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Lower your taxable income while increasing your retirement. PRCUA.org. That's PRCUA.org. Welcome to If Not For God. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. If Not For God is on location and it is exciting. We're in a loud, really cool restaurant that plays Christian music. It's about to come on. It's called Dario and our ever famous, ever-vigilant host, Michael Zwick is right here. Michael, say hello to everyone and set up the stage for what's coming is one of the most exciting times of year and Isaiah 53, the gospel of the Old Testament.
That's it. And it's, we've got Isaiah 53, who has believed our report and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness. And when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from him.
He was despised and we did not esteem him. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. Yet we esteemed him, stricken, smitten by God and afflicted, but he was wounded for our transgressions.
He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement for our peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray.
We have turned everyone to his own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.
So he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment. And who will declare him his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living. For the transgressions of my people he was stricken, and they made his grave with the wicked. But with the rich at his death, because he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth, yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him, he has put him to grief. When you make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see the labor of his soul and be satisfied. By his knowledge my righteous servant shall justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul unto death.
And he was numbered with the transgressors, and he bore the sin of many and made transgression for the transgressors. And Stu, you actually wrote a book called The Last Words of Jesus. Is that right? Yeah, that's it.
That's right. And we referenced this particular passage a whole lot in that book. Isaiah 53, a powerful book, a powerful prophecy written centuries before any of this stuff happened. But you see the graphic fulfillment of this in Holy Week, you see the graphic fulfillment of this in what Christ did on the cross at Calvary, which really we celebrate.
You know, a lot of times we ask the question, what's so good about Good Friday? And it's kind of neat, I have a pastor with me who's taught on this passage many times, and he's sung this passage. He's also a singer and pastor of a wonderful church in kind of the Kernersville area of North Carolina, not too far from here. Pastor Jay Boyce, Oak Lawn Church. Pastor Jay, you hear Mike, it's moving.
We're in a group of guys here in this Dario. It's kind of awesome. We just finished Wednesday in the Word, and you hear Michael Zwick, the host of If Not For God, reading Isaiah 53. What resonates in your spirit?
Oh, just the whole, you know, number one, the miracle of this prophecy in some 700 or so years. And then the agony that the Savior went through, I had this conversation yesterday with our staff, is that we try to find a balance of celebrating the cross, but also lamenting the fact that Jesus had to go there for my wickedness, for the iniquity of us all, the Word says. And so, you know, we're going to try to put together a Good Friday service, and we're going to wrap it around Communion. And so we want to figure out how, yes, we definitely look back at the cross and say, hallelujah for the cross and for what Jesus did for us, but also, and he bore our sorrows.
He endured intense pain and suffering. So how do we also come to a place of repentance and intense gratitude for that? And so it's the first time we've ever done a Good Friday service, but we want to focus on the cross and leading up to, of course, the glorious resurrection. If going to church on Sunday wasn't enough, now we've got to go to church on Friday. What are you talking about here? I'm just kidding. But praise the Lord. Thank you for doing that. What a blessing.
Michael's wick. What a passage. It's a very interesting time of year. It's really a time of year, very much like Christmas, where an entire nation, an entire world, be it whatever religion or whatever secularism they've bought into, they're talking about Jesus. They're saying things like Happy Easter. Of course, I prefer to say Happy Resurrection, because that raises a lot of questions maybe that people aren't asking, but it's an interesting time. But it's a definite if not for God moment in history.
It is. And, you know, we sing the song, Jesus paid it all. All to him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain.
He washed it white as snow. And one of the things that I think about is that when we talk about the price that Jesus Christ paid for us on the cross, I mean, we think about it. I actually heard Pastor Chad Harvey preaching this past weekend about this. And he said, in churches or in areas like this, we always talk about that one person. You know, so-and-so, Jack was a murderer. He was killing people. And he said, and all of a sudden, Jack got saved, and he got radically on fire for Jesus Christ.
And that's great. Or Johnny, he was a drug addict. He was in the streets. He was doing this, doing that. All of a sudden, he got saved, radically saved, and Jesus saved his life.
But you know, one of my favorite stories about why the gospel is so important is I met a guy who was a retired preacher, probably in his 70s. He said, you know what, Mike? He says, when I was growing up, he says, this is true. He says, I don't ever remember saying a curse word.
He said, that's true. He says, I always pretty much told the truth. I was a good kid.
I made good grades. I seemed to do all the right things, and people told me that I was a good person. He said, and then I came to the point where I was about 16 years old, and I realized that I was just as lost as that person who was killing people.
I was just as lost as the person who was on drugs on the street. You know, and we look at people, well, they really need to be saved because they're bad people. The Bible says that no one seeks after God.
It says in Romans 3 23 that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We all need Jesus. I don't care how good you think you are or how bad you think you are, and sometimes it's easier for the drug addict or the person who's killing people and in prison, and they realize at least they know, I need a savior.
My life is messed up. Sometimes it's harder for the person who thinks they've got it all together, and they don't have any problems. They say, well, what do I need Jesus for? Like that preacher said, I needed Jesus just as much as any of them. Amen.
Amen. He's preaching now, and I hear him share that. Pastor J, you know, when you and I initially were getting to know each other better, it was that time in the relationship where we were like, okay, let's share each other's testimony.
And we both struggled because, you know, you weren't dropping acid, and I wasn't in a biker gang, and, you know, hadn't been to prison several times and on parole, but there was this real sense that we have in common that, man, we need, like what Michael just poured his heart, we need that tremendous, we need the grace of God. All we, this word all is so important. You know, just like all these words you see all in the Bible, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You know, Romans 3.23, and it says here, all we, like sheep, have gone astray. Now, the prophet Isaiah, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, picked probably the dumbest animal to compare us to.
He didn't need a shepherd. But Pastor J, you hear about that. We're all like those sheep, and even the most sanctified little guys growing up in church like you and me need the gospel.
Oh, absolutely. Stu, you know, the last two Wednesday nights have been going through Psalm 23 in my Bible study, and so the first week I really talked about sheep extensively, how sheep, it's crazy that, of course, God did use that animal to compare us to. I went through all these things about sheep, how they're, you know, they're prone to wonder. They stray away. They don't stay with the fold. They're defenseless.
They're not camouflaged. I went through all of these things about sheep, and then I looked at the camera and I said, how are we all feeling about ourselves right now? But that is true. We all are sheep in need of the great shepherd. There is great truth there. Singing about the cross right quick and leading up to Good Friday and Easter, I love Colossians 2, 13 and 14.
If you don't mind, I would like to read those. Paul said you were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
I love this. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities.
And we talked about this a little bit this morning. He disarmed the spiritual rulers and authority. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross. And so while his disciples thought for a long time that Jesus would come and set up his kingdom with force, he actually did the upside down thing and Paul says he shamed them by his victory over them on the cross. And so the cross is our victory. And it's interesting that it's this upside down thinking that it was through death that now we have life.
I think that's beautiful. And going back, and everything we're talking about is what he did for us. So we're dumb sheep, so what does God do? He sends the lamb of God.
What does the prophet say? After he says we like dumb sheep have gone astray, we've wandered every one into his own way. He says that he was led as a lamb to the slaughter. He instantly switches back from sheep to lamb.
And he says as a sheep before its shears is silent, he opened not his mouth. In front of Pilate, the greatest time to defend himself, the greatest time to stand up, because he was right. Have you ever been falsely accused? Jesus times a hundred times just that night in those awful trials, three to six trials.
The Roman trials, then you have the Jewish, the illegal Jewish trials, and all the high priest house, and the former high priest house, and all that. He's falsely accused. They're ripping out his beard. They're beating him. They're spitting in his face. They're punching him. Sucker punched him saying, who hit you?
Who hit you? He was oppressed. He was afflicted. Yet he opened not his mouth. He opened not his mouth.
It says it three different times in there. And here Jesus Christ was the one that John the Baptist said, behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. So we have the lamb of God who then could go in John 10 and say, I am the good shepherd. He's both the lamb. He's both the sacrifice for us dumb sheep so that he can be our Lord. He's the lamb. He's the Lord. He's the lion. He's coming back.
And on that cross, he was humiliated. And this language, Michael Zwick, thank you for focusing, if not for God today. And I'm Stu Everson. I'm just honored to be running alongside you today here at Dario in Winston-Salem. We just had Wednesday in the Word, a room full of 50 guys getting in the Word together.
All the Dario locations do this. And once in a while, we're able to have a celebrity like Michael Zwick come in. He does a show from here, if not for God. But you brought this passage up and look at this. I mean, this is so counterintuitive to how things are done.
Every religion is we got to get to God and make God like us, except for one belief is God came to us. And it's so crazy and so antithetical to how we think that Isaiah opens up by saying, who has believed our report? He says, this is nuts. Someone check these guys out of here.
They're done. But then he goes into the graphic nature. He's despised. He's rejected. There's no beauty in him that we should desire him.
He's a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. And we hit as it were our faces from him. We don't want to look on that cross.
We don't want to see that. He was despised and we did not esteem him. He's borne our griefs. He's smitten by God and afflicted. He's wounded for our transgressions.
He's bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon him. And by his stripes, we are healed. The stripes of Christ.
Yeah, you know, it's so true. And when I think about that, he died on the cross for our sins. He was beaten. He was buried. He rose from the grave. He was seen by over 500 people. And then they saw him ascend into heaven.
But it's like, you know, you see a lot of these commercials and they say, well, what's the catch? Well, the catch is, is you have to believe in him. You have to believe in him. And you have to realize first that you need a savior. There's actually a story that Jesus tells.
And it's in, I believe it's Luke 18. And he says, also he spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others. Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself. God, I thank you that I'm not like these other men. Extortioners, unjust adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I possess. And the tax collector standing afar off would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but he beat on his breast saying, God be merciful to me, a sinner.
I tell you this, this man went, went down to his house justified rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled. And he who humbles himself will be exalted. And so yes, he died on the cross for our sins.
Yes, he was beaten. Yes, he rose from the grave, but he said, you have to believe in me. And in order to believe in him, you have to, you have to trust in him.
And you have to realize that you need forgiveness. I see you turning to something, Stu. Well, I just, I think, I mean, Pastor J, what's your thought about that? I mean, Mike, you know, really there's a, there's a real responsibility out there.
Like people that are hearing this don't just flip the channel. But your eternal destiny is there. And honestly, there's nothing we can do about that for you. But there is someone we can introduce you to who will change everything. And that's who we're talking about.
Yeah, absolutely. Every Sunday I give the gospel. And no matter what message I'm preaching, I end with it. And my two favorite verses, you know, in the Bible are Ephesians 2, 8, 9. For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves. That is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast. And then I follow that up with, of course, John 3 16, the most popular verse probably in all the world. For God so loved the world, he gave his only son that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. And yeah, a person must come to that point where they realize they are a sinner and in need of a savior. And I like to call it a transfer of trust. That they placed their faith and their trust in the work of Jesus. And believe that he did indeed die and was buried and that he rose again.
And has the power to then give them the free gift of eternal life. And absolutely. What a blessing. And wherever you are right now, Michael, can I share the poem I wrote? I'd love to share this. I don't know if I've ever shared this. I don't know if I've shared this on my show, but can I share this with you real quick?
Sure, sure. Okay, this is from Last Words of Jesus. And I wrote this poem because I love the fact that you brought up that the two men that went to the temple to pray. Because only one of their prayers was heard.
Now the prayer that was more articulate and eloquent and far more sparkling and attractive was the prayer of the Pharisee. But this guy was a professional prayer. But let me tell you where his prayer went. It went to the ceiling and came right back down. And this whole prayer was, Lord, think I'm not like that guy. And you read it.
I love that. So, across the corridors of redemptive history, whose prayer does God answer? The prayer of the Pharisee or the publican? The cry of the prodigal or the older brother? The petition of the proud or of the penitent? The offering of Cain or the sacrifice of Abel?
So here's the poem. Two brothers the sacrifice made. One brought a lamb. The other his effort he brought.
The toil of his spade. The younger killed the lamb and was accepted by another. The older murdered his brother and was marked by death like no other. Two men went to the temple to pray. The righteous stood proud, disgusted by the sinner at his side. The other lowly bowed with barely a word to say. No salvation to the haughty man, but the sinner joyously was saved. Two brothers sought the father's heart to please.
One praised himself, his own righteous condition. The other begged for mercy with a heart of contrition. No peace for the elder son, but the younger found salvation. Two criminals ascended to Calvary, condemned to die.
One joined the hateful throng. The other listened humbly, his heart to the middle man drew nigh. A greater death met the first thief's wrong, while life everlasting came to the second from on high. One man poor in spirit, another man high and pious. One man low and humble, another proud and pompous.
Which man are you? Both those men asked for salvation at the cross. The first thief in his arrogance said, get us down from here, save us. I mean, there's a salvation request. I mean, there's a sinner's prayer.
He's a sinner, it's a prayer. But Jesus never responded to him once, because he wanted out of his fix. He wanted to get off that cross and go right back into his sin. He didn't want the Jesus to save him. He wanted the Jesus to fix him. He wanted that little potent. He wanted that little get out of jail, get off the cross free card, right? But the other man also asked for salvation. And it was arguably Pastor Jay and Michael, the most inarticulate, raw, nonsensical prayer in history, but it was the most powerful one. He said, Lord, it's a great place to start, isn't it?
If you confess your mouth to Jesus as Lord, Romans 9, 10. He said, Lord, remember me. Now, why those words remember me? Well, it depends on what you remember.
If I remember there's 10 million dollars buried under a rock in the backyard, that's pretty good, right? That's a good memory. Lord, remember me. Joseph said to the baker, remember me when you get to Pharaoh's court.
And thankfully he did, you know, eventually, right? Jesus said the last time Jesus heard the words remember me, by the way, was the night before when he broke the bread. And he held up the chalice of wine. He said, remember me. When you drink this and when you eat this, remember me. So when you're remembering the only one, when you remember the password that gets you into eternal life, the name of Jesus, the only name above any name.
Remember me when, not if, so he believed he was coming. You come into your kingdom. He's calling him King. He's calling him Lord. You're coming back. Remember me when you come in your kingdom.
He had it all right there. And Jesus said, truly, truly, I say to you today, right here, right now, you listening, this is for you. You need to pull that car over and you need to get right with God and call on him like that thief. You need to stop what you're doing and call upon the Lord for salvation. Today, you will be with me in paradise.
I love it. Charles Hattis Persian said that our Lord's last companion on earth was his first friend when he walked into the gates of heaven. Isn't that powerful? Michael Zwick, there's a call to everyone to trust Christ. There is a call and if you're listening to this right now, I think you're either a Christian and you say, yep, I believe this and that's awesome or you're not or you're questioning. And a lot of it, you know, when you first come to Christ, it comes by faith. And you say, well, I'll trust in Christ maybe when I figure out all these questions that I have. I've got a lot of questions and I want to figure that out before I come to Christ. But, you know, if you wait till you figure out all the questions, it says in 1 Corinthians 13, 12, it says, now we see through a glass darkly. Then we shall know just as we are fully known. We're not going to have all the answers until we get to heaven.
I mean, I've talked to some of the greatest scholars, the best theologians. And, you know, I think about the story of Ravi Zacharias when he said he was going through an airport one time and he said there was a, he didn't know where he was going. He pulled over and he looked at one of the screens and he asked somebody for directions about where he wanted to go for the next plane flight.
And the lady told him how to go and he said, all of a sudden, he saw this lady coming running up to him and she says, excuse me. She said, are you Ravi Zacharias? And he said, yes.
And she said, it's amazing. You have questions too. So, you know, there are answers that, you know, there are answers that we don't know the answers to yet, but we do have the answer. Is that right, Stu? We have the answer.
Jesus is the answer. And we're not going to knock you if the only time you go to church is Easter because this could be the only chance you have to hear the good news of Christ. And we're just glad that you're doing that or watching something. But if you do have a, if you're in the North Carolina area and you want to hear some worship and some encouragement in a safe, you know, sterile place, then the doors are open at Oak Lawn, Pastor, and tell everyone maybe how they can learn more about that. Yeah, you can check us out at oaklawnlife.com.
Oaklawn, O-A-K-L-A-W-N, life, L-I-F-E, dot com. So, we'd love to have you worship with us. That would be awesome. And interesting that Resurrection Sunday this year is very close to April Fool's Day, or as I like to call it, National Atheist Day. You know, Psalm 14, the fool has said it's hard, there is no God. So, really interesting how that corresponds, but we're hoping that people, the power of the resurrection, that is, there's so much there. Michael, as you wrap up, Michael Zwick, host of If Not For God, what's your challenge to everyone out there in terms of the resurrection Lord is resurrecting me.
What a great song. What's your challenge to everyone? My challenge to everyone is, I would assume a lot of the people listening to this are believers, is that do whatever you can to tell people this great news. I mean, people are working, trying to work their way into heaven all over the world, and let me tell you, you can't do it. It can't be done.
That's not how it works. It's as simple as, like Pastor Jay said, Ephesians 2, 8, and 9, for it is by grace that we are saved. There's no other way, and do whatever you can do just to tell people that good news. And maybe it's sharing this program with someone that needs to be encouraged, that needs to hear the love of Christ, that a loving God would send His only Son. We're in a little group of guys here. I want you guys to all say this with me, and we're going to try to capture this. We're at this dario with This Is If Not For God on location. A cool, rare opportunity.
You're able to get the show on the road and meet some people, and we're able to meet the host, and he's signing autographs and all that stuff. But guys, let's all say John 3.16 together. Can we do that? And just share this verse with someone. That's a great testimony. Let's just say it together. John 3.16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. If not for God.
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