This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not Forgot. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. If not for God with Mike Zwick, is Islam the religion of peace?
Do we just need to embrace Islam? You know, I hear Christians say that, well, Islam is just another form of Christianity because they believe in Jesus too.
Well, I've got Daniel Merrill here from Cross Exchange. They do a ministry over at Elon University, and he is going to answer some of those questions for us today. Welcome to the show, Daniel. Thank you, Mike. You're very welcome.
So, you said you had a quote to begin with. Yes, a quote that I think will really frame our discussion quite well. It's by Winston Churchill. He wrote it in 1899. He says, The fact that the Muhammadan law, Islamic law, the fact that in Muhammadan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Thousands became the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith. All know how to die, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stranger no stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being in a state of decline, Mohammedism, or Islam, is a militant and proselytizing faith. Yeah.
Well, there's a lot in that quote, Daniel. You know, one of the verses that I was thinking about, and you mentioned this before, is in John chapter 11 in verse 24. It says, Martha said to him, I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, though he may die, he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? She said to him, Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is come into the world. Amen. Yeah, and when we talk about any religion, any religion, whether it's Christianity, whether it's Islam or Judaism, Hinduism, we have to understand internally what they believe about the attributes of their God, what they believe about the essence of truth and their religious text.
And so you began the program in regards to the idea that, well, Muslims, the teachings of Islam, believe in Jesus, and they do, but it's a different Jesus, just like it's a different Jesus of Mormonism or a different Jesus of the LDS, the Jehovah's Witness. All of them claim the title of Jesus, but it's a different Jesus.
So who is that Jesus that they believe in? Yeah, in Islam, there's many different aspects to how they understand the nature of Jesus, or they refer to him as Isa. But they do not see that he is the divine God. They see that he is a good man and a good prophet, but was not God incarnate, God in the flesh. They also, based on their religious texts in the Quran, do not believe that he died on the cross.
They believe that some other person was taken down while still alive and somebody was put in his place. And as an Imam, Islamic leader, told me once when I was engaging with him that the three things that he could never believe in as a Muslim is that Jesus was God, In the doct that he the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and in the teaching that God came to earth as a man and took the place. on our behalf. And those are Critical tenets of the Christian faith. And so, foundationally, when one is talking to a Muslim, They may use similar language about God or Jesus or Mary, but the the God Jesus and Mary and Various other aspects of Islam may have similarities, but those similarities do not minus the differences.
Yeah.
Now, 1 John 4, 3 says that, and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is that spirit of Antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is in the world.
Now, from what I understand, if a Muslim were to refute that, they would say, well, no, we believe that Jesus did come in the flesh. How would you respond to that?
Well, To what you were asking, yes, they believe he came in the flesh, but again, they don't, in them saying that, they're not saying that he came in the flesh as God incarnate, meaning incarnate in the flesh. They deny that, they believe in the teaching of what's taweed, which is basically the oneness or the oneness of God. And so by believing in that, they believe that Allah, or in their case, what they view as the Supreme God, is so far distant and so unable because he is so other than his creation that he could never enter into time and space to communicate with his creation. That is why, which we'll talk about in a moment, he had to send a spiritual being, whatever we'll talk about what that spiritual being might have been, but a spiritual being other than himself to communicate the Quran. We believe in the Bible that God Himself, through His Spirit, through the triune God, the Holy Spirit, communicated to the prophets of old and to the apostles his authoritative word directly, divinely, and authoritatively, and not and.
In Islam, they believe that Allah is so far removed from his creation that he has to send somebody in his place because he is so other than. He cannot come into time and space into flesh because it is, in their view, so filthy.
So filthy.
Now Galatians chapter 1 and verse 6, it says, I marvel that you are turning away so soon from him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel, which is not another, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we are or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you than that we which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: if anyone preaches any other gospel to you, Then that which you have received, let him be accursed. And it's interesting because that's not just how Islam got its start, that's also how Joseph Smith was revealed, the Book of Mormon. But we're not talking about the Book of Mormon.
How did Islam start? Yeah, so to understand any religion, we must understand its foundational text. The foundational text within the religion of Islam is the Quran, which is seen as the divinely inspired word of Allah that was sent down from heaven. And most Muslims will say, though based on historical and academic critique, it is not completely true, that they believe that it is an uncorrupted book sent down directly from heaven from Allah. And given.
Through recitations by an angel to Muhammad.
Now, To understand what Islam teaches and how a Muslim thinks and acts, we also have to understand who Muhammad was.
So to convert to Islam, one has to recite the Shahada, which is there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger. And so that is the, in our way, as Christians thinking, that is our kind of, that is their kind of statement of confession of conversion. And so. And is that all you have to do? That is the, well, it's not all you have to do, but that's kind of the initiation.
Okay. That's what kind of initiates the person into becoming a Muslim. There's obviously the five pillars of Islam and other aspects to the religion, but to initially convert to Islam, you have to say the Shahada. And the reason I bring that up is, number one, it's the book, which is the teachings according to them of Allah, which is the Quran, and the man. The book and the man is the foundations of Islam.
The man is Muhammad. And to understand the thinking and the The way of interpretation and life of any Muslim is to understand what they believe regarding Muhammad. And that is found in the Hadith, which is basically the sayings and the acts of Muhammad, and then the Sirah, which is the biography of Muhammad.
So the foundation of Islam is the Quran, the Hadith, and the Sirah.
Now, As a parallel to those that are out there listening, that may be Catholic, I don't mean this in a negative way, but I'm using it for illustrative purposes. Similar to how the Roman Catholic sees the nature of the papacy and papal declarations and Catholic dogma regarding interpretation of beliefs, the tafsir, which is the authoritative commentary by Islamic Imams and scholars over the centuries, they see that as authoritative for interpretation of what the Quran or the life of Muhammad says.
So, understanding that it's seen as a holistic unity of the book, meaning the Quran, and the man, the life, teachings, and sayings of Muhammad, because in the Quran it says to basically, I'm some. Summarizing it, but to be a good Muslim is to follow in the way of Muhammad. And so to understand Islam is to understand what the Quran says, but also. understand what Muhammad said, did, and what ultimately his influence had on the world.
Well, as we know, and you preach, you're an apologist and you preach to the students over at Elon University. The Holy Bible, which is what we base our belief on, is evidence-based. And it's not just backed by evidence of people who believe. It's also backed by unbelievers as well. Does the Quran have that same evidence, belief, evidence as the Holy Bible does as well?
It does not.
So one of the things that is quite controversial for those who want to use what I'm about to say as engaging with Muslims, it is quite controversial to the Muslim ear to say these things.
So I say that as an upfront. But there are many things within the Quran that one would say are adaptions and corruptions of biblical text and adaptions and corruptions of other non-Christian texts.
So to understand. The historicity of the Bible is to understand its trustworthiness and its accuracy, both internally and externally. And when you look internally within the Quran and compare it externally within the history of other texts and culture, we see that even within the Quran, it quotes. Saying that it's true, a passage that's regarding Jesus, but it's not found within any historic eyewitness accounts. And even Bart Ehrman, who is now emeritus at UNC Chapel Hill, an atheist New Testament scholar, even will say that this is not something that is regarding the life of Jesus.
The Quran quotes from the book of the.
Well, this is what I was going to ask you while you were thinking about that. That there is evidence, not just in the Bible, but from other sources as well, that Jesus did, in fact, die on the cross. But Muslims don't believe that. Is that right? Sure, but if I could, I would jump back.
I just had a momentary pause in my thought there.
So there's what's known as the infancy gospel. And I bring this up because it may seem tangential to what we're talking about, but I bring this up because the infancy gospel of Thomas is this ancient text, but it's ancient insofar as it. Only goes back to 100 to 200 years after the life of Jesus. And it claims that Jesus breathed into, created these clay birds, breathed into them, and they became living birds and flew away.
Well, that is something that was not by eyewitness accounts. That was written by, they're a type of seen as part of a Gnostic text. And so within the Quran, it claims these things as historically accurate truth claims. But even the most secular historian who does not believe in the divine inspiration of scripture will testify that this has no historical bearing on who Jesus was. And so I just wanted to make mention of that before we moved on to the next question.
When we're talking about the Quran itself, Whether we're looking at the New Testament or Old Testament or at any other ancient religion, seeing what it says both internally and how it relates to the external culture around it. Yeah, and so going back to what I was saying, and I got that, but going back to what I was saying before, is that Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. And there is historical evidence for that. I believe even people who are not Christians believe that. Yes, correct.
So again, Bart Erman, in mentioning him, I use him because he's fairly well known, but even within the popular culture, he will testify and say that there was a first century Judean man attributed to the Judeo-Palestinians Palestine area, and that there was a particular person within first century Greco-Roman history that was crucified.
Now, he may not go as far as to say he rose from the dead because he's not a believer. I believe there's historical evidence to that, that he did. But yes, the Quran explicitly denies that Jesus. Died on the cross, and they explicitly say that he was taken down before he breathed his last breath, and someone was put in his place. And they also, obviously, if they deny that he died on the cross, they also deny the resurrection.
Yes, that is true. They deny the resurrection.
Now, Something that's important when we're talking about the crucifixion and resurrection, their understanding of the nature of. forgiveness or justification. And those aspects as we might think of in its relationship to the cross. Their understanding is a very works-based system.
Now, they may not necessarily say that to you, but when you listen to them, it's very much based on. What they can do in this earth to see if Allah will give them forgiveness in the next. And basically, it comes down to. Did their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds enough that Allah will basically put enough merit on their account in the afterlife to balance out the scales? And so, when we're talking about does a Muslim believe in the death of Christ or not and on the cross, ultimately it comes down to not just a historical claim, which is obviously about truth claims, but also about ultimately their salvation and how.
How they understand the nature of reconciliation with God, their creator. Yeah, and it says in 1 Corinthians 15, 12 through 19, it says, But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless, and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that raised Christ from the dead.
But he did not raise him if, in fact, the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile. You are still in your sins.
So that tells me unequivocally that Muslims are not Christians. That is true, yes. And so one of the things that... May come up in people's minds. There's this phrase that I didn't even mention to you, Mike, that I would mention, but this idea of the Abrahamic faiths.
So. That is a misnomer, if you will, a misleading statement.
So we will. The Jewish and Christian faith do share the Tanakh or the Old Testament and the belief in Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as the forefathers of our faith. within Islam They have Certain prophets that they believe came before Muhammad, and Muhammad is the final prophet. And they will say that Abraham, David, they will use the name Arabic terms like Dawid for David. But.
Their understanding of the Abrahamic faiths is very different because actually the phrase Abrahamic faiths actually is a for the viewers who or listeners who may not know what this means, a polemic, meaning a internal critique of another religion. It uses uh the the term Abrahamic faith as actually an attack on Ju uh on the Old Testament and the New Testament of Christ cr the of the Jewish and Christian scriptures. Because They Their understanding of the nature of Abraham and David is very different than ours, using the same language but meaning in different ways.
Okay, and going to the next part. You know, a lot of people, a lot of immigrants, when they came in, probably our great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents or whatever it was, when they came to Ellis Island, the late 1800s, early 1900s, they learned to assimilate into American society. And that's why we've heard of the expression of the melting pot, where people come in and they assimilate and they're able to work together. But Islam does not work like that. Correct.
I do want to say at the beginning, as listeners continue to listen to us, the average Muslim is a human, just like the average Christian is a human. And so there is cultural Christians, there is also cultural Muslims.
So everything that the Quran or the Hadith and Sirah, which is the biography and sayings and life of Muhammad, that they are supposed to follow, they may not necessarily always. knowingly believe or say or do exactly as the the religion itself proclaims it as truth.
So, but yes, to what you were saying, Islam by nature is not a religion that assimilates to the dominant culture.
Now, Christianity, in a way, too. May not, some people may hear, well, doesn't Christianity call us to transform the culture? And it does, but it's transforming the culture by means of the gospel, by people coming to the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and it's a transformation in their own lives. And how one dresses, how one critiques another religion, the idea of free speech is a Christian idea. It's came through the Western democratic process of the Christian idea of the liberty of conscience.
And so when it comes to The id the anti-assimilation of Islam, a few examples of that.
So, The view the listeners may not be familiar with the term haram or That there is a certain term in Islam that means food or actions that are seen as not that is not worthy, that is blasphemous, that is seen as anti-Islam, and there is things that are seen as good and as for Islam. And so there is things that you will see on food that kind of like kosher, that you will see that. The Islamic way of preparing meat or preparing various things. And so there is certain laws that are being pushed into practice that causes the laws to change so that they have to slaughter meat in a certain way.
So it gives praise to Allah. There's certain rules and regulations in how they slaughter meat specifically in observance to the Islamic religion. But another of those is this idea of Islamophobia.
So I wanted to, that's one of the things I wanted to touch on if you wanted to speak to that. Sure. I actually just recently made a post on Facebook. I guess you're not on Facebook. And it was a picture of a Muslim woman and she said, and it said, hates Christians, hates Jews, won't eat pork, won't tolerate you having any alcohol.
And it goes down all of these lists. But at the end, it says, but calls you Islamophobic.
So go ahead. Yeah, so to this. Over the years, there has been a systematic focus of how we transforming the Western mindset. On the nature of the religion of Islam.
So the term Islamophobia phobia means a basically a Uh A unnatural fear, something that is a fear of something that is not natural.
So Islamophobia, by definition, is not. Um saying that one uh f uh Fears Islam because of certain tenets that they see as dangerous, but as irrational. And so, whether that be other things, it's an irrational fear.
Now, In the UK as well as in the US, there is many different things that are going on. In the countries that basically limit the ability to critique the religion. And so there is. times where We can have a people can have ability to critique the teachings of Christ or the teachings of the Church, but when it comes to critiquing the religion of Islam, they back away. And so as Mike had mentioned this previously and something else that he and I did together regarding Richard Dawkins.
Now Richard Dawkins is an atheist, but he talked about how he wants that he that he is he would uh refer to himself as a cultural Christian. And the reason he said that was because of the Islamization Of the European continent, specifically in his home country of England, and the nature of the influence that Sharia, which is Islamic law, and the two-tiered system that we find now in different areas of the UK, and its inability to Be in harmony and unity with the Western legal practices of English common law, which was based, English common law is based on Judeo-Christian ethics, principles, and ultimately the teachings of Christ. Yeah, so they're not willing and they don't want to assimilate into American culture. And you hear a lot of people saying about how they want to implement Sharia law, not only in other countries, but in America as well. Yes, that is correct.
I mean, as one aspect of that, Dearborn, Michigan, which some of the listeners may be familiar with, it is increasingly become almost purely an Islamic town. And they are very open about their endorsement of Sharia and endorsement of Islamic teachings of Muhammad that are contrary to any type of Christian ethic, much less a secular ethic.
So we think about the idea of what some people might call multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is this idea that all cultures are worthy of appreciation and of celebration, but ultimately the word culture comes from the word cultus, meaning worship. And so what we do, what we say, and believe ultimately affects the world around us, the laws we make, the lifestyles we live. And when you see and go into Dearborn, you will see that most of the stores, the signage is written in Arabic. There are calls to prayer on the minorites that are Islamic prayers.
They do that several times a day, and you will hear that throughout the day and night. And that is in the U.S. And the secular person might say, well, I want religion and any type of religion out of my life on an average day.
Well, ultimately, one religion is going, one worldview, one ethic, one culture is going to be the culture that dominates. And for myself, as a Christian, even for the secularist, the aspect of free speech is a Christian ideal. It's not a secular ideal. It is not an Islamic ideal. It's a Christian ideal because Christ calls us to believe in truth.
And when truth conflicts with culture is to call that out. And free speech is a Christian belief system. It is. And so, in short, Islam is not the religion of peace. I looked something up before the top 20.
terrorist organizations in the world. Guess what they all have in common? Is long. Is long. And so we have run out of time on this show, but we're going to have you back for another show.
And so if somebody wants to check you out, they can go to crossxchange.org. And you guys are doing a great work over helping the students at Elon University discover Christ. And Daniel Merrill, I want to thank you for coming on. Thank you, Mike. All right.
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