This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not Forgot. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. All right, this is If Not For God with Mike Zwick.
I've got my good friend Fred Hage back in the studio today, and I want to ask you a question. Do you have an attitude of gratitude? Or does your attitude stink? I mean, you know what? I heard a guy one time, his name was Les Brown, and he said, if you want to be negative, He said, That's not really something that you have to work on.
He said, You just be yourself. He said, The natural thing for us to do is to be negative because, Fred, there's so much negativity in the world, there's so much stuff that wants to bring us down. He said, But if you want to have a positive attitude that will change your life and will help other people as well, he said, You've got to work on it. And one of my favorite quotes, I love this, is a guy named Chuck Swindall. Are you familiar with Chuck Swindall, Fred?
I am. You are. And this is what he says: He says, The longer that I live, He says, the more that I realize the impact of attitude on life, he says, attitude to me is more important than facts. It is more important than the past. Than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think, say, or do.
He says it is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill. He says it will make or break a company, a church, a home. He said, The remarkable thing is that we have a choice every day regarding the attitude that we embrace for that day. We cannot change our past, we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot We cannot change the inevitable.
He says, The only thing that we can do is play the one string that we have, and that is our attitude. He says, I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. And he says, And so it is with you. We are in charge of our attitudes. And Fred, you kind of had a funny story that you reminded me of where you said you had a flat tire or something broke down.
Mike, on Thursday afternoon, I was mowing grass. And all of a sudden, my tractor was not more than level, and I looked down and I had a flat tire.
So it was late. I put it in the barn and I earmarked that repair for Saturday morning. Saturday morning came. I went to a prayer breakfast. As soon as I got out, I got on that flat tire.
I got it off and then I didn't have the right size valve stem to go in it. I had to run to town to get the valve stem, come back about time for lunch. After lunch I went back, put that valve stem in and could not get that tire blowed up. It just wouldn't work. I got so desperate, I went home, got my wife to come out there and hold it and try to help me.
Would not fit my tire machine, just wasn't working.
So finally, about three o'clock, I said, That's it. I'm going to throw in the towel. Renee said, I'm going to the office. I've got a couple bills I've got to pay. We'll finish and go home.
About 10 minutes later, I just got my floor cleaned up. She said, You need to come up here. There's some guys up here with a truck. They're pulling a trailer, and the trailer don't have any wheels on it.
So I walked over to get my air tank. When I did, she said, No, you don't need the air tank. The trailer don't have any wheels. She said, just go look and you'll see. I walked up there, and these guys had an old Dodge truck.
They had a really nice, almost new tandem axle trailer. On the trailer they had a a 601 Ford Workmaster tractor that weighs almost two tons. And I guess somewhere they had come to my lot. To my parking lot from Knoxville, that God had brought them out of the way. Um All the tires were ground off.
The wheels were ground off. All was left was about that much of a wheel and a lug stud. The tractor looked like it was going to fall off of the trailer.
So all of a sudden it hit me That God had sent them there from Knoxville for the express purpose for me to tell them about Jesus. When I realized that, I couldn't fix the trailer. That was impossible. I ran and got some testaments that I keep on my desk, Mike. I picked up three of those Testaments, I went back and I gave the first guy one of these little testaments and I said, Can I get you to read a few verses for me?
He said no, and he ran and hid in the truck. I went to the second guy. I said, Can I get you to read a few verses here for me? He said, No. I said, Will you read them before you go to bed tonight?
He said, Yes. I went to the young man that was driving the truck and I said, Can I get you to read a few verses? And he said, Where do I start reading? That's it. And all of a sudden, he was reading.
Mike, I was able to lead him to Christ. And by that time, it was almost five o'clock. And Monday morning, I took my tire to the tire shop, and in 15 minutes and $5, I had my tire fixed. And I realized. Did God had a plan and a purpose in all that chaos?
Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I love, Fred, is this, is in 1 Kings 19, 11 through 13. It says, and he said, go forth and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains and break in pieces and rocks.
And it says, before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind, and after the wind, an earthquake. It says, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake, a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire, a still small voice. And it was so when Elijah heard it that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entering of the cave.
And behold, there came a voice unto him and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? A lot of times, Fred, I think we're looking at God to yell at us and scream at us. And we think, well, God's just, he's going to whack us over the head. But a lot of times, it's in that still small voice. And so we talked about this a lot.
People say, I want to pray and I want to make supplications before the Lord. Lord. And we need to ask the Lord for stuff. We need to ask the Lord for, Lord, I'm praying for somebody. I'm, Lord, I want you to do this.
I want you to do that. And that's awesome. Oh, yeah. The Bible says that He hears our prayers. And I think it's in the book of Revelation.
It says they're stored up in bowls where he keeps, He doesn't lose them or anything like that. But you know what else we have to do, Fred? Is we also have to take time and we have to listen to the Lord. We, you know, we were at our church. I go to Just Like Jesus Ministries over in Burlington, North Carolina.
And this past Sunday, the pastor spent some time with me and he said, Mike, he said, I'm feeling in my spirit that the Lord is telling you you need a time of Sabbath. You need to take a time of rest. He said, you're constantly out there. You're doing this. You're doing that.
And Fred, people hear about you and they see you in your book or read in your book that you're going out and sharing the gospel. But what is your prayer life like? Uh Mike, I try to spend about an hour in prayer each morning. Uh if I have to cut that short, I just don't feel good. I don't feel prepared.
It leaves me feeling kind of empty. That's just something that I need as part of my daily routine each day. And that's a discipline that God honors, Mike. You know, I think sometimes we relegate that to the back burner and give it a second or third priority. You know, that ought to be our first priority.
Yeah, there's a guy named T. Russell Hunter, and I don't know if you know who this guy is, but he works with the abolitionist movement and not slavery, anything like that, but they want to abolish abortion. They want to get rid of abortion in our country. But what he does is he stands out with signs and he tells people, he says, look, this is murder. This is not right.
It's an abomination before the Lord. And he's actually had people spit on him. He had a guy throw paint on him. Was that upset? And so, yes, we can do everything.
that we're going to do.
Sometimes we're going to get some kickback.
Sometimes we're going to get some opposition and all of that. But I like what he said. He said, I'm out there. And he goes out there and he tries to tell people about Jesus too. He says, we must act.
In other words, Fred, you've got to go out there. He said, and you've got to share the gospel. You've got to do all this other stuff. He says, we must act. He says, but we also must pray.
And I think I heard what you said before. You said that's where the power comes from. Is that right? The prayer? Power and prayer?
Power and prayer and power in the word of God. Right here's where the power is. 1 Corinthians 1 chapter 1 verse 18. Mike, I believe, is the verse that says, the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. We've got to understand that's where the power is, and that's where we need to get our lost sinner reading these salvation verses.
I like the Little Testament because they're laid out real. Neatly and precisely in the back cover. Easy to get to, quick to get to. And um That's what I use for my scripture source. You can use your phone.
You can use a scratch piece of paper. You can use the book. You can use whatever works for you. You can use your phone, whatever. But the power's in the word of God.
That's what we've got to understand. Yeah, that's it. And so I heard a guy one time, he said, Mike, he says, you can't sell a dream if you're living a nightmare.
So, yes, there's going to be times where you share, you can't sell a dream if you're living a nightmare. But he says, yes, there's times you meet people and you share the gospel with them, you never see them again. There's also other people that you meet, whether it's in church or through work or whatever, and you share the gospel with them and they're going to see you all the time. And if they see that you're just as miserable and depressed and sad and messed up as the world is, why would they want to follow the Jesus that you're following? Jesus doesn't even seem to help you.
They don't want to follow that person. Mike, one of the for me, one of the most important things is when I share my faith, to wear a smile. Don't go out there looking like you're living in defeat like them. They want to see somebody that's living the joy, that's living the dream. That's right.
Who has a peace, a hope, a joy, and a comfort that the Word of God says passes all understanding. That's what they're looking for. They want to see it in me and you. Yeah, that's true. The Bible says that if anybody asks you for a hope or the reason that you have within you, always be willing to give an answer for that reason.
And I heard a pastor one time say, he said, He said, The problem is, he says, is for many of us, we're talking about answering questions that nobody's asking.
Now, you and I have talked about this before. You know, we don't do evangelism by lifestyle evangelism. In other words, people just see the way that, hey, we're living a good life and we don't even need to say anything to them. I think probably one of the most overused and I think the wrong sayings that I've heard is: well, preach the gospel constantly, use words when necessary. I don't see that in the Bible.
Well, I don't believe with either one of those theories, Mike. None whatsoever. They're looking for the message of the cross. Mike, Um If we as God's people Are not sharing our faith. We're not experiencing the joy that God intends for us.
If we're not sharing our faith and seeing new believers come to Christ, we're not experiencing that joy that God has intended for us. Another thing, Mike, 1 Peter 3:15 says, But in your heart, sanctify the Lord Jesus and be ready always to give an account to every man who asks a reason for the hope that abides in you. Yeah. We got to be prepared. We've got to be prepared.
And one of the, to me, like you said, the first thing we do is we've got to read our Bible and pray. You know, I found out that there are cities that run by a number of zeros and ones. That's something with the computers where everything that they do, it's run by zeros and ones. And for Christians, our zeros and ones are prayer and the word. And so, in order for us to be able to share the gospel, because yes, sometimes you can just go over the simple gospel, but sometimes as I get to know people and I do lifestyle evangelism, because there's both, I run into people who will ask me questions.
And if I can't answer, now, first of all, there's some questions that they have that I don't know the answers to. The Bible even says that now we see through a glass darkly, then we shall know fully just as we are fully known.
So we don't have all of the answers, but it's a problem for me is if you're talking to somebody, and if you can't answer any of their questions, We've got to study. We've got to learn the word of God. And so, you know, I think you said you read some books on evangelism when you first started. Mike, I read some books on evangelism. I got trained under.
Evangelism Explosion. And I'll be quite honest with you, Mike. That's not my favorite. That book, I think, is slightly weak on personal witnessing and evangelism. It's really strong on church growth.
It will walk you through the step of sharing your faith, getting people in, getting them tracked, getting them assimilated, and all that kind of stuff. God calls me to the. You remember the Good Samaritan? Everybody else passed that. Poor beaten guy in the road.
They all passed by way on the other side. But that Samaritan came and he came and ministered to the guy. I believe that guy was laying in the ditch and in the weeds. And somehow that's where God calls me. I love going into dark spiritual environments.
Well, you told me one time you said the darker the environment, the more the success. Oh, that's true.
Well, generally speaking, and I talk about this in the book, the average person has to hear the message of the cross 6.7 times. 7.6 times, Mike.
So we're only going to witness that decision about 13%. One is a factor of 7.6% is 13%.
So 13% is about every. But when you go into dark spiritual environments, those percentages creep up. 16%, 18, sometimes 20%. Because they're looking for truth. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, if, if, you know, one of the hardest people, not always, and there's always an exception to every rule, but sometimes the hardest person to reach is the person who I've talked to about Jesus. And they say, well, I've got a good life. I've got a lot of money. I'm successful.
I'm happy and whatever.
Now, there's an answer for that. You could talk about what, what about eternity? But it seems to me that sometimes the people who are in the darkest spots, they see the need. They're not holding on to their money. They're not holding on to all this other stuff.
They're looking for a purpose. And by the way, Fred, it's not just them who is looking for a purpose. I believe everybody is looking for a purpose. They. Good.
The down and out are looking for a purpose, and the up and out are looking for a purpose, too, brother. There's a lot of people in this world that had got all that stuff that you're talking about. The rich young ruler, he wasn't willing to separate himself from his. From his wealth and submit to the lordship of Christ. He was sincere.
Jesus was very open and honest with him and welcomed him in. But he was not willing to sacrifice his wealth and his worldly possessions to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I did. He walked away. I think he's the only person in scripture that the word of God says he walked away sorrowful.
Yeah, and you know, but he didn't have to. He could have just said, Hey, this world is not my home. And I tell you what, I mean, how much time, and it's important. Let me tell you this: you want to be successful in business. I know I work my hardest.
The Bible says, and I quoted it before: Colossians 3:23, whatsoever you do, work as to the Lord and not unto men. And so, we all want to have nice stuff, we all want to do good things. But I tell you what, in my life, Fred, the times where I have been the most miserable and the most depressed is when I was the most focused on myself. The times where I have been the happiest in my own life is where I've been focused on serving and helping others. And I tell you what, you talk about serving and helping others.
The greatest way that you can do that is share the good news of Jesus Christ. Amen, brother. Amen. It's up to us as God's people. If we don't do it, nobody's going to do it for us.
Satan's going to make sure of that. They're looking for truth, and most people are going to search until they find some semblance of truth. And if we don't give them the truth, then They're going to search and find something that's not going to be fulfilling for them.
So they're looking for love in all the wrong places, as the psalm goes. And, you know, one of the things that I was thinking about as we were talking about this, I'm reminded of a story of Charles Blondin. Have you ever heard of him? I have. He was a tightrope walker.
Do you know the story? I'm not sure which one. He was a tightrope walker back in the 1800s, and he came to the United States. And when he came to the United States, he would walk across back and forth across Niagara Falls. And so, what he would do is he would walk on this tightrope, but he didn't just do that.
He would make an omelette. He would eat an omelette while sitting on the tightrope or while standing on the tightrope. And at one point, he actually. Pushed a wheelbarrow across Niagara Falls on this tightrope. And one day, before he did any of this stuff, he sat there and he had a huge crowd because they always wanted to see what he did.
And he said, Do you believe that I could walk across Niagara Falls on this tightrope? And they said, Yes, you're Charles Blondin. You could do anything. He said, Okay. He says, Do you believe that I could sit down and eat breakfast while I'm on the middle of this tightrope?
They said, Yes, you're Charles Blondin. You could do anything. He says, Do you think that I could push a wheelbarrow across this thing? Yes, you're Charles Blondin. You could do anything.
Do you think I could do it with a person inside? They said, Yes, you're Charles Blondin. You could do anything. He says, Okay, I need a volunteer to get inside while I push it across. All of a sudden the place got silent, except for one man.
And it was his manager. And he pushed the guy across both ways, and he was fine. And it kind of reminds us, kind of reminds me, Fred, that as witnesses of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and as we go share the gospel, that there are many who are called. But there are few who are chosen. There are many who Jesus calls to do this, but there's very few who will go out and do what you and I are doing, sharing the gospel on the streets.
And so, I wonder if we're not doing the show for any other reason, I wonder if there's that one person out there who's listening who says, I know I need to do this, but I just want to get in. I want to start doing it. The first thing that I would do is pray, ask the Lord to help and help you get around other people who do it. Read your Bible, but also I would pick up this book, Give Them Jesus by Fred Hagee, H-E-G-E, and you go through step by step exactly how to do it.
Now, once they do that, Would you recommend them maybe get with a group of people who are sharing the gospel, or what would you recommend?
Well, that's a good idea, Mike. That's a real good idea. But the first thing I would do is start praying. I challenge a lot of new people who are witnesses for Christ. Pray for two people.
One, pray for somebody that you know is spiritually lost. That you know is spiritually ill, pray for that person for an opportunity to share the gospel. And then pray for somebody that you have no idea who that person is, that God's going to open that door and give you the opportunity to share your faith. And if you're diligent about praying for that, God will honor that prayer. Yeah, and would you, I mean, would you, a lot of the evangelism that you do, is it people that you know really well or you've gotten to know, or is it mostly what I see you doing, just going out and seeing people on the streets?
Wherever God opens a door. My prayer each day is: God, open a door today for the word that I might declare the mystery of Christ. Does God answer that prayer? Just about every day.
Okay. Just about every day.
Yeah, yeah.
So when you do this, I mean, is it You know, you're how old are you right now, Fred? I'll be 72 shortly. You'll be 72 shortly. Does it you doing this, does it give you a purpose as you get into your older years? Absolutely.
Ah I I look for a new opportunity each day, Mike. I still love going into dark environments. I love to share in the gospel. I love sharing the gospel with people who say, I don't want to hear the gospel. I don't think I need the gospel.
Those are the people that I like to say: Can I share just about four or five verses with you that will give you some meaning and value that perhaps you never experienced or considered? And they'll listen to you. You know, and one of the other things is that, and I've seen this, I saw this with my dad years ago, Fred, is there's sometimes when I try to share the gospel with people and they're polite and they say, I don't want to hear it. But sometimes what I do is I say, let me ask you this before I go. Could you use prayer for anything?
And I met a guy named Rob. Do you know Bob Meist? He goes over to Stu Epperson Wednesday in the Word. And he's, I think I do know him. You do know him.
And what he told me was this: he had a friend who showed up at our Bible study, and the guy said this: He said, if you could ask God. To answer one prayer for you today, what would you ask them for?
Now, if I just ask somebody, I say, Do you need prayer? They may say yes, they may say no. Even the people who won't listen to my gospel presentation, if I ask them if they need prayer, they're more likely. But if I asked him that other question. Then I'm getting specific.
It's not just some general thing. If you could ask God to answer one prayer for you today, what would you ask Him for? And He said He would have people. Who wouldn't listen to him about the gospel, but he would pray for them and their prayer would be answered. And after their prayer would be answered, he would go and share the gospel with them and they would listen.
I've had people, Fred, who didn't want to hear about Jesus. And my dad was this way. He said, I don't want to hear about Jesus. And I said, Do you want me to pray for you? He said, but you can pray for me.
And then a lot of times, after I pray for that person who didn't want to hear about Jesus, then I'll ask him again. If I can share Jesus, and a lot of times they'll say yes. Mike, when I'm sharing my faith, My single focus is Sensing, trying to detect a presence of the Holy Spirit. That's step two for me. And I've got some methodology laid out in chapter two for that and some different options.
Give them Jesus. Give them Jesus by Fred Hagee is the book. Give them Jesus. Go ahead. And when you apply the spiritual thermometer.
Or either the acid question, and can find a presence of the Holy Spirit there, and you will find it, or you won't find it, or you'll find it in some degree. But when you do find it, you go straight to the scriptures, Mike, and I'm telling you, it is so reliable. When you find that presence of the Holy Spirit, they are generally willing to listen. They're looking for that 100% assurance. That they know that they're going to spend their eternity in the kingdom of heaven when their last day and breath is exhausted here on this earth.
Well, you know, Fred, and as we close this out again, one of the things that I was thinking about is this. There's a lot of uncertainties in life. You mess with the stock market. I played around with it too. Over time, it's gone up really well, but there are times where it tanks.
You know, People have been married to somebody for 20, 30, 40 years, and all of a sudden that person gets up and decides to leave.
So they think they have security in their marriage. They think they have security with their money. I've had people who've had a business that has been thriving their whole life, and then something changes in the business atmosphere or in the market, and they lose that job. That they've always had. I tell you what, Fred, there's a lot of uncertainties in life.
It's nice to have the certainty of my salvation. How about you? 1 John 5, verse 13 says, These things I write to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. That you may know means 100% guaranteed. 100%.
Because if it's not guaranteed, if you can't know that you're going to heaven when you die, why would Jesus have died on the cross? Wouldn't be worth it. If it was up to me, if it was up to me to be a really great person, I can't ever do it.
Now, when you're a Christian, you do turn from your sin. You don't live the same way that you lived before. And that's obviously a given. But at the same time, there is a change that happens in you in your life. But it's not me that made the change.
It was the Holy Spirit, Fred, once I gave my life to Jesus that convicted me, said, Mike, this ain't right. You don't need to be doing this. You don't need to be drinking the way you were drinking. You don't need to be sleeping around with women. Whatever it is.
And it could be gossip. It could be whatever. I want to live a holy life, not because I'm trying to earn my way into heaven, but because of the grace that the Lord Jesus Christ has given me. And Fred, one more time, show us the book. Give them Jesus.
Give them Jesus, the only soul winner's handbook you will ever need. Thanks again for coming on today, Fred. Have a great day. Thank you, Mike. God bless you, brother.
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