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An Interview with Robert Spencer on the Palestinian Delusion

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
December 11, 2019 4:30 pm

An Interview with Robert Spencer on the Palestinian Delusion

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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December 11, 2019 4:30 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 12/11/19.


What's the truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. My guest Robert Spencer is going to talk to us today about the Palestinian delusion stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown, is it true that today's Palestinians or ritually descendents of the ancient Canaanites true that there has been a strong error presence through the history of the land of Israel. Is it true that Israelis Jewish people stole the land from the Arabs.

What is true what is false.

What can we know from historical documents.

Why is there such a debate over something that is relatively recent in terms of the forming of the modern state of Israel. What is there that maybe we have not been told accurately the sort that out today. This is Michael Brown and my special guest Robert Spencer if you don't follow G hard you need to its chilling it's eye-opening whenever there is an attack in the world that seems to be the result of Muslim extremism. The first thing I do is I go to Jihad watch to see what are they saying about it.

Robert Spencer, the author of many books, everything is written is important, but his newest book.

I immediately ordered as soon as I saw was out and immediately contacted him to ask him to come on the air.

The Palestinian delusion deals with the history of Israel in a way in more depth than anything that is written thus far. So were thrilled to have Robert with us today. Welcome back to the modifier broadcast.

Thanks much for joining us. Thank you so what motivated you to write this it's it's a bit broader historical focus.

It looks specifically at the land of Israel. What you feel is important to get this book out because of the barrage of information and information that out there now, the whole power Finian enterprise. Probably the most successful propaganda campaign that we've ever seen in human history, and that no exaggeration there people out there who are not only believing but passionately acting upon them, and that includes a great many young American been taught a lot of fault colleges and universities in America today, so I thought I would do what I could to try to correct the record, and to provide a sourcebook for people who want the truth or want to tell others the truth and only talk about the misinformation the disinformation of today's younger generation is passionate about social justice. They often stand with the underdog. They want to see right treatment of minorities.

How has this played out the disinformation.

This information about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, especially in our college campuses. Michael, you know, one of the thing that with the Palestinian people was invented for was in order to be able to manipulate that agenda. The Palestinian people is a show in the book of the propaganda invention that you never heard a thing about them before the 1960 because they didn't exist there. The same ethnically, linguistically, culturally, as the Arab of Jordan of Lebanon.

And even in 1948 when Israel was being founded and there was trim, there was war matter-of-fact between Israel and the neighboring Arab states and it was all sorts of talk about Israel and the modifier of the of the area, not a word was said about Palestinian. They didn't exist, but because of the commitment in general of the so-called progressive movement to the.

The disadvantage to minorities to people who are supposedly disenfranchised the Palestinian people play, thought Doug to the invention of the Palestinian people plays on those kinds of sentiments because before they were existed.

You had tiny Israel, surrounded by 22 gargantuan Arab state and people of the underdog and people love the. The people who are fighting back against oppression of the one that was Israel through Israel enjoyed a great amount of support in the United States to a road that the port and again it's been amazingly successful for even tinier people was invented and is supposedly facing this massive Israeli war machine and this is all complete fiction, but it plays into that idea that if you want to be on the side of the oppressed and the poor minorities then you got the portobello and what about the refugee status that is granted to Palestinians today is that unique and different than refugee status is with with other allegedly displace people's unique and, in contrast, every lap refugee in human history. Up until now. There used to be that if you work at the plate from your own. You are refugee and it was a very simple thing really.

And then if you moved somewhere else than your children were not displaced from their new home and they were not refugee. For example, I myself am the grandson of refugees from the Ottoman Empire. They were exiled from the Ottoman Empire for refusing to convert from Christianity to Islam and that was my grandparents.

They were refugees, but they came to America. My parents were born here and I was born here so by parents are not refugee and I am not a refugee.

However, if I were Palestinian.

Then I would be a refugee. The United Nations recognizes for Palestinians and Palestinians only that refugee status is passed on from the people who actually left the legally area and I show in the book that they were not exiled.

They were not kicked out they were not expelled or their land stolen, but they actually left voluntarily at the call of the Arab higher committee and their children are refugee their grandchildren are refugee, and so on. So you have millions of people in the world today who are legally considered by the United Nations.

Palestinian refugees in a recipient of aid on that basis, who never lived there. Never lived anywhere close to their and it's only that their grandparents or great-grandparents were from that area were supposedly from area speaking with Robert Spencer. His brand-new book the Palestinian delusion, the catastrophic history of the Middle East peace process and and I want to focus on that were catastrophic. A little bit later and and see if there was a specific reason for you choosing it.

But if we go back to this this refugee issue in some of the myths surrounding these things. We will talk about humanitarian treatment will will talk about issues that are of concern that you mentioned there was a certain degree of sympathy for Israel.

It seems that you also have to let have a lot of Jewish people die before there can be much world sympathy for the Jewish people that anti-Semitism seems to be so ingrained that it takes an event like the Holocaust to almost create sympathy for Israel and once Israel is doing a pretty good job of defending its borders. Then there's not much sympathy for Israel to think that's an overstatement on my part right on that anti-Semitism is very deeply ingrained in Christianity. Unfortunately, and it predates Christianity because that was anti-Semitism among the pagan Roman unit is very deeply rooted in Islam in a way that people are aware of and all the things can come together and come together.

Also on the left today. I think that what you have is a strange phenomenon in Europe in particular but also increasingly in the United States of post-Christian left who are deeply anti-Semitic because they hate Israel but also this is something that they have heard in their own family and picked up in their environment and it coalesces with what the lies they're being taught about Israel, such that Israel is the particular focus of the United Nations for human rights abuses when it is very scrupulous and not committing those human rights abuses and many many other countries that actually commit real human rights abuses are ignored at the UN.

There's no doubt that this the deeply anti-Semitic component that comes from a variety of factors, and is responsible for that what's what's so interesting is when you really press it with an anti-Semite justification will be will to choose our evil it is, rather than denying it will reinforce it and try to prove it.

That's when it becomes more and more scary quite so let's let's go back in in history and where would be a good starting point if we want to catch up. You want to go back to the Ottoman Empire.

We want to go back to days before that give us an overview of what the population of what was known as Palestine. From the second century on what what the population look like they are in the land on the first important that the land was known as Palestine from the infantry on because the Romans remained at that right. One 3480 after the bark "revolt among the Jews barcode but with the false Messiah, who led the Jews on an armed revolt against the Roman they lost and were exiled from the land in Judea. The land of the Jews was renamed Palestine.

Palestine, however, was not the name of the people. It was the name that had been plucked out of the Bible by the Roman as it was the name of the ancient enemies of the Jews who no longer existed in the world. The Philistine, but for the Romans. It was just the name of the region. The name they gave the region. It was like Oakland or Staten Island. It was always the name of an area, but never the name of the people or nationality and even though Jews were legally barred from living there after 134 many of them didn't comply in the Roman decree was never fully enforced such that there was a Jewish presence in that land uninterrupted from way before one 3480. Up until the day and that not the same cannot be said of any other people. The Arabs didn't come in until the seventh century and then the Turks later and by the end of the 19th century, the land is part of the Ottoman Empire in the Ottoman Empire is weakening such that when the Ottoman Empire fell at the end of World War I.

You have Israel be land that is now Israel being needed by the Ottoman Empire in its last days to the league of nation and the league of Nations, the precursor to the United Nations, then established gave it gave administration of the land to Britain specifically expressly for the establishment of a Jewish national home, and though the kind of ironic that people say the occupied land or stolen land asked them who through the stolen from, and if they have any historical knowledge and any honesty then there is no answer to that, because the land was actually stolen from anyone.

There never was a Palestinian date.

There never was Palestinian nationality. The idea that Jews took Palestinian land is belied by the historical record. This land was set aside by the governing authority to be a Jewish national home which is what it became what we come back, friends, look at what happened in the late 1800s as Jewish immigration increased into what was then called Palestine what happened then with Arab immigration numbers look like and then what was happening it, or their origins to G how the go back to 1920s and 30s with her arrangement several yards or seven.

I guess Robert Spence is brand-new book to get it Palestinian for cleansing and by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown as friends website. She hawed watch dog org important sobering website to check regularly.

His newest book, the Palestinian delusion so Robert, how how heavily populated was the land of Israel then called Palestine, saying that the mid-1800s, say around the time Mark Twain went there other others going there. How did they describe the land got quite a lot of information about the book Mark Twain celebrated quote that a lot of people are familiar with, but think where he speaks about walking for mile and not seeing anybody and Bland being desolate and forsaken and that this was echoed by many many other people missionaries and people of all, travelers who went there it was. Not a thriving Muslim Arab land.

It was a place where very few people lived, that was extremely poor and had very difficult circumstances because the land was not very fertile or easy to far.

It was only when the Zionist movement began that not only did the Jewish population picked up in the area but also the Muslim Arab population because the Muslim Arab actually followed the Jews to the land in order to gain the economic output gain from the economic opportunities that they offered. What's ironic is that all while the Arab Muslim population rose sharply in Palestine when the Jews started to arrive, and in connection with their arrival. Then those people who were all from somewhere else turned around and claimed that they were the indigenous people of the area and that the Jews that stolen their land so what you're saying is, there was a certain hour population in the land. Certain Jewish population severe population was highly Jewish population, but both small Jewish Jewish immigration begins to increase in the late 1800s the lands now develop more with that is now increased Arab immigration because the lens being work more and and there's more job opportunities for the hour population to the population still bigger than Jewish population, but there still fairly small compared to our our numbers today and and pretty much they are coexisting right. What would that be a fair picture to say be before Hutch amino Seney in the 1920s that the Jewish and Arab populations were working together fairly well fairly well for the most part.

There were some difficulties now and again. But yeah, certainly the it was widely understood. Then, in a way that it's not now among the Arabs that the truth that always been there and that was even a Jew and Arab leader, who at the beginning of the Zionist movement wrote a letter to Jewish leader thing.

Look, yes, of course, this is your land but you really should not come back and settle in. It was for various reasons that the head of his own that are explained in the book of the existence of both the Arabs and the truth was taken for granted as long as the Jews maintained the Dimi status status of second-class under Islamic law that prevailed throughout the Ottoman Empire until the 1850 the abolishment the abolition of the Dimi status in the 1850s by the Ottoman Empire under pressure from the British matter of fact, the British and French and that combined with the beginning of the Zionist movement. A few decades after that created the resentment among the Muslim Arabs of the area because they believed that this was land that was ruled by Islam and under the laws of Islam. Any land that is ruled by Islamic law. At one point belongs by right to Islam forever.

And so they were deeply threatened by the beginning of the Zionist movement, but this was something new they have. It wasn't that Jews had never been there and people were angry because they started to show up there Jews had always been there but it that the thing stopped accepting the idea that they had to live indefinitely under the hegemony of Islamic law.and then sings what happens in several month when does the violence start against the Jewish people.

One of the worst thing that Mars hope our history and it is a sorry history. The history of the Middle East peanut process in the history of the steps for the state of Israel. It's just full of people behaving abominably and one of them was Col. Bertie Harry Waters Taylor who was a British officer in Palestine in 1920. Now the British had just gotten the made the Balfour declaration of 1917 calling for a Jewish national home. They were about to receive the mandate for Palestine that echoed that they had the responsibility to create Jewish national home, but the British also allied with the Arabs again. The Ottoman Empire during World War I, there were many British including TE Lawrence the famous Lawrence of Arabia who thought that the Arabs deserved a reward for helping the British against the Ottoman and so they were against the idea of a Jewish national home.

They wanted to give the area to the Arab so Bertie Harry Waters Taylor actually went to the mufti of Jerusalem Hutch amino Seney and told him that if the Arab performed started to commit terror attack in that area. Then they would be influential British leader and military officials as well who would turn against the Zionist project and so in order to get them to abandon it. Terrorism was the way to do it. That is something that a British official actually told to the mufti and obviously the Muslim Arabs of Palestine follow that advice and continue to follow, so there was British advice behind that's fascinating to hear that that part of it which is is often not told so, then you have outright slaughter of Jews instead grown.

You have these violent uprisings and then there's a peace proposal in in the 1930s, which actually would have been better than the 1947 proposal what happened to that inhabit the Arab leadership response today the beginning of the intransigent that we see even to this day that there have been there with the proposal that you mention in the 30s that been so many things that right up to today with truck deal of the century, and so on and in every one of them. The Palestinian Arabs have to accept a present of a Jewish community that will be essentially autonomous and not under their rule that something that they will not accept and cannot accept because of the dictate in Islamic law that Islam is dominated not be dominated, and they believe that because this land is land that was once ruled by Islamic law in the Ottoman Empire and before that of the Arab Empire that therefore it has to be ruled by Islamic law, forever, and the Koran says in chapter 2 verse 191 drive them out from where they drove you out, which is a very very significant statement. The Arabs were not driven out of Israel. And I show that in many ways, notably in 1948. They were not driven out. They left because the Arab higher committee ordered them to do so, but nonetheless it is part of the mythology that is the construct of the whole Palestinian case here, which is all mythology part of the mythology is that the Jews drove them out of their land so they have a divine command.

They have what is the equivalent for Jews and Christians of one of the 10 Commandments they have a command from a law to drive out those who supposedly drove them out so they could not accept the peace agreement that was offered them in the 30s or the partition that was offered them in the 40s or any of the other peace agreements that have been negotiated since that even when they were negotiated by Muslim Arab leaders they were done so for the purpose of gaining concessions from Israel that would weaken it not in order to establish the framework for genuine people coexist up as equals on an indefinite date and we just have a minute before the next break but when you close the Koran.

Is this something that is in the conscious mind of these Palestinian leaders are some of the more secular this is it just kind of an undercurrent resist something that that they feel is a divine mandate. It's all about Islam from beginning to end. Michael even went in the 60s the Palestinian Israeli conflict with part of the Cold War and the Palestinians were allied with the Soviet Union and there were a lot of the blood of communist rhetoric coming from Palestinian leaders. Even then the backdrop of it, with all the flaws but now it?

But that this is an Islamic imperative. If you read the statement of Palestinian leaders and I have many of them in the book, you'll see that they consistently speak all about a flaw that their objection to Israel is based on the flop and thought of even said even if Israel is destroyed our hatred of the Jews will continue, which shows that their hatred of the Jews is based on Islamic chronic anti-Semitism and not a dispute over the land of Israel and though it just be in the land would just be the latest exacerbation of an older conflict since I'm speaking with Robert Spencer. His new book, the Palestinian delusion and actually just got one. One more second year of we come back.

I I want to ask you about some liberal Jewish scholarship even Israeli scholarship that will often push back against this narrative have an argument that is much more sympathetic to the Palestinian narrative we get into that, and then find out okay.

When we speak about the Palestinians today who are they really where do they come from. So again the book the Palestinian delusion, the author, Robert Spencer, the website she hawed for much larger reporting on what is being done in the name of Allah by committed Muslims from here again is Dr. Michael Brown as the publisher to send it to me so I can consider having Robert on as a guest. I bought the book immediately and I emailed him immediately and said he can you come on and discuss it as he gets into meticulous detail about the history of the region and who the Palestinian people are today. I noticed in our YouTube chat that someone said will you have Robert Spencer on you should have the other side on, in reference to a Jewish professor Richard a Faulk, who has very very different views about the Middle East and history so that leads to a question Robert why is it something that is relatively recent were talking about something within the last 75 years.

The bulk of it. Why is it that there can be such different views on it and that you even have well-known Israeli scholars Jewish scholars who would argue for narrative very different than the narrative that you present. I don't know why that is in a rational because anybody can look at my book and see that everything is exhaustively documented and based on historical records that are available and can be examined and I would challenge anyone to find any inaccuracy in the book the left. Of course the international left Jewish and non-Jewish Israeli and non-Israeli American and non-American. They all hate Israel and have bought into the narrative that arose in the 60s of the Palestinian people.

That narrative arose in the Soviet Union and the creation of the KGB, in collaboration with Yasser Arafat, and I think only a great many of its elements have taken hold and are taken for granted without being sufficiently examined. Also there is a Palestinian propaganda machine that is insufficiently appreciated that I devote a chapter of the book to that manufactured atrocities committed by Israel with a cleverness and an attention to detail that make make take many people in and make them think that the IDF is some monstrous force routinely trampling upon human rights matter fact just a few days ago I saw a photo being distributed on twitter of a little baby and he with supposedly badly burned by an Israeli airstrike in Gaza that was indiscriminately harming civilians and then, on closer examination it turned out that the photo itself came from Iraq in 2017 and had nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. This kind of thing is routine. I discussed the myth of it in the book of photos of various atrocities being taken and misrepresented, and I think a lot of well-meaning liberal Jews and non-Jews. Leftists of all kind. They sometimes see these things and don't realize that they're not authentic and they think that the humanitarian position is to oppose Israel when actually what's being what's happening is that that they are falling victim to very clever, no doubt very skillful propaganda but it still does propaganda yes, so it may be well intended, well-meaning, trying to stand for justice.

Trying to be compassionate, but based on misinformation. It's interesting that in the subtitle you both the Palestinian delusion. You say the catastrophic history of the Middle East peace process. To me there is a double meaning there because of the whole concept in the Muslim Arab world that this is almanac, but this is the catastrophe out what Jews would celebrate is the founding of the modern state of Israel is mourned and in the Arab world is almanac by the the catastrophe. There's a book I read some years ago by Samuel Katz, I believe, and he said it's fascinating that when you look at the Arab press. At that time the Arab press is not reporting this catastrophe. This crisis did you find that as you go further back in history that even the sources that were sympathetic to to the Muslim Arab position were not reporting this massive driving out of refugees by the Jews that we have you been able to document that the matter fact, have a great deal of information and I have more on it in my own book about how the Arab leaders actually told the Arabs to leave the Arab higher committee, which was headed impotently by that same mufti of Jerusalem that we discussed earlier, Hodge amino Husseini. They told he issued orders to the Muslim Arabs of Palestine to leave the area in 1948.

This is attested in multiple sources and many of them at Muslim Arab sources themselves but not nowadays only at the time only in the late 40s and early 50. Was it widely reported that the Arab higher committee had told them to leave because the Arab states were going to go to war with Israel.

The newly declared state of Israel. They were going to destroy it, and these people would be able to say they were thinking they'd be able to come back to their homes in a matter of weeks, and they wanted them out of the line of fire. In the meantime, of course, things did not work out the way they planned. They did not win the war and so those people were not able to go back to their home and they were considered to be hostile to Israel for quite understandable reason, but the idea that they were driven out that they were exiled that they were kicked out. There's just no historical basis for that. It just Palestinian propaganda car since Palestine betrayed the as is sources were released original documents are released after period of years to begin to dig into these many are documents he found consistently the same saying that even even leaflets that were being passed out by the Israelis same by the Jews that were about to become Israeli say hey this room here for both of us and and states can be safely watches her neighbors and things like that was a concerted effort to get that message out and others say, hey, the county can't establish between the Jew and and and and Arab so get out will destroy the Jews and then you come back to your true lands in the midst of all this, the Robert were there any excesses in your view, committed by the Israelis, or if you go back before the foundation of the state that you Goodman of the Stern gang were there any efforts by the Jews, then that would be considered terroristic or or wrong would you say that that the Jewish population was always behaving in a totally ethical way and the only ethical violations were on the other side of that there were violations on both sides.

In the midst of war for independence certainly widely believed that there were violations on both side and many people of goodwill say that, for example, to leave the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem was an example of the airgun Stern gang committing atrocities of their own. However, even their the DVD. Israelis were scrupulously ethical and careful me. I'm not approving of the blowing up of the hotel, but it was the headquarters of the British in the area and the Israelis wanted to establish a state in the air going in the Stern gang were fighting against the British present in the area as well as Americans were committing acts of terrorism and they warned the British that if they didn't leave the hotel.

The hotel would be bombed and it would be bombed at this particular time, and that people should get out of the hotel because it was going to be bombed and the British paid no attention to the and so you gotta wonder over that this responsibility is that when they were doubly and triply worn if the same kind of thing we see happening nowadays in Gaza when it Israel is the only military on earth that actually warns the population before dropping bomb and gift bombs are dropped in civilian areas. A lot of people think the they drop bombs in civilian areas will this is a necessity because Hamas and Islamic Jihad mount attacks from civilian areas. They base their operations in civilian areas so that they can draw a retaliatory fire that they can use for propaganda purposes and Israel tried to counter that by destroying the Hamas and Islamic Jihad installation dropping leaflets the day before or knocking on the roof. It's called dropping non-incendiary devices onto the roof of building a house.

Hamas operation and warning the people to get out so that then when the installation the Hamas operation is destroyed. Nobody is there nobody needs to be there and we see here again that these these things are manipulated anyway and you have patently obviously fake photos the of buildings that have been destroyed and then in the middle of all the dust and rubble and disarray. You have a little pink teddy bear or something thrown on top and it's untouched and there's no dust on it which audit tip you off that it wasn't really there in the morning to get there but it folded propaganda if used for this purpose is really the most scrupulous Barbie in the world in avoiding the billion Notes.

Interesting. Robert didn't think you would notice a friend of ours who the ministry and in England and states that specially works with young people from young teenagers up through folks into their 20s, they brought a group of young people from America and Europe over to Israel and some of them are pro-Israel coming. Most of them really didn't know what to expect and they spent extensive time they they met with local Palestinian leaders, government leaders of his people who said hey my brother was killed by Israeli soldiers that they met with them. They spent hours they stayed in the hotels therein, and met not in the homes and places of government. Things like that heard their stories. Many moving stories. Then they met with Israelis same thing, they met with with IDF they and they came out saying why the Israelis are really trying hard to get this right and it's clear the Palestinians have it in for them again. That was their impression. It's all documented in the video when they were there on the ground looking at things and because I have so many friends that live in Israel when this war going on the sometimes text or email say please pray for my son. He's going into battle now and they have to be so careful to avoid civilian casualties that it puts them at greater risk. So yes, things do go wrong. And yes, things have been done wrong, but there are normally immediately prosecuted and looked into again. One minute before the break in and then I want to focus on who the Palestinian people are today, but from your view, is it really that one-sided.

I mean, I know you're meticulous in your research. You know how to get both sides of the story you're presenting one site. Is it really that one-sided thing Michael court no entity in this world is perfect, and certainly there have been Israelis who have mistreated Palestinian merit and then what happens to them. Invariably they go on trial, and if they're found guilty and they are sentenced to prison. Where is the Palestinian when they commit atrocities against the Israelis there celebrated as heroes and can't be is passed out on the streets of Gaza that the key difference here is not that though the Israeli army is never done anything wrong. That would be a silly thing to say but when they do this is not something that is ordered from higher up and it is not something that goes unpunished. The same cannot be said of the other side yes so so one side tragically is dancing in the streets celebrating the slaughter of Israelis inside and Israel is protesting saying hello people just so who are these millions and millions of thousands. We know they exist because of the so-called West Bank and nations.

Who are they right back.

Talking of the Palestinian delusion with Robert Spencer.

It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown wanted about Palestinian Israeli conflict in detail what Robert Spencer writes is very readable but is meticulously documented his new book the Palestinian delusion. If you're convinced he's wrong and you think he's being one-sided in his presentation.

Get the book, as he says check the sources. Check the quotes check the data he invites it he welcomes it. He gladly debates with those who differ so Robert, we know that there are millions of people today who identify as Palestinians, we know that the population within Israel proper of of Arabs who remained in the land. Maybe one for about 200,000 to roughly 1 1/2 million. We know the roughly 600,000 or so that were displaced are now multiplied millions summon Gaza some of what's called the West Bank to Judea, Samaria, some in taking into other countries still living as refugees amazingly in these Muslim countries but who are these people. That's one and one make sure we get to the second question because it's the last question of the book where we go from here.

So first. Who are these people and then when we go from here. Michael you know I was talking to about two years ago and it was a very interesting conversation because he was explaining to me about how he was indeed Palestinian that it was a tremendous poet Israel, and so on and then along in the course of the conversation, which was very cordial. He started to tell me about how he was Armenian and his grandparents had come from Armenia to the to the land of Palestine in the early 20th century. In order to take advantage of the economic opportunity if there and so I think that he and his experience and its families experience in a microcosm of the answer to who are the people there, mostly from somewhere else and their surnames often betray that because Muslim Arabs often have surnames that the note where there from. And do you have a great many Palestinians whose names show that they need from their there from elsewhere. You also have the fact that the Arabs of the area are pretty much the same as the Arabs of Syria, Lebanon and Jordan is a matter fact is no different in terms of religion in terms of language or culture, ethnicity, there are and they are pretty much the same as the Arabs from all over the region, which is why you'd be there with them what they were.

It was, not a difficult thing for them to pick up and move to a place where the people who were where the Arabs were pretty much like the Arabs, where they had left wasn't a huge displacement like moving from Europe or the Middle East to the United States would be and so what you have are multiple merit over the famous people from Arabs of the surrounding area and the idea that they are different and distinct people is here again a propaganda creation to manipulate people. So there was no such thing as a Palestinian state, Palestinian people, even though they were some that he lived in land for generations and their families were displaced as the war, the war of independence in 1948 when Israel was hacked by the surrounding Arab nations. There was no historic Palestinian people or Palestinian identity was greater Syria.

The people part of work they had tribal identities. So the idea of a Palestinian people. We are the Palestinians that itself is a myth, but the fact is, right now there's a difficult situation with several million people and a situation that could have been resolved decades ago. If either the Arab leadership had accepted the two state solution either in the 30s or and 47 with the partition plan and then since then.

If the surrounding Arab nations to just absorb the refugees as Israel absorbed, it may be 800,000 refugees that had to flee from surrounding Arab Muslim lands in 1947, 1948 so how do we move forward from here and what are the solutions what what's viable. What's doable. We can just turn her back on their situation today was to be done Michael earlier on, you were asking me about Israeli scholars Jewish scholars to dispute them of the thing that I'm saying and I responded by talking to you about the power of propaganda and I think that the Israeli government is not been its own best friend and sometimes not fighting energetically against that propaganda. Now this all started in the 1970s when Menachem Begin, the prime minister of Israel with the Camp David with Jimmy Carter and Anwar Sadat, the president of Egypt and the dot and Carter were pressuring bacon to accept the existence of the Palestinian people know you you I can't really fault bacon for not being able to hold firm against them because it was to against one and they had all sorts of ways to make sure that it was going to happen anyway what that whatever bacon wanted but bacon actually brought in for. we discussed earlier and tried to show Carter the real history of the region and Carter just didn't want to hear it. He was completely closed off to any possibility that the Israelis might be in the right but what needs to be done now is a rescinding of that recognition of the Palestinian people and beginning to speak the truth about how these are the Arabs of Jordan and Lebanon and Theriot in Jordan and Lebanon. Need to take them in as you have noted the way the refugees have been taken in for centuries and ultimately they settle in their new places and there's no problem. Actually Jordan is on land that was supposed to be devoted to the Jewish national home but was detached in the 1920s for another Arab state and that Arab state.

Those people there that the Palestinian state there not any different from the belt thinning the why can't the Palestinian go there if they refuse to obey the laws of Israel and lived there so just have expanded Jordan which is what populations probably well over 60%. We would be called so-called Palestinian the same ethnic origin. So why do you think the other surrounding Arab nations have not more readily welcomed those identifies Palestinians they haven't because they want to keep the refugee problem alive to beat Israel with the Lebanese Aryan the Egyptian. They have not granted the Palestinian ship your Palestinian Muslim Arab who identifies as Palestinian. And you go to Lebanon. They won't let you become a Lebanese because they want to keep you around as refugees so they can point you in faith. Look how terrible Israel is when really they were being terrible or the problem would've been felt decades ago, and so they need to be compelled by the international community of the international community were remotely thane are honest they need to be compelled to reverse the policies and grant the people. The ship that's one of the simple questions I've asked when I've been in these debates were a couple years ago when I was the only pro-Israel speaker in a Palestinian Christian conference. Simple questions why is it that the Arabs who stayed in the land of Israel have flourished gone from 200,000 to 1 1/2 million and have more rights and freedoms than any other Arabs in the Middle East wise that the case why is it that the Arabs who were in Lebanon who were in Syria are still in refugee camps or even refugee camps in in in so-called West Bank Palestinian refugee camps. There were trikes by the posting as we try to explain that to me and I thought how how bizarre that to me is the greatest issue. The greatest proof that those who stayed and became Israeli citizens have grown in and thrived in numbers and and those that went to other countries if they were even admitted there are still treated as refugees and there is even an edict from the Arab League in the 50s and that they they will be treated as as refugees. They will not be incorporating the citizens and this is intentionally to leave. This is an open wound in an open sore so Robert, I'm so pleased that you spent the time to document this to write this and the last last minute who you want to read this book were you writing it for one particular audience or for a broad audience on all sides will really, I hope it's read by anybody good interest in the conflict, but I'm hoping that policymakers in Washington will read it and recognize that our whole stance for the conflict of been based on false premises for decades and it does need to be corrected and am also hoping that parents will compel their college students to read it, and the young people will see that when they are out there marching for Palestine, and all that that they're being manipulated and they're not really working for justice that all yeah and friends. If you care about justice then you got to care about truth. If we get the history right and understand some of the role of Islam in this as well. We can do a much better job to its working towards a viable solution for everyone living in the Middle East that there can be justice for all. He, Robert, thank for the hardware. Thanks for joining us again on such short notice. Much appreciated but I much appreciated but felt like I thanks again, Robert Spencer, the book the Palestinian delusion and as I'm doing this interview. I look up on our YouTube screen and I see someone referencing hey there were Israelis that were dancing on buildings of five Israelis dancing on buildings when they saw that the twin towers coming down, etc. sorry on our Facebook chat. There, referencing that the are you sure you sure about that sure that Israelis were celebrating the full twin towers that there's nothing more to that story and are you implying that Israel was behind the terrorist attacks please edit and there is a massive difference. Let's not look at an alleged isolated incident of a few people and it's alleged okay so look at that.

Let's look at how a populace is a whole response. Let's look let's look at the fact that under Palestinian rule. The men and women who lose their own lives, killing innocent Israelis men women and children. Suicide bombers are hailed as martyrs and hailed as heroes. It is a culture that is dangerously long held the gospel is a history that truth is just

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