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September 4, 2021 12:00 pm
Almost a year on from the release of their book, "Welded: Forming Racial Bonds That Last," Pastor Derrick Hawkins and Pastor Jay Stewart of The Refuge Church return to talk with Nikita about the book's success, the working of the Holy Spirit, and their new Welded small group curriculum.
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Once a world champion wrestler, now a champion for Christ. Once the Russian nightmare. Now the devil's worst night in your tagteam partner cheetah call. It's time. Welcome back the cuticle of the devil's nightmares started up for the kingdom of God stirred up the kingdom of hell when I'm this excited today to have 202) in the office in the studio today their caucus J. Stewart, pastors of the refuge church Greensboro campus Kannapolis Was guys, welcome to the student.
It's great to be back. Thanks for having us backward excited to be here with you. Yeah, we'll talk about you guys today.
I said last that we had you on the show we were talking about a brand-new book that that you guys brought out welded forming racial bonds that last and for those who maybe miss that she'll go back and listen to that would go back to the podcast a story of two pastors and two churches come together in the middle of some of the nations greatest racial tensions and painting a picture of true biblical community while that's that's pretty cool. There is absolutely key to thanking everyone for having us on the cell was always merely on the other select one question hobbies they looking so young man is I good clean living and quickly live man absolutely member. Thank you and we had the privilege of sharing a bewildered throughout the world and the Lord is literally favored us to be on podcast with people all over the world and charisma magazine Christian Post them and we've had the privilege to tell the story about this, the story of us coming to get a meeting together merge and outsource us together in the book is doing phenomenal throughout the world and for those who maybe don't know Jay slightly longer than Derek but Derek I love your heart is love being around you and set in recently on a message Sunday morning service with you. You let Dustin to send that the fire, the fires were flaming in the Holy Spirit was in that place the anointing on your life and and the really the anointing on that message was powerful man thank you so much may actually have a great father mentor teacher leader and think I professes a steward we talk about life and people like that.
See UNC form so many people will take advantage of what becomes.
But in emphysema.
What wasn't with the Lord allowed him to come and nurture me pointing me in a lot of what you see today is because he believed, just a quick question on that in regards to that concert. This probably a lot of listeners out there a lot of people out there who who don't have a mentor. They don't have somebody discipling them know which that we know the importance of a brand-new believer. Having that kind of that counselor leading, but even for those I've met many who been followers of Christ for years and still have never had that so that's been important to you to have someone like J mentoring discipling absolutely nothing path is the best bill but we have many mentors. We have few father so is much more to mentorship for me, the spiritual father and so which speaks into your DNA and identity as the son brought me to associate what it means to learn the kingdom learn about ministry he allow me to come inside of his church to be around business. He taught me a lot of things about preaching style and delivery clarity in prayer and integrity is a lot of this is that I make now because of what he told me they didn't just teach me what words he taught me what actions is a difference. Wow so pay attention to that. He didn't just teach me with words.he modeled my display that forgot to many times actions speak way louder with words running and speaking to God in your ear here slightly younger than me/mid 30s. Thursday is so so Jamie bounced over to you.
You heard what Derek to sadden you know, mentoring him for those who don't know you and I go back further. In fact, 28+ years, a 19 item 3 of essentially I tell people you you're my pastor and have been in Kenya to be for all these years later. So speaking of mentoring Derek and and discipling. I've gleaned so much from you over the years. Reference well I can say the same. Nikita iron sharpens iron. One man sharpens another.
My life has been so sharpened by our relationship, our friendship times that we connect we connect on a regular basis every month were together and I'm a better man because of you and so admire how you allow God to work through you and you know you wrestle people for years I've wants to wrestle the devil form for much longer and and come out victorious every time so proud of you and thankful to be with you again today. I appreciated it and it's been a you know if you're listening out there minutes. It's been it's not been smooth sailing for the cuticle off of you know post my wrestling career and in and in my journey walk with the Lord.
I mean, there's been ups and downs and I like the ups and downs in highs and lows and twists and turns. It's been a roller coaster of a ride right but you you been there. I sent CJ with me all along the way.
My lowest moments and even in my my highest celebrations. I really value their awesome God and I don't you speak of discipleship over the years. You you've had groups that you've discipled Chris one on one like with Derek and me.
So discipleship is important to you as well. Very much so. And I think even in the times that were in town, post covert if we can say that I believe the churches that are going to survive and thrive are those who really focus on discipleship because I believe one of the weaknesses of the, the American churches that we've not produced disciple making disciples. And I think that that's a huge void in the American church but I think it has to be a focus it's the mandate of Jesus go make disciples a commission.
The great commission and I think part of our heart with the book with welded is that we would see disciples made unity was a big deal to Jesus. We talk about that the last time we were here with you is a huge priority to God and I think through the book. There's a lot of disciple making principles that are found in the book welded and were hearing stories already of how God is using it to really disturb people's hearts as it relates to racial reconciliation unity big deal to the Lord as a prerequisite for revival.
I believe if we can see the outpouring of the Spirit of God All-American on the American church.
We gotta get this right like I can't just treated as we can shove it to the back burner. Sweep it under the carpet.
We met on the knots gotta be a big deal to us as well and were just blessed and grateful for how God using us of the book release November 17 of 2020 okay ride in the Heights of so much division. All that was going on with the election encoded in the racial divisions and right, and a host of other things. But man Nikita God used it in so many ways. We just heard from our publisher just couple months ago that of all the books they've published welded is the only book I've ever had that has unanimous five star ratings on Amazon. I said that's unheard of. They've never had about do that before so people are responding really well to it, and God USENET. It's also in many prisons. Thousands of copies in all the prisons in Tennessee all the prisons in South Carolina and 50 of the largest prisons in the state of Florida. While we know there's a lot of racial division in the prisons we just believe revivals going to come to the prisons through three. Well, maybe a break out there of both before breaks out anywhere ever just let it, you're not a big prison speaker guy and I got an early lead, meet in the vice a prison ministry right now I've spoken in prisons and that one of my wrestling peers, Tully Blanchard years God really called him to the prisons.
To date, I believe he has spoken over 2000 prisons over the course of his walk with the Lord but yet when I'm in prisons ironically think a lot of seem to be wrestling fans are there, there, Rasul and Van Zandt and so I do garner their attention from that. But speaking of that user you have this impact not only outside of the prison walls. But here you're impacting the prisons and I know you Derek shirt surest or maybe a story whether it's a prisoner or someone else that maybe has been impacted by by welded and was actually a two stories and one of them was a letter that we received from a prisoner inside of one of the Florida prisons talking about the impact that the boot loaded head of his life okay so you know sometimes you see the fruit of that was sending books out you don't know the impact of the reach that the book is going to have and sometimes you see in those stories and recently we even had an older lady from Florida who was going to summer reading program with students. This essay we read the book everybody in the world needs to read the book, will it not only that, she went to get permission to make it a part of her summer reading program so that the sum of the effects of wilted and what the Lord is doing with the book throughout the nation but also in the hearts of individuals all over who just need inspiration and encouragement we need hope. We also need direction only things that that's it. They said earlier about it is that we wanted to make sure that the information nuggets that we can bring out of this book would be discipleship conversations to lead people and discussing conversation about race can be difficult to talk about, especially what we have going on in the nation today.
There's so much controversy. Everything you say is like stepping on a limb so so what are we doing one of the things about what it is, it opens the doors that have the tough conversations with love and truth, and I thank God for what the load is allowed us to do and write in the book will limit last summer's bubbly my spirits out. So jealous is what was it like I was, how was your your church in Greensboro, Greensboro campus. How did they receive initially when when you said they were bland our church with a predominately all-white check to Lida's got a bag of white buyers right up with a receptive lesson they know and so best is always good to be naysayers in the mud with you.
Yes, the Lord and what he led us to do overall response from our campus was positive that maybe a few people that asked the question and hate whirly you guys know what you think about that when a lady particularly say make it we not merge with the black church and was it about that. I never look the past. Today it is the white pastor and the Lord actually gave me a vision in college that I will meet this middle aged white guy. Come on man in college and I wanted out of my prayer journal when I first met us today. I told him so is like a fulfillment of a prophecy that the leg given me know about future destiny is not trusted the Lord in every step of every decision I've always been a my life is always been limited to the voice of the Lord is so when I met Pastor Jay wasn't about race and I think we are semi-citizen of the day when we die. What colors our souls like and I think a lot of us are focused on skin, but not those we have an opportunity to minister to the gospel to people who are lost and maybe they look into the bias of race as a hindrance. But there's a so this at stake, and we just want to bring truth and awareness to difficult conversations they had happened in our country and we need Jesus masculine and I tailored to address and is what you just said.
I was reminded of Samuel given the task to anoint the next king of Israel, and he looks at you yeah yeah the first one of Jesse's sons and he was all Shirley you know you like to settle for and add a guises man looks at the outward appearance, so really what you're what you're saying is what is black skin brown skin yellow skin Redskin white skin. Unfortunately, innocent man's man has a tendency to look at the outward appearance in this case the color of us. 20 skin and already make their own judgment or or whatever else right and so man so glad to hear you say that Jay let me ask you give us a quick little back story.
We got some exciting news. Why want to bring you back in the studio got some exciting news to share with all our listeners go back to stroke what, how you got connect with Derek and how all that really happened. Yes, it started in 2014 and it was right after we had moved into a brand-new building that we had constructed in walked out into our lobby. Our mouth every Sunday was just meeting people and pastor Derek approached me, never met him before and he just said I'd like to meet with you sometime in and just talk about, you know, mentoring, coaching, whatever left my heart. I have an apostolic anointing of my life. I love to point out the pastors I've coached many church planters. So as it was an easy yes for me I did not know nor expect that the immediate spirit to spirit connection that I would have with him about the first time we met. It was obvious to me that the Holy Spirit was unfolding a much bigger picture than what I realized in a moment I just saw him to meet with another pastor Millipore into him helping him is about to take over church in Greensboro.
I'm just going to coach them along the way and there was much more that God intended to do and I didn't know what all it entailed in the moment. I didn't know I was going to be the merging of churches. I didn't know what was going to come out of none of that. I just knew there something much bigger that God's up to. And then we forge this relationship.
This beautiful relationship that God brought together and then it just evolved in a more more things, the story, the merging our church is the book all that comes down which is which is just amazing really for me and adolescent outside observer, but is a five step back and look from the outside enemy and you guys are just a picture of what the book exemplified your racial reconciliation.
So is worth a model of that better at others, other churches or individuals or groups are or whoever imprisoned right.
We know there's a lot of as you present you know so inside and outside in the free world is there's lots of division drain tile from the top right number one thing this is Nicole and I want to thank lemons for supporting my new show man on Saturday afternoon. 1230 on the truth that were not the Russian nightmare here for crescent automotive buying a car is a nightmare for you my friend writing Jimmy Johnson at Crescent automotive make it simple to find your preowned dream car, no hassle. The windshield place where You Can Dr., Crescent.com is always right there.)
Everybody Should Dr., Crescent lustrous issue is that that brings us to really something new that's transpired now so so from the merging of the church and and and the co-authoring the book in getting both of your perspectives on this now. Jake tell us what's going on now with the book what's happening now yes is very exciting because our brand-new small group curriculum for welded has released through right now media right now media is the largest digital content provider for religious material in the entire world. And right now media heard about this. They wanted to carry it. So it's available there through right now media but as a six session 6 lesson small group curriculum so there's six DVDs six PDFs and really what it is. It's a deeper dive into racial unity racial reconciliation in God just allowed us to create this this tool to get people talking okay to help them to have conversations, you know, which takes a lot of courage.
A lot of people don't how to do that small group curriculum for welded is going to help them to know how I talk about this and we just taken people into a deeper study of the some of the principles that we talk about in the book Derek give us maybe an example or or two. So the church decides they want to get this curriculum more.
I guess I'm in a men's Bible study of women's Bible study right really anyone and everyone obvious is to benefit from the but certainly churches solicit church or or or group decides they want to get this curriculum and implement this. So what's a couple examples of things that they can glean solicit nothing. Again I go… To get the book right and then use it alongside with the curriculum of the success in curriculum. So the book in the curriculum go together this coming hand-in-hand, and it is your reading through the book you want to spark conversations. We also have a devotional that's all you version that you can actually recently are you doing the six sessions and reading the book. You can also go to you version download the Bible reading plan to go along with it. Our job is just a spark conversation. We know that, typically, right now some land moment. Any conversation that you have concerning race racial reconciliation and unity so these conversations are six different sessions to talk about you know things that are going on within the book parts of the book that we brought out to spark conversation and relationship site. This is a starting point course we can't bring a create unity. We know the Holy Spirit is the only one I can do that.
But what we can do is is be a door opener for a greater broader conversation about unity. What does that look like the passage and I both go to sessions we talk about it. We engage with it.
We also lead in prayer. This group discussion conversations is very well written him till he is going to be powerful is something I've been up and really going about when Jesus was talking to the disciples. The only question that I sing them as they seen Jesus write blogs miracles perform on his great acts but the one thing that they exited do is teach us how to pray and when I last About what we always talk about prayer revival and in this we believe that prayer is a crucible for revival and as were talking about this in the sessions.
We want to have filled the conversation around conversation that might be sensitive might be like man I know we could talk about that but in list have moments of prayer to figure out okay little what you want to do an output of your spirit in this small group that we hope that leads to change based upon a group being discipled together and answering the tough questions so that I go, so there's the book so you read the book day the DVD and the TV so the DVD is really kind of it to you in teaching load. Yes, I think she's devious maybe 8 to 10 minutes and so a group and it could be up to be a corporate group you know some I could do it in the workplace get young people talking men and women like you talk about the watch the DVD 8 to 10 minutes and then we've written thoughts and questions for them to walk through together and some of them are very pointed questions where they're going to sit down again respond to those questions, and it's going to really open up conversations that they might not own their own have a somebody restaurant the conversation from prompt that conversation really know what the right question right were given on the questions okay were giving them the thoughts and saying what you think about this. We brought this point out in the book. What are your thoughts about that. So they're going to talk about things that maybe you don't even know how to engage in that conversation okay this is a tool that can help them do that book the DVDs and then the questions that go along with a small group study and I know just what you already shared based on the feedback itself from blog. I'm excited to hear what kind of results.
What kind of feedback you get from the curriculum itself weakly onto Nikita. It's just a great time this issue although people are focusing on different things that are going on around the world. This issue is still there. It's not resolved. Rest still a major deal in American around the world so we encourage people get the books in order the book from Amazon for your small group get the small group curriculum through right now. Media and go there just go to a place is going to require some courage but what we believe is going to happen is the Holy Spirit going to come into the midst of those conversations and is going to bring unities going to bring healing and he's going to bring revival that's what were. Because for some space. Having policy detail what part of the world or what part of the evening that the nation that you will part of the country you live in right depending on on an individual's upbringing. Part of the harp overlay and compare what they were told about another racer. I envision breaking down some of those lies yeah that they were told was air growing and then this curriculum your blog is is bringing truth is it out of there quickly or it is a truth that truth. And I love that truth.
So I think were living in a time where truth is been eroded by culture and so a little something to pass today talks about is us creating a better narrative so controlling that narrative is saying this is this a crazy method that white people can cook through think I can. The best way I have go to pessimism.
Glenda passes with his wife can kill me can throw yeah yeah SSO that submit real funny things, but also deep things that that people might from that that every African-American is a three is not the case.
Right now, so those are some things you know it and want to face a hockey submit to a Leica submitted to the God of passage in a submissive and honor all of this that is rooted in in people's minds sit it feels like control what would you allow yourself to be controlled but not submitted to the Lord ship that he submitted to so these are the conversation that you have to break down those barriers have a whole chapter talking about the areas we have hope that you know so these are the chapters in this book that we want to talk about. To encourage the let you know you gotta get through those tough conversations typically Starbucks. We do eating at dinner tables you have any conversations I've had with people inside of the refuge I get is invited to a small group that was doing just before the curriculum was even released and I was able to come in and just talk to a small group about this book from our perspective, and it broke down so many different areas of data they did know that they could say that's good break breaking off the myth that the hardware to say hi to Jay. Just got in our last minute here so she mentioned Amazon which by the way, congratulations five-star rating it thinks only book to ever receive that so so Amazon they can get the book right now media that just means that something they they just Google that up and look for right now media what yeah through the refuge or and and how people find out more about the Greensboro campus and in the Kannapolis campus of SLS starter go to the refuge.net and then link it to all of our campuses will also link you to the book, or you can go to welded book.com go to Amazon you can find just type in the search welded.
It'll pop up and in right now media just search right now media okay and will take you to their website. That's how you can. That's how you can get the small group corrected by the creek that you get it get books from Amazon get the small group curriculum from right now media okay and here's what we always tell people not to copies and give one to somebody who looks different than you. That's goodbye to copies, give one to somebody looks different than you well. Great to have you guys in the studio once again on my guys are such a blessing and I just know God's hand is on this as he's been on the book is going to be on this curriculum and you guys can have some amazing stories coming back to go out there. Order the block order the curriculum bar right now media or the curriculum. Spread the word. Get the word out there and and let's let's bring the racial reconciliation.
Let's blend, blend these lives together in an impact the world around us. We thank you for tuning in today to the man up show and will look forward to catching you again soon. God bless you men I would like to challenge each of you to consider spending five days with Lex Lugar and I am pursuing the heart of ladies listening will send your manhole with God godly husband and God you give them your blessing them. Sign up today at band camp.full pastors you would like to bring Holland for Christ ministries and man up conference to your community. Go to cloth.org and email member this, it's time to man up. We so appreciate our listeners if you will support this program with a financial gift of any amount. I will send you a slice copy of my latest book Kita tail of the ring go to call off.that's cool off.and the ET Holland.net and make your contribution the cuticle all fear if you're needing to buy a car and have marginal credit and considering using buy here pay here that's worse than taking the Russian sickle Winston-Salem motorcars will put you behind the wheel of a car you can rely on while helping rebuild, repair or establish your credit score conveniently located on Silas Creek Pkwy. in Winston-Salem. Be sure to check them out today at W.
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