The Presidential Debate as a Microcosm of America

Ah, the presidential debate last night. What can we learn from it?

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yes, I have a lot to say about last night's presidential debate, a lot to break down, a lot to talk about, some very serious issues, and I want to get your take. A lot of chaos that was last night's debate, painful and difficult to watch, but as I said last night and as I posted in an article today, the debate is really a snapshot of the state of America.

What was your take last night? Do you think there was a winner or loser? Did Trump win? Did Biden win? Did America win or lose? Was it a fair debate? What's your take?

866-348-7884. Let's look at some of the headlines that were posted last night, and this is a variety of websites, both left wing and right wing, from MSNBC to Breitbart. Let's just look at some of what was reported. A debate night in America. Pure chaos at the first debate. Then this headline. Fall brawl. First Trump-Biden debate full of fiery exchanges, insults as they spar on SCOTUS, COVID, and more.

Here's another. Trump TV spectacle made for video. POTUS relentlessly heckles Biden. Constant interruptions. Tough guy Joe keeps telling Trump to shut up, calls President clown twice.

Inevitable. Wallace double teams Trump. That was actually a conservative website. Drudge report with a big picture of a clown face. Debate slash.

Now that's canceled out. Circus now. Will you shut up, man?

Oldest candidates in history. Here's another. Round one. Mayhem. Here's another.

This is personal. Trump calls Biden incompetent and dem dubs President a clown as furious debate descends into bitter shouting match. And then this.

Live. MSNBC analysis after presidential debate turns into chaotic shouting match. I didn't have the heart to watch any of the post debate analyses, but here on MSNBC, that turns into a chaotic shouting match. And then Trump challenges moderator Chris Wallace. I guess I'm debating you, not him, but that's OK. Biden tells Trump to shut up, calls him racist clown, not presidential. Chris Wallace runs interference for Biden and on and on it goes. If you missed it, let me play two clips that were representative and then I'm going to give you my overall take and do my best to be constructive and practical and edifying and not sensationalistic as we break this down.

All right, clip one. Let's take a listen. Vote and let your senators know how strong you feel. Let vote now.

Make sure you, in fact, let people know you're a senator. I'm not going to answer the question because because the question is, the question is radical left. Will you shut up, man? Who is on your list, Joe? This is on your right, gentlemen.

I think this is so unprecedented. We have ended this segment. We're going to move on to the second segment.

That was really a productive segment, wasn't it? Keep yapping, man. The people understand you.

Forty seven years, you've done nothing. They understand. All right. The second subject is covid-19, which is an awfully serious subject. So let's try to be serious about it.

All right. I mean, that's a little taste. Now, on the one hand, it's absolutely outrageous that Biden refused to answer that question. It's absolutely outrageous that Chris Wallace didn't push him on it. But the way the bickering starts and then Trump interrupting and challenging because he's not answering, but you're not supposed to be interrupting at that point. And then Biden would tell him, you just shut up, man. And then Chris Wallace and they're all talking at the same time. I felt like it was one of these family squabbles where you just say, is there an adult in the room?

Will somebody stand up and just tell everybody? Be quiet, children. Be quiet.

That's how I felt watching it. And many others from all sides felt the same way. Now, there were worse moments with all three talking at the same time.

But here's a good example of the kind of back and forth and the pettiness on all sides. Let's listen. Number one, Joe, you agreed with Bernie Sanders. I left on the manifesto. Manifested you socialized medicine. Look, hey, are you saying I'm not going to listen to him? The fact of the matter is I beat Bernie Sanders.

Not by much. I beat him a whole hell of a lot. I'm here. I'm here standing facing you. I just would have left two days early.

You would have lost every problem. He knows how to do is Tuesday. You got very lucky. There's a deal. I got very lucky.

I'm very lucky tonight as well. And tonight I'm going to make sure because here's the deal. All right. That was a little snapshot of what happened over the course of the night. Here's the article that I wrote. I stepped back. I prayed.

All right. There's going to be so much post debate analysis. Going to be breakdown and defending this one, defending that one, who won back and forth. And when I really looked at it, I thought, OK, America lost. This is a picture of America. So that's the article that I wrote. The presidential debate was a snapshot of America. If you haven't read it, it's at Stream.org.

It's at AskDrBrown.org. The presidential debate was a snapshot of America. And as I say in the article, the debate was a microcosm of the state of America. We are gravely divided. We are nasty.

We burn bridges rather than build them. We don't trust anyone that is not in our camp. We are deeply suspicious. Everyone seems biased. And the question, are there any national unifying voices?

Sadly, there are not. All right. And I noticed that someone posted this on Facebook today after reading my article. And this is what she said. She said, you write what I'm thinking.

Loki said, thank you for saying everything I've been thinking since last night and saying it so much better. That's why I'm introduced as your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. I'm trying to get God's heart, wisdom, truth. And I know that many of you feel the same way, but you don't have the platform that we don't that we have. You don't have the radio reach, the Internet reach, the social media reach. So we want to use that and be your voice. We also want to hear from you. That's why we have live radio so we can hear from you.

Eight, six, six, three, four truth. That's why we post everything on the Internet so you can interact and comment. And there are tens of thousands of comments every month. So we appreciate you weighing in. But we're we're trying to step back and get clarity. No, I don't claim to be perfectly unbiased. Who is I do my best to be.

But obviously I'm not right. But I am trying to be as objective as I can be before the Lord. I'm making that effort rather than just weighing in in a partisan way. OK, so a few large thoughts about the debate. Number one, why do you do debates? You do debates to change people's minds. You do debates to get people to hear your position and embrace your position. And let's say when you're doing a debate, let's say I'm debating an Orthodox rabbi like my friend Rabbi Shmueli.

I want people to consider Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and he wants them not to. So let's say you'll have three major groups if you if you make broad divisions. One group is the group that really agrees with me. The other group is the group that really agrees with Rabbi Shmueli. The other group is kind of between leaning one way or the other.

Not sure. So I always want to strengthen those that are with me. In other words, I want them to leave feeling fortified, strengthened, encouraged, energized. And I want to get the people in Rabbi Shmueli's camp, the ones that are completely on the other side, I want to get them thinking.

I want to get them wondering, could there be truth to this position that they've always rejected? But the ones that I'm going to have the greatest potential impact on are the ones that are kind of in the middle, which they're not really sure. So let's say let's just say that in the debate, if there was an arbitrary way to score it, let's just say in the debate, I won eight to two.

All right. The people in Shmueli's camp, they'll be a little shaken by that, but they'll probably still think he won. The people in my camp will think I totally demolished him. But it's the ones in the middle leaning a little one way, a little the other, that I've got the best chance to maybe influence them to really consider my position. That's why you do the debate. I don't think either candidate succeeded at all in influencing the people in the middle. I think they missed enough opportunities.

I think they did enough things that were self-destructive along the way that they missed their moments. And listen, I say this as a debater. I say this as someone who's been in the hot seat, been on the stage in major events, universities or things that are being broadcast, live streamed and watched by thousands.

No, obviously not the tens of millions that watched last night or debate of that consequence in terms of the national elections, but high stakes debates on key issues. I've been in the hot seat. I've been in that situation many, many times. I have experience in this. And look, there's such a thing as optics.

Certain things play well and others don't play well. And the whole reason you're doing the debate is to effectively communicate your position and get people to consider your position, win them over to your position. That's why you do it. And you're convinced that you're on the side of truth.

All right. So number one, President Trump sadly set the tone with his interruptions. He did it from early on. And there are rules. You get to speak two minutes.

That was the thing. Other gets to answer two minutes. Back and forth talk.

There was plenty of opportunity to go back and forth. You don't interrupt during the other person's time. It makes you look bad.

It makes you look petty. So he messed up with that. And he did it through the night fail on his head. Joe Biden on his end. What does he do? He retaliates with insults. He calls the president to clown twice, tells him to shut up, calls him a liar and other things like that. He failed there. That if you're getting interrupted, there's a way where you take the higher ground instead of that.

Then you end up. And listen, I've been in situations where I get whiny and other and it's just every everybody looks bad. As for Chris Wallace, he did not moderate fairly. That seems very, very clear the way he challenged Trump on certain questions, the way he repeated things that are absolute lies and set it up as a question.

He did not push back on Biden to answer the way he pushed back on Trump. No question about that in terms of not a fair job of moderation. And then he got as bad as the debate and everybody. It's like, stop.

Will somebody just stop? I'm sure many of you felt like that. That being said, I don't know what he could have done to force Trump and then Biden to play by the rules.

I believe if he had gotten Trump to play by the rules that Biden would have played by the rules. I don't know what you do in a situation like that other than cutting someone's mic off. I don't know how to handle that. So it was a difficult situation. But overall, it ended up being a mess and a hodgepodge, something that, again, gives a picture of the divided state. Nasty, angry. Everybody's wrong.

Nobody's right. State of America. That's why the elections can only go so far. There must be awakening that changes our nation.

We're in bad shape. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire.

Going to the phones soon to get your take on last night's debate, 866-34-87884. A few other larger things I just want to address. One is with the battle being fought the way it was. It's kind of like you signed up for a boxing match with gloves and regulation ring and all this and ends up with a street fight. One guy bringing a baseball bat and a knife and biting and kicking and wrestling on the floor. It ends up just being a mess and everybody in the process gets dirty.

You feel you got dirty just watching. That also means that the major issues of substance, which is what we really needed to focus on, really got overlooked. Now, on a debating level, debating principle, there were obvious misses. And by the way, I know that here and there, there was some rambling with Joe Biden. But with everything that was expected in terms of dementia and he can't think and he can't speak and all this, he did as well as you could expect. In other words, I think he came out fine in that regard. And Trump, while he's losing, I think he came out fine.

Again, their demeanor and the way they treated each other and the interrupting and the bickering and the insulting that that was degrading for both of them. You say, well, once the president, he shouldn't act like that. I agree 100 percent. On the other hand, you don't call the president a clown and tell him to shut up so that the sword cuts both ways in that regard. All right. But when something comes your way, that is an absolute falsehood, you need to boom. You've got to refute it head on, head on. So the Charlottesville lie that will unpack a little bit later in the broadcast, the Charlottesville lie that Trump said that neo-Nazis and white supremacists, that some of them are very fine people.

All right. Which he categorically said the opposite of that very weak on a few occasions. In any case, he never smashed that.

It's out there, comes to you, smash it. On the flip side, when you refuse to answer a direct question of importance, will you pack the Supreme Court? And Joe Biden says, I'm not going to answer that because that would become the issue.

That's supposed to be the issue. That's what you're being asked. That's a big question. Americans need to know. Boom. Fail there.

So you had those kinds of things that that happened. I don't think that Trump lost any of his support, any of his base by being the way he was, because that's the way he's been from day one. And those that can't vote for him for those reasons aren't voting for him. And everyone else saying, hey, that's not why I voted for him anyway. You know, I voted for the policies and he is the way he is.

On the flip side, is it possible that Biden saying, you know, I'm the Democrat Party denying the platform that the manifesto that he and Bernie Sanders put together distancing himself from the Green New Deal, saying categorically he doesn't want to defund police, will that lose some of the left base? Those are questions that would have been good questions to discuss. But again, got lost in the overflow of what happened. All right. Here's what I posted on Twitter. I posted a couple of polls during the debate. So one is who is being more civil in the debate? Now, remember, overwhelmingly, my Twitter followers would be if he if he said he voted for Trump or Biden, overwhelmingly would be Trump.

Nonetheless, still he came out lower there. Who's being more civil? Trump, 18.6 percent. Biden, 22.2 percent. Neither 57.7 percent.

That's really true. I should have asked who's being less civil and then both 1.5 percent. So obviously, almost nobody thought that. Then another question I asked in terms of who won the debate in your view, who won the debate? So here's the interesting response on Twitter. Who won the debate?

In your opinion, I gave four choices. Biden, 8.5 percent. Trump, 36.6 percent. Neither. Neither 19.7 percent.

Last choice. America lost 35.2 percent. So on my Twitter feed, it's not it's not big. It's like forty three and a half thousand or something like that. So it's not one of these with tens of millions.

All right. But it's a good representative chunk on that feed. You would say that the great majority of those following me would consider themselves Christian conservatives. Right. The the great, great majority. We have many that don't agree, but that would be the great majority. So think of this.

Think of this. Almost as many said America lost, as said Trump won. That that to me says a lot. And I tweeted this out during the debate. I said there's so much dirt flying.

It's hard not to feel dirty. Just watching. And then when the debate ended, I posted this because again, it's the presidential election. Who are you voting for? Right. Tonight's debate reminded me again that there is a lot I don't like about the way real Donald Trump handles himself.

That's his Twitter handle. Real Donald Trump. But hands down, he gets my vote for policies as well as gets my vote against the Democratic policies. So I'm going to shout out as loudly as ever have the day after Donald Trump is not my savior. Donald Trump is not my deliverer. My hope is not in Donald Trump.

My hope is in Jesus, my savior, deliverer, my all in all. He's the one I preach. He's the one I love. He's the one I declare. When the name of Trump is forgotten, when the name of America is forgotten, the name of Jesus will be exalted forever and ever. And we will worship him to the glory of God the Father.

Period. That's who I am. That's my heart. That's my stance as to who I prefer to have in president as president between the two choices.

Now I prefer Donald Trump over Joe Biden. And that's how I vote. But friends, let's recognize we're dealing with human beings, weak human beings that need prayer, that need God, and that can only go so far in what they do.

And that's the reality. All right. We go to the phones.

Let's start with Alex in Richmond, Kentucky. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown. It is so good to be talking with you. And I'm thankful for just all the things that you said. So I'm thankful for this conversation politically. I'm sort of moderate.

There are fundamental things that I do not support with the Democratic platform, but I'm also really struggling with Trump. And so just a little bit of my background. So I'm a college minister in Kentucky. I work on a number of different college campuses.

I work with evangelism, discipleship, teaching on the Holy Spirit. But since we're a multi-ethnic campus ministry, I also care a lot about racial reconciliation and justice. So one of the ministries I run is pretty much all black students.

So I'm constantly talking to black students, some who are Christians, many who are not. And with the perspective I have, I'm very troubled with how President Trump and his communication about law and order and racial justice affected some of my students the way that he didn't denounce white supremacists. Like when he had the opportunity, he kind of like played around with it and like wasn't firm on it. That's troubling to me. The way that he focused almost exclusively on law and order and having the backing of police officers, but not talking about the need for police reform and justice reform.

That's troubling. He didn't say anything about systemic injustice, like Biden said. He mentioned the violent protests.

But for many of my college students, like they're out protesting and they're not being violent. So like, how does that how does that sound to them? On the flip side, who's Biden? So Biden has been in 47 years in government, hasn't solved these problems himself. And now he wants to work on it.

And then at the same time, you know, he's lied in the past about participating in the civil rights movement, the whole if you don't vote for me, you ain't black comment. Yeah. So honestly, I'm just grieved at the lack of unity in the church.

And I'm grieved at how my black brothers and sisters feel. Yeah. And Alex is pretty awful.

Yeah. You hit the nail on the head in a number of different key ways. And remember, each one is also playing to their base. So Trump knows many Americans are upset about the riots. In fact, that those have hurt the Democrat cause the the quote that Joe Biden attributed to Kellyanne Conway, that, you know, the riots are good or encouraging them, which he was saying was they're helping our cause. In other words, when people see chaos in the streets, they realize where the Democrats are going. He wasn't encouraging it. So it was stated, but it was inaccurately represented. But Trump is saying, hey, I stand for law and order and and his base wants him to and to stand against the riots.

And they have made the BLM movement less popular than they were back in June. And of course, Joe Biden clearly said he does. He does not stand for defunding the police. So that was you know, he was saying that he realized that that's that's important. But there is no question that Trump missed a clear opportunity to to make his positions clear. Now, he did state the positive in terms of what he's done to help black Americans. And you have to reiterate that Biden's bill ends up with more blacks in jail. Trump's prison reform ends up with blacks out of jail. Trump stands with historically black colleges. Unemployment rates have helped black Americans, et cetera.

You know, lowering unemployment rates. But when he was asked specifically and Kai, maybe we can pull that transcript up from the Breitbart article where we actually go back and forth in the exchange. When when he answered with stand back and stand by, he totally blew his opportunity.

But if you look at the actual transcript, here's what happens. OK. So, Chris Wallace, you have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa, which Biden ridiculously said is an idea, not a group. Trump.

That's right. Wallace and other left wing extremist groups just need to lift that up on the screen there. And other left wing extremist groups. But you are willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups. Trump. Sure, Wallace, and to say they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen, important Trump.

Sure, I'm willing to do that. Wallace, you prepared specifically to do it. Trump. I would say, Wallace, go ahead, sir.

I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. Wallace. So what you are what you are saying, Trump, I'm willing to do anything.

I want to see peace. Wallace. Well, then do it, sir. Trump, I am. Say it.

Do it. Biden. That's that's Biden joining it. Trump, you call them. What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. Wallace, white supremacist, right wing militia.

Go ahead. Trump says, who would you like me to condemn? White supremacists, the proud boys. Trump, who?

White supremacists and right wing militia. Trump, proud boys. Stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what.

Somebody's got to do something about Antifa in the left, et cetera. So he kept saying, sure. Yes, yes, yes, yes. When it came to that moment, he's trying to use Chris Wallace's term, stand down. And he says it totally poorly. Stand back and stand by. Blew that moment. But as you'll see when we come back on the other side of the break, he has been consistent in denouncing these groups.

He blew his moment. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire.

Eight, six, six, three, four. Truth was your take on last night's presidential debate. I want to hear from you.

I'm going to go to your calls momentarily and spend most of the rest of the show taking your calls. Let me just say this for those. But we've got to be strong. You can be strong without being nasty. You can be strong without insulting. You can be strong without interrupting.

And I can say, take it from me. I understand what it's like to be in hostile debates. I understand what it's like to be against a hostile opponent. I understand what it's like to work with someone that doesn't play by the rules.

I understand what it's like when you realize that the audience is stacked against your position. OK, I understand all those things. There are biblical principles. Read through the Book of Proverbs. There are biblical principles. And now just talk to us as believers. Some of us want to sound so righteous. I'm not backing down. We just get nasty.

We sound babyish. The less people listen to us, the more we yell and post new verses now and in all caps as opposed to how can I reach this person? How if I'm sure I'm on the right side, they're on the wrong side, then the love of God should move me to want to reach them and help them. And Proverbs 51 remains true that a harsh word stirs up strife, but a gentle answer turns away wrath. It remains true. Proverbs 25, that a soft answer breaks the bones. Want to be effective, right? You want to make a difference, want to make an impact. So I believe neither party has done a consistently good job in terms of racial reconciliation because of divisive politics.

All right. And and that remains a big issue. So I believe Trump missed an opportunity to answer something clearly.

But here's the dig behind it. He's not going to play the game where he feels he's already answered something. And he does not want to focus on the white militias and the white supremacists because he doesn't. That's the big problem in the city, right? He thinks it's all coming from the left and the vast majority clearly is coming from the left, the vast, vast, vast majority of the rioting and the looting and the vandalism and the uprisings across America. And there's no question that you have rising tide of white supremacy and white nationalism. That's ugly and destructive.

They're just not going around looting in cities the same way the others are. OK, both of these are dangerous negative factions. It's just that the left is having a certain more visible impact now. So Trump was going to emphasize what he felt was important. But I just want to go back to the Charlottesville lie that has been repeated endlessly. That was part of Chris Wallace's question to Joe Biden. And then Joe Biden was quite ready and paint a picture of that of the ugly, you know, hateful faces from Charlottesville.

And then wrongly claiming that Trump said some very, very fine people. So I want to go back to the actual facts of the matter. OK, search my article, the Charlottesville lie must die on our Web site.

So August 12th, 2017, this is immediately in the aftermath of what happened in Charlottesville and the tragic death of the young woman there. He said, I think there is blame on both sides. Then he's talking about people protesting the removal of the Confederate statue.

You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. What did he mean? He meant that there were people there that just didn't think the statue should come down, but they weren't white supremacists. That was his point. OK, so now two days later, he issues this statement. Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups. Right.

This is August 14th, 2015, 2017. Then August 15th, he said, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. He was asked, what did you mean by very fine people?

So this is all that very weak. He explained you had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of to them a very important, very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. Then when he was asked if we should take down statues of Thomas Jefferson, he said, OK, good. Are we going to take down the statue?

Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down the his statue? So you know what? It's fine. You're changing history.

You're changing culture. And you had people and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. OK. And the press had treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers.

And you see them come with the black outfits, helmets, the baseball bats. You've got you had a lot of bad you had a lot of bad people in the other group. Then Trump is asked, you're saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

He says, no, no. There were people in that rally. And I looked the night before. If you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I'm sure in that group there are some very some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had come rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. So was it four separate times he makes himself clear?

The lie has been perpetrated is an outright lie that Trump said white supremacists, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, these others are very fine people. It was repeated last night. It was it was implicit in the question from Chris Wallace. It was obviously a major, you know, throw throw a nice, slow pitch to Joe Biden to hit on that one. And Trump failed to grab that and say that is a categorical lie.

I condemned in the plaintiff's terms. People know it's a lie and they spread it anyway. But others don't know it's a lie. And that was a miss on his end. OK. And of course, it's getting reported now that he told white nationalists to stand by, they stand by, be ready. That's the way it's being reported. So he missed an opportunity.

He did. On the other hand, Joe Biden perpetrated a dangerous lie. There you go.

That's reality. 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go over to David and San Antonio, Texas. What's in your mind, sir? Shalom, Dr. Brown. Shalom. Shalom. By the way, we could use a little Shalom right now, don't you think? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

Yes, we we we could. But I I had. I watched the debate last night and I and I prayed.

Read the scriptures for a long time. And and I thought back and I thought back to 2016 and the exact same moderator. Pulled off the exact same bias.

In the debate in 2016. So what's your what's your take now? What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are what you'll do. I mean, it's it's it's what we should expect from media. Because the media is coming from a leftist position, they're coming from they're already protect want to protect their position.

All right. So in other words, your big takeaway was the was the unfairness of this should have been the fairest terms of the the moderators. I mean, Chris Wallace being on Fox News, but obviously not being a Trump support, I guess, registered Democrat. But but either way, again, I don't envy the position he was in in terms of trying to rein the thing in and get Trump especially to play by the rules and then get get Biden to respond and so on.

It was not an easy position. But but the bias, I think, is hard to deny. But again, there is a way where if that's the case, then all you have to do is look the part of the victim. You can be strong and be honest. You can be firm, but you make it clear. It's like, hey, I'm getting ganged up on here.

And sympathies will turn in your direction. It's reality. It's reality.

I'm talking from experience and I'm talking from obvious optics. They're just giving post debate comments here. It's six, six, three, four truth. We go to Rachel in Oxford, North Carolina. Thanks for calling the line of fire.

Thank you, Dr. Brown. How are you, Rachel? Are you the same Rachel that called me? Yes. OK. Yes.

2007. You called me the older black sister that was getting ridiculed for not wanting to vote for Obama. All right.

That was actually a call that I remember to this day. Tell me if I have these things right. OK. When I asked when when issues because we knew that that many black Christians are conservative in their moral and family values. And yet President Obama's views or Senator Obama's views were contrary to that. And you said you're old enough to remember the speeches of Dr. King, that this is a spiritual battle, that you were in churches where they prayed by name for the election of President Obama, and that you then got a copy of the letter from from gay Democrats in San Francisco, where they were thanking President Obama for his stand on X, Y, Z issues, which would have been completely contrary to where your friends did.

So you tried the experiment. And rather than than saying, hey, this is about President Obama or his letter to them, you you read it. You read his letter to them without saying who it was. So they categorically differed with it. And then you said this was President Obama or Senator Obama. And they refused to believe it was actually him.

And you said it's a spiritual battle. It was more than that, even. I had researched his stance on abortion when he was still, before he had even run for presidency. And it was horrendous.

Even the far left didn't agree with his stance. And that is what we're dealing with today. Today, we are dealing with all of that.

So our vote means so much. But, yeah, I was ridiculed like you cannot believe and could figure figure that was 2007. And it was like and I didn't have an opportunity to bring you up to date. But I was in a revival in a revival meeting the day after they announced that that Trump had won. They had a district, a district head that was doing the revival. And he was on a good roll Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

The man broke down and cried and hit his head on the on the podium and almost couldn't go on. I mean, he was so I asked my husband if it would be disrespectful for us to get up and leave. So anyway, wow. So all of that. Yeah. OK. Tell you what, I want to let you speak without interruption.

We have a break coming up. But let me just tell you, it is a delight to hear from you. Thirteen years later, it was just one of those calls that stuck with me. And that's why I mean, if my memory was that good to remember every call from 13 years ago, that would be that would be impressive. But yeah, I remember it. And we're still in that spiritual battle. So I have a question for you on the other side of the break.

But you get to go first. So glad to hear from our our old friend Rachel from Oxford, North Carolina. We'll be right back with your other calls to. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us. If you haven't read my article on last night's presidential debate being a microcosm of America, you can do that over at our Web site.

That's Dr. Brown dot org or over at stream dot org. All right, Rachel, back to you. Yes, sir. OK, so anyway, your question and the conversation is about the debate.

And again, I've got a different panoramic view. I really believe that. This is just my personal thought that Biden would have delivered the insult, even if Trump hadn't initiated them. I think that he was prepped to to divert attention and that the one thing that may be the only thing that he would be capable of.

To a strong degree would be to to lash out with insult. So I believe it would have happened even if I'm not pleased that Trump initiated it. However, I believe that that Biden would have started it himself because what else was he going to be able to do? So so the fact is, I agree that he would have been nasty, insulting, in other words, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And some of the lines were obviously made for that as far as his campaign.

They don't seem to regret things that I was sent to link that they're selling T-shirts now. Will you shut up, man? So that's right. So the and the strategy was, again, deflect from the question to you and attack Trump. But all I'm saying is from a winning a debate point.

All right. So you insult me. I don't reply in kind.

Said, hey, I'm I'm not going to get in the gutter. Let's look at the issues in your statesmen. You you end up winning people over because the other one, the better you look, the worse they locate. One last question for you. Once the there was a second term with President Obama and he openly came out in terms of redefining marriage and things like that. Did that change the views of any of your black church colleagues?

Yes. But I would like to say to you, just like there are going to be people that are going to cast a vote for Trump and not tell it. Those people, I could tell it by their attitude toward me because they're they they didn't view me anymore. Like I fell out of Effie's back end. OK, so the fact that they were that they were more kind and warm to me, let me know that they actually were seeing it. There are still diehards now.

And, you know, just like just like back then, you know, well, here I do see there with the people on the on the limb. I see your point. But don't you want to be able to tell your grands and whatever that you live to see a black president?

No, because I don't I don't want to function on color unless it's the blood of Jesus Christ, which is red. And I really believe that the winner to all of this has got to be us. We're viewing what everybody else is doing. And the world strictly says this is all a diversion. It is.

It is because the world strictly says that it falls on us, his people, so that we need to and for everybody listening or whatever, we need to stand on Christ, the solid rock. So that means you know what to do. I don't have to tell you and nobody else has to tell you. So, you know, when you cast those cast those votes and when you're, you know, making your opinions about a debate or whatever. And Dr. Brown, to be honest with you, I didn't watch it. I'm listening to what's going on.

I read articles on the Internet about it. I didn't watch it because what you did was my time. Yeah, you did waste of my time.

Yeah. And it would have sullied you to us. It was frustrating and difficult.

I mean, I knew it's important that I talk about it on the air today and I write about it in a constructive way. But after that, it's like I just want to go pray and talk to people about Jesus, to be honest. Hey, Rachel, I have one request for you. Don't make it so long between calls. All right. Isn't that something?

And I was saying that to myself for all these years. But anyway, your call is usually they usually accommodate what I might be thinking or feeling. And I think one time. But anyway, so I just wanted to say that I believe that that was the maximum of Biden's capabilities. I understand.

To lash out and be mean and nasty. God bless you. God bless. And again, there's a call that I didn't forget from 13 years ago. So great to hear from you again.

Eight, six, six, three, four truth. Let's see. Well, we got time for more calls.

Absolutely. Marine in New York City. Thanks for holding. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. How are you? Doing just fine.

Thank you. I want to talk about the issue as an African-American conservative. I have been from Missouri and moved to New York in 85. And I'm in the entertainment industry. I come from London, being liberals, being liberal. You know, everyone, you know, educated to care and family, blah, blah, blah. And so I moved here when I was 18. And so for me, you know, I began reading about politics when I was 10 years old. Communism, Marxism, socialism, and a lot of the issues in black America, Dr. Brown, the level of ignorance. It really is palpable. I already knew the whole jive about racism.

They've been doing it since I was 19. In other words, using race to divide and keep people down, etc. Absolutely. You know, and the thing for me when I moved here, I knew three things immediately that come from a conservative, you know, and most African-Americans, as your prior caller said, we come from conservative background. Right was right. Wrong was wrong. White was white. Black was black. Man was man. You know, I mean, we were educated.

We never got in trouble with the law. But when I moved here, you know, New York, a blue state, I knew three things about the Democrat Party, Dr. Brown, within a year. They hated Christians.

They had a lust for abortion. And they used race for everything. And so to me, President Trump, he's a guy from Queens.

I've been here for 35 years. And and I what I find so despicable is that Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Jerry Natler, Al Sharpton, all of these people know he isn't a racist because they went to him for everything. Dr. Brown, the rappers, the socialites, the entertainers, everybody wanted to be in Donald Trump's presence.

Once he put an R by his name for his political affiliation, everything changed. So to me, last night, you know, there are people that love the Confederate flag. I don't really understand it, but I don't I'm not afraid walking by them. I'm not afraid of the NRA. I'm not afraid of militia. I don't want to be anywhere near an Antifa social justice warrior. Black Lives Matter riot. I'm filming riots from my balcony.

I live in midtown in the 40s, but I'm not trying to be melodramatic. It's all the rules. It's all the rules. And, you know, he is a street fighter.

It was very frustrating on both parts. He has done more for African-Americans in four years than Kamala Harris, Joe Biden and the party in general since its inception. But if you don't know all you the Democrats know, Dr. Brown, they have to get black people apoplectic regarding race, buzzwords, KKK, lynching, you know, torches. You know, all of these things. Every cop wants to kill a black person the minute they see them. You know, inequality is all of these words.

And then they're off to the next race until another four years. But black Christians that I know cannot decipher. They are emotionally untethered, Dr. Brown. And I'm talking about Christians that I know. I said to him, if you are if you believe in the blood of Jesus, how in the world can this even be a debate? I, you know, what is just look at the platform.

And that's what upset me about Chris Wallace. Just line them up. Do you believe in two genders? Do you believe in 2A? Do you believe in the Constitution? Do you want, you know, just because people don't even know the platforms of the parties that they claim to endorse, particularly my Democrat friends. They don't know. So they can say Donald Trump's a racist and he supports, you know, supremacy. But these politicians know that it's a lie. It's a lie. And especially Cuomo, all of these guys in New York.

I've been here 35 years. They know it isn't true because they wanted everything from this man before he put an R by his name. You know, Maureen, as you as you speak to these issues with with such clarity and obviously everyone on every side needs to look at the platforms, look at the issues. But it is interesting in terms of the attack on the person of Donald Trump. He's been the same person when when Hollywood loved him and people wanted to be on Celebrity Apprentice. He was the same. It was not like he was a nice, nice guy. No, he was insulting and profane.

He was the same person. Yeah, I mean, I don't like the profanity. But to me, we listen, we got slick. We got slick Obama with the great words and the good looks and the smile and, you know, just an empty politician.

And for me, not only being, you know, in the body of politics I've loved and I've read, you know, for decades, I clearly knew I didn't want a politician. Got it. I knew why I voted for him. Hey, Maureen, I've got to jump in. I've got to jump in. I've got two seconds left. But we will post your call for others to hear because you speak from many and let none of us be guilty of voting based on ignorance or emotion. Let us vote on what is best for America.