Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

Here's the Matt Slick live. Today's date is, let's see, January 27th, 2025. And if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And I want to hear from you. If you want, you can also give me a call or actually an email at info at KARM.org, info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, KARM.org, and put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question.

So it's now official. I'll be out in Dallas, the board of directors and myself out in Dallas for the week of the 25th, 6th range, we're going to go to the NRB convention. We'll be free in the evenings, and we're going to see what's going to happen then. I'm just getting a heads up, you never know what might happen. People who are out there. And so there's that.

Let's see, let's see, let's see. So I've done a newsletter in like three weeks. I keep postponing, not postponing, I just for a gab, I'm so busy. And we are working hard on a lot of things. Man, a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff going on. All right, hey, why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. Oh, and here's some, you know how life just gives you a little something.

So get this. So I did a load of clothes today. I put all my clothes, I mean, I wear the last surviving shirt to wear. And then everything else goes in. What I do is I put everything in the wash on cold, and then I put it in the dryer on nuke.

I just go dry with nuke level. And then whatever survives, that's what I wear. I don't even worry about it, so I just put it in there. So I put everything in the washer today, and it's full. Ninety-five percent of my stuff is in there, and the washer breaks. So now it's sitting there, I have to get a hose and siphon everything out, got to get a new washer.

So it can't happen with just washing a few things. No, it's got to be everything. So I'm smiling, it's not an issue we're going to deal with. You know what that's like out there, right? Right, old land? Yeah, you go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, well, no big deal.

Hey, let's get to Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina, Rudolph, welcome, you're on the air. Yes, sir, is the ESV an okay Bible to read? Oh, yeah, ESV is a very good Bible, I would recommend it, sure.

Oh, okay. Yeah, uh-huh, I trust it. ESV's done very well, and no Bible's perfect. I tend to judge Bibles by Romans 5, 18.

I want to see what they do with that. And it's not as good as it needs to be in that particular verse, but it does really good and really well in other areas. So, yeah, it's a good Bible, definitely good. What about the, okay, what about the New King James? Yeah, see, the New King James is better than the King James because it takes away the thes and thes, we don't talk like that, and it has reference to better manuscripts, even older manuscripts than the King James was translated from, so it'll be updated.

And it's fine. What I recommend is that people get, when they do want to do serious Bible studies, get three translations. I prefer the NASB because it's more wooden and literal.

The ESV and the NIV are similar. You can get either one or both, and you'll be fine, and then get the King James, and even the New King James is fine. And so, but, you know, get three.

I say three is good. You just open them up, you read the verses, and you compare. And if you want to study, you say, well, wait a minute, why is that verse different over here?

And then that causes you to study, and you learn. And that's what I recommend if people want to do that. So three Bibles is great. The ESV is good. The NASB is good. The New King James is good. NIV is good.

They're not perfect, but I would recommend it. Okay, thank you very much, and I hope your laughter gets okay. Yes. I'm going to have to call a friend up and say, you need a truck? Okay, go get a dryer tonight or something like that.

I've got a bunch of trucks. So, you know. Okay.

Yeah, that's what it is. That's life. God bless, brother. Okay, God bless, brother. Take care. All right. You too, and God bless. Okay. All right. Hey, let's get to none other than Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome. You're on the air.

Well, good evening, Matt Slick. My question is, why do so many Christians believe that the God of the Muslims, Allah, is the same as the Christian God, Yahweh, because they believe he's monotheistic, so they think, oh, man, they think he's the same God as the Christian God, or the... Well, they believe it. Why do Christians believe that? Yeah, they believe it because they're not as educated as they need to be in the theology differences between the God of Islam and the God of Christianity. So the God of Islam is not three persons, but the God of Christianity is three persons.

And that's right. There's a fundamental difference. So they're not the same at all.

Okay. So, so, so based on that alone, or just, uh, really, basically, I believe that God, Allah, doesn't even exist. It's just something that's made up. Yeah, he doesn't exist. There is no Unitarian God out there, and that's a Unitarian God. And the God of Islam doesn't exist. It's, Mohammed made him up. He's actually derived out of the moon God, which is why the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon. And so, in the Ka'ba, when the Ka'ba is the place of worship, it had 360 idols in it.

And this is a time of Mohammed in Saudi Arabia area. So they had 360 idols. Now, what's interesting is that 360 degrees in a circle. And a lot of scholars think that this is because the year was 360 days, not 365. And it's something astronomical around, around the early 700s, 701 to 703, 4, 5 BC, that there was an astronomical event that altered some stuff.

There's some interesting evidence for that, but nevertheless. So, he went in and said that all of them are false, except for this one, Allah and Arabic word for God, and it was the moon one. And so that's the true God. And then defined it in an Aryan kind of sense. Aryanism is that God is one person and that Jesus is a created thing. There's variations of that, but that's what they teach about Jesus, that he's not divine. And so they deny the incarnation, they deny the crucifixion of Christ, they deny justification by faith alone, they deny the true God, they deny the true gospel. So all who hold to official Muslim theology and believe it knowingly are in a state of damnation and will continue to be in that state, even after they die. So this is why they need the gospel. Okay.

All right. No, I was watching this video, you know, on James Taddish, he invited Dr. James Smith, he's an expert on the, you know, on the Islam. He was saying that how they discovered some coins and, and they found, you know, that they had, uh, uh, one of the person's head on it was carrying a cross and his career, uh, staff or something across also. So that proves that all that area was all Christians. It was not, there was never no Muslim influence at all in that area, that Southern part of that area.

So a lot of the Muslim want to hide that truth. They don't want people to know the truth about that on the program was watching the James Taddish on his channel. I don't know if you heard of him, James Taddish. He's talking about the Dr. J Smith. Yeah.

Well, he bought it at the time. Dr. J Smith was talking about all that on the, on his channel. All right. Thank you, Matt Slick. All right, man. Sounds good, buddy. Well, God bless. You too. Okay.

All right. Now, if you want to give me a call, we have two open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Matt from North Carolina. Matt, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man. How you doing, man? Doing all right. Doing all right. Talking to one another, Matt. So it's the Matt attack right now.

It's good stuff. Yeah, that's funny. I've got questions about like modern day preachers and they believe that, um, Jesus turned his back on the son and, uh, but then there's a scripture in Isaiah 53 where it pleased the Lord to bruise him.

Um, could you, uh, clear that, that issue up with me or could you clear that issue? Yeah, it's a, it's a faulty thing for people to say, God, the father turned his back on Jesus. What does it mean to turn his back on him?

Just say something like this, but they can't define what it means. So if you ask him, what does it mean? He no longer was divine. Uh, he didn't like Jesus anymore. Didn't want anything to do with Jesus anymore.

Turn his back on him, rejected him. What does it mean? And they don't answer the question.

They just say this kind of a thing and they're not really thinking it through. So I never use that kind of terminology. I just say that when he said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? He was quoting Psalm 22 verse one, which has written thousand years BC. And in that Psalm lists a depiction of the crucifixion, which was written there before the Phoenicians invented crucifixion around 600 BC. The Romans borrowed it.

So the Romans had invented. So, uh, it's 400 years before crucifixion was even invented. Psalm 22 was written, which is a messianic Psalm. And it starts off with my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And it deals in part also with Jesus becoming sin. He bore us in his body on the cross. First Peter 2 24, and it became sin.

First Corinthians five 17. So the thing is that what happened there, we don't know. We just don't know. And so we should not say anything happened if we don't know what happened lest we speak heresy. Okay. Okay.

I got a second question. Um, this is, it's off topic, but, uh, you know, uh, and, um, first Corinthians chapter 14, um, it's talking about, um, speaking in tongues and all, you know, it's, um, let's see, it says earlier on in the, uh, in the chapter, it says, uh, don't let nobody speak with the, uh, with the tongue, unless, let's say the interpreter. But at the end of the chapter, it says, um, don't, don't, don't forbid him, but don't stop anyone from speaking in tongues and covet to prophesy. Could you clear that up for me as well?

Yes. Uh, there's things that'd be done in order in the church when the charismatic gifts are utilized, used, experienced, and two or three to speak in tongues at the most. And then with interpretation, otherwise remain silent. And that's it. And so I've been in churches where they're all speaking at once or all singing in tongues at once. It's unbiblical and I've called, I actually called one pastor out on it very politely, very respectfully, you know, why do you do that?

If the Bible says this, and then we had a discussion about it. So, uh, that's it. Okay.

That's how it's supposed to be done. So, okay. Okay.

That works for me. I don't have any problem with everybody's gifts. Yeah.

Even as a Calvinist, I have, I believe in the continuation of the gifts. I do. So it's cost me a lot in my, in my, uh, time.

It's cost me a lot. Yeah. Yup.

Yup. All right, man. I thank you.

Thank you for turning up those two issues. Thanks, man. All right, brother. God bless. All right.

All right. We've got a break coming up here. So we got to Carl from Ohio next. I'm going to wait till after the break because the music is going to start any, any minute here any second. There it is.

And someone sent me an article, which we need to talk about out of Iraq. Was that the music? I heard the music. Was that the music?

No, I'm not sure what's happening. I thought I heard it. There it is. There it is. I hear it now.

All right. Hey, there we go. Folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick, everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have two open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Carl from Ohio. Carl, welcome. You're on the air. Can you hear me, Mr. Slick?

Yes, I can. I hear you. Okay. I was talking to a friend of mine and I believe in free speech and we are opposed on most everything. She actually forget what the word tolerance means.

I had explained to her what tolerance means because when you agree with her, she would say, I mean, tolerance like, no, you're in town. But anyway, I forget where it was either communist China or wherever where they were not allowed to have so many girls or so many boys that they would have to abort. I forget which gender it was, but now they're filling a void, you know? Right. You know, so, you know, my man tried to play God, you know, things trickle down in heaven. So, and I'm not, I'm not venerating Donald Trump.

He's just a man. And you know what Daniel 2 21 says in Daniel 4 17, you know, God puts people in those places. But anyway, um, so she's talking about, um, him sending people back to the countries that came from. Now we know that there were protocols for becoming an American citizen.

I believe in that. And she said, well, there goes the workforce. And I wanted to tell her so bad, but she would have got offended and probably stopped talking to me, no, we actually killed our workforce.

Okay. Through abortion. She's a big abortion, right person. And those kids would have had kids.

It would have been more than enough people to work, but actually we murdered our workforce. And I just want to call to make that statement. If I would have told her that she would have been so offended, but it's really true, you know? So one of the ways to get around offending someone is to ask questions and tell me about it. Okay. Okay. Yeah, so I'll say, are you saying that it's, it's a good thing for people to illegal enter illegally enter our country? Is that I'm just asking, is that good? You approve of that or you prove them breaking the law and then they don't like being asked those kinds of questions because they will know they won't won't, but they don't approve of it, but they, but it's okay to do it. So they're, they're hypocritical or yes, it's okay to break the law. It is.

So no matter what happens, they're going to lose. That's why you ask the question like that and leave it up to them to see what they're going to do. Okay.

That's what I do with people. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Well, what if someone, you know, illegally broke into your house and sets up camp in one of your spare rooms? Is that okay? Well, no, it's not okay. Well then, but you say it's okay for, for the country to do it, right? For them to break into the country. And we know that a lot of murderers, a lot of really bad people have done this.

Let me tell you something. When I was in Escondido, which is Spanish for hidden, Hidden Valley, hidden in San Diego County, and I speak enough Spanish to work in a hospital and register people. And I remember one time I stood up and counted how many people were in the emergency room. I think it was exactly 30 at the time. And 27 of them were Hispanic. And I had to speak Spanish regularly all the time. And a lot of times they had been in the country many years, were pregnant, didn't even speak English. I mean, eight years.

And this was, you know, I remember one woman, eight years, didn't speak any English and was just having babies. Now that's an abuse of the system. Now I understand that, you know, they want to get a better life. I get it. Just come in legally. I get it too.

Yeah. And so we don't turn them in. We're not going to turn them in. You know, they're illegal.

They're not going to do, they need to help. You know, I was at a Walmart a few days ago and there was a gentleman at the, I think he couldn't speak English and I almost stepped in to help him translate, but there's HIPAA stuff and there's medical stuff. You gotta be careful.

But at any rate, so he was having to use a phone to get medicine. I'm not going to turn them in. I'm not going to do something like that. I'm trying to make a better life, but people need to do things properly. Yeah. Yeah, no, no.

What do you think about me telling her? Cause she would have been highly offended because she's so pro-abortion that, you know, we, if there is a shortage of people, we actually kind of killed them. You know, since Roe v way, if you start adding up all the babies who were killed and they would have had babies, I'm like, well, we really had the people here would have had them here, but you know, we kind of kill them all.

So here's a roundabout question. You can ask them, when does the life in the womb have value or when does it have value? And because women will say it has value. When I decided it has value, they say, if I decide it's going to live, then I'm deciding whether it lives and dies.

I'm just asking my value or not. That's fascinating. Even though the kid has his own DNA, has his own blood type. Uh huh. You know, the moms is kind of us has some of the mom characteristic, but she's kind of like an incubator because the kid is an individual. Like here's the most fascinating thing made.

Okay. It's like out of sight out of mind. Cause you know, we have an Abby Johnson, when she saw that ultrasound abortion, she was like, I can't do this. She saw how brutal it was.

And that's such a machine. Yes. When the woman just sort of kid apart, if people could see that, if my friend could actually see how brutal that is and she said, the kid actually tried to get away. Cause you know, we born with that sense of self preservation.

Oh yeah. The kid, if people could see it, these proportionists, I think they would know how gross it is. You know how evil it is. And then I say, okay, you can kill your kid in the womb. But as soon as the mother brought the kid, if she just starts stabbing the kid right out of the womb, she will be considered a murderer. That's fascinating. One minute earlier, it's okay to kill the kid. Oh, the stupidity. This is what happens. It's part of the cult mind is, uh, you justify what you want because you justify what you want.

What's what I want. The baby has life. When I decided it has life and I can kill it. But when it's outside the womb, then it's a baby. As in somehow just being born changes its nature from non-human to human. Somehow the birth canal changes the inner working nature of a baby being born.

You know, because you can't see the crime when it's hit. That's right. Yeah. I would have a national public debate with this top abortionist, pro-abortionist person and a public debate. I would have a debate, uh, is, uh, is, uh, abortion morally acceptable?

You know, something like that. Is it biblically acceptable? They wouldn't want to debate that.

Is it morally acceptable? And, uh, that'd be a good, good generic topic. And, Oh man, I would look across exam.

I would ask some difficult questions. I don't know what I've done with it. What's your problem? I know how to be irritating. My wife says she says, um, I'm quite irritating and obnoxious. Yes. So I try not to be.

Yeah. But you, but you irritate someone into the truth. That's what you do. You're not irritating to a fault. You're attaining to the truth.

You are. Well, that's what I do, you know? And with my wife, I try and irritate her into believing everything that I do because I'm always right. And, uh, you know, she rubs her forehead a lot.

Uh, it's another medical issue that she's developed recently. So I don't. Okay. Thanks for listening to me. I appreciate that.

And, uh, and thanks for your recommendations on how to question her. I appreciate it. All right, man.

Sounds good, buddy. God bless. Have a good day. You too. All right. All right. Uh, now let's get over here to, uh, Lye, Lye, L-Y-D-E from North Carolina.

You're welcome. You're on the air. Yeah.

Yes. Hey, Mac. Hi. This is my, can you hear me?

Yes, I can. I hear you fine. Yeah. Mac. Okay. This is my question.

Okay. This, this pastor explained the father and the son of the Holy Ghost to me this way. My answer, Mac, you a father, you also a dad, I mean a husband and you also, um, um, a minister. Is that considered one, uh, uh, one person, uh, God is one person and he has, uh, the, um, representation of the father. We got a break.

And what he's giving is modalism or, uh, Sibelionism and it's not a Trinity. So hold on. I'll get back from the break.

Okay. Hey folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, it is really easy to style 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with, how do you pronounce your name? The way it's spelled here is different. Lied. Lied. Okay.

That's open. I mean, you lied. You know, lied, lied.

I'm sure you've never heard any of those before. Yeah. L-Y-D-E. And it's a pleasure to talk to you, but this is my question, Matt. And I'm going to hang up so I can hear your explanation. Okay. Stay on, it's okay. Okay.

This is a question. I've heard so many different ways about explaining the father, the son, and the holy ghost. And I'm going to give an example that was easy for me to follow, but I don't know if it's biblical and it's safe for anything like I said earlier, you being Matt, you're a husband, you're also a father, and you're also a minister.

Yeah, that's wrong. You're one person with three different roles because when you're with your wife, you're not a minister. When you're with your congregation, you're not a husband.

When you're with your children, you're their daddy. So my question is, can you explain to me what the biblical concept of the father, the son, and the holy ghost based on the example I just gave you? And please, you know, just have your way according to the word of God. Because like I said, these are ministers.

They have explained it, but it was so difficult. So I'm going to hang up while you give me your biblical concept. All right. Thank you so much. Sure.

Okay. Yeah, you should never say that it's one person with three offices and three roles. That's modalism, Sibelionism, it's a heresy. God is not one person with three roles. And when people say that, they don't realize, not intentionally, but they're actually speaking a heretical, false view that's been condemned throughout history in Christian churches. So we don't say that one is like a man is a father, a husband, and a minister. It's one person.

No, God is three persons. So that fails right there. That is an inappropriate analogy. And if you're a minister or elder out there listening to this, don't, don't use that. Okay.

It's just not good. Here's a better one. Okay. Time is past, present, and future. They're not identical to each other, but they're distinct from each other.

The past is not the exact same thing as the present, which is not the exact same thing as the future. So they all exist. Now we could get into some philosophy here. Do they all exist simultaneously?

Some say yes. So there's A theory, B theory of time. Not going to get into all that stuff. The idea is that time exists past, present, and future to God. It's all there at once.

All right. And they have distinction and are simultaneous with distinction. And, uh, that's, that's just an analogy. Uh, uh, the past and the present and the future are all by nature time, but they're distinct from each other. The past is not the same thing as the future, or it's not the same thing as the present. They're not the same thing, but they're all the same nature. And we recognize distinction when we recognize the relationship to each other and we recognize distinction in a relationship to us.

That's the best analogy that I would offer anybody to use on the Trinity. Okay. And, uh, you do not, do not teach. Don't stop it. Please don't, do not do it. Don't say God is like a dad, a man who's a dad, a husband, and a minister or a mechanic or whatever it is you want to put in there. The one person is three things, uh, and at different times, or maybe even satellite. No, no, no, don't do that.

You will lay the foundation for them to possibly accept modal monarchism, oneness theology, which is non-Christian. Okay. All right, everybody. I hope that helps. I hope that helps. Now let's get to Glenn from Richmond, Virginia. Glenn.

Welcome. You're on the air. How are you doing, man? Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

I'm hanging in there more hanging than in there, but I'm hanging in there. What do you got buddy? All right.

Um, I have a question about, um, Isaiah 53, cause I heard a guy called in about Isaiah 53 and, um, I was, my question is who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53? Well, let's go through it and take a look. All right.

Because, uh, a lot of times the Jews will say it's the nation of Israel. Okay. And they have to say that because otherwise it points to Jesus and they can't do that. Right. So let's just go and, uh, start in verse one.

Okay. Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a tender shoot and like a root out of parched ground. He has no stately form or majesty that we should look upon him nor appearance that we should be attracted to him. Other people think it's either Jesus or Israel running both of your mind and listen to which one makes more sense as Jesus or the nation of Israel.

Okay. He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief and like one from whom he hid their, men hid their face. He was despised.

We did not esteem him. Does that sound like Israel? Because he calls him a man. Now people will say, well, that's Israel because it's just, it's a poetic way of saying it's Israel. Yeah.

Okay. Surely he, or it's going to be surely our griefs, he himself bore and our sorrows he carried. Yet we have ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted, but he was pierced through for our transgressions.

He was crushed for our iniquities. The chastening of our wellbeing fell upon him and our, by his scourging, we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray.

Each one has turned to his own way. But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him. He was oppressed and he was afflicted. Yet he did not open his mouth like a lamb that has led to the slaughter, like a sheep that is silent before its shearers.

So he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment, he was taken away. And as for his, his generation who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due, his grave was assigned with wicked men.

Yet he was rich in his death because he had done no violence, nor was there any deceit found in his mouth. But the Lord was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief. If he would render himself as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring. He will prolong his days and the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in his hands. And it goes on. Is that a nation or is that a person?

Obviously it's a person. Yeah, so when you say his offspring, you said that he will see his offspring, correct? That's what it says in verse 10, yes. He will see his offspring. So, did Jesus have offspring?

No, not yet, but there's a yes and a no. We are called the children of God. All who are true Jews are adopted and we're now sons of Abraham. So we are the children of God. We're adopted and Romans 8 talks about that. That's what that's talking about. All right. Now, okay, I got a little bit more to add to it, just a little bit. And, um, so, and well, if you read before that, you know, God says that Israel is my servant.

Yes. So wouldn't that be considered the suffering servant Israel? Well, when it says us, my servant will justify the many and that's in verse 11. Now, when you want to go the word servant earlier than that, it's in verse 52, I mean, chapter 52 verse 13, behold, my servant will prosper. He will be high lifted up and greatly exalted, just as many were astonished at you, my people. So his appearance was marred more than any man and his form more than the sons of men.

Thus, he will sprinkle many nations. Okay. That does not look like a nation that's being spoken of. Okay. Okay.

All right. And incidentally, what was the Ethiopian eunuch reading? He was reading Isaiah 53 in Acts chapter eight. And so he wants to get baptized, but there is no chapter break. He was reading through as where he was in that area of scripture. But it says right in the last verse of chapter 52, he will sprinkle many nations.

Kings will shut their mouths on account of him. And then he's in continues on about the suffering servant. Then he wants to get baptized. Interesting. Gotcha. Yeah.

All right. That's a good explanation. I mean, hey, man, you're on your own.

You own your thing. Uh, you know, that's what I like calling, you know, cause I heard different views. One on this side saying that just like you said, uh, that Israel is a suffering servant, didn't people on the other side said that Jesus was a suffering servant. And yeah, it makes a lot of sense how you explain it. Yeah.

It's referring to Jesus, obviously. Okay. It's just not that big a deal.

And those who deny who Christ is, uh, will, uh, then be forced to read the text with other assumptions. That's what people do all the time. Okay. Can I ask you one more quick? There's we got to, we got to break. You want to stay on or you got to stay on? Um, I'll call, I'll call back.

I'll call you brother. Sounds good, man. Good. All right. Thank you folks.

All right. Hey folks, you'd write back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. We'll get a Dennis on the last trumpet after the break. It's Matt Slick live taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. I want to welcome back to the show. Last segment of the hour.

This hour is going by quickly. And if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Let's get to Dennis from Ohio.

Dennis. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey Matt. Hi. Thank you. How you doing?

Oh, muy capado. Very busy. Okay. Hey, uh, I've got a question for you. I've been studying the old Testament more. I'm sort of a new Testament person and somehow I got this idea.

There are two separate Bibles, but I'm realizing it's all one and the same. Right. Anyways, in the book of Exodus, and I was comparing the book of Exodus to like the book of revelation, as far as the plagues and the Pharaoh and the Passover and the slaves being freed and having to suffer through the plagues.

And you know, they're out in the desert, they cross the sea, the sea closes and destroys the evil Egyptian army. So I was just wondering that trumpet in first Corinthians 1552, it talks about at the last trumpet, could that be the same last trumpet as the seventh trumpet of the trumpet judgments and in the book of revelation, I believe it's in the revelation 11 around verse 15. Yes. Yep.

I would absolutely agree with you. It is the last trumpet because it talks about seven trumpets. Well, the last trumpet occurs, right? And at the last trumpet, that's when the resurrection occurs in first Corinthians 15. And, yeah, that's when the rapture occurs. The rapture and the resurrection are the same trumpet, the last one. Right.

Go ahead. Yeah, that's what I was thinking because I'm a big pre-trib rapture guy. But now that I've been looking at this, there ain't no reason that I think now that we're going to, Christians are going to escape all of the tribulation. I think we're going to be here just as the Jewish slaves were through their 10 plagues. We're going to go through some of this too. I got a lot of friends that say, oh no, we're going to be zapped out of here.

You don't even have to worry about prophecy or anything. And I'm beginning to think, oh, that ain't right. All right, let me run something by you, okay? Now, I think you're doing very well, okay?

And I have a pretty good study on this and I can show it to you on the site. But I think pre-trib rapture is easily defeatable, very easily defeatable. I do. I'm not trying to condemn anybody who holds it, and if you do, that's okay.

You're my brother in Christ, not mocking. I just think it's not a good position to hold. And they think it is, and that's okay.

We disagree. So we know that the rapture occurs at the last trumpet, right? That's what you know.

That's what it says. And then we also know the last trumpet is when we're resurrected, right? Right, so the rapture, which is the gathering of God's people, and the resurrection are both the last trumpet.

Now, check this out. This is what Matthew 24, 29 says through 31. Jesus says, but immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars of the heaven will fall from the sky, the powers of the heavens will be shaken, and the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the sky with great power and glory. And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet, and he will gather together his elect with the four winds from one edge of the sky to the other.

Well, that's the rapture, which is the last trumpet, which Jesus says happens after the tribulation. Now, boy, I'm going to have to be doing some more studying, sir. Oh, here, let me mess you up some more, okay? Can I mess you up some more? Okay, sure, go ahead. Okay, here we go. So now, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left. That's the rapture, right?

I was thinking it was evil people taken. Ah, you were awesome. Give yourself a high five. Good for you. I was, yeah, and I've been, hey, I've been reading Karm a little bit, too, so. Okay, yeah, so Matthew 24, Luke 17, obviously it's the wicked who are taken. Okay, good for you. So now, did you hear about Matthew 13, though?

No, bring it on. All right, this will mess you up even more. So, the tares and the wheat, Matthew 13, starts in verse 24, and he says, you know, the tares are there, the wheat is there, we tear them up, and Jesus says, no, don't do that. Verse 30, allow both to grow together until the harvest. In the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to bring them up. Well, when the first ones gathered are the tares, that's not what we've been hearing.

Yeah. Now, we go down, a few verses later, he interprets the parable. He tells us what it means. The field is the world, and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. The tares are the sons of the evil one, the enemy who sold them is the devil. The harvest is at the end of the age. Is at the end of the age, now the end of the age is something that people just don't study.

This age and the age to come, there's two ages. At the end of the age, and the reapers are angels, so as the tares are gathered and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age, the son of man will send forth his angels, they will gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks. That means the rapture, if you want to call it the rapture, is at the end of the age, right? But wait a minute, it's not the rapture.

It's the wicked who are taken first, before the good are taken. That's what it says. Yeah. Yeah, this really throws the pre-trib rapture stuff on its heels, it really does. Right. To me, it's so eloquently argued about a pre-tribulation rapture, and believe me, and believe me, I believed it for a long time, but now that I'm studying this book about the Old Testament, and how everything in the Old Testament Jesus talked about in the New Testament, and John verified it in the book of Revelation, it's like, whoa, wait a minute, I gotta rethink this stuff.

Yeah, you should rethink it. Now check this out, too. There's two ages, this age and the age to come. At the end of this age is when the wicked are gathered. It's also when the judgment of the wicked occurs. Right. It's also when the elect are gathered, it's when the harvest occurs.

Right. It's the return of Christ, and it's also the time of the rapture, at the end of the age. Yes. Now the last day, the last day is the judgment of the wicked, and the resurrection. Well, if the last day is the judgment of the wicked and the resurrection, and the judgment of the wicked is the end of the age, then the last day is at the end of the age.

It's simple. Yeah. Which is also the day of the Lord, which is when the resurrection occurs, which is Jesus' return, which is the rapture, which, the last trumpet is when the resurrection occurs, and the rapture occurs, and it's after the tribulation, according to what Jesus says. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah, so, yeah, the preacher rapture view is comfortable, and it makes it look like God just loves us, and everything's fine, and he's the blond haired black occasion surfer dude, and he wants a wonderful plan for your life, you know. It's the Americanized, easy peasy gospel message that you asked Jesus to impart. Right.

Amen to that word. Right. It's the biblical one. It's not the biblical. Right. Yes. It makes me want to get serious in my Christianity, because as bad as things are today, it could get a lot worse, and it's hard enough to get by day to day. Now, if things really start hitting the fan, oh, man, that's... Yep.

I got friends who said they would even take the mark of the beast just for the sake of their children, and I'm like, oh, no. No, you don't. Oh, okay. You don't do that. No, you don't.

No, you don't. There's a story I heard, and I'll tell you this story, because we've got nobody waiting, so I read Fox's Book of Martyrs years and years ago, and one particular story stood in my mind. I just couldn't believe what I heard, and because there's children that might be listening, I'm going to ask the parents, you might want to turn the channel, but even still, I'm going to speak of this in a very calm, roundabout way. The Catholics had, they were going around destroying people as the Reformation was occurring. They tied up a family, mom, dad, kids, and one by one, they, I'll just use the word execute, the children, and between each one, they said to the father, are you going to come back to the Catholic Church? And his answer was, each child you execute, you deliver into the hands of my savior.

And they killed him, and I never forgot that. We don't even deny Christ for our children, and it's not a biblical thing. But that's it, because if they die, they're going to heaven, if they're Christians. You do not take the mark of the beast.

Anybody who takes the mark of the beast on purpose, even to save their children, is demonstrating they're not true Christians to begin with. Amen, I believe that. I believe in the broad road and the narrow road, and I think that's very relative to today. That narrow road, I don't see a lot of people on it.

They claim to be on it, but I don't believe they are. Yes, because they have a lot of stuff like, ask Jesus into your heart. Jesus has a wonderful plan for your life.

It's like this, an illustration I use. You get up to your air-conditioned home, to your electric clock, and you put on your Sunday best. You're going to go to church, and you walk downstairs, and you hit the button for your instant coffee, and you nuke something quickly for food, and then you remote control TV while you're getting ready, then you get in your air-conditioned car, GPS-driven vehicle, and guided that is. You go to a nice church where people are dressed really nicely, and a nice pamphlet and bulletins given to you, nice music, nice chairs, nice message.

Then you go out to eat. That's Christianity to a lot of people, and none of this thing is not true Christians. They can't do that, of course they can, but this kind of stuff makes us weak, and we're in persecution. People aren't going to know what to do, because you mean the preacher of rapture isn't true? I put all my faith and hope in it, instead of Jesus. That kind of thing is what I'm going to do.

This rabbi I was reading was saying that exactly. It's weakened us, and made us think that, oh, it's no problem, we'll just escape everything and everything will be cool, and it really opened my eyes. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. All right, brother.

God bless. Okay. Okay. Bye-bye.

All right. One of the guys we support on Karm, his name is Moses, and he's in an African country, and let me just say that he's living for the Lord, he's going out to villages to preach and teach the gospel. He's had to flee his home after Muslim gunmen came to kill him and his family, and he had to go into hiding. He goes into villages and areas before and after Muslims are there killing villagers. There's a fatwa against him by the Muslims. He's spreading information against Islam and preaching and teaching the gospel. And sometimes on our weekly meetings, he shows up and sometimes he doesn't, because he might be in hiding. This is a Christian man who is risking his life. He has sent me videos of people being killed, I mean live videos, well, it's recorded, of them actually being killed.

He sent it to me. That's what's happening here. News media doesn't talk about it. That's Christianity there, and the people who meet in huts are risking their lives in this country a lot of times. And oh, no, Jesus has a wonderful plan for your life.

If you just ask him in your heart, everything will be fine. That's Americanized gospel. It's not the biblical one, okay, it's not the biblical one. There's the music. May the Lord bless you, and I ask that you hear the words of truth when it's spoken, whenever it's spoken in this show, if it comports with scripture, which you should be checking.

You don't want to trust a guy named Slick on the radio. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone. Another program powered by the Truth Network.