If Not For God

This is Stu Epperson from the Truth Talk Podcast, connecting current events, pop culture, and theology. And we're so grateful for you that you've chosen the Truth Podcast Network.

It's about to start in just a few seconds. Enjoy it, and please share it around with all your friends. Thanks for listening, and thanks for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together, we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into Kingdom Pursuits. Now, live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore. Well, welcome to Kingdom Pursuits today. We are going to have a blast because we have my old friend Mike Zwick with you, and I like to call him the Zwickopedia.

And especially, you may not know this, but he's the Zwickopedia of humor. We're going to get to that in a minute. But you know, I just like to say, if not, for God continues, right, Mike? Amen, brother, amen. And I remember when I first came on your show, one of the things that you said was, you said, Mike, go in here and do your show.

And I was there for about an hour, an hour and a half, and nothing seemed to be clicking. And I said, Robbie, would you mind doing this with me? And we did our first show, and it was great, man, and the rest is history. So it really should have been If Not For God with Mike Zwick and Robbie Dilmore because you were a huge part of that show. Yeah, well, you know, it was it was an honor, honor to do that and so fun. And I'm just glad to have you back to talk about, you know, what's what's going on with Mike these days. But and so, you know, If Not For God is on a little bit of a hiatus right now, as far as the radio is concerned. But you have a YouTube channel, right?

There's still. I do, man. And, you know, it's funny. The I first got on to the Truth Network because of my friend Tony Jackson. And Tony, when he called, he he called me one night and he said, Mike, he said, you know, we were just talking about this and that. And I started preaching to him over the phone.

And he said, hey, Mike, you need to come on the radio. And so I I went on the sister station, which is I think you can check light the triad dot com. Right.

Right. The last lady, the light. And I was on their show at eight thirty on Saturday mornings. And and I'll be on there actually on the 30th as well. But I started doing that and I felt the Lord prompting me to talk to somebody about having my own show. And I remember seeing you walking down the hall and I said, I called the Truth Network and you called me back. And and you said, Mike, we've we've got a spot for you. And it's at six o'clock in the morning. And I said, OK. And I I spoke to my friend. I think it was Chuck Riesch out of who's out of New Mexico now. And he said, Mike, nobody's you may not have as many people listening to the radio at six.

See if they've got another time. And and you said, well, Mike, eight thirty a.m. opened up. And so we did it for, gosh, it was about three years or so. And but it was really cool.

I really enjoyed it. And so but I realized since I since I left and I'm on hiatus, my wife asked me, Mike, who replaced you on Saturday mornings? And so this morning I was listening and I realized that David Jeremiah replaced.

We had to find big shoes. I said, hey, you know, I hate to be off the radio, but if I'm going to be replaced by anybody. Right, right.

David Jeremiah is the guy. Oh, that's pretty cool. So as we talked about that, Mike loves I know Mike loves a good joke because we're good friends. And so speaking of Zwick, a pedia of humor, right?

You're going to like these, Mike. All right. It's time. Yes, to play shenanigans with the zikopedia of your humor humor himself. So a horse walked into a bar. You may have never heard that before. But a horse, a horse did walk into a bar and he says, hey, so, you know, what did the bartender tell him? I can I answer? Yeah.

Why the long face? I like that. I've heard this before.

Actually, there's another answer, right? So what did the horse say? What did the horse say? He said, yes, please. Get it? Hey, it'll come to you, right?

All right. So here's another question for you. You may have heard this one, too, but I do love it.

It was sent to me actually by Melanie, our traffic person. You like that, right, Grayson? So anyway, glass coffins. I don't know you thought about this new crave that new craze that's going around glass coffins.

Will they be popular? I don't know. Do you know, Grayson? No, I don't.

Remains to be seen. That is good. I like that one. You may know this one.

Grayson, this is your kind of joke right here. Why aren't dogs good dancers? I know you've wondered about that. If you've seen them, not many commercials hosting dogs dancing.

But you know why dogs aren't good dancers? What's that? Think about it. Two left feet. All right. So how about this one? You know this one. Why did Beethoven get rid of all his chickens? Because they all they would ever say is, bawk, bawk, bawk, bawk, bawk, bawk.

They never said Beethoven. They didn't have one. That's pretty good, man. That's pretty good. And you've got children now, right? You've got two, three.

I've got three. Actually, it was my daughter Ann's second birthday yesterday. Oh, and we're celebrating today. And Robbie, I found out that September the 9th is the most popular birthday, the most popular day that people are born in the whole world. Well, there you go. And so I bet you know someone who's born on September 9th. I do. Mike Zwick's daughter Ann.

She's September 8th. So I don't know if you know this, the number one thing that is so simple, even a child can operate. You know what that might be? The number one thing that's so simple, even a child can operate it. Do you know what it is? What is it?

Parents. You like that, right? So the owner of a drugstore walks in to find a guy leaning heavily against the wall. And the owner asked the clerk, what's with the guy over there? Right?

Over by the wall. Have you heard this? Uh-uh. And the clerk replies, well, he came in here this morning to get something for his cough.

Yeah. And I couldn't find the cough syrup. So I gave him an entire bottle of laxative. And the owner screams, you can't treat a cough with a bottle of laxative.

The clerk responds, of course you can. Look at him. He's afraid to cough. That's a good one. That's a good one. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I am sick of people who knock on your door and tell you, you need to be saved or burned.

Those stupid firefighters. That's his Wikipedia joke right there. So anyway, you know, at the end of the actual shenanigans, we would, Grace, and get to the point where I'm actually going to ask the question here.

So here we go. With the actual Bible riddle, you know, ants don't get sick much. I don't know if you've noticed that because they have these little antibodies. They do.

Ants are like that. But so which two sons of Joseph, which two sons of Joseph were the first to visit a sick, dying man? If you know the answer to that, which two sons of Joseph were the first to visit a sick, dying man? You call us at 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87884. And if they can guess that, Grayson, tell them what they'll win. Oh, Robbie, they're going to win one of our fabulous prizes from the Truth Network folks. The prize vault is wide open and ready for you with a Zwickipedia of information. We have books.

We have shirts. We have the infamous and one and only that I'm aware of, gospel back scratcher. It comes, it includes three beads, or maybe it's four. It's got the red bean, the green bean, the white bean, you know, the whole way you can share the gospel while scratching somebody's back all at the same time. It's all there in the Truth prize vault. So you call us now at 866-34-87884. So anyway, Mike, I got to tell you this happened. So we have a wonderful newsletter here at the Truth Network that's actually put out by Morgan. And she does an awesome job of that and she sent it out yesterday.

And so I'm reading this newsletter and here's this comment from a listener. I think her name was Pat and I think she's actually in Raleigh. And so I just want to make a shout out to Pat and say this literally made me cry when I read it. She said, and I'll explain why it made me cry in a minute, maybe not why you think, but she said, I love the Christian car guy. He explained things well, and then she said, but I especially like the way he talks about his wife and how godly, how nice it is for a godly man to talk good about his wife. And I literally, like it made me cry from a standpoint of like man, number one, I'm so thankful for our listeners, but I'm so thankful that God, you know, is illustrating that that through me in any way, shape or form like man, I wish I was the kind of husband that I should be, but that I could ever, you know, make any kind of impact like that on somebody was really an honor. And so my, I'm just honored to be part of what God's doing through the radio and get to do with you.

You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. And we are here with my good friend today, Mike Zwick, of Virtual's Wikipedia, because his passion has always been, since I've known him, you know, if not for God, like, you know, his life is the story of if not for God, right? Even when you put on your seatbelt that time. Oh, man, you want to tell the seatbelt story. Yeah, so any good Christian car guy always wants to tell a good story.

Oh, yeah, man, November 1st, 2011. I'll never forget, I was selling insurance and the last place that I went to was a guy who had a ministry. He was a Pentecostal preacher and we were just talking and he said, you know, I still believe that God heals today. And he was telling me stories about where the Lord had healed.

And so he, you know, we're just talking. Something seemed different and I left the house. I was in Germantown, North Carolina. I believe it was Flat Shoals Road. Right there by the Bigfoot that walks, have you seen it? If you're ever driving through Germantown, there's a Bigfoot, seriously. Right along the side of the road. I've seen him many times.

I always try to spot him from my grandkids when I go by. There's like, look, when we come through Germantown, there will be a Bigfoot and sometimes a really big pig is right behind him. A really big pig, okay. A Bigfoot and a big pig. So next time you go to Germantown, Shoal Road, right?

Flat Shoal, I think it was Flat Shoals Road. It's been, you got to realize it's been. But anyway, you were telling a wonderful story before I broke in with the Bigfoot.

No, no, no, no, no. So I was, I finished up, the guy was talking about healing. It was my last place of the day to sell insurance. And I left the house and I was driving up the road. And as I was driving up the road, all of a sudden I was listening to Christian music. I was listening to Christian preaching.

I was like, you know what? I believe I was listening to the Truth Network. And it was Charles Stanley who was on the radio. And all of a sudden, I'm at the bottom of the hill and Charles Stanley goes off the radio. And I hear a voice in my ear and it says, you need to put your seat belt on. And I said, I almost, I started to put it on and I said, oh no, I said, and then I felt like I heard another voice in my head. And it said, what, you don't trust God?

And when I heard that, something freaked me out and I said, no, I need to put my seat belt on because the second voice I don't think was from God. And so I put my seat belt on and I drove up to the top of the hill and I was going possibly a little bit over the speed limit. And I went into one of the biggest trees that I've ever seen. And I went straight into the tree at so many miles an hour and it split the tree in half right up, no, it split my car in half. It was a, it was a 2010 or a 2011 and it was a Toyota Tercel. So it was a small, a small car, red in color. I remember the car and it didn't last very long. I had just bought the car and I didn't want it.

I wanted another car, but I got another car after that. But it split the car right in half and I remember the deputy, the sheriff, was it the state trooper or the deputy sheriff or whoever it was who came by. And I told him what happened and he said, if you didn't have your seat belt on, we'd be flying you in a helicopter over to Baptist Hospital. And yeah, I mean, I thought about the hand of God. That's why if you were standing there talking to the police officer, you didn't, you obviously weren't hurt. No, I mean, it went out without a scratch.

And so clearly if not for God, if not for God, right? Right, that's right. And how old were you at that point? I was 30. So how many kids do you have now? I've got three kids. And how many were born after that?

Three kids. Right, yeah, I'm trying to point out something. If not for God. If not for God. Right, like all that. And here's the thing, if they have children, and if they have children, and they have children, how many children would have been stopped, how many generations would have been stopped? Right, and then you think about that.

I have a, it was just an aha moment, I guess. I was studying genealogy like I used to do a lot, and I came across this story of my great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, mother. And she was in New York, and they lived in upstate New York near the border of Canada, and you might know that the Indians used to come into those towns, and they would raid in the middle of the night, and they would set the town on fire, and they would carry off all the women to sell them into slavery up in Canada.

Well, my grandmother was pregnant with my great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, right? And she was like eight months pregnant when the Indians came in that night, in the middle of the night, right? They took these women out in their bedclothes, right? They didn't want to have shoes on in the snow, right? Not having jackets or anything, and they marched them like over 100 miles in the dead of winter up there in New York. And if they slowed down just a little bit, they tomahawked them, and she was eight months pregnant.

Oh, my gosh. Right, but if that grandfather had not been born... You wouldn't be here. There'd be no Christian car guy. There would be so many, right?

My own children. There'd be no kingdom for six. If anybody could read the Bible and see how God protected all the people that led up to Jesus, right? Obviously, he protected all the people that would be in David's line and all these different things so that Jesus could come about, but I don't know if you've thought about it a lot. He protected all those people, all those moments, or there would be no you.

Because I guarantee you, there were moments in every single person's life that somebody stepped in and made it possible, right, for you to exist. And so those if not for God moments, I've always loved that title, Mike. And so tell the story of that title.

I love it. Sure, so I was... You had asked me what I wanted to name the show, and you had said, well, just name it The Michael Zwick Show, and I'm like, no. You know, I talked to somebody else about it, and they said, you know, it was my friend Chuck, and he said, who knows Michael Zwick, you know, or whatever. And not only that, I just didn't want to name it that. And then so I just wanted to... I was at the church one Sunday, and the preacher was talking about if it had not been for the Lord. And he was reading from the Psalms. It might have been Psalm 124 or Psalm 127. I don't remember which one.

But, and I think he actually misquoted the chapter, and I had to look it up. But I thought about it afterwards, and I said, that's the name of the show. And it was The Lamb's Chapel, and this was several years ago. But yeah, the Lord had given me the name of that show.

And not only that, Robbie, I mean, but there are... You know, I was thinking about it the other day. I was actually going for a walk over in Graham, North Carolina. And so when I was walking, I was looking down at my phone, and I was sort of on a side road, but somebody came flying through as a drive-thru, and all of a sudden they just blared down on their horn. And I kind of looked up, and I said, oh no. And we kind of both startled each other.

But I thought about it. I said, you know, if they weren't paying attention, I might have been road meat. But if you think about it, that's really what God has done in the life of every single Christian man or woman who was out there. You know, we were all on the road to hell.

We were all on the wrong road. I mean, as a matter of fact, you were actually in Scientology, is that right? I was, I was. There's no doubt about that, if not for God. Like, oh my goodness.

What a nightmare that would have been. But before we go there, I wanna tell that story from my perspective, okay? Okay. So you're right. I said, Michael, what do you wanna call the show? And you said, I don't know. And you said something about the Mike Zwick Show and whatever, and we talked about it. And I said, well, I really think the best thing to do is, because I interviewed the Kendrick brothers one time, and they said, you know, we like good ideas, but we love God ideas.

And so we pray, pray, pray before we take on any project. And so I said, Mike, why don't you go pray about a title and then get back to me when you think you know what God wants to call the show, right? And I'll bet it, because Mike does things quickly.

I've learned that about Mike. And I bet it was an hour and a half later, you called me and you were dead certain. It wasn't like, I don't know exactly what, but this is what I'm thinking. No, it was, Robbie, I know the name of the show. And I said, okay, what's that?

And you said, if not forgot. And I went, oh man, yeah. I mean, that resonates. Because it's so much the story of anybody's life. And so you opened up the Scientology door.

And so here we go, so L. Ron Hubbard, right? Here's what happened. I was totally depressed. My parents had left Albuquerque. I was kind of on my own and 19 years old. And I really didn't see any reason to live whatsoever. So I came up with a very creative way to kill myself. There's all my different suicide attempts in life.

This one was the most bizarre, but in each case, it was if not forgot, okay? So this particular time, the way that I decided I was gonna do it was I decided I was going to starve myself to death. Now that takes a long time. But I had plenty of time, because I was gonna spend my last days in hunger. And so I started a hunger strike of my own, unbeknownst to anybody. And I was just gonna lay in my bed. I wasn't gonna get out of bed. That was the plan. You're not getting out of bed until you die.

Jeez. That was just, it was food and water, right? And so I'm laying there, totally determined to end my life. And all of a sudden, there's this knock on the door. And it's a girl selling Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health, which by the way, is the lead-in book to Scientology. Anybody who has that book, that's big trouble right there.

But nonetheless, that's what happened. She's selling this book. And the book was two bucks back then.

So we're talking about in the early 70s, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I took the book just to get her gone, because I needed to go back to my bed and get back to dying. Yeah.

Right? And so, but as she gave me the book, she says, you'll call me tomorrow morning. That's what she said. Okay. And so I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thanks, Pa, you know, whatever. Go back to lay down, right? I'm laying there in the bed. I got nothing but this book. So I start reading it.

Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health. Well, if you're complete heathen as I was, I believe, I mean, I was like, this is amazing. This is fascinating.

This is, all my answers are right here. Like, I've been, you know, I was lost. But now I'm found. And when we come back, you're gonna find out the rest of the story. But anyway, she was right. I did call her the next morning.

And much happened after that. But we would, hey, nobody's called in about the two sons of Joseph who visited the sick guy. 866-348-7884, 866-34-TRUTH, who were the two sons of Joseph. We'll be right back.

You're listening to The Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. And today we are talking with my old friend, Mike Zwick.

And if not for God, and we were, we left our hero Robbie. He was finding out about Dianetics and Modern Science of Mental Health. And let me couch everything I say, in that I have total respect for everybody. And I think we should.

We should listen to everybody. Because obviously, I got way off track into Scientology. And if somebody's in Scientology, they're not necessarily a nut. I mean, you could say I was a nut, but if you disrespected me, you weren't gonna talk me into the kingdom. You wouldn't have talked me into Christianity. Obviously, that was gonna be something God would do over a period of time. And so everything I say about people in Scientology, they are honestly looking for answers. And I was too, because I'm laying on that bed that night.

I'm thinking that death is the answer. And here, this book brought me hope that obviously God wanted me to have. And there's no doubt it saved my life in that sort of way, that it actually provided a life as I began to get into that and that kind of thing. And that started a journey, if you wanna know, of me becoming a Dianetic auditor. And I was in Scientology for some period of time to the point that I actually went to Los Angeles and became a member of the Sea Organization, which is the organization that runs Scientology. And not only that, but then I ended up working directly for L. Ron Hubbard, who was still alive at the time. And we got our directions directly from L. Ron Hubbard.

And we began to refurbish the Cedars-Lebanon Hospital into the big center that it is today. And I will say that even though I've been out of Scientology since maybe 1979, if you go look in my mailbox, I promise you, I didn't pick up my mail last night, there will be at least five letters from the Church of Scientology. Because what they're doing is what L. Ron Hubbard told them to do, which is you continue to reach out in love to everybody that ever talked about Scientology or whatever, they know I'm the Christian car guy. They know I talk about what in the Church of Scientology is a trap, they know all that, they call me all the time.

Do you talk to them when they call you? Of course, yeah, yeah. And it's an opportunity for me to witness. And I've practiced my witnessing skills for years. And it's your opportunity, but you're not gonna argue one of them into the kingdom, but you can get their attention. And again, they've got a lot of communication skills because they were taught that stuff by Ron Hubbard, who's a pretty smart guy.

And he was being directed by some pretty powerful stuff. And so, but what you can do for anybody, and I think this works with witnessing to anybody. I know what you've got is obviously bringing you life, but let me share what this has done for me. Like, man, I actually am connected with God through his word and what it's done for my life, and what it's done, and begin to give a story of your own life like the seatbelt story. Something where you actually were a witness to what God did in your life, and you will get their attention. They'll listen to your story.

They won't listen to your argument, okay? And by respecting that other person, and realize that, man, they're in danger of something horrible if they don't see the trap that they're in. And essentially, I don't, not in an argument with one of them right now, I just tell you the trap is that essentially Scientology leads you to the belief that you're God, right? That you can become what they call an operating thetan, which is OT, and that has to do with having the ability to do God-like things, right? Because again, it pushes into your ego. You want to think you've got control.

You want to take control of your life and all that stuff, and so it's an easy sell. However, God used it, in my opinion. He totally used it, and I learned a lot through that process that I still think about today. Yet, right, if not for God, he got me in it, and to my extent, I didn't knock on the door. He got me out of it too, and then he showed me the real way, the truth and the life, and there's no looking back on that either. Yeah, you know, it says in Romans 8.28, it says that we know that all things work together for good to those who love God and for them who are called according to his purpose, because it seems to me, at least it seems this way, as if that, if they hadn't have knocked on the door and you hadn't have read that book, you might have just died, right? Right.

So. Or found a quicker, easier way to end it. Or found a quicker, easier way, or whatever it was, and you may not, whatever, but God used that to keep you from dying at that point, even if it brought you into the wrong thing, because he knew eventually he was gonna use, was it Tammy?

Right. To bring you into a church or whatever, and to bring you into the right thing. But yeah, I mean, one of the things that I'm reminded of, Robbie, is that you can do the, you can do the wrong thing, and you can be doing it the right way, and you're gonna win people to your way of thinking.

I mean, you look at the Jehovah's Witnesses, you look at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Mormons, or you look at a lot of these other different cults or religion, whatever you wanna call them, and they're really friendly. Oh yeah, that was the magic. See, they loved me well. They cared about me, they listened to me.

They seemed to be interested in what would help me, right? Right. And they thought they had the answer to all that, but all those things resonate in your soul with, okay, wow, I'm accepted in this group of people. Everybody may think they're nuts, but they love me, they treat me well and whatever, and so those things end up being a bigger trap because they're using.

Sure. Love as the, you know, essentially the bait. Right, and so what it reminds me of, Robbie, is that we as Christians, we have the truth. We have the truth.

So what it tells me is if we're sharing the truth, even if we have the truth, we're sharing the truth, but we're not doing it in love, nobody's gonna wanna listen, but if we have the truth and we're sharing it in love, that not only will people listen, but we will be able to share the gospel with people in a way that is loving and that people will wanna listen and that people will be saved. People will receive salvation, and so it's exciting for me. Yeah, me too. So we have a caller. That's exciting.

We have, and they wanna stay anonymous, so we'll just, can you punch them up for us, Grayson? So you're on with Kingdom Pursuits with, good morning. How are you? Well, I'm good, bye. Hi, I had to call. I couldn't find your radio station.

I leave it on there all the time, and I went to turn it on this morning and couldn't get it. So almost frantic, I called. And it all, as Romans 8, 20, was just, if I had to call, I don't know if I'm calling at the right time or what. I have to tell you, listening to this man, I was just telling this to a neighbor of mine last night, I don't think, I'm not a believer, about Romans 8, 28, that I've been in probably, oh man, 30, 40, I don't remember, car, motorcycle accidents, many overdoses, many, you name it and check it, and that I'm still alive is an absolute miracle. A miracle many, many times over, and for me to call, for me to hear this right now, and to find, I knew that I had to listen to, I mean, I always do, but this is definitely his spirit, definitely, so yeah, there's just no way that I should technically, you know. I'm with you, I'm right with you.

If not forgotten, right? No, definitely not, definitely not, times eight, yeah. Oh, yes, sir, yes, sir. So that's so beautiful. Yes, thank you for calling, it makes my day.

I'm so grateful for you. I couldn't get through, I wanted to message you guys, or you folks, but I wouldn't go through for some reason, but yeah, so I call. Well, thank you for the call. Anyone else, the one else, because this is for real, and I wasn't having any of this Jesus stuff growing up.

I wasn't doing it, and I wasn't raised with it. Anyway, let me let you go, thank you. Oh, thank you, God bless, and thank you for calling us, and wow, that means you could call in at 866-348-7884 with your story, or if you want to tell me about Joseph's two sons, however that one works out, 866-348-7884. So much more with Mike Zwick, if not for God, when we come back, stay tuned.

["The Truth Network Theme Song"] You're listening to The Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. ["The Truth Network Theme Song"] Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom, and clearly, Mike Zwick, our caller that we just had, which I'm so appreciative for her courage to call in and share, if not for God, right? Romans 828, it did so many different ways for so many of us. You know, it's a pretty courageous thing, but a very powerful thing to share your story.

So Mike, you got something you felt. Absolutely, you know, I kind of wanted to share with you a little bit what was happening and what the Lord was doing in my life since, and really started while I was on the radio, but even more so ever since I've been off, that, you know, and if you got your Bibles, I've got Mark chapter 16, and starting in verse 14, it says, Afterward, He, and it's talking about Jesus, appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table, and He rebuked them for their unbelief in the hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw Him after He had risen. And He said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned, and these signs will accompany those who believe. In My name they will cast out demons, they will speak in new tongues, they will pick up serpents with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them. And the last thing it says, and they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover, and so, the Lord's been working with me, and I know, Robbie, I've talked to you a lot about this, through the Ministry of Healing, and how it started, you met her, you know Cameron Horner.

Sure. But his sister, Christy Reel, she was at the revival, the tent revival that we did together, and so, maybe six months to a year ago, and I don't remember exactly when it was, but I was praising the Lord with all I had, and it was in the front of a local church called Just Like Jesus Ministries in Burlington, North Carolina, and I was praising, praising, praising, and she says, Mike, she said, when you were praising the Lord, I saw Jesus walk up to you, and he placed a gift in your chest. And I was like, wow. I was like, okay, that was cool. So I was ready to leave or whatever, and she was leaving, I was leaving, and she says, oh, one more thing, Mike.

My back has been hurting for about 10 or 15 years. She says, I'm not leaving this place until you pray for my back, until my back is completely healed. And I'm like, what? I don't have the gift of healing.

I don't, you know, any of this stuff, whatever. And she's like, come on, we're gonna pray. And I didn't know what I was doing, so I started praying, and I started praying, I started praying, and she says, it's feeling better, keep praying.

And I'm like, okay. And so we kept praying, kept praying, I kept praying, kept praying, and finally she started screaming and praising the Lord, and she said, hallelujah, my back is healed. Hallelujah, my back is healed. And I was like, awesome, that's really cool. And so shortly after that, I realized that the gift, that I believe this is what happened, that the gift that Jesus had put into my chest was the ability where it says in that verse, in Mark 16, was to lay on the hands, lay hands on the sick and they will recover. And shortly after that, I just started to pray for everybody. And all these people started getting healed. And obviously, Robbie, we can talk about this, it has nothing to do with me. I'm not the one who heals people or anything like that.

But it's a sign, I believe, that points people back to Jesus. And so eventually what had happened is there was a place in Elan, North Carolina. And I went to this place and at this point, I was praying for people and seeing them immediately healed every day. Knees, hips, back, and even bigger stuff now, I'm seeing carpal tunnel syndrome.

A lady the other day had a, she said it was terrible. Jesus immediately healed it. But I prayed for this lady and something different was about this house because the lady said, Mike, she said, when you walked up to the door, she said, the dog always barks at everybody and the dog didn't bark at you.

And so I said, do you need prayer for anything? And she said, it was her hip, or I think it was her hip, sciatic nerve. And I prayed for her and I said, tell me where the hip pain is now. And she goes, oh my God, that's weird.

It was all gone. And so I prayed for her husband who had stomach issues. And he said, it was feeling better. And the guy literally stood up, walked to the door. As he was walking to the door, he stood over and fell over like a statue and was completely dead.

The vital signs, no pulse, no nothing. And so for whatever reason, I just had this peace that was about me. And I laid my hand on the guy's chest and I said, Jesus raised this man from the dead. And as soon as I did that, Jesus raised the man from the dead, literally. The guy started breathing, started blinking his eyes and it was amazing.

You know, it was absolutely amazing. And so, and I remember asking him, I said, what did you see when this happened? He said, I just, I blacked out. He said, I don't remember anything. You know, people have these near death experiences where they go, and he said, I didn't see anything. And I asked him, I said, do you trust in Jesus as your Savior?

He said, yeah, I do. And so, yeah, that was that. But it's just, it's. Well, there's something I'm gonna dig in, you know, because I know a lot of people are listening and thinking, well, that's a little off the hook, right?

If you went from Scientology to raising people from the dead, you know, you're like, that show is a little off the hook. But think how cool it is. How many times have you been asked to pray for somebody's hip or their sciatic? And by the way, you all have that.

We have, we all have that gift, right? To pray. We have the relationship to pray. But if we don't offer, you know, what can I pray for you, then people never tell us.

And so that's a challenge, I think, for all of us to go, how can I pray for you? Because whatever that may be, you may have gifts you have no idea about unless you ask. And so my dad used to say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

You don't have, because you don't ask. And what an opportunity you had, Michael. And thank you, as always, so fun to have you. And so grateful for all of you listening. Kingdom Pursuits, by the way, it was. This is the Truth Network.