A 5 Love Languages Celebration

I know what it's like to feel like you married the wrong person.

It's not working out. But God took us through all of that. So when people say to me they have no hope, I said, but would you be willing to go on my hope because I have hope for you?

And I do have hope because I believe as long as we're human and we have our brain, people can change. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today we're going on the road to Nashville as we celebrate three decades of the love languages in action. Also the president of Moody Bible Institute, Dr. Mark Jobe. And in this segment, we have a little surprise for you.

We sure do. It's a first in Building Relationships history, and I can't wait for the festivities to begin. Our featured resource today is the book by Dr. Chapman. He wrote it a few years ago, Life Lessons in Love Languages, What I've Learned on My Unexpected Journey. You can find out more at buildingrelationships.us. And he's going to refer to that book when we get to a flyover of his ministry here in just a few minutes.

Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. Well why don't you tell us a little more about the event in Nashville? You and Dr. Chapman were together in the same venue, which is not the norm. No, usually we're here in Arizona, Dr. Chapman's in North Carolina, and then our guests are around the country wherever they are. Hopefully it sounds like we're right here in the same studio together.

That's the miracle of technology these days. Our pal Steve Wick is mixing all of this from Chicago. He's the one who makes us sound better than we deserve. But the festivities happened at the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center right down the trail from the Grand Ole Opry. It was fitting that Dr. Chapman received this recognition during the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, NRB, because he is a religious broadcaster.

And as you'll hear, he was a little reluctant at first to say yes to the idea of radio. So today we're going to take you to that event. And as I understand it, you were right next to a stream running through the middle of the hotel.

Yeah, no kidding. There were koi in there big enough to even feed our family. And I told Gary, if things got slower, nobody came. We get our fishing poles out. But you're going to hear some water splashing in the background.

Don't worry, no koi were harmed in the recording of this program. But before we get to that, we have something special for you, or I should say someone special that you have never heard from on Building Relationships. Her name is Janice Backing. She's publicity manager at Moody Publishers and producer for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. So when Andrea says we've never heard from you, that's true.

We haven't heard your voice, but your fingerprints are all over this program, Janice. And we thought it would be a good time to let you help us go behind the scenes with Gary. Do you remember first meeting Dr. Chapman?

I certainly do. It was a big occasion for me because I knew about him before I actually met him. So when I started the job, I was assigned to go and attend the Christian Book Sellers Association conference, which was huge at the time.

This would have been in 2000. And so that is where I met him. And I tried to not act silly because I was just sort of, you know, like very excited, but had a wonderful opportunity in getting to know him there and to see him in action because at that time, that is when we used to do a lot of interviews while we were there. Media were in attendance and just booksellers and buyers. So just a real great way to be introduced into the marketplace of ideas and opportunities.

So that's where I met him. So you weren't there then when the book actually hit the shelves 30 some years ago, right? Well, I was alive, but I wasn't working at Moody Publishers at the time.

So I did not work on it initially. And so again, when I started in 2000 is when I became more involved in the book and in the media. And the funny thing is, because of the history of this book, I have never not worked on it.

I think I just put two negatives in that sentence, but it's what is to help to emphasize my point in that it is an unusual situation that I work with his book all of the time, pretty much every week of every year. We're in, I'm involved in scheduling interviews for him, working at the conferences that are directly related to the book. So that's, it's just been a really great run. Well, Janice Backing is joining us here at the beginning of the program. I usually thank her at the end of the program.

So it's good to hear your voice, Janice. Well, how has the success of "The 5 Love Languages" changed Dr. Chapman? Well, I don't think that there's much to say, because it hasn't changed him. I met him, as I said in 2000, and he was so gracious and kind. And he was that way with everyone he met at in front of me at that conference. I see him today and he is the same person on stage as he is off stage. So there's not a real transition. Like he doesn't become someone else when he gets up on the stage and in front of that mic and starts teaching to 20, 30, or a thousand people. He is the exact same person. And I so admire that in him. Since you have gone to all of these conferences when you've been there, what are some things that you have observed in those events, responses from people, from couples?

What have you seen? Well, I think it starts with knowing that people want to have a successful relationship. And so in order to do that, they need a place to start. Well, that's what the conference provides, an opportunity to find out where can we meet and be on common ground so that we can make this relationship work for both of us and have a healthy marriage relationship and have a healthy family.

And so I think it starts there. Now, they're making a commitment to come for six hours to sit and learn. It's typically on a Saturday. That's pretty remarkable in and of itself when you think that they're going to give up that kind of time. So I often sort of observe people as they're coming through the doors and they're getting registered and some are pretty grumpy.

It's Saturday. They don't really want to be there, but they agreed. So okay, they're there. And they get into the auditorium where they're going to be sitting and they've got their little notebook and pen and you can see they're just sitting there just maybe tempting him to make them become engaged. And I think they're sort of thrown off by his humor, by the stories he begins to tell, which everybody relates to. That's what everybody's facing. These are the troubles.

These are where the issues begin. And then they begin to loosen up and they start listening with purpose. They start taking notes. Sometimes I see them slip their arm around each other. I think they look at each other a little bit more closely and the smiles that start appearing on their faces is just such a wonderful thing to experience because I know that they are beginning to become invested in what they're hearing and that this is reaching home for them and it's giving them a place to start to make changes in their relationship that can really turn a relationship around or make a good relationship better. Well, Janice, what is Gary's favorite part of those speaking events?

Well, it's always interesting to watch the people come back from lunch and get settled in. And again, I've just remarked about how they've started to become engaged. Well, this is a session where Gary shares his own faith journey and he tells people about how important faith has been in his own life and his relationship with his wife. And together they pray together.

They read the Bible together and go to church. And these are elements that have been important to them and key in making them understand what their role is in this relationship. And so I think when people begin to visualize and understand how faith is an important part of any relationship and they begin to grasp those concepts, I think when Gary hears that feedback from these people, it just gives him such great joy. And he knows then that he's not only impressing them with information about how to have a good relationship, Relationships 101, he's also introducing them to the whole faith concept and how it can be so powerful in their lives. You have been working with Building Relationships since the inception of this program and has been a number of years. Is their story from a conference, someone you observed or a couple you saw and Gary's ministry really made an impact on them?

Yes. You know, I have the opportunity to participate in book sales when we are at conferences. We come in and we set up an eight foot tables of books and people are delighted because they don't have bookstores anymore to go to.

And so when they see all this product, they get excited. But it also opens up an opportunity for me to engage with people and hear a little bit about their story because they're looking for a resource that might really begin to address the problems that they're facing. So a lot of times, and I'll say this particularly with women, I find that they open up and begin to share why they are there that day. Maybe they're alone because their spouse wouldn't come or they're a single woman who really wanted to be married and it's just not happened for them, but they're still willing to learn.

Or it's a gentleman who has just a broken heart because his wife has gone astray or there's just complications that he hasn't any idea how to resolve the issues. And so as I listen to those stories and I think about those resources on the table, I try to match up a resource that can really fit their need at that moment and help them begin to unravel those issues that have had them tied up in knots for so many years. Because I know that in those messages, there's hope and that they can find ways in which to begin to make changes in their own lives because that's one of the things I strongly encourage them is like start with yourself. How can you change?

How can you be the one to make a difference? And here's a book that can help you implement ideas and start making changes that will influence the other person to maybe ask the question like, hey, what's up with you? Well that's Janice Bakking, our special guest to begin the program. She produces Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman and is publicity manager for Moody Publishers.

If you've always wondered where the love language concept came from, you have to read Life Lessons and Love Languages, what I've learned on my unexpected journey. It's our featured resource today at buildingrelationships.us. Just go to buildingrelationships.us. Well in February, Dr. Chapman was honored at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Nashville, Tennessee, and part of the celebration was the presentation of the Ministry Impact Award given by Dr. Chapman's alma mater, Moody Bible Institute. Well here's the president of Moody, speaker on the program Bold Steps, Dr. Mark Jobe. It was quite a few years ago, my wife Dee and I were invited to an event. We had already read "The 5 Love Languages" . And so we were excited to meet multiple people at that event.

And I have to admit that sometimes you meet an author or a speaker or someone that's impacted your life and you kind of walk away a little bit disappointed after you've met them or they're different than what you expected. After that evening, Dee and I both walked away saying, this man is a pastor. He listened. It wasn't about himself.

He wasn't trying to promote something. He was genuinely interested in who we are. And brother, that's what I love about you and your wife. Every time we've met with you, we felt that pastoral sense about how are you doing. I'm proud of Dr. Gary Chapman for a few reasons. One is he's a graduate of the Moody Bible Institute and graduated in 1958. I'm also proud of the fact that he, even though he's been an author and a speaker and does conferences, some of you may or may not know this, but he's been very committed to the local church and served as an associate pastor up until, well, he supposedly retired like two years ago from his position as assistant pastor.

But I love the fact that he was meeting with people, counseling, leading Bible studies. He could have left that a long time ago, but he continued to serve in the local church. And I asked his wife, Carolyn, so what does retire? Are you excited about his retirement?

She said, it doesn't really mean anything. He still has an office. He's still going to meet with people. He's just not going to get a paycheck from the church. So Dr. Chapman, you are an inspiration. We would like to honor you with a Ministry Impact Award. And it's our way at the Moody Bible Institute of simply saying, you have inspired a lot of people, you have touched many lives, and we're proud to say that you are one of our alumni.

We're proud to say that you're connected not only with Moody Publishers but Moody Radio as well. So Dr. Chapman, would you come as I hand you this Ministry Impact Award? I can't really think of anybody I'd rather give this to than you, brother. And so we're praying that God will give you many more fruitful years of continuing to impact people with the kingdom of God. Bless you. Well again, that's Dr. Mark Jobe, the president of Moody Bible Institute, who presented Dr. Chapman with the Ministry Impact Award at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Nashville, Tennessee. In response to that honor, here's what Dr. Chapman had to say.

Well, the hymn that comes to my mind is, great is thy faithfulness. Yeah. You know, I've said it many, many times, I could not have made what has happened to the five love lines. I could not have made it happen if I had tried. It's definitely a God thing.

Obviously God uses people. And I want to give a word of honor and appreciation to both Moody Radio and Moody Publishing. My original book, I'd written two books before I wrote "The 5 Love Languages" . The first one I submitted to four publishers, all of whom wrote back very nicely and said, we think it's nice, but we already published a book on marriage and we don't want to do another one right now, which I found later is the way they all try to be nice saying no. And I don't know why I didn't contact Moody Publishers earlier, but I eventually contacted Moody and they not only liked it, but they published it. And then obviously I went back on my second book and they published it. And then the third book was "The 5 Love Languages" .

And I remember that Greg Thornton at the time said a little later, he said, you know, when I first read it, I thought, well, this is going to sell a few thousand copies and he's as surprised as I am. But at any rate, to see the way God has used this book has been amazing to us. I'm going to give you a copy tonight or they're going to give you a copy tonight of my memoirs, but I'm going to tell you one story out of my life because one of the points I make in that is that we will never understand everything that God does in our lives. One of those was that when I went to Moody Bible Institute, I was planning to be a pastor. So I took the pastor's course because I only knew there was two things you could do full time for God, be a pastor or be a missionary. And I thought, well, missionaries work in the jungle.

I don't like snakes, so I can't do that. So I took the pastor's course. But by the time I finished Moody Bible Institute, I really sensed God wanted me to be a missionary. So when I went to Wheaton College to get my degree, I majored in cultural anthropology, which is a wonderful background for serving in other countries.

Well, as time went on, we talked to the mission board because I was interested in teaching nationals so they could reach their country for God. And the mission board said, well, that would likely be in a college or a seminary. So you really need to be nice if you had the Ph.D. degree. Well, I don't even know that I knew what a Ph.D. degree was when they said that. But I thought, well, you know, we only got one child, so let's just go back to seminary and get the Ph.D. So we spent three years and got the Ph.D. And then we were turned down by the mission board because of my wife's health. They said, we can't send her to Africa. She just helped handle it.

So here I am. You can imagine how she felt. And she actually verbalized it. She said, you know, I just felt like I'm keeping you from going to the mission field.

Well, it breaks my heart to hear her taking that kind of responsibility. And we really had a hard time wrestling with that, you know, asking God, why don't you lead us this direction? And now the door is closed.

And so we went through all of that and had a really hard time figuring that out. But I make the next 50, 40, 50 years fast, but ended up teaching at a college here, a little college in North Carolina for three years and then going to work at the church where I do now, where I have been all these years for over 50 years now and started a college ministry. Wake Forest University is there. We started Bible studies on campus and had open house at our house for 10 years every Friday night for college students, et cetera, et cetera. Well, staying on that staff and kind of being pushed into counseling and writing the books when the books started being translated to other countries, which really, really surprised me with my anthropology background that these things would transfer to other cultures. And many, many, many of my books have done that.

Now I was in Hungary before the pandemic. They had translated 35 of my books in Hungarian and they always send us copies and we open them up and we pray for the countries and for the book. And one night I was opening up a box of books and I looked on the couch and my wife was crying and I said, what's wrong honey?

And she said, nothing's wrong. I just remember we want to be missionaries and now your books are all over the world. And I cried and I finally was able to say, okay God, I get it.

I didn't get it all these years, but I got it now. So God often surprises us by what he does in our lives. And I'm sure many of you have experienced that as well. And whatever happens in our lives, I think God wants to use it for his glory.

Even the painful things that happen, he wants to use them for us to build us and also to minister to others. So I must be honest and say I never, ever, ever had any vision of being on radio. And when they first asked me if I was open to doing a radio program, I said, I don't know. I'm a counselor. I listen to people. I don't get on the radio and talk.

I mean, I just listen to people. You know, in counseling you listen twice as much as you talk. And they said, came back and said, well, what if we, uh, what if we got you a really good cohost? And I said, well, you know, I'm like, God, I'm like, pray about it.

You know? So a little later they came back and said, how about Chris and Andrea Fabry, if they were your cohosts? I said, well, I'll definitely pray about that because I knew them. I knew of them, I should say. And I thought, I prayed and I thought, okay, God, I guess I can do this if Chris and Andrea are there.

And I'm going to be very honest with you. I wouldn't be on the radio, Moody radio, if it wasn't for Chris and Andrea. So, uh, and that relationship has been wonderful for 16 years, but also with Moody publishers, you know, I have to give a word of thanks for Janice, uh, backing who has been the publicist for all these years and it keeps me still keeps me busy doing zooms every week, uh, two or three zooms radio stations and podcasts.

I didn't know everybody in the world has a podcast, but she kind of checks them out first to make sure there's at least more than three people listening to the podcast. And, uh, but I really appreciate that. And also John Hinckley, uh, who has been leading the Chapman team there now for a while, as well as the whole, the whole Moody publishers team. So I'm deeply grateful, you know, and, and, and certainly, uh, God has used them.

We, we all have different talents and God has used them and their talents and, uh, and, and use me with the talents that I have. So I did retire officially two years ago, but as Dr. Joseph said, they let me keep my office. They let me keep my assistant. So if I'm in town, I'm there every day.

I'm still seeing people, but I am free to travel more and I am traveling more than I ever have traveled. And, uh, the gal that handles funerals in our church, she said, Dr. Chairman, do you understand that every other week somebody dies associated with our church or two people? I think she said two people. I said, really?

So I shared that with my assistant and she said, well, don't you get any ideas? And I said, well, I've already put in for 10 more years. You know, I mean, that's God's decision, but I've put in for 10 more years.

My mother lived to be 99 and I hope I have a lot of her genes, but as long as I have energy, I'm going to keep walking. I'm going to keep doing what God's put on my heart. Keep trying to help people. So thank you. When you think about me, I say this, all the seminars I do on Saturdays, I say, when you think about me, you don't have to, but if you do pray for me, that God will keep my heart and God will give me wisdom on how to continue to use the energy and the life that he's given me.

Okay. God bless you. Thank you. Well, that's Dr. Gary Chapman receiving a ministry impact award at the national religious broadcasters convention in Nashville. You heard him reference his mother during that acceptance and part of her story is included in the memoir. Dr. Chapman wrote titled life lessons and love languages. What I've learned on my unexpected journey. You can find out more at buildingrelationships.us.

Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. Now the celebration continued in that gorgeous venue at the Gaylord Opryland convention center. Gary took a seat and they handed me a microphone, which is a dangerous thing, and they said, ask anything you want.

So that's what I did. And my first question was to have him talk about his father and the prayers that Gary heard his dad pray when Gary was a child. Well, my dad, uh, became a Christian after he married my mother.

I asked mother that one time, why did you marry him? He wasn't a Christian. She said, well, you know, I don't know, but she said, God took care of it because two years later he became a Christian. And when he did, he was a Christian.

He was all the way in. He worked on the third shift in a textile mill, which means he went to work in the afternoon and worked till 11 o'clock at night. And then he slept during the day while we were in school. But every morning I remember when he was, I was getting ready to go to school, he'd come home and he would kneel by the bed and pray. And he always prayed out loud and just walking through the room and hearing my daddy call my name in prayer.

Never forgot that. And I had a tremendous impact on my life. We had a caller ask, it was just the last recording that we did, dear Gary, where people call in each month. And her question was, my husband and I went to a seminar and you said that couples who pray together, you know, we're going to try this prayer thing together. And he thought that we were supposed to hold hands and both of us pray out loud. And I think we were supposed to pray silently. So you answered that question and then followed up with a story about a question about prayer that you had at one of those sessions. Somebody came up to you and said, I'm not a Christian.

What do I do? Who tells that? Yeah. One of the things I do at the end of my, not at the end, but in one of the sessions of my marriage conference is I say, I want to challenge you to pray together every day. And my research has shown that not a high percentage of Christian couples actually pray together.

If you don't count, thank you for the food. Amen. So I said, I'm just going to teach you an easy way to pray together. You hold hands, you close your eyes, you pray silently. And when you get through, you say, amen, you hang on till they say, amen.

And so then I take them through the logistics right there in the, in the conference. So this lady came up to me and she said, I don't think I can do that holding hands and praying thing. And I said, really? And she said, yeah.

She said, I'm a witch and I don't believe in God. And I shut up a prayer myself and said, God, give me wisdom. And I said, well, how about this? What if you hold his hand while he prays as a way of respecting his belief in God, you know, you, you don't believe, but he does. So this will be a way of respecting him.

I think I could do that. Never had anybody asked that before or since. See, this is the thing. I will get the phone calls and funnel them through, choose eight or nine calls that will go on the program. So I will listen through, you know, the first listing of them. And then the second time it's like, okay.

And then Steve gets them and we edit them down. So I've listened to him probably four or five times by the time he gets to hear them when we record. And almost every time he will pick out something from that call that I hadn't even heard the person say, I think, I think he said this or I think she said this. And I, I don't wonder where that comes from, where the ability to not just hear something, but to listen well so that you're responding to the real issue underneath.

I think it's a gift of God, but it's also, it's also practicing counseling for yay many years. And at the very heart of counseling is hearing people, not only what they're saying, but what they're feeling and what's behind those feelings. So when I hear it on the recorded program, it's like I'm hearing a real person because they are a real person and I'm doing what I've done my whole life is trying to empathize with where they are and sense what might be behind, you know, what they're thinking and what they're feeling. Do you listen to your own program? Because Gary said to us, it's usually just Steve and me listening to him. And if we have a guest, but after the program, he said, you know, I heard that program.

You sent me their copy of that program. That was really good. So you don't sit there and listen to every program that you do, right? I do not. I don't have time to listen, but when I have listened, I do have the sense.

That was good. I'm sometimes surprised at the answers I give on the Dear Gary program. And it is, it's like this, the times when I'll say, I will follow up sometimes and ask a question and you'll say, well, you know, Chris, and it's those words, however many of those words are, they give you enough time to figure out where you want to go, right? Yeah, I'm always glad when Chris jumps in. In fact, there have been times, you know, we're recording it so I can just stop and say, Chris, I think you need to jump in here.

You're hearing right here why I would not be on radio if it wasn't for Chris. And I could also mention Steve Wick. He's not here, but Steve's our producer in Chicago.

And I used to work with his father who worked with Moody Publishers years ago. But Steve does a wonderful job. And to me, it's great when you're recording because you know he can fix anything that you mess up on.

That's good. Well, here's the other thing, Gary, because you say you're not that technologically savvy, but I get texts from you and I get different things and the other day there was a problem with the system. We couldn't get a hold of Gary's system and he got into the little house where you do this from. And you knew enough to turn everything off and turn it back on, right? Well, Steve told me that. I can unplug a plug and put it back in. And I can text and do emails.

That's about the limit of my technology. So your dad worked in a mill in North Carolina. You're from a mill town in North Carolina. Tell me the moment that you've had in your life where you thought, I'm from a mill town in North Carolina and I'm doing this. What was that moment? Well, my whole life has been that moment.

I left home when I was 17 years old. I finished high school at 17 and went to Moody Bible Institute and those three years absolutely opened up a whole new world to me. I've often said that's the first time I realized there were Christians who weren't Baptist because I grew up in a Baptist church and I got to Moody and I found out they had labels I'd never heard of, but we all agreed on the central issues, Jesus Christ, you know, God's gift to the world. So Moody was a wonderful experience for me.

In fact, you just look back and thank God. I never heard of Moody Bible Institute till I was in high school. And at that point in our school, they taught Old Testament survey and New Testament survey as an elective class in high public high school. And that Bible teacher mentioned Moody Bible Institute. And one of my friends wrote and got a catalog.

This was before computers. You had to write and get catalog. And one day in study hall, I read the catalog and I thought, man, this is where I need to go.

So I went to my pastor and I said, you know, I'm thinking about this and what do you think? What do you know about Moody Bible Institute? He said, well, I know it was the guy whose name DL Moody and he started it.

And I think it's in Chicago. That's all he knew. But I knew, I really sense that. But you know, when you look back, you realize how God led you step by step by step by step, you know, and all of it ties together. Yeah.

I'm just grateful for the hand of God throughout my life. We were talking with Gary Smalley on the program a few years ago, obviously before he passed away. And he mentioned how many times people will come up to him and think he was you. Remember that? Yeah.

Yeah. I said to him, I said, you know, Gary, I speak and sometimes people bring up books for me to sign, but it's your book. And I said, I used to tell them, well, I'm not Gary Smalley. I'm Gary Chapman.

And they would be embarrassed. I said, I don't do that anymore. I just signed your name. And that's when he said, you haven't signed nearly as many as I have signed or "The 5 Love Languages" . That's nearly, he was a great guy. Gary Smalley. Has anyone ever given you advice on, Hey, you need to do this in order to get a bestseller, or you need to do this to be on radio, or you need to, you got to have your video series or you got to do that, that you either listen to or didn't?

The short answer is no. I don't ever remember anybody telling me do this or do that. Be honest with you. And if they had, what were you, if they had, I would have listened. I would have listened because I always try to be open, you know, even if it's critical because I mean, Bible's pretty clear.

You're very foolish if you don't listen to criticism because you know, they can, they can be of help for you. So I've always tried to be open to that. And now in the church, you know, I have, yeah, I've had people tell me in the church, you know, used to have a retired pastor every time I'd preach. And I served as interim pastor once for two years and once for 15 months in our church between pastors. But I had this former pastor every time I preach, he'd come up and say, you know, Dr. Chapman, it would, this would have been a good verse for you to use in that sermon or it's been a good illustration. I'd always thank him. Thank him. You know, yeah, I appreciate that.

Yeah. I think we need to keep open, always keep open to whether people are giving you affirmation or whether they're giving you a suggestion. We need to always have open ears. You mentioned the different denominations and how you grew up Baptist. You are accepted everywhere, even in the general culture. So how did that happen?

How did you get to be able to move and breathe in so many different areas? Well, you know, I think Moody has a big part to do with that because, you know, Moody, I mean, there's all kinds of denominations with Moody and Moody publishers and Moody radio has access to people of all denominations. So I think just because the books that I publish with Moody and the radio, the information on those books goes out to a broad audience. So I think that's, that's why I, you know, we get into all kinds of churches. I'm open, you know, I've, I've even given my conference in two Catholic churches.

I was very surprised one time. I always share the gospel in my, in my marriage conference on Saturday, share the gospel clearly, give people a chance to receive Christ, give me their name and address so I can mail them, you know, something. And I remember I shared the gospel with this at a Catholic church. And when I walked off stage, the priest was in a side, little side room listening to the whole thing. And I walked in and he said, thank you for sharing the gospel so clearly. And I was kind of shocked. I said, well, thank you for sharing that because I don't care what our background is.

We all need Jesus. So you are coming back from a conference that you did. You landed in Charlotte. It was Sunday morning and you were driving to your church and you got pulled over by the police.

Tell us the story. I took the red eye and flew all the way back and it was Sunday morning. I was headed home from the airport.

The airport's 30 minutes from my church. And so I was trying to get home for the 10 30 service. The siren went off and I pulled over and he said, do you have any idea how fast you were going? I said, no, sir, to be honest with you, I don't. I said, I tell you what, I flew all night. I said, I'm a pastor at Calvary Baptist church on the staff there. And I said, I flew back all night from California and I was just trying to get home for my service this morning and be there. And I said, I wasn't even paying any attention to how fast I was going. He said, well, you were going 72 and a 55 miles on.

I said, well, I don't have any argument about that. He said, but what is your name? And I told him my name and he said, doc Chapman, would you pray for me? He said, it's hard out here.

It's hard out here. I said, man, I'd be happy to pray for you. And I put my hand on his arm and I prayed for him right there. And after the prayer, he said, be careful when you drive along here next time. I said, I appreciate that. And I'm always careful now. I drive along there now. I don't go over 60.

It's 55 and I don't ever go over 60. Have you ever, cause so many people call and their marriage is on the brink and they're in tears and they want help and they want to talk with you. And they think that you are the magic, you know, the person who can help them. Have you ever found a marriage that was too far gone, that there was no hope that you had for the couple? I often have couples in my office who come without hope. Some of them have gone for counseling already and they've done other things and they just say, you know, we, we just, we just don't have any hope.

And they describe their situation and I can identify with it. I mean, I think because of what my wife and I went through in the early years of our marriage, because we had lots of problems in the early years of our marriage. I know what it's like to feel like you married the wrong person.

It's not working out. And I remember when I had feelings of this is just, it's just not, I don't know what to do, you know, and but God took us through all of that. So I have deep empathy. So when people say to me, they have no hope after I've heard their story, I said, well, I can see why you would have no hope. I said, but to go on my hope, I'll meet with you and we'll see what can happen. And almost always they're willing, they're willing at that point to say, well, we'll try.

And I do have hope because I believe as long as we're human and we have our brain, people can change. I worked with a couple like that through about nine months and they, they went out, you know, holding hands and 35 years later I found out he's in hospice. So I'll go over to pray with him. And when I walk in, he said, Dr. Tim, I'm so glad you came. He said, we're sitting here planning my funeral and you can help us.

So I took out my pen and I took notes on, you know, what they were saying and all of that. And then when I got ready to leave, I stood up and I said, well, let me pray with you. And I stood on one side of the bed and his wife stood on the other side and I took his hand and she took his hand and I prayed for him and for her. And when I got through, I released his hand, but she held onto his hand and he pulled her hand to his mouth and he kissed her hand. And when he did, I started crying because I remembered 35 years ago when they said they had no hope. That's the reward of the counseling ministry.

Yes, there are couples. Not every couple has found healing, you know, not every couple has, but I have hope as long as they're willing to work on it. And I think what you just heard is why listeners respond so readily to him. There's just, there's something about you that makes me feel at ease when I hear your voice. And I think that's what it feels like for the listener too, to kind of draw up to a place where they feel like, Hey, here's somebody who has some miles, you know, he's been down the road a while and he, if he has hope for all of these people, then I can have hope as well.

So thank you for doing that. Dr. Chapman. I never ever dreamed of doing counseling when I was earlier and earlier in my life. But when I got into church and started teaching a class on marriage periodically, people were hurting and they'd come for help. I got pushed into counseling when I went to seminary, they didn't even offer a master's in counseling.

They had three or four courses. I took those courses because I figured, you know, pastor needs to know a little bit about counseling, but I never ever intended to get into counseling. And the thought of writing books never crossed my mind.

And I never ever thought about being on radio. That's why the subtitle to my, to my memoirs is what I learned on my unexpected journey. Let me say one more thing about you. I read Proverbs today. Proverbs 22 one says, a good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, loving favor rather than silver or gold. And the end verse, the very last verse, Proverbs 22 29 says, do you see a man who excels in his work? He will stand before kings.

He will not stand before unknown men. And you have stood before the known and the unknown, Gary, and we are better for it. And we thank you for being who you are. Thank you. Well, what a great way to end today's celebration of the ministry of Dr. Gary Chapman and the book you've heard about "The 5 Love Languages" . Go to Building Relationships.us and you can find out more about that as well as the memoir life lessons and love languages. What I've learned on my unexpected journey and join us next week for an encouraging program for women who want to say no to the lies of the culture and a big thank you to Janice backing Steve wick and Chris Seagard for their production work on the program. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of moody radio in association with moody publishers, a ministry of moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.