153-Revival in America with Gary Wilkerson

The spiritual condition of America, politics, culture, and current events, analyzed through the lens of Scripture. Welcome to the Alex McFarland Show. I grew up in the mid-20th century, and I remember sitting in my parents' living room watching Billy Graham on TV. And I'm going to invoke, as I bring up the program today, some memories that many of you might have of God's work in America in the mid to late 20th century. Hi, Alex McFarland here.

We are on the floor at NRB. Got a very important show, very, very special guest that you'll meet in a moment. If you hear some ambient background noise, we're at a convention, and National Religious Broadcasters is a gathering that we have every year. And all the ministries and ministers that you have heard of come together, and we strategize and we pray for the Great Commission.

And we meet a lot of friends, one of whom I'll introduce in a moment. But in the 20th century, perhaps you remember the book and the movie, The Cross and the Switchblade. It was the story of David Wilkerson, and I remember very well hearing about David Wilkerson courageously sharing the gospel with gangs. And then he was pastor of Times Square Church, which I had the privilege of attending a time or two when I was in New York City. And then, back in the 90s, when I was a young youth pastor, I began to speak around the country at Teen Challenge venues, and that was also a ministry of David Wilkerson. Well, I'm so privileged to be here with his son, Gary Wilkerson, who's an amazing minister in his own right. His website is worldchallenge.org, and if you want to read his bio, worldchallenge.org slash Gary Wilkerson. He's an author, a broadcaster, a minister of the gospel.

He's got a brand new book out, but he is the son. And Gary, I want to say what an honor it is to meet you. I have such a respect for your family legacy in terms of the Great Commission. But thanks for visiting with us while we're here together at NRB. Thank you. It's great to be with you.

Yes. Give us a little of your story. How did God bring you to where you are in your journey, Gary? It started early through the influence of my father, just the man you were just talking about.

For me, it started when I was six years old. Sounds pretty young, but he was on the West Coast speaking to a group of, if you remember the day when they called the Jesus movement, it was during the hippie movement. So there was an auditorium, maybe 7,000 people filled with these long haired guys and, you know, girls with no shoes on and dressed like wild and motorcycle gangs were there and stuff. There's a huge event, and at the end of it, he gave an invitation for anybody that wanted to meet Jesus.

Maybe half the crowd moved down. And I can't really explain it because I was too young to really understand it, but I knew there's something happening here. This is a life-changing moment.

You know, God is present, the little bit I knew about God. And I just said, I don't want to be a fireman. I don't want to be a football player. I want to do this.

I want to help see people's lives transformed. Again, it was cloaked in much simpler language. It was more in my heart than in my mind. And ever since that time, I've been living this thing wholeheartedly. Never back-sled, never moved away from the gospel. Just even as a teenager, radically on fire for him, going to mission trips. Yeah, so still living it.

Yeah, I want to talk about all the work that you're doing currently, but for a moment, let's talk about the Jesus movement. Because I remember that too. I mean, I was like 7 or 8 years old. I have a sister who's quite a bit older than me. And I remember my sister having Bible studies in our parents' basement with 30 teenagers. Oh my goodness.

This is 1970, 71, 72. And I remember there were a number of big evangelistic events in my little southern town. And I so relate to what you're saying. I was 7 years old. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand Jesus. But I thought, God is here.

And someday, just like all these older teenagers that I was watching, but I'm going to know God too one day. That was a legitimate move of the Holy Spirit, wasn't it? It was, absolutely. In us, it sounds like there was a legitimate move of the Holy Spirit. But in the culture, in the day, it changed things.

It shifted radically from heavy drug use to sleeping around, orgies, parties, craziness in a culture, and into something that literally, it wasn't just a religious effect on somebody's life. It was a life-transforming moment for tens of thousands of people. And it was, you know, Jesus was on the cover of Time magazine. Did you happen to see, perhaps about a year ago, Greg Laurie made a movie called Jesus Revolution? Yeah, I saw that, yeah. I went to see it twice, and I took, I'm teaching at a college, I took three or four hundred college students to see that movie. And it was very impactful. Did you pay for all of them?

No, I paid for a lot of them. But what did you think of that movie? For those that may be unfamiliar, and folks, please get up to speed on what the Jesus movement was. Did you feel like that movie was accurate? I did, yeah. Can I tell you a quick story about my experience with something about the movie? Not the movie, but one of the characters, a guy named Lonnie Frisbee, who was one of the main characters in the movie.

I recall. So I was in Portland, Oregon, speaking at an event for a very wealthy doctor there. I went out in his backyard, sitting on this beautiful grassy knoll hill, had my back up against a tree, looking at a pond. And I lived in New York City at the time, and I said, God, can I live in a place like this? I would love to move out of the city. I've got two kids, I'm tired of it. I want to go, the next day, I'm speaking out on the streets.

We call it street rallies for gangs and drug addicts. And this guy walks up to me and says, I have a picture of you. I see you, you're sitting on this beautiful grassy yard, and you have a tree up, you're back up against a tree, and you're looking at a pond, and you're asking God, could you move here?

I'm thinking, man, that guy's really reading my mail. And he said, and the Lord has a word for you. And I said, what is it? He said, no, that was it. I was just like, and he walked away. And somebody walked up and goes, you know who that was?

I said, no, I have no idea. He goes, that was Lonnie Frisbee, the guy that's instrumental in seeing this Jesus movement go crazy all across California and America. Wow. And just like, how could somebody, you know, I'm not a freaky kind of Christian guy, but that kind of stuff shows you that God is real, God is present. Amen.

Amen. You know, one of the producers of our radio show is a man named Michael Segovia of PFC Audio Video, who got saved under Chuck Smith there at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. And Mike knew Lonnie Frisbee.

And Lonnie Frisbee's passed away and, you know, said he was really an amazing man of God. So I've got to ask you this in the context maybe of a dream deferred. So when God says, you know, the life, you know, in the natural, you know, with the pond and the peace tranquility, but God says no, I mean, how did that make you feel? Just hearing direction helps, you know. If you know what God's saying, you're happy.

Usually it's lack of clarity that confuses you. But strangely enough, 30 years later, the no became a yes. And the Lord gave us two acres in Colorado with a hill and a pond and a mountain.

And not only that, Pikes Peak looking out in the backyard behind it. So it's like, yeah, thank you, Jesus. You're faithful. We stayed faithful.

We stayed in the city. We stayed working with the most difficult people in the world you probably minister to. And we still get the joy of ministering to the least of these, as Jesus called them.

But at the same time, this is so good. But yeah, that movie was going back circling back to that. That movie was a great, great description of really of what was happening in those days, I believe. Well, when we come back, folks, we're talking with Gary Wilkerson, 50 years removed from the Jesus movement. I'm going to ask him, could something like this happen again?

Could a pervasive move of God's Holy Spirit in our culture, in our world, could it happen again and maybe is it already even in process? Stay tuned. We're back on the Alex McFarland show after this brief break. Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. And as always, I'm Gary Wilkerson, and I'll see you next time. He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely. Welcome back to the Alex McFarland show.

Welcome back to the program. You know, the Bible says that Jesus, his arms are open. John 637, Christ said, the one who comes to me, I will in no way reject. As we continue our conversation with Gary Wilkerson, maybe you need to come to Jesus. Maybe you need to come back to Jesus. Whatever you've done, he'll forgive.

Whatever's been done to you, he can heal. And I know my brother Gary would concur, come to Jesus. If you need help, on the website, AlexMcFarland.com, there's a tab, What Does God Say About My Relationship With Him? And if we can help you, encourage you spiritually, knowing who you are in Christ or how to have assurance of your salvation, please reach out to us.

We'd be happy to help in any way we could. Well, Brother Gary Wilkerson, it's a privilege to have you on. Before the break, you and I were talking about the Jesus movement, which I really believe was what scholars might call a great awakening. Five and a half decades ago. Could something like that happen again? Were masses of the culture radically born again? I mean, dare we hope a great revival like that could come again in our lifetimes? It's the heart of Jesus. He wants it more than we want it. If we walk in agreement with him, we're going to see it. And we're going to see it in radical measure. We're seeing just the first fruits of it. You know, the Bible talks about the cloud, the size of a man's hand, and then it goes bigger and bigger and bigger.

And then all of a sudden the rain starts pouring down. I think we're seeing that cloud, the small cloud happening now. I've had the privilege of meeting some campus pastors at Asbury University, a young man named Zach who's seeing still, even though that revival is not functioning the exact same way, he's seeing miracles and people coming to Christ. I got a text this morning from a pastor who was just at Yale University and they had 600 students come, 200 got saved last night.

He talked to the coach of the basketball team at Georgia. They're seeing revival there. So there's these spots, these little hot spots on the map. But I think a great awakening could happen, would happen, should happen. Please, Lord, make it happen. You know, I don't know if you know this, but today, even as you and I, we're in Dallas, Texas at a convention, you and I, but at Texas A&M, today I'm told that there are thousands of college students praying for God to move in America. Isn't that amazing? That's so powerful.

It really is. And it's nameless, it's faceless. Like you and I can't say Chuck's misleading this or Lonnie Frisbee or Billy Graham. David Wilkerson.

David Wilkerson, yeah. It's being led by students, it's led by, you know, so the guy at the campus that helped see that revival happen at Asbury, he told me five things, and I'm not sure I can remember all five, but he said, here's five things that these young people are wanting from Jesus today. First was nameless and faceless. Number two, not to be entertained, but be under the presence of God, the mighty presence of God. Number three, it's a community of people loving one another in real powerful ways, and just authentic, honest, real, and above all, it's like, I don't want junk. I don't want manipulation. I want Jesus at the center. Man, what greater revival could you possibly have than seeing the Christocentric power of Christ being exalted above anything else? Let me ask you some questions, and I just so respect and appreciate you and the work you're doing.

Okay. What is a Christian? What is a Christian? Follower of Jesus, someone who has understood that they're lost without him and hopeless without him and get a hunger to return to the life that they were originally meant to be. You know, I've heard a lot of people say, you know, the Bible doesn't start with the fall of man in Genesis 3. It starts with you're created in the image of God, and so there's this restoration to what God has originally planned for you. So it's about you being who you meant to be by God's creation, and number two, it's about him getting to know the one who created you. If I was born into a Christian family or went to a Christian school, does that automatically mean I'm a Christian?

No, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, sometimes it makes it harder to become a Christian because you get almost inoculated from it. You're not getting the real dose. You know, so one of my sons, even though my father started a drug program that's helping tens of thousands set free, one of my sons became a drug addict. I mean, real hardcore heroin, living on the streets homeless, and then one day he had this supernatural, he was in a dark room, a physical light didn't turn on, but a supernatural light turned on in his room. He said my heart was filled with the presence of Jesus.

He said, Dad, I gave it all up. I just said I surrender, and so now he would have told you he was a Christian before because he went to church and his dad was a pastor and his grandfather was a pastor. Now he tells you with tears in his eyes, man, I'm all out for Jesus. He's the only reason I'm alive today, and so you don't have to be a homeless heroin addict to get turned back to Jesus, but some wealthy people that live in the high life need salvation just as much. You know, I often say this, Gary, we know the down and outs need Jesus, the up and outs need Jesus.

Absolutely, yeah, they were so good. What does it mean to be a disciple? A disciple where you surrender everything you have and it's all about him. You get your cues from him, your direction from him.

I don't think it's so much a program, which I think in America we tend to make it programized. Here's five steps, here's some books, and those can be aids to our discipleship. The real simple take on it would be the fisherman who Jesus said, come and follow me.

What do they do? They left everything. It doesn't mean you have to give up your business. It does mean you have to give your all to Jesus. More so, being a disciple is not really about what you do for him.

It's about allowing him to do what he does for you. A lot of us think of discipleship as if I do these five things, then I'm a disciple. The basic discipleship is, as Jesus does these things in my life, he transforms me, he heals me, he changes me, he gives me a new mind. Jesus says, out of the innermost being of your heart comes rivers of living water.

So it's in the mind, but it's in the heart too, that your heart changes. These aren't things you do by studying, although those help. They're not things you do by listening to sermons, although those help. Those are things that you come into the presence of Jesus and allow him to do what you cannot do for yourself. And those are the people that I call a real, these are the, I hate to have to attach another word, but a radical disciple, I think is a needed word now because a disciple, the word oftentimes now is watered down. And so I believe in, I'm trying to raise up a generation of radical disciples. Amen. Well, you know, and I think what some might call a radical disciple is actually a normal disciple.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Have you ever heard of Leonard Ravenhill? Is that name ring a bell? Oh, Leonard, I love, hey, one of the most important books, and folks, stop what you're doing. Go get this book now.

You don't even have to pray about it. Go get this book, Why Revival Terries, by Leonard Ravenhill. That book radically impacted, Gary, I was given that book as a young Christian. I was saved like three months. And this Greek family that had a restaurant, they were spirit-filled born-again believers. They gave me that book. And that book impacted me to this very moment. But Leonard Ravenhill, bring us up to speed.

I'm glad you said that. But we were talking about a radical disciple should be the norm. So here's what I remember.

I can never forget. He says, a normal Christian today is so subnormal that if someone began to act like a normal New Testament Christian, they'd be considered abnormal. So we're subnormal. Even if you just act like a normal disciple of Jesus, like from the book of Acts, you'd be considered abnormal. Like, why is that guy freaking out? Why is he giving all his money to the poor? Why is he traveling around the world?

Or why is he loving his wife so well? It could be a plethora of different things, but it definitely is, in our generation, abnormal. But praise God, let's be abnormal, if that's what it takes. Hey, we've got to take a break. Alex McFarland here.

We're talking with Gary Wilkerson. I love book titles. And when we come back after this break, we're going to talk about what I think belongs in the book title Hall of Fame, the jaw-dropping beauty of Jesus. Now stay tuned. We'll talk about that and more after this break.

Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. For more information about yourself and Jim Wallace, go to thecove.org, thecove.org. And I hope to see you next summer. Welcome back to the program. Before we resume our conversation with Gary Wilkerson, let me ask you to please go to alexmcfarland.com. We've got a conference series this summer of 25, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. We're bringing in great people like Gary Chapman, who wrote the five love languages, Dinesh D'Souza, Charlie Kirk, Lauren Green from Fox News, the website alexmcfarland.com. And you can register and attend these important conferences to help you understand being a disciple in the 21st century, biblical worldview, there are group discounts for churches.

These conferences are in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. But all across America, Montana, upstate New York, Virginia, Colorado, Iowa, we've got our summer camps. We'll have 1,200 kids in seven summer camps. And by the way, you can please pray, because every summer we have teenagers give their life to Jesus. We have a lot of kids come back multiple times. But a tax-deductible contribution of $400 would underwrite a week of camp for a young person. In 25 years, we have never, ever, never turned away any teenagers. So would you please go to alexmcfarland.com, consider donating.

Or you can go to the camp website, which is equipretreat.org, and find the camp near you. And as we say, invest a week that will count for a lifetime. Well, somebody who's given their life to the Lord, and is just such a dear friend in the Lord, Gary Wilkerson, he leads a ministry, and the website is worldchallenge.org. You know, Gary, thanks for being with us. And before the break, we were talking about Leonard Ravenhill. And I believe I read in one of his books, he said we should seek revival like a drowning man would seek his next breath of oxygen. That's good.

That's good. I personally think one of the things that really will charge anybody's batteries is to take a long, heartfelt look at Jesus. I mean, now, you wrote a book called The Jaw-Dropping Beauty of Jesus. I've never read that book. I like that book already.

Thank you. Tell me about the book, but if you would, elaborate for us on the title. Yeah, it started with my wife and I just felt led by the Lord to read the book of Hebrews twice a day together, morning and night.

And so we did that for 30 days, missed a few sessions, but overall reading it. And then we just asked ourselves, what do we take away from this? And it was that, just how glorious and amazing Jesus is above everything else. Then we started to begin to understand after we started writing this, is to say in that culture where the book of Hebrews was written was these things that were coming up almost to match the preeminence of Jesus Christ.

And they're things that we don't wrestle with. Like, I don't wrestle with worship of angels, never met anybody that does. Or Moses as being the greatest prophet in the world. But the Jewish culture of their day, they were introducing Jesus to them and they were saying, okay, we'll add Jesus to Moses and to the worship of angels and to the prophets and to the law. And so the writer of Hebrews says, no, I'm going to show you Jesus. And as soon as I'm done showing you about Jesus, you're going to see something that Moses doesn't compare to, that angel worship doesn't compare to, that the law doesn't compare to.

This is life-altering vision of a glorious Jesus Christ. And so, yeah, this book is written to, the things in our culture that are different than what's happening in their day because I would need to write a book to myself to say, Jesus, nothing you do compares to, your ministry doesn't compare to him. Which sometimes, I think we in the ministry full-time, we get so busy and enamored by our goals and our visions and our dreams, Jesus begins to take a backseat. Pastors growing up with the big church is their goal and that it just becomes such a driving force that Jesus becomes somebody who, maybe you can help me, Jesus, do my thing. So, I wanted to write a book that just called people back to the preeminence of Jesus Christ and not ministry first, not business first, not making money first, not your family first, not your spouse first, but Jesus be first. And of course, the Bible says when you seek him first, other things will be added unto you. The chapter that most ministers, to me, that I keep trying to remember myself, is Hebrews chapter 5 where it says, so he's talking about Jesus in the book and then he says, there's so much more I could tell you about Jesus, but you just aren't able to listen to it right now.

And I just, I get convicted by that. Oh my gosh, I want to know that something more. Lord, please, if you could open up a glimpse of what that something more that could have been told. I mean, because what was told in Hebrews is phenomenal. Oh, I love the book of Hebrews. Do you remember Warren Wiersbe, great Bible teacher? I was reading his commentary and Warren Wiersbe said, you know, whoever wrote the book of Acts had the equivalent of a college degree. Whoever wrote Luke had the equivalent of a master's degree.

But whoever wrote Hebrews would have had the equivalent of a PhD. Now, it is profound and I think about, you mentioned that scripture in Hebrews 5, but in the Gospel of John, John the Apostle says, if we wrote all the other things Jesus said and did, I suppose all the books and all the world could not contain them. Do you remember that verse?

Yeah, absolutely. And folks, if you, maybe you know about Jesus, but the opportunity is to know Jesus. And it is the greatest experience. And it's the, for one thing, it's the way of salvation.

Jesus is not one option among many. He's Lord of all, isn't he? That's right.

Yeah. That's so good. Yeah, that he stands out above them all. And no matter how much of Jesus you have already, there's always more. You know, I always see John, the beloved Revelation, he stands there and says he was on the Isle of Patmos, and he says he was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.

So it sounds like he's doing pretty good. He's in the Spirit. I've always loved that verse.

Yeah. But then it says, then he heard a voice, a loud voice, and he turned. And what does he see? He says, he sees seven candlesticks, and the seven candlesticks represent the churches. So John was a bishop, an apostle, so he's carrying, oh, cool, Jesus, you're going to do something. You're going to revive that church and you're going to cleanse that church. But then he stops and he goes, then I saw, and this drives me to tears almost every time I read this, but then I saw one in the middle. And that verse, okay, it's great that he was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day. It's great that he cares for the churches. But now he's saying, there's one in the middle of this whole thing. That's my focus.

That's my vision. And the seven churches, you'll help me care for them. Being on the Spirit on the Lord's Day, you'll be there in our church on the Lord's Day.

But we've got to keep that one in the middle. And that's the same as the book of Hebrews, I think. Do you know, there's so much I want to ask you, and we're just having church here at NRB. You mentioned, I love that verse, too, in Revelation. In Isaiah 53, and which is, by the way, Isaiah 53 was written 700 years plus before the birth of Jesus. It talks about how he's going to suffer, and the chastisement of our peace was upon him. In other words, what it took for our sins to be atoned for was put on Jesus. Very interesting verse, it says, it pleased the Father to bruise him.

And I thought, I was a young Christian, Gary, I was reading that. Here's the thing, you know, the precious Son of God spat upon, beaten, blasphemed, nailed to a cross. The wrath of God that we deserve was put on Jesus. And folks, listen, what God the Father was saying is, look, if it means you would be saved, if it means you would be redeemed, your broken heart fixed, you reconciled to God at peace with yourself, saved. God says, look, I was happy to do it for you, child.

I cue that up, Gary, by asking you this. We live in a world of substance abuse, sexual bondage, broken marriages, broken relationships. In all my travels, sometimes I've found that people almost can't give themselves permission to believe God would love them. This Jesus that laid down his life, the Father that was willing to give the Son, speak to the person listening who just can't hardly believe God would love them this much. Jesus says, are you not more valuable to me than all the birds of the air? He said that to me recently, and it overwhelmed me. I just was renewed once again. But I said back to the Lord, it's like, well, of course I'm more valuable than birds.

They're like, who isn't? And then I said, you can put a period at the end of that if you want. You are more valuable. Do you not know how valuable you are to Jesus that he would lay down his life? That Isaiah 53 passage is, if you haven't read that, somebody go read it today.

If your heart is able to be moved at all, it will be moved. But the love of Jesus is something that he wants you to understand who you are, who he created you to be, who you are in Christ. It's a phenomenal thing. The world tries to offer you other things to make you feel valuable, fame, success. Today it's like how many Instagram followers you might have, and all those things are fleeting pleasures.

They're not the real thing. Jesus can offer you the real abundant life that he calls into existence for our behalf. And that's what he did on the cross. That passage of Isaiah 53 is so meaningful to me because as you read another passage of scripture, Deuteronomy 28 and 29, 28 talks about all the blessings you can have in your life. You can have peace. You can have joy. You can have abundance.

Your family can go well. But then in Deuteronomy 29 it says, but if you don't, all these curses will fall upon you. Plight and sickness and death eventually comes on you. And then that Isaiah 53 is saying, Jesus took all the curses that were meant for you because of your sin and he took them upon himself on the cross. And as a result of that, you're free from that and now you can have all the blessings that you don't deserve.

So I think there's nothing like this. Our ministry, World Challenge, we work in a lot of Muslim contexts and Hindu contexts in India. We do church planting around the world. Man, when you sit down and have an open conversation with others about world religions, there's nothing that compares to this.

The grace of Jesus pouring out where everything else is law and when Christian becomes law, it's just as dead as any other world religion. But if it's Christ-centered, what Jesus has done for us on the cross, then all of a sudden you're free. The victory's won for you.

You're not trying to win a victory. He's already won it for you. Well, folks, that grace and that complete forgiveness and restoration, joy, fulfillment, think about that word, fulfillment completely, it's as close by as a prayer and it begins as you open your heart to Jesus. Please believe that Jesus Christ loves you. Please believe that the abundant life of John 10-10, it's yours for the asking and for the receiving.

Gary Wilkerson, I'm so sorry, we're almost out of time. We've got to visit some more because I want to hear about the work that you're doing in over 70 countries around the world. But before we go, your books. Where may people find your books?

They're vital. Learn about your ministry. Give us the place to go to learn all things Gary Wilkerson.

All right, thanks a lot. Yeah, worldchallenge.org, all the books are available. We have sermons, we have podcasts, and you can learn about our missions as well. We're praying that God will send people our way to help us help them become who God intended them to be, which is to us, it's James 1-27, pure religion and undefiled as this, caring for the orphan and the widow. So if anybody would like to step it up, step out of just Sunday services and Sunday songs and live a radical discipleship life, part of that is going to be your compassion for the world. So we're here at World Challenges to help you help people to, as my wife says, someone save a life today.

You know, someone step up and do something meaningful. So all that content is at our worldchallenge.org as well. God bless you folks. Thanks for listening, and Gary Wilkerson, thank you for being with us. It's been truly a blessing to have you on. Likewise.

I enjoyed every minute of it. God bless you and a great ministry you're doing. And you as well. Alex McFarland Ministries are made possible through the prayers and financial support of partners like you. For over 20 years, this ministry has been bringing individuals into a personal relationship with Christ and has been equipping people to stand strong for truth. Learn more and donate securely online at alexmcfarland.com. You may also reach us by calling 1-877-YES-GOD and the number 1. That's 1-877-Y-E-S-G-O-D 1. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again on the next edition of The Alex McFarland Show.