teaching from scripture. You're going to have a revival when the Spirit of God begins to move. And people say, I can't explain it, but. I can't explain it, but. Because even though you and I have described some experiences.

The best way we can really explain it is that you're somewhere. And all of a sudden you're like, do that. That thought comes to you, and you go, Well, here's one thing I know: the devil will never tell you to bless somebody. No, the other thing is that afterwards, you have such an immense euphoric experience, and you go. I want that more.

Yeah. And that's the best way, in a non-scriptural way, to explain to people what it's about. And I could use scripture to do it. I teach a lot. In our Bible school, I teach on being led by the Holy Spirit.

And there's scripture for that. But when you start talking about the Holy Spirit, you have to start talking about that part of the human experience that. feels emotional and euphoric. But it's the Holy Spirit. It's different from emotion.

It will allow emotion to run its course, but it's different from that. And it's just like when men go to war zones and they go, Oh, I can tell you to this day what death feels like. When people came up to the mountains here to help look for all the bodies, you know, I asked one man, I said, You know what death smells like? Feels like he goes, Yeah, because there's a spirit and a smell attached to it. And it is the same way with the presence of God, in that when love shows up, you go, Oh wow.

I want more of that. Yeah, I want more of that.

So, anyway, listen, we love you. We're glad you're listening. This is one of the long ones, and we apologize, but we hope it helped you. And maybe, if anything, you realize, wow. I'm not that weird.

I'm not special and I'm not that weird. You're right on. And we appreciate you listening. Don't give up. Don't give up.

And whatever you do, remember this: that Jesus loves people. And love never fails. God bless you.